Lafayette To Offeer Football Scholarships?????

[carney2]

A "usually reliable source" has been saying for about a week that a big announcement was coming at Lafayette. Many - including me - have not been taking him seriously. He now says that tomorrow (11/10) Lafayette's President, Dan Weiss, will announce to the faculty that beginning with "next year's recruiting class," Lafayette will offer football scholarships at a level of 50.

Seeing is believing, so I am setting my alarm clock for Thursday, November 10th. Stay tuned.

[Mr. C]

That would be great news. Who else in the Patriot League would be following suit?

[Franks Tanks]

A "usually reliable source" has been saying for about a week that a big announcement was coming at Lafayette. Many - including me - have not been taking him seriously. He now says that tomorrow (11/10) Lafayette's President, Dan Weiss, will announce to the faculty that beginning with "next year's recruiting class," Lafayette will offer football scholarships at a level of 50.

Seeing is believing, so I am setting my alarm clock for Thursday, November 10th. Stay tuned.

So if this does happen, will it only be announced to the faculty or the press as well.

[superman7515]

And of course, that should mean they are going the way of Fordham and unable to compete for the PL championship or AQ.

[DFW HOYA]

That would be great news. Who else in the Patriot League would be following suit?

Well, does that mean they'll be declaring another associate member ineligible or something?

See what happens when you have one good year... xrolleyesx

[alvinkayak6]

Patriot League 2.0 -- We're getting an upgrade people!

[danefan]

If the PL ends up with less than 6 teams eligible to win the conference does it lose its AQ?

[Franks Tanks]

There is no way Lafayette offers scholarships without the approval of the PL. I still have my doubts this will happen, but we will find out soon enough I guess.

[Pards Rule]

OMG! A lot of news coming from the Keystone State tonight!

[Go...gate]

If Weiss does not want anyone to notice, he picked the right time.

[Pards Rule]

Will the announcement be: IF the PL decides to allow, we will participate?

[DFW HOYA]

If the PL ends up with less than 6 teams eligible to win the conference does it lose its AQ?

A conference needs six members to maintain the bid. However, anything less than five full members, the PL bylaws says the league will no longer sponsor a championship, and the AQ is dropped.

If there is a second school going the "ineligible but on the schedule" route, the bid would be in danger and likely the conference would reexamine whether to continue sponsoring a championship or just send the seven on their way to chart its own courses.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

A "usually reliable source" has been saying for about a week that a big announcement was coming at Lafayette. Many - including me - have not been taking him seriously. He now says that tomorrow (11/10) Lafayette's President, Dan Weiss, will announce to the faculty that beginning with "next year's recruiting class," Lafayette will offer football scholarships at a level of 50.

Seeing is believing, so I am setting my alarm clock for Thursday, November 10th. Stay tuned.

I'm having a hard time believing this. I don't care how reliable the posters are over there.


The same source tells me that last years presidents vote to delay the vote on scholarships was unanimous as most schools needed more time to implement them.

This paragraph runs counter to my understanding of the issue. As does the thought that Weiss will perform a complete volte-face after becoming the face and the voice of not having scholarships. Last week, Weiss was in the back pocket of the "faculty", and this week, he's putting his neck out so far he could be mistaken for a giraffe?

[carney2]

I'm just passing on what's on the Lafayette board. Given all that has preceded, you have to agree with Franks Tanks and call this a rumor for the time being.

IF true however, I think talk of who is eligible and who is not is moot. This would be the honest to goodness crack in the universe that would end all of the "are we or aren't we" talk. At a minimum you would see Colgate and Lehigh signing up before the snow gets too high. The Patriot league offices and officers in Center Valley, PA would be the tail of this dog.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

A conference needs six members to maintain the bid. However, anything less than five full members, the PL bylaws says the league will no longer sponsor a championship, and the AQ is dropped.

If there is a second school going the "ineligible but on the schedule" route, the bid would be in danger and likely the conference would reexamine whether to continue sponsoring a championship or just send the seven on their way to chart its own courses.

