Stratify the FCS Conferences

[TheBisonator]

I was wondering how one would group the FCS conferences in eschelons, so to speak. I think that there's enough change in conference strength every year that there may not be that many groups in the hierarchy.

Here's how I would rank the conference hierarchy, and I am not counting the Great West (b/c it's bascially a zombie conference) and Independents, since most of them at the moment are FBS bound.

The rankings of conferences within these strata may vary from year to year.

The Big Four:
Colonial Athletic Association
Southern Conference
Missouri Valley Football COnference
Big Sky Conference

The Curve:
Southland Conference
Mideast Athletic Conference
Patriot League
Ohio Valley Conference
Big South Conference

The Rest:
Ivy League
Northeast Conference
Pioneer League
Southwest Athletic Conference

Would you group these conferences differently in any way? Thoughts??

[Twentysix]

The ivy is probably just as good as the mid-bottom of the curve strata. Not sure if they belong in the bottom. Maybe change the 2nd patriot league to the ivy league. I see you already edited it. :p

[Dane96]

SO exactly what has the MEAC, OVC, BIG SOUTH and the PL done lately. If you are putting them in the curve, then the NEC and IVY belong in there as the top teams from those conferences can, will and have beeaten those leagues.

[Twentysix]

SO exactly what has the MEAC, OVC, BIG SOUTH and the PL done lately. If you are putting them in the curve, then the NEC and IVY belong in there as the top teams from those conferences can, will and have beeaten those leagues.

Ive got a hunch it has to do with playoffs. All of the NEC teams ive seen play have been pretty low qaulity even robert morris last year. Wagner, St francis, Central conneticut, and Robert Morris have all been pretty bad, maybe we are catching all these NEC teams during their down years who knows.

[TheBisonator]

The ivy is probably just as good as the mid-bottom of the curve strata. Not sure if they belong in the bottom. Maybe change the 2nd patriot league to the ivy league.

Forgot Big South, fixed the PL duplicate.

And the Ivy League aint what it used to be. If they started scheduling OOC games with more diverse opponents and accepted a playoff AQ, I would put them in The Curve, maybe change The Curve to The Masses, or The Proletariat, and the Pioneer/NEC and SWAC would be at the bottom.

[darell1976]

I was wondering how one would group the FCS conferences in eschelons, so to speak. I think that there's enough change in conference strength every year that there may not be that many groups in the hierarchy.

Here's how I would rank the conference hierarchy, and I am not counting the Great West (b/c it's bascially a zombie conference) and Independents, since most of them at the moment are FBS bound.

The rankings of conferences within these strata may vary from year to year.

The Big Four:
Colonial Athletic Association
Southern Conference
Missouri Valley Football COnference
Big Sky Conference

The Curve:
Southland Conference
Mideast Athletic Conference
Patriot League
Ohio Valley Conference
Big South Conference

The Rest:
Ivy League
Northeast Conference
Pioneer League
Southwest Athletic Conference

Would you group these conferences differently in any way? Thoughts??

Sounds good to me!!!!

[Twentysix]

Does the MEAC really belong in the middle? Just curious.

[youwouldno]

The Ivy League tends to be top heavy, specifically Harvard-heavy. But still they would fit better in the 2nd group.

Statistically, the SWAC almost needs its own category at the bottom.

[Twentysix]

Thats funny watch what I do here.


The Big Sky tends to be top heavy, specifically Montana/St-heavy. But still they would fit better in the 2nd group.

Statistically, the SWAC almost needs its own category at the bottom.

[NDB]

Pretty Easy Exercise.

Above Average:
3. Big Sky (Mountain West)
4. CAA (Big East)
2. MVFC (Big Ten)
1. SoCon (SEC)

HUGE BREAK

Average:
9. Big South
8. Ivy (although this year other than harvard they stink!)
5. OVC (MAC)
6. Patriot
7. Southland

Below Average:
10. MEAC
12. Northeast
11. Pioneer
13. SWAC (SWAC)

[FargoBison]

CAA
SoCon
MVFC
Big Sky

SLC
Patriot

IVY

OVC
MEAC
NEC
Big South

SWAC

Pioneer

[The Eagle's Cliff]

The Top Tier:
Colonial Athletic Association
Southern Conference
Missouri Valley Football COnference
Big Sky Conference

The 2nd Tier:
Southland Conference
Ohio Valley Conference

The Rest:
Northeast Conference
Mideast Athletic Conference
Patriot League
Big South Conference

The Irrelevant:
Ivy League
Pioneer League
Southwest Athletic Conference

I like Bisonater's grouping with a little rearrangement.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I am absolutely loving how these Missouri Valley guys are putting their conference as equivalent, in some way, to the CAA, SoCon and Big Sky, when their last FCS national championship was eight years ago, and it came with a team that's no longer a member of the conference.

It's kind of like the OVC calling themselves "top stratus" since Roy Kidd won a bunch of FCS championships with EKU. xlolx

[NDB]

That's because we're talking conferences not best teams in a conference, superstar.

How about your team beats a top 25 program and then get back to us?

The Patriot League has one top 25 program and it's overrated...

[extremerouge]

I am absolutely loving how these Missouri Valley guys are putting their conference as equivalent, in some way, to the CAA, SoCon and Big Sky, when their last FCS national championship was eight years ago, and it came with a team that's no longer a member of the conference.

It's kind of like the OVC calling themselves "top stratus" since Roy Kidd won a bunch of FCS championships with EKU. xlolx

Because MVFC has three teams in Sagarins top 10 and 5 in the top 25...pretty decent group...

[youwouldno]

The Gateway/MVFC has been consistently solid, with no real weak periods. They've won a good number of playoff games in recent years... you can't go by championships alone. UNI has had some tough losses in particular. There's no doubt they belong in the first tier of FCS conferences.

[veinup]

people seem to be in agreement on the top four. which is the best team in each one of those top four? and of those four teams, which is the best?

[Reign of Terrier]

The Top Tier:
Colonial Athletic Association
Southern Conference
Missouri Valley Football COnference
Big Sky Conference

The 2nd Tier:
Southland Conference
Ohio Valley Conference

The Rest:
Northeast Conference
Mideast Athletic Conference
Patriot League
Big South Conference

The Irrelevant:
Ivy League
Pioneer League
Southwest Athletic Conference

I like Bisonater's grouping with a little rearrangement.

This guy got it 100%. Disclaimer: if the MVC doesn't do anything this year in the playoffs they are second tier IMO

[Fear the Bird]

people seem to be in agreement on the top four. which is the best team in each one of those top four? and of those four teams, which is the best?

My opinion: Maine, GSU/Wofford/App (no idea), NDSU, MSU and the best to me is GSU/Woff/App

[FargoBison]

This guy got it 100%. Disclaimer: if the MVC doesn't do anything this year in the playoffs they are second tier IMO

Define not doing anything. The MVFC had more wins last year in the playoffs than the MEAC, OVC, SLC and Patriot has had in the last five years combined and the MVFC was down last year.

The MVFC has been a lot like the Big 10 unfortunately when it comes to winning the big game.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

people seem to be in agreement on the top four. which is the best team in each one of those top four? and of those four teams, which is the best?

Of course - the Missouri Valley. Who could possibly argue? xlolx

[Reign of Terrier]

Define not doing anything. The MVFC had more wins last year in the playoffs than the MEAC, OVC, SLC and Patriot has had in the last five years combined and the MVFC was down last year.

The MVFC has been a lot like the Big 10 unfortunately when it comes to winning the big game.

but then again...those conferences you have listed haven't done anything in the last 5 years. YSU was good a few years ago but from an outsider's perspective it seems that it's been UNI and that's it in the last few years

[FargoBison]

but then again...those conferences you have listed haven't done anything in the last 5 years. YSU was good a few years ago but from an outsider's perspective it seems that it's been UNI and that's it in the last few years

In the past five years UNI, SIU and YSU have all played in semifinal games. The second tier are the conferences I listed, you can't put the MVFC among that group because well the MVFC has more playoff wins in just last year alone then they have had in the previous five(things won't get much better if you go back another 5-10 years). I'm sorry but outside of the CAA the MVFC has been the deepest FCS conference...the MVFC just hasn't had a team good enough to win the big game.

[Reign of Terrier]

In the past five years UNI, SIU and YSU have all played in semifinal games. The second tier are the conferences I listed, you can't put the MVFC among that group because well the MVFC has more playoff wins in just last year alone then they have had in the previous five(things won't get much better if you go back another 5-10 years). I'm sorry but outside of the CAA the MVFC has been the deepest FCS conference...the MVFC just hasn't had a team good enough to win the big game.
Youngstown has made the playoffs ONCE since Tressel left. They had a great team in 06, but beyond that not so much. From what I can tell on paper, the MVC hasn't gone farther then 1.5 deep in terms of quality teams year in and year out. Consistency speaks volumes.

[PAllen]

Pretty Easy Exercise.

Above Average:
3. Big Sky (Mountain West)
4. CAA (Big East)
2. MVFC (Big Ten)
1. SoCon (SEC)

HUGE BREAK

Average:
9. Big South
8. Ivy (although this year other than harvard they stink!)
5. OVC (MAC)
6. Patriot
7. Southland

Below Average:
10. MEAC
12. Northeast
11. Pioneer
13. SWAC (SWAC)

+1 (could argue the specific rankings within groups, but that is about right)

[FargoBison]

Youngstown has made the playoffs ONCE since Tressel left. They had a great team in 06, but beyond that not so much. From what I can tell on paper, the MVC hasn't gone farther then 1.5 deep in terms of quality teams year in and year out. Consistency speaks volumes.

Is that really any different than the Big Sky and SoCon?

The CAA has been far and away the best conference overall, multiple champions and tons of teams have gone deep in the postseason.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Of course - the Missouri Valley. Who could possibly argue? xlolx


Hopefully Lehigh will be coming to Fargo for a playoff game so they can prove what a "powerhouse" the Patriot League is.

I'm sure it would be a score like our Lafayette game.....Bison blow-out!

[FargoBison]

Hopefully Lehigh will be coming to Fargo for a playoff game so they can prove what a "powerhouse" the Patriot League is.

I'm sure it would be a score like our Lafayette game.....Bison blow-out!

No need to stoop to their level....Lehigh is a solid team.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

No need to stoop to their level....Lehigh is a solid team.


We would beat Lehigh sold or not.

[FargoBison]

We would beat Lehigh sold or not.

We would be favored at home...but Lehigh is a very good team. They won at UNI last year and returned most of that team. Their only loss this year was a very close game in OT at New Hampshire.

[NDB]

Who hasn't beaten UNI?


Again. We are talking conferences - collections of teams, not individual ones.


Anyone who doesn't think the MVFC is an upper echelon conference is either a dumbass or trying to sell something.

[Reign of Terrier]

Is that really any different than the Big Sky and SoCon?

The CAA has been far and away the best conference overall, multiple champions and tons of teams have gone deep in the postseason.

The MVC is inconsistent. The only consistent playoff teams they've had since 2003 was Southern Illinois and UNI. Since 2003 the Socon has had GSU, Wofford, Furman, and App State at least 3 times with Elon going once as well. In comparison, the only teams that can say that in the MVC are SIU and UNI. If you go back one year to 2002, Furman, GSU, App State, and Wofford have all made the playoffs at least 4 times. I think it's clear that the Socon is far more deep than the MVC

[Fear the Bird]

We get it you got screwed vs unh give it a rest

[Fear the Bird]

Let me even make your next predictable post for you

How are those 4 losses doing for the blue hens

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

and, if fact, the only loss this year was due to a whacked-out ref call during overtime. Othewise you would be looking at one of only 3 undefeated teams left in the FCS...


Undefeated in a Patriot League schedule....wow...pretty impressive. Lehigh beat UNI last year....kudos to them. Lehigh playing a Missouri Valley schedule would be a middle of the pack team....period!

[Reign of Terrier]

Heck, I'll say it again, in a different way. Since 2000, the Socon has had 3 teams make the playoffs 6 (or 7?) times + and 4 4+ times. The MVC can not say that. Sure the MVC has made it to the semis in a comparable amount of teams but the Socon still has more between Furman, GSU, and App State going multiple times and Wofford going another time as well.

[Fear the Bird]

say, congratulations on the win this past weekend v. Towson....

I predicted it, of course..

now lets get Delaware to win the balance of their games and put more fun into the CAA

Theyonly have richmond and nova left so irrelevant what happens the rest of the way unfortunately

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

say, Bison Fan, how did the Lehigh v. the powerful team from the MVC game in the 2010 playoffs turn out?

oops!


Did you read what I wrote? I gave them credit for that.

Like I said, running through a Patriot League schedule is not impressive. Lehigh would be middle pack team in the Valley.

Hopefully, the juggernaut that is Lehigh football can make it to Fargo this year.

[FargoBison]

The MVC is inconsistent. The only consistent playoff teams they've had since 2003 was Southern Illinois and UNI. Since 2003 the Socon has had GSU, Wofford, Furman, and App State at least 3 times with Elon going once as well. In comparison, the only teams that can say that in the MVC are SIU and UNI. If you go back one year to 2002, Furman, GSU, App State, and Wofford have all made the playoffs at least 4 times. I think it's clear that the Socon is far more deep than the MVC

My point was the MVFC was clearly better than the second tier conferences...over the past five years or so we've been pretty close to the Big Sky...I'll admit the CAA and SoCon have been better. But it is preposterous to start lumping the MVFC in with SLC, OVC etc.

[Fear the Bird]

Sounds like maybe this satisfies all?

