FCS Playoff Expansion in 2012 or 2013?

[superman7515]

ODU President - FCS Playoffs May Expand in 2013 (http://hamptonroads.com/2011/10/odu-president-fcs-playoffs-may-expand-2013)


Old Dominion University president John Broderick said Thursday morning that the NCAA is moving forward with plans to expand the Football Championship Subdivision playoff pool from 20 to 24 teams.

But it might not happen until 2013.

Broderick is one of four university presidents who on Wednesday in Indianapolis proposed the idea of expanding the FCS playoffs to the NCAA board of directors.

He was joined on his committee by Weber State’s F. Ann Millner, Jacksonville State’s Bill Meehan and Coastal Carolina’s David A. DeCenzo.

“We need to elevate this tournament and make it a reflection of the energy and enthusiasm of other NCAA tournaments,” said Broderick by telephone as he prepared to fly home to Norfolk....

Click on the link for the full article.

[henfan]

Cancelling regular season games in favor of a double elimination tournament cannot be far behind. xsmhx

Heck, just get it out of the way now and give every team a trophy before the season begins; that and juiceboxes.

[bojeta]

Expanding the playoff field to be more equitable is not akin to trophies for every player. It only ensures that "deserving" teams have access to the playoff system. Only one team is ultimately crowned champ and, if they're the best, they'll earn it. This is long overdue. It's always just been a shortage of money standing in the way as far as I can tell.

[jmufan999]

Cancelling regular season games in favor of a double elimination tournament cannot be far behind. xsmhx

Heck, just get it out of the way now and give every team a trophy before the season begins; that and juiceboxes.

Rep points for this. I also appreciate that you spell "cancelling" with 2 L's, as I do. Just looks better.

This thing is getting ridiculous. 16 was the PERFECT number. Perfect. This is just getting silly. It's probably good for conferences like the Big South. They're not a "power" conference, but they're probably good enough to get the attention of the selection committee. Maybe they get 2 teams in? Other "lesser" conferences will not be affected.

[LakesBison]

HELL NO. this is stupid. 16 is perfect. have you seen the crap teams in FCS?

if you cant finish in top 10, with 6 autobids, dont bother.

why dont we just give a freakin ribbon to every team.

[GaSouthern]

I think this is terrible, what are they going to do, add another MEAC(no offense) or non scholly team for SoCon/caa teams to crush in the first round?

[danefan]

It's going to happen and the PFL will get an AQ.

Get over it.

Hopefully the Ivy will get on board too, although I won't hold my breath.

[GaSouthern]

Hopefully the Ivy will get on board too, although I won't hold my breath.

A promise from them to play in the playoffs would be the only reason that I would be a fan of this expansion.

[FargoBison]

A promise from them to play in the playoffs would be the only reason that I would be a fan of this expansion.

Agreed, the Ivy's coming on board would be the only way I'd support it. Until then, the Pioneer can pound sand for all I care.

[MTfan4life]

It's always interesting adding new teams into the mix. It'd be nice to get auto-bids from more conferences. Now that they've moved to 20 teams, having 24 doesn't hurt anyone. The schedule stays the same, just a couple more teams get a chance to be proven wrong. Nothing wrong with that!

[putter]

4 more teams - this will just turn into March Madness. CAA get 6 teams, the SoCon gets 5 and the Big Sky and MVC get 4 each etc. (power conferences just get more of their teams in) which leaves the other conferences to complain about being ignored.

[JMUNJ08]

4 more teams - this will just turn into March Madness. CAA get 6 teams, the SoCon gets 5 and the Big Sky and MVC get 4 each etc. (power conferences just get more of their teams in) which leaves the other conferences to complain about being ignored.

Big Fluffy with 4 in?!?!?

Yeah, 24 is too much xlolxxlolx

Otherwise, it will allow them to seed the top 8 teams which sounds good to me xthumbsupx 3 CAA seeds coming xchinscratchx

[NHwildEcat]

24 teams...does that mean the CAA coaches poll top 4 get byes? If so I am in!

[jmufan999]

3 CAA seeds coming xchinscratchx

You know, I hadn't thought of it that way... kinda like the sound of it.

JMU, UNH, UD?

JMU, UD, Towson?

JMU, Maine, Towson?

