Here's a few Questions

[BisonBacker]

I always see talk about different schools or more appropriately their fans talking about moving to FBS. So here's a few questions and I know this is all going to be nothing more than opinion and I'm also sure it's been hashed over time and time again. So lets do it one more time. Of all the FCS schools who would you say is a realistic candidate to move up? Next what kind of financial commitment over what your current athletic budget is would said school have to come up with? Last do you think (insert school here) will make that move in the next 5 years?

So with all those questions and since I'm a fan of NDSU I'll throw out my xtwocentsx

I think NDSU could make the move but not in the next 5 years. Not sure they ever will I think that would depend on the landscape of FCS football. As far as additional monies I would say they would have to come up with an additional 2-4 mill on the athletic budget to realisticly consider it and that may be low. Bigger question for NDSU would be where would they go? I don't see a natural fit FBS wise at least not at this time. Oh and they would have to fix that eyesore which is the BSA. I know it's in the works but I'm not sure the current proposal/fix really is going to be much of an improvement but that's another topic.

[ASUTodd]

Do all Bison fans post just to see themselves post?

[AppAlum2003]

Do all Bison fans post just to see themselves post?

At this point in the year they've already "hunkered down" for the winter. They have no choice but to sit at their computers wrapped in blankets, posting on AGS.

[BisonBacker]

Do all Bison fans post just to see themselves post?
I was just asking. The GSU/ASU to the sunbelt prompted the question. Do All ASU fans act holier than thou or do they just like to see themselves post?

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Lighten up guys. This is a message board, why try to play it off like you are too busy/great/awesome/cool to post or even read them. I live in Ohio and you better believe I would head back North before I ever went further south. The Carolinas aren't really the cat's pajamas.

Getting this back to the subject. I'm not sure FBS is all that great outside the big conferences. I live in the land of Ohio State and they consider the MAC to be about the same as FCS so who cares? The smaller conferences only have regional appeal anyway, just like FCS. My guess is in the near future Montana will probably make the jump only because the Mountain West will need some members now that Boise State is probably going to the Big East. BSU is a very good example of a smaller school trying to make it in FBS, even with their success they constantly struggle for legitimacy at the end of the year.

[darell1976]

I don't want UND to move up until there is a playoff system in the FBS, and since they are stuck in the Alerus at least for another 8 years on their lease the FBS may look a lot different then we may see a 3 tier DI system. The BCS (Big 10, SEC, etc. so they can keep their bowls), FBS (everyone else-playoff system enacted), and FCS the rest of the DI teams. As for a conference UND is a member of the WAC in women's swimming, so that might give them a foot in the door (not counting on it), but its a start. We are also members of the MW Swimming conference (so maybe a foot in the door there too). But long ways off and so its FCS for at least a minimum 10-15 years.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

I don't want UND to move up until there is a playoff system in the FBS, and since they are stuck in the Alerus at least for another 8 years on their lease the FBS may look a lot different then we may see a 3 tier DI system. The BCS (Big 10, SEC, etc. so they can keep their bowls), FBS (everyone else-playoff system enacted), and FCS the rest of the DI teams. As for a conference UND is a member of the WAC in women's swimming, so that might give them a foot in the door (not counting on it), but its a start. We are also members of the MW Swimming conference (so maybe a foot in the door there too). But long ways off and so its FCS for at least a minimum 10-15 years.

UND would have to build a 2nd We-Got-One-Too-Dome to even meet the 15,000 minimum capacity.

[darell1976]

UND would have to build a 2nd We-Got-One-Too-Dome to even meet the 15,000 minimum capacity.

The "plan" which was thrown around is once we leave the Alerus we would go into an upgraded Memorial Stadium. It did hold 10,000 before the Alerus opened in 2001 now only the west side stands remain and plans were to move the stadium instead of north-south to a east west horseshoe shaped stadium and capacity around 20K or so. But if the FBS combines lower level teams with upper level FCS teams that minimum attendance requirement may go away. A lot can happen before the next decade.

Plus with Eastern Michigan averaging what 4,000 they might as well get rid of the requirement.

[Eaglesrus]

I was just asking. The GSU/ASU to the sunbelt prompted the question. Do All ASU fans act holier than thou or do they just like to see themselves post?

I think it's a combination of the two. :p

Personally, I think GA Southern would have to at least double it's athletic budget in order to seriously consider a move, and I have no idea where that kind of money will come from. On the other hand, maybe others know something I don't, I'm certainly not all that well plugged in.

