TSN Poll

[bluehenbillk]

Team (First-place votes) Record Points Previous Rank
1. North Dakota State Bison (133) 8-0 3,918 3
2. Montana State Bobcats (19) 8-1 3,671 4
3. Appalachian State Mountaineers (5) 6-2 3,567 5
4. Sam Houston State Bearkats (1) 8-0 3,416 6
5. Georgia Southern Eagles 7-1 3,193 1
6. Northern Iowa Panthers 6-2 3,065 2
7. Maine Black Bears 7-1 2,987 8
8. Lehigh Mountain Hawks 7-1 2,983 7
9. New Hampshire Wildcats 6-2 2,601 10
10. Montana Grizzlies 7-2 2,532 11
11. Wofford Terriers 6-2 2,443 12
12. Old Dominion Monarchs 7-2 2,163 15
13. James Madison Dukes 5-3 1,747 9
14. Towson Tigers 6-2 1,364 13
15. Jackson State Tigers 7-1 1,235 19
16. Delaware Blue Hens 5-4 1,076 21
17. Illinois State Redbirds 6-3 977 22
18. Jacksonville State Gamecocks 5-3 955 14
19. William & Mary Tribe 4-4 928 18
20. Tennessee Tech Golden Eagles 5-2 926 25
21. Indiana State Sycamores 5-3 853 20
22. Liberty Flames 6-3 710 23
23. Harvard Crimson 6-1 653 24
24. South Dakota Coyotes 5-4 456 17
25. Central Arkansas Bears 6-3 414 NR
Others receiving votes: Cal Poly 346, Furman 346, Alabama State 341, Massachusetts 307, Norfolk State 187, Brown 154, Alabama A&M 135, Albany 109, North Dakota 105, Portland State 71, Southern Utah 50, Jacksonville 49, Samford 49, Chattanooga 45, Georgetown 41, Youngstown State 34, Eastern Kentucky 33, Stony Brook 30, Northwestern State 22, Duquesne 15, UT Martin 12, San Diego 12, Richmond 8, Tennessee State 7, Florida A&M 4, South Carolina State 2, Bethune-Cookman 1, Penn 1, The Citadel 1.

[danefan]

Jackson State at 15th is a joke.

[youwouldno]

It's a pretty bad poll, sure to be outdone by the "coaches" poll of course. I love South Dakota ahead of Cal Poly, who has a better record and just won head-to-head this week. Also, W&M is #19... I suppose because they beat UNH? But then, Furman is 5-3 with a win over Wofford and is 27th. Hmm. Great work guys.

[PaladinFan]

Honest to goodness, what does Furman have to do to get ranked?

[MTfan4life]

Honest to goodness, what does Furman have to do to get ranked?

Honest to goodness, what does South Dakota have to do to get out of the top 25?

[boonegoon]

Honest to goodness, what does Furman have to do to get ranked?


Pretty shocking that they aren't there and I think Wofford is a little low too.

[boonegoon]

Delaware at 5-4 is 16.

[danefan]

Blind poll. Which resume is stronger:

Sep 3 - L at Coastal Carolina, 23-30
Sep 10 - W at Citadel, 16-6
Sep 17 - Open
Sep 24 - W vs. Presbyterian, 62-21
Oct 1 - W at Western Carolina, 47-21
Oct 8 - L vs. Samford, 21-26
Oct 15 - L at Ga Southern, 20-50
Oct 22 - W vs. Wofford, 26-21
Oct 29 - W at Chattanooga, 14-7

ep 3 - W vs. Concordia (AL), 42-2
Sep 10 - W vs. Tennessee St, 35-29
Sep 17 - W at Southern U, 28-24
Sep 24 - L vs. Alabama State, 14-21
Sep 29 - W vs. Texas Southern, 58-13
Oct 8 - W vs. Ark-Pine Bluff, 48-10
Oct 15 - W at Miss Valley St, 17-16

[Professor Chaos]

USD still being ranked is pitiful. They are 3-4 against D1 competition with all 3 wins coming at home by a combined 21 points. UCA, Cal Poly, and Furman all have legitimate gripes about being left out while USD is still in.

[theasushow]

Richmond 3-5 (0-5) losers of 5 straight still getting top 25 votes....love it.

[JSUBison]

Honest to goodness, what does South Dakota have to do to get out of the top 25?

Have a bye week?