JMU, UNH, W&M?

So many possibilities. :)

[Bogus Megapardus]

Agreed, the Ivy's coming on board would be the only way I'd support it. Until then, the Pioneer can pound sand for all I care.

Ivy always has been eligible for an auto-bid, even before the expansion. Additional expansion will not affect Ivy policy. About the only thing I can think of that might change the policy is if Ivy were to be be guaranteed all home games throughout the playoffs, all the time, including the Championship game.

[dgtw]

I think every league should get an autobid, just as they do in basketball.

[LakesBison]

cant anyone put a stop to this, this is an embarassment to let more than 20 in. 16 would be better

[MTfan4life]

What exactly is embarrassing about having 20 or 24 in the playoffs? This is basically the same ratio as Div. I college basketball's tournament.

[SumItUp]

Lakes, you're just afraid you might get matched up with UND in a future playoff game.

[UNH Fanboi]

I hate the fact that there is now a "play-in" round. Teams 13-16 really get screwed by having to play an extra game that they did not previously have to play. If the field is expanded to 24, another two teams will have to play an extra game. Good luck to the winner of the Patriot League-NEC play-in game who has to face a well-rested Montana team in Missoula.

[MTfan4life]

Georgia Southern didn't have a problem winning a play-in game and then winning easily on the road against W&M last season. Also, if the field is expanded to 24, four extra teams will have to play another game. Teams 9-24 will play in the first round and 1-8 will get byes. This just further rewards the teams who have quality regular seasons. Also it adds more teams to the fun. Now there would be a little extra incentive to get to the top 18 during the regular season. They would probably have some slight regions anyways. Patriot/NEC would very likely play a top CAA team.

[veinup]

what is this "big fluffy" talk? i do not understand.

[frozennorth]

My theory has always been that teams that aren't good enough to win their conferences aren't good enough to win a national championship

[MTfan4life]

My theory has always been that teams that aren't good enough to win their conferences aren't good enough to win a national championship

Under this theory, Richmond wasn't good enough to win a national championship in 2008, but I'm pretty sure they did. Was that just an outlier then? Last year, Eastern Washington did not win the Big Sky's automatic bid.

[Jackman]

You guys sound like BCS presidents insisting that the WAC champion isn't worthy of inclusion in their postseason. All we need is someone to make a "little sisters of the poor" reference.

[veinup]

My theory has always been that teams that aren't good enough to win their conferences aren't good enough to win a national championship

your theory is wrong, bro.

[danefan]

You guys sound like BCS presidents insisting that the WAC champion isn't worthy of inclusion in their postseason. All we need is someone to make a "little sisters of the poor" reference.

+1

[dgtw]

You guys sound like BCS presidents insisting that the WAC champion isn't worthy of inclusion in their postseason. All we need is someone to make a "little sisters of the poor" reference.

Exactly. This is why I don't like the "plus one" model some are proposing for the FBS, where the winners of the toip two BCS games would play for the BCS title. Then they'd claim they had a "playoff" for a national championship.

That's a load of BS. Unless they take every FCS conference winner and then as many at large teams as they like, it will not be a real national title. Will the Sun Belt champ advance very far every year in my playoff proposal? Unlikely, but that's how they do it in every other sport.

I don't have a problem with the playoff field not being an exponential factor of two. Having byes rewards teams for having a very good season by making them a higher seed.

[Milktruck74]

Will the AQ from the PL have to play on a Tuesday morning when nobody is watching, just like the Basketball pigtail? Hahaha.

[Saint3333]

Read the sig, hello 6-5 CAA and SoCon teams to the playoffs. No one outside of the top 12 has ever won the championship.

[GaSouthern]

Yeah, i'm all for going back to 16 teams

[Hammerhead]

Last year NDSU was one one of the play-in teams and made it to the semifinals where they lost in overtime to the eventual champion.


My theory has always been that teams that aren't good enough to win their conferences aren't good enough to win a national championship

[UNH Fanboi]

My problem with giving every conference an autobid is that there are no minimum standards. As of now anyone with a D1 basketball team and 11 warm bodies can have an FCS team. What separates the Pioneer League from a DIII conference?

[darell1976]

4 more teams - this will just turn into March Madness. CAA get 6 teams, the SoCon gets 5 and the Big Sky and MVC get 4 each etc. (power conferences just get more of their teams in) which leaves the other conferences to complain about being ignored.