[TheBisonator]

I think it's a combination of the two. :p

Personally, I think GA Southern would have to at least double it's athletic budget in order to seriously consider a move, and I have no idea where that kind of money will come from. On the other hand, maybe others know something I don't, I'm certainly not all that well plugged in.

Here's something strange:

2010-11 Athletic Budgets:

NDSU - $15,351,245
GSU - $11,207,617

I didn't realize GSU was so low. I always figured you in the 15-16 mill range.

We would both still need to double or almost double those figures.

[jmufan999]

The Carolinas aren't really the cat's pajamas.

Is this really an expression?

[TheBisonator]

Here are the 2011 athletic budgets of some randomly selected teams thinking of an FBS move (not counting NDSU and GSU who were already mentioned):

Appalachian State - 17,896,885
Sam Houston State - 10,131,433
Lamar - 13,382,246
James Madison - 31,143,588 (They're already set!!)
Montana - 15,697,294
Montana State - 14,566,446
Jacksonville State - 11,336,115

[TheBisonator]

Is this really an expression?

Forget that jmufan, let's talk about your 31 million dollar athletic budget. Alongside your freakin AWESOME new stadium, what the hell are you still doing in the CAA???

I don't mean it as sarcasm either. I LOVE your stadium, and I'm BLOWN away at your athletic budget numbers.

If I'm CUSA and trying to add onto that stupid mega-conference dealy, I'm on the phone with JMU right now. Is JMU bascially the #3 public school in Virginia now??

[caribbeanhen]

Do all Bison fans post just to see themselves post?

if so, they learned from you apparently

[DJKyR0]

At this point in the year they've already "hunkered down" for the winter. They have no choice but to sit at their computers wrapped in blankets, posting on AGS.

You serious Clark? It was like 35 degrees out this morning, I barely had frost on my windshield.

http://wallpapers.free-review.net/wallpapers/42/Coastal_Holiday%2C_Sand_Beach.jpg

[NoDak 4 Ever]

You serious Clark? It was like 35 degrees out this morning, I barely had frost on my windshield.

http://wallpapers.free-review.net/wallpapers/42/Coastal_Holiday,_Sand_Beach.jpg

North Dakotans don't really hunker down for the winter either. They stay inside for a few nights when the wind chill is -50. I find it funny when people even in this part of the country see 10 degrees as bitterly cold.

[StorminASU]

I have a few questions: What is NDSUs playoff history? Have they ever won a championship? What has their conference record been like the last couple years and this year? Just fill me in since I've evidently missed the NDSU craze.

[TheBisonator]

I have a few questions: What is NDSUs playoff history? Have they ever won a championship? What has their conference record been like the last couple years and this year? Just fill me in since I've evidently missed the NDSU craze.

Playoff history in FCS: What you saw last year is what you get. In DII/College Division: I could write a book. Yes, many a championship was won in Fargo.

Conference record in the past 13 games: 9-4

So now you know.

And knowing is half the battle.

http://cdn2.hark.com/images/000/004/092/4092/original.jpg

[NoDak 4 Ever]

8 National Championships. 5-3 FBS record. Notable wins at Montana and Georgia Southern during their DII transition. Yeah, kind of the real deal.

[StorminASU]

I was meaning I'm totally unfamiliar with NDSU so what were last year's playoffs like? Is that the only year you've made the playoffs? How long have you been D1? How many of those National Championships have came at the D1 level? When was the last one?

[boonegoon]

You serious Clark? It was like 35 degrees out this morning, I barely had frost on my windshield.

http://wallpapers.free-review.net/wallpapers/42/Coastal_Holiday%2C_Sand_Beach.jpg

It was 29 here in the cats pajamas this morning.

[TheBisonator]

I was meaning I'm totally unfamiliar with NDSU so what were last year's playoffs like? Is that the only year you've made the playoffs? How long have you been D1?

We've been removed from DII since July 1, 2004.

We've been an official, full, active DI member since July 1, 2008.

Last year's playoffs we snuck in with most likely the final at-large spot. Hosted Robert Morris and ran away with the game in the 2nd half, 42-17. Went to Montana State in the Round of 16 and ran away with that game in the 4th qtr. 42-17. Went to EWU in the quarters, defense decided to play fluffy prevent in the final drive of a close game to allow EWU to tie the game up and send it into overtime, questionable ref call (fumble) cost NDSU a chance at tying it up in the 2nd OT.

In DII/College Division... I could sit here for 8 hours and write for you all our accomplishments, and that wouldn't be enough. I will just say that Jimmy The Greek on CBS in 1986 called us "one of the top 25 teams in college football regardless of division". A columnist for SI said in the late 80's that we were the same as an average-level Big Ten team. Won 5 NC's in the 1980's. GSU's own coach Erk Russell said he thought those Bison teams would beat the GSU championship teams of those years.

I could go on and on....

[NoDak 4 Ever]

It was 29 here in the cats pajamas this morning.

Except in that part of the country, I'll bet the pajamas are really made of cats.

[Ginsbach]

It was 29 here in the cats pajamas this morning.

Well, I mean, if we're playing THIS game, it was 19 in southeast Idaho this morning.

[Ginsbach]

Also, in regard to the original post, there is NO way Idaho State moves up to FBS. There would be absolutely no point to having 3 FBS schools in Idaho. University of Idaho really has no place being in FBS in the first place, and there's a lot of grumble among some of the populace that they would be better served by moving back down to FCS. Boise State is the only FBS team we need in the state - and I won't mention anything about their low academic standards. Not one thing.

[boonegoon]

Except in that part of the country, I'll bet the pajamas are really made of cats.

I wish there was more of a market for them. Then there wouldn't be as many strays around here.

[boonegoon]

Well, I mean, if we're playing THIS game, it was 19 in southeast Idaho this morning.

Nah, I know it get darn cold elsewhere, especially in those woods. I lived near West Yellowstone. But, sometimes folks in the colder parts of the country think The South is all hot like Florida.

[boonegoon]

Also, in regard to the original post, there is NO way Idaho State moves up to FBS. There would be absolutely no point to having 3 FBS schools in Idaho. University of Idaho really has no place being in FBS in the first place, and there's a lot of grumble among some of the populace that they would be better served by moving back down to FCS. Boise State is the only FBS team we need in the state - and I won't mention anything about their low academic standards. Not one thing.

I do find it curious that the flagship school isn't "The" fbs school. Is it just because Boise is where it's at?

[TheBisonator]

Also, in regard to the original post, there is NO way Idaho State moves up to FBS. There would be absolutely no point to having 3 FBS schools in Idaho. University of Idaho really has no place being in FBS in the first place, and there's a lot of grumble among some of the populace that they would be better served by moving back down to FCS. Boise State is the only FBS team we need in the state - and I won't mention anything about their low academic standards. Not one thing.

No mention about how 45 years ago Boise State was a 2-year vocational institute specializing in diesel mechanics, cabinet making and trucking????

[darell1976]

I was meaning I'm totally unfamiliar with NDSU so what were last year's playoffs like? Is that the only year you've made the playoffs? How long have you been D1? How many of those National Championships have came at the D1 level? When was the last one?

1990 was their last DII National Championship. Last year was their first time hosting any playoff game since they moved into the Fargodome (1993 season).

[appfan2008]

24 at my house just outside of boone this morning... good t shirt weather!

[Ginsbach]

Nah, I know it get darn cold elsewhere, especially in those woods. I lived near West Yellowstone. But, sometimes folks in the colder parts of the country think The South is all hot like Florida.

People make too many assumptions. People don't realize the wide range of climates and microclimates found throughout the entire United States. Places are usually much different than the perceptions people have of them. Also, West Yellowstone is gorgeous. When I drive back to my parents' house I always make sure to skirt right near West Yellowstone rather than taking I-15 through Butte. It's just such amazing country.


I do find it curious that the flagship school isn't "The" fbs school. Is it just because Boise is where it's at?

Probably. Boise is located in such a great spot on the west edge of the Snake River Plain. Plus, look at the populations of the areas. Boise is the capitol of the state and has 205,000 people. Moscow has just short of 24,000 and is pretty far away from the SRP, which is kind of the key part of Idaho. The entire Treasure Valley area is growing tremendously, so they've got a lot of support and people there. It's odd, though, that I see more people in Pocatello wearing Boise State stuff than ISU stuff...


No mention about how 45 years ago Boise State was a 2-year vocational institute specializing in diesel mechanics, cabinet making and trucking????

Yeah, they've upgraded their academics a bit since that time, but not as much as they should have. It's odd, though, because both Boise State and Idaho State still offer associate degrees (I know you can get a dental hygiene and auto repair associates at Idaho State - on the other end of the spectrum, we have a ton of masters and PhD students) which is something I hadn't experienced before moving out here. Both Idaho State and University of Idaho have much stronger academic resumes than Boise State...

[TheBisonator]

People make too many assumptions. People don't realize the wide range of climates and microclimates found throughout the entire United States. Places are usually much different than the perceptions people have of them. Also, West Yellowstone is gorgeous. When I drive back to my parents' house I always make sure to skirt right near West Yellowstone rather than taking I-15 through Butte. It's just such amazing country.