This also is an excellent point. Last winter, Weiss before the meeting made his stance on scholarships clear - he didn't want them, implying at a bare minimum that the league might fall apart if they were implemented. Now, though, he's willing to offer scholarships and - theoretically - break the league apart only a scant year later?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I'm just passing on what's on the Lafayette board. Given all that has preceded, you have to agree with Franks Tanks and call this a rumor for the time being.

IF true however, I think talk of who is eligible and who is not is moot. This would be the honest to goodness crack in the universe that would end all of the "are we or aren't we" talk. At a minimum you would see Colgate and Lehigh signing up before the snow gets too high. The Patriot league offices and officers in Center Valley, PA would be the tail of this dog.

Agreed. If true, there's no way this swings back the other direction.

[carney2]

I'm having a hard time believing this. I don't care how reliable the posters are over there.



This paragraph runs counter to my understanding of the issue. As does the thought that Weiss will perform a complete volte-face after becoming the face and the voice of not having scholarships. Last week, Weiss was in the back pocket of the "faculty", and this week, he's putting his neck out so far he could be mistaken for a giraffe?

No one - and I mean absolutely no one - will be more stunned than yours truly.

By the way, the same post states that last December's vote to kick the can down the road on scholarships was unanimous, as all schools needed more time to implement.

[MR. CHICKEN]

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I'm having a hard time believing this. I don't care how reliable the posters are over there.



This paragraph runs counter to my understanding of the issue. As does the thought that Weiss will perform a complete volte-face after becoming the face and the voice of not having scholarships. Last week, Weiss was in the back pocket of the "faculty", and this week, he's putting his neck out so far he could be mistaken for a giraffe?

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[bluehenbillk]

I've always laughed at this myth. Does ANYONE here actually believe that when you watch a PL team play that those kids families are forking out $40K a year to send their kids there???

[Franks Tanks]

I've always laughed at this myth. Does ANYONE here actually believe that when you watch a PL team play that those kids families are forking out $40K a year to send their kids there???

A small portion are, but most are not. When I was in school the tuition was in the high 20's. A typical middle class football player paid something like 7-10k per year, and the rest was taken care of through need based aid. 20k plus per year in finanical aid was extremely significant, but still not a full ride which of course hurts our chances at getting a lot of players. The bottom line is that PL schools spend a ton on financial aid to football players, but we may not be allocating those resources in the best way.

[carney2]

I've always laughed at this myth. Does ANYONE here actually believe that when you watch a PL team play that those kids families are forking out $40K a year to send their kids there???

No myths involved. Do you not understand the term "equivalency?"

Oh yeah, "$40K" is way out of date.

[CFBfan]

No myths involved. Do you not understand the term "equivalency?"

Oh yeah, "$40K" is way out of date.

I wish that I was ONLY paying $40k for my kid (who by the way is a 3yr starter not a "backup")

[DFW HOYA]

I've always laughed at this myth. Does ANYONE here actually believe that when you watch a PL team play that those kids families are forking out $40K a year to send their kids there???

You need to visit Multi-Sport Field more often.

[Bogus Megapardus]

I'll believe this when I see it - although our reliable Lafayette Board source insists that it's true.

Couple points - our source also says that ALL PL members voted against scholarships last time. They wanted more time. Lafayette would never, ever "go rouge" in the way of Fordham. If there is a revelation by the prez to the Pard faculty, it will be with the full knowledge and approval of The Commish. While it might not be a "public announcement," no one seriously could expect such an announcement to the faculty to remain a secret. I suspect that some faculty members will go howling to their anti-athlete trade journals and the like.

I also might speculate that Lafayette/Dr. Weiss might be allowed the privilege of first announcing the general availability of PL football scholarship. This would be in compensation for Weiss sticking his giraffe-like neck out the last time - and nearly having been decapitated.

[RichH2]

I find it hard to fathom. I would believe that he would announce LC going up to 5o equivalencies to be more competitive. Merit aid prior to Dec PL meeting?? Well I guess we'll see tomorrow. Is Friday April,1?

