Slot/Wingback offense

[colgate13]

Any I-AA teams out there run some offensive sets with a second tailback as a slot or wingback? There's been some chatter from Colgate fans (and by Biddle's comments) that we might see some unique ways to get some of our tailback talent behind Jordhan Scott a chance to touch the ball. We've got easily 4 TBs who have legit reasons to get the ball and they're for the most part young.

So, any schools out there running offensives that use a second running back (not a fullback) to some degree? I'd love to get some opinons and more info.

[claydus]

Well Georgia Southern use to run the Flexbone Formation with 2 Slotbacks and 1 Fullback.

[MACHIAVELLI]

When the ICON goes to the "Wing-T" or "Double Wing "formation we have a wingback or two.

[Bub]

That was the O most of the high schools teams ran back here in the 70's. Gawd, has it been that long ago?:bawling:

[parr90]

When the ICON goes to the "Wing-T" or "Double Wing "formation we have a wingback or two.

ICON.........What a joke!

[Umass74]

Jimmie Reid ran a slotback/option offense at Richmond after his scholarships were cut.

I talked with him a number of times when he was at UMass and he insisted that the option put the most pressure on the defense.

One of our friends from VMI will have to fill us in on what offense he ran this spring. Keep in mind, he may yet not have the players he wants to run his system...

[mikebigg]

When the ICON goes to the "Wing-T" or "Double Wing "formation we have a wingback or two.

I expect to see it again this year...I expect we will see more designed run plays for Landers/Kerlegan. But we both know that with our pass game, it's gonna be airing it out again!!!!

[HensRock]

Any I-AA teams out there run some offensive sets with a second tailback as a slot or wingback? There's been some chatter from Colgate fans (and by Biddle's comments) that we might see some unique ways to get some of our tailback talent behind Jordhan Scott a chance to touch the ball. We've got easily 4 TBs who have legit reasons to get the ball and they're for the most part young.

So, any schools out there running offensives that use a second running back (not a fullback) to some degree? I'd love to get some opinons and more info.


13,
Here's a site you may find very interesting. It's all about the Delaware Wing-T.

http://www.bucksweep.com/

http://www.bucksweep.com/belly.gif

[MACHIAVELLI]

But we both know that with our pass game, it's gonna be airing it out again!!!!

We only have two 1,000 receivers returning...what are we gonna do :rolleyes:

[colgate13]

Thanks guys. I do not anticipate this turning into an option scheme but a more flexible package with a quick handoff, misdirection and a little play fake and airing it out.

Can some of you Grambling folks tell me a bit more about your offense? You definitely air it out but still use a wing now and again? How's that work and what type of players are you using in the wing - and are they running from it?

[GannonFan]

Thanks guys. I do not anticipate this turning into an option scheme but a more flexible package with a quick handoff, misdirection and a little play fake and airing it out.

Can some of you Grambling folks tell me a bit more about your offense? You definitely air it out but still use a wing now and again? How's that work and what type of players are you using in the wing - and are they running from it?

The Delaware Wing-T was never primarily an option-based attack (only in the Vergantino years was it heavy on the option) - it was often slants and misdirections. Wofford runs a hybrid of the Wing-T and the Wishbone that, although it does have some option, that they call the Wingbone.

[ngineer]

That was the O most of the high schools teams ran back here in the 70's. Gawd, has it been that long ago?:bawling:

And the late '60's...I was our HS team's wingback 37 years 37 years ago..my how time flies, and things that go-around, come around, the worm turns; here today, gone tomorrow,...:(

[McNeese75]

That was the O most of the high schools teams ran back here in the 70's. Gawd, has it been that long ago?:bawling:

Yep, been there, done that :D

[mikebigg]

Thanks guys. I do not anticipate this turning into an option scheme but a more flexible package with a quick handoff, misdirection and a little play fake and airing it out.

Can some of you Grambling folks tell me a bit more about your offense? You definitely air it out but still use a wing now and again? How's that work and what type of players are you using in the wing - and are they running from it?


We are basically a three receiver offense from a spread formation. Last year, we played former receiver Tim Abney (missed the entire previous season due to a severe groin injury) in tight like a hybird TightEnd (sorta like Shannon Sharpe was in the NFL). Bruce was in the gun with Ab Kuaan at running back. Short yardage we went (sometimes) to an I formation.

At least one series a half, we shift to the Double Wing with Double Tight (sometimes we brought over Hatcher and Duhe from Defensive End), two wing backs (kick returners Landry "Blue" Carter and speedster Keatwon Gray). When Ruben Mayes was healthy, he was the dive back...but last year, we used Ab Kuaan who is a good inside runner (a underrated football player)

We didn't run it exclusively because our offensive linemen were not good trap blockers. The two huge Tackles were more suited to the pass and the guards were okay at providing a push...Mayes and Kuuan ran hard inside and got good yardage on second effort. Remember though that those linemen were kinda winded from pass rushing so much...the run game came at a bad time for them.