Montana, Montana State, Cal Poly, and....NORTH DAKOTA!!!!

[MTfan4life]

Last year NDSU was one one of the play-in teams and made it to the semifinals where they lost in overtime to the eventual champion.

NDSU only made it to the quarterfinals last season. The semifinals, which usually features 4 teams, involved Eastern, Villanova, Delaware, and Georgia Southern.

[bluehenbillk]

Don't know what the uproar seriously is. When the NCAA expanded to 20 it was a foregone conclusion that 24 was coming as well, just a matter of when, not if. It'll go to 24 & it will stay there. Just more bids for the major FCS conferences. The "little sisters of the poor leagues" will still be all gone by the time the quarters come around...:)

[henfan]

Expanding the playoff field to be more equitable is not akin to trophies for every player. It only ensures that "deserving" teams have access to the playoff system.

I call horseshxt on that comment. You obviously have a very broad definition of the term 'deserving'.

I'm a proponent of a playoff but way too much emphasis is being placed on what is already becoming a bloated post-season. Why stop at 24? Why not 48? It's only an extra week added to the season. 96 only adds another 2 weeks. And since we're at 96, why stop there? Who's to say that #96 is any less "deserving" than #120? Only a BCS-loving facist would insist so.

Juiceboxes for everyone!

[asknoquarter21]

I don't see this as all that bad.

I think the 5th socon or CAA team will get to beat up on the PL champ and actually notch some playoff wins.

This seems like a fair way to get rid of the teams that shouldn't be in the playoffs in the first place.

[MR. CHICKEN]

16214......NOW DUH NCAA....WILL HAVE TA PAY EXTRA...FO' TRAVEL AN' TEAM EXPENSES.....WHICH ARE DUH BANE O' DUH PLAYOFF AFFAIR....(PREPARE TA DIG DEEP..FO' TIX)....AN'..OH YEAH.....WHAA...'BOUT TEAM #25...xconfusedx.............BRAWK!

[danefan]

16214......NOW DUH NCAA....WILL HAVE TA PAY EXTRA...FO' TRAVEL AN' TEAM EXPENSES.....WHICH ARE DUH BANE O' DUH PLAYOFF AFFAIR....(PREPARE TA DIG DEEP..FO' TIX)....AN'..OH YEAH.....WHAA...'BOUT TEAM #25...xconfusedx.............BRAWK!

Which is exactly why its tied to getting more "corporate sponsorship".

[Saint3333]

The playoffs don't make money. If it's tied to corporate sponsorship before they can expand, let's first cover the costs of the existing field. This sounds like a government plan to me.

[danefan]

The playoffs don't make money. If it's tied to corporate sponsorship before they can expand, let's first cover the costs of the existing field. This sounds like a government plan to me.

Sounds like the NCAA is OK with losing the money they currently lose, but doesn't want to necessarily lose anymore to expand.

There is money out there for the playoffs, unfortunately a lot of it is tied to getting the SWAC and Ivy to get on board. You add those two conferences and there will instantly be more money available to the Playoffs. Unfortunately, it doesn't really benefit the SWAC to do so.

[TheValleyRaider]

I call horseshxt on that comment. You obviously have a very broad definition of the term 'deserving'.

I'm a proponent of a playoff but way too much emphasis is being placed on what is already becoming a bloated post-season. Why stop at 24? Why not 48? It's only an extra week added to the season. 96 only adds another 2 weeks. And since we're at 96, why stop there? Who's to say that #96 is any less "deserving" than #120? Only a BCS-loving facist would insist so.

Juiceboxes for everyone!

xlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolx

If we're identifying animal feces, let's keep going. You want to laugh at the concept of deserving, but suddenly going from 20 to 24 teams is one small step from one giant, season-long playoff for everyone?

And really, suggesting a BCS lover would go for this kind of plan? We're supposed to take that seriously? A system based on preserving the big money and prestige games for a few conferences to the exclusion of the rest?

http://veryknowledge.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/cmonman.jpg?w=506&h=189

[URMite]

So if it goes from 20 to 24 and the PFL gets an AQ, Does someone get the 12th AQ? And who is it?

