NDSU/UND Rivalry and UND Div I Study Results Forthcoming

[TexasTerror]

Several things of note. First off, UND and North Dakota St have no plans at playing each other on the gridiron and secondly, North Dakota has stated that they're going to be rolling out their findings on a move to Div I, which could perhaps lead to several interesting conference expansion discussions and a return of the UND/NDSU rivalry...

UND, NDSU unlikely to renew football rivalry anytime soon
Associated Press

FARGO, N.D. - The University of North Dakota football team is playing an NCAA Division I-AA opponent next season, but it's not former archrival North Dakota State.

The Fighting Sioux, who play in Division II, have scheduled a game with I-AA Northern Iowa.

NDSU athletic director Gene Taylor said his counterpart at UND, Tom Buning, approached the Bison about playing a game on Oct. 21. NDSU declined and instead scheduled a game with I-A Minnesota.

UND and NDSU have not played since the Bison moved from Division II to Division I-AA after the 2003 season. Taylor said the schools are unlikely to play in the next few years.

"We've got so many things going on," he said. "Right now we just don't have the time, between trying to find a conference and filling out our schedules. That is something that is going to take a lot of discussion."

Buning said UND will keep asking. "And when the time is right we would love to renew the rivalry with NDSU," he said.

The Oct. 21 date remains open on UND's schedule.

UND recently completed a study of Division I reclassification and is expected to release its findings next week.

http://www.grandforks.com/mld/grandforks/news/14502765.htm

[GOKATS]

Not to reinvent the wheel here, but there are so many in the Big Sky Conf. that would welcome NDSU and SDSU in a heartbeat (I won't repeat who the naysayers are). UND has fallen behind and it will take a time to get out of the shadows.

NDSU is obviously trying to rise in the ranks of I-AA (and doing a very repectful job of doing so) while their former rival is wallowing. I have no problem with NDSU maintaining the tough schedule they have chosen in lieu of playing a former in state rival.

[TexasTerror]

Not to reinvent the wheel here, but there are so many in the Big Sky Conf. that would welcome NDSU and SDSU in a heartbeat (I won't repeat who the naysayers are). UND has fallen behind and it will take a time to get out of the shadows.

Well, atleast with this study, we can see where UND believes they stand and what legitimate chance they have at moving up. Hopefully this study is done without a bias and we can get some facts, as well as legitimate thoughts and insight from the UND administration in response to what the study shows...



NDSU is obviously trying to rise in the ranks of I-AA (and doing a very repectful job of doing so) while their former rival is wallowing. I have no problem with NDSU maintaining the tough schedule they have chosen in lieu of playing a former in state rival.

And it includes SLC foes! I got no problem with that. SDSU is doing a pretty good job too...

[GOKATS]

Well, atleast with this study, we can see where UND believes they stand and what legitimate chance they have at moving up. Hopefully this study is done without a bias and we can get some facts, as well as legitimate thoughts and insight from the UND administration in response to what the study shows...




And it includes SLC foes! I got no problem with that. SDSU is doing a pretty good job too...

I meant no slight whatsoever to SDSU, you're right on. I was just addressing the original topic.

[chrisattsu]

While I am happy the NDSU is trying to make themselves a better team and are foregoing a rivalry game for a IA payout, I still can't help but feel sad for the UND.

To me this smells like one of those, "Playing you does nothing for our program and if we lose, we look like jackasses because we are D1 and you are D2."

[Gil Dobie]

While I am happy the NDSU is trying to make themselves a better team and are foregoing a rivalry game for a IA payout, I still can't help but feel sad for the UND.

To me this smells like one of those, "Playing you does nothing for our program and if we lose, we look like jackasses because we are D1 and you are D2."

Ah!, you have it the other way around. When NDSU went I-AA, they offered UND a 4 year home and home, this would be year 3. UND said no, they wanted to play on an equal playing field, NDSU had the advantage in scholarships etc, etc. UND was the third option for Oct 21, UNI first, Minnesota second.

They will play again, probably after UND moves to I-AA.

[FargoBison]

While I am happy the NDSU is trying to make themselves a better team and are foregoing a rivalry game for a IA payout, I still can't help but feel sad for the UND.

To me this smells like one of those, "Playing you does nothing for our program and if we lose, we look like jackasses because we are D1 and you are D2."

When NDSU went DI the school offered to extend the rivalry by giving UND a contract to continue to play for 4 more years and it even gave UND two home games (NDSU said we will continue the rivalry as long as UND wants to). UND turned the offer down rudely just to spite NDSU(because we needed games badly) and now a lot of bad blood exists between the two for this and a few other reasons. Don't feel sad for UND they made their own bed and now they have to lay in it. The two schools will play again but I doubt it will happen any time during the next few years.

[RabidRabbit]

Ah!, you have it the other way around. When NDSU went I-AA, they offered UND a 4 year home and home, this would be year 3. UND said no, they wanted to play on an equal playing field, NDSU had the advantage in scholarships etc, etc. UND was the third option for Oct 21, UNI first, Minnesota second.

They will play again, probably after UND moves to I-AA.

Gil/Bison fans - Is there ANY likely scenerio that UND moves to D-1, and ISN'T in the SAME CONFERENCE as NDSU or SDSU, especially for football? I just don't see them moving up without tying into their I-29 rivals. Too remote without us. Great West or Big Sky, I just see us as their year in year out rivals. Staying D-2, they have the NCC. Moving up? not without Rabbits and Bison to play against.

[Gil Dobie]

Gil/Bison fans - Is there ANY likely scenerio that UND moves to D-1, and ISN'T in the SAME CONFERENCE as NDSU or SDSU, especially for football? I just don't see them moving up without tying into their I-29 rivals. Too remote without us. Great West or Big Sky, I just see us as their year in year out rivals. Staying D-2, they have the NCC. Moving up? not without Rabbits and Bison to play against.