[colgate13]

Thanks!

[Umass74]

Thanks guys. I do not anticipate this turning into an option scheme but a more flexible package with a quick handoff, misdirection and a little play fake and airing it out.

I did a poor job of explaining Richmond's offense. Reid had a two-back offense and a QB. It looked a simular to the old wishbone except both Spider backs were half facing each other. The back field looked like an upside down "Y". The handoff looked sorta like the old inside play of the Delaware wing "T".

It was tough to defense, but Reid didn't really have enough talent with his scholarships cut.

[Kill'em]

Well Georgia Southern use to run the Flexbone Formation with 2 Slotbacks and 1 Fullback.
I will miss that offense. :bawling:

[chantster]

I will miss that offense. :bawling:

Man, I really loved your offense. I'm gonna miss it, too.

Watching college games as a kid in the late 60's and 70's, I loved the wishbone and veer offenses that teams like Oklahoma, Texas, and Tennesse ran.

I hope Air Force and Navy still run the option attack.

[Kill'em]

As long as Paul Johnson is the Navy Head Coach, they will run the spread option. Remember, he was our Head Coach and created that offense.

[blukeys]

I did a poor job of explaining Richmond's offense. Reid had a two-back offense and a QB. It looked a simular to the old wishbone except both Spider backs were half facing each other. The back field looked like an upside down "Y". The handoff looked sorta like the old inside play of the Delaware wing "T".

It was tough to defense, but Reid didn't really have enough talent with his scholarships cut.


I know coaches get short changed all the time but if any coach got hosed it was Reid at Umass. He was and is a great defensive coach and of course by all accounts a great human being. He really got UMass back into the hunt before the admin pulled the rug out from under him. :eek:

What is even worse for Reid is that he ran into the same "lets's get cheap" mentality at Richmond and then was criticized for not winning.: smh :

[blukeys]

The Delaware Wing-T was never primarily an option-based attack (only in the Vergantino years was it heavy on the option) - it was often slants and misdirections. Wofford runs a hybrid of the Wing-T and the Wishbone that, although it does have some option, that they call the Wingbone.


The option "package" was installed in the Wing - T in the 60's (The Delaware Wing -T An order of Football) and the first UD QB to run the option was Tom DiMuzio in 1968. It was used less or more frequently depending on the QB. I thought Vergantino was the best UD QB at running the option with Leo Hamlett and Rick Scully right up there. Rich Gannon was a good option QB but he was more dangerous on roll outs and bootlegs. Scott Brunner ran the option well in '79.

The Wing-T gave the QB plenty of running opportunities of which the option was only one alternative.

[GannonFan]

The option "package" was installed in the Wing - T in the 60's (The Delaware Wing -T An order of Football) and the first UD QB to run the option was Tom DiMuzio in 1968. It was used less or more frequently depending on the QB. I thought Vergantino was the best UD QB at running the option with Leo Hamlett and Rick Scully right up there. Rich Gannon was a good option QB but he was more dangerous on roll outs and bootlegs. Scott Brunner ran the option well in '79.

The Wing-T gave the QB plenty of running opportunities of which the option was only one alternative.

I agree - DiMuzio was before my time so hence my lack of posting on him. Vergantino lived off the option - Hamlett sufferred by comparison since he came right after Vergantino's time. Gannon didn't run a lot of option as they tried to pass with him more - I agree witht he roll outs and bootlegs - he was also a stud when it came to scrambling as well - to this day he's stil the best scrambling QB I've seen in college. He was a man amongst boys out there sometimes.

[MR. CHICKEN]

$30K TUITION......BUT SKIMPY ON DUH PIGGY BUDGET?.......AWK!

WAS RICHMOND'S....PRESIDENT........GOIN' TA VEGAS...WHIFF DAT GOLFER?

[Umass74]

I know coaches get short changed all the time but if any coach got hosed it was Reid at Umass. He was and is a great defensive coach and of course by all accounts a great human being. He really got UMass back into the hunt before the admin pulled the rug out from under him.

What is even worse for Reid is that he ran into the same "lets's get cheap" mentality at Richmond and then was criticized for not winning.


Jim Reid deserved better than he got at UMass and Richmond.

I remember the day he left UMass. My wife called me to say that a local TV station was running a story on Reid. He was shown clearing out his office. UMass had cut scholarships to 35 a couple of days before letter-of-intent day------without telling Reid. He spent his last day calling his recruits.

