IUP President on Div I Jump

[TexasTerror]

During the news conference in which IUP announced the hiring of their basketball coach, the IUP president Tony Atwater provided a few more comments regarding his school's thoughts on moving up to Div I athletics, including what is now known as I-AA football.

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The Indians play an NCAA Division II schedule, but school president Tony Atwater confirmed the program is studying the benefits of moving up to Division I. The football program also is studying a move to Division I-AA.

"Division I is something I've decided to not take off the table," Atwater said. "If you don't have dreams, you can't accomplish great things."

Atwater said the basketball program won't move next season but could make the transition in a couple of years.

"It's still on the table at this point," he said. "We are exploring interest."

Atwater said Lombardi "will have no problem filling those shoes," if the new job leads him back to Division I.

Lombardi said his decision didn't hinge on the Division I opportunity.

"But I don't see any reasons why we can't be successful as a Division I team," he said.

http://pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/sports/college/s_445490.html

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The problem with IUP remains: Where would they play? I think they would want to play full-scholly, which eliminates the MAAC and NEC. They don't fit the Patriot League philosiphy, and the CAA promises for massive road trips. That leaves the PSAC jumping up as a conference (which won't happen), or *maybe* the Gateway, or a new Yankee Conference - and then, where would they play basketball?

Would operating as an independent work? Maybe, but the basketball question would still arise. To me, these will remain just that: dreams.

[greenG]

The problem with IUP remains: Where would they play? I think they would want to play full-scholly, which eliminates the MAAC and NEC. They don't fit the Patriot League philosiphy, and the CAA promises for massive road trips. That leaves the PSAC jumping up as a conference (which won't happen), or *maybe* the Gateway, or a new Yankee Conference - and then, where would they play basketball?

Would operating as an independent work? Maybe, but the basketball question would still arise. To me, these will remain just that: dreams.

I doesn't help them for football, but the Mid-Con is so scattered (Michigan to Louisiana to Utah) that a team in western PA would fit right in. Also, they've just lost a member, Chicago State.

[nlwwln]

IUPs size (14,000), academic requirements and regional proximity would make them an ideal fit for the gateway. although i dont think the move would take place for another 3-4 years I do think that IUP would be very succesful moving to 1aa. mainly becuase there are currently no scholarship 1aa programs in western PA only duquesne and robert morris who are both mid major, not to mention the abundance of high school talent that western PA produces year after year. I would bet that after a year of recruting on the 1aa level IUP would be better than half the teams in the gateway and eventually become a mainstay in the top 25. The success they have seen at the division 2 level would increase two fold if they made the jump. my advice to them the sooner the better!

[dbackjon]

Also, they've just lost a member, Chicago State.

Where are they going?

[UAalum72]

Where are they going?
Nowhere. Chicago State will be an independent next year. Not sure if they jumped or got pushed.
http://www.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/stories/042006aaa.html

[TexasTerror]

Nowhere. Chicago State will be an independent next year. Not sure if they jumped or got pushed.
http://www.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/stories/042006aaa.html

Got pushed and then decided to take the plunge...

Chicago St was an odd ball member of the conference. An HBCU with a very low budget and limited success. MidCon is trying to fix things up and with Chicago St out, has room for two instead of just one...

[RabidRabbit]

:rotateh: IF the IN of PA move up, as a transitional, I doubt seriously until transition is done that Gateway would add. The two Dakotas are stronger, further along in transition, and the gateway has made no overtures to add Jacks/Bison. This is the nearby upper mid-west conference, that even includes ex-NCC member UNI.

There is the newly formed United Alliance for basketball for transitionals, that would welcome a new transitional. In football, the Big South and GWFC have 5 members and would probably love to add a strong school, such as IN of PA, or UND qualities (especially AFTER TRANSITION). Ohio Valley? any interest in somebody from the OHIO VALLEY?

[colgate13]

I say this every so often when these things come out, but I'll say it again. Division II is becoming obsolete and might someday just go away. I think we'll continue to see more of this, as there are rivalries and traditions (and conferences) that once one team does it, so does another... UND and USD are next, right? That, and basketball money, will fuel this continued exodus.

[blukeys]

:rotateh: IF the IN of PA move up, as a transitional, I doubt seriously until transition is done that Gateway would add. The two Dakotas are stronger, further along in transition, and the gateway has made no overtures to add Jacks/Bison. This is the nearby upper mid-west conference, that even includes ex-NCC member UNI.

There is the newly formed United Alliance for basketball for transitionals, that would welcome a new transitional. In football, the Big South and GWFC have 5 members and would probably love to add a strong school, such as IN of PA, or UND qualities (especially AFTER TRANSITION). Ohio Valley? any interest in somebody from the OHIO VALLEY?


