D1 Schools are seriously considering reclassifying out of D1 | Matt Brown

https://twitter.com/mattbrownep/stat...93506747748672

Ahh yes, the result of coercion and manipulation. Some will frame it as the residual effects of "unintended consequences" but we know better than that as thinning the herd has long been an inexact science. Thus easily detectable...

Lest we not forget, the landscape of D1 athletics nearly forced Lafayette down to D3 at the turn of the 21st century. Others have faced, and made the requisite decision to drop down; West Chester, Hartford, Wayne State (I think?) among others. Lafayette remained....

From a PL standpoint. I don't see anyone bailing. Loyola would be the only candidate imo but without football, situational variables make it easier to find a path to the status quo. Generally speaking, and despite evolution taking its course, the Patriot League and Ivy League will ensure their presence is felt....

My first post in a while given the lunacy that some of the offseason discussion dissolves into. I'm interested to see where this heads...xrotatehx

Directly from Matt Brown himself....

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So, a few bits of clarity here:

1) The rationale and situation for every school is different. For some of the schools my industry people raised to me this week, the thought process around potentially reclassifying has little to do with the athletic department itself, and everything to do with budget cuts, generally. For other schools, the House settlement and increased cost structure of D1 athletics is forcing some difficult conversations. For at least one school, Trump/DOE/NIH budget cuts may be the shove off the D1 bridge. There isn't a one-size-fits-all situation here.

2) I decided not to mention the specific schools because some of them (and their peers) are still playing meaningful basketball games, and I don't want to blow up anyone's spot if the school holds the meetings and decides to stick around. That being said, St. Francis Brooklyn decided to pull the plug on athletics in March, right around when FDU beat Purdue, if I remember correctly. If decisions are made, schools are going to look to pull the band-aid quickly.

3) I have not heard directly from any industry person that I really trust that any *FBS* schools are considering getting out of D1 sports. The bulk of the schools I've heard from, but by no means exclusively, are in the Northeast. I imagine many of you could probably guess at least some of the schools...I haven't heard any names that like, deeply shocked me or anything.

4) Part of the reason I tweeted this, beyond trying to present a counternarrative to the "everybody is opting into House" stuff, is that sometimes posting a little bit of the story pushes folks to leak me other stuff...or at least, clarifying information.

There will be AD and presidential meetings this week and next to discuss some of these school-specific situations. As I get more concrete information, including any on-the-record denials, I will share it.

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https://csnbbs.com/thread-1007768.html

Only schools I can think of that did it in the last 30 years or so that actually did it:

Hartford - dropped to D3 in 2021
St. Francis of Brooklyn - dropped athletics after 22-23 season
Northeastern Illinois - dropped athletics in the late 1990's
Birmingham-Southern - dropped to D3 in the early 2000's; closed its doors last summer but was a captivating sports story where the baseball team made the CWS AFTER the school had officially ceased operations and the coaches/staff were working for free
Morris Brown - dropped athletics in the early 2000's, school had some major money laundering issues but I think still exists as a university
Savannah State - dropped to D2 about 5 years ago
Winston-Salem State - moved up to DI in mid-2000's and joined the MEAC but dropped back down to D2 within 5 years
U. of New Orleans - dropped to D3 in the wake of Hurricane Katrina but moved back up to DI within few years. I actually went to a UNO-LSU baseball game in New Orleans in spring 2009.

Wayne State had DI hockey, not sure if they dropped the program or moved down. Don't remember them as a DI school otherwise. Didn't know West Chester was ever DI -- maybe DI basketball but DII in football. Of course, if you go pre-Dayton Rule you had a bunch of schools that were DI in basketball only into the 1970's and 1980's -- Catholic, NYU, CCNY are the 3 I can think of. I'm sure there were more. How long ago did the Carlisle Indians shut down athletics :)

Let's be honest hear there are a lot of D1 schools that never should have been D1!

You would think that the Ivy/PL are not a part of this cohort, but having lived through the Lafayette-to-DIII rumors in the past, I wish I could say it's zero chance. I think there is definitely a chance.

You would think the enormous Ivy endowments (and most PL endowments aren't terribly far behind) would insulate them more from these shenanigans, but I'm trying to find out more. My impression is the schools with huge hospital networks are the most at risk (think Penn Medical center, state schools like Maine where the University is the top Healthcare provider in the state, etc.). However Lehigh has a College of Health that seems like it could be affected, etc. Georgetown and Villanova have large medical presences, etc.

I also wonder about Colleges vs. Universities. On the surface it looks like colleges wouldn't be affected as badly - after all, Lafayette doesn't have a graduate medical research center with NIH funding - and rich colleges in particular seem like they would be in the best situation of all. But I need to look into it more.