[danefan]

Here's my view as a fan of a team playing in a lower tier conference:

I am in favor of expansion to 24 teams for the following reasons:
1. The PFL should get an AQ. They will get better if they get playoff access. The fans will be into the teams more and the schools will realize that they need to improve if they want to compete. Its happening at the NEC schools already and I see no reason why some of the PFL schools who have shown a desire to compete nationally in other sports won't follow.
2. 24 teams leaves a natural spot for a new AQ to be awarded when requested. That could be a new league (AEast perhaps?) or the Ivy's or SWAC if they change their minds. Either way its good for the playoffs.

I am not in favor at this time to expand any further than 24 teams. That truly will cause some watering down on the At-large front. My opinion might change if we see an influx of FBS teams moving down, which I doubt is going to happen anytime in the next decade.

[professor8315]

Playoff expansin is a good move.

16 teams playoff didn't represent the numbers of schools that represent the FCS. The FCS playoffs expanded from 12 to 16 teams in 1987 and has remained at that level till last season. During that time, 28 additional teams have moved up to the FCS ranks.

There 126 teams playing in the FCS, including five independents making the transition into full membership. Compare to the 120 teams that are in the Football Bowl Subdivision. If the FBS sent only 16 or 20 schools to the postseason, people might make the argument that too few, not too many, were involved. This year, a record 70 schools will play in bowl games.

The playoff system in NCAA Division II is at 24, while Division III invites 32 teams. There is room for growth in the FCS playoffs.

FCS does it the right way by using a playoff to determine its national champ. The winner it determined on the field and not by a computer ranking. So I will not automatically say a CAA nor SoCon will run through the beacket to the championship game. On any given Saturday anthing could happen.

[frozennorth]

Last year NDSU was one one of the play-in teams and made it to the semifinals where they lost in overtime to the eventual champion.

I suppose you think you have a point here? Ndsu didn't deserve a playoff spot after a 4-4 season.

[frozennorth]

Under this theory, Richmond wasn't good enough to win a national championship in 2008, but I'm pretty sure they did. Was that just an outlier then? Last year, Eastern Washington did not win the Big Sky's automatic bid.

If richmond didn't win its conference, it should have never been in the playoffs.

[UNH Fanboi]

Here's my view as a fan of a team playing in a lower tier conference:

I am in favor of expansion to 24 teams for the following reasons:
1. The PFL should get an AQ. They will get better if they get playoff access. The fans will be into the teams more and the schools will realize that they need to improve if they want to compete. Its happening at the NEC schools already and I see no reason why some of the PFL schools who have shown a desire to compete nationally in other sports won't follow.
2. 24 teams leaves a natural spot for a new AQ to be awarded when requested. That could be a new league (AEast perhaps?) or the Ivy's or SWAC if they change their minds. Either way its good for the playoffs.

I am not in favor at this time to expand any further than 24 teams. That truly will cause some watering down on the At-large front. My opinion might change if we see an influx of FBS teams moving down, which I doubt is going to happen anytime in the next decade.

How will the PFL get better if the entire premise of their league is to play football as cheaply as possible? The gap between scholarship and non-scholarship programs will only continue to grow as tuition becomes more expensive. Even scholarship leagues like the OVC and MEAC have failed to win a playoff game for almost a decade (or maybe even more, I'm not sure) despite having the AQ.

I'm fine with inclusiveness, but there has to be some minimum standard for getting an AQ. The PFL is a glorified DIII league.

[darell1976]

You have FBS, FCS, DII, DIII...based on on-field performance where would the PFL teams land? Are they better than DII and DIII? Would be be with the NAIA crowd?

[danefan]

How will the PFL get better if the entire premise of their league is to play football as cheaply as possible? The gap between scholarship and non-scholarship programs will only continue to grow as tuition becomes more expensive. Even scholarship leagues like the OVC and MEAC have failed to win a playoff game for almost a decade (or maybe even more, I'm not sure) despite having the AQ.

I'm fine with inclusiveness, but there has to be some minimum standard for getting an AQ. The PFL is a glorified DIII league.

I'm not saying the PFL will be good enough to win a National Championship. I'm saying having a goal of the playoffs will result in the league raising its profile. You guys that have been fans of teams in AQ leagues take the AQ's and the effect on recruiting for granted. We've seen first hand what it does. It excites the fan base and the school. That helps create a better atmosphere which helps recruit.