The first tier
Colonial Athletic Association
Southern Conference
Big Sky Conference

Knocking on the door
MVFC

The 2nd Tier:
Southland Conference
Ohio Valley Conference

The Rest:
Northeast Conference
Mideast Athletic Conference
Patriot League
Big South Conference

The Irrelevant:
Ivy League
Pioneer League
Southwest Athletic Conference

[Reign of Terrier]

My point was the MVFC was clearly better than the second tier conferences...over the past five years or so we've been pretty close to the Big Sky...I'll admit the CAA and SoCon have been better. But it is preposterous to start lumping the MVFC in with SLC, OVC etc.

I guess I will give you that, however I think it is somewhat of a stretch to lump the Big Sky and MVC in the same group as the Socon and CAA. I think there's somewhat of a gap between 2 and 3 but a bigger gap between 4 and 5

[Fear the Bird]

I guess I will give you that, however I think it is somewhat of a stretch to lump the Big Sky and MVC in the same group as the Socon and CAA. I think there's somewhat of a gap between 2 and 3 but a bigger gap between 4 and 5

I agree but give big fluffy benefit of the doubt

[FargoBison]

Sounds like maybe this satisfies all?

The first tier
Colonial Athletic Association
Southern Conference
Big Sky Conference

Knocking on the door
MVFC

The 2nd Tier:
Southland Conference
Ohio Valley Conference

The Rest:
Northeast Conference
Mideast Athletic Conference
Patriot League
Big South Conference

The Irrelevant:
Ivy League
Pioneer League
Southwest Athletic Conference

The MVFC belongs with the Big Sky IMO. Yes they do have a few titles but since 1995 Montana and EWU are the only two Big Sky teams to get past the quarterfinals.

[Reign of Terrier]

The MVFC belongs with the Big Sky IMO. Only two Big Sky teams have made any kind of run deep in the playoffs. Yes they do have a few titles but since 1995 Montana and EWU are the only two Big Sky teams to get past the quarterfinals.
What this guy said, I was about to call the Big Sky out, but I didn't want to look up anymore "Facts" then I already have.

[Dgreenwell3]

but but but Bison Fan, Lehigh has barely started its Patriot league schedule, having played only a couple of games...

Lehigh, THIS YEAR, would lead the MVC - as you are going to find out in the playoffs

I just spat out my beer everywhere. U shouldn't make me laugh like this on a sunday night.
Lehigh is a solid club and congrats on that but please don't get too out there...mvfc is one of the best conferences in the country.

[Humble Steward]

[QUOTE=Twentysix;1710476]Does the MEAC really belong in the middle? Just curious.[/QUOTE

xnodx Honestly yes. The programs have been improving tremendously in the last few years. The competition this year has been great and I believe it is worthy of being in the middle. Too much trashing of the MEAC continues based on the past. However, the coaching and play level is improving dramatically. Three games against FBS schools were all winnable this year (NSU vs. West Virginia, B-CU vs. Miaimi, and SCSU vs. Indiana). Let's take a closer look, instead of just repeating what everyone else thinks.

Honestly, everyone keeps saying that the MEAC only deserves one team in this year, but an 8-3 team with a 20 team field, would not surprise me if we get two teams in. Great competition this year and some good coaching as well. Just food for thought.

[FargoBison]

The MVFC is much better this year than it was last year as well. That said, Lehigh deserves some respect. They earned it by winning at the UNI-Dome.

[Dgreenwell3]

and the MVFC was one of the best last year

how did the game between Lehigh and one of the best of the MVFC turn out last year in the playoffs?

Lehigh controlled UNI in the game and won...

Lehigh is a magnitude better than last year...

oh my..........!

Ummm idk if you have noticed but the valley is leaps and bounds better than last year. You have 5 teams in playoff contention 2 FBS victories and 3 top ten teams in the sagarin rankings. I have nothing against lehigh but you are taking a one game sampling (against a really inconsistent uni squad last year) and blowing it out to be the end all be all. Congrats on the win over UNI last year but it's this year.

[Fear the Bird]

I think we should all agree that UNI, Lehigh, and the MVFC as a whole are ALL better this year and may we be fortunate enough to see Lehigh-UNI or Lehigh-NDSU but hopefully in the quarters not second round

[Dgreenwell3]

The MVFC is much better this year than it was last year as well. That said, Lehigh deserves some respect. They earned it by winning at the UNI-Dome.

O yeah of course. I wasn't trying to disrespect them, I was just stating how silly it was to try and say "if we were in this conference" talk.

[Reign of Terrier]

People....the Fan is a troll

[Dgreenwell3]

People....the Fan is a troll

Ah, I knew his line of thinking sounded a little trollish. I really don't pay much attention to him usually.
Once again, moval is good prolly not the best in the country but you could put that top 3 to 4 up against just about anyone.

[BlueHenSinfonian]

I think we should all agree that UNI, Lehigh, and the MVFC as a whole are ALL better this year and may we be fortunate enough to see Lehigh-UNI or Lehigh-NDSU but hopefully in the quarters not second round

I agree. Every now and again the PL produces a real streaker of a team, and Lehigh seems to be that this year. The game vs. Liberty was a bit close, but Lehigh seems to have a very nice offense going on. The trick will be seeing how they handle CAA/SoCon/Big Sky/MVC defenses in the playoffs.

The MVC in general has some strong teams this year. NDSU is a standout, UNI is showing strong in conference as they usually do, but the real story to me is that traditional bottom dwellers Indiana State and Illinois State are really stepping it up this year.

[Dgreenwell3]

I agree. Every now and again the PL produces a real streaker of a team, and Lehigh seems to be that this year. The game vs. Liberty was a bit close, but Lehigh seems to have a very nice offense going on. The trick will be seeing how they handle CAA/SoCon/Big Sky/MVC defenses in the playoffs.

The MVC in general has some strong teams this year. NDSU is a standout, UNI is showing strong in conference as they usually do, but the real story to me is that traditional bottom dwellers Indiana State and Illinois State are really stepping it up this year.

I am really proud of our guys. We continue to not only improve but we are bringing much higher level of talent (shakir bell and the recent offensive line recruits) there is some worry that without Fouch things will get weird but caleb Watkins looks like a solid quarterback.

[Professor Chaos]

I guess I will give you that, however I think it is somewhat of a stretch to lump the Big Sky and MVC in the same group as the Socon and CAA. I think there's somewhat of a gap between 2 and 3 but a bigger gap between 4 and 5

In the last 5 years the MVFC/Gateway has gotten more at large playoff births (7) than any other conference other than the CAA (16). Here's how it breaks down among the "Big 4" for playoff bids and games won/winning percentage since 2006:

CAA 21 (31-19 .620)
SOCON 11 (17-9 .653)
MVC 12 (13-12 .520)
BSC 10 (15-9 .625)

So as a group those 4 conferences have taken 34 of the 42 at large spots available over the last 5 years. It is true that the MVC has a significantly lower winning % as a conference due to the fact that there have been no NCs out of the conference during that time. However, look at the overall bids and the overall wins. It's not as huge of a dicrepancy as you'd like to think. It's not that far fetched to say that these 4 are head and shoulders above the rest. In fact, looking at these numbers you can see the CAA is head and shoulders above everybody. If you're going to claim that the MVC is so undeserving of being in the same group as the SOCON you'd better admit that the SOCON isn't deserving of being in the same group as the CAA. In which case we really don't even have groups since we're just ranking the conferences thus derailing Bisonator's intent of the discussion for this thread of grouping the conferences.

[/rant]

[Lehigh Football Nation]

In the last 5 years the MVFC/Gateway has gotten more at large playoff births (7) than any other conference other than the CAA (16). Here's how it breaks down among the "Big 4" for playoff bids and games won/winning percentage since 2006:

CAA 21 (31-19 .620)
SOCON 11 (17-9 .653)
MVC 12 (13-12 .520)
BSC 10 (15-9 .625)

So as a group those 4 conferences have taken 34 of the 42 at large spots available over the last 5 years. It is true that the MVC has a significantly lower winning % as a conference due to the fact that there have been no NCs out of the conference during that time..

So let me get this straight. Following this logic, since the ACC qualified for the same number of BCS bowls as the SEC, Pac-Ten and Big XII, they're just as good as those conferences?

[Squealofthepig]

So let me get this straight. Following this logic, since the ACC qualified for the same number of BCS bowls as the SEC, Pac-Ten and Big XII, they're just as good as those conferences?

Apples and Oranges; only similarity is that conference champions are guaranteed of a BCS spot in FBS, and a playoff spot in FCS. The way to look at that would be at-large BCS berths in FBS, and at-large FCS berths (and record in playoffs, since bowls are one-and-done). 34/42 at-large spots,a s Professor Chaos notes, is a good indicator - though whether that is conference strength or a big-conference bias is probably up to personal perception.

[MTfan4life]

and, if fact, the only loss this year was due to a whacked-out ref call during overtime. Othewise you would be looking at one of only 3 undefeated teams left in the FCS...

The BS call from the Lehigh vs. New Hampshire game occurred while the game was tied on first down. That didn't end the game. Lehigh still had another possession. Let's say they rule it incomplete, New Hampshire put up 41, so you can't proclaim that you would have won if that call had been reversed. Lum threw the interception after the UNH touchdown anyways. If he doesn't do that, the second overtime is a new ball game. If the call was the last play of the game on 4th down and Lehigh was ahead, then it's correct to say Lehigh would have won had it not been for that call. However, that was not the case. Facing adversity is part of sports, as the referees will never be perfect. Lehigh proved that they weren't up to the task by blowing the game on their drive with the interception. The refs screwed the call, but Lehigh lost the game.

[poly51]

Here's how I would rank the conference hierarchy, and I am not counting the Great West (b/c it's bascially a zombie conference) and Independents, since most of them at the moment are FBS bound.

Most of the Great West are not FBS bound. There are five Great West football schools. Four are going to the Big Sky and one is going to the MVFC.

Cal Poly UC Davis Southern Utah North Dakota to the Big Sky, South Dakota to the MVFC.

[344Johnson]

I am absolutely loving how these Missouri Valley guys are putting their conference as equivalent, in some way, to the CAA, SoCon and Big Sky, when their last FCS national championship was eight years ago, and it came with a team that's no longer a member of the conference.

It's kind of like the OVC calling themselves "top stratus" since Roy Kidd won a bunch of FCS championships with EKU. xlolx

Valley is tough buddy. It isn't always about championships. Heck, an NDSU team that went 4-4 in conference last year, demolished the Big Sky champ at Montana St last year, and took EWU to what was a very questionable overtime ending. That sure sounds like the Valley is awful, if an average team can do that to Big Sky teams. Missouri Valley is just as good if not better than the Big Sky. I'd say the SoCon and the CAA are better conferences but the top team(s) in the Valley can/will play with anyone in the country.

The Big Ten hasn't won a championship in years, I think since Ohio St. in '03, does that mean they don't have a good conference? Big 12 hasn't won in awhile, are they bad? Anyone outside of the SEC is bad by that logic. I think your logic is flawed, but maybe that is just me.

You don't see me trashing the Patriot for being a bad conference. I happen to think it is an average conference, you think because Lehigh beat UNI last year that the Valley isn't a top conference, I happen to think if Lehigh played in the Valley, they'd be just another team, 4-4 years being extremely prevalent.

For me

SoCon is #1A
CAA is #1B
MVFC is #2
Sky is #3

[344Johnson]

How did it turn out the last time, in fact last year in the playoffs, when Lehigh paid a visit to a powerful and heavily favored MVC football team?

oops!

Yep, Lehigh won. That is why the guys play the game, to see who is better on a specific day. NDSU also rolled over Montana State last season, but in your scenario/fantasy, that doesn't count because NDSU didn't have to play Lehigh. Fact of what people are trying to say is that the lesser conferences have good teams in them, that doesn't mean the conference is good. Lehigh is a good program. The conference they are a member of, isn't very good.

[Dane96]

We would beat Lehigh sold or not.

My vote for "clueless" of the year.

[MTfan4life]

the whacked-out call by the refs lost the game for Lehigh..

Lehigh would still be undefeated had it not been for that false call...

I hope this helps

Lehigh didn't even get a first down in overtime. They made it to the UNH 22. I rest my case.

[Twentysix]

and, if fact, the only loss this year was due to a whacked-out ref call during overtime. Othewise you would be looking at one of only 3 undefeated teams left in the FCS...

You cant play that card, we could of been the NC last year if not for a bad call in eastern washington during overtime, and we couldnt even throw a forward pass. :p.

[Dane96]

Sounds like maybe this satisfies all?

The first tier
Colonial Athletic Association
Southern Conference
Big Sky Conference

Knocking on the door
MVFC

The 2nd Tier:
Southland Conference
Ohio Valley Conference

The Rest:
Northeast Conference
Mideast Athletic Conference
Patriot League
Big South Conference

The Irrelevant:
Ivy League
Pioneer League
Southwest Athletic Conference

Again, aside from an upset last year...what has the OVC done but consistently been mediocre as a conference.

[Dane96]

[QUOTE=Twentysix;1710476]Does the MEAC really belong in the middle? Just curious.[/QUOTE

xnodx Honestly yes. The programs have been improving tremendously in the last few years. The competition this year has been great and I believe it is worthy of being in the middle. Too much trashing of the MEAC continues based on the past. However, the coaching and play level is improving dramatically. Three games against FBS schools were all winnable this year (NSU vs. West Virginia, B-CU vs. Miaimi, and SCSU vs. Indiana). Let's take a closer look, instead of just repeating what everyone else thinks.

Honestly, everyone keeps saying that the MEAC only deserves one team in this year, but an 8-3 team with a 20 team field, would not surprise me if we get two teams in. Great competition this year and some good coaching as well. Just food for thought.