One thought I had about reclassifying risks were MEAC schools. Delaware State leapt to mind. But any speculation would have to center on low-funded Northeast schools that either don't want to pay for House or suddenly can't afford it. The question is does that also include schools who might do it on principle.

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Originally Posted by Lehigh Football Nation

One thought I had about reclassifying risks were MEAC schools. Delaware State leapt to mind. But any speculation would have to center on low-funded Northeast schools that either don't want to pay for House or suddenly can't afford it. The question is does that also include schools who might do it on principle.

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IMHO, any school opting out is a candidate here. But yes, Mid-Atlantic and Northeast schools are most likely to do this.

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Originally Posted by Lehigh Football Nation

One thought I had about reclassifying risks were MEAC schools. Delaware State leapt to mind. But any speculation would have to center on low-funded Northeast schools that either don't want to pay for House or suddenly can't afford it. The question is does that also include schools who might do it on principle.

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I doubt any HBCU is dropping.

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Originally Posted by Bisonator

Let's be honest hear there are a lot of D1 schools that never should have been D1!

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Umm, yeah. This here. A lot of schools grasping at the golden ring trying to get name recognition or a cut of the pie, but nowhere near prepared to meet the needs of a respectable program. And if you need subsidies to exist, you probably shouldn't tie them to the ability to field sports teams. Ultimately, that's just moving money from one pot to the other.

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Originally Posted by ElCid

Umm, yeah. This here. A lot of schools grasping at the golden ring trying to get name recognition or a cut of the pie, but nowhere near prepared to meet the needs of a respectable program. And if you need subsidies to exist, you probably shouldn't tie them to the ability to field sports teams. Ultimately, that's just moving money from one pot to the other.

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Sounds like someone might be discovering soon how much his alma mater relies on federal programs and federal funding to survive as an institution.

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Originally Posted by Lehigh Football Nation

My impression is the schools with huge hospital networks are the most at risk (think Penn Medical center, state schools like Maine where the University is the top Healthcare provider in the state, etc.).

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Following this line of thinking, the schools in North Carolina most at risk of needing to bail out of Division I are UNC, Duke, Wake Forest, and ECU.

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Originally Posted by OhioHen

Following this line of thinking, the schools in North Carolina most at risk of needing to bail out of Division I are UNC, Duke, Wake Forest, and ECU.

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We were told that Division I Athletics were generating so much Fox/ESPN money that UNC, Duke and Wake were able to make a "profit". Let's see if they're right! Especially Wake.

ECU, OTOH, in deep trouble, again.

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Originally Posted by Lehigh Football Nation

We were told that Division I Athletics were generating so much Fox/ESPN money that UNC, Duke and Wake were able to make a "profit". Let's see if they're right! Especially Wake.

ECU, OTOH, in deep trouble, again.

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If that's actually the case, your news sources aren't providing you with facts. You need new sources.

I don't fully understand the connection to House. Can't schools OPT in or OPT out? Even if a league opts in, schools within that league can still opt out.

Who would be coercing the schools to pay out this $$ if indeed they can't afford to?

Per Matt Brown, it's sort of a combination of House and everything else that is causing the tough conversation.

"For other schools, the House settlement and increased cost structure of D1 athletics is forcing some difficult conversations. For at least one school, Trump/DOE/NIH budget cuts may be the shove off the D1 bridge. There isn't a one-size-fits-all situation here."

I'd say both could be correlated. If a school is nervous about the finances of House (news alert: most of D-I is very concerned) it stands to reason that the loss of federal funds (some reneging on promised money simply not showing up) would also be a huge financial challenge.

I think just the extra costs involved needed to be only somewhat competetive.

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Originally Posted by Lehigh Football Nation

Per Matt Brown, it's sort of a combination of House and everything else that is causing the tough conversation.

"For other schools, the House settlement and increased cost structure of D1 athletics is forcing some difficult conversations. For at least one school, Trump/DOE/NIH budget cuts may be the shove off the D1 bridge. There isn't a one-size-fits-all situation here."

I'd say both could be correlated. If a school is nervous about the finances of House (news alert: most of D-I is very concerned) it stands to reason that the loss of federal funds (some reneging on promised money simply not showing up) would also be a huge financial challenge.

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The UMaine System just lost $100 million due to that back and forth the Governor had with the President.

Although this is politics, the ramifications will affect quite a few universities. A&T, for example, lost millions in research dollars, pending court appeals. As a result, from what I've learned since starting this thead, some schools will need to make some drastic cost-cutting measures which could include dropping down to D2 or D3 in this era.