[danefan]

You have FBS, FCS, DII, DIII...based on on-field performance where would the PFL teams land? Are they better than DII and DIII? Would be be with the NAIA crowd?

IMO, the top of the PFL is equal to the Top of the NEC, MEAC and SWAC and the PL in normal years (not this year - Lehigh is really good).

There are certainly teams in DIII that would compete in the PFL, as they would in the PL, NEC, MEAC, OVC and other mid-level FCS teams. Same goes for DII teams and NAIA teams.

[darell1976]

IMO, the top of the PFL is equal to the Top of the NEC, MEAC and SWAC and the PL in normal years (not this year - Lehigh is really good).

There are certainly teams in DIII that would compete in the PFL, as they would in the PL, NEC, MEAC, OVC and other mid-level FCS teams. Same goes for DII teams and NAIA teams.

I never knew anything about the PFL until we played Drake in our season opener. We won 16-0 and I thought Drake played a tough game. I say the PFL should get an AQ if they expand the playoffs. You never know what will happen in the playoffs.

[Saint3333]

1. The PFL should get an AQ. They will get better if they get playoff access. The fans will be into the teams more and the schools will realize that they need to improve if they want to compete. Its happening at the NEC schools already and I see no reason why some of the PFL schools who have shown a desire to compete nationally in other sports won't follow.

- "should" - based on what? They will get better but that is a relative term. Without scholarships they will not be able to compete even in the early rounds.

2. 24 teams leaves a natural spot for a new AQ to be awarded when requested. That could be a new league (AEast perhaps?) or the Ivy's or SWAC if they change their minds. Either way its good for the playoffs.

- Agree if the AQs go to the Ivy and SWAC, otherwise no need to expand.

I am not in favor at this time to expand any further than 24 teams. That truly will cause some watering down on the At-large front. My opinion might change if we see an influx of FBS teams moving down, which I doubt is going to happen anytime in the next decade.

- too late to stop the watering down. If we expand further you'll have 24 teams and 16 teams from the SoCon, CAA, MVC, and Big Sky remaining after the first week. What are we really trying to accomplish by expansion? No FBS program will be moving down. If anything the BCS will break off and we'll see a three tier division one. The BCS, playoff subdivision (with real minimums for funding as it should have been from the beginning), and cost containment division one.

[youwouldno]

Also keep in mind, the PFL is a country-spanning, football-only conference. Even though in capability terms it is currently similar to the NEC, the latter is a real conference with a clear goal of improving.

If Davidson wanted to play real football, why don't they play in the SoCon? Why doesn't Drake play in the MVFC? Why doesn't San Diego look to join one of the conferences out west?

We are not talking about programs trying to work their way up. These are schools that want to be rewarded for opting out of real investment in football.

[dgtw]

Suppose your favorite school joins the FBS, but is not a member of a BCS league. Will you not complain if your team goes 12-0 but is shut out of the BCS bowls? After all, you would be spending a fraction of what Alabama spends. If your doing it on the cheap, you shouldn't get to sit at the big boys table.

[TheValleyRaider]

If we expand further you'll have 24 teams and 16 teams from the SoCon, CAA, MVC, and Big Sky remaining after the first week.

You mean like last year, when that 16 team field included Lehigh (who beat an MVFC team to get there), SFA, SEMO and Jacksonville State? xscanx


If Davidson wanted to play real football, why don't they play in the SoCon? Why doesn't Drake play in the MVFC? Why doesn't San Diego look to join one of the conferences out west?

We are not talking about programs trying to work their way up. These are schools that want to be rewarded for opting out of real investment in football.

I didn't realize Davidson was actually playing sprint football xrolleyesx

Last I checked they lined up 11 guys on each side of the line, matriculated the ball down the field, and scored touchdowns worth 6 points. How their financial aid status somehow makes it less than "real football" is not really something I understand

[TheValleyRaider]

Suppose your favorite school joins the FBS, but is not a member of a BCS league. Will you not complain if your team goes 12-0 but is shut out of the BCS bowls? After all, you would be spending a fraction of what Alabama spends. If your doing it on the cheap, you shouldn't get to sit at the big boys table.