[Bogus Megapardus]

I find it hard to fathom. I would believe that he would announce LC going up to 50 equivalencies to be more competitive. Merit aid prior to Dec PL meeting?? Well I guess we'll see tomorrow. Is Friday April,1?

This makes the most sense, Rich.

[Franks Tanks]

I find it hard to fathom. I would believe that he would announce LC going up to 5o equivalencies to be more competitive. Merit aid prior to Dec PL meeting?? Well I guess we'll see tomorrow. Is Friday April,1?

That would be an increase of 5 or 6 equivalencies. Not something a college President should be overly concered about, and not important enough to make an announcement. But well we never know.

[Bogus Megapardus]

They would be an increase in 5 or 6 equivalencies. Not something a college President should be overly concered about, and not important enough to make an announcement. But well we never know.

This is Lafayette, though. The prez can't sneeze without faculty approval.

[MplsBison]

PL schools already give scholarships to football players. That's why the NCAA classifies them having scholarship equivalencies above zero.

They lie and try to make people think it's just need based aid.

The truth is that only football players can qualify for the aid and it's not loans they're providing to the players, thus: scholarships.


The only difference between a Lehigh football scholarship and a Villanova football scholarship is that the head coach at Lehigh does not get to decide how much player X's scholarship will be. It's based on need.


So really all Lafayette would be doing is giving the head coach the ability to assign the dollar amount of each player's scholarship irregardless of that player's financial need.


That's the correct way, ethically, morally and whatever way you can think of.

[RichH2]

That would be an increase of 5 or 6 equivalencies. Not something a college President should be overly concered about, and not important enough to make an announcement. But well we never know.

And still not at the over 60 level of gate and Lehigh. So neither scenario very compelling. Perhaps as someone opined he is the lead dog for the Dec PL announcement and has to tell LC faculty before finals and Christmas break. Gee,aint this just more fun in the endless threads on merit aid in the PL.

[ColgateTD]

Could Weiss be announcing he's leaving and Joe Pa is taking over the reins of the 'Pards' football program :)

[RichH2]

Geez,mpls, your opinion of our discussion is irrelevant . Why dont you take your soapbox to a different conference. Socon and NEC need some of your bizarre ramblings

[Bogus Megapardus]

So really all Lafayette would be doing is giving the head coach the ability to assign the dollar amount of each player's scholarship irregardless of that player's financial need.


I doubt it would be left entirely to the coach's decision. In a perfect world, all PL schools would provide equal, income-blind opportunity to all students. In any event, all PL recruits have to be cleared by the PL league office. I doubt that would change.

Merit-based aid simply would recognize the present reality that students are offered admission based on athletic talent. They'll still have to possess the academic talent, but they'll no longer have to go through the parental income analysis to obtain the aid.

[CFBfan]

PL schools already give scholarships to football players. That's why the NCAA classifies them having scholarship equivalencies above zero.

They lie and try to make people think it's just need based aid.

The truth is that only football players can qualify for the aid and it's not loans they're providing to the players, thus: scholarships.


The only difference between a Lehigh football scholarship and a Villanova football scholarship is that the head coach at Lehigh does not get to decide how much player X's scholarship will be. It's based on need.

So really all Lafayette would be doing is giving the head coach the ability to assign the dollar amount of each player's scholarship irregardless of that player's financial need.


That's the correct way, ethically, morally and whatever way you can think of.

Isn't that the point.....if you don't qualify for financial aid you get NO Money!!!! a great player who's parent(s) make a decent income can NOT get money from the FOOTBALL program!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[DFW HOYA]

I doubt it would be left entirely to the coach's decision. In a perfect world, all PL schools would provide equal, income-blind opportunity to all students. In any event, all PL recruits have to be cleared by the PL league office. I doubt that would change.


I've honestly never understood this. Why should the PL office have effective veto power over individual schools and their own admissions decisions? It comes down to: "At the Patriot League, we don't trust our member schools."