Probably. Boise is located in such a great spot on the west edge of the Snake River Plain. Plus, look at the populations of the areas. Boise is the capitol of the state and has 205,000 people. Moscow has just short of 24,000 and is pretty far away from the SRP, which is kind of the key part of Idaho. The entire Treasure Valley area is growing tremendously, so they've got a lot of support and people there. It's odd, though, that I see more people in Pocatello wearing Boise State stuff than ISU stuff...



Yeah, they've upgraded their academics a bit since that time, but not as much as they should have. It's odd, though, because both Boise State and Idaho State still offer associate degrees (I know you can get a dental hygiene and auto repair associates at Idaho State - on the other end of the spectrum, we have a ton of masters and PhD students) which is something I hadn't experienced before moving out here. Both Idaho State and University of Idaho have much stronger academic resumes than Boise State...

They still offer associates degrees?? Am I the only one who finds that odd?? Is this just an Idaho thing??

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Just from what I've seen as far as BB's original post I think the adding 2.4 million thing is probably as you suggested woefully low. Most of the real middlin' type teams in FBS are at around twice what your current athletic budget is I think and the fact of the matter is that it is not covered by fans and TV as is widely thrown as great revenue streams to FBS it is widely done on the back of student fees.

I don't want any of that FBS thing for Montana. We are in the right place for our program considering the size and the level that we can sustain a good product year in and year out.

This is my favorite division of College Football. Things aren't handed to you on a platter here as a fan or as a school. You have to work at it, your community has to work at it to be a part of it. Things you have to work for mean more to me.

[BisonBacker]

I really didn't know on the numbers so those numbers I knew could be way off. From the sounds of it I was way low which I admitted they may be. I to believe the same thing is true for NDSU, we are where we should be. the trouble with that however is the "keeping up with the Jones' attitude that many have. For example look at Troy. I really don't see them as FBS but they shot up from DII to FBS in a short period of time. Not saying whether it was the right thing or not to do just saying they moved up through the ranks rather quickly. So many people look at that and say if they could do it why couldn't we? Add to that if the premiere schools from FCS move up that only adds fuel to the fire. So if App or Montana ect move up fans of NDSU are going to say we waited to long to move up to FCS and we don't want to miss the boat again so therein is what fuels the fire.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I really didn't know on the numbers so those numbers I knew could be way off. From the sounds of it I was way low which I admitted they may be. I to believe the same thing is true for NDSU, we are where we should be. the trouble with that however is the "keeping up with the Jones' attitude that many have. For example look at Troy. I really don't see them as FBS but they shot up from DII to FBS in a short period of time. Not saying whether it was the right thing or not to do just saying they moved up through the ranks rather quickly. So many people look at that and say if they could do it why couldn't we? Add to that if the premiere schools from FCS move up that only adds fuel to the fire. So if App or Montana ect move up fans of NDSU are going to say we waited to long to move up to FCS and we don't want to miss the boat again so therein is what fuels the fire.

I knew you weren't married to the budget #'s but some do think it's not nearly as expensive as it really is. I like that you think things out and don't just go with the "They're doing it why can't we?"

The FBS most are thinking they will be a part of they have no shot at. They don't want to realize facts but run purely on emotion that they and their fans are somehow more rabid and in a better position than others that have came before them. Who cares? Glad to see you go forth and wallow.

This is the reality for moving up to something that some want. They want the approval of fans that don't care one iota about them being some floundering FBS team and the big boys that they see themselves as a part of don't recognize them as peers any more than they do most FCS teams. I don't need that kind of approval I guess.

Interesting that you specifically mention Troy. They are one of the specific teams that I get a good chuckle out of with their FBS move. Check this for reality.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/2010-01-13-ncaa-athletics-funding-analysis_N.htm

There are a couple of links nested in that article that you will find an intersting read.

[Ginsbach]

They still offer associates degrees?? Am I the only one who finds that odd?? Is this just an Idaho thing??

I have no idea. I just noticed it when I was walking around campus one day and noticed the dental hygiene building. I looked into it and ISU offers a bunch of associate degrees and technical certificates in things like auto body repair and cosmology.

http://www.isu.edu/academic-info/majors/toc.shtml

I did my undergrad at NDSU, so it was big shock to me seeing this when I came here for my masters.

[The Eagle's Cliff]

I believe current FCS schools who are the "Big School" in small population states are in a different situation than the Teacher College-Comprehensive University transition schools like App St. and Georgia Southern. App is in a much better geographical and market situation than we are as Basketball is the main sport of their in-state BCS rivals.