[theasushow]

Blind poll. Which resume is stronger:

Sep 3 - L at Coastal Carolina, 23-30
Sep 10 - W at Citadel, 16-6
Sep 17 - Open
Sep 24 - W vs. Presbyterian, 62-21
Oct 1 - W at Western Carolina, 47-21
Oct 8 - L vs. Samford, 21-26
Oct 15 - L at Ga Southern, 20-50
Oct 22 - W vs. Wofford, 26-21
Oct 29 - W at Chattanooga, 14-7

ep 3 - W vs. Concordia (AL), 42-2
Sep 10 - W vs. Tennessee St, 35-29
Sep 17 - W at Southern U, 28-24
Sep 24 - L vs. Alabama State, 14-21
Sep 29 - W vs. Texas Southern, 58-13
Oct 8 - W vs. Ark-Pine Bluff, 48-10
Oct 15 - W at Miss Valley St, 17-16

Furman.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

Honest to goodness, what does Furman have to do to get ranked?

Be in the CAA.

[pike51]

This poll is garbage! How is Chattanooga not #1? Where's Chattownmocs when you need him?

Seriously though, the top 10 looks just about right.

[asumike83]

Richmond 3-5 (0-5) losers of 5 straight still getting top 25 votes....love it.


Delaware at 5-4 is 16.

Well of course. They play in the SEC, right?

[youwouldno]

Sagarin:

12 SOUTHERN (AA)= 59.79
13 SUN BELT (A) = 58.64
14 MISSOURI VALLEY (AA)= 58.10
15 GREAT WEST (AA)= 57.33
16 COLONIAL (AA)= 56.60

[mainejeff]

Why do I have a feeling if JMU, Delaware, Richmond, or William & Mary were 5-0 in the CAA, 7-1 overall with a 6 point loss to Pitt..........they would be Top 3 no questions asked.

[bluehenbillk]

Jeff-

Maine continues to get screwed because they were unranked in preseason.

[mainejeff]

Jeff-

Maine continues to get screwed because they were unranked in preseason.

Does that mean that we start next season in the Top 10 and get ranked even if we go .500?

[J-State]

Jackson State at 15th is a joke.

How is it a joke? Have you seen the team play?

[youwouldno]

How is it a joke? Have you seen the team play?

The SWAC is the worst conference in FCS, by a reasonably wide margin. So Jackson State hasn't played anyone and still managed to lose a game. Numerous FCS teams would be 7-1 or 8-0 with that schedule.

[J-State]

The SWAC is the worst conference in FCS, by a reasonably wide margin. So Jackson State hasn't played anyone and still managed to lose a game. Numerous FCS teams would be 7-1 or 8-0 with that schedule.

Again, have you seen the team play? If you haven't, then the point is moot. It's based off of emotion. I'm sure the voters in this poll took the SWAC's ranking into consideration when voting in this poll. I couldn't tell you if JSU is better than Furman or Albany because I haven't seen them play.

[katstrapper]

Has to be a lot of App State homers voting. I think this is the only poll where I have seen a two loss team ranked ahead of an unbeaten.xconfusedx

[youwouldno]

Again, have you seen the team play? If you haven't, then the point is moot. It's based off of emotion. I'm sure the voters in this poll took the SWAC's ranking into consideration when voting in this poll. I couldn't tell you if JSU is better than Furman or Albany because I haven't seen them play.

I can tell you right now that zero poll voters have seen every FCS team play, or even those FCS teams with decent records. In fact, none of them have seen even 50% or 25%. It's just not possible.

I have no "emotion" towards Jackson State, they don't even participate in the playoffs so their poll ranking has no effect on anything. But the simple fact is that poll voters have to look at a team's performance on paper and see how it measures up. Out of conference results don't lie- the SWAC is clearly inferior to the MEAC, which itself struggles badly against other FCS conferences.

[UNIFanSince1983]

Sagarin:

12 SOUTHERN (AA)= 59.79
13 SUN BELT (A) = 58.64
14 MISSOURI VALLEY (AA)= 58.10
15 GREAT WEST (AA)= 57.33
16 COLONIAL (AA)= 56.60

I get the point, but I have a hard time taking Sagarin conference ratings seriously when the Great West is the 3rd best in FCS...

[henfan]

Why do I have a feeling if JMU, Delaware, Richmond, or William & Mary were 5-0 in the CAA, 7-1 overall with a 6 point loss to Pitt..........they would be Top 3 no questions asked.

Who cares? Rankings don't mean shxt, especially at this early date. If UMaine keeps winning during the regular season, they'll be where they need to be at the end and will be rewarded accordingly by the PSC.

[youwouldno]

I get the point, but I have a hard time taking Sagarin conference ratings seriously when the Great West is the 3rd best in FCS...

Well the exact conference rankings are a matter of opinion to some extent; Sagarin is measuring the strength of the average team. The Great West has only 5 teams and 4 are pretty solid; their records have been hurt due to playing a lot of FBS opponents.

[AppAlum2003]

Has to be a lot of App State homers voting. I think this is the only poll where I have seen a two loss team ranked ahead of an unbeaten.xconfusedx

If the two teams played this Saturday, I think more voters would pick ASU to win over SHSU. If we just ranked based on record alone, the polls wouldn't be any fun.

