Villanova and Boise in Big East Football, and Air Force to the Missouri Valley?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/owlsinq/Big-East-considering-12-football-schools-.html


The Boston Globe reported Sunday that Boise State has been discussed as a football-only Big East member. Meanwhile, Air Force athletic director Hans Mueh told the Denver Post Saturday, “Our interest is high in the Big East. That's fair to say. This stuff is moving fast."

The Air Force stance may be the most significant development because the Big East desperately needed one of its targets to show real interest, to show the league can remain viable. If Air Force is interested in joining for football only, moving its other sports from the Mountain West to the Missouri Valley, then Navy presumably will be more comfortable making the move. Army, another Big East football-only target, so far has expressed reluctance.

Other possible Big East targets include Central Florida and East Carolina. Even if Boise State doesn’t sign on, Air Force joining could signal the continued existence of Big East football. Big East sources have indicated that Temple has remained in discussions under all scenarios, with football-only and all sports remaining on the table. Adding these schools also could be the move Villanova needs to commit to Big East football, which has been part of these discussions in recent days, sources indicated.

This FBS realignment stuff keeps getting wackier and wackier.

[PantherRob82]

AFA to the MVC does virtually nothing for the MVCs main sport, basketball.

[Bogus Megapardus]

The BIG Conference. No need for directionals.

[heath]

Big East better do something soon and fast.Aren't they down to 6 in football after realignment?TCU was or will be the big blow

[Professor Chaos]

AFA to the MVC does virtually nothing for the MVCs main sport, basketball.
Didn't the MVC already turn Air Force down?

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7084162/big-east-consider-adding-6-football-schools


Air Force athletic director Hans Mueh called the WAC and Missouri Valley about possibly moving all of its sports except football into one of those conferences and out of the Mountain West in case it went to the Big East in football.

The WAC would take Air Force, especially with the addition of the University of Denver. The MVC isn't currently interested in expanding, but the WCC also is trying to be a player here and would listen if the Falcons wanted a home for its other sports after accepting BYU this season.

I'd be excited if the Missouri Valley was considering taking Air Force cuz it would leave them with an uneven number of teams and perhaps looking for further expansion from the MVFC/Summit teams like NDSU, SDSU, and WIU into the MVC for all sports. I was always under the impression that the Missouri Valley is stable right now though with no schools with any intentions to leave and therefore giving them no need to worry about expansion.

[UNI Pike]

MVFC football schools were squealing about having to go to North & South Dakota every year. How is going to Colorado an improvement on that situation? I understand they will not be hauling 80-100 people at a time, but the same amount of people in total between softball, golf, track, volleyball & basketball, etc. It makes absolutely no sense for MVC. Its a net negative for the MVC. Traveling Mountain <--> Eastern time zone for games - uugh.

AFA would be better served by the West Coast conference for non-football sports, if they would move.

[Pard4Life]

Hey I'm all for seeing Boise St. at the Linc and PPL Park!

[bluehenbillk]

Show me a link from anywhere in the country in outside of the Philly metro area in the last 30 days that mentions Villanova and Big East Football in the same breath.

[OL FU]

Boise in the Big East. xconfusedxI blame all this on Stony Brook joining the Big Southxnodxxchinscratchx

[Mr. C]

Show me a link from anywhere in the country in outside of the Philly metro area in the last 30 days that mentions Villanova and Big East Football in the same breath.
There is a lot going on behind the scenes that you would have ZERO clue about, regarding Villanova and the Big East. Your Blue Hen bias is really showing here. Not everything happening in the Big East is out in the press and don't discount something because of the source. Did you ever think that maybe the Philly media might actually know something you don't on this subject?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Personally, I think Nova's chances of moving to the Big East in football went up astronomically now that Wildcat FBS football seems like a prerequisite for the league's survival, rather than a simple case of it being "nice to have it".

[ngineer]

They should be thinking Patriot League, but of course, they're not thinking.

[DFW HOYA]

They should be thinking Patriot League, but of course, they're not thinking.