[Pard4Life]

I doubt it would be left entirely to the coach's decision. In a perfect world, all PL schools would provide equal, income-blind opportunity to all students. In any event, all PL recruits have to be cleared by the PL league office. I doubt that would change.

Merit-based aid simply would recognize the present reality that students are offered admission based on athletic talent. They'll still have to possess the academic talent, but they'll no longer have to go through the parental income analysis to obtain the aid.

The schools have the sole power to determine admission. The PL may support a framework for an academic admissions index but it's up to each school to set the criteria. Some of Lehigh's football and basketball players over the years certainly reinforce the institutional control notion.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Could Weiss be announcing he's leaving and Joe Pa is taking over the reins of the 'Pards' football program :)

JoePa to Brown, I hope. That's his alma mater.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Some of Lehigh's football and basketball players over the years certainly reinforce the institutional control notion.

Um, care to elaborate with facts, instead of taking an unsubstantiated swipe?

[Bogus Megapardus]

I've honestly never understood this. Why should the PL office have effective veto power over individual schools and their own admissions decisions? It comes down to: "At the Patriot League, we don't trust our member schools."

Because most PL schools are not populous enough to sustain large ratios of admissions below institutional benchmarks. If one buys in to the notion of league-wide academic standards (as I certainly do) the central clearinghouse is essential.

[Bogus Megapardus]

an unsubstantiated swipe

There will be plenty of those next week! xeekx

[van]

There will be plenty of those next week! xeekx

If they come from the Easton boys, they will all be unsubstantiated!

[Fordham]

I guess now that there's a perception that going scholarship actually reduces a program's competitiveness Weiss is now a big proponent!

You're welcome, fellas.

:D

[van]

I guess now that there's a perception that going scholarship actually reduces a program's competitiveness Weiss is now a big proponent!

You're welcome, fellas.

:D

Seems reasonable for a Lafayette guy to come to that conclusion.

[Ken_Z]

I guess now that there's a perception that going scholarship actually reduces a program's competitiveness Weiss is now a big proponent!

You're welcome, fellas.

:D

if that's what's going on, please don't screw it up by beating Bucknell this week.

[MplsBison]

I doubt it would be left entirely to the coach's decision. In a perfect world, all PL schools would provide equal, income-blind opportunity to all students. In any event, all PL recruits have to be cleared by the PL league office. I doubt that would change.

Merit-based aid simply would recognize the present reality that students are offered admission based on athletic talent. They'll still have to possess the academic talent, but they'll no longer have to go through the parental income analysis to obtain the aid.

Still have to possess enough academic talent to survive with the required 2.0 gpa (or whatever the NCAA requires), you mean. There are football players at all PL schools right now who wouldn't have been admitted as regular students.

It may not be exactly left to one man's decision, but certainly 100% up to the coaching staff and perhaps some oversight from the athletic director. No one else at the school will or should have any say in the aid that the athletic department gives.

[MplsBison]

Because most PL schools are not populous enough to sustain large ratios of admissions below institutional benchmarks. If one buys in to the notion of league-wide academic standards (as I certainly do) the central clearinghouse is essential.

In other words, "At the Patriot League, we don't trust our member schools to make sure they don't accidentally admit a bunch of dumb athletes and end up with a public school type of admissions profile, because obviously they wouldn't have considered that before admitting them".

[Go...gate]

Sounds like the rumor is still a rumor....

[ngineer]

Still have to possess enough academic talent to survive with the required 2.0 gpa (or whatever the NCAA requires), you mean. There are football players at all PL schools right now who wouldn't have been admitted as regular students.

It may not be exactly left to one man's decision, but certainly 100% up to the coaching staff and perhaps some oversight from the athletic director. No one else at the school will or should have any say in the aid that the athletic department gives.

