Review Standards for AQ's?

[bluehenbillk]

With the playoffs soon moving to 24 teams, should the NCAA look at reviewing the AQ process?

Right now basically all a league has to do is have a minimum # of teams & apply. Once the PFL gets their autobid then every league that has asked for one has received one.

I'd suggest that if a league doesn't play to a "competitive standard" than their AQ should be taken back until their level of play reaches a certain level.

How many years in a row does a league need to go "one and done" before the standard of play in that league is questioned?

Thoughts....

[darell1976]

Has a non-schollie team ever won a playoff game?

[superman7515]

Colgate was in the National Championship game... Several Patriot League teams have won a game.

[TexasTerror]

While you can say that a Southland fan would say this, I still do not believe playoff results are the only result that is indicative of the quality of play.

I would not mind if FCS followed some sort of hybrid of the D2 model and create 'regions' and 'regional rankings'. Automatic bids guaranteed to league winners with at-larges filled out by regional rankings. You'd have balance in the regions as far as schools within a region, though I guess for the SLC - that'd mean pairing with the Big Sky. Maybe?

[MTfan4life]

Every other college tournament gives every conference a chance of some sort. Why can't the FCS? What is wrong with that? Who cares if there are a couple of games that aren't to some high standard? Each conference gets a chance. Part of the reason the first weekend of the college basketball tournament is so popular is that it gives everyone a chance to compete. If you have a good year in your conference and win your conference, you have an opportunity to compete for the title. This isn't a professional sport where there are few enough teams that you can guarantee the deserving teams qualified for the playoffs. Football shouldn't need to stand out from everything else.

[darell1976]

Whats the difference between getting a AQ in football and a AQ in basketball? In basketball Long Island has maybe a .5% at taking down Duke or North Carolina, but its fun to watch because in that rare instance it happens. Same with football how big of an upset would it be to see Drake or Robert Morris take down NDSU or App St or UNI. Thats why you play the game you never know what is going to happen. I say give it to the conferences who apply for an AQ. You never know what happens. If your team was really that good...it would have won the conference outright.

[ccd494]

At 24 teams who is going to be the "last out?" a 6-5 CAA or Big Sky team? I don't have a lot of sympathy if that team loses out to a 10-1 San Diego or whatever.

[youwouldno]

Others have pointed this out, but non-scholarship FCS is really not the same as a weaker D-I basketball conference or something. It's more like D-III football. Putting that aside though, there just isn't any benefit to giving the PFL an AQ. Whereas a conference with scholarships or equivalents might then be motivated to improve, there is no reason to think that will happen with non-scholarship programs. The whole point is that they won't spend real money on football. They will just be an automatic win for some lucky team every year.

[FargoBison]

While you can say that a Southland fan would say this, I still do not believe playoff results are the only result that is indicative of the quality of play.

I would not mind if FCS followed some sort of hybrid of the D2 model and create 'regions' and 'regional rankings'. Automatic bids guaranteed to league winners with at-larges filled out by regional rankings. You'd have balance in the regions as far as schools within a region, though I guess for the SLC - that'd mean pairing with the Big Sky. Maybe?

Terrible idea, as a fan of school that was part of the DII system it was horrible. Regions were unbalanced, the current system is much better in crowning a true champ. I like playing schools from all over...the DII system gets so tired and boring with in many cases the same teams playing against each other year after year.

[darell1976]

Terrible idea, as a fan of school that was part of the DII system it was horrible. Regions were unbalanced, the current system is much better in crowning a true champ. I like playing schools from all over...the DII system gets so tired and boring with in many cases the same teams playing against each other year after year.

It sucked that we were in the toughest region.

[FargoBison]

Others have pointed this out, but non-scholarship FCS is really not the same as a weaker D-I basketball conference or something. It's more like D-III football. Putting that aside though, there just isn't any benefit to giving the PFL an AQ. Whereas a conference with scholarships or equivalents might then be motivated to improve, there is no reason to think that will happen with non-scholarship programs. The whole point is that they won't spend real money on football. They will just be an automatic win for some lucky team every year.

Definitely agree, unlike the Big South and NEC the Pioneer has done nothing to prove they should have a bid...merely existing in the FCS shouldn't be enough. They are still operating on a DIII model and until that changes they have no place being in the FCS playoffs. We don't need to dilute the field anymore than it already is.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Others have pointed this out, but non-scholarship FCS is really not the same as a weaker D-I basketball conference or something. It's more like D-III football.

Nonsense. I invite you to come to watch a Lafayette/Lehigh game and then write that we play "D-III football." Go watch the Harvard/Yale game and then call that "D-III football." You try dragging Penn and Lehigh and Princeton and Colgate up and down the field, year after year, and see if you think it's "D-III football." I don't think so.


We don't need to dilute the field anymore than it already is.