Boise State on Line 1....

[youwouldno]

I didn't realize Davidson was actually playing sprint football xrolleyesx

Last I checked they lined up 11 guys on each side of the line, matriculated the ball down the field, and scored touchdowns worth 6 points. How their financial aid status somehow makes it less than "real football" is not really something I understand

You can nitpick my word choice but the question remains unanswered- why should Davidson get an easier shot at an AQ than Wofford? Private schools of similar size, in the same conference for everything except Davidson opts out of SoCon football. An AQ to the PFL rewards de-emphasis of football, rather than encouraging an investment in it.

[RabidRabbit]

Both CAA and New Big Sky could be split to get new AQ's. Or just award each "division" and AQ. Resolves the issue of what happens if teams who won each division didn't play each other. But yes, I'd prefer the Ivy got off their high horse, and gave their good team a chance at a national title again.

[Mntneer]

You mean like last year, when that 16 team field included Lehigh (who beat an MVFC team to get there), SFA, SEMO and Jacksonville State? xscanx



I didn't realize Davidson was actually playing sprint football xrolleyesx

Last I checked they lined up 11 guys on each side of the line, matriculated the ball down the field, and scored touchdowns worth 6 points. How their financial aid status somehow makes it less than "real football" is not really something I understand

Substitute "Division I" for "real" and then maybe you will.

[RichH2]

[QUOTE=youwouldno;1708166]You can nitpick my word choice but the question remains unanswered- why should Davidson get an easier shot at an AQ than Wofford? Private schools of similar size, in the same conference for everything except Davidson opts out of SoCon football. An AQ to the PFL rewards de-emphasis of football, rather than encouraging an investment in it.[/QUOT
Any sport with different divisions or conferences results in some apparent unfairness. In many years, AL East 1 thru 3 best in AL but at least 1 frozen out to get anAL central team in. I,too am somewhat befuddled by the analogy that only those schools that spend $$$ on football deserve to AQ the playoffs. Likewise your argument that PFL would have no incentive to improve if given an AQ.I dffer ,a few wallopings does provide incentive to avoid embarrassment. While I donotknow how you classify the PL, we are still moving up in fits and starts 1st with increased equivalencies and soon merit aid .The incentive for which was specifically our experiences in the playoffs and getting our clocks cleaned by Ivy and CAA every year

[Saint3333]

Suppose your favorite school joins the FBS, but is not a member of a BCS league. Will you not complain if your team goes 12-0 but is shut out of the BCS bowls? After all, you would be spending a fraction of what Alabama spends. If your doing it on the cheap, you shouldn't get to sit at the big boys table.

You're talking about an at-large spot vs. AQ. If they were 12-0 and played two solid BCS programs yes I would. But if my team's schedule looked like the PFL's I wouldn't have a leg to stand on. If a PFL member schedules just one top 20 team and wins and then goes 11-0 in the FCS they get in the playoffs now. Why should their champion be entitled to a spot in the playoffs?

[youwouldno]

I,too am somewhat befuddled by the analogy that only those schools that spend $$$ on football deserve to AQ the playoffs. Likewise your argument that PFL would have no incentive to improve if given an AQ.I dffer ,a few wallopings does provide incentive to avoid embarrassment. While I donotknow how you classify the PL, we are still moving up in fits and starts 1st with increased equivalencies and soon merit aid .The incentive for which was specifically our experiences in the playoffs and getting our clocks cleaned by Ivy and CAA every year

The PFL basically exists because teams didn't want to compete in an AQ conference, e.g., Davidson in the SoCon. They denied themselves an AQ- the NCAA had nothing to do with it. Now they've conveniently changed their minds, but without any indication they take football more seriously than before.

[Reign of Terrier]

16 was perfect....20 less so, but at the end of the year ti seemed last year (and probably again this year) that there were about 16-18 "deserving teams" and the last 2 teams that got in were just there to fill in. SC state, Western Illinois, and Coastal Carolina didn't deserve a playoff bid

[LakesBison]

we need 16 back. 24 is foolish.

[TheValleyRaider]

You can nitpick my word choice but the question remains unanswered- why should Davidson get an easier shot at an AQ than Wofford? Private schools of similar size, in the same conference for everything except Davidson opts out of SoCon football. An AQ to the PFL rewards de-emphasis of football, rather than encouraging an investment in it.