Basically, the whole UMass 1992 recruiting class went elsewhere. That showed up in '94 and '95. :bawling:

Eventually, UMass restored some of the scholarships (to about the low 50's), but did not go to 63 until Whipple arrived in 1998.

Reid went to I-A as an assistant, then was hired at Richmond. Something like two years after he arrived, Richmond cut scholarships. His last couple of years, he just did not have the players to compete with big buck operations like Delaware or JMU...

[Frosty The Snowbuff]

That was the O most of the high schools teams ran back here in the 70's. Gawd, has it been that long ago?:bawling:


And just think.....I played WR in that formation in high school and now the school went spread after I quit the team. DAMN!!!!!! there went my opportunity.:bang:

[Frosty The Snowbuff]

If you wondering though ----

Nichollis runs Flexbone. Georgia Southern runs so many tyes of those formations it's Ridiculous (and I love it by da way GSU fans). Wofford does also (I think), Furman USED to...they got Martin and got pass happy. Seesh....after those I'm not sure who runs that anymore...maybe I can be a coach and run a spread package and an option package.

[Kill'em]

The spread option is getting popular with the highschools in SE Georgia.

[mikebigg]

The spread option is getting popular with the highschools in SE Georgia.

Good to hear... Guess you'll start seeing Coach Spears recruiting for the ICON over in that area.

[Mr. C]

I will miss that offense. :bawling:
It's still being run at Rhode Island, Bucknell and Nicholls State in I-AA. Of course, Paul Johnson was an absolute master at adjustments with that offense. One good reason to watch all those Navy games on CSTV.

[Mr. C]

If you wondering though ----

Nichollis runs Flexbone. Georgia Southern runs so many tyes of those formations it's Ridiculous (and I love it by da way GSU fans). Wofford does also (I think), Furman USED to...they got Martin and got pass happy. Seesh....after those I'm not sure who runs that anymore...maybe I can be a coach and run a spread package and an option package.
Everything Furman does is predicated on the I. They occasionally go into shotgun, or run a slot formation in passing situations, but the I and the power running game has been their bread and butter for years, maybe all the way back to Art Baker.

[colgate13]

Everything Furman does is predicated on the I. They occasionally go into shotgun, or run a slot formation in passing situations, but the I and the power running game has been their bread and butter for years, maybe all the way back to Art Baker.

Sounds very much like Colgate. The Furman/Colgate matchups in '08 and '10 should be awesome!

[walliver]

Nichollis runs Flexbone. Georgia Southern runs so many tyes of those formations it's Ridiculous (and I love it by da way GSU fans). Wofford does also (I think), Furman USED to

Wofford runs the "wingbone" (essentially the same as the flexbone), but the underlying strategy is more of a 4 yards and a cloud of dust offense. Unlike Georgia Southern which used to run a "big play" wide open option, the Wofford offense was designed around short but consistent gains, frequents traps and misdirections, and clock control. Unfortunately, last year the offense was simplified for a new quarterback and was fairly ineffective. Once you take away the fakes and reverses, it is fairly easy to defend against. Hopefully the full offense will be restarted this year. Wofford also runs the same basic set of plays out of the I and the Power I.

Hopefully, now the Georgia Southern has switched offenses, Wofford's offense will be more effective. Since joining the SoCOn 10 years ago, Wofford has followed Georgia Southern on almost every SoCon teams schedule.

[Go...gate]

Biddle is familiar with Colgate's employment of the Wing-T from his years with Fred Dunlap - it might be the time to dust the formation off again. It certainly worked well for us from '76 to '81. Dunlap threw it out in Calabria's second year.

[Kill'em]

Since joining the SoCOn 10 years ago, Wofford has followed Georgia Southern on almost every SoCon teams schedule.
Now that the SoCon has juggled the conference schedule around, this will no longer be an issue.

[colgate13]

Biddle is familiar with Colgate's employment of the Wing-T from his years with Fred Dunlap - it might be the time to dust the formation off again. It certainly worked well for us from '76 to '81. Dunlap threw it out in Calabria's second year.

That is good to know Go...gate! I was not aware that Dunlap (and Biddle) ever used such an offense. And I can see why they'd scrap it with a QB like Calabria around!

With Scott as the focal back, Hansen, Bennett and Watts (and who knows who else) all could be nice options to be on the field at the same time as him.

I don't expect us to use it a ton, but I think we'll see how it goes and use it from time to time.

[Go...gate]

Colgate 13, I think you have a hell of a point, because if we have three or four quick backs, we could really do some damage. Colgate was once the No. 1 offensive team in Division I running the Wing-T.

What do you think our downfield passing game will amount to? Will we have any legitimate deep threat?