You're talking out the wrong orafice. The financial aid package offered to a student at Lehigh comes from the Financial Aid office. Coaches may have 'wants', but the decision is made by others. Point in fact is that numerous times we've offered aid packages to prospective players who should qualify for the same aid at another school, yet gets a larger grant from the other school. Nate Eachus stated he was offered a better financial aid package than either Lehigh or Lafayette. If Coen, himself, were doling out the bucks, you can better believe he would have done more. The Financial Aid office establishes the line on each package based upon their formula. If we were to go to merit scholarships, then this whole 'formula' business is out the window, and everyone is on equal footing, limited only by the cost to attend each school and how many scholarships can be offered.

[Ivytalk]

Lafayette would never, ever "go rouge" in the way of Fordham.

No. Lafayette would stop with pancake makeup!:pxcoolx

[ngineer]

No. Lafayette would stop with pancake makeup!:pxcoolx

They would also go with fishnet stocking look. (;-)

[RichH2]

Cross dressing at Parville would surely fit in with their new gender studies program. Perhaps it will become mandatory for all male students, altho that would not be a major change from the current styles at lafayette

[Doc QB]

[/B] The financial aid package offered to a student at Lehigh comes from the Financial Aid office. Coaches may have 'wants', but the decision is made by others. Point in fact is that numerous times we've offered aid packages to prospective players who should qualify for the same aid at another school, yet gets a larger grant from the other school. Nate Eachus stated he was offered a better financial aid package than either Lehigh or Lafayette. If Coen, himself, were doling out the bucks, you can better believe he would have done more. The Financial Aid office establishes the line on each package based upon their formula. If we were to go to merit scholarships, then this whole 'formula' business is out the window, and everyone is on equal footing, limited only by the cost to attend each school and how many scholarships can be offered.

Engineer, unforunately, this is NOT true. The financial aid office gives the forms out (FAFSA I believe?). The formula is the formula, no one disputes that. What is entirely wrong about the above is that the coaching staff, based on what each recruit's demonstrated need is, doles out the dollars based on that number of aid dollars qualified for and what they (the coaches) want to give him in outright grant money (yes, scholarship, because if you quit the team, it is gone, and you go back into the school's general aid population and likely more loans). In my day, on the forms, it was an "Alumni Scholarship" right on the award letter. Yes, that award letter came from the financial aid office, but the money came from the athletic department.

Not all kids got their entitled aid in all grant form, although most did, and they were the guys expected to contribute on the field. Many guys played four years, sat on bench, because they did not want the crappier aid from the gen pop pool. Many guys say the dollar amount differed among PL and Ivy offers.

In Eachus's case, he either lied saying that about the aid number (because he had not better reason to go to Colgate he could articulate at the time) or told the truth because maybe 'Gate and Biddle gave him all grant money for his demonstrated need and Coen and Tavani did not. Not sure which is true, but either situation plausible/possible. He may not have wanted to go to LU at the time given their marginal successes at the time and Colgate's was better (and in hindsite, given the last two years of his career...would he question that decision? another thread entirely).

The demonstrated need from the FAFSA form and how coaches generate the priority of their "wish lists" does create some competition recruiting. But the current situation today is different that when I played (allowed 13 full equiv a year and 57 total circa '91) to what you may have experienced around late '60's (as I recall, you and my father may have been contemporaries) when all aid was Financial Aid office dollars. The same reason is why Georgetown has historically struggled, because they have 75% of their team on general population financial aid, and the few with the athletic grants...well, they only go for about $2500-5000 a year (info direct from former player/coach).

[MplsBison]

Thanks for setting it straight doc. Doesn't surprise me that a lot of these PL posters are old guys who played back in the 50's and 60's and think the PL should forever be just like when they played.


"Scholarships" in the PL just means the coaches now have full control over how many grants to give each player and they don't have to limit it based on some arbitrary criteria like how much money their parents earned.

[MplsBison]

[/B]

You're talking out the wrong orafice. The financial aid package offered to a student at Lehigh comes from the Financial Aid office. Coaches may have 'wants', but the decision is made by others. Point in fact is that numerous times we've offered aid packages to prospective players who should qualify for the same aid at another school, yet gets a larger grant from the other school. Nate Eachus stated he was offered a better financial aid package than either Lehigh or Lafayette. If Coen, himself, were doling out the bucks, you can better believe he would have done more. The Financial Aid office establishes the line on each package based upon their formula. If we were to go to merit scholarships, then this whole 'formula' business is out the window, and everyone is on equal footing, limited only by the cost to attend each school and how many scholarships can be offered.

