Paterno Fired

[Go...gate]

About 20 minutes ago.

[Gil Dobie]

So they hire a person that was there the last 10 years that knew nothing of Sandusky's transgressions, obviously because he did nothing to expose the issue.

[Franks Tanks]

So they hire a person that was there the last 10 years that knew nothing of Sandusky's transgressions, obviously because he did nothing to expose the issue.

Tom Bradley has been a Penn State coach for 33 years, and he played for Joe before that. Bradley did not witness anything, and has not given testimony to the grand jury. Bradley surely knew about the allegations levied against Sandusky, but he witnessed nothing and perhaps did not hear McQueary's first hand account of the attack. As far as he knew law enforcement was continuing an investigation into Sandusky.

[darell1976]

Still don't know why Paterno got fired. He didn't keep it to himself he told the AD?!? Should he have told police sure but again its not like he didn't try to hide anything.

[Franks Tanks]

Still don't know why Paterno got fired. He didn't keep it to himself he told the AD?!? Should he have told police sure but again its not like he didn't try to hide anything.

He did tell the police. He told Gary Shultz, the man in charge of the Penn State campus police department. As I mentioned in the other thread the Penn State police department has all the power and rights of a normal municipal police department, and they are the law on the Penn State campus where the assault occured. What is muddled is what happened next, and we simply don't know right now.

[BisonBacker]

Like it or not and right or wrong Paterno's legacy will forever be tarnished by what he didn't do. He didn't commit the heinous acts against the children and it's glaringly (if thats a word) obvious he didn't do enough to bring the whole issue to light at the time to get the kids the help they need and to remove a cancer that hid within the Penn State Coaching staff for years.

[Tuscon]

Should of let the guy retire still. Especially since he did tell the AD and apparently the Penn State PD(I've only heard that here).

[darell1976]

Like it or not and right or wrong Paterno's legacy will forever be tarnished by what he didn't do. He didn't commit the heinous acts against the children and it's glaringly (if thats a word) obvious he didn't do enough to bring the whole issue to light at the time to get the kids the help they need and to remove a cancer that hid within the Penn State Coaching staff for years.

People are going to see this as Football First and humanity second.

[Franks Tanks]

Should of let the guy retire still. Especially since he did tell the AD and apparently the Penn State PD(I've only heard that here).

Sorry slight error. McQueary reported what he saw to his father first, and they went to Paterno. Paterno reported the incident to Curley the AD. Soon after McQueary had a meeting with Curley and Shultz (head of campus police) to speak about what he saw. Paterno was not present at the meeting. Paterno did not meet with Shultz, but he certainly knew McQueary the witness was doing so.

All of this per the Grand Jury report.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Madness.

My little take on things:

http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2011/11/night-college-football-died.html

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Sorry slight error. McQueary reported what he saw to his father first, and they went to Paterno. Paterno reported the incident to Curley the AD. Soon after McQueary had a meeting with Curley and Shultz (head of campus police) to speak about what he saw. Paterno was not present at the meeting. Paterno did not meet with Shultz, but he certainly knew McQueary the witness was doing so.

All of this per the Grand Jury report.

Anyone notice how insular this whole community an university is? Those poor kids didn't have a chance, not a single person in authority in the whole damn place was willing to rock the boat. The whole "Joe did the right thing" thing is completely blown up when he buries his head in the sand for an additional 7-9 years after this incident.

Everybody is complicit.....everybody.

[Professor Chaos]

I agree that you can't let Paterno be on the sidelines Saturday and almost assuredly never again at Penn St but the board of trustees made this worse with the way they handled it. The better course of action would've been to announce that JoePa is indefinitely suspended effective immediately at the press conference. Let his legion of loyal followers down slowly by giving the appearance that he may not be completely done (so they won't riot overnight), let the legal process at least get started, and most importantly give the man himself the respect he deserves with a face-to-face meeting informing him of the decision and give him some time to tell his staff and players instead of immediately dropping the bomb at a press conference. The board was bullied into firing him this abruptly by the court of public opinion and it was spineless and classless way to do it. This man has given more of himself to that university the last 61 years of his life than they will ever know and he deserved a more dignified ouster than what he got. He made a mistake and I'm not disputing that it is a firable mistake but it was handled very poorly.

[AppAlum2003]

He did tell the police. He told Gary Shultz, the man in charge of the Penn State campus police department. As I mentioned in the other thread the Penn State police department has all the power and rights of a normal municipal police department, and they are the law on the Penn State campus where the assault occured. What is muddled is what happened next, and we simply don't know right now.

Seriously? Sandusky was still showing up the team complexes every day for YEARS. How could JoePa look him in the eye? He had chance each and every single day to tell someone else when Shultz swept it under the rug. Everyone stop defending JoePa. He, McQueary, the AD, the President, everyone.... they're all culpable. If Sandusky disappeared after 2002 and was never on campus again, I could give JoePa and Co more of a pass. But I heard yesterday he was on campus again in 2005 with another boy. Gross.

[Franks Tanks]

Anyone notice how insular this whole community an university is? Those poor kids didn't have a chance, not a single person in authority in the whole damn place was willing to rock the boat. The whole "Joe did the right thing" thing is completely blown up when he buries his head in the sand for an additional 7-9 years after this incident.

Everybody is complicit.....everybody.

I specifically said Joe has some explaining to do regarding what took place after McQueary reported the assaut to Curley and Shultz. This more than anything is why he is being killed.

[darell1976]

#19 Nebraska at #12 Penn State... As a Husker fan I was looking forward to this game. Now its more than a game. Its gonna be more than talk about X's and o's. Everything will be about the scandal and Joe Paterno. I just hope ESPN can stray away from that and just talk football.

[Franks Tanks]

Seriously? Sandusky was still showing up the team complexes every day for YEARS. How could JoePa look him in the eye? He had chance each and every single day to tell someone else when Shultz swept it under the rug. Everyone stop defending JoePa. He, McQueary, the AD, the President, everyone.... they're all culpable. If Sandusky disappeared after 2002 and was never on campus again, I could give JoePa and Co more of a pass. But I heard yesterday he was on campus again in 2005 with another boy. Gross.