One interesting scenario is UND to the Big Sky, NDSU/SDSU to the Mid-Con/Gateway. It's all speculation of course. NDSU to a conference is my may concern. :)

[Ivytalk]

There was an older gent in my choral group who went to NDSU and proudly wore a Bison sweatshirt to many rehearsals. Boy, he hated UND! He said that UND people tended to look down on NDSU students as "aggies" and second-class citizens. I wouldn't be surprised if the bad blood appears when the football rivalry is renewed.

[Hansel]

Isn't Notre Dame already division I?

[RabidRabbit]

There was an older gent in my choral group who went to NDSU and proudly wore a Bison sweatshirt to many rehearsals. Boy, he hated UND! He said that UND people tended to look down on NDSU students as "aggies" and second-class citizens. I wouldn't be surprised if the bad blood appears when the football rivalry is renewed.

xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx
There's BAD BLOOD NOW, and no (football) games!!!!! Plenty of Games, but not on the fields! xlolx xlolx But my oh my are the Sioux unable to make a decision.

The suspense and intensity of discussions going on right now is amazing. University of North Dakota have a lot of reasons to go D-1. And maybe even more to stay where they are at (D-2, NCC).

[WYOBISONMAN]

There was an older gent in my choral group who went to NDSU and proudly wore a Bison sweatshirt to many rehearsals. Boy, he hated UND! He said that UND people tended to look down on NDSU students as "aggies" and second-class citizens. I wouldn't be surprised if the bad blood appears when the football rivalry is renewed.

The bad blood will never go away.........My distaste and contempt for UND runs very deep (as with most Bison fans). It goes far beyond athletics and extends to the fact that UND is constantly trying to underhandedly screw NDSU in a wide variety of aspects. They even when as far as running an extended degree office in Fargo!

When NDSU decided to move to DI some UND backers in the state legislature tried to get a bill through that would make the only legal DI sport hockey (at state institutions).

The ethics of the UND administration have been at an all time low recently. That being said, it does seem that the new UND AD (Bunning) may be a reasonable guy, but how much can he do when the President is a snake.......

[RabidRabbit]

The bad blood will never go away.........My distaste and contempt for UND runs very deep (as with most Bison fans). It goes far beyond athletics and extends to the fact that UND is constantly trying to underhandedly screw NDSU in a wide variety of aspects. They even when as far as running an extended degree office in Fargo!

When NDSU decided to move to DI some UND backers in the state legislature tried to get a bill through that would make the only legal DI sport hockey (at state institutions).

The ethics of the UND administration have been at an all time low recently. That being said, it does seem that the new UND AD (Bunning) may be a reasonable guy, but how much can he do when the President is a snake.......

xlolx Forked tongue double speak? :nod:

YOU :bow: :bow: be the judge.

http://www.in-forum.com/av/index.cfm?id=7890&type=tvscript

[OrneryAggie]

To me this smells like one of those, "Playing you does nothing for our program and if we lose, we look like jackasses because we are D1 and you are D2."

Suc St continued to play their DII rival, UCD, every year after they moved up to DI in 1991. But their reputation is so bad they really didn't have anything to lose either way.

The best way to settle the bad blood between the bison and the sue is for UND to nut up and put it on the field. Every year they wait NDSU will only get better, almost garaunteeing the bison bragging rights for several years in all sports once und finally amits they were wrong and the state of north dakota belongs in DI.

[SactoHornetFan]

Suc St continued to play their DII rival, UCD, every year after they moved up to DI in 1991. But their reputation is so bad they really didn't have anything to lose either way.

Only because of our previous admin and sometimes bonehead coaching. I think if Coach Mattos were still coaching our team, we would not have had the record against you guys since 91.

[star2city]

When NDSU decided to move to DI some UND backers in the state legislature tried to get a bill through that would make the only legal DI sport hockey (at state institutions).

ND House Bill 1356 in 2003, which would have banned funding of new DI athletic programs, seems to be continually cited by NDSU fans as inspired by UND. Even though one of the sponsors was a turncoat NDSU graduate (Froehlich of Selfridge) and UND administration spoke publicly against it, in NDSU lore, UND was the culprit. The vote was 12 yes and 80 against. The twelve votes ‘against’ NDSU included two NDSU and two UND grads. Hardly worthy of a conspiracy, yet in NDSU lore, UND is, was, and will forever be the culprit whenever adversity strikes them. Even when confronted with truth on numerous message boards, too many NDSU fans instinctively choose to believe the great masses of UND graduates are conspiring against them. After all, the University of North Dakota is all–powerful in the state and in the nation. ;)

[bisonguy]

ND House Bill 1356 in 2003, which would have banned funding of new DI athletic programs, seems to be continually cited by NDSU fans as inspired by UND. Even though one of the sponsors was a turncoat NDSU graduate (Froehlich of Selfridge) and UND administration spoke publicly against it, in NDSU lore, UND was the culprit. The vote was 12 yes and 80 against. The twelve votes ‘against’ NDSU included two NDSU and two UND grads. Hardly worthy of a conspiracy, yet in NDSU lore, UND is, was, and will forever be the culprit whenever adversity strikes them. Even when confronted with truth on numerous message boards, too many NDSU fans instinctively choose to believe the great masses of UND graduates are conspiring against them. After all, the University of North Dakota is all–powerful in the state and in the nation. ;)

Cite an example of the UND administration speaking against it publicly.