UH What? Improving tremendously. I'd say that is a HUGE Pinnochio story you've been told.

[Twentysix]

Here's how I would rank the conference hierarchy, and I am not counting the Great West b/c it's bascially a zombie conference, and I am not counting Independents since most of them at the moment are FBS bound.

Most of the Great West are not FBS bound. There are five Great West football schools. Four are going to the Big Sky and one is going to the MVFC.

Cal Poly UC Davis Southern Utah North Dakota to the Big Sky, South Dakota to the MVFC.

Pretty sure the FBS bound meant independents.

Does that make more sense to you?

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

My vote for "clueless" of the year.


Meant solid not sold.

Your conference is not any better than the Patriot.

Albany beat St. Francis 41-20 (21-7 at half)....Bison won 56-3, which could have been 80-0. But I'm sure Albany would lead the MV just like Lehigh would....xeyebrowx

[Twentysix]

Our 3rd stringers got alot of time in that game. SFU was awesome!

Games like that pay a different type of dividen. Some 3rd string newb got his jitters out in that game so he doesnt have them in the playoffs :D

The NEC almost challening our 3rd and 4th string players since (insert conference creation date)

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Our 3rd stringers got alot of time in that game. SFU was awesome!

Games like that pay a different type of dividen. Some 3rd string newb got his jitters out in that game so he doesnt have them in the playoffs :D

The NEC almost challening our 3rd and 4th string players since (insert conference creation date)


Come on 26.....any NEC team would lead the Valley just cus they are from the east......lol

[MTfan4life]

My stab at it all.

Elite Tier
1. CAA - There's usually a handful of teams every year that have a shot at the NC.
2. Southern Conference - Title shots usually are limited to App, Woff, and GSU, but the others always have the potential to be quarterfinal material.

Not Deep or Consistent Enough to be Elite Tier
3. Big Sky - Montana has kept this league relevant at times, but Weber, EWU, and MSU have kept it up there as well. Bottom half needs work for Sky to be elite.
4. MVFC - It's only under the Big Sky because of it's minimal playoff success as of late. It hasn't fared too well against the Sky/CAA/SoCon in the past 8 or so years. Still strong and balanced conference with possible contenders every year.

Not bunched with Sky and MVC anymore Tier
5. Southland - In a class of it's own, but dropping as it used to be right up there with 3 & 4. Had a couple semifinal appearances a handful of years ago, and a couple quarterfinals since then as well. Needs to rebound from past couple years of struggle.

The break here is narrowing, but in recent years it was much greater.

Seems strong, but doesn't win in the playoffs tier
6. Patriot - Their top team will look tough and sometimes play tough, but this conference hasn't produced a quarterfinalist since Colgate's run to the title game in 03.
7. OVC - They've gotten a lot of recognition in rankings, but they haven't proven it in a while. Last season they sent two to the playoffs and both lost out.
8. MEAC - Had an at large berth last season. That might not happen again for a while, but who knows?

15/16 seeds if it were college basketball tier
Big South/NEC

Might as well be Independents tier
SWAC/Pioneer/Ivy

Seemingly only there for transitional stage teams, but still has Cal Poly tier
Great West - There has been some strong teams in this conference over the years, but I'm pretty sure there won't be any teams left by next season.

[Twentysix]

Come on 26.....any NEC team would lead the Valley just cus they are from the east......lol

2010 Robert Morris goes 7-1 in the NEC. NDSU wins 43-17 NDSU complete's 10 passes.
2009 Wagner goes 5-3 in the NEC. NDSU goes 3-8 overall beating wagner by 31 points with mertens at the helm.
2008 CCSU goes 7-4 overall, NDSU wins 50-14 with another below average NDSU team led by mertens.

I dont exactly have the best impression of NEC schools.

You gotta remeber in 2010 NDSU was tied for 3rd-8th (5 schools were 4-4) in the MVFC and the NEC champion was little contest. Saying their champion would be middle of the pack in the MVFC is a giant exaggeration.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

2010 Robert Morris goes 7-1 in the NEC. NDSU wins 43-17 NDSU complete's 10 passes.
2009 Wagner goes 5-3 in the NEC. NDSU goes 3-8 overall beating wagner by 31 points with mertens at the helm.
2008 CCSU goes 7-4 overall, NDSU wins 50-14 with another below average NDSU team led by mertens.

I dont exactly have the best impression of NEC schools.

You gotta remeber in 2010 NDSU was tied for 3rd-8th (5 schools were 4-4) in the MVFC and the NEC champion was little contest. Saying their champion would be middle of the pack in the MVFC is a giant exaggeration.


In any year, the Bison would have little trouble with the NEC champ.

[danefan]

Meant solid not sold.

Your conference is not any better than the Patriot.

Albany beat St. Francis 41-20 (21-7 at half)....Bison won 56-3, which could have been 80-0. But I'm sure Albany would lead the MV just like Lehigh would....xeyebrowx


Our 3rd stringers got alot of time in that game. SFU was awesome!

Games like that pay a different type of dividen. Some 3rd string newb got his jitters out in that game so he doesnt have them in the playoffs :D

The NEC almost challening our 3rd and 4th string players since (insert conference creation date)


Come on 26.....any NEC team would lead the Valley just cus they are from the east......lol


2010 Robert Morris goes 7-1 in the NEC. NDSU wins 43-17 NDSU complete's 10 passes.
2009 Wagner goes 5-3 in the NEC. NDSU goes 3-8 overall beating wagner by 31 points with mertens at the helm.
2008 CCSU goes 7-4 overall, NDSU wins 50-14 with another below average NDSU team led by mertens.

I dont exactly have the best impression of NEC schools.

You gotta remeber in 2010 NDSU was tied for 3rd-8th (5 schools were 4-4) in the MVFC and the NEC champion was little contest. Saying their champion would be middle of the pack in the MVFC is a giant exaggeration.

I think you're all putting words in Dane96's mouth just have something to argue about.

Not once did anyone argue the NECs position in the pecking order. Whatever the bottom tier is for playoff conferences, we're certainly in it. The real question is what have some of these other conferences done to justify not being in the exact same spot? MEAC?

No one said anyone from the NEC would win the MVFC. Shoot no one even said the NEC was better than the Patriot this year.

All D96 is saying is that nobody better sleep on Lehigh. Anyone who has seen them play this year knows that. Anyone who refuses to accept that is clueless.

[Twentysix]

I think you're all putting words in Dane96's mouth just have something to argue about.

Not once did anyone argue the NECs position in the pecking order. Whatever the bottom tier is for playoff conferences, we're certainly in it. The real question is what have some of these other conferences done to justify not being in the exact same spot? MEAC?

No one said anyone from the NEC would win the MVFC. Shoot no one even said the NEC was better than the Patriot this year.

All D96 is saying is that nobody better sleep on Lehigh. Anyone who has seen them play this year knows that. Anyone who refuses to accept that is clueless.

Only one of those posts had anything to do with Dane96 and its the first one.

[TheRevSFA]

Eh..I'll honestly take being 2nd tier.

In our conference, you have McNeese, Sam, then SFA...

....

UCA, NW State

....
...
...
...
...
..and then the rest.

[danefan]

Only one of those posts had anything to do with Dane96 and its the first one.

The rest had everything to do with a leap that he was arguing the NEC was somehow better than the MVFC or that Albany was better than NDSU.

[Twentysix]

The rest had everything to do with a leap that he was arguing the NEC was somehow better than the MVFC or that Albany was better than NDSU.

It was a contrast to a lehigh fan and his comment that insinuated Lehigh would beat NDSU.

[danefan]

It was a contrast to a lehigh fan and his comment that insinuated Lehigh would beat NDSU.

And a leap to the fact that D96 thought the same way that The Fan does.

[Twentysix]

And a leap to the fact that D96 thought the same way that The Fan does.


My vote for "clueless" of the year.

Sure thing.

[danefan]

Sure thing.

i should have clarified....he does think the same thing about Lehigh....as do many of us.

What I meant was that it was a leap to think that he thought the same thing about any NEC team that The Fan thinks about Lehigh.

[Twentysix]

i should have clarified....he does think the same thing about Lehigh....as do many of us.

What I meant was that it was a leap to think that he thought the same thing about any NEC team that The Fan thinks about Lehigh.

Are you always a flip flopper?

[danefan]

Are you always a flip flopper?

Clarifying and flip flopping are vastly different things.

You obviously misunderstood my post and most of the rest above and I clarified for you.

Arguing for the sake of arguing....again.

[jhanel]

Eh..I'll honestly take being 2nd tier.

In our conference, you have McNeese, Sam, then SFA...

....

UCA, NW State

....
...
...
...
...
..and then the rest.

smh...xchinscratchx

[TheRevSFA]

smh...xchinscratchx

Sorry Hanel..MOST seasons you have it like that.

NW State is putting together a hell of a season and I sincerely hope we don't see the Chief go back across the Sabine

[BisonBacker]

Lehigh soundly beat the best MVC team in the playoffs last year, so live with it

This is 2011 so Live with it LOL!

[RichH2]

Hopefully Lehigh will be coming to Fargo for a playoff game so they can prove what a "powerhouse" the Patriot League is.

I'm sure it would be a score like our Lafayette game.....Bison blow-out!

Haven't heard anyone even hinting that PL is a powerhouse, but if you're equating lehigh with Lafayette you will be surprised. Lehigh is a very good team.No doubt we do not have the depth of talent as some Socon or CAA teams but I willmatch our starters up against most ,particularly on Offense

[Lehigh Football Nation]

All D96 is saying is that nobody better sleep on Lehigh. Anyone who has seen them play this year knows that. Anyone who refuses to accept that is clueless.

Nah. No need for any MVFC team to prepare for Lehigh. Nothing to see here... Obviously the Missouri Valley is so much better than the Patriot, they won't need to prepare much at all. They're "top stratus" - Lehigh's in a nothing conference. xlolx

[RichH2]

Nah. No need for any MVFC team to prepare for Lehigh. Nothing to see here... Obviously the Missouri Valley is so much better than the Patriot, they won't need to prepare much at all. They're "top stratus" - Lehigh's in a nothing conference. xlolx

Gee,what was I thinking. LFN you are absolutely correct. How dare we even think of competing against a Missouri Valley team much less anyone from the sacrosanct halls of the CAA or the Socon.

[frozennorth]

So let me get this straight. Following this logic, since the ACC qualified for the same number of BCS bowls as the SEC, Pac-Ten and Big XII, they're just as good as those conferences?

The acc has only had. 1 at large bid in its history, iirc. The big10 sec and big12 get an at large nearly annually.

[Doc QB]

My stab at it all.

Elite Tier
1. CAA - There's usually a handful of teams every year that have a shot at the NC.
2. Southern Conference - Title shots usually are limited to App, Woff, and GSU, but the others always have the potential to be quarterfinal material.

Not Deep or Consistent Enough to be Elite Tier
3. Big Sky - Montana has kept this league relevant at times, but Weber, EWU, and MSU have kept it up there as well. Bottom half needs work for Sky to be elite.
4. MVFC - It's only under the Big Sky because of it's minimal playoff success as of late. It hasn't fared too well against the Sky/CAA/SoCon in the past 8 or so years. Still strong and balanced conference with possible contenders every year.

Not bunched with Sky and MVC anymore Tier
5. Southland - In a class of it's own, but dropping as it used to be right up there with 3 & 4. Had a couple semifinal appearances a handful of years ago, and a couple quarterfinals since then as well. Needs to rebound from past couple years of struggle.

The break here is narrowing, but in recent years it was much greater.

Seems strong, but doesn't win in the playoffs tier
6. Patriot - Their top team will look tough and sometimes play tough, but this conference hasn't produced a quarterfinalist since Colgate's run to the title game in 03.
7. OVC - They've gotten a lot of recognition in rankings, but they haven't proven it in a while. Last season they sent two to the playoffs and both lost out.
8. MEAC - Had an at large berth last season. That might not happen again for a while, but who knows?

15/16 seeds if it were college basketball tier
Big South/NEC

Might as well be Independents tier
SWAC/Pioneer/Ivy

Seemingly only there for transitional stage teams, but still has Cal Poly tier
Great West - There has been some strong teams in this conference over the years, but I'm pretty sure there won't be any teams left by next season.

I think this is the best stab at it overall. And when you look team by team and playoff successes (a pretty useful barometer sometimes) the CAA is probably unique in that a broader range of teams have made much noise in the playoffs and winning/playing in the title game often the last ten seasons and wider range of schools earning at-large bids.

Not to take anything away from some of the dynastic teams that had tremendous stretches with going to NC game annually (think YSU, GSU, Montana, Marshall, App St), but they seem to come from conferences that are typically very top heavy, with the same teams typically making the noise each year. The post about the at-large bids seems to support this, as I bet you would see same teams getting them from Big Sky, MVFC/Gateway, SoCon, while the CAA has a multitude. The Big Sky, MVFC, SoCon are usually a big two and the also-rans.

[Professor Chaos]

So let me get this straight. Following this logic, since the ACC qualified for the same number of BCS bowls as the SEC, Pac-Ten and Big XII, they're just as good as those conferences?
No, if the ACC had as many or more at large BCS selections and had won nearly as many BCS bowls as the SEC, Pac 10, and Big 12, then they could be classified in the same group as those conferences.