Reports are that he was not on campus or in the football offices everyday. He was certainly on campus at times, and from what I understand it was usually through events sponsored through his Second mile organization. Again we need answers as to why he was still around, and why Penn State and the Second Mile didn't immediatly seperate themselves from Sandusky.

[NHwildEcat]

#19 Nebraska at #12 Penn State... As a Husker fan I was looking forward to this game. Now its more than a game. Its gonna be more than talk about X's and o's. Everything will be about the scandal and Joe Paterno. I just hope ESPN can stray away from that and just talk football.

ESPN just talking football...that would be a first.

[GannonFan]

I agree that you can't let Paterno be on the sidelines Saturday and almost assuredly never again at Penn St but the board of trustees made this worse with the way they handled it. The better course of action would've been to announce that JoePa is indefinitely suspended effective immediately at the press conference. Let his legion of loyal followers down slowly by giving the appearance that he may not be completely done (so they won't riot overnight), let the legal process at least get started, and most importantly give the man himself the respect he deserves with a face-to-face meeting informing him of the decision and give him some time to tell his staff and players instead of immediately dropping the bomb at a press conference. The board was bullied into firing him this abruptly by the court of public opinion and it was spineless and classless way to do it. This man has given more of himself to that university the last 61 years of his life than they will ever know and he deserved a more dignified ouster than what he got. He made a mistake and I'm not disputing that it is a firable mistake but it was handled very poorly.

He "made a mistake"? By his inaction, for more than a decade, he let a known child molester stay legitimate and in access to more boys who, not shockingly, he continued to sexually abuse. That's not a mistake, it's a complete moral failure. Boys were raped, repeatedly, and people, including Joe Pa, knew it and they didn't do anywhere near enough to make sure it didn't happen again. And obviously something is rotten at the core at Penn St when they choose to riot over such a morally-corrupt person being fired but they don't riot over the fact that their institution helped a monster rape children for decades. Sad doesn't begin to describe it.

[Professor Chaos]

He "made a mistake"? By his inaction, for more than a decade, he let a known child molester stay legitimate and in access to more boys who, not shockingly, he continued to sexually abuse. That's not a mistake, it's a complete moral failure. Boys were raped, repeatedly, and people, including Joe Pa, knew it and they didn't do anywhere near enough to make sure it didn't happen again. And obviously something is rotten at the core at Penn St when they choose to riot over such a morally-corrupt person being fired but they don't riot over the fact that their institution helped a monster rape children for decades. Sad doesn't begin to describe it.
You say complete moral failure and I say it's a mistake. Express it how you will but it's unacceptable in any case and I'm not disputing that he should be fired over it. That being said, he's not morally corrupt. He made an incredibly poor judgement by allowing himself to be ignorant to the knowledge he had of the heinous acts being committed by his associate. Sandusky and the athletic director are the morally corrupt individuals in this mess. Joe Pa "should've" done more, that is indisputable and any pleas of ignorance are total BS. The board also "should've" handled his firing more respectfully than they did. They, more than anyone, know what he meant to the students and alumni of that university and they should've had the foresight to know the rioting that such an aprubt firing would trigger.

[Rob Iola]

You say complete moral failure and I say it's a mistake. Express it how you will but it's unacceptable in any case and I'm not disputing that he should be fired over it. That being said, he's not morally corrupt. He made an incredibly poor judgement by allowing himself to be ignorant to the knowledge he had of the heinous acts being committed by his associate. Sandusky and the athletic director are the morally corrupt individuals in this mess. Joe Pa "should've" done more, that is indisputable and any pleas of ignorance are total BS. The board also "should've" handled his firing more respectfully than they did. They, more than anyone, know what he meant to the students and alumni of that university and they should've had the foresight to know the rioting that such an aprubt firing would trigger.
A mistake, big or small, is a one-time event/issue/problem. That's not what happened here.

"Saint Joe", right? The analogy is to Catholic bishops who knew but did nothing.

The truly sad thing is that Paterno was the one person who could've helped those boys, AND HE DAMN WELL KNEW IT, and yet he washed his hands of it. No one else in Central PA would dare do anything if it reflected poorly on Joe and Penn State football.

Saints/Bishops/Joe Paterno are held to a higher standard. Boys were raped because he looked away. He knew. Sadly, Joe Paterno is morally corrupt.

[BisonBacker]

He "made a mistake"? By his inaction, for more than a decade, he let a known child molester stay legitimate and in access to more boys who, not shockingly, he continued to sexually abuse. That's not a mistake, it's a complete moral failure. Boys were raped, repeatedly, and people, including Joe Pa, knew it and they didn't do anywhere near enough to make sure it didn't happen again. And obviously something is rotten at the core at Penn St when they choose to riot over such a morally-corrupt person being fired but they don't riot over the fact that their institution helped a monster rape children for decades. Sad doesn't begin to describe it.

The bolded parts are what I agree with. I won't speculate all what happened with those poor boys and the legal system will hopefully dole out appropriate penalties to this scumbag. But when a grad assistant says he saw a coach, an adult male in a shower alone with a boy in the locker room. To the average person that would raise HUGE RED FLAGS and therein is the first failure of all involved to make sure he was investigated and removed if necessary which abviously was necessary. But unfortunately that happened to way late.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

#19 Nebraska at #12 Penn State... As a Husker fan I was looking forward to this game. Now its more than a game. Its gonna be more than talk about X's and o's. Everything will be about the scandal and Joe Paterno. I just hope ESPN can stray away from that and just talk football.

Frankly, I cannot see this game actually being played. It should not be played. And if ABC/ESPN decides to televise this sideshow of a game, they ought to be strung up in the court of public opinion about it. That's my opinion.

Why? For the reason you describe. It won't be a game, it will be a sideshow. And again, if ABC/ESPN televises it, it will show that all they care about is ratings.

[BisonBacker]

You just answered whether it will be televised or not in your own post. It's all about the ratings therefore it will be televised and yes it will be nothing more than a sideshow (the game).

[OL FU]

You say complete moral failure and I say it's a mistake. Express it how you will but it's unacceptable in any case and I'm not disputing that he should be fired over it. That being said, he's not morally corrupt. He made an incredibly poor judgement by allowing himself to be ignorant to the knowledge he had of the heinous acts being committed by his associate. Sandusky and the athletic director are the morally corrupt individuals in this mess. Joe Pa "should've" done more, that is indisputable and any pleas of ignorance are total BS. The board also "should've" handled his firing more respectfully than they did. They, more than anyone, know what he meant to the students and alumni of that university and they should've had the foresight to know the rioting that such an aprubt firing would trigger.