[WYOBISONMAN]

ND House Bill 1356 in 2003, which would have banned funding of new DI athletic programs, seems to be continually cited by NDSU fans as inspired by UND. Even though one of the sponsors was a turncoat NDSU graduate (Froehlich of Selfridge) and UND administration spoke publicly against it, in NDSU lore, UND was the culprit. The vote was 12 yes and 80 against. The twelve votes ‘against’ NDSU included two NDSU and two UND grads. Hardly worthy of a conspiracy, yet in NDSU lore, UND is, was, and will forever be the culprit whenever adversity strikes them. Even when confronted with truth on numerous message boards, too many NDSU fans instinctively choose to believe the great masses of UND graduates are conspiring against them. After all, the University of North Dakota is all–powerful in the state and in the nation. ;)

Ahhh......a poster from the UND board appears.........Welcome to the big league.......:smiley_wi

[Gil Dobie]

Letter by Kupchella to UND football lettermen on Division I issue (http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=77050&section=Sports)

I want you to know that I hate the idea that NDSU even appears to be making a move ahead of us in any way whatsoever, perhaps as much as you do - even for a little while. I, too, miss playing NDSU - especially when we win. - Kupchella

[Green Cookie Monster]

Suc St continued to play their DII rival, UCD, every year after they moved up to DI in 1991. But their reputation is so bad they really didn't have anything to lose either way.

We continued to play UCDoofis in all sports except basketball, we won 5 straight years during that time in football. I think by playing Doofis it was good for the region. Same for Nodak. I think it is a dis-service to the state that the Nodak's won't play each other regardless of 25 schollies. The game is good for Nodak. I mean NDSU is playing Concordia? Miss. Valley? I think UND would be a better challenge and would provide a better gate.

[Gil Dobie]

The game is good for Nodak. I mean NDSU is playing Concordia? Miss. Valley? I think UND would be a better challenge and would provide a better gate.

Those game were already scheduled. The Choice was UNI H/H, Minnesota $300,000, UND $50,000, in that order.

[star2city]

Cite an example of the UND administration speaking against it publicly.

So typical of an NDSU fan, demand evidence to disprove some aspect of a loony conspiracy theory when all prior evidence presented suggests the opposite is true. How about you cite an example of the UND administration speaking in favor of the bill?

By the way, I did see quotes with my own eyes in the Bismarck Tribune and the Grand Forks Herald of UND adminstrators denouncing that bill. Don't recall those facts being brought up by the Fargo Forum, but that shouldn't be a surprise.

According to Brandon Misener of D2football.com, "the Forum is a mouthpiece by NDSU. A contract allegedly exists between NDSU and the Forum, one that has given the Forum a bad name in the journalism world."

http://www.d2football.com/board/index.php?showtopic=216&view=findpost&p=3038

[Gil Dobie]

There has been lapses in the rivalry in the past.

NDAC’s team was first coached by the botanist, H. L. Bolley, who later became world famous as a plant pathologist. UND players were known as the Flickertails, and Fargo’s team was called the Farmers. The ongoing contest between the two made for good action until 1906, when UND got trounced so badly that they refused to play Fargo for the next four years.

PPT (http://www.prairiepublic.org/programs/datebook/bydate/03/1103/110303.jsp)

[bisonguy]

So typical of an NDSU fan, demand evidence to disprove some aspect of a loony conspiracy theory when all prior evidence presented suggests the opposite is true. How about you cite an example of the UND administration speaking in favor of the bill?

By the way, I did see quotes with my own eyes in the Bismarck Tribune and the Grand Forks Herald of UND adminstrators denouncing that bill. Don't recall those facts being brought up by the Fargo Forum, but that shouldn't be a surprise.

According to Brandon Misener of D2football.com, "the Forum is a mouthpiece by NDSU. A contract allegedly exists between NDSU and the Forum, one that has given the Forum a bad name in the journalism world."

http://www.d2football.com/board/index.php?showtopic=216&view=findpost&p=3038

So typical of a UND fan, to resort to ad hominem when they lack facts. You're the one that made the claim, therefore, the burden of proof is on your shoulders.

Please read what is typed, and quit making assumptions and jumping to conclusions. Where exactly did I refute your entire statement? I simply asked for proof for one of your arguments that you failed to provide.

Why was the cheap shot at The Forum necessary, other than being a vehicle to spew your anti-NDSU and anti-Fargo bile? Brandon has openly admitted that he hates NDSU, more than likely due to jealousy. It's fairly common knowledge that you share this hate with him. Brandon has also admitted to basing some of his "knowledge" off rumors and heresay.

[WYOBISONMAN]

So typical of an NDSU fan, demand evidence to disprove some aspect of a loony conspiracy theory when all prior evidence presented suggests the opposite is true. How about you cite an example of the UND administration speaking in favor of the bill?

By the way, I did see quotes with my own eyes in the Bismarck Tribune and the Grand Forks Herald of UND adminstrators denouncing that bill. Don't recall those facts being brought up by the Fargo Forum, but that shouldn't be a surprise.

According to Brandon Misener of D2football.com, "the Forum is a mouthpiece by NDSU. A contract allegedly exists between NDSU and the Forum, one that has given the Forum a bad name in the journalism world."

http://www.d2football.com/board/index.php?showtopic=216&view=findpost&p=3038


Give me a break......you cite this garbage from a bulletin board as if it were fact?? Geez......You Sioux fans are loosing it.xidiotx

[star2city]

Give me a break......you cite this garbage from a bulletin board as if it were fact?? Geez......You Sioux fans are loosing it.xidiotx

Brandon Misener is the equivalent to Ralph on this board. He has credibility.

[star2city]

Wyobisonman makes this claim on this board:

When NDSU decided to move to DI some UND backers in the state legislature tried to get a bill through that would make the only legal DI sport hockey (at state institutions).


I refuted that with evidence. This was also done on Siouxsports.com three years ago, with Wyobisonman, Gil Dobie, and Bisonguy as active participants on that board.

No evidence of any sort was ever presented by anyone that UND administrators were behind this. Media in Bismarck and Grand Forks reported that UND was actively working against that bill. But yet Bison fans continue to cite that issue when it is nothing but a lie spun into a myth.