[URMite]

Haven't heard anyone even hinting that PL is a powerhouse, but if you're equating lehigh with Lafayette you will be surprised. Lehigh is a very good team.No doubt we do not have the depth of talent as some Socon or CAA teams but I willmatch our starters up against most ,particularly on Offense

I don't know what you are talking about
...if you can beat Lafayette then you should have no problem with Lehigh.
...And if you can beat WCU you should have no problem with GA SO...xlolx

[Humble Steward]

[QUOTE=Humble Steward;1710733]

UH What? Improving tremendously. I'd say that is a HUGE Pinnochio story you've been told.

The MEAC this year and last has seen a shift in coaches and offensive schemes being put in place to make the competition much more respectable. South Carolina St. was dominant for about 3-4 years and pretty much ran through the MEAC. Not anymore. Just as on any given saturday for other conferences, the MEAC is capable of beating each other. It would not surprise me if the MEAC champion has two losses in the conference this year. Norfolk St. is no way out of the woods and should not be deemed the only team that is going to make the playoffs this year. An 8-3 team from the MEAC should (and probably will) get consideration over some sliding team this year in a 20 team playoff field. You can agree or disagree on that.

However, back to MEAC football. I'm the first to admit that we have not won a playoff game in years. However, that does not mean that the conference is not improving. This is not a lie, it's just a fact. I'm not basing this on the past, just on the level of play that I've seen thus far. Three competitive games against FBS schools showed me alot this year. I was at the game against Miami, and I tell you the stats alone tell you how competitive we were. Norfolk St led West Virginia going into halftime and South Carolina St. matched up well against Indiana. The scheduling of teams has improved as well. I think you will see more OOC games fromt the MEAC in the future and surely we will need to win some of these games to garner some respect about our conference. However, I will not accept the fact that the programs are not improvingxnodx.

[RichH2]

I don't know what you are talking about
...if you can beat Lafayette then you should have no problem with Lehigh.
...And if you can beat WCU you should have no problem with GA SO...xlolx

xthumbsupx:D Funny line thanks. Of course logic must outweigh commonsense to some people particularly MV fansxconfusedx

[jhanel]

Eh..I'll honestly take being 2nd tier.

In our conference, you have McNeese, Sam, then SFA...

....

UCA, NW State

....
...
...
...
...
..and then the rest.

SLC Champs 1987-2010:

McNeese-10
Northwestern State-4
SFA-4
Sam Houston-3

Record 1987-2010: (includes playoffs)

McNeese - 185-100-2
SFA - 145-127-5
Northwestern State -144-129-2
Sam Houston - 128-133-6

NSU's Record vs:

- McNeese - 21-39-1 (includes 2011)
- Sam Houston - 19-14 (through 2010)
- SFA - 43-21-3 (through 2010)

Hmmmmmmmm.......xchinscratchx xoopsx

[TheRevSFA]

Fine fine...

McNeese (Hanel you can't argue that McNeese is the powerhouse of our conference)
...
...
SFA/Sam/NWST (in no particular order)
..
UCA
..
..
..
everyone else.

[jhanel]

Fine fine...

McNeese (Hanel you can't argue that McNeese is the powerhouse of our conference)
...
...
SFA/Sam/NWST (in no particular order)
..
UCA
..
..
..
everyone else.

:D

[daneboy]

xconfusedxxconfusedxxconfusedxWHAT IS A "ZOMBIE" CONFERENCE?xconfusedxxconfusedx

AND, FOR ALL OF YOU THAT DON'T KNOW THEY PLAY FOOTBALL WEST OF THE MISSISSIPPI RIVER, THE GREAT WEST FOOTBALL CONFERENCE IS, IN FACT, DISPANDING NEXT YEAR, WITH FOUR OF THE TEAMS GOING TO THE BIG SKY AND THE OTHER TO MVC.

[veinup]

is it bad that i can't even find missouri on a map?

[MTfan4life]

It will be nice come December when this guy will be eating crow for every meal.

[crusader11]

Yes, Lehigh would beat NDSU if they met in the Playoffs

Would Lehigh lose to anyone in the playoffs?

[Dgreenwell3]

Yes, Lehigh would beat NDSU if they met in the Playoffs

Tell you what....if this does happen or Lehigh loses to any other MVFC school, you get yourself IP banned from here...forever. Deal?

[TheBisonator]

Yes, Lehigh would beat NDSU if they met in the Playoffs

This is the kind of remark that doesn't even get me upset, or make me LOL hard. It just gives me a big grin on my face and pity for the person who wrote it.

[TheBisonator]

lets see if I can understand this

if Lehigh beats NDSU or loses to any other MVFC school I would be banned?

do you have any idea how moronic this statement is?

get lost

Do you have any idea how moronic the statement you made two posts ago was??

[tribefan40]

Yes, Lehigh would beat NDSU if they met in the Playoffs

Defend this. No smack. Just curious.

[TheBisonator]

Defend this. No smack. Just curious.

He can't. He's just throwing out s**t.

App State. GSU. Montana State. SHSU. Those are teams I fear in the playoffs. Lehigh... No.

[Dane96]

2010 Robert Morris goes 7-1 in the NEC. NDSU wins 43-17 NDSU complete's 10 passes.
2009 Wagner goes 5-3 in the NEC. NDSU goes 3-8 overall beating wagner by 31 points with mertens at the helm.
2008 CCSU goes 7-4 overall, NDSU wins 50-14 with another below average NDSU team led by mertens.

I dont exactly have the best impression of NEC schools.

You gotta remeber in 2010 NDSU was tied for 3rd-8th (5 schools were 4-4) in the MVFC and the NEC champion was little contest. Saying their champion would be middle of the pack in the MVFC is a giant exaggeration.

So...what about other top teams over the year from alleged top leagues that got hammered in the playoffs; do they leave little impression on you as well? Come on...use your brain instead of making broadsweeping statements.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

He can't. He's just throwing out s**t.

App State. GSU. Montana State. SHSU. Those are teams I fear in the playoffs. Lehigh... No.

From your keyboard to every Lehigh players' locker.

And you threw SHSU in there? xlolx

[Dgreenwell3]

I feel like the fan really isn't a lehigh fan but wants to give lehigh fans a bad rep.

[TheBisonator]

From your keyboard to every Lehigh players' locker.

And you threw SHSU in there? xlolx

If they're the type of smart guys that Lehigh is supposed to matriculate, they won't care what a random message board poster says...

[Dgreenwell3]

If they're the type of smart guys that Lehigh is supposed to matriculate, they won't care what a random message board poster says...

Thank you. People don't think what you say here has any effect on the game. This is a place for fans to speculate: likely nothing more.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I feel like the fan really isn't a lehigh fan but wants to give lehigh fans a bad rep.

Agreed.

[ngineer]

That's because we're talking conferences not best teams in a conference, superstar.

How about your team beats a top 25 program and then get back to us?

The Patriot League has one top 25 program and it's overrated...

What do you mean? Win over Liberty and only loss is OT to New Hampshire. Beat Northern Iowa..at their place..last year in playoffs. If you don't think we belong, then you are posting purely on prejudice and ignore whatever facts fly in the face of your statement.

[RichH2]

I feel like the fan really isn't a lehigh fan but wants to give lehigh fans a bad rep.

We dont know him either.he doesn't post on any of our boards ,just here and he uses a Princeton avatar. By his spacy logic we should never lose and never have lost. Last year was nice.Had a nice run til UD cleaned our clocks. This year we are a better team ,so I hope we do better in the playoffs,if we make them. 3 more games. Then I'll worry about the playoffs.

I do hope , if we get in,to see a MV school .Great fans and nice people at UNI. For some reason ,we can beat you MV guys but CAA not so much

[Dgreenwell3]

ha!

how about if any MVFC team loses in the playoffs, YOU GET LOST, and never return

how is that?

It's physically impossible for them not to lose. Clearly you didn't go to lehigh because you couldn't even do that simple deducing. This is the basic deflect of, "I cant do it because I will lose" deflect...it's ok pretty much everyone sees thru it.

[RichH2]

LFN

so you believe that The Fan is not a Lehigh fan?

are you sure that you want to say this?

think a little first before you post

FAN

We know you root for Lehigh. Question is did you go to Lehigh? In any event, some of your points are well taken. I 've agreed with some also. Unfortunately, you then take off into LALA land with didactic proclamations. You appear to spend more time trolling for responses leading to interminable p*ssing contests taking up space and signifying zilch. It would be nice if you could exercise some selfcontrol.

[Dgreenwell3]

LFN

so you believe that The Fan is not a Lehigh fan?

are you sure that you want to say this?

think a little first before you post

You should follow your own logic.

[ngineer]

FAN

We know you root for Lehigh. Question is did you go to Lehigh? In any event, some of your points are well taken. I 've agreed with some also. Unfortunately, you then take off into LALA land with didactic proclamations. You appear to spend more time trolling for responses leading to interminable p*ssing contests taking up space and signifying zilch. It would be nice if you could exercise some selfcontrol.

+1

[tribefan40]

sure no problem

the top QB in the FCS, Lehigh's Lum, would pass for 380 yards and 5 TD's against NDSU, with 150 yards and 3 TD's going to the top WR in the FCS, Spadola, while its RB Barket would rush for 150 yards and 2 TD's.

final score Lehigh 52-28

What is this based on? Offensive/Defensive schemes? I have no doubt that Lehigh has talent and is a solid team, and Lum has certainly put up the numbers this year, but what are the x's and o's behind 500+ yards of offense and 50+ points? Again, just curious.

[RichH2]

What is this based on? Offensive/Defensive schemes? I have no doubt that Lehigh has talent and is a solid team, and Lum has certainly put up the numbers this year, but what are the x's and o's behind 500+ yards of offense and 50+ points? Again, just curious.

I refer you to "One flew overthe cuckoo's nest"

[Side Judge]

Did a little pruning here - could we move on please?

[MSUBobcat]

FAN

We know you root for Lehigh. Question is did you go to Lehigh? In any event, some of your points are well taken. I 've agreed with some also. Unfortunately, you then take off into LALA land with didactic proclamations. You appear to spend more time trolling for responses leading to interminable p*ssing contests taking up space and signifying zilch. It would be nice if you could exercise some selfcontrol.

+1

[Reign of Terrier]

how long until The Fan enters the redzone of rep? time will only tell

[Mr. C]

The AGS army is working on it, youngterrier.

[Doc QB]

FAN

We know you root for Lehigh. Question is did you go to Lehigh? In any event, some of your points are well taken. I 've agreed with some also. Unfortunately, you then take off into LALA land with didactic proclamations. You appear to spend more time trolling for responses leading to interminable p*ssing contests taking up space and signifying zilch. It would be nice if you could exercise some selfcontrol.

not to be redundant, but.......+1

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

sure no problem

the top QB in the FCS, Lehigh's Lum, would pass for 380 yards and 5 TD's against NDSU, with 150 yards and 3 TD's going to the top WR in the FCS, Spadola, while its RB Barket would rush for 150 yards and 2 TD's.

final score Lehigh 52-28



Being gone all day it has fun reading what some of you guys write on here.

52-28.....LOL NDSU has the best defense in the FCS. NO frickin way you ever score 52 on us.

Teams that could come into the Fargodome and beat us are: G Southern, Appy State, UNI, and the Montana schools. No way any NEC or Patriot team would beat us in Fargo.

If the Bison can win out, it will be hard for any team to beat us in our own place.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

gee, weren't we hearing this about the UNIDome last year around the beginning of playoffs

what happened then?

oops!



Troll...enough said!

[AppMAN04]

Why all of the references to last year? Can someone explain to me what the big deal about Lehigh is all about? its been page after page talking about a team who is not even going to be relevant come December....

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Why all of the references to last year? Can someone explain to me what the big deal about Lehigh is all about? its been page after page talking about a team who is not even going to be relevant come December....


Point taken!!

Good one at that....

[DJKyR0]

I like how Denarius McGhee goes for 223 yards, 1 TD and 1 INT on 19/32 passing at home on our defense last season, yet Chris Lum is throwing for 380 and 5 in Fargo. Let me know where the bookies are, I've got a farm to bet.

[DJKyR0]

oh, that is just an average night for Lehigh's Chris Lum

but you knew that already

Sure, an average night against a non-scholarship defense comparable to the one NDSU shredded in Week 1. Let's not start comparing a Patriot League defense to one of the, if not the single, best in the nation. I'll challenge you to find a secondary as good as NDSU's that you've faced thus far, and bonus points if you can do it without using the word "oops" to presume you're right on a probably-bogus point of conjecture.

[CopperCat]

1. East coast
2. Everybody else

[DJKyR0]

sorry, but only 3 of Lehigh's 8 games have been against Patriot League teams so far

and the passing yard average is mostly for 3/4's of play per game for Lum.

now,

Lets take a look at how Lum did against one of the top CAA teams, one which is currently ranked 11th in the AGS poll released today, UNH, and against 15th ranked Liberty:

Lehigh's Chris Lum passing stats against

11th ranked UNH:
36/54, 401 yards passing
6 passing TD's

15th ranked Liberty
18/38, 300 yards passing
2 passing TD's


average against UNH and Liberty:
27/46 per game
350 yards passing/game
4 TD's/game

New Hampshire: 115th in total defense allowing 449 yards per game. 96th in national scoring defense.
Liberty: A better-looking 21st but primarily against a pretty weaksauce Big South.

Boy howdy, are we ever doomed.

[FargoBison]

Throw it against NDSU...I dare you......

http://www.ndsuspectrum.com/polopoly_fs/1.2626812!/image/3747315742.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_240/3747315742.jpg

[frozennorth]

Uni hadn't tossed an interception all year until they got to the fargodome. How'd that turn out?