[blukeys]

Colgate 13, I think you have a hell of a point, because if we have three or four quick backs, we could really do some damage. Colgate was once the No. 1 offensive team in Division I running the Wing-T.




Calling Henry White!!!xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

[Go...gate]

Right you are, Blukeys - Henry White, Pat Healy, Jimmy Comforti, Bill Schick, Angelo Colosimo, Tom Mc Chesney, Jimmy Freeman and run/pass QB's Bob Relph and John Marzo - all made the Wing-T sing. Even though we lost a few games to the Fightin' Blue Hens, we more than held our own against everybody else.

[GannonFan]

Right you are, Blukeys - Henry White, Pat Healy, Jimmy Comforti, Bill Schick, Angelo Colosimo, Tom Mc Chesney, Jimmy Freeman and run/pass QB's Bob Relph and John Marzo - all made the Wing-T sing. Even though we lost a few games to the Fightin' Blue Hens, we more than held our own against everybody else.

Just the wrong team to run the Wing-T against - kinda like Wofford in 2003 - you can't run it well against defenses that know it better than you do.

[Frosty The Snowbuff]

Everything Furman does is predicated on the I. They occasionally go into shotgun, or run a slot formation in passing situations, but the I and the power running game has been their bread and butter for years, maybe all the way back to Art Baker.


I see......my mistake.

[blukeys]

Just the wrong team to run the Wing-T against - kinda like Wofford in 2003 - you can't run it well against defenses that know it better than you do.

Such was the case in 1977. For the record White was the real deal. As is the case with so many Cape Henlopen kids, he was a great athlete. Delaware has benefitted greatly by the Cape Connection as well. Most recently a starting Linebacker and Offensive Lineman. :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod:

[Linehawg]

Jimmie Reid ran a slotback/option offense at Richmond after his scholarships were cut.

I talked with him a number of times when he was at UMass and he insisted that the option put the most pressure on the defense.

One of our friends from VMI will have to fill us in on what offense he ran this spring. Keep in mind, he may yet not have the players he wants to run his system...

What little I saw in the scrimmages says he's still tinkering with a variety of things. He only kept three of eight coaches and has only begun to find the players he wants. September will be interesting.

[I-AA Fan]

EKU, WKU, YSU, GSU, Marshall, UD all used it to some extent during years they won national championships ...spanning 1979 to 2003. Get the point?

[Kill'em]

What little I saw in the scrimmages says he's still tinkering with a variety of things. He only kept three of eight coaches and has only begun to find the players he wants. September will be interesting.
Brent Davis is going to do one hell of a job for VMI. He is a terriffic coach.

[Linehawg]

Brent Davis is going to do one hell of a job for VMI. He is a terriffic coach.

I agree and VMI is ecstatic to have him along with Ken Conatser (via Ohio St) and others. I won't rehash this here but good coaches come and go quickly at VMI because the institutional impediments to building a winning program are too deep. You have to admire their confidence in their abilities and have to believe they're smart enough to do their homework up front--not that living in the Shenandoah Valley isn't reward enough:nod:

Over eight coaches since 1965, VMI's only had five winning seasons and hasn't seen one since the 1981 season. They beat both Army and Virginia Tech that year and only lost to Virginia 13-10. Some believe VMI's monied alumni are just too comfortable with remaining "gracious losers." Until I see evidence to the contrary, I'll just have to assume something's changed and these great coaches knew what they were getting into. Remember the old Lincoln axiom "Fool me once...?"

[mikebigg]

Coach Melvin Spears has gotten great production out of the Spread Formation offense... Bruce Eugene (despite his size) was a good runner from the qb position, but was mostly a passing qb. His predecessor, Randy Hymes was an excellent rusher and posed a serious nightmare for defensive coordinators. Brandon Landers (Bruce's heir apparant if he can hold off super talented Larry Kerlegan who was a BEAST at Lamarque High/Lamarque, Tx) has the offense down pat and will step in to run the offense next year.

Spears is a master of the high octane offense and has even lectured the AFCA (American Football Coaches Association) on the topic of the spread offense. It has helped our offense put up some monster numbers...

[colgate13]

What do you think our downfield passing game will amount to? Will we have any legitimate deep threat?

Youbetcha. Kenny Parker and Erik Burke are in my biased opinion the best pair of WRs in the PL next year... along with some unproven talent returning and freshman that could break through sooner rather than later (cough... Simonds.... cough...).

The Colgate passing game will live and die by the decisions of Mike Saraceno. He's got the arm... just needs to be accurate. Even that wasn't the real issue though - it was just trying to do too much by himself and force things. He needs to know that sometimes the best decision IS to eat it.