[asucrutch23]

Has to be a lot of App State homers voting. I think this is the only poll where I have seen a two loss team ranked ahead of an unbeaten.xconfusedx


then you haven't seen many polls

this is not uncommon

I admittedly haven't seen Sam Houston play this year so I can't attest to whether or not they are better or worse than App State, but yeah this happens all the time when a team from a weaker conference is undefeated. Houston is just now jumping some 2 loss teams in FBS.

SHSU's strength of schedule is 212th (Sagarin), while App State's is 134th. Maybe we'll see you in the playoffs and we can settle it on the field. xpeacex

[FurmanWins!!]

It's all good, FU will get their chance to prove a lot on Saturday with #3 ASU coming to town! :)

[J-State]

I can tell you right now that zero poll voters have seen every FCS team play, or even those FCS teams with decent records. In fact, none of them have seen even 50% or 25%. It's just not possible.

I have no "emotion" towards Jackson State, they don't even participate in the playoffs so their poll ranking has no effect on anything. But the simple fact is that poll voters have to look at a team's performance on paper and see how it measures up. Out of conference results don't lie- the SWAC is clearly inferior to the MEAC, which itself struggles badly against other FCS conferences.

So JSU shouldn't be ranked that high because the SWAC does not participate in playoffs, and the SWAC's performance against out of conference teams is dismal? So we should just make the team itself, and the team's performance irrelevant? I'm sure someone who is a voter in this poll thought they were decent enough of this ranking. And that someone would have to have been members of your conference and other conferences who rank higher in FCS than the SWAC. It is also interesting that they are ranked this high in other polls as well. Someone, somewhere thinks they are deserving.

[youwouldno]

So JSU shouldn't be ranked that high because the SWAC does not participate in playoffs, and the SWAC's performance against out of conference teams is dismal? So we should just make the team itself, and the team's performance irrelevant? I'm sure someone who is a voter in this poll thought they were decent enough of this ranking. And that someone would have to have been members of your conference and other conferences who rank higher in FCS than the SWAC. It is also interesting that they are ranked this high in other polls as well. Someone, somewhere thinks they are deserving.

It's because most voters don't do their homework and just look at the pretty 7-1 record. That's a common phenomenon and certainly isn't limited to any particular school or conference.

Schedule is everything in sports. Not one thing, but literally the only thing that matters. If Jackson State had played 8 SEC opponents, they'd be 0-8. Against 8 NAIA opponents, they'd probably be 8-0. The team is the same- it is the opponents that make the difference.

Jackson State hasn't played a single good opponent and hasn't even dominated some of its weakest ones. A one-point win against the 2nd worst team in all of FCS (Miss. Valley St.)? Only 4 points over Southern? Not impressive at all. I think it's a good thing for Jackson St. that the voters didn't see those.

[pike51]

If the two teams played this Saturday, I think more voters would pick ASU to win over SHSU. If we just ranked based on record alone, the polls wouldn't be any fun.

Would you please stop posting rational stuff... I hate agreeing with App fans.

That said... IMHO if SHSU played in the SoCon, I don't think they would have a shot at top 4. They wouldn't beat App, GSU, Furman, or Wofford.

[tractorapp]

Honest to goodness, what does Furman have to do to get ranked?

I think we both know the answer to that. Can't see it happening...

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Why do I have a feeling if JMU, Delaware, Richmond, or William & Mary were 5-0 in the CAA, 7-1 overall with a 6 point loss to Pitt..........they would be Top 3 no questions asked.


Maine continues to get screwed because they were unranked in preseason.

Sorry, I disagree. Even preseason rankings can't seem to help certain teams.

[J-State]

It's because most voters don't do their homework and just look at the pretty 7-1 record. That's a common phenomenon and certainly isn't limited to any particular school or conference.

Schedule is everything in sports. Not one thing, but literally the only thing that matters. If Jackson State had played 8 SEC opponents, they'd be 0-8. Against 8 NAIA opponents, they'd probably be 8-0. The team is the same- it is the opponents that make the difference.

Jackson State hasn't played a single good opponent and hasn't even dominated some of its weakest ones. A one-point win against the 2nd worst team in all of FCS (Miss. Valley St.)? Only 4 points over Southern? Not impressive at all. I think it's a good thing for Jackson St. that the voters didn't see those.

You failed to mention that both of those victories came against rivals at their stadiums. One thing about football, as the Saints saw on yesterday, is that you can't always say Team A is not deserving of a particular ranking because they beat Team B by one point or four points. You also failed to mention the 3 blowouts on J-State's schedule that came against conference comp. Your argument is based off of perception. You, as many others, perceive the SWAC to be inferior without watching one game. While the gist of it may be true, given that we may have more less competitive teams than most conferences, it doesn't refute the fact that there are good teams in the conference and that J-State is one of them.