Agreed, YSU is not pleased with the Gateway travel requirements and IUP would have the same problems but worse.

On the plus side Albany, SBU and probably CCSU are going to be in limbo for a few years and the much rumored AE East is not out of the realm of possibility.

It also appears that these types of moves inspire other schools to look at their options. Instead of looking at IUP's limitations one should look at how this might impact Duquesne's and RMU's decision making. Only one of these schools changing their football approach could shift things big time in Western Pa./ Eastern Ohio.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Agreed, YSU is not pleased with the Gateway travel requirements and IUP would have the same problems but worse.

On the plus side Albany, SBU and probably CCSU are going to be in limbo for a few years and the much rumored AE East is not out of the realm of possibility.

It also appears that these types of moves inspire other schools to look at their options. Instead of looking at IUP's limitations one should look at how this might impact Duquesne's and RMU's decision making. Only one of these schools changing their football approach could shift things big time in Western Pa./ Eastern Ohio.

One option - that bitterly divides PL fans - is having Duquesne join the PL as an associate member in football. That would qualify as an upgrade in football for them, and also features a chance to develop a rivalry with Bucknell in the center of the state, and to a lesser extent G'Town.

As for St Francis (PA) (may as well put them in there too) and RMU, these guys seem completely content with who they are - there seems to be *no* interest in scheduling up or moving up in my mind. If they were to make a ramp up, the Patriot would be the logical choice for both competition-wise - since they are both small-to-midsized private schools - in all sports. But are they good fits academically?

You also have to think of what would happen to the MAAC and NEC if any of these three were to leave. The MAAC would fold if Duquesne left, period. The NEC already is losing Stony Book, and very likely Albany soon too. If RMU or St Francis were to (unlikely as it sounds) leave to join the PL in all sports, it could break the NEC apart completely, with some maybe joining the Patriot and the others - probably- joining the America East.

It is worth noting that IUP's decision does nothing to sway any of these conferences one way or another. They would upgrade to I-AA, probably as an independent for at least a while, and hope a good opportunity presents itself. While they do that, they have ZERO chance to make the NCAA Men's B-Ball tournament as an independent, so - what's the real sense of them upgrading? They had better have some agreement with the (ech) Mid-Con, and brace themselves with road games to Southern Utah and Oral Roberts.

Basically, there's not a lot of good options for IUP, RMU, Duquesne or St. Francis (PA) right now. That's probably why nothing will happen one way or another. They can continue to weigh their bad options, but it's hard to come to any conclusion except the status quo.

[blukeys]

One option - that bitterly divides PL fans - is having Duquesne join the PL as an associate member in football. That would qualify as an upgrade in football for them, and also features a chance to develop a rivalry with Bucknell in the center of the state, and to a lesser extent G'Town.

As for St Francis (PA) (may as well put them in there too) and RMU, these guys seem completely content with who they are - there seems to be *no* interest in scheduling up or moving up in my mind. If they were to make a ramp up, the Patriot would be the logical choice for both competition-wise - since they are both small-to-midsized private schools - in all sports. But are they good fits academically?

You also have to think of what would happen to the MAAC and NEC if any of these three were to leave. The MAAC would fold if Duquesne left, period. The NEC already is losing Stony Book, and very likely Albany soon too. If RMU or St Francis were to (unlikely as it sounds) leave to join the PL in all sports, it could break the NEC apart completely, with some maybe joining the Patriot and the others - probably- joining the America East.

It is worth noting that IUP's decision does nothing to sway any of these conferences one way or another. They would upgrade to I-AA, probably as an independent for at least a while, and hope a good opportunity presents itself. While they do that, they have ZERO chance to make the NCAA Men's B-Ball tournament as an independent, so - what's the real sense of them upgrading? They had better have some agreement with the (ech) Mid-Con, and brace themselves with road games to Southern Utah and Oral Roberts.

Basically, there's not a lot of good options for IUP, RMU, Duquesne or St. Francis (PA) right now. That's probably why nothing will happen one way or another. They can continue to weigh their bad options, but it's hard to come to any conclusion except the status quo.

IUP does not have good conference options but in the I-AA world of 7 wins for the playoffs their options as an OOC get better. IUP can pick off PL, A-10, and Gateway teams as opponents and actually get a competitve schedule. This requires an imaginitive and hard working AD. I know who not to recommend for the job. BUT, If they were to schedule 3 Gateway teams, 2 OVC teams, 4 A-10/CAA teams and 3 PL teams then they have an 11 game schedule. Their location allows for all of this.