Nobody is thinking about it, apparently.

[alvinkayak6]

Hey, Nova, why don't you beg for an invite to the ACC? Oh...wait... xlolx

Seriously, though this whole thing is a giant mess...like the one Texas Tech frat boys left in A&M's bus. Don't kid yourselves, Lubbockites! We all know what you were trying to do! :p

[Pard4Life]

The PL going scholarship should prompt Villanova, WM, and Richmond to move in as football only members. Dropping Gtown would make a nice nine team league.

[Mikeyosef]

Yeah, that makes sense. After completing the Boise acquisition the Big EAST could next target USC and CAL...once they're in tow move on to Oregon, etc, etc, etc.xlolx

[WileECoyote06]

All of this to avoid UCF, ECU, and Memphis? lol. . . . The Big East is rumored to want six schools. I agree it's time to change the name of the conference though. How about the Big American Conference? lol The fball only schools are gonna leave anyway.

[Bogus Megapardus]

All of this geographical dyslexia probably started when NJIT joined the Great West Conference.

[Pard4Life]

Right... it's always New Jersey's fault somehow.

[tribefan40]

Show me a link from anywhere in the country in outside of the Philly metro area in the last 30 days that mentions Villanova and Big East Football in the same breath.

Nearly all of the expansion talk related to the BE I have seen on ESPN and the like has mentioned Nova moving up.

[bluehenbillk]

There is a lot going on behind the scenes that you would have ZERO clue about, regarding Villanova and the Big East. Your Blue Hen bias is really showing here. Not everything happening in the Big East is out in the press and don't discount something because of the source. Did you ever think that maybe the Philly media might actually know something you don't on this subject?

Coulson - what has changed since they were denied entry before? Where will they play?, that's still the major stumbling block. A team that can't average more than 4 digits playing in a 18,000 seat soccer stadium that can be enlarged by the end of this decade into the 20's.....

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Coulson - what has changed since they were denied entry before? Where will they play?, that's still the major stumbling block. A team that can't average more than 4 digits playing in a 18,000 seat soccer stadium that can be enlarged by the end of this decade into the 20's.....

That is so April of you. Not only has the guy who came up with that excuse moved his team to the ACC, it was always just that, an excuse. If the Big East wants football bad enough, they'll make PPL Park or Franklin Field work for them. When the survival of the conference is at stake, somehow, 20,000 or 30,000 in PPL Park seems like a lot less of an issue.

[bluehenbillk]

Desperate times may make desperate moves. I wish the best for VU, working 5-10 minutes from their campus it'd be nice to go see Boise St come to Philly (Chester) sometime if it ever happens.

Boise isn't coming though if the Big East is no longer a BCS league...

[DFW HOYA]

Boise isn't coming though if the Big East is no longer a BCS league...

It is through 2013, and let's be fair--the BCS folks really don't want to give an autobid to the MWC, C-USA, and certainly not the Belt or the WAC. If the Big East can get back to 10 or 12 they should get the bid.

[WileECoyote06]

That is so April of you. Not only has the guy who came up with that excuse moved his team to the ACC, it was always just that, an excuse. If the Big East wants football bad enough, they'll make PPL Park or Franklin Field work for them. When the survival of the conference is at stake, somehow, 20,000 or 30,000 in PPL Park seems like a lot less of an issue.

Gold Star Post!

[GannonFan]

It is through 2013, and let's be fair--the BCS folks really don't want to give an autobid to the MWC, C-USA, and certainly not the Belt or the WAC. If the Big East can get back to 10 or 12 they should get the bid.

Eh, the Big East getting an auto-bid into the BCS looks less and less likely as time goes on. Once Louisville, UConn, and West Virginia leave, the Big East will probably still remain, but there's no way they're going to keep a BCS auto-bid. They've kept it in the past partly because the basketball league was so dominant that they didn't want to piss of the basketball side of it - now that the basketball dominance is gone, the football side will matter more. I don't see an autobid going to any of those conferences, and the Big East losing their's too.