I refuse to believe that voters looked at a 7-1 record and said let's rank JSU at #15 while knowing that we're from the SWAC where it is supposedly regarded as the worst FCS conference. That same logic would have applied to having all of the "pretty" 8-0 records at #s 1-2.

[darell1976]

Have a bye week?

Nope that means they will move up. They then play Missouri S&T..means 15-20, then North Dakota and after UND crushes the Yotes..South Dakota is the new #1.xlolx Sorry NDSU.

[youwouldno]

You failed to mention that both of those victories came against rivals at their stadiums. One thing about football, as the Saints saw on yesterday, is that you can't always say Team A is not deserving of a particular ranking because they beat Team B by one point or four points. You also failed to mention the 3 blowouts on J-State's schedule that came against conference comp. Your argument is based off of perception. You, as many others, perceive the SWAC to be inferior without watching one game. While the gist of it may be true, given that we may have more less competitive teams than most conferences, it doesn't refute the fact that there are good teams in the conference and that J-State is one of them.

I refuse to believe that voters looked at a 7-1 record and said let's rank JSU at #15 while knowing that we're from the SWAC where it is supposedly regarded as the worst FCS conference. That same logic would have applied to having all of the "pretty" 8-0 records at #s 1-2.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. The problem is that, at certain times, objectivity is important. Poll voters are not scouts and cannot watch every game- they have to use the available information and do the best they can. The coaches and TSN polls don't do that and it shows. Weak conference schools with good records are always overrated, whether it is from the SWAC, PFL, etc.

Every single year, the SWAC performs poorly against good FCS opponents and usually loses some D-II games as well. Sure, Grambling has had some solid teams, Jackson State has had some solid teams... but a team should earn a ranking by beating quality opponents, and that just hasn't happened this year (or most years).

[frozennorth]

Maine behind shsu gsu, app and uni is an abomination at this point.

[GeauxLions94]

SHSU's strength of schedule is 212th (Sagarin), while App State's is 134th. Maybe we'll see you in the playoffs and we can settle it on the field. xpeacex

Damn New Mexico ... bringing the Bearkats down xbangx

[McNeese75]

I have never seen a group whine more than the Maine promoters on here. If your friggin football team is that damn good (and they do appear to be very good) their actions on the field will take care of things and your team will either win it all or go by the wayside when they meet a better team. This constant mine is bigger than yours is getting laughable.

[goyotes]

Nope that means they will move up. They then play Missouri S&T..means 15-20, then North Dakota and after UND crushes the Yotes..South Dakota is the new #1.xlolx Sorry NDSU.

Sioux fans better get their shots in this week. They will probably be awfully quiet after this weekends game against rival Sioux Falls College

[number1]

It's because most voters don't do their homework and just look at the pretty 7-1 record. That's a common phenomenon and certainly isn't limited to any particular school or conference.

Schedule is everything in sports. Not one thing, but literally the only thing that matters. If Jackson State had played 8 SEC opponents, they'd be 0-8. Against 8 NAIA opponents, they'd probably be 8-0. The team is the same- it is the opponents that make the difference.

Jackson State hasn't played a single good opponent and hasn't even dominated some of its weakest ones. A one-point win against the 2nd worst team in all of FCS (Miss. Valley St.)? Only 4 points over Southern? Not impressive at all. I think it's a good thing for Jackson St. that the voters didn't see those.

One thing, you maintain that the MEAC is miles ahead of the SWAC, but where is this proof? Sure BCU made a statement against PV in the opening game, but you had Hampton and FAMU(both who are in the race for the league title) barely escape with wins against Alabama A&M and Southern(the same team that you think beating by 4 points on the road in a packed, hostile rival stadium is not impressive).

[youwouldno]

The MEAC is just better by any measure... computer rankings, common opponents, head-to-head. Every single way you look at it the MEAC is better... what is the counter-argument?

[apaladin]

For some reason it looks like Furman's losses are not forgotten/ignored like some teams. Just sayin'

[Fear the Bird]

For some reason it looks like Furman's losses are not forgotten/ignored like some teams. Just sayin'

Nor should they be

[katstrapper]

If the two teams played this Saturday, I think more voters would pick ASU to win over SHSU. If we just ranked based on record alone, the polls wouldn't be any fun.

Im sure they would just because. I am not basing on just record alone. This Sam Houston team is damn good.

[katstrapper]

Would you please stop posting rational stuff... I hate agreeing with App fans.

That said... IMHO if SHSU played in the SoCon, I don't think they would have a shot at top 4. They wouldn't beat App, GSU, Furman, or Wofford.

You havent seen SHSU play so not sure how you could make that assessment.

[youwouldno]

SHSU is good but they have played a really terrible schedule. I give them credit for the blowout wins but there is something to be said for teams that play multiple tough opponents.