Some mistakes are simply not forgivable.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

You just answered whether it will be televised or not in your own post. It's all about the ratings therefore it will be televised and yes it will be nothing more than a sideshow (the game).

"#PennState #BigTen #ESPN #NCAA #NoGameThisSaturday" is what I've been tweeting today. I'd hope others would do the same, send a message where folks priorities should lie.

[NHwildEcat]

Frankly, I cannot see this game actually being played. It should not be played. And if ABC/ESPN decides to televise this sideshow of a game, they ought to be strung up in the court of public opinion about it. That's my opinion.

Why? For the reason you describe. It won't be a game, it will be a sideshow. And again, if ABC/ESPN televises it, it will show that all they care about is ratings.

Why wouldn't they broadcast this game? Sideshow or not ESPN/ABC only cares about their ratings. They already have their sponsors in place for the ads etc...as far as that stuff in concerned. And why should they punish the Penn State players and take away their game? They did no wrong. It was their coach and his all mighty power. Don't punish the players because they had a coach who had a complete disregard for morality.

[TTUEagles]

They should play the game and all ticket/concessions/merchandise sales ($) go to the victims...Penn St. should fall on its sword and forego the millions they'd make for this game-offer it up as a fraction of the percentage of the apologies it should be making...It's probably not that simple, but, that's just off of the top of my head.

[darell1976]

They should play the game and all ticket/concessions/merchandise sales ($) go to the victims...Penn St. should fall on its sword and forego the millions they'd make for this game-offer it up as a fraction of the percentage of the apologies it should be making...It's probably not that simple, but, that's just off of the top of my head.

I wonder how much of a $$$ the school will take a hit. Remember they are starting up a new hockey team and that costs money too. Not going to be pretty when budget numbers come in.

[Franks Tanks]

I wonder how much of a $$$ the school will take a hit. Remember they are starting up a new hockey team and that costs money too. Not going to be pretty when budget numbers come in.

The hockey team and the arena were paid for by a donor. The University will have to deal with several lawsuits from the victims, or some sort of negotiated settlement, but they will have to wait until Sandusky is found guilty.

[darell1976]

The hockey team and the arena were paid for by a donor. The University will have to deal with several lawsuits from the victims, or some sort of negotiated settlement, but they will have to wait until Sandusky is found guilty.

Do you think the NCAA will sanction them in some way?

[NHwildEcat]

I wonder how much of a $$$ the school will take a hit. Remember they are starting up a new hockey team and that costs money too. Not going to be pretty when budget numbers come in.

I posed a question to a friend of mine earlier this morning about their hockey team...they have yet to break ground on the arena, is there a chance the donor changes his mind and rethinks investing the $88 million he has planned for the hockey team and take it away. Thus eliminating their opportunity to start up a varsity program? Also interesting fact I heard regarding that doner. He is on the board of Second City...so he should very well know Sandusky. How much he knows of him would only be speculation. But Sandusky runs very deep and into the core of that school.

[Franks Tanks]

Do you think the NCAA will sanction them in some way?

I have no idea really. The NCAA is currently not set up to sanction schools for matters such as this so they would have to have a fundamental change in their oversight power. I guess this is the incident that would spark change if there it is in the cards.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Why wouldn't they broadcast this game? Sideshow or not ESPN/ABC only cares about their ratings. They already have their sponsors in place for the ads etc...as far as that stuff in concerned. And why should they punish the Penn State players and take away their game? They did no wrong. It was their coach and his all mighty power. Don't punish the players because they had a coach who had a complete disregard for morality.

But the game this weekend won't be about the seniors. That ship, sadly, has sailed. The sad reality is that the game would be about TV ratings for ABC/ESPN - making a profit off this horrible tragedy.

[BlueHenSinfonian]

But the game this weekend won't be about the seniors. That ship, sadly, has sailed. The sad reality is that the game would be about TV ratings for ABC/ESPN - making a profit off this horrible tragedy.

The networks may get great ratings out of it, but that's no reason to punish the kids on the team by canceling the game. Plus, Nebraska has nothing to do with the whole scandal, so why screw up their schedule, potential bowl aspirations, etc, for something that they had no control over?

The game needs to go on, Penn State needs to move beyond the events of the past week and regain some semblance of normalcy. There's no reason to destroy a program and throw away the work of a lot of dedicated people because of the actions of one man.

[NHwildEcat]

But the game this weekend won't be about the seniors. That ship, sadly, has sailed. The sad reality is that the game would be about TV ratings for ABC/ESPN - making a profit off this horrible tragedy.

I don't disagree, but to the players they go to school there to play. Albeit none of them expected it to be under these circumstances, it would be terrible for them to not be able to play. The students/players need to play to move on from this terrible act.

And all ESPN does is profit off of people one way or the other. They are already profiting off of this by covering the story, that is ratings and ratings sells more ads...no matter what they will get their money.

[AppAlum2003]

Reports are that he was not on campus or in the football offices everyday. He was certainly on campus at times, and from what I understand it was usually through events sponsored through his Second mile organization. Again we need answers as to why he was still around, and why Penn State and the Second Mile didn't immediatly seperate themselves from Sandusky.

According to the Grand Jury Report, both Schultz and McQuery called the ban on him bringing children to campus "unenforceable". Pathetic.

[AppAlum2003]

I posed a question to a friend of mine earlier this morning about their hockey team...they have yet to break ground on the arena, is there a chance the donor changes his mind and rethinks investing the $88 million he has planned for the hockey team and take it away. Thus eliminating their opportunity to start up a varsity program? Also interesting fact I heard regarding that doner. He is on the board of Second City...so he should very well know Sandusky. How much he knows of him would only be speculation. But Sandusky runs very deep and into the core of that school.

Darren Rovell said yesterday that early estimates are liability of around $100 million for Penn State... and that's just in lawsuits, not merchandise loss/ticket sales.

Oh, and schools have liability insurance for situations like this but it's no good if criminal activities were knowingly concealed.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Darren Rovell said yesterday that early estimates are liability of around $100 million for Penn State... and that's just in lawsuits, not merchandise loss/ticket sales.