[Dane96]

And watch-- Boise will go to the Big 12. Just sayin...

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Eh, the Big East getting an auto-bid into the BCS looks less and less likely as time goes on. Once Louisville, UConn, and West Virginia leave, the Big East will probably still remain, but there's no way they're going to keep a BCS auto-bid. They've kept it in the past partly because the basketball league was so dominant that they didn't want to piss of the basketball side of it - now that the basketball dominance is gone, the football side will matter more. I don't see an autobid going to any of those conferences, and the Big East losing their's too.

xconfusedx Who won the national champ in men's basketball last year? What conference do they still play football in? I hardly think the Big East's "basketball dominance" is gone. Their football may be suffering, but their basketball is still very strong.

You seem to think that UConn, Louisville, and West Virginia are definitely out the door. Where could they possibly all go? Boston College was nakedly frank about their blocking of UConn from coming to the ACC, the SEC doesn't want to share any revenue with West Virginia, and there's no great match out there for Louisville - where, the Big Ten? SEC? Big XII?

[Mr. C]

Coulson - what has changed since they were denied entry before? Where will they play?, that's still the major stumbling block. A team that can't average more than 4 digits playing in a 18,000 seat soccer stadium that can be enlarged by the end of this decade into the 20's.....

Since we're using people's last names here, why don't you reveal yours?

What has changed, LFN pointed out, is that Pittsburgh left and West Virginia is reportedly looking at a couple of scenarios to move elsewhere. Rutgers is the only one of the three schools that will probably be left that balked at the Big East adding Villanova. Anyone who knows anything of Villanova's situation knows this is almost totally about basketball. Andy Talley told me just last month "We have to protect Villanova basketball." You are being disingenuous if you don't think that Villanova would draw more than four digits worth of fans if the Wildcats moved up to FBS. We do agree that there have always been infrastructure problems with the possibility of Villanova moving up, particularly in the area of facilities. The plan I was told of from the start of this process was that PPL Park was just one of the options available to Villanova. Villanova would likely use PPL Park for some games and could probably add at least one home game at Lincoln Financial to go with the season-opener against Temple there. Playing a game, or two after baseball season at Citizens Bank was also mentioned as a potential option. And if push came to shove, Franklin Field could also be a place where a home game was played. Villanova was actually listed as the "home" team when it played Penn last month at Franklin Field. It might not be ideal, but Villanova could patch something together while it built it program to the next level.

Are you really just a little envious that Delaware isn't looking to take the FBS plunge?

[Sycamore51]

If UofL, UConn, Rutgers and WVU leave the Big East that would kill the auto bid. If that happens I look for Cinci and USF to either just full out join C-USA again or a new conference will form with Cinci, USF, Memphis, ECU, UCF, Tulsa, Boise, Marshal, SMU, USM and maybe (La Tech, Air Force, or Navy if 12.) That would be a good mix of all sports I would think.

[bluehenbillk]

Since we're using people's last names here, why don't you reveal yours?

What has changed, LFN pointed out, is that Pittsburgh left and West Virginia is reportedly looking at a couple of scenarios to move elsewhere. Rutgers is the only one of the three schools that will probably be left that balked at the Big East adding Villanova. Anyone who knows anything of Villanova's situation knows this is almost totally about basketball. Andy Talley told me just last month "We have to protect Villanova basketball." You are being disingenuous if you don't think that Villanova would draw more than four digits worth of fans if the Wildcats moved up to FBS. We do agree that there have always been infrastructure problems with the possibility of Villanova moving up, particularly in the area of facilities. The plan I was told of from the start of this process was that PPL Park was just one of the options available to Villanova. Villanova would likely use PPL Park for some games and could probably add at least one home game at Lincoln Financial to go with the season-opener against Temple there. Playing a game, or two after baseball season at Citizens Bank was also mentioned as a potential option. And if push came to shove, Franklin Field could also be a place where a home game was played. Villanova was actually listed as the "home" team when it played Penn last month at Franklin Field. It might not be ideal, but Villanova could patch something together while it built it program to the next level.

