Charlie Manuel Watch

[Marcus Garvey]

Hey Phillies phans:

What do you think? Will Charlie last the season? I doubt it. In fact, If they play another game on this homestand like they did Tues. night, he won't make it out of April (IMO).

Let's face it, there's no reason to keep him:
a) The organization hired him only because of the acquisition of Jim Thome, who's now gone
b) He recommened HIMSELF for the managerial job over Jim Leyland and Jim Fregosi, 2 managers with much better track records
c) The guy who hired him (Ed Wade) is gone. Pat Gillick has no reason to keep him.

So, when Charlie is canned, who will replace him? Any thoughts or wishful thinking?

[LeopardFan04]

I think he's worthless...in one game last year he had a pitcher bat instead of pinch-hitting, and then pulled the pitcher before the next inning...he said that sometimes he forgets he doesn't have the DH in the NL...questionable decisions like that scare me...

[SunCoastBlueHen]

Hey Phillies phans:

What do you think? Will Charlie last the season? I doubt it. In fact, If they play another game on this homestand like they did Tues. night, he won't make it out of April (IMO).

Let's face it, there's no reason to keep him:
a) The organization hired him only because of the acquisition of Jim Thome, who's now gone
b) He recommened HIMSELF for the managerial job over Jim Leyland and Jim Fregosi, 2 managers with much better track records
c) The guy who hired him (Ed Wade) is gone. Pat Gillick has no reason to keep him.

So, when Charlie is canned, who will replace him? Any thoughts or wishful thinking?

Is Danny Ozark still alive?

[ngineer]

I think he's useless. No thought it seems. Just 'goes with percentages'. you don't need a manager to do that. Howabout Larry Anderson coming down out of the broadcast booth???

[Ivytalk]

June 30. Mark it down: Charlie's gone. And get rid of that idiot 3B coach Bill Dancy while you're at it.

Bring back John Vukovich to manage. If his health is decent, I think he'd do a good job.

[ngineer]

June 30. Mark it down: Charlie's gone. And get rid of that idiot 3B coach Bill Dancy while you're at it.

Bring back John Vukovich to manage. If his health is decent, I think he'd do a good job.

Good thought. I think Vuke is well liked by the players, yet, is capable of making the tough decisions. Was also an aggressive 3B coach.

[Marcus Garvey]

I got this feeling that Gillick is going to dig deep into his bag of tricks and pull out Cito Gaston to replace Manuel.

[LeopardFan04]

I was at the game tonight. Horrible. Just horrible. 3 hits I think.

[ngineer]

I was at the game tonight. Horrible. Just horrible. 3 hits I think.

Saw the lo-lights on the news...Phils have the highest team ERA in the NL.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

This team is a good manager, a solid #1 and #3 pitcher away from winning the division. The Mets are good but i think they'll come back to earth. I really think the Phills need a Bowa type manager, maybe not as a crazy. They need someone who shows passion and that he cares about the game. How i wish they got Leylans instead of Manual. Atleast my other team the O's are playing decent. Although they'll hit their usual nosedive around Memorial Day; last year's collapse was monumental.

[LeopardFan04]

One of the things I thought about tonight, (while trying not to attack the team), is that there is no fiery leader on the team...I'm sure there are leaders, but not really anyone to go into the clubhouse after a crappy game and wipe the floor with everyone...and I think they need that...that and Manuel needs to go, soon:bang: ...saw Cal Ripken, Jr. from afar at the game tonight...so that was cool...I kidded that he was probably there to buy the team and move it to Baltimore...:rotateh:

[bluehenbillk]

Charlie reached a new low last night. Since everyone complained that Ryan Howard has beeen batting sixth Charlie moved him last night.

Problem is, he moved him to seventh behind David Bell who's hitting a hefty .205.

[Ivytalk]

Charlie reached a new low last night. Since everyone complained that Ryan Howard has beeen batting sixth Charlie moved him last night.

Problem is, he moved him to seventh behind David Bell who's hitting a hefty .205.

What a dumb hayseed. Charlie can't find his arse with both hands.

[Ivytalk]

Another awful home loss to another crappy team. I'm changing my Manuel Disappearing Date to May 31. No leadership, no heart.

[ngineer]

Another awful home loss to another crappy team. I'm changing my Manuel Disappearing Date to May 31. No leadership, no heart.

If Meyers doesn't stop the bleeding tomorrow, assuming it's not rained out, this is going to get real ugly, real quick....:(

[Ivytalk]

Is Danny Ozark still alive?
Yes, he is! I just googled him, and he's a sprightly 82 years old and counting. He's tanned, he's rested, he's ready!:D

[Ivytalk]

The Phillies are now 2-0 in games in which Manuel has been ejected! Keep it up, Charlie! You may catch Earl Weaver yet!