I didn't realize winning a conference was so easy. It's amazing how some people here look at a conference like the Pioneer League and see some nefarious scheme to avoid "real" competition. That somehow allowing them into the postseason will reward them for "encouraging mediocrity." Conferences exist for a number of reasons, and maybe Davidson competes in the PFL because it wants to be associated with schools that share a similar commitment to having Division I football (and athletics), but are not prepared financially to spend equivalent money to schools elsewhere

Maybe some of your schools ought to schedule PFL teams, perhaps travelling to a couple? Why not? Scared?


Substitute "Division I" for "real" and then maybe you will.

Once again, the requirements for competing in Division I for the NCAA are spelled out quite clearly, and every member of the Pioneer League meets their minimums (as does every other member school). Spending less money on another sport, like basketball, does not diminish their access to the postseason. Why should it in football?

[Reign of Terrier]

I'm all for giving every conference an autobid, but not at the expense at putting the pioneer champ in before a bunch of 7-4 CAA, Socon, Big Sky, or MVC teams. So expand the field, but not beyond 24. The top 5 in the mentioned conferences would run the table to different extents of ease in the Pioneer, Big South, NEC, SWAC, MEAC, maybe the Ivies, and in most years the Patriot, but not this year.

[Engineer86]

Substitute "Division I" for "real" and then maybe you will.

Now this I agree with. It is a clear line that would identify teams that are there for football versus those that are there to be eligible for Basketball money. Maybe this would move the Patriot League presidents.

[youwouldno]

I didn't realize winning a conference was so easy. It's amazing how some people here look at a conference like the Pioneer League and see some nefarious scheme to avoid "real" competition. That somehow allowing them into the postseason will reward them for "encouraging mediocrity." Conferences exist for a number of reasons, and maybe Davidson competes in the PFL because it wants to be associated with schools that share a similar commitment to having Division I football (and athletics), but are not prepared financially to spend equivalent money to schools elsewhere

Maybe some of your schools ought to schedule PFL teams, perhaps travelling to a couple? Why not? Scared?

Davidson is in the SoCon for every other sport. They certainly have the financial resources to play SoCon football. Their "commitment" to having D-I football is to not really have it. If they aren't "prepared" to use their resources to compete in football, then they don't deserve auto-bid eligibility.

Actually there was a PFL-SoCon game this year; 7th best SoCon team Citadel crushed PFL-leading Jacksonville.

[FargoBison]

Davidson is in the SoCon for every other sport. They certainly have the financial resources to play SoCon football. Their "commitment" to having D-I football is to not really have it. If they aren't "prepared" to use their resources to compete in football, then they don't deserve auto-bid eligibility.

Actually there was a PFL-SoCon game this year; 7th best SoCon team Citadel crushed PFL-leading Jacksonville.

Jacksonville also lost to WIU, a team that has just one MVFC win.

[SDFS]

My problem with giving every conference an autobid is that there are no minimum standards. As of now anyone with a D1 basketball team and 11 warm bodies can have an FCS team. What separates the Pioneer League from a DIII conference?

The biggest problem with FCS playoffs is not the auto bids to PFL or the other weak conferences in FCS. It is allowing wins over them to count toward the 7 wins standard and allowing unproven teams to become playoff eligible. Versus other teams who may play a much more difficult D II opponent in nonconference and it does not count toward the 7 wins.

So, now the PFL and/or the other no commitment to football teams have a currency which is nonconference auto wins for sale to the highest bidding FCS teams. FCS has three types of the playoff teams - auto bid teams, play-in teams and pay-in teams.

[DetroitFlyer]

It is absolutely comical to read posts by the FCS Elite crying about the amount of money the PFL spends on football. The ONLY reason FCS exists is for cost containment.... Let me repeat that for those of you that have a degree from an FCS State U.... FCS exists for cost containment, period. There is absolutely no other reason. If you want to run with the big boys, drag your sorry programs to the FBS level and get the he-l out of FCS. PLEASE, do not let the door hit you on the way out. Personally, I am looking forward to the first PFL win in the FCS playoffs.