And for the record, the post you quoted was me saying how it's going to be, not how it is currently. Of course, that was completely obvious and you were being obtuse.

[heath]

Would it be possible for a PL recruit to be offered a full ride based upon his fafsa,assuming that room and board may not be included,or can a really poor kid not pay a dime ?

[heath]

each PL school has a dollar amount to work with prior to recruiting.......the more numbers you recruit the less you can offer per kid, unless most parents of the recruits are wealthy,then you can focus the majority of the aid to the needy.Thats why you see a large amount of PL rosters filled with private school kids and fewer public school kids.

[Engineer86]

Isn't that the point.....if you don't qualify for financial aid you get NO Money!!!! a great player who's parent(s) make a decent income can NOT get money from the FOOTBALL program!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Exactly. Their are talented players that just won't go there cause the options are free vs. $50K because mom and dad make to much money

[Franks Tanks]

Would it be possible for a PL recruit to be offered a full ride based upon his fafsa,assuming that room and board may not be included,or can a really poor kid not pay a dime ?

Yes, with room and board included.

[heath]

Yes, with room and board included.

Would you the as a PL coach go for quality or quantity,if 2 O linemen were 10% of the budget and just so-so and 1 O lineman that was much better but parents not as wealthy as the other 2,do you go with 2 so-so recruits or 1 better recruit if they "cost" the same towards aid?

[Seawolf97]

So we try on Friday for the Big Announcement ?xcoffeex

[Franks Tanks]

Would you the as a PL coach go for quality or quantity,if 2 O linemen were 10% of the budget and just so-so and 1 O lineman that was much better but parents not as wealthy as the other 2,do you go with 2 so-so recruits or 1 better recruit if they "cost" the same towards aid?

Good question-I think they go for quality first when possible as there are less of those players available for us. The so-so players with less need would be more readily available, and easier to find guys like that to fill out a roster.

[ngineer]

And for the record, the post you quoted was me saying how it's going to be, not how it is currently. Of course, that was completely obvious and you were being obtuse.


Not really. There's just one of me. But I did go back and re-read your post, through my bifocals, and you are correct that you were speaking of the future, should the scholarships go through, and I was talking about the current state of affairs. Note, I did say that in the last sentence. But I do apologize for misreading the tense of your statement.

[MplsBison]

Exactly. Their are talented players that just won't go there cause the options are free vs. $50K because mom and dad make to much money

The need-based athletic scholarship policy of the PL is exactly wrong.

Even if your parents earned $10million last year, you still deserve a full scholarship if you're the best player on the team!!

I can't see how anyone could think that is not self-evidently fair and ethical. Can't see it for the life of me.

[MplsBison]

Not really. There's just one of me. But I did go back and re-read your post, through my bifocals, and you are correct that you were speaking of the future, should the scholarships go through, and I was talking about the current state of affairs. Note, I did say that in the last sentence. But I do apologize for misreading the tense of your statement.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/obtuse

2b

[danefan]

So was the rumor mill correct? Or is Lafayette still at status quo?

I can't get through all of these off-topic posts to find out.

[Franks Tanks]

So was the rumor mill correct? Or is Lafayette still at status quo?

I can't get through all of these off-topic posts to find out.

No new information as expected. The "source" said Weiss would announce something at a faculty meeting, but the source has not verified what, if anything, was said.

[Pard4Life]

There will be no announcement until at least the PL Presidents meeting in June or December if we're lucky.

[carney2]

So was the rumor mill correct? Or is Lafayette still at status quo?

I can't get through all of these off-topic posts to find out.

The Star Chamber that is the Lafayette College administration continues on. At the moment we know this:

There has been no "big announcement."