Are you really just a little envious that Delaware isn't looking to take the FBS plunge?

Regarding Delaware - sure I'd like to see UD compete at a BCS level league. I don't think that's possible. Would I even prefer to see us play in a FBS league like VU could possibly end up in? Sure. However, I'm resigned to the fact that unless being forced to do it the current admin of UD has next to zero interest in moving out of FCS.

Unless the Linc is going to be switched to field turf there is zero shot of VU playing any home games there. The Eagles don't want Temple there but it was basically a condition of their financing deal that was worked out with the City. Keep in mind, Temple is a city school, Vilanova is not, I work squarely in between VU & the City Line. Playing a game at CBP? Sure they could probably do it, but they better have a marquee name coming in there, otherwise, how do they turn a profit on that game after paying the Phillies the rent & $$ to convert to a football setup? Regarding VU's fanbase, I think we can both agree there is a lack of one.

You may refer to me as King.

[henfan]

Are you really just a little envious that Delaware isn't looking to take the FBS plunge?

Unfortunately, "plunge" would be a very accurate description of too many schools who seek FB reclassification. Some of them end up in desparate need of a plunger.

[GannonFan]

xconfusedx Who won the national champ in men's basketball last year? What conference do they still play football in? I hardly think the Big East's "basketball dominance" is gone. Their football may be suffering, but their basketball is still very strong.

You seem to think that UConn, Louisville, and West Virginia are definitely out the door. Where could they possibly all go? Boston College was nakedly frank about their blocking of UConn from coming to the ACC, the SEC doesn't want to share any revenue with West Virginia, and there's no great match out there for Louisville - where, the Big Ten? SEC? Big XII?

Syracuse and Pitt are already gone, UConn and Louisville and West Virginia are heading for the exits, so yes, the Big East's dominance in college basketball, which I've loved for its history, is coming to an end. Sure there'll still be good programs there, but 'Cuse and Pitt were the best programs in the conference over the past decade and if UConn goes then the Big East tournament in NYC gets a huge downgrade ('Cuse and UConn being the two big draws there now). Don't let a little blip like BC complaining about UConn make you think the whole realignment is going to stop - people thought the Big 10 deciding to stay at 12 would stop the whole realignment and then just a few months later the ACC makes the big splash with another raid of the Big East. It's going to keep moving, and with every team moving it just continues the process. It may not happen all at once, but it's happening nontheless. And as the stronger leagues get bigger and bigger, they aren't going to want to share an autobid with a hollowed out Big East, which is basically comprised of mainly CUSA teams that they didn't share a BCS bid with before.

As for nova, I'm almost certain they will move up to FBS. But they won't have the Linc (except when they play Temple) and it won't be a BCS conference they move into. And without the Linc, they won't get the big payday of any name teams coming in to play them - Penn State and Notre Dame and the likes don't play in venues as small as PPL or even Citizens Bank if they don't have to.

[walliver]

To me it's only a better of time before the new super-conferences begin splitting up because they are too large.

The SoCon split from the Southern Intercollegiate Athletic Association's (SIAA) in 1921 because the SIAA had 30 members and "The decision to form a new athletic conference was motivated by the desire to have a workable number of conference games for each league member. With 30 schools in the SIAA by the early 1920s, it was impossible to play every school at least once during the regular season and many schools went several years between playing some conference members" By the 1930's the conference was up to 23 members and had the same problems and the SEC split off. TV wasn't a factor at that time, but I suspect history will repeat itself in the next 10 years.


source: http://www.soconsports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4000&ATCLID=177772

[Seawolf97]

Boise in the Big East. xconfusedxI blame all this on Stony Brook joining the Big Southxnodxxchinscratchx

Rumor has it we are waiting for invite from the PAC 10, 11, 12 ,20 ? Swimming only -LOL

[BlueHenSinfonian]

What are the rules for a BCS auto-bid? I hear a lot of people saying that the Big East would lose theirs, but what is the reasoning behind it? Is there a BCS panel that decides who gets an auto-bid, or is there a set procedure and rules that define it?