[AppGuy04]

The Phillies are now 2-0 in games in which Manuel has been ejected! Keep it up, Charlie! You may catch Earl Weaver yet!

maybe thats a sign

[Ivytalk]

My last projected firing date doesn't look too good now. The Phils have won nine straight, including last night's 5-4 win over the hated Mets. Looks like that dumb jerkov Billy Wagner fired up the Fightin's, although Gordon did blow his first save of the year.

[GannonFan]

At least Charlie has learned to leave enough alone - he finally put the lineup together with Howard in the right spot, and now he's left it alone. Amazing what a hands-off manager can get done - although I was worried that he was going to leave Gordon in to hit in the 9th and then still replace him in the 10th - he's done that before.

[Marcus Garvey]

At least Charlie has learned to leave enough alone - he finally put the lineup together with Howard in the right spot, and now he's left it alone. Amazing what a hands-off manager can get done - although I was worried that he was going to leave Gordon in to hit in the 9th and then still replace him in the 10th - he's done that before.

Charlie's doctor must have changed his medications and he's still adjusting. In a few weeks I suspect we'll see him bat Howard 1st and have him playing Left Field.

[AppGuy04]

My last projected firing date doesn't look too good now. The Phils have won nine straight, including last night's 5-4 win over the hated Mets. Looks like that dumb jerkov Billy Wagner fired up the Fightin's, although Gordon did blow his first save of the year.

Gordon has been the best closer in the NL this year thus far, so I wouldn't complain

[SunCoastBlueHen]

Cole Hamels who has been touted as "the best Phillies prospect in many years" pitched five shutout innings of one hit ball tonight against the strong hitting Reds. So Manuel yanks him after five in favor of Madson with a 2-0 lead. Madson promptly gives up two long balls in sixth to tie the score. So I ask, why was the kid pulled?

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Cole Hamels who has been touted as "the best Phillies prospect in many years" pitched five shutout innings of one hit ball tonight against the strong hitting Reds. So Manuel yanks him after five in favor of Madson with a 2-0 lead. Madson promptly gives up two long balls in sixth to tie the score. So I ask, why was the kid pulled?

My guess is Manual was not really worrying about physical fatigue as much as mental fatigue. Given the Reds lineup Manual might have thought Cole might have been prone to given up some hits after facing big hitter after big hitter. He's not used to facing a lineup with as dangerous as the Reds and since it was his first start Manual might have thought the law of averages were gonna catch up to Cole. Phils are about notch another W as their up 7-2 in the 9th.

[SunCoastBlueHen]

My guess is Manual was not really worrying about physical fatigue as much as mental fatigue. Given the Reds lineup Manual might have thought Cole might have been prone to given up some hits after facing big hitter after big hitter. He's not used to facing a lineup with as dangerous as the Reds and since it was his first start Manual might have thought the law of averages were gonna catch up to Cole. Phils are about notch another W as their up 7-2 in the 9th.

Well, the Phils won, but I definately don't agree with that philosophy. I don't think you can assume Cole is gonna crack unless he shows some signs of it first. Kid pitched a great game and certainly lived up to his hype. A win is a win, but I would have loved for Cole to have a chance build up his confidence even more than he did.

[ngineer]

Hamels pitch count was pretty high (today's standards). He walked 5. Plus I think they wanted to get Madson into the saddle right away with his move to the pen. Rhodes and Gordon were phenomenal tonight. And Victorino is showing some great potential.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Well, the Phils won, but I definately don't agree with that philosophy. I don't think you can assume Cole is gonna crack unless he shows some signs of it first. Kid pitched a great game and certainly lived up to his hype. A win is a win, but I would have loved for Cole to have a chance build up his confidence even more than he did.


I agree that Cole probably should have stayed in the game. I was just trying to rationalize Charlie's decision to pull 'em. All that matters is that the Fightins' won.

[Ivytalk]

Hamels pitch count was pretty high (today's standards). He walked 5. Plus I think they wanted to get Madson into the saddle right away with his move to the pen. Rhodes and Gordon were phenomenal tonight. And Victorino is showing some great potential.

Shane V is looking good, but Rowand is out for 2 to 3 weeks.:(

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Shane V is looking good, but Rowand is out for 2 to 3 weeks.:(


2 or 3 weeks isn't bad. Rowand is a great player and if this is the only time his misses the rest of the season he can wear his war wound pround the next couple of weeks.