Georgia Southern would need to work it's way up to @ $20 million budget. A lot of our shortfall is just a matter of timing. In spite of our past success, we're only just now reaping the benefits of alumni whose first loyalty is to Georgia Southern. The current administration is working hard to put us in a position to get an invitation and the first generation who grew up Eagle Football fans aren't even 30 years old yet.

What's the difference between FCS and teams in the Sunbelt, MAC, WAC, and MW? 22 scholarships and nothing else, but in our neck of the woods, people think schools in the SoCon are DII. The only way for us to expand our market share is to be FBS. We're maxed out where we are.

NDSU can be next door to the Minnesota Gophers and beat them. Likewise with schools near Washington, Colorado, New Mexico, Wyoming, Buffalo, etc. When you share market with Georgia, Florida, South Carolina, Clemson, Florida, Florida State, Tennessee, Auburn, Alabama, and Georgia Tech, it's a little harder to get recognized. We know we'll never be part of that group, but we could definitely be like Southern Miss or East Carolina. We currently have the 36th best baseball attendance in the nation and having an FBS football program will only help our baseball profile and baskeball (if we can ever get it back).

[BisonFan02]

I believe current FCS schools who are the "Big School" in small population states are in a different situation than the Teacher College-Comprehensive University transition schools like App St. and Georgia Southern. App is in a much better geographical and market situation than we are as Basketball is the main sport of their in-state BCS rivals.

Georgia Southern would need to work it's way up to @ $20 million budget. A lot of our shortfall is just a matter of timing. In spite of our past success, we're only just now reaping the benefits of alumni whose first loyalty is to Georgia Southern. The current administration is working hard to put us in a position to get an invitation and the first generation who grew up Eagle Football fans aren't even 30 years old yet.

What's the difference between FCS and teams in the Sunbelt, MAC, WAC, and MW? 22 scholarships and nothing else, but in our neck of the woods, people think schools in the SoCon are DII. The only way for us to expand our market share is to be FBS. We're maxed out where we are.

NDSU can be next door to the Minnesota Gophers and beat them. Likewise with schools near Washington, Colorado, New Mexico, Wyoming, Buffalo, etc. When you share market with Georgia, Florida, South Carolina, Clemson, Florida, Florida State, Tennessee, Auburn, Alabama, and Georgia Tech, it's a little harder to get recognized. We know we'll never be part of that group, but we could definitely be like Southern Miss or East Carolina. We currently have the 36th best baseball attendance in the nation and having an FBS football program will only help our baseball profile and baskeball (if we can ever get it back).

This. The Bison are a big fish in a small tank while alot of the teams out of the SoCon have to deal with a much larger tank/fish.

[dgtw]

We've been removed from DII since July 1, 2004.

We've been an official, full, active DI member since July 1, 2008.

Last year's playoffs we snuck in with most likely the final at-large spot. Hosted Robert Morris and ran away with the game in the 2nd half, 42-17. Went to Montana State in the Round of 16 and ran away with that game in the 4th qtr. 42-17. Went to EWU in the quarters, defense decided to play fluffy prevent in the final drive of a close game to allow EWU to tie the game up and send it into overtime, questionable ref call (fumble) cost NDSU a chance at tying it up in the 2nd OT.

In DII/College Division... I could sit here for 8 hours and write for you all our accomplishments, and that wouldn't be enough. I will just say that Jimmy The Greek on CBS in 1986 called us "one of the top 25 teams in college football regardless of division". A columnist for SI said in the late 80's that we were the same as an average-level Big Ten team. Won 5 NC's in the 1980's. GSU's own coach Erk Russell said he thought those Bison teams would beat the GSU championship teams of those years.

I could go on and on....

Did you ever go to Florence for a title game? I haven't been there in years, but it is where I grew up. I want UNA to go FCS,m but I'd hate for them to lose the game because of the briefr swell of pride I get every year seeing my hometown mentioned (however briefly) in the national media.

[FargoBison]

Did you ever go to Florence for a title game? I haven't been there in years, but it is where I grew up. I want UNA to go FCS,m but I'd hate for them to lose the game because of the briefr swell of pride I get every year seeing my hometown mentioned (however briefly) in the national media.

Well Florence could always put a bid in for the FCS game if they move up.

[dgtw]

Its probably too small of a town for an FCS title game.

[Twentysix]

At this point in the year they've already "hunkered down" for the winter. They have no choice but to sit at their computers wrapped in blankets, posting on AGS.

I do this quite alot. Deal with it.