[superman7515]

Big East Unlikely To Lose BCS Bid (http://outkickthecoverage.com/big-east-unlikely-to-lose-bcs-bid.php)


If the BCS acted to strip the Big East's automatic bid this would be the first retraction of an automatic bid in BCS history.

I hinted at this in Friday's column, but the BCS stripping the Big East's automatic bid is highly unlikely. Why? There are for two primary reasons that I'll unpack in the coming column: 1. the Big East would have a whopping insider lawsuit against the BCS that could spell antitrust doom for the cartel and 2. Boston College's athletic director told the Boston Globe that ESPN encouraged it to take Pittsburgh and Syracuse from the Big East.

The end result is that the Big East, even in its weakened state, isn't likely to lose its BCS bid. If the league isn't likely to lose its BCS bid then that's a powerful incentive it can dangle to other schools, in non-BCS leagues, to bring them on board as new members. Effectively, then, the BCS bid is a Big East safety net, the net that keeps the conference from plunging into national irrelevance.

How do we know this?

First, the BCS does not spell out criteria for leagues to be stripped of an automatic bid.

That's one of the biggest criticisms that non-BCS leagues have laid out against the BCS's existence -- that it's an impermissible anti-trust violation because it's an arbitrary agreement between six members to exclude everyone else. How, the non-BCS schools squeal, can there be automatic bids given out when there is no criteria to define why the six conferences were initially included?

Indeed, the only requirement for a BCS bid is that a league have at least eight members. (That's an FBS rule, by the way, not a BCS rule. A league also has two years to rectify any slippage in that regard). Right now the Big East is guaranteed eight members through the 2013 season since the league has said it will not allow Pitt or Syracuse to join the ACC until 2014. So there's no way that automatic bid is going anywhere for the 2012 and 2013 seasons. What's the criteria for your conference to be included in the BCS if you aren't already receiving an automatic bid? It's complicated and virtually impossible for a new conference to reach:

[bluehenbillk]

I believe there still is anti-trust lawsuits by the Utah AG against the BCS. I don't know how the BCS could possibly win it.

If Boise satys in the MWC, how does the Big East warrant a BCS bid & the MWC doesn't? Does anyone not think Boise would win the Big East 3 or 4 out of every 5 years?

[Dane96]

Big East Unlikely To Lose BCS Bid (http://outkickthecoverage.com/big-east-unlikely-to-lose-bcs-bid.php)

Sounds like what I have been arguing for months, and frankly is the same argument the NEC fans used YEARS ago when we were denied an auto-bid.

It's real, it's legit...and it's powerful (anti-trust claims). As for insider trading, not sure how that one would work...in fact, it wouldn't. Now tortious interference of contract is a whole other story, and likely what the author meant without knowing they meant it.

[Dane96]

I believe there still is anti-trust lawsuits by the Utah AG against the BCS. I don't know how the BCS could possibly win it.

If Boise satys in the MWC, how does the Big East warrant a BCS bid & the MWC doesn't? Does anyone not think Boise would win the Big East 3 or 4 out of every 5 years?

I am pretty sure they rescinded it with the +1 concept (the ability for the non-BCS school to get in with certain factors being met), though I could be wrong.

[dgtw]

I think its funny the Big East is saying they get to stay in the BCS even though they suck in football when they kicked out Temple because they sucked in nfootball.

[cougarpines]

Don't get it. VU has an endowment of approx. $325 million, minimal fan support, sub-standard BB facilities, no FB facilities, land locked by the city of Radnor and already losing $2 - $4 million on FB. How can they afford the lossses and start-up cost to move to FBS. Seems dropping FB would be a better option.

[bluehenbillk]

I am pretty sure they rescinded it with the +1 concept (the ability for the non-BCS school to get in with certain factors being met), though I could be wrong.

No this was in the last 12 months, the +1 has been around longer than that.

[bluehenbillk]

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/football/2011-04-20-bcs-anti-trust-lawsuit_N.htm

Yea - it was this past spring - 2011