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Originally Posted by Lehigh Football Nation

Sounds like someone might be discovering soon how much his alma mater relies on federal programs and federal funding to survive as an institution.

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Huh? And how much federal funding do you believe The Citadel gets? It's a state school. And tuition has gotten ridiculous over the last couple decades. And while it is a Senior Military College, its operations are not necessarily dependent on federal programs. I love for the feds to write big checks to subsidize its operations.

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Originally Posted by ElCid

Huh? And how much federal funding do you believe The Citadel gets? It's a state school. And tuition has gotten ridiculous over the last couple decades. And while it is a Senior Military College,

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Same in Lex Vegas. a year of school at VMI is 6x what it was in 1976. {of course ElCid and I didn't have to worry about a wardrobe budget}

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Originally Posted by WestCoastAggie

The UMaine System just lost $100 million due to that back and forth the Governor had with the President.

Although this is politics, the ramifications will affect quite a few universities. A&T, for example, lost millions in research dollars, pending court appeals. As a result, from what I've learned since starting this thead, some schools will need to make some drastic cost-cutting measures which could include dropping down to D2 or D3 in this era.

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Play with fire and you will get burned.

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Originally Posted by ElCid

Huh? And how much federal funding do you believe The Citadel gets? It's a state school. And tuition has gotten ridiculous over the last couple decades. And while it is a Senior Military College, its operations are not necessarily dependent on federal programs. I love for the feds to write big checks to subsidize its operations.

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Close to $40 million, per annum...not inclusive of federal scholarship aid which, without question, is Federal Aid to The Citadel. The good news is that, much like Albany, most of the money is for cybersecurity and homeland security "research". Not on the chopping block right now. The $40 million translates to around 22% of The Citadel's total appropriated budget, per annum.

People getting all excited for the DOE getting blown up completely (and it definitely, without question, needed to be revamped to get rid of some absolutely poor spending), do not realize that Congressional appropriation for university funding is generally funneled through the DOE as the distribution body, along with NIH. The DOGE hits to NIH are having similar impacts to Universities.

I will post later about the realities of the "threats" of ending funding...it is being misconstrued by Matt and others.

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Originally Posted by KnightoftheRedFlash

Play with fire and you will get burned.

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Incorrect. The political part i could care less about, nor will i comment on. However, the President does not have the power to do what he is threatening to UMAINE. Columbia is a completely different story, there are legs there.

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Originally Posted by kdinva

Same in Lex Vegas. a year of school at VMI is 6x what it was in 1976. {of course ElCid and I didn't have to worry about a wardrobe budget}

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Yeah, but about 1/5 of my freshman year cost was uniforms. Eek. And maybe costs were higher for VMI back then or your quote was for in state, but the cost of The Citadel for out of state is currently 11 times what it cost me in 81. Double eek!

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Originally Posted by Dane96

Close to $40 million, per annum...not inclusive of federal scholarship aid which, without question, is Federal Aid to The Citadel. The good news is that, much like Albany, most of the money is for cybersecurity and homeland security "research". Not on the chopping block right now. The $40 million translates to around 22% of The Citadel's total appropriated budget, per annum.

People getting all excited for the DOE getting blown up completely (and it definitely, without question, needed to be revamped to get rid of some absolutely poor spending), do not realize that Congressional appropriation for university funding is generally funneled through the DOE as the distribution body, along with NIH. The DOGE hits to NIH are having similar impacts to Universities.

I will post later about the realities of the "threats" of ending funding...it is being misconstrued by Matt and others.

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Scholarships are not aid or subsidies. You can get ROTC scholarships at any school. I had to compete against student not only at The Citadel but against students all over. If the military want to have access to qualified officers, it uses scholarships as a tool for recruitment. I'll give you tuition aid is another thing entirely. We didn't have a lot of that when I went. If it is that much, it's too much. Costs need to be curtailed.

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Originally Posted by ElCid

Scholarships are not aid or subsidies. You can get ROTC scholarships at any school. I had to compete against student not only at The Citadel but against students all over. If the military want to have access to qualified officers, it uses scholarships as a tool for recruitment. I'll give you tuition aid is another thing entirely. We didn't have a lot of that when I went. If it is that much, it's too much. Costs need to be curtailed.

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We are both correct. I am not talking about ROTC> I am talking about direct, federally funded student aid $. A school can lose that money if Congress so deems. That money is specifically earmarked as a scholarship. That said, it accounts to less than $2 million per annum.

You guys also appear to be very confident none of those DoD and Homeland Security programs are on the chopping block. Personally, I am not that sure at all. Are they spared, for sure, 100%? I know for cybersecurity in particular Hesgeth is making terrible cuts in that area.