[blukeys]

Shane V is looking good, but Rowand is out for 2 to 3 weeks.:(

I've broken my nose and had surgery. Rowand will be impacted for more than 3 weeks.

[SunCoastBlueHen]

Holy Sheep****z, the Phils win again - this time behind the strong arm of Jon Leiber?! Is this current stretch for real or is it just an extended fluke?

[Ivytalk]

And how about that Ryan Howard today, with a pinch HR in the 8th to tie it and another in the 12th to win it? That's 13 out of 14. Pinch me!:nod: :p

[blukeys]

And how about that Ryan Howard today, with a pinch HR in the 8th to tie it and another in the 12th to win it? That's 13 out of 14. Pinch me!:nod: :p

Players like Ryan Howard can make any manager/coach look like a genius.

[Go...gate]

Manuel looks like the right guy. He didn't get down on the players after a slow start - he knew he had a good club. With Atlanta recovering and the Mets holding first place but with a shaky back of the rotation, it will be a fun summer in the NL East.

[ngineer]

And how about that Ryan Howard today, with a pinch HR in the 8th to tie it and another in the 12th to win it? That's 13 out of 14. Pinch me!:nod: :p

Not only that, Howard was sick as a dog Sunday morning.Was in a Cincinnati hospital with some kind of stomach virus. Reason why he didn't start and sent up to pinch hit in 8th.
Supposedly Manuel did have some words for the Fightin's down in Florida after that horrible debacle in Pittsburgh during that first game when they came back from being down 5-1, to win 8-5 and have stayed on this tear.
Of the last 14 games they have played, I was at the one game they sucked--that 13-4 blowout last week!:( :(
I like the fact they brought Geary back, but didn't hear who he replaced. Santana looks like hell. I'm hoping they dumped him...

[LeopardFan04]

I think you got it...Santana was placed on the DL to make room for Geary...I think for "elbow soreness"...how about "crappy pitching"...but all in all a great weekend...let's hope they keep it rolling...

[SunCoastBlueHen]

GO Phils!

Could be a very interesting summer.

[AppGuy04]

Only 1 game out of first

[ngineer]

Maybe we should change the name of this thread. I don't think it's looking like a Manuel 'death watch' anymore.:o

[blukeys]

Maybe we should change the name of this thread. I don't think it's looking like a Manuel 'death watch' anymore.:o


I totally disagree!!! Since, Ivytalk began this thread the Fightins' have come around. He may not be much of a baseball prognisticator but Ivytalk can definitely begin a thread that can change the fortune of a baseball team!!!!!!!xlolx :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod:

The month of May has been good for the Phils. Great Mays were the secret of the early 70's teams.

[blukeys]

Not only that, Howard was sick as a dog Sunday morning.Was in a Cincinnati hospital with some kind of stomach virus. Reason why he didn't start and sent up to pinch hit in 8th.
Supposedly Manuel did have some words for the Fightin's down in Florida after that horrible debacle in Pittsburgh during that first game when they came back from being down 5-1, to win 8-5 and have stayed on this tear.
Of the last 14 games they have played, I was at the one game they sucked--that 13-4 blowout last week!:( :(
I like the fact they brought Geary back, but didn't hear who he replaced. Santana looks like hell. I'm hoping they dumped him...


Geary was optioned because he was the only one who had an option. Santana unfortunately is still there. Maybe one day he will throw a strike. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[ngineer]

I totally disagree!!! Since, Ivytalk began this thread the Fightins' have come around. He may not be much of a baseball prognisticator but Ivytalk can definitely begin a thread that can change the fortune of a baseball team!!!!!!!xlolx :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod:

The month of May has been good for the Phils. Great Mays were the secret of the early 70's teams.

OK--I get the 'reverse psychology' thing....:rolleyes: But with all my decades of following the Phils, I've tried all sorts of talismans, voodoo, and superstitions..what the hell, lets play out the string....er, thread!:D

[blukeys]

OK--I get the 'reverse psychology' thing....:rolleyes: But with all my decades of following the Phils, I've tried all sorts of talismans, voodoo, and superstitions..what the hell, lets play out the string....er, thread!:D


No doubt about it, the Phils tease us to death. One good thing they usually flame out in time for us to focus on our respective football teams!!!!!!!!!:nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod:

[Ivytalk]

I totally disagree!!! Since, Ivytalk began this thread the Fightins' have come around. He may not be much of a baseball prognisticator but Ivytalk can definitely begin a thread that can change the fortune of a baseball team!!!!!!!xlolx :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod:

The month of May has been good for the Phils. Great Mays were the secret of the early 70's teams.