This does not include Albany, SBU, CCSU and Monmouth who also will be looking for some games.

I don't see IUP's situation as hopeless. Keep in mind the move is a few years off. What is interesting is what will this do to the larger PA. state supported schools? Once this move is made, what will the bigger PA. State schools do? WCUPA is acually better suited geographically for a move to I-AA.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I don't see IUP's situation as hopeless. Keep in mind the move is a few years off. What is interesting is what will this do to the larger PA. state supported schools? Once this move is made, what will the bigger PA. State schools do? WCUPA is acually better suited geographically for a move to I-AA.

West Chester also has the same basketball and football issues as IUP. Where do they play basketball? Do they play in the Gateway, CAA, or go independent? Like IUP, there's no slam-dunk answer, though I agree they have better options since the CAA - geographically anyway - could take them on. But to me, these are pretty daunting obstacles. Don't underestimate the power of basketball in all of this. Teams could live as I-AA independents in football, but try that in basketball and you're just asking for trouble.

[RabidRabbit]

West Chester also has the same basketball and football issues as IUP. Where do they play basketball? Do they play in the Gateway, CAA, or go independent? Like IUP, there's no slam-dunk answer, though I agree they have better options since the CAA - geographically anyway - could take them on. But to me, these are pretty daunting obstacles. Don't underestimate the power of basketball in all of this. Teams could live as I-AA independents in football, but try that in basketball and you're just asking for trouble.

There is the newly formed United Alliance for basketball for transitionals, that would welcome a new transitional. I believe that this can readily be made an on-going scheduling alliance that adds and subtracts transitionals as they come up from lower ranks, and join up with existing conferences.

[colgate13]

LFN -

I think you're way too loose with who could play in the PL. St. Francis, RMU? No way. Duquense as an associate? Only if something happened like Fordham leaving. We would have to have a big reason to take them on.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

LFN -

I think you're way too loose with who could play in the PL. St. Francis, RMU? No way. Duquense as an associate? Only if something happened like Fordham leaving. We would have to have a big reason to take them on.

13, I 100% agree they are not good fits, not even Duquesne. It says something that the PL is the best fit for them should they want to leave. As bad as the PL fit is, a Gateway or CAA fit would be worse.

You're kind of making my point in saying that there aren't really good options for any of them.

[colgate13]

You're kind of making my point in saying that there aren't really good options for any of them.

OK, now we agree. :)

I think you'll see several schools in limbo land as independents before either banding together somehow or seeing former D II conferences reform at the Division I level.

[aceinthehole]

I agree that I-AA Independent in football is possible, but in basketball it is very stupid.

Hypothetically - If the AE wanted to sponsor football (Maine, UNH, UA, and SBU) and added Umass and URI as FB-only affiliates, you have 6 teams. The AE all-sport membership is still just 9 teams (assuming BU doesn't leave for the A-10), so they could invite CCSU and Monmouth as all-sports members on the condition they upgrade to fully schollys. Now you have 6 full-membership FB teams and 2 affiliates, and 11 basketball teams.

The NEC would lose 2 teams, but could replace them with IUP (w/ FB) and the transitional NJIT (w/o FB). NEC football would now have 7 teams, but could easily absorb some MAAC teams as FB-only members.

I really think IUP and NJIT will replace any members who leave the NEC, such as CCSU or Monmouth.

[dbackjon]

Nowhere. Chicago State will be an independent next year. Not sure if they jumped or got pushed.
http://www.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/stories/042006aaa.html

thanks! (and thanks to TT as well). I wonder if they will end up like Northeastern Illinois, and abandon sports all together? Without a conference, they have no NCAA chances.

The article states "Chicago State president Elnora Daniel said in a statement that the university will seek membership in a new conference that reflects its evolving institutional profile, which includes expansion and enhanced "access to other metropolitan communities."

The only other conference that fits that profile is the Horizon League, with 2 other Chicago teams (Loyola, UIC), and teams in Milwaukee, Detroit, Cleveland and Indianapolis.

[greenG]

thanks! (and thanks to TT as well). I wonder if they will end up like Northeastern Illinois, and abandon sports all together? Without a conference, they have no NCAA chances.

The article states "Chicago State president Elnora Daniel said in a statement that the university will seek membership in a new conference that reflects its evolving institutional profile, which includes expansion and enhanced "access to other metropolitan communities."

The only other conference that fits that profile is the Horizon League, with 2 other Chicago teams (Loyola, UIC), and teams in Milwaukee, Detroit, Cleveland and Indianapolis.