Maybe Minnesota and Wisconsin can try to get the WCHA back together. :)

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The networks may get great ratings out of it, but that's no reason to punish the kids on the team by canceling the game. Plus, Nebraska has nothing to do with the whole scandal, so why screw up their schedule, potential bowl aspirations, etc, for something that they had no control over?

The game needs to go on, Penn State needs to move beyond the events of the past week and regain some semblance of normalcy. There's no reason to destroy a program and throw away the work of a lot of dedicated people because of the actions of one man.

The kids didn't destroy the program. Others did that, through their inaction.

I completely disagree that "the game must go on". There is nothing normal about what happened, or is happening, at Penn State. Putting on this farce of a football game simply gives the message that there is no action too heinous to stop the unstoppable force that is a Penn State football game and the TV revenues from that. Child sex scandals? Man, that's terrible, but what are you going to do? That's the message that's sent.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

The kids didn't destroy the program. Others did that, through their inaction.

I completely disagree that "the game must go on". There is nothing normal about what happened, or is happening, at Penn State. Putting on this farce of a football game simply gives the message that there is no action too heinous to stop the unstoppable force that is a Penn State football game and the TV revenues from that. Child sex scandals? Man, that's terrible, but what are you going to do? That's the message that's sent.


I agree, this whole thing comes down to hero worship. The kids, coaches, and players worshipped Sandusky and Paterno. That's the biggest reason that McQueary didn't go to the cops like he should have, that's the reason nobody went to the cops like they should have. You don't take sides against the family. There isn't a punishment available that will be enough for the whole damn lot of them. Cancel the program, blow the building up, and let all the players have an extra year of eligibility. They should just close the school since their students seem to love people who facilitate child rape.

[BlueHenSinfonian]

The kids didn't destroy the program. Others did that, through their inaction.

I completely disagree that "the game must go on". There is nothing normal about what happened, or is happening, at Penn State. Putting on this farce of a football game simply gives the message that there is no action too heinous to stop the unstoppable force that is a Penn State football game and the TV revenues from that. Child sex scandals? Man, that's terrible, but what are you going to do? That's the message that's sent.

We are of differing opinions regarding Paterno's culpability in all of this. As far as I see it, he reported what he saw, the police the AD and the DA were all aware, and either chose to do nothing, or felt there wasn't enough evidence at the time to do anything. Paterno's job was to coach the football team, not run an investigative unit. The police knew for sure about one incident and it sounds very likely they were informed about what the grad assistant witnessed in the showers. The duty to investigate criminal activity falls on the police department, and the duty to bring charges and consequences rests on the DAs. The job of the football coach isn't to assume he knows more about what's going on than those whose specialties are the investigation of criminal activity and the application of justice.

If the police were aware of Sandusky's actions and chose to do nothing, punish them. If the administration at PSU decided to sweep evidence under the rug and lie during testimony, hold them culpable for their actions. As far as the rest of them go, from Paterno who did what he was supposed to do and reported what he heard (and this is very important, he heard second hand, he apparently did not witness anything) to the students on the team who likely didn't know anything about this, to groundskeepers, concession stand employees, and hundreds of other support staff that depend on Penn State athletics for their livelihoods, there is no reason they should be punished for something that was completely out of their hands.

[Franks Tanks]

I agree, this whole thing comes down to hero worship. The kids, coaches, and players worshipped Sandusky and Paterno. That's the biggest reason that McQueary didn't go to the cops like he should have, that's the reason nobody went to the cops like they should have. You don't take sides against the family. There isn't a punishment available that will be enough for the whole damn lot of them. Cancel the program, blow the building up, and let all the players have an extra year of eligibility. They should just close the school since their students seem to love people who facilitate child rape.

Close a school with 96,000 students and nearly 9k employees across 25 campuses. That makes a lot of sense.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

We are of differing opinions regarding Paterno's culpability in all of this. As far as I see it, he reported what he saw, the police the AD and the DA were all aware, and either chose to do nothing, or felt there wasn't enough evidence at the time to do anything. Paterno's job was to coach the football team, not run an investigative unit. The police knew for sure about one incident and it sounds very likely they were informed about what the grad assistant witnessed in the showers. The duty to investigate criminal activity falls on the police department, and the duty to bring charges and consequences rests on the DAs. The job of the football coach isn't to assume he knows more about what's going on than those whose specialties are the investigation of criminal activity and the application of justice.

If the police were aware of Sandusky's actions and chose to do nothing, punish them. If the administration at PSU decided to sweep evidence under the rug and lie during testimony, hold them culpable for their actions. As far as the rest of them go, from Paterno who did what he was supposed to do and reported what he heard (and this is very important, he heard second hand, he apparently did not witness anything) to the students on the team who likely didn't know anything about this, to groundskeepers, concession stand employees, and hundreds of other support staff that depend on Penn State athletics for their livelihoods, there is no reason they should be punished for something that was completely out of their hands.

When you are the face of the organization and as iconic as Paterno, nothing is out of your hands. Just like I said....hero worship

I get the feeling not many of you have kids.

[BisonBacker]

Here's another thing about this and it's not just this story where things like this happen. What the hell is with these students going crazy and vandalizing public property? WTF I mean really where do any of these hoodlums get off doing this kind of crap? You see it in cities where a professional team wins a championship. You see it in situations where someone doesn't like something that has happened good or bad. A persons character or lack of character really shows when they do crap like that. I wish every last one of them could be caught and punished but I know that's not going to happen. These are the same types who will be out protesting in these wall street protests *****ing about not being able to find a job and complaining about a college degree.xnonox

[BlueHenSinfonian]

When you are the face of the organization and as iconic as Paterno, nothing is out of your hands. Just like I said....hero worship

I get the feeling not many of you have kids.

The bolded part is completely irrelevant. If anything having kids would make someone more biased in a situation like this. 'Think of the children' (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children's_interests) is used as often as an excuse to diminish privacy, promote censorship, and further political goals as it is to actually protect kids. The alleged crimes are awful, and it's certainly sad that the victims are children, but that's no excuse to throw all reason and logic out of the door.