[J-State]

SHSU is good but they have played a really terrible schedule. I give them credit for the blowout wins but there is something to be said for teams that play multiple tough opponents.

So, would you rank Furman ahead of J-State or Sam Houston?

[youwouldno]

So, would you rank Furman ahead of J-State or Sam Houston?

I'd rank Furman ahead of J-State by 35-40 spots at least, though it's hard to be exact without working it out. Furman would be about a 17 point favorite on a neutral field. It's not even close at all.

On the other hand I'd have SHSU around #5. Better schedule than J-State (still not saying much) but also true domination of most opponents. That would be around 12-15 spots ahead of Furman. I'm not doing the AGS poll this year so it's not exact.

[J-State]

I'd rank Furman ahead of J-State by 35-40 spots at least, though it's hard to be exact without working it out. Furman would be about a 17 point favorite on a neutral field. It's not even close at all.

On the other hand I'd have SHSU around #5. Better schedule than J-State (still not saying much) but also true domination of most opponents. That would be around 12-15 spots ahead of Furman. I'm not doing the AGS poll this year so it's not exact.

So how do you justify ranking a 5-3 team with two losses to squads that are 4-4 and a 30 point blowout defeat 35-40 spots over a 7-1 team who has dominated 4 of its 8 opponents, and only loss came to a squad whose only defeat (by 7 points) was by an FBS team at the time? And you barely beat a 4-5 Chattanooga team, too.

And you make this assumption without seeing J-State playing one down of football. Gotta love it!

[youwouldno]

So how do you justify ranking a 5-3 team with two losses to squads that are 4-4 and a 30 point blowout defeat 35-40 spots over a 7-1 team who has dominated 4 of its 8 opponents, and only loss came to a squad whose only defeat (by 7 points) was by an FBS team at the time? And you barely beat a 4-5 Chattanooga team, too.

And you make this assumption without seeing J-State playing one down of football. Gotta love it!

Chattanooga is a lot better than anyone in the SWAC. They would be favored by multiple TDs over every single team in the conference. It's easy to lose games when you play real opposition.

I mean, Florida is 4-4. Is Jackson St. better than Florida?

[J-State]

Chattanooga is a lot better than anyone in the SWAC. They would be favored by multiple TDs over every single team in the conference. It's easy to lose games when you play real opposition.

I mean, Florida is 4-4. Is Jackson St. better than Florida?

Boise State plays an easier schedule than Oregon, Oklahoma, Georgia, etc. and you see what happened once they met on the football field. The fact of the matter is that those are teams that you are used to seeing, so therefore there is bias. You do not watch SWAC football, so your analysis of what team in that conference is solely relied upon perception and polls. And given that multiple polls (TSN, Rivals, Coaches) have JSU ranked around the 14-15th spot, ahead of Furman, further validates my point that someone voting in those polls thought that JSU is a better team than Furman, Chattanooga, etc. Your stance is based off what you assume it should be, and mine is based off what it is.

[GaSouthern]

Blind poll. Which resume is stronger:

Sep 3 - L at Coastal Carolina, 23-30
Sep 10 - W at Citadel, 16-6
Sep 17 - Open
Sep 24 - W vs. Presbyterian, 62-21
Oct 1 - W at Western Carolina, 47-21
Oct 8 - L vs. Samford, 21-26
Oct 15 - L at Ga Southern, 20-50
Oct 22 - W vs. Wofford, 26-21
Oct 29 - W at Chattanooga, 14-7

ep 3 - W vs. Concordia (AL), 42-2
Sep 10 - W vs. Tennessee St, 35-29
Sep 17 - W at Southern U, 28-24
Sep 24 - L vs. Alabama State, 14-21
Sep 29 - W vs. Texas Southern, 58-13
Oct 8 - W vs. Ark-Pine Bluff, 48-10
Oct 15 - W at Miss Valley St, 17-16

Furman's is

[youwouldno]

Boise State plays an easier schedule than Oregon, Oklahoma, Georgia, etc. and you see what happened once they met on the football field. The fact of the matter is that those are teams that you are used to seeing, so therefore there is bias. You do not watch SWAC football, so your analysis of what team in that conference is solely relied upon perception and polls. And given that multiple polls (TSN, Rivals, Coaches) have JSU ranked around the 14-15th spot, ahead of Furman, further validates my point that someone voting in those polls thought that JSU is a better team than Furman, Chattanooga, etc. Your stance is based off what you assume it should be, and mine is based off what it is.

You didn't answer my question. Is Jackson St. better than Florida? And if not, when does strength of schedule outweigh won/loss record?

So far as the polls, those voters haven't seen J-State play either. They are just going off 7-1. The median rank of 40 computer and human polls found at masseyratings.com is #17 for Furman, #52 for J-State.