[Dgreenwell3]

nope, you aren't doomed at all, but lets just take a look at how porous NDSU pass defense is:

now, lets see how NDSU defense has done against two ranked opponents, #7 UNI and #16 Illinois State:

Passing Yards allowed by NDSU against #7 UNI and #16 Illinois State:

292 yards - UNI
270 yards- Illinois State


So are you telling us that Lehigh, the #8th ranked team in the country, with the top passing offense in the country, who averaged 350 yards passing and 4 passing TD's against two of the top ranked teams in the country, #11 UNH and #15 Liberty, is not going to have an average passing day against NDSU, who has been shredded for 281 yards passing per game by two similar ranked teams, #7 UNI and #16 Illiniois State?

hint: UNI has averaged 196 yards passing/game and Illinois State has averagedf 208 yards per game, so NDSU allowed almost 100 yards/game MORE than the average passing yardage for each of these fine institutions.

There is a reason those two schools had to throw the ball...I am neutral here but ndsu effectively shut down their down hill running game. Check out the attempted passes in comparison.

[Squealofthepig]

Throw it against NDSU...I dare you......

http://www.ndsuspectrum.com/polopoly_fs/1.2626812!/image/3747315742.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_240/3747315742.jpg

I'd actually really like to see Lum play against NDSU; his passing yards are just out of this world, but he also has a tendency to complete passes to, err, opposing players (12 picks this year, second only to Elon's Thomas Wilson, at a staggering 18). He's fifth in QB rating overall, and heck, I'd drive over to Fargo to watch Lehigh play there!

[frozennorth]

ha!...but but but

that is what you told UNI...and what happened?

yards passing against NDSU
292 yards - UNI


then that is what you told Illinois State and what happened then?

yards passing against NDSU
270 yards- Illinois State
And they gave up 27 points between both those games combined.

I'm not sure, but the ndsu defense might have score more td's this years than they've allowed.

[FargoBison]

ha!...but but but

that is what you told UNI...and what happened?

yards passing against NDSU
292 yards - UNI


then that is what you told Illinois State and what happened then?

yards passing against NDSU
270 yards- Illinois State

Yawn.....UNI 19 points....Illinois State 10 points. You want to beat NDSU, you need to run the ball. A passing team plays right into the hands of our ball hawking secondary and physical DL, especially when the defense knows the pass is coming.

[Squealofthepig]

And they gave up 27 points between both those games combined.

I'm not sure, but the ndsu defense might have score more td's this years than they've allowed.

OK, here I'll call BS, no offense. :)

NDSU has had 11 interceptions and six fumbles. None of the fumbles were returned for touchdowns and, while four of the interceptions look to have had zero return, let's assume that all eleven interceptions and six fumbles were returned for touchdowns (102 points).

The Bison have given up 100 points total. That's pretty impressive, but if even one of those turnovers wasn't returned for a touchdown (and a quick perusal of game logs reveals that is the case), your point is false.

It's still damned impressive, though - just wanted to fact-check a rather extraordinary claim. :thumbsup:

[Squealofthepig]

Squeal, I would agree with you on this. Lum's interceptions, I have said all along, are going to be a big problem for Lehigh if he continues to throw that many...

Agree. It's actually impressive how high his QB rating is with all those interceptions, and one has to just look at his TD's and yardage and completion percentage to understand why. I look forward to watching him in the playoffs, to be certain!

[Twentysix]

OK, here I'll call BS, no offense. :)

NDSU has had 11 interceptions and six fumbles. None of the fumbles were returned for touchdowns and, while four of the interceptions look to have had zero return, let's assume that all eleven interceptions and six fumbles were returned for touchdowns (102 points).

The Bison have given up 100 points total. That's pretty impressive, but if even one of those turnovers wasn't returned for a touchdown (and a quick perusal of game logs reveals that is the case), your point is false.

It's still damned impressive, though - just wanted to fact-check a rather extraordinary claim. :thumbsup:

NDSU returned a fumble for a TD just 2 days ago?? Have you not seen all the purple pussies crying on these threads about it?

No where near 100 points scored by the defense though. Something like 30.

Marcus Williams has 18 points, Kyle Emanuel has 6 points, Bobby Ollman has 6 points, and Carlton Littlejohn has 6 points.

[MSUBobcat]

To be factually accurate to both arguments, 4 of Lehigh's 8 games (Yale #90, Bucknell #104, Princeton #114, and UNH #120, which is DEAD LAST) have been against teams in the bottom 25% of the FCS against the pass. In fact, the average pass defense rating of the teams Lehigh played is 78.5, which is not exactly intimidating. However, their next game is against Holy Cross and they are #11 v. the pass so this will give us a good barometer of Lum's skill.

On the other side, NDSU is only the 54th ranked pass defense, so Lehigh has reason to think they would have success against them. The passing offenses that NDSU has been about average (SDSU #12, Lafayette #40, ISU(r) #55, SIU (#61), UNI (#62), MoSt. (#78) and poor St. Francis (#94) for an average of ~57.5, middle of the pack). They seem to do a good job at the takeaways and beat the snot out of the #12 pass offense on their own field 38-14.

Also, to compare winning at 7-4 UNI team that had 6k fans due to T-giving weekend(little over 40% of their normal crowd) to having to go to a top ranked NDSU team that will have 19k in their dome is like comparing apples to lugnuts - so far from the same category its not worth mentioning again.

[Twentysix]

I have no doubt Lehigh would throw for 400 yards on us. I also have no doubt Lehigh would only score 17 points the whole game, tops.

Yards dont win games, points do. Wrapped into those 400 lehigh yards would be 2 or 3 defensive touchdowns for NDSU which would completely counter balance the 2 break away plays they get.

[Dgreenwell3]

OK, here I'll call BS, no offense. :)

NDSU has had 11 interceptions and six fumbles. None of the fumbles were returned for touchdowns and, while four of the interceptions look to have had zero return, let's assume that all eleven interceptions and six fumbles were returned for touchdowns (102 points).

The Bison have given up 100 points total. That's pretty impressive, but if even one of those turnovers wasn't returned for a touchdown (and a quick perusal of game logs reveals that is the case), your point is false.

It's still damned impressive, though - just wanted to fact-check a rather extraordinary claim. :thumbsup:

Ndsu returned a fumble for a td in their last game.

[Squealofthepig]

NDSU returned a fumble for a TD just 2 days ago?? Have you not seen all the purple pussies crying on these threads about it?

Oh, I'm well aware - my point was that if even one of those wasn't returned, it renders the hypothesis that the defense has scored more than the offense has allowed as false. I was assuming all turnovers were returned for touchdowns as it was a very easy number to quantify (102 vs. 100).

Oh, and source for all of this was http://www.gobison.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=2400&ATCLID=205268213 - some good numbers to look over, and kudos to the Bison site for having these easily available.

[Twentysix]

Sorry, but I didn't know that Frisco, TX, where Lehigh and NDSU might meet in the playoffs, has a dome.

Now you know.

[Squealofthepig]

Sorry, but I didn't know that Frisco, TX, where Lehigh and NDSU might meet in the playoffs, has a dome.

That would assume Lehigh has a top two seed (as one of the top two seeds is basically guaranteed to the Bison so long as they take care of business). While possible, I think you will need help (App dropping another (interesting game this weekend at the Furple), Maine losing to Towson, GSU dropping another, MSU losing the Brawl of the Wild). One game at a time, though - take care of the Hoyas this weekend first!

[MSUBobcat]

I have no doubt Lehigh would throw for 400 yards on us. I also have no doubt Lehigh would only score 17 points the whole game, tops.

Yards dont win games, points do. Wrapped into those 400 lehigh yards would be 2 or 3 defensive touchdowns for NDSU which would completely counter balance the 2 break away plays they get.

NDSU does seem to have a bend but don't break defense. Every team they have played has been held to less points than their season average (about 12 ppg less) except for, surprisingly, Mo. St, who score 3 more than their season average.

[Squealofthepig]

nope, neither Lehigh or NDSU needs a top two seed for them to meet in Frisco, provided they are put in two separate brackets....

as an example, Lehigh and NDSU would have met in the Chamipionship game, if each would have won out in 2010, based on where they were put in the brackets:

http://www.championshipsubdivision.com/history-of-the-fcs-playoffs/

Good point, inferred from this (and other posts) you were just assuming it'd be a cakewalk to the NC. I know how the brackets work, having been to two championship games for my Griz in the past couple of years. Stupid Spiders and Wildcats. *heh*

[MSUBobcat]

nope, neither Lehigh or NDSU needs a top two seed for them to meet in Frisco, provided they are put in two separate brackets....

as an example, Lehigh and NDSU would have met in the Chamipionship game, if each would have won out in 2010, based on where they were put in the brackets - and neither was a top 2 seed:

http://www.championshipsubdivision.com/history-of-the-fcs-playoffs/

You are correct. I read too much into your posts apparently, that because Lehigh beat UNI in their dome last year they could do the same to the Bison, which I think would be a tall order for any team.

[MTfan4life]

sorry, but NDSU has never seen such a gifted duo of Wide Receivers as Lehigh's Spadola and Drwal. They HAVE to be double covered or else will destroy you. And when you double cover these two superstars - whamoooo, Lum throws to his tight ends or RB Zack Barket, who already has twenty something receptions this year in only 8 games.

Oh, and if you say that the NDSU defensive line is going to get to Lehigh QB Lum, then you have a surprise coming, for the Lehigh Offenive Cordinator is the same one that produced Will Rackley, the only FCS football player to start in the NFL this year as a rookie..

Lehigh's "gifted duo" has never seen a defense at the quality of NDSU.

[Twentysix]

The griz and cat fans defending NDSU against the princeto...lehigh fan brings a tear to my eye.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGes7FDmHAM

[Strommer10]

The griz and cat fans defending NDSU against the princeto...lehigh fan brings a tear to my eye.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGes7FDmHAM

xlolx quite the strange turn of events xnodx

[MSUBobcat]

The griz and cat fans defending NDSU against the princeto...lehigh fan brings a tear to my eye.

I wouldn't go so far as to say I'm defending. Just pointing out the statistical facts. NDSU isn't a superb defense against the pass, yard-wise anyway. They DO have yet to give up more than 24 pts(FBS) or 21 pts(FCS), so, like someone mentioned, yards don't win games. And due to being originally from ND for the 1st 17 years of my life (but MT my last 15), my loyalties in FCS are: MSU (alma mater), UM (only other school in my new "home"), UND (dad played baseball there and LOVE hockey, go SIOUX!), NDSU (only other school from my native state).

That said, the Bobcats have a vendetta to rectify...

[MSUBobcat]

well, apparently the UNI and Illinois State receivers saw the wonderful NDSU passing defense and completely destroyed it by passing about 100 yards each greater than they have been averaging during the year per game..

oops!

say, it just occurred to me: Haven't you gone into hiding yet?

Not sure that's the best comparison. You say "completely destroyed" but UNI scored 9 less than their season average and ISU(r) scored 18 less than their season average, and both LOST. This goes back to the bend but don't break. They may give up yards, but unless the FCS goes to fantasy football scoring, you still have to get in the end zone.

[MTfan4life]

well, apparently the UNI and Illinois State receivers saw the wonderful NDSU passing defense and completely destroyed it by passing about 100 yards each greater than they have been averaging during the year per game..

oops!

say, it just occurred to me: Haven't you gone into hiding yet?

First, what happened to your App. St. losing thread? I'm still here, but I feel like that went into hiding. oops!

The two teams combined scored 29 points. You keep using yards as a reference. Who cares about yards??? A team can give up all the yards it wants. The game comes down to it's turnover ratio and its performance in the red zone. Illinois State has averaged 28.4 points this season and only scored 10 on the NDSU defense. UNI has averaged 27.9 points and they only managed 19. A game is decided by points. Yards are just statistics. Wins and losses are decided by the score of the game.

[MSUBobcat]

First, what happened to your App. St. losing thread? I'm still here, but I feel like that went into hiding. oops!

The two teams combined scored 29 points. You keep using yards as a reference. Who cares about yards??? A team can give up all the yards it wants. The game comes down to it's turnover ratio and its performance in the red zone. Illinois State has averaged 28.4 points this season and only scored 10 on the NDSU defense. UNI has averaged 27.9 points and they only managed 19. A game is decided by points. Yards are just statistics. Wins and losses are decided by the score of the game.

Umm, you are about 4 min late with that comment. :D

[Twentysix]

Wow so you are predicting around 56 points on NDSU?

I would love those odds in vegas.

[MSUBobcat]

Well, ok thanks for the response

we were talking about passing yards originally, but now we will talk about scoring

Lehigh QB Chris Lum has thrown for 30 TD's in only 8 games

8 of those TD's have come in two games - against 11th ranked UNH and 15th ranked Liberty


my guess is that Lum would throw between 4 and 5 TD's against NDSU's weak passing defense to go along with those 350-400 yards passing, if they played in the playoffs....

and Lehigh running back Barket would run in about 2 or 3 TD's


I hope this helps

Sure, now we are talking about scoring. NDSU has given up 7 TD via the air. I know... Barket is all of a sudden awesome. Lehigh has 10 rushing TD in 8 games. Has any one mentioned that the Bison running defense is why teams throw against them and that they have allowed 5 rushing TD? Cuz that seems relevant in this discussion.

I hope that helps too.

[MTfan4life]

Well, ok thanks for the response

we were talking about passing yards originally, but now we will talk about scoring

Lehigh QB Chris Lum has thrown for 30 TD's in only 8 games

8 of those TD's have come in two games - against 11th ranked UNH and 15th ranked Liberty


my guess is that Lum would throw between 4 and 5 TD's against NDSU's weak passing defense to go along with those 350-400 yards passing, if they played in the playoffs....

and Lehigh running back Barket would run in about 2 or 3 TD's


I hope this helps

New Hampshire has the 96th best scoring defense in the FCS and NDSU has the 2nd. Why would Lum & Barket do better against the 2nd ranked defense than the 96th ranked defense? I don't think it works to compare the two games.