Unless Paterno actually saw Sandusky do something wrong, or Sandusky came to him and confessed, Paterno only had a second hand account and he informed those that had the power to do something about it. The police don't want random people messing around in their investigations, and anything Paterno could have done could have possibly resulted in screwing up whatever investigation the police might have launched into the allegations. The police exist to determine what the facts are in any investigation. Anything Paterno could have done would have been based on rumor and accusations, not on facts. I don't get the outrage that he didn't go off half-cocked and meddle about in the middle of something without having any idea what was really going on.

[ngineer]

People are going to see this as Football First and humanity second.

Just the opposite. If Paterno was allowed to coach this weekend or through the end of the season, it sends the message that football is first and the destruction of children is second. Paterno has always been self-righteous about Penn State always "doing the right thing" or doing it "with honor". If you are told by a 28 year old man that he witnessed Sandusky raping a 10 year old boy in the team's locker room, and all you do is wait 24 hours, and then merely tell your boss, something is dreadfully wrong. Sandusky was under suspicion for years leading up to his resignation in 1999. Anyone who is in the business of coaching/counseling/mentoring juveniles is aware of the concerns over pedafilia and how the abusers 'groom' the victims. For Paterno to merely tell Curley and/or Schultz what was told to him, without any follow, up KNOWING that Sandusky was out there with innumerable other children is inexcusable. For PSU to allow Joe continue coaching and riding out on his on his own terms would have been excusing his conduct and sending the message that protecting a football coach's "legacy" is more important than sending a clear message that such conduct cannot and will not be tolerated. I applaud the PSU Board of Trustees for taking a gutsy and principled stand. For people to be complaining about the way Paterno has been treated, have no clue as to the devastation his inaction (as well as that of others) has caused. Paterno will forever be recognized for all of his good deeds, both for his players, Penn State, and college athletics in general. But he is not so big that such a transgression of looking the other way when helpless children were being assaulted should not be punished in the way he has.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure I am biased in this case, mostly because I don't worship people who protect child rapists. But that's just me.

You think only Grampy Joe ever thought "Hey, I wonder if Sandusky is still raping kids in the shower.....nah, couldn't be, I told the campus police and I'm sure they did something".

Just the same head in the sand mentality. Protect the program, protect Joe.

Defending the indefensible. I gotta hand it to you.

[OB55]

Given the velocity of this whole affair, there is likely a lot more devil in the details here. What if Go-Pa is charged with being complicit or at least an enabler, the old fart could end up tossing salads in prison.

You guys going to line up and cry for him then, and keep acting as if he were the victim?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

We are of differing opinions regarding Paterno's culpability in all of this. As far as I see it, he reported what he saw, the police the AD and the DA were all aware, and either chose to do nothing, or felt there wasn't enough evidence at the time to do anything. Paterno's job was to coach the football team, not run an investigative unit. The police knew for sure about one incident and it sounds very likely they were informed about what the grad assistant witnessed in the showers. The duty to investigate criminal activity falls on the police department, and the duty to bring charges and consequences rests on the DAs. The job of the football coach isn't to assume he knows more about what's going on than those whose specialties are the investigation of criminal activity and the application of justice.

If the police were aware of Sandusky's actions and chose to do nothing, punish them. If the administration at PSU decided to sweep evidence under the rug and lie during testimony, hold them culpable for their actions. As far as the rest of them go, from Paterno who did what he was supposed to do and reported what he heard (and this is very important, he heard second hand, he apparently did not witness anything) to the students on the team who likely didn't know anything about this, to groundskeepers, concession stand employees, and hundreds of other support staff that depend on Penn State athletics for their livelihoods, there is no reason they should be punished for something that was completely out of their hands.

Certainly there is a boatload of blame to go around. I'm all for investigating the police, the admin at PSU, and everybody. But to hold them accountable and not Paterno - what sense is that?

It wasn't only Paterno's fault - it was the fault of a multitude of people up and down the line. But he absolutely is a part of the whole problem. If I'm the head (yes, he's the head) of an organization that cannot abide by the reporting of one of the most heinous crimes imaginable, even though he might have done the minimum of what was required of him in such a situation, the end result was that this predator continued to perform his heinous acts. At an absolute minimum, it's out-of-touch. At maximum, he in effect allowed the crimes by ignoring them and hoping they would go away.

Another reason to not have the game this weekend - who knows how culpable all the assistant coaches are that are still on the Penn State staff? The guy promoted to interim head coach was Paterno's assistant for 19 years - he was there. He worked with the guy who's the subject of the grand jury investigation. Should he be fired? What did he know?

[ngineer]

He "made a mistake"? By his inaction, for more than a decade, he let a known child molester stay legitimate and in access to more boys who, not shockingly, he continued to sexually abuse. That's not a mistake, it's a complete moral failure. Boys were raped, repeatedly, and people, including Joe Pa, knew it and they didn't do anywhere near enough to make sure it didn't happen again. And obviously something is rotten at the core at Penn St when they choose to riot over such a morally-corrupt person being fired but they don't riot over the fact that their institution helped a monster rape children for decades. Sad doesn't begin to describe it.

Right on.

[BlueHenSinfonian]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure I am biased in this case, mostly because I don't worship people who protect child rapists. But that's just me.

You think only Grampy Joe ever thought "Hey, I wonder if Sandusky is still raping kids in the shower.....nah, couldn't be, I told the campus police and I'm sure they did something".

Just the same head in the sand mentality. Protect the program, protect Joe.

Defending the indefensible. I gotta hand it to you.

Do you think Paterno knew what was going on? He heard an accusation, and he reported it. Was Paterno supposed to assume the accusation was true, or hand it off to those whose job it is to determine the truth about such things and let them use their expertise to make the call?

For every story about a sexual predator slipping through the cracks there is another one about someone's life being ruined by false accusations. What if the grad assistant had made the whole story up over some personal feud with Sandusky? Paterno's job duties at PSU did not include the investigation of criminal offenses. Had he taken action without any kind of hard evidence he could have opened himself and the university up to potentially huge liabilities.

The major failure here was on the police in failing their investigation, or on the PSU VP who headed the police department in not not following up.