Well, blukeys, all the credit for beginning this thread belongs to Marcus Garvey, not to me! I just added misguided fuel to the fire!:o Heck, if they lose 10 in a row, my May 31 prediction could still turn out right!:p

[AppGuy04]

I totally disagree!!! Since, Ivytalk began this thread the Fightins' have come around. He may not be much of a baseball prognisticator but Ivytalk can definitely begin a thread that can change the fortune of a baseball team!!!!!!!xlolx :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod:

The month of May has been good for the Phils. Great Mays were the secret of the early 70's teams.

Cole Hamels looked good this past weekend too

[bluehenbillk]

With Lieberthal out now for a couple more weeks with a fracture the ERA's should go further down.

[SunCoastBlueHen]

With Lieberthal out now for a couple more weeks with a fracture the ERA's should go further down.

You almost have to wonder if there is something to that. I would like to see a staff ERA comparison for the season with Lieberthal and without.

[Ivytalk]

The Phils lost their third consecutive one-run game to the Brewers today -- a team they used to own. Hamels folded late and the bullpen (Madson, in particular) added gas to the fire. What's happened to Madson? He's sucked all year, big time. The Braves are closing, but the Mets haven't pulled away.

God, I hate it when I'm right!:o

[SunCoastBlueHen]

The Phils lost their third consecutive one-run game to the Brewers today -- a team they used to own. Hamels folded late and the bullpen (Madson, in particular) added gas to the fire. What's happened to Madson? He's sucked all year, big time. The Braves are closing, but the Mets haven't pulled away.

God, I hate it when I'm right!:o

Hamels didn't exactly fold, he made one bad pitch. Cole was charged with three runs in the seventh, but his inning went pop out, bloop single, home run (the one bad pitch), walk. Madson let the walk score - charged to Hamels. Cole is going to be a solid #2 pitcher. Despite losing three straight to the Brew Crew, I still think the Phils will be competitive in the NL East this year.

[MR. CHICKEN]

THANKY ST LOUIS.....FO' KEEPIN' DUH FIGHTIN'S CLOSE....(still only two out).....EVEN WHIFF OUT PUJOLS..........:nod:..........AWK!

CHARLEY......TIME TA GET TOSSED..AGIN'.........:nod:......BRAWK!

[LacesOut]

The Phightins' should hang around for the entire season. Because the division stinks.

[dbackjon]

The Phightins' should hang around for the entire season. Because the division stinks.

Yup - everyone always dogs on the NL West, but at least all the NL West teams are competitive.

[SunCoastBlueHen]

The stinking Phillies are starting to piss me off. :splat: :bang:

That two week span at the beginning of the month is starting to look more and more like a typical Phillies teaser streak.

[AppGuy04]

The stinking Phillies are starting to piss me off. :splat: :bang:

That two week span at the beginning of the month is starting to look more and more like a typical Phillies teaser streak.

yep, now tied with the Braves for 2nd place in the division

and........http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=Atth5KdgxPuxXTJOdvFXgQQRvLYF?slug=philli eshamels&prov=st&type=lgns

[Ivytalk]

The stinking Phillies are starting to piss me off. :splat: :bang:

That two week span at the beginning of the month is starting to look more and more like a typical Phillies teaser streak.

Right you are. And with Hamels hurt and the pitching otherwise going to hell, it doesn't look like it's going to get any better.: smh :

[SunCoastBlueHen]

The Phils are up 5-3 in the eighth - can the blow another late lead?

[MR. CHICKEN]

DING DING!..............PHILS TOOK IT!............:nod:.....BAWK!

NOW 4 OUT.......AN' TIME TA PAY BACK...DUH BREWERS!..:nod:...AWK!

[Ivytalk]

DING DING!..............PHILS TOOK IT!............:nod:.....BAWK!

NOW 4 OUT.......AN' TIME TA PAY BACK...DUH BREWERS!..:nod:...AWK!

Good to see Brett Myers win one for a change. The Phils haven't scored much for him this year. Somehow, the Phils' pitchers make Jose Reyes look like Barry Bonds. Heck, they make opposing pitchers look like Bonds! Oh, well, we're 3-3 vs. the Mets now.:p

[SunCoastBlueHen]

Good to see Brett Myers win one for a change. The Phils haven't scored much for him this year. Somehow, the Phils' pitchers make Jose Reyes look like Barry Bonds. Heck, they make opposing pitchers look like Bonds! Oh, well, we're 3-3 vs. the Mets now.:p

How about opposing American League pitchers at that!

[ngineer]

I liked him last year in the short time he was in, but this year I'm even more impressed with Victorino. The guy is always 'full tilt'-has the same type of motor like Utley and Rowand. There is a nice core group of young players. I wonder if they can hang around into August whether they'll make a move for a pitcher using Burrell or Abreu?