We also suspect this:

Any movement of the type mentioned in this thread would be a 180 degree turnaround, so this whole rumor continues highly suspect.

Even so, there continues to be smoke where we were hoping for flames. Weiss addressed the faculty senate yesterday (and no one has any idea what was said or what, if anything, it means) and he is meeting with the athletic department today. Of course, If Weiss were to use the men's room in Bourger because it was handy in his meanderings around campus, some of us might be reading Ollie Stone type conclusions into it.

P4L is right. Whether this is a 10 alarm fire or a false alarm, you won't see anything in your morning newspaper. This is Lafayette where the Dick Cheney School of Communications is regarded very highly. Due process on College Hill requires involvement by the Board of Trustees and, whatever smoke there is, it ain't coming from that source just yet.

Still, all of this reminds me that Paul Reinhard, the Lafayette beat writer for the Allentown Morning Call, and a man with decent inside information, made a one time comment about a month ago that his information leads him to believe that the whole Patriot League scholarship issue will come to a head this year, rather than in 2012 as "scheduled."

[Bogus Megapardus]

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/6082/lafayettecharlie.png

[RichH2]

Guess my speculation that this was preliminary to Dec meeting could be correct. Leaves open what the heck was said.xmadx I think Reinhard correct that the PL meeting in Dec may end the "kick the can down the road " agony. Now we can have some more endless threads on the topic. Gives MplsBison something to do.xrolleyesx

[danefan]

Does Lehigh doing very well in the playoffs hurt the pro-scholarship argument?

[Bogus Megapardus]

Does Lehigh doing very well in the playoffs hurt the pro-scholarship argument?

Not really. There is a general notion that the Patriot, top to bottom, could become consistently competitive with the CAA and SoCon with scholarships. That's where I think most would like to be. Fordham's circumstances do more harm, I think.

[RichH2]

It may. As this soap opera has been dragging on for 4 yrs now, I dont think it will be a determining factor. For that matter, PL record vs IL this year may carry more weight with the academics?

[Ken_Z]

i still maintain that the reason scholarships will ultimately be approved is because it will preserve and strengthen the league as a whole. simply being more competitive in FCS football would not be sufficient justification for the Presidents. preserving and then expanding the league and strengthening the brand is of sufficient value.

[Bogus Megapardus]

i still maintain that the reason scholarships will ultimately be approved is because it will preserve and strengthen the league as a whole. simply being more competitive in FCS football would not be sufficient justification for the Presidents. preserving and then expanding the league and strengthening the brand is of sufficient value.

All other sports would experience residual effects.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/6082/lafayettecharlie.png

I guarantee I will be using this pic somewhere in the future. xlolx xlolx xlolx

Speaking of which, Bogie, got a Weiss/Giraffe one ready? :D

[Bogus Megapardus]

I guarantee I will be using this pic somewhere in the future.

Speaking of which, Bogie, got a Weiss/Giraffe one ready?

LFN - I stole the cartoon idea shamelessly from the great Drew Sheneman of the Star-Ledger (it was in a Rutgers context). Be sure to give credit where it's due. As for a Dan Weiss Giraffe, I'll have to get to work.

[DFW HOYA]

i still maintain that the reason scholarships will ultimately be approved is because it will preserve and strengthen the league as a whole. simply being more competitive in FCS football would not be sufficient justification for the Presidents. preserving and then expanding the league and strengthening the brand is of sufficient value.

The assumption in that argument is: "expanding the league". As long as the Ivy Index acts as a visible hindrance to recruiting, I don't see any schools (or their coaches) getting in line.

Even approving the matter doesn't solve the issue of the associate members. Fordham may be out the door already. Georgetown has no plans for football scholarships in its capital campaign and there is no groundswell to add them; frankly, there are far greater needs in the program to deal with right now. If the presidents tell Georgetown it's "scholarships or out", Georgetown could play an independent schedule and stilll schedule half the PL, three Ivies, and a mix of NEC and PFL teams out of conference.