[seantaylor]

Asian QB's rule. Dim Sum.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Well, ok thanks for the response

we were talking about passing yards originally, but now we will talk about scoring

Lehigh QB Chris Lum has thrown for 30 TD's in only 8 games

8 of those TD's have come in two games - against 11th ranked UNH and 15th ranked Liberty


my guess is that Lum would throw between 4 and 5 TD's against NDSU's weak passing defense to go along with those 350-400 yards passing, if they played in the playoffs....

and Lehigh running back Barket would run in about 2 or 3 TD's


I hope this helps


Man, with all the NFL caliber players that Lehigh has they should blow through the FCS playoffs and win the NC.

Playing a "weak" schedule will certainly "prep" them for this playoff run.

Fan, you are a troll...plain and simple.

[DetroitFlyer]

This is almost too easy....

Embody the True Mission and Essence of FCS
Mideast Athletic Conference
Patriot League
Ivy League
Northeast Conference
Pioneer League
Southwest Athletic Conference

Little Time FBS Wannabees
Southland Conference
Ohio Valley Conference
Big South Conference

Big Time FBS Wannabees
Colonial Athletic Association
Southern Conference
Missouri Valley Football Conference
Big Sky Conference

[Lehigh Football Nation]

This is almost too easy....

Embody the True Mission and Essence of FCS
Mideast Athletic Conference
Patriot League
Ivy League
Northeast Conference
Pioneer League
Southwest Athletic Conference

Little Time FBS Wannabees
Southland Conference
Ohio Valley Conference
Big South Conference

Big Time FBS Wannabees
Colonial Athletic Association
Southern Conference
Missouri Valley Football Conference
Big Sky Conference

DF... from downtown! xlolx

[Reign of Terrier]

This is almost too easy....

Embody the True Mission and Essence of D2 football
Mideast Athletic Conference
Patriot League
Ivy League
Northeast Conference
Pioneer League
Southwest Athletic Conference

Little Time FBS Wannabees
Southland Conference
Ohio Valley Conference
Big South Conference

Big Time FBS Wannabees
Colonial Athletic Association
Southern Conference
Missouri Valley Football Conference
Big Sky Conference

FIFA

[tribefan40]

Big Time FBS Wannabees?
Colonial Athletic Association
Southern Conference

In their entirety? Wait, so schools like W&M, UR, Furman, Wofford, et al? Those schools have as much or more tradition academically and athletically than many/most of your 'true mission' schools, and maintain a high level of success on the playing field. Being in Division One is about competing at the highest level, no?

[DetroitFlyer]

In their entirety? Wait, so schools like W&M, UR, Furman, Wofford, et al? Those schools have as much or more tradition academically and athletically than many/most of your 'true mission' schools, and maintain a high level of success on the playing field. Being in Division One is about competing at the highest level, no?

Of course the list could be further stratified by individual teams, but this exercise was to go by conferences....

[tribefan40]

Of course the list could be further stratified by individual teams, but this exercise was to go by conferences....

Indeed. But labels that apply merely to part or, at most, half of the conference don't seem entirely appropriate. xtwocentsx

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Indeed. But labels that apply merely to part or, at most, half of the conference don't seem entirely appropriate. xtwocentsx

Majority rules.

[tribefan40]

Majority rules.

So... you support my point?

[youwouldno]

It is just an outright falsehood that the "true mission" of I-AA/FCS was to be non-scholarship, skinflint football. Conferences like the SoCon and CAA are exactly was intended and they remain true to the original intent.

[344Johnson]

well, apparently the UNI and Illinois State receivers saw the wonderful NDSU passing defense and completely destroyed it by passing about 100 yards each greater than they have been averaging during the year per game..

UNI threw 2 picks, so did ISU-R. So did Minnesota, so did Southern Illinois. Those are the games that come to mind, a few more against the early season cupcakes I am pretty sure. I'm not going to say Lum would throw two picks. I'm not going to say NDSU would win, but to predict 56 points getting dropped on NDSU is extremely unlikely.

[DetroitFlyer]

It is just an outright falsehood that the "true mission" of I-AA/FCS was to be non-scholarship, skinflint football. Conferences like the SoCon and CAA are exactly was intended and they remain true to the original intent.

PROVE IT! The rules are very clear. If what you are saying is true, the rules would be far, far different. The rules have been developed to be INCLUSIVE for the most part, NOT exclusive. There are a couple of legacy rules that need to be addressed to complete the process, (PFL autobid and the elimination of the FBS counter requirements). FCS football exists for the sole reason of cost control. There is ABSOLUTELY no other reason for the sub-division to exist. Arguing about the level of cost control is actually comical. I stand by my stratification and challenge you to prove me wrong!

[frozennorth]

So lehigh has thrown 30 td's, or 4 per game, against week defensive competition, and you expect to do the same against one of the best defenses in the fcs?

[Dgreenwell3]

Lum passed for 6 TD's against UNH

we are "only" expecting him to pass for about 4 TD against NDSU, a school with a weak pass defense that has allowed more than 100 yards passing per game to UNI and Illinois State than they have been averaging during the season.

but, hey, you knew that already, right?

by the way, what's with changing your normal routine when you leave and enter your home this week?

Average out the attempts with the yards. Neither of those teams were effective not the ground so they HAD to pass. Both of those teams have qbs who can toss the rock but aren't primarily pocket passers. They had to toss the rock; that's called football, numbers lie if you don't look at all of them.

[MSUBobcat]

Average out the attempts with the yards. Neither of those teams were effective not the ground so they HAD to pass. Both of those teams have qbs who can toss the rock but aren't primarily pocket passers. They had to toss the rock; that's called football, numbers lie if you don't look at all of them.

Very true. They can also lie if you don't take them in context either, i.e. strength of opponents.

[Twentysix]

New Hampshire has the 96th best scoring defense in the FCS and NDSU has the 2nd. Why would Lum & Barket do better against the 2nd ranked defense than the 96th ranked defense? I don't think it works to compare the two games.

Who do you think is first? Cause at 12.5 ppg we are #1 in scoring defense...

[Bearkat-Backer]

Who do you think is first? Cause at 12.5 ppg we are #1 in scoring defense...

Nope you are 2nd. SHSU is 1st with 12.38 ppg.

http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/natlRank.jsp?year=2011&rpt=IAA_teamscordef&site=org&div=IAA&dest=O

[Ginsbach]

sorry, but we are talking about passing TD's are we?

then shouldn't we talk about passing defense?

and certainly NDSU does not have one of the best pass defenses, FAR from from it:

Ranking of Pass Efficiency Defense
32nd - NDSU

Ranking of Pass Defense
54th - NDSU


now

lets take a good look at how good the teams that NDSU played against were in passing

oops, it appears not so good:

Ranking of FCS Teams in Passing Yards/game
49th - Lafayette
94th - St. Francis
55th - Illinois State
61st - Southern Illinois
78th - Missouri State
12th - South Dakota State
62nd - Northern Iowa

59th ranking average

Shouldn't we talk about scoring defense? You know, the thing that actually matters when it comes to wins or losses? No matter how many yards you give up or how the touchdowns are scored, the only thing that maters in the end is the final tally.

oops, it appears so good:

Ranking of Scoring Defense
2nd - NDSU

[Twentysix]

Nope you are 2nd. SHSU is 1st with 12.38 ppg.

http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/natlRank.jsp?year=2011&rpt=IAA_teamscordef&site=org&div=IAA&dest=O

Very nice, I was using SI and they still list us as #1.

SI doesnt count lamar as a DI team for some reason and Omitted the 66-0 game. Seems stupid.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/ncaa/stats/2011/diviaa/team/scoring_defense_byDFNS_POINTS_PER_GAME.html

[344Johnson]

sorry, but we are talking about passing TD's are we?

then shouldn't we talk about passing defense?

and certainly NDSU does not have one of the best pass defenses, FAR from from it:

Ranking of Pass Efficiency Defense
32nd - NDSU

Ranking of Pass Defense
54th - NDSU


now

lets take a good look at how good the teams that NDSU played against were in passing

oops, it appears not so good:

Ranking of FCS Teams in Offensive Passing Yards/game
49th - Lafayette
94th - St. Francis
55th - Illinois State
61st - Southern Illinois
78th - Missouri State
12th - South Dakota State
62nd - Northern Iowa

59th ranking average

You forget that teams have no other choice but to throw against NDSU, it is hard as a coach to even consider running the ball when you are down by 2 or 3 scores. It is hard to consider running the ball when NDSU is stopping the run (ala South Dakota St. game and UNI).

Ever notice the Steelers have been one of the best defenses in the league for around 10 years? Look at where their defense typically ranks against the pass. Somewhere between 10-20 if I remember correctly. When teams need to score, they throw the ball.

[Ginsbach]

Oh, wow!

will you look at that?

NDSU has the #2 ranked scoring defense

and since scoring is what it is all about, lets take a look at where NDSU opponents ranked in terms of scording offense:


Ranking of FCS Teams in Scoring Offense
91st - Lafayette
63rd - St. Francis
42nd - Illinois State
88th - Southern Illinois
100th - Missouri State
87th- South Dakota State
44th - Northern Iowa

79th ranking average


Oh my, will you look at this?

NDSU has the 2nd ranking scoring defense, BUT it has faced teams that have averaged as the 79th scoring offense

in the meantime

Lehigh has the 5th ranking Scoring Offense in the FCS

any idea what this 5th ranking Scoring Offense in the FCS is going to do to NDSU?

45 points?
50 points?

more?

Instead of just looking at the rankings, let's look at the raw numbers.

Scoring Offense
Lehigh - 37.13 ppg
NDSU - 35.00 ppg

Scoring Defense
Lehigh -21.00 ppg
NDSU - 12.50 ppg

Lehigh is only scoring 2.13 points per game more than the Bison. They are also allowing 8.5 more points per game.

Oops.

[Professor Chaos]

any idea what this 5th ranking Scoring Offense in the FCS is going to do to NDSU?

45 points?
50 points?

more?
Is this assumption based on the fact that almighty Lehigh put up 34 points on the 98th ranked scoring defense (Princeton)? Or perhaps the 34 points they hung on the 103rd ranked scoring defense (Fordham)? You're right, I'm sure they'd put up 50+ on the Bison.

[F350KINGRANCH]

how do you negative rep someone?

[Ginsbach]

how do you negative rep someone?

Click on the star beneath their information.

Also, TheFan, you've yet to respond to my post using the actual numbers rather than the rankings. Ooops.

[Bearkat-Backer]

It goes both ways Lehigh has played the following ranked scoring defenses:

Monmouth 49
NEW HAMPSHIRE 96
Princeton 98
LIBERTY 14
YALE 40
Bucknell 27
Fordham 103
Colgate 95

For an average of 65.

[F350KINGRANCH]

thanks

[Reign of Terrier]

hit the star on the bottom left of their post and hit "i disapprove". but only use it in rare instances. hit "I approve" often and people like you

[Professor Chaos]

actually it is based on the assumption that the 5th scoring offense in the FCS, Lehigh, will score on the wanna-be defense of NDSU, which has gotten its #2 scoring defense ranking by playing the following FCS ranked offensive scoring teams:

91st - Lafayette
63rd - St. Francis
42nd - Illinois State
88th - Southern Illinois
100th - Missouri State
87th- South Dakota State
44th - Northern Iowa
Makes sense, NDSU is obviously the #2 scoring defense based solely on the lack of quality offenses they've played whereas Lehigh is #5 scoring offense based on the fact that they're just that awesome and not due to the fact that they've played a bunch of swiss cheese defenses.

[Reign of Terrier]

IMO it's easier to have a good offense (especially if you're slinging it around 40 times +) than it is to have a good defense

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

how true.

however, it is easier to have a good defense when you have faced the bottom quarter of the FCS scoring offenses like NDSU has this season.


LOL...you are a joke!!

What is the color of the sky in your world?

Lehigh's schedule is a joke compared to the Bison's. The teams in your league play each other to have stats that are questionable at best.

Like I said before, Lehigh would be a middle of the pack MV team...period. Keep pulling up your "stats" on your almighty Lehigh team and the crap schedule they have had.....nice entertainment.

LOL....5th ranked scoring offense.....LOL....against very poor competition......

Your best post is the score you predicted: Lehigh 48-28.

Whatever.

UNI scored 19 on us....Lehigh would not come close to that......oops!

[MTfan4life]

LOL...you are a joke!!

What is the color of the sky in your world?

Lehigh's schedule is a joke compared to the Bison's. The teams in your league play each other to have stats that are questionable at best.

Like I said before, Lehigh would be a middle of the pack MV team...period. Keep pulling up your "stats" on your almighty Lehigh team and the crap schedule they have had.....nice entertainment.

LOL....5th ranked scoring offense.....LOL....against very poor competition......

Your best post is the score you predicted: Lehigh 48-28.

Whatever.

UNI scored 19 on us....Lehigh would not come close to that......oops!

Lehigh beat UNI by 67 points last season. The game was actually over before it began. Lum threw for 56 touchdowns and was elected President right after the game.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Lehigh's strenuous schedule so far:


Monmouth
New Hampshire
Princeton
Liberty
Yale
Bucknell
Fordham
Colgate


Boy, shame on me.....what a monumental task that schedule has been.....wow!!!!

Yep, any one of those "powerhouses" could run the table in the MV or CAA or Scon....what am I thinking.......xchinscratchxxchinscratchx

Oh, by the way, I hope Lafayette kicks your team's a**. Lafayette was in the FD for our 1st game this year.