So Bison fans, one last time, find me one shred of evidence to support Wyobisonman’s claim, such as citing an example of the UND administration speaking in favor of the bill, and I will apologize. The onus is on you as you are making the scurrilous claim against UND.

[star2city]

Wyobisonman makes this claim on this board:


When NDSU decided to move to DI some UND backers in the state legislature tried to get a bill through that would make the only legal DI sport hockey (at state institutions).

I refuted that with evidence. This was also done on Siouxsports.com three years ago, with Wyobisonman, Gil Dobie, and Bisonguy as active participants on that board.

No evidence of any sort was ever presented by anyone that UND administrators were behind this. Media in Bismarck and Grand Forks reported that UND was actively working against that bill. But yet Bison fans continue to cite that issue when it is nothing but a lie spun into a myth.

So Bison fans, one last time, find me one shred of evidence to support Wyobisonman’s claim, such as citing an example of the UND administration speaking in favor of the bill,
and I will apologize. The onus is on you as you are making the scurrilous claim against UND.

[*****]

Brandon Misener is the equivalent to Ralph on this board...:eyebrow:

[*****]

Wyobisonman makes this claim on this board:
I refuted that with evidence. This was also done on Siouxsports.com three years ago, with Wyobisonman, Gil Dobie, and Bisonguy as active participants on that board.
No evidence of any sort was ever presented by anyone that UND administrators were behind this. Media in Bismarck and Grand Forks reported that UND was actively working against that bill. But yet Bison fans continue to cite that issue when it is nothing but a lie spun into a myth.
So Bison fans, one last time, find me one shred of evidence to support Wyobisonman’s claim, such as citing an example of the UND administration speaking in favor of the bill, and I will apologize. The onus is on you as you are making the scurrilous claim against UND.s2c, we like reasoned discussion around here so thanks for asking for proof. We all know that UND did not like NDSU going D-I. Proof was posted here. Where is the proof that "media in Bismarck and Grand Forks reported that UND was actively working against that bill"? Links?

[bisonguy]

Brandon Misener is the equivalent to Ralph on this board. He has credibility.


Brandon Misener is NO Ralph Wallace. :nono:

I doubt Ralph would ever use admitted rumors and heresay in a radio interview as the basis for his "facts".

[WYOBISONMAN]

Brandon Misener is NO Ralph Wallace. :nono:

I doubt Ralph would ever use admitted rumors and heresay in a radio interview as the basis for his "facts".



............What he said........

[X-Factor]

hehehe, this is quite the debate. I can't imagine what attention a NDSU/UND game would draw.

[RabidRabbit]

We've watched some incredibly unknown schools leap to D-1 this year. It's mascosistic (sp?) to watch one of the 5 top D-2 trying to make up their mind if they desire to be the top end of a division that is getting weaker and weaker as the years go by, or if they're FINALLY going to rejoin their main rivals (that made the NCC a strong D-2 conference) at D-1 and D-1AA football.

I hope they join. I hope that NDSU/SDSU and the mid-con all move forward together, and welcome and help UND survive the transition years. Personally, without the Bison and Bunnies as their lead, and main rivals year in/out, they're a LONG WAY from any body else in D-1.

Until UND moves, Star2city, siouxpreme, and my active friends from und, please ask questions, but to extent possible, keep the smack to bison and siouxsports boards, please.

[star2city]

s2c, we like reasoned discussion around here so thanks for asking for proof. We all know that UND did not like NDSU going D-I. Proof was posted here. Where is the proof that "media in Bismarck and Grand Forks reported that UND was actively working against that bill"? Links?
Ralph:

If that is the case, where is it? Proof of the original statement, that UND was behind a legislative effort to prevent NDSU going DI, has never been shown and never will be.

[swaghook]

It is sad that this debate and smack talk has spilled out onto yet another BB. : smh :

[blukeys]

After all, the University of North Dakota is all–powerful in the state and in the nation.


I don't know much about conditions in North Dakota but I really don't think you would find one Non - North Dakota alum agree with the assertion that U of North Dakota is "all-powerful" in the nation. I was at a Delaware - Figthtin' Sioux game where the Hens laid a 59-17 b*tch smack on the slow pokes from the frozen tundra. The game was actually not as close as the score may have indicated. :p :p

[D2Football]

Brandon Misener is NO Ralph Wallace. :nono:

I doubt Ralph would ever use admitted rumors and heresay in a radio interview as the basis for his "facts".


I heard I was taking some shots on here so I decided to respond.

Thank you for the kind comments, star.

Just as Ralph has many contacts in 1AA, I have many contacts in D2. I'm sure Ralph will attest to the fact that many, many people call him with information.

The information given to me was done so by a high ranking official. I trust that person but I was unable to use his/her name. That is why I labelled them as I did. What I heard is more than a rumor. I wish I could name names, but I can't if I want to use the source again.

Maybe the talks have broken down? I don't know. But at some point, the Big Sky Commissioner was in Grand Forks talking to UND.

Bisonguy, when I did the interview I said that it was something that was told to me. I did not say that I had sat in on meetings or anything similar. You are unfairly saying that I presented it as fact when I did not.

[*****]

s2c, we like reasoned discussion around here so thanks for asking for proof. We all know that UND did not like NDSU going D-I. Proof was posted here. Where is the proof that "media in Bismarck and Grand Forks reported that UND was actively working against that bill"? Links?
Ralph:
If that is the case, where is it? Proof of the original statement, that UND was behind a legislative effort to prevent NDSU going DI, has never been shown and never will be.I didn't say that. Here is the proof I referred to:
... I want you to know that I hate the idea that NDSU even appears to be making a move ahead of us in any way whatsoever, perhaps as much as you do - even for a little while. ...
CE Kupchella, Univ. of North Dakota President

BTW, do you have those links yet?