Who's "we?" Division II teams that only recently qualified for the D-I playoffs? Excluding the teams that invented college football and created the NCAA to begin with? Try getting a perspective.

The B.S. really is flying around this place, isn't it?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Definitely agree, unlike the Big South and NEC the Pioneer has done nothing to prove they should have a bid...merely existing in the FCS shouldn't be enough. They are still operating on a DIII model and until that changes they have no place being in the FCS playoffs. We don't need to dilute the field anymore than it already is.

It's not, and never has been, about "proving they should have a bid". It's about access to the playoffs, and why should certain conferences be excluded from the playoffs if they want to be a part of it.

If you'll recall, folks were arguing the exact same logic in regards to denying the NEC and Big South the autobid a couple of years ago: "just because you're FCS doesn't mean you should get an autobid", "they should qualify as an at-large before they should even be in consideration", etc.

It's funny to see people get exercised about denying conferences bids. It's like they're scared or something.

[youwouldno]

Nonsense. I invite you to come to watch a Lafayette/Lehigh game and then write that we play "D-III football." Go watch the Harvard/Yale game and then call that "D-III football." You try dragging Penn and Lehigh and Princeton and Colgate up and down the field, year after year, and see if you think it's "D-III football." I don't think so.

I obviously was including 'equivalencies.' It is just annoying to write that every time.


It's not, and never has been, about "proving they should have a bid". It's about access to the playoffs, and why should certain conferences be excluded from the playoffs if they want to be a part of it.


If you want to be part of FCS, then offer scholarships or equivalencies. Simple as that. That's what D-I athletics is supposed to be about, heck even D-II. What if D-I schools without any football program added it at a club-level? Should they get an autobid? Well I guess the PFL essentially is club level, but you know what I mean.

Opposition to the weaker scholarship conferences was more about containing the size of the playoffs, which was and is a legitimate argument. With the PFL it's different- it's a waste of a playoff spot for a conference that doesn't want to get better.

[FargoBison]

It's not, and never has been, about "proving they should have a bid". It's about access to the playoffs, and why should certain conferences be excluded from the playoffs if they want to be a part of it.

If you'll recall, folks were arguing the exact same logic in regards to denying the NEC and Big South the autobid a couple of years ago: "just because you're FCS doesn't mean you should get an autobid", "they should qualify as an at-large before they should even be in consideration", etc.

It's funny to see people get exercised about denying conferences bids. It's like they're scared or something.

I thought the NEC and Big South were very deserving of the opportunity, both had earned it. I have no respect for the Pioneer football league, in my opinion the conference is largely a joke and I wish the NCAA would let them play in the division they really want to be in.

I don't care if people don't like that opinion, it is reality until the Pioneer does something to prove otherwise. Adding them and more at-large teams just further dilutes the field.

[FargoBison]

Nonsense. I invite you to come to watch a Lafayette/Lehigh game and then write that we play "D-III football." Go watch the Harvard/Yale game and then call that "D-III football." You try dragging Penn and Lehigh and Princeton and Colgate up and down the field, year after year, and see if you think it's "D-III football." I don't think so.



Who's "we?" Division II teams that only recently qualified for the D-I playoffs? Excluding the teams that invented college football and created the NCAA to begin with? Try getting a perspective.

The B.S. really is flying around this place, isn't it?

I'm only talking about the Pioneer League...this has nothing to do with the Patriot League. People should know on this site that those conference operate on two very different levels.

[Dane96]

Others have pointed this out, but non-scholarship FCS is really not the same as a weaker D-I basketball conference or something. It's more like D-III football. Putting that aside though, there just isn't any benefit to giving the PFL an AQ. Whereas a conference with scholarships or equivalents might then be motivated to improve, there is no reason to think that will happen with non-scholarship programs. The whole point is that they won't spend real money on football. They will just be an automatic win for some lucky team every year.

Really- Non-scholarship (or 6 rides split among 11 guys) Albany beat Delaware.

Moving along...

[whoanellie]

the selection people have to do a better job of seeding as the field expands. higher seeded teams sure need to host
and not some "traditional" programs out bid for a mediocre season. I understand economics have a lot to do with it and weather in December
sure has played havoc as well. 24 teams sure some additional wiggle room to the 3rd and 4th place qualifiers in the power conferences.

[henfan]

It's not, and never has been, about "proving they should have a bid". It's about access to the playoffs, and why should certain conferences be excluded from the playoffs if they want to be a part of it.

I wasn't aware that the NCAA ever had a prohibition on certain conferences participating in its D-I football postseason. Please explain.

[youwouldno]

Really- Non-scholarship (or 6 rides split among 11 guys) Albany beat Delaware.

Moving along...

Irrelevant but, in any case, Albany was in the process of bolstering its program. Inclusion in the playoffs is an incentive to continue doing so. The PFL teams are not doing this- in fact, the entire purpose of the conference is to avoid it.