The PL cannot survive as a five team league in any such scenario.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Speaking of which, Bogie, got a Weiss/Giraffe one ready?

Way too much time on my hands.


http://img851.imageshack.us/img851/9961/getahead480.png

[MplsBison]

The assumption in that argument is: "expanding the league". As long as the Ivy Index acts as a visible hindrance to recruiting, I don't see any schools (or their coaches) getting in line.

Even approving the matter doesn't solve the issue of the associate members. Fordham may be out the door already. Georgetown has no plans for football scholarships in its capital campaign and there is no groundswell to add them; frankly, there are far greater needs in the program to deal with right now. If the presidents tell Georgetown it's "scholarships or out", Georgetown could play an independent schedule and stilll schedule half the PL, three Ivies, and a mix of NEC and PFL teams out of conference.

The PL cannot survive as a five team league in any such scenario.

So give your 12 scholarship equivalencies, or whatever the number is, as athletic scholarships instead of need-based scholarships.

No difference to the bottom line. It's a change in ideology only and an ideology that G-town openly embraces with the Big East sports.


It's not like the PL is going to require any kind of scholarship minimum.

[MplsBison]

Guess my speculation that this was preliminary to Dec meeting could be correct. Leaves open what the heck was said.xmadx I think Reinhard correct that the PL meeting in Dec may end the "kick the can down the road " agony. Now we can have some more endless threads on the topic. Gives MplsBison something to do.xrolleyesx

I will have your tears when the "need-based scholarships is really the same thing as need based institutional aid" mythology dies.

They'll make for a delicious celebration.

[bison137]

Even if your parents earned $10million last year, you still deserve a full scholarship if you're the best player on the team!!

I can't see how anyone could think that is not self-evidently fair and ethical. Can't see it for the life of me.


That's because you are a clueless moron.

[MplsBison]

That's because you are a clueless moron.

You're trolling. You can't sit there with a straight face and say the best player on a team that gives 50+ full scholarships a year does not deserve a full scholarship because of his parents.

[DFW HOYA]

So give your 12 scholarship equivalencies, or whatever the number is, as athletic scholarships instead of need-based scholarships.
No difference to the bottom line. It's a change in ideology only and an ideology that G-town openly embraces with the Big East sports.It's not like the PL is going to require any kind of scholarship minimum.

Except Georgetown doesn't give out aid as everyone else does. See post #52 above.

[RichH2]

i still maintain that the reason scholarships will ultimately be approved is because it will preserve and strengthen the league as a whole. simply being more competitive in FCS football would not be sufficient justification for the Presidents. preserving and then expanding the league and strengthening the brand is of sufficient value.

Z this is precisely the most important factor for PL presidents weighing in favor of Merit aid. Across the board in PL scholarship recruits have a better academic track record. Recruiting better athletes who are also better students is a win win situation one would think

[ngineer]

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/obtuse

2b

You missed my pun.

[MplsBison]

Except Georgetown doesn't give out aid as everyone else does. See post #52 above.

The players who won't receive a scholarship are still just as able to qualify for and receive institutional aid via filling out and submitting a FAFSA (or qualifying for other institutional scholarships/grants/whatever). The NCAA doesn't care about that, just so long as it's legit. They only care about money given to football players from the school because they play football that regular students can't qualify for. That's it.

So the situation now: 75% of Gtown fball players receiving non-athletic aid and 25% receiving need-based athletic aid, will transform into 75% receiving non-athletic aid and 25% receiving football scholarships.

[Engineer86]

That's because you are a clueless moron.

If you really believe this and don't see his point, then you must be completely against merit based aid. This is the football team not the debate team. If the money is for football, then why should be based on need. All patriot league teams have plenty of money to give all the need money they want.

[MplsBison]

If you really believe this and don't see his point, then you must be completely against merit based aid. This is the football team not the debate team. If the money is for football, then why should be based on need. All patriot league teams have plenty of money to give all the need money they want.

That's the point though, there are still a few old, rouge elements in the PL that will try to fight it because of this ideology.

Luckily enough for us, they're old or dead.