[ngineer]

Additionally, I cannot believe that nothing (as yet) has been done about McQueery! He's going to be on the sidelines Saturday sending in the plays? The gutless sh**! 28 years old and comes upon a 50+year old man raping a 10 year old boy in his team's locker room and he just turns and runs out to tell his daddy?! I know 10 year old boys who would have attacked Sandusky and tried to come to the other's aid, or at the very least yell and get help.WTF is going on???????????

[Lehigh Football Nation]

What if the grad assistant had made the whole story up over some personal feud with Sandusky? Paterno's job duties at PSU did not include the investigation of criminal offenses. Had he taken action without any kind of hard evidence he could have opened himself and the university up to potentially huge liabilities.

As if PSU has not opened themselves up to potentially huge liabilities now by staying silent about it.

[ngineer]

Do you think Paterno knew what was going on? He heard an accusation, and he reported it. Was Paterno supposed to assume the accusation was true, or hand it off to those whose job it is to determine the truth about such things and let them use their expertise to make the call?

For every story about a sexual predator slipping through the cracks there is another one about someone's life being ruined by false accusations. What if the grad assistant had made the whole story up over some personal feud with Sandusky? Paterno's job duties at PSU did not include the investigation of criminal offenses. Had he taken action without any kind of hard evidence he could have opened himself and the university up to potentially huge liabilities. The major failure here was on the police in failing their investigation, or on the PSU VP who headed the police department in not not following up.


No, his failure, and the others' failure, to act will open up the University to huge liabilities. "It's not in my job description" does not cut it. With what he was told, he had a duty to make sure that Sandusky was dealt with by the authorities. There had been reports of "inappropriate" conduct between Sandusky and other young boys for many years prior to 2002. For Paterno and the others who had been around Sandusky for many years not to see what was happening is like the Nazis saying they had 'no idea' what Hitler was doing to the Jews. They were complicit in allowing Sandusky to have continued access to PSU with the kids, and complicit in not having Sandusky confronted when action was ripe for taking. McQueey was an extremely credible witness. This is not a situation where an impressionable child might make allegations about what happened to them with people questioning whether the kid is making something up. This was a 28 year old graduate assistant who witnessed the event! What more is there to say?

[NoDak 4 Ever]

No, his failure, and the others' failure, to act will open up the University to huge liabilities. "It's not in my job description" does not cut it. With what he was told, he had a duty to make sure that Sandusky was dealt with by the authorities. There had been reports of "inappropriate" conduct between Sandusky and other young boys for many years prior to 2002. For Paterno and the others who had been around Sandusky for many years not to see what was happening is like the Nazis saying they had 'no idea' what Hitler was doing to the Jews. They were complicit in allowing Sandusky to have continued access to PSU with the kids, and complicit in not having Sandusky confronted when action was ripe for taking. McQueey was an extremely credible witness. This is not a situation where an impressionable child might make allegations about what happened to them with people questioning whether the kid is making something up. This was a 28 year old graduate assistant who witnessed the event! What more is there to say?

I think this is really where the rubber meets the road in this whole thing. If you are going to be the head of an organization, the responsibility for everything that goes on in that organization belongs to you. You do not get to pass it off to anyone. McQueary should have been dismissed for not intervening, Sandusky should have been under the jail 10 years ago, not roaming the campus like nothing happened and Joe should have resigned for trusting such untrustworthy people.

[dgtw]

Here's what Paterno should have done.

"Thanks for letting me know about this. Get in my car, we're going to the police. I'll sit with you while you are talking to them.".

I'll go out on a limb and say Paterno could have gotten a meeting with the police chief without an appointment.

I agree McQueary should also be fired. He wasn't some 18 year old equipment manager who walked in on that mess. He was a 27 year old man. Yet he did nothing.

I do think that given the years he spent there, Paterno deserved a face to face meeting instead of being fired over the phone. I wouldn't have had a huge problem if he had been allowed to finish out the year. That being said, I'm not losing sleep over the way it was handled.

Suddenly, this book's title (http://www.amazon.com/Touched-Jerry-Sandusky-Story/dp/1582613575/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1320952526&sr=1-1#_) takes on a whole new meaning.

[BisonBacker]

No, his failure, and the others' failure, to act will open up the University to huge liabilities. "It's not in my job description" does not cut it. With what he was told, he had a duty to make sure that Sandusky was dealt with by the authorities. There had been reports of "inappropriate" conduct between Sandusky and other young boys for many years prior to 2002. For Paterno and the others who had been around Sandusky for many years not to see what was happening is like the Nazis saying they had 'no idea' what Hitler was doing to the Jews. They were complicit in allowing Sandusky to have continued access to PSU with the kids, and complicit in not having Sandusky confronted when action was ripe for taking. McQueey was an extremely credible witness. This is not a situation where an impressionable child might make allegations about what happened to them with people questioning whether the kid is making something up. This was a 28 year old graduate assistant who witnessed the event! What more is there to say?

EXACTLY RIGHT xsmileyclapx

[darell1976]

No, his failure, and the others' failure, to act will open up the University to huge liabilities. "It's not in my job description" does not cut it. With what he was told, he had a duty to make sure that Sandusky was dealt with by the authorities. There had been reports of "inappropriate" conduct between Sandusky and other young boys for many years prior to 2002. For Paterno and the others who had been around Sandusky for many years not to see what was happening is like the Nazis saying they had 'no idea' what Hitler was doing to the Jews. They were complicit in allowing Sandusky to have continued access to PSU with the kids, and complicit in not having Sandusky confronted when action was ripe for taking. McQueey was an extremely credible witness. This is not a situation where an impressionable child might make allegations about what happened to them with people questioning whether the kid is making something up. This was a 28 year old graduate assistant who witnessed the event! What more is there to say?

I agree!!!

[Franks Tanks]

Here's what Paterno should have done.

"Thanks for letting me know about this. Get in my car, we're going to the police. I'll sit with you while you are talking to them.".

I'll go out on a limb and say Paterno could have gotten a meeting with the police chief without an appointment.

I agree McQueary should also be fired. He wasn't some 18 year old equipment manager who walked in on that mess. He was a 27 year old man. Yet he did nothing.

I do think that given the years he spent there, Paterno deserved a face to face meeting instead of being fired over the phone. I wouldn't have had a huge problem if he had been allowed to finish out the year. That being said, I'm not losing sleep over the way it was handled.