[*****]

...Just as Ralph has many contacts in 1AA, I have many contacts in D2. I'm sure Ralph will attest to the fact that many, many people call him with information...Naw, I just make it all up in print and imitate the voices on I-AA WAVES... I thought everyone knew that already. :cool:

[swaghook]

The information given to me was done so by a high ranking official. I trust that person but I was unable to use his/her name. That is why I labelled them as I did. What I heard is more than a rumor. I wish I could name names, but I can't if I want to use the source again.

:rolleyes:

[ncbears]

When UNC was accepted into the Big Sky, it didn't just happen over night. It was process that took several months. Big Sky officials went to our campus, toward the athletic facilities, toward every where on campus and then had several votes in preperation for the official vote. Has any Big Sky officials been to the campuses of UND, NDSU, SDSu? I know they have a meeting coming up this month but I don't know if they will make an official vote when they haven't even been to the campuses.

[Gil Dobie]

When UNC was accepted into the Big Sky, it didn't just happen over night. It was process that took several months. Big Sky officials went to our campus, toward the athletic facilities, toward every where on campus and then had several votes in preperation for the official vote. Has any Big Sky officials been to the campuses of UND, NDSU, SDSu? I know they have a meeting coming up this month but I don't know if they will make an official vote when they haven't even been to the campuses.

The visits to UNC came from this meeting in 2004:
The Big Sky Presidents Council meets Dec. 13 to decide which schools, if any, to formally visit. NDSU, South Dakota State, Northern Colorado and Southern Utah each have returned to the Big Sky a required questionnaire.
Fargo Forum Link (http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=76914&section=News)

And then there was an official visit to UNC.
I-AA.org (http://www.i-aa.org/article.asp?articleid=70804)
After the Big Sky met last December, the presidents and officials decided to pursue just one expansion school in Northern Colorado. Northern Colorado was officially announced as the ninth Big Sky member about a month ago and will begin play in that league starting with the 2006 football season.

If the standards are the same, visits would be announced first, and then membership voted upon.

[ncbears]

If the standards are the same, visits would be announced first, and then membership voted upon.


Are they going to even address the issue of expansion when the BSC meets later this month?

[bisonguy]

I heard I was taking some shots on here so I decided to respond.

Thank you for the kind comments, star.

Just as Ralph has many contacts in 1AA, I have many contacts in D2. I'm sure Ralph will attest to the fact that many, many people call him with information.

The information given to me was done so by a high ranking official. I trust that person but I was unable to use his/her name. That is why I labelled them as I did. What I heard is more than a rumor. I wish I could name names, but I can't if I want to use the source again.

Maybe the talks have broken down? I don't know. But at some point, the Big Sky Commissioner was in Grand Forks talking to UND.

Bisonguy, when I did the interview I said that it was something that was told to me. I did not say that I had sat in on meetings or anything similar. You are unfairly saying that I presented it as fact when I did not.

The "reasoning" for NDSU's move to DI in the interview was completely incorrect, and nothing less than another snipe at NDSU begot from a UND message board:

Fact: NDSU and UND applied for membership in the Big Sky in 1978.
Fact: NDSU attempted to move the entire NCC conference to DI (including UND), with DI presentations to the conference beginning in 2000.
Fact: NDSU waited an extra year before starting the DI reclassification process to allow any extra NCC teams to move along with them (including UND)

Do any of these facts support your statement that NDSU was moving up to differentiate itself from UND? Quite on the contrary, it shows that NDSU did everything within it's control to retain UND as an athletic peer.

[WYOBISONMAN]

NDSU moved up because D2 had become a shell of its former self. Huge scholie cuts from where D2 had been in the 80's and a huge numbers of schools that couldn't even fully fund the reduced numbers of scholies. That is why NDSU moved up.....we are a flagship institution in North Dakota and should not be playing in the minor league of D2. It was not at all to be different than UND......hell, we wanted them to go with us. Then after they didn't want to move and NDSU made the move, Kupchella started all the back stabbing. Yes, old Kuppy is a helluva prize. I think he has been a damn positive force in the growth of NDSU! The longer UND keeps that guy the better for NDSU!

[D2Football]

There was nothing in my interview that was an insult to NDSU. I'm sorry if you took it that way. If you disagreed with my assessment, then we just have a difference of opinion. When you are critical of D2, does that mean you're taking a snipe at it or just giving your honest opinion?

Again, you said I was saying a "rumor" was the truth. I didn't. Now you've changed it to the fact that I was insulting NDSU. Since I said NDSU would do well in 1AA, what will be your next criticism of me?

[WYOBISONMAN]

Brandon....I never heard the interview. But, it is hard for me to believe that NDSU would have a contract that required the Fargo Forum to write a minimum number of stories on NDSU and the Bison. I don't doubt that you have a "source", but the information to me seems far fetched.

My only beef with D2 (and not D2football.com) was the way NDSU was treated when we left.....especially by UND and some of the UND fans. Geez...it is no wonder that NDSU wouldn't give them a game this year......

As for D2football.com, it is a great site that I enjoyed a lot when we were D2, and I still stop by and read threads, although I seldom post. The only beef I ever had with D2football.com was that Jeff Harlin was a bit of a homer......

[D2Football]

As for D2football.com, it is a great site that I enjoyed a lot when we were D2, and I still stop by and read threads, although I seldom post. The only beef I ever had with D2football.com was that Jeff Harlin was a bit of a homer......

A bit? Ha Ha Ha He's gotten a lot better. I still give him crap about the Jansen/Woosley is better than Lamar Gordon thing. Ha Ha Ha

I didn't mention the contract in the interview, btw. I just mentioned what I had heard about the meetings with the BSC. By the way, I am going to ND in about three weeks. I'll make my source produce the contract. If he can't I'll retract the statement regarding the contract, which really isn't a criticism of NDSU anyway.