[danefan]

Boise State plays an easier schedule than Oregon, Oklahoma, Georgia, etc. and you see what happened once they met on the football field. The fact of the matter is that those are teams that you are used to seeing, so therefore there is bias. You do not watch SWAC football, so your analysis of what team in that conference is solely relied upon perception and polls. And given that multiple polls (TSN, Rivals, Coaches) have JSU ranked around the 14-15th spot, ahead of Furman, further validates my point that someone voting in those polls thought that JSU is a better team than Furman, Chattanooga, etc. Your stance is based off what you assume it should be, and mine is based off what it is.

I'm 100% sure that whomever is voting Jackson State that high is just flat out wrong.

I'd be happy to discuss the point with them as well.

[UNIFanSince1983]

Boise State plays an easier schedule than Oregon, Oklahoma, Georgia, etc. and you see what happened once they met on the football field. The fact of the matter is that those are teams that you are used to seeing, so therefore there is bias. You do not watch SWAC football, so your analysis of what team in that conference is solely relied upon perception and polls. And given that multiple polls (TSN, Rivals, Coaches) have JSU ranked around the 14-15th spot, ahead of Furman, further validates my point that someone voting in those polls thought that JSU is a better team than Furman, Chattanooga, etc. Your stance is based off what you assume it should be, and mine is based off what it is.

I think JSU should be ranked. I also think Furman should be ranked.

However, comparing it to Boise State is stupid. Boise actually plays good teams out of conference which JSU does not do. Not to mention they do not play in the worst FBS conference like JSU does in the FCS. If Boise played in the Sun Belt, and did the same thing then you might have a point.

[J-State]

I think JSU should be ranked. I also think Furman should be ranked.

However, comparing it to Boise State is stupid. Boise actually plays good teams out of conference which JSU does not do. Not to mention they do not play in the worst FBS conference like JSU does in the FCS. If Boise played in the Sun Belt, and did the same thing then you might have a point.

My point wasn't about whether Boise State should be ranked or if their OOC is credible. It was to prove a point that Boise State, who plays in weak conference compared to major conferences, can play and beat teams from stronger conferences. The assumption was made that since JSU plays in the SWAC, they would be severe underdogs against those teams he named from his conference or wherever.


I'm 100% sure that whomever is voting Jackson State that high is just flat out wrong.

I'd be happy to discuss the point with them as well.

Have you seen Jackson State play? Where is your proof that Jackson State is undeserving of its ranking?



You didn't answer my question. Is Jackson St. better than Florida? And if not, when does strength of schedule outweigh won/loss record?

So far as the polls, those voters haven't seen J-State play either. They are just going off 7-1. The median rank of 40 computer and human polls found at masseyratings.com is #17 for Furman, #52 for J-State.

That was a rhetorical question. Florida isn't ranked with its strong schedule. So should they cry about Boise State being ranked? Should they cry that Houston, while undefeated, is ranked and they play in the easier Conference USA? Have you seen Houston's schedule?

If they are going off of JSU's 7-1 record, then why are there teams with 3-4 losses ranked? Why is James Madison ranked higher than JSU? Not that I'm complaining about it or say they are undeserving because I haven't seen them play.

[youwouldno]

That was a rhetorical question. Florida isn't ranked with its strong schedule. So should they cry about Boise State being ranked? Should they cry that Houston, while undefeated, is ranked and they play in the easier Conference USA? Have you seen Houston's schedule?

If they are going off of JSU's 7-1 record, then why are there teams with 3-4 losses ranked? Why is James Madison ranked higher than JSU? Not that I'm complaining about it or say they are undeserving because I haven't seen them play.

It wasn't really a rhetorical question, though Florida is an extreme example. How about Air Force? They are 4-4 in the MWC; is J-State better than them?

You keep talking about 'seeing teams play.' There's nothing more to say about this- you are just totally, 100%, indisputably wrong. It is not possible to watch every team. If that is a requirement, then there should be no polls at all, and the whole discussion is moot.

[danefan]

Have you seen Jackson State play? Where is your proof that Jackson State is undeserving of its ranking?



I watched most of the game versus Texas Southern. JState looked just OK in a blowout win against a really really bad Texas Southern team.

BTW - don't get me wrong, I think Jackson State should be considered for the top 25. Therriault is the real deal. Just no way there is anything to support a Top 20, let alone a Top 15 ranking.

Can you honestly sit there and say there are only 14 teams in the entire FCS that could beat Jackson State?

[J-State]

It wasn't really a rhetorical question, though Florida is an extreme example. How about Air Force? They are 4-4 in the MWC; is J-State better than them?

You keep talking about 'seeing teams play.' There's nothing more to say about this- you are just totally, 100%, indisputably wrong. It is not possible to watch every team. If that is a requirement, then there should be no polls at all, and the whole discussion is moot.