Suddenly, this book's title (http://www.amazon.com/Touched-Jerry-Sandusky-Story/dp/1582613575/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1320952526&sr=1-1#_) takes on a whole new meaning.

McQueary met with the head of the Penn State campus police. I am astounded nobody knows this fact. What we don't know is what the hell happened next, and we need to find that out.

[BlueHenSinfonian]

McQueary met with the head of the Penn State campus police. I am astounded nobody knows this fact. What we don't know is what the hell happened next, and we need to find that out.

Thank you, this is what I have been trying to get across. Are people really saying that Paterno should have said 'I know better than the police' and gone on some rogue vigilante justice spree?

[GannonFan]

McQueary met with the head of the Penn State campus police. I am astounded nobody knows this fact. What we don't know is what the hell happened next, and we need to find that out.

No one is denying that - Schultz was in charge of the University police. Where McQueary is further damned (after seeing a boy get raped and just running away to tell his Dad) is that he knew he saw a kid raped, then saw the University do nothing about it, and he decided to stay with that University for the next 10 years, occassionally coming into contact with the rapist, who was still held in fairly high esteem by the University he was now working for. He was a coward when he ran away and a despicable human being for doing nothing about it for a decade while knowing the rapist had free access to boys just like the one he knew was raped.

[GannonFan]

Thank you, this is what I have been trying to get across. Are people really saying that Paterno should have said 'I know better than the police' and gone on some rogue vigilante justice spree?

If he knew that a boy was raped (assuming McQueary had the guts to actually tell him the details of what he saw and ran away from) then yes, it was Paterno's responsibility to make sure someone else heard McQueary's story - The University police aren't the only police presence in University Park.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

No one is denying that - Schultz was in charge of the University police. Where McQueary is further damned (after seeing a boy get raped and just running away to tell his Dad) is that he knew he saw a kid raped, then saw the University do nothing about it, and he decided to stay with that University for the next 10 years, occassionally coming into contact with the rapist, who was still held in fairly high esteem by the University he was now working for. He was a coward when he ran away and a despicable human being for doing nothing about it for a decade while knowing the rapist had free access to boys just like the one he knew was raped.

+1. But did the other assistants know about it, too? There's just way too much that's not known about everyone still there, what they knew, and when they knew it. That's why the game ought to be cancelled.

[Franks Tanks]

No one is denying that - Schultz was in charge of the University police. Where McQueary is further damned (after seeing a boy get raped and just running away to tell his Dad) is that he knew he saw a kid raped, then saw the University do nothing about it, and he decided to stay with that University for the next 10 years, occassionally coming into contact with the rapist, who was still held in fairly high esteem by the University he was now working for. He was a coward when he ran away and a despicable human being for doing nothing about it for a decade while knowing the rapist had free access to boys just like the one he knew was raped.

I agree 100%. It is impossible to understand why he didn't continue to press the issue after he saw nothing happen. I could understand how he thought it was reported to the correct people with Shultz invloved, but when nothing happened you have to wonder why nothing else was done.

[BisonBacker]

No one is denying that - Schultz was in charge of the University police. Where McQueary is further damned (after seeing a boy get raped and just running away to tell his Dad) is that he knew he saw a kid raped, then saw the University do nothing about it, and he decided to stay with that University for the next 10 years, occassionally coming into contact with the rapist, who was still held in fairly high esteem by the University he was now working for. He was a coward when he ran away and a despicable human being for doing nothing about it for a decade while knowing the rapist had free access to boys just like the one he knew was raped.
Winner Winner Chicken Dinner. McQueary should have had his A$$ fired to.

[TTUEagles]

Maybe others have alluded to this or outright written the same thing but, we're talking about Paterno being fired not arrested.
It's not NEARLY the same thing - but, like Hank W. Jr getting fired over his Hitler comments - not saying he should be arrested but, damn sure should be fired.
I agree that he shouldn't be allowed to continue - there's simply too much info. suggesting he allowed Sandusky to continue on at PSU as if nothing had happened..."Just don't bring children on campus anymore." HUH?

On a side note...If you saw what McQueary saw...how in the hell could you ever be around or look at Sandusky in the face ever again?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Read the report:

http://www.freep.com/assets/freep/pdf/C4181508116.PDF

Again, it is a systemic failure that involves a whole host of people. Was it McQueary's responsibility to go to Public Welfare and Human Services after the folks at his own school, and the foundation the perp was representing, did nothing? Probably, but McQueary was also in the worst position of everyone involved - a subordinate of JoePa, with the least "credibility" of anyone. Who were people going to believe in the end, some 27 year old grad assistant, or a former DC who was a big part of two Penn State championships?

JoePa was at a different level. He could have gone to bat for his assistant, and pushed the matter further, but did not. JoePa was in a real position of power.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Bob Ford agrees with me:

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/colleges/penn_state/20111110_Why_play_the_game_.html?c=0.2025319239223 109&posted=y&viewAll=y#comments


Surma, the chairman and chief executive officer of U.S. Steel, is a good man. He and his wife donated $5 million in 2010 to endow a dean's chair in the university's school of business. The other members of the board all seem to be solid, well-meaning men and women as well. What they have wrestled with this week has been difficult for them all, but the board is still in denial, still practicing damage control.

They missed the opportunity to prove this will be something more than business as usual. In silent honor to all the rape victims who suffered because the moral compass within the football program was broken, the stadium should be empty on Saturday.

Lock the gates and let Nebraska stay home. Forfeit the game. Write a check to the Cornhuskers to make up for whatever lost revenue they would be missing, either from the television broadcast or shared gate receipts. It would have been good practice. When the civil suits filed by victims that include Penn State as a defendant come to court, the school will be writing a lot of checks. Make sure you practice the zeros.

The board said it will form a commission to study what happened, to root out additional wrongdoing and to put measures in place that will attempt to prevent future "situations." Let's be very clear about this. The university should not be allowed to investigate the university. However well-meaning that investigation might be, the university cannot be trusted any longer. If the Governor has any sense, he will make that point and see to it that the investigating committee does not have any conflicting interest in the outcome.

What else? Ah, yes. The football game. The football game that is so important it must be played, even as people who were complicit in allowing the rape of children to continue are front and center as participants in the spectacle. Yes, that game.