[blukeys]

Hey Chalie figured out you can pitch Gordon for 2 Innings today as a closer. Now maybe if he figured this out on Tuesday the Fightin's might have won 2 out of 3 in NY.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The end of an era...

http://www.mcall.com/sports/mc-phillies-charlie-manuel-fired-20130816,0,2624991.story

I mean the end of an era... the "Charlie Manuel Watch" threads on AGS xlolx

[blueballs]

Chollie out, Sandberg in.

They're still long in the tooth and short of depth though. Nothing will change until the off season regarding on field performance.

[Cleets]

Chollie out, Sandberg in.

They're still long in the tooth and short of depth though. Nothing will change until the off season regarding on field performance.

Yeah this is more just to give Sandberg a run around the clubhouse to see if they like his style
This season sunk Charlie / regardless he was gone in October / I agree with the move if you're going to go with a new Manager no matter what at season end, then why not right now

[PaladinFan]

I don't get the mid-season change. If this is a novice guy, you can fire him whenever. It's just hard to show a guy the door before the end of the season who is one of the big reasons your franchise is relevant.

[Laker]

Any predictions on which team Charley manages next year? They seem to recycle the same people.

[ngineer]

Yeah this is more just to give Sandberg a run around the clubhouse to see if they like his style
This season sunk Charlie / regardless he was gone in October / I agree with the move if you're going to go with a new Manager no matter what at season end, then why not right now

Absolutely. I lot of people are down on the Phillies for terminating now, but they really did him a favor if he wants to manage again, he's got a leg up on any potential jobs out there. He's also welcome to stay in the front office. No reason to let him "twist in the wind for 42 games". Plus a good opportunity to see how Sandberg handles himself.

[Fear the Bird]

Any predictions on which team Charley manages next year? They seem to recycle the same people.

Washington or Kansas City

[ngineer]

Heard Washington may be interested. Obviously Werth would love to see him there...plus consider the 'juice' it gives the growing rivalry on I-95!

[PaladinFan]

Heard Washington may be interested. Obviously Werth would love to see him there...plus consider the 'juice' it gives the growing rivalry on I-95!

After this season, one would think the Nats would move away from a guy in the twilight of his career.

[ngineer]

After this season, one would think the Nats would move away from a guy in the twilight of his career.

One would think,...but then, again, Chollie has been to WS twice in recent times, and with a veteran club, such as Washington, 'managing' the pieces is important.

[ngineer]

Hey, don't look now, but Phillies have won 3 of 4, with two walk offs in a row. Actually appear to be playing with some 'vinegear' out there.

[PaladinFan]

One would think,...but then, again, Chollie has been to WS twice in recent times, and with a veteran club, such as Washington, 'managing' the pieces is important.

There is a certain characteristic there. Good managers, in my view, are kind of grouped into two categories. There are the "plug and play" types (like Manuel, Torre, Mattingly, etc.) that have been gifted extremely talented rosters by virtue of deep pocketbooks. Those guys are generally great managers of personalities. The other type (maybe Joe Maddon, Ron Roeinke, and to a lesser degree Fredi Gonzalez) are tacticians. Guys that are good because they are surrounded maybe by less talented rosters, but more talented front offices and scouting departments.

I'm not completely sure where Washington falls in terms of need on that end.

[bluehenbillk]

Winning record so far with Sandberg. Unless the price tag comes way way down they can't bring Halladay back next year. Save that $ and use it towards catcher/pitching.

[PaladinFan]

Winning record so far with Sandberg. Unless the price tag comes way way down they can't bring Halladay back next year. Save that $ and use it towards catcher/pitching.

It's not really about Sandberg at this point. I mean, I hope he does well, but the issues with the Phillies were not the manager. In the same way Don Mattingly is no better a manager now than he was early in the season when fans were calling for his firing, Manuel is no worse a manager now than he was when the Phillies were a playoff team.

It's good for the Phillies to get a little juice or excitement, but in my opinion, regardless of who is managing they they need to address core problems. Firing the manager is treating the symptom.

[ngineer]

Phillies have now won 5 of last 6 and for the third night in a row a walk off win in the bottom of the ninth. Felt like 'old times'. Halladay will have a month to show what he still has left. If he shows he can be a solid 3/4 starter, then I see him returning, but certainly not for #1 money. I see him giving the Phils a 'hometown discount' as he certainly seems to like it in Philly. There are also good signs with Ruf, Ashe, and Brown for next year. Key is getting the bullpen straightened out and Martin may find a home there. Looks like a very good arm.