[bisonguy]

There was nothing in my interview that was an insult to NDSU. I'm sorry if you took it that way. If you disagreed with my assessment, then we just have a difference of opinion. When you are critical of D2, does that mean you're taking a snipe at it or just giving your honest opinion?

IMO-Stating as fact that NDSU moved to DI because of jealousy of UND's DI hockey program is an insult to NDSU, and a statement that is easily proven false by NDSU's actions.



Again, you said I was saying a "rumor" was the truth. I didn't.
Your statements on conference and division membership were admittedly based on rumors and speculation. That's something I would expect from an internet message board or a gossip rag, not a member of the media. Why even report it if it's not based in fact?


Now you've changed it to the fact that I was insulting NDSU.
Nah, just another issue I decided to take with the it.


Since I said NDSU would do well in 1AA, what will be your next criticism of me?

None. Heck, I'll even give you a compliment- you do a very nice job with D2football.com, and probably do more to promote DII football than anyone else (and for a lot less $$$).

[Gil Dobie]

Are they going to even address the issue of expansion when the BSC meets later this month?

My post should have included: If they are interested in expansion?

[Rabbit3467]

So when are the sioux going to change their nickname. Are they going to announce that they are going DI just so that they have their waiting period to hold onto the name. Im still curious about how that is going to go down, because I know the alums will go nuts. The other problem is the englestad and all the labels. Im really curious to see what the sue annouce about DI.


want :bang: to :bang: say :bang: it :bang: trying :bang: to :bang: resist :bang:

sioux suck

[WYOBISONMAN]

A bit? Ha Ha Ha He's gotten a lot better. I still give him crap about the Jansen/Woosley is better than Lamar Gordon thing. Ha Ha Ha

I didn't mention the contract in the interview, btw. I just mentioned what I had heard about the meetings with the BSC. By the way, I am going to ND in about three weeks. I'll make my source produce the contract. If he can't I'll retract the statement regarding the contract, which really isn't a criticism of NDSU anyway.

If you actually see a contract let us know......it would interesting if it actually exists.

[WYOBISONMAN]

So when are the sioux going to change their nickname. Are they going to announce that they are going DI just so that they have their waiting period to hold onto the name. Im still curious about how that is going to go down, because I know the alums will go nuts. The other problem is the englestad and all the labels. Im really curious to see what the sue annouce about DI.


want :bang: to :bang: say :bang: it :bang: trying :bang: to :bang: resist :bang:

sioux suck

Yes.....the bad thing about the suzies changing thier nick name would be no more chants of ....................

"SIOUX SUCK"

There Rabbit I yelled it for you..........as only a Bison fan can......xprost2x

[*****]

WYOBISONMAN, this is the discussion board so please don't smack here.

[nd4life]

By the way, I am going to ND in about three weeks. I'll make my source produce the contract. If he can't I'll retract the statement regarding the contract, which really isn't a criticism of NDSU anyway.

It's time to put this rumor to rest. Speaking as someone who had knowledge of The Forum's newsroom operations until a year ago, I can say with 100 percent certainty that no such contract exists. For that matter, there is no newsroom in the country that would enter into such a contract. That's simply not how newspapers work. There may indeed be other contracts between The Forum and NDSU concerning advertising and event sponsorships and what are called "tradeouts" in the industry. But the notion that a newspaper would agree to a deal with any business or institution mandating a specified level of news coverage is laughable.

[AmsterBison]

There was an older gent in my choral group who went to NDSU and proudly wore a Bison sweatshirt to many rehearsals. Boy, he hated UND! He said that UND people tended to look down on NDSU students as "aggies" and second-class citizens. I wouldn't be surprised if the bad blood appears when the football rivalry is renewed.

Hehe, Ivytalk, as you probably already have realized, the bad blood has never gone away :)

[JBB]

Im sticking with Brandon on this one. He has never claimed a contract with the Forum exists:

QUOTE(Brandon Misener @ May 2 2006, 01:05 AM)

John,

In no way was it a criticism of NDSU. If the contract is real, NDSU is really smart to have been a part of it. Really smart.

http://www.d2football.com/board/index.php?showtopic=216&st=40

I didnt hear the interview either, but have heard a lot about it. Some of his comments were opinions, but he is a Division II celebrity. People listen when he speaks. Thanks Bisonguy for some counter balance.

[AmsterBison]

Im sticking with Brandon on this one. He has never claimed a contract with the Forum exists:

Meh. There is little difference in my book between repeating a falsehood and originating it. In fact, if the rumor spreader doesn't hold the person who tricked them responsible when the lie is revealed, there is no difference.

By the by, along with the practice of using "agricultural" as a pejorative, the "crime" for which The Gossipping Girls of Sue U most need a good, hard spanking from their grandmas is being malicious fishwives. Saying, "I never said it was true, I was just repeating something that something told me?" Man, nobody should get away with that kind of stuff... yet, it never ceases to amaze me how many people think that they're being clever when they do it. RRRRR.

[WYOBISONMAN]

WYOBISONMAN, this is the discussion board so please don't smack here.

But, Ralph.....it can't be smack since UND doesn't even field a DI-AA team....:smiley_wi

[*****]

Yeah this thread belongs in Other Sports doesn't it?

[Gil Dobie]

Yeah this thread belongs in Other Sports doesn't it?

UND may announce I-AA intentions this month?

[WYOBISONMAN]

I would wager some free drinks to my fellow Bison fans that Kuppy does not have the fortitude to go ahead with a jump to DI. I also would guess that action will bring calls for his dismissal from many UND faithful.