If Penn State loses, as it should on football merit alone, it will be said that the distractions of the week were to blame. There might be some truth to that. But the sad fact is that the team, like its deposed coach, does not now seem to be as good as the record would indicate. In the toughest tests, the real tests of character, the football team appears destined to fail, too.

The board of trustees will have given the school its weekend worship service, though. There are all those reasons for the game to take place. In the end, however, echoing the most telling valedictory of the coach, with the benefit of hindsight, the school will wish it had done more.

[BisonBacker]

This whole damn sick story just gets worse.
Check this out and come to your own conclusion but just when I thought I had heard about as sick of a story as I could this comes out.

http://www.nesn.com/2011/11/jerry-sandusky-rumored-to-have-been-pimping-out-young-boys-to-rich-donors-says-mark-madden.html

[BisonBacker]

There is a special place in hell for these vermon.

If its true also than all of them not only should have been fired but they ought to face more criminal charges!

[darell1976]

Statement from Nebraska:
http://sports.omaha.com/2011/11/10/osborne-releases-statement-on-nebraska-penn-state-game/


We also appreciate that there is a student-led effort at Penn State to respectfully welcome Nebraska fans to Beaver Stadium and into the Big Ten Conference. We know that our fans will reciprocate and display good sportsmanship toward Penn State’s fans and players.”

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Protecting innocent children from a predator? Campus police, nowhere to be found.

Protecting Nebraska fans from unruly fans? Campus police all over that.

How ****ed up is this?

[darell1976]

Protecting innocent children from a predator? Campus police, nowhere to be found.

Protecting Nebraska fans from unruly fans? Campus police all over that.

How ****ed up is this?

Like I said before...football first, humanity second.

[ngineer]

While I support the BOT's decision as previously posted, I'm not sure cancelling this game or any subsequent game achieves anything. What it would do is punish the current football players who have nothing to do with this sorry affair, and that wouldn't be right, either. I would suggest that the games be played and that PSU donate a huge share of the whatever receipts/revenue it receives from the gates/TV and radio, etc. to an appropriate organization for helping abused children.

PS...Just heard McQueary will not be in the stadium Saturday after having received numerous threats. Why he is still on the staff is still mind-boggling.

[Cocky]

Should move the game

[OB55]

Not sure how the irony of all those corn hats and the like will be received in the Happy Valley this Saturday.

[darell1976]

This game could get ugly especially if Nebraska is pounding Penn State which could be a possibility if the players are not "in the game" mentally. I just hope its not a "10 cent beer night" type of game.

[HailSzczur]

This game could get ugly especially if Nebraska is pounding Penn State which could be a possibility if the players are not "in the game" mentally. I just hope its not a "10 cent beer night" type of game.

On the other hand, I would not be surprised either to see an absolutely possessed PSU team out there trying to salvage some bit of dignity for the University.

[darell1976]

cars.com just pulled its sponsorship from this game and next weeks PSU-Ohio State game. ESPN said a recruit just de-committed himself to Penn State. I think we will see more recruits go to another team.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

cars.com just pulled its sponsorship from this game and next weeks PSU-Ohio State game. ESPN said a recruit just de-committed himself to Penn State. I think we will see more recruits go to another team.

I still believe that Penn State is crazy to even think about playing this game. Postpone it if you have to, but for God's sakes don't play this weekend.

[Franks Tanks]

On the other hand, I would not be surprised either to see an absolutely possessed PSU team out there trying to salvage some bit of dignity for the University.

I really have no idea what to expect, and it can go either way. The players love Joe and Tom Bradley so they will be very fired up. One would assume that it was very difficult for them to prepare for this game as it was anything but a normal week. Nebraska can be walking into a buzz saw, or Penn State may self destruct due to the emotion of the day. It will be interesting to watch.

[Franks Tanks]

I still believe that Penn State is crazy to even think about playing this game. Postpone it if you have to, but for God's sakes don't play this weekend.

Do you think they shouldn't play out of respect for the victims, or because of potential crowd issues?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Do you think they shouldn't play out of respect for the victims, or because of potential crowd issues?

Respect for the victims - and the fact that it's an ongoing investigation that could expose other members of the coaching staff.

[Franks Tanks]

Respect for the victims - and the fact that it's an ongoing investigation that could expose other members of the coaching staff.

It is valid point

[dgtw]

Before you blast Penn State for playing this game, if it was millions of dollars coming out of your pocket, would you still cancel the game?

Don't forget there are a lot of people who have zero official connection to the school or the scandal who depend on home games to earn a living.

[darell1976]

Before you blast Penn State for playing this game, if it was millions of dollars coming out of your pocket, would you still cancel the game?

Don't forget there are a lot of people who have zero official connection to the school or the scandal who depend on home games to earn a living.

And like it was said before why punish Nebraska if the game was cancelled. They have nothing to do with this scandal, instead of cancelling the game just forfeit it.

[MSUDuo]

And like it was said before why punish Nebraska if the game was cancelled. They have nothing to do with this scandal, instead of cancelling the game just forfeit it.

What do the Penn State players have to do with the scandal? Why punish them by cancelling it?

[dgtw]

How is a forfeit different than a cancellation?

[MSUDuo]

I guess I associate cancel with postpone. That is how I took it. You don't play a forfeit but you can play a postponed game...

[HailSzczur]

Do you think they shouldn't play out of respect for the victims, or because of potential crowd issues?

I would hope crowds shouldn't be too much of an issue, that they got most of all that out of their systems when they flipped over news vans the other night. The impression I'm getting from my friends up in Happy Valley is that the campus is starting to realize whats happened, and that it should be more about the victims than Joe Pa.

[ngineer]

In sitting back and letting all of this soak in, it is clear to me that the entire culture of 'big time' football created the atmosphere where people felt they had to look the other way rather than risk damaging "The Program" and all the money it pulls in. The 'bottom line' is 'the bottom line'. Until 'big time' football (and basketball) is torn down to where collegiate athletics should be, problems, such as these will always be with us. As much as the media 'cluck clucks' about this, it is they who have exacerbated the pressure with all the money thrown at the NCAA and the conferences. Just watching MAC games on TUESDAY nights makes you realize that the welfare of the players as students is meaningless. The TV money "compels" the MAC to pay games in the middle of class week. Penn State's program may be damaged forever.