Keep your posting....it is good entertainment!!xlolxxlolx

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Lehigh beat UNI by 67 points last season. The game was actually over before it began. Lum threw for 56 touchdowns and was elected President right after the game.


I give Lehigh credit for going in there and winning. UNI overlooked them and it bit them in the butt.

I hope Lehigh is in our bracket.

[344Johnson]

Anyone want to see how many ppg NDSU's schedule thus far would have if they had not played the Bison? Sorry Bro, but Fan, Lehigh hasn't exactly played good teams. NDSU has played a few good ones. You Sir, are either a troll. Or an idiot. Perhaps both.

[TheBisonator]

I don't have a problem at all with someone saying Lehigh has a chance to beat NDSU if they played in the playoffs. Tell me about your strengths. Tell me about how you think your team can exploit our weaknesses. Fine. That's a discussion that I think would be very good to have.

What really turns me off by this guy is claiming that Lehigh would score 45-50 points on NDSU's D, a D that I'm prety damn sure this guy has not watched a single second of this season.

I think only one team has scored around that much points on the Bison in at least the past 8 years: Sam Houston State in 2009, and every Bison fan will tell you that was the most sorry defensive display a Bison team had shown in at least the past 30 years.

Talk about Lehigh's chancec of winning, fine. Talking about scoring 7+TD's on the Bison D in the Fargodome is pissing into the wind.

[344Johnson]

Sorry Fan, but when you go on here and insist that NDSU hasn't played any decent offenses it sounds like a load of crap. Have you ever watched Missouri Valley football? It is a tough conference to look good offensively in.

Honestly, you saying that Lehigh would drop 48 or 56 on NDSU is a lot like saying Houston would score a ton on a team like Michigan State(currently #2 in defense)

Whether you are intelligent or not....it makes you sound a bit like a nut.

[TheBisonator]

The only times NDSU has allowed 45+ on an opposing team this decade:

2009 At Sam Houston State: 48 points (That team went 3-8 that year)

2002 At Nebraska-Omaha: 49 points (That team WHEN WE WERE STILL IN DII went 2-8 that year)

Our two worst teams of the past 45 years each allowed 45+ points on one occasion each.

Maybe if NDSU was currently 1-7, you wouldn't sound so stupid, TheFan.

[TheBisonator]

Maybe you missed the part where it was proven with facts that NDSU's schedule was mostly teams that ranked in the bottom 1/4 of scoring offenses in the FCS:

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?98498-Stratify-the-FCS-Conferences&p=1712674&viewfull=1#post1712674

that is the ONLY reason why NDSU is considered to have a good defense and that is why the top Offensive Team in the FCS, Lehigh, is going to destroy NDSU's defense, particularly throught the air...

This is the only card you have in your hand and you're playing it OVER AND OVER AND OVER again. Seriously, your last 10 posts have been nothing but THAT ONE THING. Bison/other fans have ben throwing SO MANY different stats at you to prove your ONE STAT is spurious.

[TheBisonator]

344Johnson, maybe you have also missed the FACTS showing the caliber of opponents of NDSU:

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?98498-Stratify-the-FCS-Conferences&p=1712674&viewfull=1#post1712674

The record of NDSU's opponents that they've beaten is 25-43. Show me Lehigh's record.

[TheBisonator]

TheBisonator, Lehigh will score over 45 points on NDSU if they ever met

And TheFan, you are drinking too much rubbing alcohol if you think Lehigh would score over 45 points on NDSU's D.

[TheBisonator]

TheBisonator, Lehigh will score over 45 points on NDSU if they ever met

have you seen how weak the offensive scoring production of NDSU's opponents has been?

mostly in the bottom 1/4 of the FCS

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?98498-Stratify-the-FCS-Conferences&p=1712674&viewfull=1#post1712674

Again, this is the same damn card. We've been throwing the Ace of Spades at you while you continue to play that crappy 3 of clubs.

[344Johnson]

344Johnson, maybe you have also missed the FACTS showing the caliber of opponents of NDSU:

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?98498-Stratify-the-FCS-Conferences&p=1712674&viewfull=1#post1712674

Wouldn't mind seeing the Sagarin ratings of teams Lehigh has played.

[TheBisonator]

oh wait, now we have seen some solid proof as to why Lehigh will not score over 45 points on NDSU:

because the record of NDSU oppoents is 25-43

Is that it?

are you f*** kidding?

geesh, come on!

the fact is that NDSU's opponents are in the bottom 1/4 of the FCS in terms of scoring offense and that is why NDSU defense is considered very good - because of the weak offenses that it has faced..

nope, no factual evidence to disprove that Lehigh is going to score over 45 points on NDSU...

I don't want your damn 3 of Clubs anymore...

[bisonguy]

oh wait, now we have seen some solid proof as to why Lehigh will not score over 45 points on NDSU:

because the record of NDSU oppoents is 25-43

Is that it?

are you f*** kidding?

geesh, come on!

the fact is that NDSU's opponents are in the bottom 1/4 of the FCS in terms of scoring offense and that is why NDSU defense is considered very good - because of the weak offenses that it has faced..

nope, no factual evidence to disprove that Lehigh is going to score over 45 points on NDSU...

I guess if Lehigh scores 45 on NDSU that means NDSU would put up at least 56 on the scoreboard. Sagarin has NDSU as an 11 point favorite.

[Professor Chaos]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lb9n4oa_Pus

Fan, with all that hating on you by everyone I just wanted to say that I really enjoyed your guest appearance on Family Guy.

[MTfan4life]

nope, no factual evidence to disprove that Lehigh is going to score over 45 points on NDSU...

Lehigh put 34 points on Princeton, who has the nation's 98th ranked scoring defense. Princeton was within 5 points with less than 7 minutes to play in the 4th quarter. Princeton has one win on the season.

[TheBisonator]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lb9n4oa_Pus

Fan, with all that hating on you by everyone I just wanted to say that I really enjoyed your guest appearance on Family Guy.

I was WAITING for this, THANK YOU Prof. Chaos.

[semobison]

oh wait, now we have seen some solid proof as to why Lehigh will not score over 45 points on NDSU:

because the record of NDSU oppoents is 25-43

Is that it?

are you f*** kidding?

geesh, come on!

the fact is that NDSU's opponents are in the bottom 1/4 of the FCS in terms of scoring offense and that is why NDSU defense is considered very good - because of the weak offenses that it has faced..

nope, no factual evidence to disprove that Lehigh is going to score over 45 points on NDSU...

Ok, this has been entertaining, but try this:
Lehigh has beaten Fordham by 22.
Layfayette has beaten Fordham by 21.
Lehigh is 1 point better than Layfayette!
NDSU beats Layfayette 42-6!
That settles it! NDSU beats Lehigh by 35!

[TheBisonator]

nope, no factual evidence to disprove that Lehigh is going to score over 45 points on NDSU...

And you have LOTS of factual evidence to prove that they will.

I'm done in this thread.

[344Johnson]

nope, no factual evidence to disprove that Lehigh is going to score over 45 points on NDSU...

I ask you to factually disprove that a flying stealth spaghetti monster...that is invisible by the way, exists. Yeah, NDSU's opponents thus far are 25-43, Minnesota is like 2-6 or 2-7, they'd do better in FCS. How about we assume they'd be 4-3. Now its 27-41. Now lets assume all those teams took bye weeks instead of playing NDSU. Now it is 27-34.

Take a look at Sagarin Ratings. It has Illinois St. ahead of you. A MVFC team with 3 losses. Does that make you feel good? Your only defense is that some of the teams SU has played, aren't great at scoring. That is true, but NDSU has stopped everyone from scoring much on them. Some of them being pretty dang good teams. UNI, Illinois St. Heck, we are scoring pretty well as much as you are this season.

In fact, we are both in the mid 30's per game I believe. So...essentially, one of the teams at least has a good defense...and the other one...is Lehigh.

13 minutes since I posted this. TheFan got overwhelmed by FCS logic.

[veinup]

Lehigh put 34 points on Princeton, who has the nation's 98th ranked scoring defense. Princeton was within 5 points with less than 7 minutes to play in the 4th quarter. Princeton has one win on the season.

oh, snap.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Wouldn't mind seeing the Sagarin ratings of teams Lehigh has played.


NDSU is ranked......#50.

Oh ya, our "weak" defense cannot possibly been the cause of this ranking....xchinscratchx


This is for this clown Fan:

UNI: #63
ISU: #103
ILL St: #111
Lehigh: #112

Now this is Lehigh's schedule and their Saragin:

Monmouth: #210
UNH: #115
Princeton: #226
Liberty: #133
Yale: #185
Bucknell: #171
Fordham: #228
Colgate: #197


Wow...your QB has played against some real "stiff" competition buddy.

Oh ya, our defense has played against the so called bottom 1/4 of FCS offenses...LOL. Well genius, in the MV, we beat each other up every week. Any of those teams that you have played, the Bison would beat 50-3. Go troll over on the Lafayette board and tell them how great Lehigh is.

[gotts]

Thread summary:

1. The Fan says, "NDSU's defense only seems good because they play 'weak' competition."
2. ???
3. Profit

[TheBisonator]

Thread summary:

1. The Fan says, "NDSU's defense only seems good because they play 'weak' competition."
2. ???
3. Profit

Underpants are somehow involved too...

[veinup]

NDSU is ranked......#50.

Oh ya, our "weak" defense cannot possibly been the cause of this ranking....xchinscratchx


This is for this clown Fan:

UNI: #63
ISU: #103
ILL St: #111
Lehigh: #112

Now this is Lehigh's schedule and their Saragin:

Monmouth: #210
UNH: #115
Princeton: #226
Liberty: #133
Yale: #185
Bucknell: #171
Fordham: #228
Colgate: #197


Wow...your QB has played against some real "stiff" competition buddy.

Oh ya, our defense has played against the so called bottom 1/4 of FCS offenses...LOL. Well genius, in the MV, we beat each other up every week. Any of those teams that you have played, the Bison would beat 50-3. Go troll over on the Lafayette board and tell them how great Lehigh is.

Lehigh lookin tough!

[344Johnson]

I find it really funny that the bad-mediocre games on our schedule look a lot like Lehigh's normal schedule.

[DJKyR0]

I don't know about you guys, I think this is pretty entertaining.

http://isert.net/gif/popcorn.gif

For those who are just joining the program, here's a quick re-cap:

1. NDSU plays soft competition and has a bad (?) defense justified by stats (?)
2. Those same stats do not apply to Lehigh. In fact, no stats do outside of their offensive production
3. NDSU fans fondle livestock
4. Asterisks

[344Johnson]

I don't know about you guys, I think this is pretty entertaining.

http://isert.net/gif/popcorn.gif

That bowl is going to run out sooner or later KyR0, might want to run make some more, this is going to be a war of attrition with TheFan

[MTfan4life]

Bison Fan, you disgusting deceptive MF Moronic Clown

You posted Lehigh's full schedule of teams that they have played but only posted the higher ranked teams that NDSU has played and one that it has not played yet, including St. Francis, a team with a ranking (#238) that is worse than any team that Lehigh has played so far!

you stupid F***

any reason why you failed to post the complete schedule of NDSU games played?

let me help you a little here, with the bold being the teams that you "accidentally" left off, and the bold blue of a team that you have yet to play:

Lafayette:191
St. Francis: 238
Minnesota: 114
Missouri State:180
Southern Illinois: 162


UNI: #63
ISU: #103
ILL St: #111
Lehigh: #112


and when you make a comment like this:

"Any of those teams that you have played, the Bison would beat 50-3"


are you saying that you would beat 11th ranked UNH and 15th ranked Liberty by 50-3?

you dumb F***, go find some sheep or cows to played with, or whatever you do you there

Whatever happened to asking people to stop the personal attacks?

[gotts]

Honestly,

Can't The Fan provide any insight as to how the Lehigh offensive line blocking scheme would do in pass protection against the Bison front 7?

Do you know what type of defensive scheme the Bison run? Would your quarterback find most of his yardage from long or short passing plays? Have you heard of Marcus Williams?

I'm not trying to be a wise guy here, I'm giving an opportunity for you to expand on your thoughts, rather than beat the same dead, statistical, cherry-picked horse!

[MTfan4life]

MT, take some time and review the personal attacks that I was responding to, which were initiated by Bison Fan

then

come back and apologize for being such a moron...

this is getting adorable

[TheBisonator]

Bison Fan, you disgusting deceptive MF Moronic Clown

You posted Lehigh's full schedule of teams that they have played but only posted the higher ranked teams that NDSU has played and one that it has not played yet, including St. Francis, a team with a ranking (#238) that is worse than any team that Lehigh has played so far!

you stupid F***

any reason why you failed to post the complete schedule of NDSU games played?

let me help you a little here, with the bold being the teams that you "accidentally" left off, and the bold blue of a team that you have yet to play:

Lafayette:191
St. Francis: 238
Minnesota: 114
Missouri State:180
Southern Illinois: 162


UNI: #63
ISU: #103
ILL St: #111
Lehigh: #112


and when you make a comment like this:

"Any of those teams that you have played, the Bison would beat 50-3"


are you saying that you would beat 11th ranked UNH and 15th ranked Liberty by 50-3?

you dumb F***, go find some sheep or cows to played with, or whatever you do you there

Yeah, this is starting to get juicy

Can't play that three of clubs anymore, flip the whole damn table over!!

[gotts]

I'm sorry, but what Offensive Line are you talking about?

the one led by the Offensive Line coach that instructed and taught the only player from last year in the whole FCS, including all NDSU players, who is starting in the NFL as a rookie this year?