I already mentioned a few pages ago that it is impossible for the voters to watch every team play. I wanted to know if you watched JSU play to make such an adamant argument against their ranking. You never answered my questions regarding Boise State and Houston in comparison.

[J-State]

I watched most of the game versus Texas Southern. JState looked just OK in a blowout win against a really really bad Texas Southern team. T

BTW - don't get me wrong, I think Jackson State should be considered for the top 25. herriault is the real deal. Just no way there is anything to support a Top 20, let alone a Top 15 ranking.

Can you honestly sit there and say there are only 14 teams in the entire FCS that could beat Jackson State?

As a fan, I can sit here and say that J-State should be ranked at it's position. If #s 12-14 were to lose on Saturday and JSU wins, then JSU should continue to move up in the rankings. That's why games are played on the field and not in forums. If you lose, regardless if you lose to App State, Montana, or whomever, then you deserve to fall in the polls. If you win the game that you have scheduled, whether it is against Elon, Wofford, or MS Valley, then you should be allowed to move up in the polls. That's your reward for winning. If your team(s) couldn't win the games that were needed to enter or move up in the polls, then that's on your team - not JSU or the SWAC.

[youwouldno]

I already mentioned a few pages ago that it is impossible for the voters to watch every team play. I wanted to know if you watched JSU play to make such an adamant argument against their ranking. You never answered my questions regarding Boise State and Houston in comparison.

It's nothing personal against J-State. I would make the same argument against any team in that situation, say someone like Duquesne. It's just apparent from the record of what has happened... scouting them isn't necessary.

The Boise St. and Houston comparisons make no sense... they are just obviously better than Florida. Every computer and human poll agrees. Whereas, most computer polls think J-State is not even top 50 in FCS.

[JSUBison]

As a fan, I can sit here and say that J-State should be ranked at it's position. If #s 12-14 were to lose on Saturday and JSU wins, then JSU should continue to move up in the rankings. That's why games are played on the field and not in forums. If you lose, regardless if you lose to App State, Montana, or whomever, then you deserve to fall in the polls. If you win the game that you have scheduled, whether it is against Elon, Wofford, or MS Valley, then you should be allowed to move up in the polls. That's your reward for winning. If your team(s) couldn't win the games that were needed to enter or move up in the polls, then that's on your team - not JSU or the SWAC.

JSU isn't a top 15 team, I have had them ranked off and on during the season in the 20-25 range at times. I believe I dropped them after the win against MVSU. It was a win for the standings, but only beating Valley by one point is embarrassing. I'm in favor of the SWAC getting with the times and doing things a bit different, that means playoffs for starters. Playing and beating OOC teams who are not D2 will be another step. 3rd is coaching. I believe there is plenty of talent available in the SWAC footprint, but it takes decent coaching, evaluation, and recruiting to get it done. I believe the coaching is holding back some of these teams. Right now the SWAC can't even think of competing against the Big 4 FCS conferences, and probably not against the middle tier as well. It could change, but I doubt very much the old timers in control want to do change status quo.

[J-State]

It's nothing personal against J-State. I would make the same argument against any team in that situation, say someone like Duquesne. It's just apparent from the record of what has happened... scouting them isn't necessary.

The Boise St. and Houston comparisons make no sense... they are just obviously better than Florida. Every computer and human poll agrees. Whereas, most computer polls think J-State is not even top 50 in FCS.

But what makes it obvious that they are? And I don't put much weight into computer polls even if it puts J-State as #1. You can't gauge a team's performance by compiling stats and numbers. I'm done with this discussion because it is clear that your stance is bias. You don't know anything about J-State or most SWAC schools aside from the fact that the SWAC doesn't participate in playoffs. The SWAC isn't the only FCS conference that has losses to DII schools. Tell your team to win their games against the world-beaters on the east coast and then they will get a ranking.

[J-State]

JSU isn't a top 15 team, I have had them ranked off and on during the season in the 20-25 range at times. I believe I dropped them after the win against MVSU. It was a win for the standings, but only beating Valley by one point is embarrassing. I'm in favor of the SWAC getting with the times and doing things a bit different, that means playoffs for starters. Playing and beating OOC teams who are not D2 will be another step. 3rd is coaching. I believe there is plenty of talent available in the SWAC footprint, but it takes decent coaching, evaluation, and recruiting to get it done. I believe the coaching is holding back some of these teams. Right now the SWAC can't even think of competing against the Big 4 FCS conferences, and probably not against the middle tier as well. It could change, but I doubt very much the old timers in control want to do change status quo.

Surely, JSU fans weren't pleased with the victory. Reality is that teams, winless or not, will get amped for particular teams. I'm sure you all have rivals that do not lay over and let you whip them by 50 points every year. I think the team we have this year could compete against some of those teams. The team we had last year, while 8-3, wouldn't have competed well. In the last decade, I would say that a few teams in the SWAC could have competed against other FCS teams.