[youwouldno]

It is absolutely comical to read posts by the FCS Elite crying about the amount of money the PFL spends on football. The ONLY reason FCS exists is for cost containment.... Let me repeat that for those of you that have a degree from an FCS State U.... FCS exists for cost containment, period.

There's a big difference between 'cost containment' and spending the absolute bare minimum. Dayton could afford to field a legit FCS program, but chooses not to. That's taking advantage of lax NCAA standards- quite the opposite of what was intended for FCS/I-AA. It was certainly never meant to be glorified D-III ball.

[TheBisonator]

Back in 1978, FCS/I-AA was intended to be a slightly more scaled-down version of FBS/I-A. It was not intended to be a twin sibling to DIII football.

There's a LARGE desert separating the category of mid-level DI, low FBS/high FCS, 63 full-ride, 15,000 fans per game type of programs and the kind of product the PFL is churning out onto the conveyer belt.

Even programs like SE Louisiana, Coastal Carolina and SEMO have FCS programs in THE WAY FCS INTENDED TO BE. The PFL is an entirely other separate thing from that.

[Saint3333]

There's a big difference between 'cost containment' and spending the absolute bare minimum. Dayton could afford to field a legit FCS program, but chooses not to. That's taking advantage of lax NCAA standards- quite the opposite of what was intended for FCS/I-AA. It was certainly never meant to be glorified D-III ball.

You are all over these. The problem with the FCS is the lack of minimum funding requirements. If schools don't want to fund the sport don't complain about not having a spot at the table.

[TheValleyRaider]

You are all over these. The problem with the FCS is the lack of minimum funding requirements. If schools don't want to fund the sport don't complain about not having a spot at the table.

So in other words, because they don't meet your minimum standard of "trying hard enough," they don't deserve an opportunity to compete xrolleyesx

[Engineer86]

While I can see the point that the Citadel could play in the SoCon if they want to compete at a high level of FCS, doesn't this come back to schools trying to stay at the Division I level for basketball (Georgetown) but not really wanting D I football. Then you have state school's from smaller states with overall limited budgets along with some private schools that want to compete at a national level. These are very different focuses, yet the current NCAA rules lump them all into one bucket.

It would be nice if this issue was addressed this, but they have/will not. Given that, it seems like most of the FCS power conference people prefer 16 teams (so do I), is it a huge problem to allow the other schools the excitement of possibility? The increase from 20 to 24 at this point will like be split like this. One bid to PFL and 3 more to power conferences. To me this change makes little difference, the big change was going over 16 , which I would have rather seen not occur.

[Saint3333]

So in other words, because they don't meet your minimum standard of "trying hard enough," they don't deserve an opportunity to compete xrolleyesx

Nope. They have a OPPORTUNITY to compete, it's called the regular season. They control their schedule and the funding of the program. Until they PROVE they can compete in the regular season they do not deserve a shot at the playoffs. The sense of entitlement in society has bleed over into the world of college football.

[youwouldno]

Let's see if we can be a bit more objective in looking at how hard the PFL schools are trying. Here are two groups of 5 schools, A and B. One of them is made up of PFL members, the other FCS schools that compete in strong conferences. See if you can tell them apart by undergrad enrollment and endowment (data may be a year or two old in some cases):

A
School 1: 7,832 ($220 million)
School 2: 1,743 ($427 million)
School 3: 7,426 ($347 million)
School 4: 5,000 ($124 million)
School 5: 3,897 ($128 million)

B
School 1: 1,525 ($165 million)
School 2: 8,759 ($123 million)
School 3: 9,602 ($35 million)
School 4: 2,882 ($250 million)
School 5: 6,490 ($126 million)

***

The PFL schools are in a group A. Pop quiz based on this data:

1) Why doesn't the PFL support strong FCS programs?
a) Because they have too few students
b) Because they have too little money
c) Because they are cheap and don't care about football

2) What is the solution to the lack of investment by PFL programs?
a) Put in place minimum standards for access to the playoffs
b) Require a plan by the conference to improve it's competitive standing before granting an AQ
c) Reward them for doing nothing and taking advantage of existing low standards

[kardplayer]

It's not that they aren't good enough, it's just that if you want to have a small field you should have to earn your way into the tournament by winning your conference's title.

12 AQ conferences + 4 at larges gets you to 16. The 5th best at large will whine, but the argument is just "you should have won your conference"...