That Offensive Line?

Did I stutter, boy?

Again, I would ask you to answer any of the previously mentioned questions, then you can ask whatever your little heart desires!

[DJKyR0]

I'm sorry, but what Offensive Line are you talking about?

the one led by the Offensive Line coach that instructed and taught the only player from last year in the whole FCS, including all NDSU players, who is starting in the NFL as a rookie this year?

That Offensive Line?

Note to self - start judging positions by how many players the position coach has put into the NFL. Quarterbacks therefore suddenly bad.

...noted.

[extremerouge]

I hope Lehigh travels to NDSU in the second round...that would be a fun game to watch

[TheBisonator]

It really would be fun to watch, but a little painful for the NDSU fans, don't you think?

what with over 400 passing yards and 5 passing TD's by Lehigh against that sieve of a NDSU passing defense!

This argument just went back to where we frickin started....

[DJKyR0]

This argument just went back to where we frickin started....

It hasn't moved from there the entire time.

[LakesBison]

Hi TheFan. My name is Lakesbison.. We haven't met yet.... tell me, do you like long walks along the beach? I have a beach in my backyard.

You bring Chris Lum, Ill bring MWILL. I bet I know who would win.


PS_ I like your style on the board, love the swearing and attacks... seriously.. props. Im Pos Reppin you!!

[FargoBison]

Bison Fan, you disgusting deceptive MF Moronic Clown

You posted Lehigh's full schedule of teams that they have played but only posted the higher ranked teams that NDSU has played and one that it has not played yet, including St. Francis, a team with a ranking (#238) that is worse than any team that Lehigh has played so far!

you stupid F***

any reason why you failed to post the complete schedule of NDSU games played?

let me help you a little here, with the bold being the teams that you "accidentally" left off, and the bold blue of a team that you have yet to play:

Lafayette:191
St. Francis: 238
Minnesota: 114
Missouri State:180
Southern Illinois: 162


UNI: #63
ISU: #103
ILL St: #111
Lehigh: #112


and when you make a comment like this:

"Any of those teams that you have played, the Bison would beat 50-3"


are you saying that you would beat 11th ranked UNH and 15th ranked Liberty by 50-3?

you dumb F***, go find some sheep or cows to played with, or whatever you do you there

NDSU has a Massey Rating of 1st in the FCS, NDSU's SOS per Massey is rated as the 14th most difficult in the FCS.

Lehigh has a Massey Rating of 14th in the FCS, Lehigh's SOS per Massey is rated as the 73rd most difficult in the FCS.


Please stop comparing stats until Lehigh has played a comparable schedule to NDSU.

[BucBisonAtLarge]

This is all been fun, but please , some new material, please, without further daring the moderators to step in. Just a few observations.
--the crowd of Lehigh guys on this board has seemingly lost their prodigious ability to interject during the latter stages of TheFan's filibuster in this thread, suggesting to me that even those wearing the dung-colored uniform jammies are not so willing to announce the 2nd coming in Bethlehem.
--Someone brandishing a Princeton crest as his avatar would be building up his message count in this this way is against the natural order. Patriot League schools are supposed to fawn upon their Ivy Brethren with not a bit of notice by any of the scions of the Ancient Eight. Shh, it sounds like you watch football after Yale-Harvard.
--Beware the stock explanation of 'overlooking' an opponent who has had your hiney in any game, such as the lame-o tale proffered in this thread as what happened when UNI hosted Lehigh last year in the first round of the playoffs. That explains nothing and disrepects that team that has trashed your imagined glory. Suck it up and give props
--Respect. Here we have a Lehigh team which has been exciting to watch and a brilliant undefeated Bison squad. These are net assets to the subdivision. Wow, what a great year so far. WE all can remember bad years and it is a thrill to ride a season likr this out.
--I for one feel no need to defend the Patriot League against the talents of the MVFC. I like the intersectional debate, the appeal to the stats, and in the end knowing that it will all get played out in the FCS tournament with champion earning the bragging rights. I will be pulling for Lehigh, Georgetown, Holy Cross or whoever wins the PL autobid. Bucknell still has a shot as well.
--Hey NDSU-- I married a YSU alum and warily note TheFan's pathological perseveration on a possible chink in your impressive defense's armor-- the pass. Beware the Guins... they are not Jim Tressel's old squad. They have a big offense and throw the pass quite well. We wouldnt want you to miss that 2nd round game at Goodman-- seats more than the Dome I believe.

[veinup]

have the moderators EVER stepped in on this forum? cuz there's one kid on here (we all know his name) who does nothing but pick fights and talk ****, yet he's still allowed to post. if he isn't banned, who could possibly be?

[Twentysix]

Goodman is over 3000 seats shy of the fargodome.

Not to mention people show up to games at the fargodome unlike goodman.... When their are less than 10,000 open seats give me a call lol.

We shall do a little comparison since our bucknell friend brought it up.

(ESPN attendance figures)

Lehigh:
vs UNH 7519
vs Liberty 6185
vs Yale 6072
Total: 19776
/gm: 6592

NDSU:
vs Lafayette 17023
vs SFU 18341
vs ISUr 18904
vs MSU 18029
vs UNI 18886
Total: 91183
/gm: 18236

Im thinking even the lafayette-lehigh(go pards) rivally doesnt draw as well as the NDSU lafayette 1 night stand.

[SLOSTYLE]

my god this endless debate is annoying

[Twentysix]

Dont click on it then. kthnxbai.

[SLOSTYLE]

I was under the impression that this would have something to do with conference stratification

[Twentysix]

It did for like 3 pages. The gentleman at the door will refund your money in coupons to the foodcourt at your local airport.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Whatever happened to asking people to stop the personal attacks?


MT....don't worry about it, hasn't phased me one bit.

You could ask any FCS fan on this site which team has had a tougher schedule between NDSU and Lehigh and they would to a person probably say NDSU.

Lehigh is a good team....saw highlights of them last year against UNI. But, this is THIS year. They play in a conference that is traditionally weak so when a so called "fan" comes on here and spouts off about how bad NDSU is and their team would "shred" our #1 ranked defense then it is time for rebuttle.

He is so worried about all our schedule then here it is:

Lafayette: 191
SFU: 238
Minnesota: 114
Ill State: 111
MSU: 180
UNI: 63
SDSU: 144
SIU: 162
In State: 103

Well, that is a lot tougher competition than Lehigh has played.....period.

NDSU is ranked #50.....ahead of 71 1A teams.

And MT: This guy obviously has not see our team play when he says his QB will throw deep on us against our corners. Marcus Williams CB is the best in FCS and will be a NFL draft pick.

Let him spout off how great his team is....it is great entertainment!

[Professor Chaos]

--Hey NDSU-- I married a YSU alum and warily note TheFan's pathological perseveration on a possible chink in your impressive defense's armor-- the pass. Beware the Guins... they are not Jim Tressel's old squad. They have a big offense and throw the pass quite well. We wouldnt want you to miss that 2nd round game at Goodman-- seats more than the Dome I believe.
In some desperate attempt to bring this thread back to meaningful conversation:

BucBison, I agree that the NDSU pass defense has not been statistically impressive this season but there are a few factors that contribute to that. Teams that are behind will pass more but more importantly is the defensive scheme the Bison play. They play the Tampa 2 defense which is classic "bend-but-don't-break" defense. That defensive scheme will allow teams to move the ball rythimically down the field with short passes but if they make one mistake it puts the offense behind schedule and will give this type of defense an advantage. Similarly, a good Tampa 2 defense tightens up considerably in the red zone and that's why the Bison are #2 in scoring defense while being worse in total defense. Teams that can convert red zone opportunities to TDs instead of FGs will have the ability to beat the Bison but no team has done that consistently thus far.

Another thing you'll notice is that if you start getting one dimensional against the Bison your QB may be able to throw for some yards but he'll get hit... hard and often.

[RichH2]

This is all been fun, but please , some new material, please, without further daring the moderators to step in. Just a few observations.
--the crowd of Lehigh guys on this board has seemingly lost their prodigious ability to interject during the latter stages of TheFan's filibuster in this thread, suggesting to me that even those wearing the dung-colored uniform jammies are not so willing to announce the 2nd coming in Bethlehem.
--Someone brandishing a Princeton crest as his avatar would be building up his message count in this this way is against the natural order. Patriot League schools are supposed to fawn upon their Ivy Brethren with not a bit of notice by any of the scions of the Ancient Eight. Shh, it sounds like you watch football after Yale-Harvard.
--Beware the stock explanation of 'overlooking' an opponent who has had your hiney in any game, such as the lame-o tale proffered in this thread as what happened when UNI hosted Lehigh last year in the first round of the playoffs. That explains nothing and disrepects that team that has trashed your imagined glory. Suck it up and give props
--Respect. Here we have a Lehigh team which has been exciting to watch and a brilliant undefeated Bison squad. These are net assets to the subdivision. Wow, what a great year so far. WE all can remember bad years and it is a thrill to ride a season likr this out.
--I for one feel no need to defend the Patriot League against the talents of the MVFC. I like the intersectional debate, the appeal to the stats, and in the end knowing that it will all get played out in the FCS tournament with champion earning the bragging rights. I will be pulling for Lehigh, Georgetown, Holy Cross or whoever wins the PL autobid. Bucknell still has a shot as well.
--Hey NDSU-- I married a YSU alum and warily note TheFan's pathological perseveration on a possible chink in your impressive defense's armor-- the pass. Beware the Guins... they are not Jim Tressel's old squad. They have a big offense and throw the pass quite well. We wouldnt want you to miss that 2nd round game at Goodman-- seats more than the Dome I believe.

As one of the lehigh crowd, while Fan makes some good points, he does seem able to stretch any valid point to ridiculous extremes . Look at this thread 30 pages and almost exclusively a p*ssing contest with the Fan. Most of us , Fan included I would assume, are proud of what Lehigh has accomplished given its limitations and we are confident that we can do well in the playoffs, if we are fortunate enuf to make them again this year. Look ,if we meet NDSU, I think we will give them a tough game. Score 50 points?? While we are not as weak as many seem to think, to suppose that we could score at will on NDSU is a hard position to take and one even harder to support. Hence 20 pages of increasingly vituperative posts .
I have no answers for you as to Fan other than dont keep baiting him and ignore his trolling

[MSUBobcat]

As one of the lehigh crowd, while Fan makes some good points, he does seem able to stretch any valid point to ridiculous extremes . Look at this thread 30 pages and almost exclusively a p*ssing contest with the Fan. Most of us , Fan included I would assume, are proud of what Lehigh has accomplished given its limitations and we are confident that we can do well in the playoffs, if we are fortunate enuf to make them again this year. Look ,if we meet NDSU, I think we will give them a tough game. Score 50 points?? While we are not as weak as many seem to think, to suppose that we could score at will on NDSU is a hard position to take and one even harder to support. Hence 20 pages of increasingly vituperative posts .
I have no answers for you as to Fan other than dont keep baiting him and ignore his trolling

This. I've taken the bait myself and you can't argue reasonably with TheFan. Stats only work one way with him and that's if they favor Lehigh, i.e. Bison defense stats are good because they played weak competition but Lehigh's stats are good because Lehigh is just good. It has been entertaining, but if you think you will ever get him to concede any point, no matter how minute or how much evidence you provide, you are wasting your time.

[DJKyR0]

In some desperate attempt to bring this thread back to meaningful conversation:

BucBison, I agree that the NDSU pass defense has not been statistically impressive this season but there are a few factors that contribute to that. Teams that are behind will pass more but more importantly is the defensive scheme the Bison play. They play the Tampa 2 defense which is classic "bend-but-don't-break" defense. That defensive scheme will allow teams to move the ball rythimically down the field with short passes but if they make one mistake it puts the offense behind schedule and will give this type of defense an advantage. Similarly, a good Tampa 2 defense tightens up considerably in the red zone and that's why the Bison are #2 in scoring defense while being worse in total defense. Teams that can convert red zone opportunities to TDs instead of FGs will have the ability to beat the Bison but no team has done that consistently thus far.

Another thing you'll notice is that if you start getting one dimensional against the Bison your QB may be able to throw for some yards but he'll get hit... hard and often.

That YSU game is going to be another really intriguing matchup that I'm positively giddy to observe our defense getting a crack at. Kurt Hess was able to burn us once or twice and while I want to submit that our secondary is better than last year's even sans-Gatlin, with how inconsistent Dudzik has looked a few times at LCB I'm not quite ready to go that far. Hess was able to throw one of just two passes where Marcus Williams just flat-out got beat (the other was at Montana State, unless I recall incorrectly) and that's something we won't see happen again. They've got a stable of RB's equivalent to Shakir Bell by committee so two weeks in a row we'll get a chance to watch our defense go up against an O that's very potent in both phases of the game. Defensive line is going to need to show up to finish off the regular season for sure.

[TheBisonator]

Hence 20 pages of increasingly vituperative posts .


Patriot League education paying off...

Can I use that word in future instances?? :D

[RichH2]

Patriot League education paying off...

Can I use that word in future instances?? :D

xsmileyclapxxsmileyclapx

Yup, feel free. Some of us in the PL enjoy multisyllabic balderdash for fun and profitxrolleyesx.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

have the moderators EVER stepped in on this forum? cuz there's one kid on here (we all know his name) who does nothing but pick fights and talk ****, yet he's still allowed to post. if he isn't banned, who could possibly be?

Let me know who you are talking about and pm me if we need to have a discussion.

[LakesBison]

I just wanted to be introduced to THE FAN, he missed my intro on page 29 *SNIFF SNIFF*