The problem with moving to the Horizon is that the HL is a much more competitive conference than the Mid-Con. If, as rumored, Chicago State was pushed out of the Mid-Con, I don't see another D-I conference jumping to add them. I think CSU will leave D-I and join the Great Lakes Valley Conference in D-II.

[dbackjon]

The problem with moving to the Horizon is that the HL is a much more competitive conference than the Mid-Con. If, as rumored, Chicago State was pushed out of the Mid-Con, I don't see another D-I conference jumping to add them. I think CSU will leave D-I and join the Great Lakes Valley Conference in D-II.

That probably makes more sense for them. GLVC is at 14 members now - but SIU-E is rumored to be going D-I.

[bluehenbillk]

The CAA could take in IUP & get rid of a team that doesn't fit like URI or Maine.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The CAA could take in IUP & get rid of a team that doesn't fit like URI or Maine.

What if they're interested in going in as an all-sports member of the CAA? I don't think you'd get an associate CAA membership and a D-I basketball independent - that would make no sense for IUP.

[Dane96]

I think he was kidding. I would find it hard to believe a fully funded SBU or Albany would be passed over for IUP if, and that is a big IF, the CAA expanded in either football or all sports. UNH, as well, for all sports.

[ISUMatt]

Where are they going?

While leaving saying they want to compete, CHicago St MAY face a school wide death penalty due to major infractions by most sports!!!

[TxSt02]

While leaving saying they want to compete, CHicago St MAY face a school wide death penalty due to major infractions by most sports!!!

why does this always happen to hbcus???

[blukeys]

The CAA could take in IUP & get rid of a team that doesn't fit like URI or Maine.


I'm in favor of IUP and dumping Drexel, VCU, or UNC-Wilm. (Or all of the above!!!!!!!)

How can we divorce the Basketball Only schools, In favor of UNH or Maine?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I'm in favor of IUP and dumping Drexel, VCU, or UNC-Wilm. (Or all of the above!!!!!!!)

How can we divorce the Basketball Only schools, In favor of UNH or Maine?

Yeah, get rid of those no-football b***stards, Geroge Mason too! :rolleyes:

Let's get real. This won't happen. GMU's success will keep the non-FB teams in the CAA for probably a decade, if not longer. This success will be pointed-to for years, if not decades.

[Mr. C]

After the debacle of SMU, the NCAA has pretty much made it known that they are not going to be giving anyone the death penalty. Also, is Chicago State a repeat violater? That is one of the basic things that has to happen for a school to be considered for the death penalty. I doubt CSU's troubles were any worse that Florida A&M's and definitely not in the same league as Alabama's.

[nlwwln]

I went and saw IUPs spring practice yesterday and I have to say that I wasnt as impressed as I thought I would be, they have a few decent starters but overall the team looked pretty thin, not as much talent as I thought there would be but maybe my expectations were a little to high. I may have to retract some of my statements from earlier, IUP sure would have a long way to go before they would be up to snuff with the big boys of 1aa... a long way. They did have some decent looking DBs otherwise they didnt resemble anything more than a mediocre d2 football team...but none the less that is what they are. I would put my money on any mid major against IUP but I still think if they were to move to 1aa schollie they would bring in plenty of talent and be able to compete within a few years but this is all hear say. The biggest difference between d2 ball and 1aa is depth.

[blukeys]

I went and saw IUPs spring practice yesterday and I have to say that I wasnt as impressed as I thought I would be, they have a few decent starters but overall the team looked pretty thin, not as much talent as I thought there would be but maybe my expectations were a little to high. I may have to retract some of my statements from earlier, IUP sure would have a long way to go before they would be up to snuff with the big boys of 1aa... a long way. They did have some decent looking DBs otherwise they didnt resemble anything more than a mediocre d2 football team...but none the less that is what they are. I would put my money on any mid major against IUP but I still think if they were to move to 1aa schollie they would bring in plenty of talent and be able to compete within a few years but this is all hear say. The biggest difference between d2 ball and 1aa is depth.

Thanks for the update. I think the jump to I-AA is a few years away so they should look like a D-2 team since that is what they are. Also, some coaches play their regulars sparingly in the spring game so they can get a good look at their younger players. This may be the case for what you saw.

Depth is a big difference at the I-AA vs. D-2 level but I would add the play of the respective front 7's. I have been impressed over the years with the skill level of the skill players I have seen on D-2 teams (Usually, West Chester) but over the course of the game they cannot generate anything sustainable because UD's front 7 is just better. I compare that to teams such as Umass and JMU and their front 7 players are much better and much more physical. :nod: