What Happened to Football in California

[Stang Fever]

I was having this discussion today with a friend of mine...and i was so upset that there are no more California teams. For most teams scheduling is not that big of a deal cause there are so many teams to choose from...but for Davis and Poly its a whole new ball game its almost kill or be killed....Sac St doesnt count cause they are in the Big Sky with 10 teams to play....

If the Dakota schools left the GWFC Davis and Poly would be in a world of hurt....Because there would be nobody to play...10 games seasons would be the norm with at least two of those games being I-A teams

[RadMann]

California has become in my opinion more like latin america in its outlook/culture. Soccer is the sport of such a culture, not "American football".

As an aside, I thought it was interesting how the initial "immigration rights" marches recently out in California were packed with Mexican flags and people carrying American flags at the rallies were verbally abused. It wasn't until the immigrant rights organizations started oranizing the rallies and they strongly suggested the marchers carry the american flag to appear to be more "American". As everyone knows the whole illegal immigration issue is huge right now as well.

[Stang Fever]

I dont even want to dive in the immigration thing......cause i will piss some people off......cause my views are not with the marchers......I will say this....ANY country has the RIGHT to say who and how someone enters there contry plain and simple

[blukeys]

I dont even want to dive in the immigration thing......cause i will piss some people off......cause my views are not with the marchers......I will say this....ANY country has the RIGHT to say who and how someone enters there contry plain and simple

Sounds reasonable to me. :)

[Stang Fever]

Reason doesnt work in Politics

[RadMann]

Agreed. I have nothing against hard working people but let me put it this way. If I, as an american citizen used a false Social Security number to work I would be thrown in jail in a minute. How these employers get away with employing these people is beyond me. The employers should be thrown in jail. That would solve the problem.

That being said, I was serious about the football comment. I think it has a lot to do with culture. Maybe not entirely the latin thing though. California has the image of a laid back, not so crazy about sports culture. I'm not really sure though since I'm from the east coast. New England is also somewhat indifferent about football but for different reasons I think.

[Stang Fever]

I would say that you are true......California is a little different when it comes to sports......People in Southern Cali are high on USC but i remember in the 90's when you couldnt even see a USC Jersey if you walked down the street......we only care about the now and people dont rally around a team through the ups and the downs....Teams out here are fighting for there life.....For people out here...there is more to do then go to a game

[blukeys]

I would say that you are true......California is a little different when it comes to sports......People in Southern Cali are high on USC but i remember in the 90's when you couldnt even see a USC Jersey if you walked down the street......we only care about the now and people dont rally around a team through the ups and the downs....Teams out here are fighting for there life.....For people out here...there is more to do then go to a game


There's more to do everywhere you go. It is a matter of priorities. I live within a 2 hour drive of Wash D.C., Balt. MD., and Philly. There are a lot of things going on in Sept. and Oct. in Ocean City Md. (70 minute drive for me)

I have heard on this board that attendance was low for a Umass - UD game in Amherst because it was at the heighth of "leaf watching season".
Last year's attendance was down at the Maine - UD game in Orono due to it being the opening day for Moose Hunting season. I'm sure one can come up with some really interesting reasons in No. CA as well. In the end it is really a matter of priorities and this relates to the intensity of feeling and/or interest of the fans. There is no amount of leaf watching or Moose Hunting that will keep Hen fans from a game.

In terms of population California is actually underrepresented in Football. California's population is higher than Texas or Florida who have more football teams than CA.

[RabidRabbit]

'Stang & Aggies - We know that you'll be in a world of pain for football if the Dakotas roll to a different conference. I love what we have on the football field, but we are looking for an all sports conference. See the Great West all sports thread. If we and NDSU get into the Mid-Con that's great for the GWFC. We would then need to pick up an additional football school, preferrably 2 schools.

There are effectively 3 conferences west of the MS River, SLC, GWFC, and BSC. # of schools is 8, 5, 9 for 22 schollie playing schools. If that 22 gets split 8, 7, 7 there are three great conferences, each with auto-bid, and if split right between Big Sky and Great West, could have all sports for those conferences.

The two Cals, and possibly SUU need to help the Dakotas have a home conference, that supports both groups goals. It's a bad situation that UNC left for the Big Sky, because generally speaking they made the Great West work, and they too could be good Mid-Con material. But they are Big Sky, and don't see them reverting. Would be nice if Sac St would Big West/ GWFC, but that won't happen.

[DFW HOYA]

California's football problem is not immigration. Actually, it's two things.

For state universities, the impact of the CAL-NOW decision forced a lot of the Cal State schools to drop football as a matter of Title IX expediency. Programs at Cal-State schools in Los Angeles (CS-LA, not UCLA), Long Beach, Fullerton, Santa Barbara, San Francisco and Chico have all disappeared.

For private schools, administrators have tacitly disapproved of football and think that it's politically correct to do away with it. Pacific, Santa Clara, USF, St. Mary's and Pepperdine are the best examples. The fallback, of course, is now that these schools are WAY out of line on gender with 60-65% female populations--without football, the men are going elsewhere.

I'm sure there's also some political bias on the sport, but that's not the real reason either.

[mainejeff]

There's more to do everywhere you go. It is a matter of priorities. I live within a 2 hour drive of Wash D.C., Balt. MD., and Philly. There are a lot of things going on in Sept. and Oct. in Ocean City Md. (70 minute drive for me)

I have heard on this board that attendance was low for a Umass - UD game in Amherst because it was at the heighth of "leaf watching season".
Last year's attendance was down at the Maine - UD game in Orono due to it being the opening day for Moose Hunting season. I'm sure one can come up with some really interesting reasons in No. CA as well. In the end it is really a matter of priorities and this relates to the intensity of feeling and/or interest of the fans. There is no amount of leaf watching or Moose Hunting that will keep Hen fans from a game.

In terms of population California is actually underrepresented in Football. California's population is higher than Texas or Florida who have more football teams than CA.

Moose hunting season? Come on.....:rolleyes: Something like 500 people statewide enter a lottery for Moose hunting permits. I'm sure that Moose hunters took a few hours off if they were lucky enough to be picked for a Moose hunting permit.

Attendance stunk because both Maine and Delaware had sucky teams.......and the game (as usual) was on local television.

[blukeys]

Moose hunting season? Come on.....:rolleyes: Something like 500 people statewide enter a lottery for Moose hunting permits. I'm sure that Moose hunters took a few hours off if they were lucky enough to be picked for a Moose hunting permit.

Attendance stunk because both Maine and Delaware had sucky teams.......and the game (as usual) was on local television.


Sorry MJ I am only reporting what the television commentators said during the 2005 game. That was the reason the MAINE COMMENTATORS gave for poor attendance. Personally, I thought it was a riot and was rolling on the floor laughing but that is WHAT WAS SAID.

For the record I LOVED the whole folksy commentary. The commentators knew a lot about the Delaware - Maine connections and they were more than fair. I wish I had saved it as I had it on tape but UD blowing it at the end I needed to see only once. :nod: :nod:

[mainejeff]

Sorry MJ I am only reporting what the television commentators said during the 2005 game. That was the reason the MAINE COMMENTATORS gave for poor attendance. Personally, I thought it was a riot and was rolling on the floor laughing but that is WHAT WAS SAID.

For the record I LOVED the whole folksy commentary. The commentators knew a lot about the Delaware - Maine connections and they were more than fair. I wish I had saved it as I had it on tape but UD blowing it at the end I needed to see only once. :nod: :nod:

Mainers also have quite a sense of humor that flatlanders take a bit too seriously sometimes.......;).

[blukeys]

Mainers also have quite a sense of humor that flatlanders take a bit too seriously sometimes.......;).


Other than the end of the game, I loved the whole show. And yes, considering the quality of the 2005 Maine - UD teams I totally understand why folks didn't come out for the game!!!!!:nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod:

God help the MOOSE!!!!!!!!!xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

[mainejeff]

Other than the end of the game, I loved the whole show. And yes, considering the quality of the 2005 Maine - UD teams I totally understand why folks didn't come out for the game!!!!!:nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod:

God help the MOOSE!!!!!!!!!xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

Moose hunting isn't a sport like deer, rabbit, bird........once you find them it's like shooting a cow.:(

[blukeys]

Moose hunting isn't a sport like deer, rabbit, bird........once you find them it's like shooting a cow.:(


That explains why only 500 permits are allowed. Sounds like Buffalo Bill shooting Buffalo for the Railroads.

[ucdtim17]

Yeah it's a complicated issue but all due respect, I don't think it has anything to do with immigration

[Green Cookie Monster]

The state of Kalifornia historically subsidized about 95% of the educational costs to anybody who gained acceptance to a CSU or UC. Fees charged to students each semester were not even called tuition. Even with recent 'tuition' increases the price for a semester of education at a CSU or UC is the higher education bargain in the nation.

As state budgets have tightened over the years regents of both systems have mandated that no state money be used for intercollegiate athletics. That left local fundraising and the students paying a fee to be used to keep athletics afloat. That is why almost every campus, especially the CSU's, have crappy facilities and funding.

I think any CSU or UC football program that survived the draconian budget cuts two years ago are here for the long haul.

There are like 6 CSU's and 4 UC's located in the LAX area. Laid back lifestyle, UCLA, USC, spectator sport for any game ever imagined drained fan interest. Fullerton, Long Beach, Northridge, Riverside, Santa Barbara, Chico and private UOP, Santa Clara, St. Mary's dropped football as a result.

Crappy facilities, lackluster administrative funding and support and to a small knee jerk reaction Title 9.

If only UOP, Fullerton and Long Beach reinstated I-AA ball we would have a nice solid foundation to add Poly, Davis and possibly Sac State.

I don't see any of the above happening.

[JMU Duke Dog]

The state of Kalifornia historically subsidized about 95% of the educational costs to anybody who gained acceptance to a CSU or UC. Fees charged to students each semester were not even called tuition. Even with recent 'tuition' increases the price for a semester of education at a CSU or UC is the higher education bargain in the nation.

As state budgets have tightened over the years regents of both systems have mandated that no state money be used for intercollegiate athletics. That left local fundraising and the students paying a fee to be used to keep athletics afloat. That is why almost every campus, especially the CSU's, have crappy facilities and funding.

I think any CSU or UC football program that survived the draconian budget cuts two years ago are here for the long haul.

There are like 6 CSU's and 4 UC's located in the LAX area. Laid back lifestyle, UCLA, USC, spectator sport for any game ever imagined drained fan interest. Fullerton, Long Beach, Northridge, Riverside, Santa Barbara, Chico and private UOP, Santa Clara, St. Mary's dropped football as a result.

Crappy facilities, lackluster administrative funding and support and to a small knee jerk reaction Title 9.

If only UOP, Fullerton and Long Beach reinstated I-AA ball we would have a nice solid foundation to add Poly, Davis and possibly Sac State.

I don't see any of the above happening.

I wish Long Beach State had I-AA football too actually. Did they field a team at one time in their history? I am interning right next to the CSULB campus this summer.

[blukeys]

Crappy facilities, lackluster administrative funding and support and to a small knee jerk reaction Title 9.

If only UOP, Fullerton and Long Beach reinstated I-AA ball we would have a nice solid foundation to add Poly, Davis and possibly Sac State.

I don't see any of the above happening.



Not such a huge knee jerk reaction depending on the composition of a particular school. If a school is 60-40 female then a I-AA fully funded football team would require an additional 76 scollys for female sports if football is added. Unless they are competitive in baskeball or volleyball most CA. schools will skip it.

[Green Cookie Monster]

Not such a huge knee jerk reaction depending on the composition of a particular school.

I didn't see a ton of other programs in other states start dropping football because of Title 9, only in California. That is what I meant by knee jerk reaction, the Cali presidents cut too deep and penalized football instead of adding womens crew, soccer, tennis, etc. to make up the difference.

LB, Fullerton, Northridge, etc. have water polo, mens volleyball, lacrosse, swimming etc. why not dump these non-spectator sports and add football?

[UAalum72]

I wish Long Beach State had I-AA football too actually. Did they field a team at one time in their history? I am interning right next to the CSULB campus this summer.
The Beach dropped football about 1992.

[blukeys]

I didn't see a ton of other programs in other states start dropping football because of Title 9, only in California. That is what I meant by knee jerk reaction, the Cali presidents cut too deep and penalized football instead of adding womens crew, soccer, tennis, etc. to make up the difference.

LB, Fullerton, Northridge, etc. have water polo, mens volleyball, lacrosse, swimming etc. why not dump these non-spectator sports and add football?


Obviously, if the College Presidents are already inclined to not support football then any excuse to drop the sport will do. Title IX can be convenient because it is something out of the College Presidents control and they can blame someone else. There is still quite a bit of hostility to football in academia.

[colgate13]

Not such a huge knee jerk reaction depending on the composition of a particular school. If a school is 60-40 female then a I-AA fully funded football team would require an additional 76 scollys for female sports if football is added. Unless they are competitive in baskeball or volleyball most CA. schools will skip it.

Well, not exactly. First, it's 63 I-AA scholarships. But more importantly, the question is where are they now? If the school is 60-40 women to men and they are 60-40 in athletic funding too, then adding the 85 or so guys that come with football and the 63 scholarships doesn't mean a straight 63 for women too. More men means that more money should be spent on men's sports as well. Sure it's disproportionate, but it's not 1 for 1.

It really depends on the situation. But yes, blaming Title IX is convenient. Women's lacrosse is a growing sport and could take about 15 of those offsetting scholarships.

[OrneryAggie]

Women's crew at UCD is probably the most overfunded program on campus and provides the biggest balance to football. Women's track also boasts a big roster. That's one of the big reasons I'm proud of our university. When other schools took the easy route and dropped wrestling/football/etc UCD has expanded. (4 new sports added in the past decade with talk of more growth to come)

Somebody correct me if i'm wrong but this is what i think happened. The decline of football was twofold. There was the change in NCAA policy that forced nonscholarship programs like UCSB and Santa Clara to stop playing football at the DIII level. Both decided to drop it altogether. Second, Long Beach and Fullerton both dropped from IA early in the 90's from lack of success, funding, and title IX issues. That lead to the eventual breakup of the Big West and rise of the supersizedWAC. Once the precedent was set it led to a domino effect among other CSU's and UOP.

[Green Cookie Monster]

Women's crew at UCD is probably the most overfunded program on campus and provides the biggest balance to football. Women's track also boasts a big roster. That's one of the big reasons I'm proud of our university. When other schools took the easy route and dropped wrestling/football/etc UCD has expanded. (4 new sports added in the past decade with talk of more growth to come)

Somebody correct me if i'm wrong but this is what i think happened. The decline of football was twofold. There was the change in NCAA policy that forced nonscholarship programs like UCSB and Santa Clara to stop playing football at the DIII level. Both decided to drop it altogether. Second, Long Beach and Fullerton both dropped from IA early in the 90's from lack of success, funding, and title IX issues. That lead to the eventual breakup of the Big West and rise of the supersizedWAC. Once the precedent was set it led to a domino effect among other CSU's and UOP.

Yes, adding women's crew and soccer helped Sac State comply also. Coincindently, crew/rowing at Sac State have the best facility, some say best in the country, and regularly win championships. Davis and Sac State both offer many more sports than other I-AA's or I-A's. Davis has 27 sports (?) and Sac has 20 all fully funded. Most of the Big Sky teams only field the minimum NCAA requirement of 14 and some 16.