One thing I do agree on is the coaching. The SWAC is full of talent, but coaching is definitely suspect. There is no reason why a team like J-State shouldn't dominate FCS on a yearly basis. We play in a 60k seat stadium, with arguably the best fanbase, competitive salaries for coaching (Comegy makes $186k), and reasonably competitive facilities for FCS. Attracting talent has never been our problem. It's been attracting good coaches.

[J_State_Tiger]

Very interesting discussion.

Until your school schedules Jackson State, you can not say how "good" our team is or whether we should be ranked. Stop crying. Damn. xlolx

[danefan]

Very interesting discussion.

Until your school schedules Jackson State, you can not say how "good" our team is or whether we should be ranked. Stop crying. Damn. xlolx

We'd love to schedule SWAC teams. Great tradition and great bands!

Unfortunately, the SWAC teams won't schedule anyone besides MEAC schools regularly. I don't blame you guys ($$ and history), but don't pull the "no one will schedule us, so you can't talk ish" routine.

[TwoFeathers]

Ga Southern goes from something like 120 first-place votes to zero in one week, just by losing to App?

[molly]

Ga Southern goes from something like 120 first-place votes to zero in one week, just by losing to App?

Yep. NDSU is undefeated with a FBS win and a win against UNI. Georgia Southern doesn't have a win close to either of them right now, and NDSU hasn't lost to anyone.

[ngineer]

Ga Southern goes from something like 120 first-place votes to zero in one week, just by losing to App?

They lost to a team ranked well below them. Why should they get any first place votes when NDSU and Montana State are undefeated against pretty good competition?

[katstrapper]

SHSU is good but they have played a really terrible schedule. I give them credit for the blowout wins but there is something to be said for teams that play multiple tough opponents.

It looks like we have had a terrible schedule because of the way things played out this year so far, BUT........

W. Illinois was a playoff team last year
SFA had won two SLC championships in a row
C Arkansas and McNeese St were both ranked top 20 to start season.
Sam Houston had NO sub-division teams on schedule this year

So to say we had a TERRIBLE schedule I will disagree. If all these teams played to their potential this year, this would be a very tough schedule. But, they didnt and the SLC is having a down year.

SHSU coaches wont let the team look past SE Louisiana this week and roll into next week against NW State for the conference title if they beat UCA. If they lose to UCA, NW St is done.

[ysubigred]

It looks like we have had a terrible schedule because of the way things played out this year so far, BUT........

W. Illinois was a playoff team last year
SFA had won two SLC championships in a row
C Arkansas and McNeese St were both ranked top 20 to start season.
Sam Houston had NO sub-division teams on schedule this year

So to say we had a TERRIBLE schedule I will disagree. If all these teams played to their potential this year, this would be a very tough schedule. But, they didnt and the SLC is having a down year.

SHSU coaches wont let the team look past SE Louisiana this week and roll into next week against NW State for the conference title if they beat UCA. If they lose to UCA, NW St is done.

I hear ya but ranking 116th out of 118 is pretty bad LOL!! just saying......... xdizzyx

[DJKyR0]

It looks like we have had a terrible schedule because of the way things played out this year so far, BUT........

W. Illinois was a playoff team last year

Not to rag on your schedule (we've had the same criticisms of ours, and it's lame), but this WIU team is night-and-day different from the team last year. They had both the offensive and defensive conference players of the year graduate in QB Matt Barr and LB Kyle Glazier, along with a ton of other seniors (WR Lito Senatus, who was a beast). Aside from their two RBs they're a totally different team.

Anyway, moving along.

[ngineer]

It looks like we have had a terrible schedule because of the way things played out this year so far, BUT........

W. Illinois was a playoff team last year
SFA had won two SLC championships in a row
C Arkansas and McNeese St were both ranked top 20 to start season.
Sam Houston had NO sub-division teams on schedule this year

So to say we had a TERRIBLE schedule I will disagree. If all these teams played to their potential this year, this would be a very tough schedule. But, they didnt and the SLC is having a down year.

SHSU coaches wont let the team look past SE Louisiana this week and roll into next week against NW State for the conference title if they beat UCA. If they lose to UCA, NW St is done.

I would agree, but running up 66 points on Lamar and actually easing off the pedal in the second half..wow. What kind of program is a Lamar. I thought he was a tenant farmer in Kansas.

[ysubigred]

I would agree, but running up 66 points on Lamar and actually easing off the pedal in the second half..wow. What kind of program is a Lamar. I thought he was a tenant farmer in Kansas.

What I find suprising W. Illinois was a playoff team last year; kats only beat them 20-6. Hell as bad as YSU seems this year we could have put 100 on WIU and shut them out.