[*****]

Letter by Kupchella to UND football lettermen on Division I issue (http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=77050&section=Sports)...Here's the part I didn't get:

"Football may be a special case, but there are those who question whether moving to Division Iaa is really a move up at all. Both Northern Colorado and NDSU were ranked in the top 25 during their first years in D Iaa. What do you guys think this really says about the level of competition at this so-called next level? For each of the last few years, the National Playoff in division IAA had about half the ESPN audience of the division II Playoff. What does that really say about status and "exposure?"

Well, sir, that is not true. Even with being on regular ESPN the D-II championship did NOT get better ratings than the I-AA champ game on the secondary ESPN 2. In fact, the SEMIFINALS of I-AA also outdrew the D-II champ game. He might want to note that many rounds of the I-AA playoffs are televised (at least in part) which has not been the case of the D-II tourney.

[blukeys]

Here's the part I didn't get:

"Football may be a special case, but there are those who question whether moving to Division Iaa is really a move up at all. Both Northern Colorado and NDSU were ranked in the top 25 during their first years in D Iaa. What do you guys think this really says about the level of competition at this so-called next level? For each of the last few years, the National Playoff in division IAA had about half the ESPN audience of the division II Playoff. What does that really say about status and "exposure?"

Well, sir, that is not true. Even with being on regular ESPN the D-II championship did NOT get better ratings than the I-AA champ game on the secondary ESPN 2. In fact, the SEMIFINALS of I-AA also outdrew the D-II champ game. He might want to note that many rounds of the I-AA playoffs are televised (at least in part) which has not been the case of the D-II tourney.

Well if this is his attidude I guess I should not even consider NDSU or Northern Colorado in my personal top 25. :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod:


Just kidding guys. I am keeping an open mind until the end of the month and will appreciate any input from the "left coast" to conteract my east coast bias.:nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod:

[D2Football]

Well, sir, that is not true. Even with being on regular ESPN the D-II championship did NOT get better ratings than the I-AA champ game on the secondary ESPN 2. In fact, the SEMIFINALS of I-AA also outdrew the D-II champ game. He might want to note that many rounds of the I-AA playoffs are televised (at least in part) which has not been the case of the D-II tourney.

Ralph,

I thought you would want to know that two rounds plus the championship game were televised by ESPN. It's certainly not what 1-AA gets but it was an improvement over what D2 had been getting.

[WYOBISONMAN]

Here's the part I didn't get:

"Football may be a special case, but there are those who question whether moving to Division Iaa is really a move up at all. Both Northern Colorado and NDSU were ranked in the top 25 during their first years in D Iaa. What do you guys think this really says about the level of competition at this so-called next level? For each of the last few years, the National Playoff in division IAA had about half the ESPN audience of the division II Playoff. What does that really say about status and "exposure?"

Well, sir, that is not true. Even with being on regular ESPN the D-II championship did NOT get better ratings than the I-AA champ game on the secondary ESPN 2. In fact, the SEMIFINALS of I-AA also outdrew the D-II champ game. He might want to note that many rounds of the I-AA playoffs are televised (at least in part) which has not been the case of the D-II tourney.


Great point Ralph.....thanks for digging up the information on that...:nod:

[*****]

Ralph,
I thought you would want to know that two rounds plus the championship game were televised by ESPN. It's certainly not what 1-AA gets but it was an improvement over what D2 had been getting.D2F,
Yes, I was referring to the fact that D-II has not been televised as much but on the bigger channel. If you have the numbers he was talking we'd like to see them. I-AA isn't always outdrawn ratings-wise by D-II is the point I guess. Though it certainly has been at times in the past.

[AmsterBison]

All "bad blood" aside, the University of North Dakota would make a fine addition to DI and DI-AA if they can swing it, but I kind of hope they don't announce a move up for at least a couple more years because I think that would be best for my school (North Dakota State). First, it'd be nice to see SDSU v NDSU continue to blossom as a rivalry without being overshadowed. Second, I like NDSU's and SDSU's chances of securing a conference a bit better without UND in the picture - of course, if it helps to have UND move up, I'm all for it. Then, once the bad blood as settled and if UND decides to move up, UND v NDSU will be a matchup that DI-AA can be proud to have rather than one that is just uncomfortably dysfunctional (like a family screaming match that takes place in grocery store parking lot).

[Gil Dobie]

Here is a poll in the Grand Forks Herald (UND's hometown).
Grand Forks Herald Poll on DI (http://forums.grandforks.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=kr-gfsports&msg=112.1&vote=2)

The conference question is a major item for UND. This was a GFH reporters take on UND's DI move as the football season was winding down.
Wayne Nelson Link (http://www.grandforks.com/mld/grandforks/sports/qa_forum.html)
As it has been reported, UND is studying the possibility of moving up to Division I athletics. But the key will be UND's ability to find a conference. A move to Division I without a conference affiliation makes little sense. If there is no conference for UND to join, the chances are slim the school will move up. Right now, there aren't many conferences willing to accept a school such as UND because of its location. If other NCC schools, such as South Dakota and Nebraska-Omaha, begin looking at Division I athletics, I think UND's chances of moving up would improve. Those three schools, along with NDSU and South Dakota State, would serve as a strong nucleus for a solid, competitive Division I conference that wouldn't be too taxing on the schools' budget. A school could have great facilities, a strong alumni base and the money to meet additional travel and scholarship expenses, but if it does not have a conference affiliation, all of those advantages are moot.

[NDSU_grad]

Then, once the bad blood as settled and if UND decides to move up, UND v NDSU will be a matchup that DI-AA can be proud to have rather than one that is just uncomfortably dysfunctional (like a family screaming match that takes place in grocery store parking lot).
So you're thinking sometime around the year 2350?:(

[RabidRabbit]

So you're thinking sometime around the year 2350?:(

xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx
Think it'll be that soon?
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

It's a tough decision for the Sioux, and they've not helped themselves with their closest potential D-1 partners. I look forward to a definitive answer from them prior to summer's end (heck, maybe even May)

[Rabbit3467]

Yes.....the bad thing about the suzies changing thier nick name would be no more chants of ....................