[Bogus Megapardus]

I'm only talking about the Pioneer League...this has nothing to do with the Patriot League. People should know on this site that those conference operate on two very different levels.

Non scholarship = Ivy, Patriot, Pioneer

Partial scholarship = NEC

Full Scholarship = everybody else

[youwouldno]

Student athletes pay significant portion of tuition = PFL

Partial scholarship = NEC

Student athletes pay little or nothing = Ivy, Patriot

Full Scholarship = everybody else

Fixed it for you.

[FargoBison]

Non scholarship = Ivy, Patriot, Pioneer

Partial scholarship = NEC

Full Scholarship = everybody else

Dude your school has something like a $4 million football budget...Drake is pushing $800k. I respect the heck out of the Patriot...I have none for the PFL.

[MR. CHICKEN]

Non scholarship = Ivy, Patriot, Pioneer

Partial scholarship = NEC

Full Scholarship = everybody else

16215.....DON'T MAKE ME...PLAY...DUH PELL GRANT CARD..........xdontknowx.....BRAWK!

[Mr. C]

With the playoffs soon moving to 24 teams, should the NCAA look at reviewing the AQ process?

Right now basically all a league has to do is have a minimum # of teams & apply. Once the PFL gets their autobid then every league that has asked for one has received one.

I'd suggest that if a league doesn't play to a "competitive standard" than their AQ should be taken back until their level of play reaches a certain level.

How many years in a row does a league need to go "one and done" before the standard of play in that league is questioned?

Thoughts....

Dumb idea. We need 12 auto bids (give one to the PFL and hold a gun to the Ivy League's head) to get to a more balanced 24-team playoff bracket, not less. Who would you replace with an auto. Maybe we could make a rule where Delaware automatically gets into the field and the whole CAA makes it every year. Like others have pointed out, success in the playoffs by a conference is not the most accurate way to figure out their strength. Maybe some of those conferences go out in the first round every year because of the tough draws they face.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I wasn't aware that the NCAA ever had a prohibition on certain conferences participating in its D-I football postseason. Please explain.

The NCAA never has prohibited it. However, the FCS did limit the accessibility of the playoffs to the NEC and Big South.

How? By having some conferences have access to an autobid, and others not.

There are certain standards that need to be met to get an autobid. The NEC and Big South argued that they met the criteria, and that it was unfair that they were denied a postseason opportunity. And a majority of FCS conferences agreed. That's why there is a 20 team playoff today.

Scholarships were never part of the issue - because there are no scholarship minimums to be in any NCAA division, so how can you use that to (in effect) limit playoff participation? There are plenty of schools in plenty of sports that mix scholarships and need-based aid that mix the two, so why should football be any different?

Once you've established that exclusion from having an autobid is not equal access to the playoffs (which it is), and you determine that it's in violation of the spirit of NCAA championships (which it is), it leaves it up to the conferences to pick and choose whether they want to participate in the playoffs or not. The Ivy (explicitly) and SWAC (implicitly) choose not to participate, while the PFL chose not to in the past, since they didn't offer scholarships and their members frequently scheduled a lot of sub-D-I games.

Now, the PFL wants an autobid. Do you deny them the autobid?

[Dane96]

LFN- need to correct you on one thing; there are overall scholarship minimums that schools must meet to stay at the DI level (added up across all sports).

Further, there IS a scholarship minimum for FBS- I think it is 75? Forget the exact number.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

LFN- need to correct you on one thing; there are overall scholarship minimums that schools must meet to stay at the DI level (added up across all sports).

Further, there IS a scholarship minimum for FBS- I think it is 75? Forget the exact number.

That's a good point. But still, at FCS you can offer 0 football scholarships, yet still give scholarships in (say) basketball, and make the minimum. I guess I should have said "football scholarship minimums".

I thought the key difference in FBS was that if you offer a scholarship, it's got to be a "full ride" - no partials, or splitting of scholarships.

[Dane96]

"FBS schools have additional requirements: provide 90 percent of the maximum allowable football scholarships and offer at least 200 scholarships or at least $4 million in total athletic scholarships across all sports."

[UAalum72]

I don't recall any argument about the Big South getting an autobid once the league grew to six qualified teams, other than the keep-it-exclusive crowd. I suspect the NEC still might not have a bid except the need to balance the Big South. The playoffs had to be expanded because there's no way the NCAA would take an autobid away from the OVC or MEAC no matter how long they went since their last playoff win.

FCS football remains the only NCAA level in which every willing and eligible conference does not have its champion go to the playoffs.

[Reign of Terrier]

I think there needs to be a requirement in terms of minimum wins, not just D1 wins. There should not be a team in the playoffs with only 6 wins from the Big South.

[jmufan999]

Like others have pointed out, success in the playoffs by a conference is not the most accurate way to figure out their strength.

Huh? Then what is the most accurate way?