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Originally Posted by WestCoastAggie

The UMaine System just lost $100 million due to that back and forth the Governor had with the President.

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And a day later, it's been restored.

https://www.wmtw.com/article/after-p...tored/64168003

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Originally Posted by Lehigh Football Nation

You would think that the Ivy/PL are not a part of this cohort, but having lived through the Lafayette-to-DIII rumors in the past, I wish I could say it's zero chance. I think there is definitely a chance.

You would think the enormous Ivy endowments (and most PL endowments aren't terribly far behind) would insulate them more from these shenanigans, but I'm trying to find out more. My impression is the schools with huge hospital networks are the most at risk (think Penn Medical center, state schools like Maine where the University is the top Healthcare provider in the state, etc.). However Lehigh has a College of Health that seems like it could be affected, etc. Georgetown and Villanova have large medical presences, etc.

I also wonder about Colleges vs. Universities. On the surface it looks like colleges wouldn't be affected as badly - after all, Lafayette doesn't have a graduate medical research center with NIH funding - and rich colleges in particular seem like they would be in the best situation of all. But I need to look into it more.

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The University of Maine is the top healthcare provider in the state??? That’s news to me….they don’t even have a medical school. Don’t be looking for UMaine to be “dropping down”. $200+ million in privately funded athletic facilities investments….might want to worry about other schools that don’t have big fish donors.

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Originally Posted by mainejeff

The University of Maine is the top healthcare provider in the state??? That’s news to me….they don’t even have a medical school. Don’t be looking for UMaine to be “dropping down”. $200+ million in privately funded athletic facilities investments….might want to worry about other schools that don’t have big fish donors.

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Looking again the Maine hospital complex in Portland is run by Tufts, Dartmouth and some other schools, my bad. I did see though that the threat of pulling NIH funding would have not only wrecked that, but NIH funding that would have affected a bunch of schools including UMaine (University of New England, Southern Maine). My impression from the Matt Brown scoop was that UMaine was much more affected. It's also on two fronts, the NIH and the USDA.

As it turns out Trump once again needlessly caused chaos and backed off from the preventable crisis that he alone created. But who knows what invented crisis he'll cone up with next that could wreck government funding for your school.

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Originally Posted by mainejeff

The University of Maine is the top healthcare provider in the state??? That’s news to me….they don’t even have a medical school. Don’t be looking for UMaine to be “dropping down”. $200+ million in privately funded athletic facilities investments….might want to worry about other schools that don’t have big fish donors.

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LFN is the King of fake news on this sight.

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Originally Posted by Sitting Bull

LFN is the King of fake news on this sight.

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And he must have cognitive issues since he is introducing inappropriate political opinions into the sports forum.

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Originally Posted by Lehigh Football Nation

You guys also appear to be very confident none of those DoD and Homeland Security programs are on the chopping block. Personally, I am not that sure at all. Are they spared, for sure, 100%? I know for cybersecurity in particular Hesgeth is making terrible cuts in that area.

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There is bloat that needs to go.

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Originally Posted by KnightoftheRedFlash

There is bloat that needs to go.

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If these joint programs are "bloat" that is being cut, then The Citadel will be affected as an institution, is all I'm saying. No different than Trump using NIH and USDA as a weapon to threaten to remove funding from institutions. I don't think Lehigh is immune, or Ohio State, or The Citadel. Some might be more affected than others.

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Originally Posted by Lehigh Football Nation

If these joint programs are "bloat" that is being cut, then The Citadel will be affected as an institution, is all I'm saying. No different than Trump using NIH and USDA as a weapon to threaten to remove funding from institutions. I don't think Lehigh is immune, or Ohio State, or The Citadel. Some might be more affected than others.

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OK. So be it.

The piper has to be paid eventually.

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Originally Posted by KnightoftheRedFlash

OK. So be it.

The piper has to be paid eventually.

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People like him vote, ya'll.

It would be funny if it wasn't dangerous.

On a side note about schools possibly dropping down, UNLV is in debt and reportedly unable to fulfill the contract of its new head football coach.

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Originally Posted by jajfitz

On a side note about schools possibly dropping down, UNLV is in debt and reportedly unable to fulfill the contract of its new head football coach.

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Maybe they should call up the casino that last minute tried to offer Sluka his NIL money.

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Originally Posted by Ridge1982

People like him vote, ya'll.

It would be funny if it wasn't dangerous.

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Keep squawking, bootlicker.

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Originally Posted by KnightoftheRedFlash

OK. So be it.

The piper has to be paid eventually.

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Yes he does!!!