"SIOUX SUCK"

There Rabbit I yelled it for you..........as only a Bison fan can......xprost2x


This is the first time I have said this on this board, but I went to school at NDSU then on to grad school at UND. So you have to trust me that the i may have said that once or twice before, and Im torn between two schools. (my black bison hat is still my favorite).

Sorry if this sounds like smack ralph. :nono: :nono:

[WestRiverBison]

University of Mary in Bismarck will be D2 this Fall and word is that Minot State will be making the move soon. This alone has to make Sue alum's blood boil. If they dont make the jump soon, like or not these will be their peer institutions.

Go Marauders!

[Go Bison]

Looks like the survey is in. They prefer D2. I think they asked all the hockey season ticketholders in this survey.

http://www.grandforks.com/mld/grandforks/14537212.htm

[WYOBISONMAN]

xcoffeex I have to say I am very shocked by the results of that survey. It would almost seem that some of the questions or the way they were asked were rather leading. This one is really a puzzler....xcoffeex

[JBB]

your point Amster, I agree.

[RabidRabbit]

:eyebrow: More on the Sioux possible move - Thanks 89rabbit for this!! :eyebrow:

http://www.grandforks.com/mld/grandforks/sports/14550002.htm

COLLEGE ATHLETICS: Division I can wait

Even if the Sioux move to D-I, they would play in NCC at least two more years

By Kevin Fee
Herald Staff Writer

Before UND could make a move to NCAA Division I, it would have to give the Division II North Central Conference an 18-month notice that it was departing for the big time.

The earliest UND could play a full-fledged Division I schedule would be in the 2008-09 school year, unless it wants to pay penalties to the NCC.

That is if the school decided it could come up with the finances and eventually find a suitable conference.

UND's NCAA Classification Task Force released a draft report that showed the pros and cons of the school moving all of its athletic programs to Division I. UND is Division I only in men's and women's hockey now. . . . (read more)

Go State! :hurray:

Rabid - Post note. This is a good solution for the Sioux if they choose to move up. Gives them an additional year to find a conference home. By then, hopefully NDSU/SDSU are firmly in a conference for all-sports. And in actuality, if that is the mid-con/GWFC combo, that could be a workable place for the Sioux in the 2010-2013 timeframe, when they're first eligible for play-offs (assuming transition year would be 2008)

[WYOBISONMAN]

I think this is the end on UND's current look at DI. UND will be in the D2 ranks for a near future. It is too bad as they would have done fine in DI.

[blukeys]

I’m not that surprised. Faculty and staff seemed most opposed to the move. Faculty in today’s colleges see all sports as a distraction at best and a detriment for more pay for the employees of the institution. Quite frankly I question the idea of considering “faculty” as stakeholders. Season ticket holders and students are the ones who I consider the best indicators and their answers were more positive.

The survey was conducted by an in house organization no doubt using a “faculty” advisor.
Consider this:

“Data from 400 season ticketholders, 400 students, 545 employees and 336 faculty members was used for the survey.”

For this type of sampling to be useful North Dakota would have to be the only University in the U.S. that has close to a 1:1 student to faculty ratio. What sense does it make for employees and faculty combined to outnumber students and season ticketholders in the sample. ?

When a “survey” skews it’s sample to over represent groups that would be naturally hostile to an idea then one can reasonably assume that the fix was in.

[WYOBISONMAN]

I would argue that the faculty are indeed stakeholder, they are myopic as hell, but stakeholders none the less.

I think the Athletic Department is really at the forefront of marketing for any university..........:twocents:

[JBB]

They have a lot of problems. Right now they cant make the move without the conference notification and a financial plan. They need a conference. It adds up to several more years of study, planning and getting used to the idea. Why would they want to vacate the lucrative North Dakota DII sports market anyway? The dominate it. If they move to DI they will raise operating costs supstantially and lose market share to Fargo which is 3 times as large.

[bison95]

xcoffeex xcoffeex xcoffeex xidiotx xidiotx

As much as I enjoyed the rivalry, I really don't care about sue any more. It is about progress, moving forward, challenging yourself, and growing the institution. I am proud of my Alma Motter for being the progressive university that it is, and I feel sorry for suzie sitting in her closet sucking her thumb. Suzie needs to realize that until she comes out of that closet and pulls her thumb out, no body will really care. (except for hockeyxlolx xlolx )

[OrneryAggie]

I wouldn't take that survey to be the end of the discussion. At UCD the academic senate (professors and faculty) voted 2-1 against the move to DI. The chancellor chose to ignore that vote, which was only advisory and not binding, and let the students vote. Students voted 55%in favor of fee hikes for the move, similar to the student numbers seen at UND. Of course the chancellor here approved the move because a conference (with 3 other UC's and the 2 academically highest CSU's, poly and long beach) had already offered admission.

[blukeys]

I would argue that the faculty are indeed stakeholder, they are myopic as hell, but stakeholders none the less.

I think the Athletic Department is really at the forefront of marketing for any university..........:twocents:

The faculty as a rule do not support athletics either with money or attendance. If things are different out west then here in the east let me know.


If they wanted some REAL STAKEHOLDERS, why not poll the alumni that they have been begging contributions from for the last 10 or so years. This "survey" is totally bogus by any measure. Too bad for UND and all the other western schools who would benefit from having another I-AA team in that region.

[RabidRabbit]

:bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:

TransAm - <In best James Earl Jones voice> You have a gift!!!!

:hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray:

PLEASE SHARE THIS WITH AGS under the UND move up thread, this is MasterCard priceless! :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod:

http://www.bisonville.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1147987052/0#5

Sorry, TransAM I'm here and this is WAY to wonderful to only be on the Bison Board.