best comeback of the week: The Apprentice School

[whoanellie]

I know the Apprentice school is not FCS. I don't know what they are, but one just has to give it up for the "Builders" . After getting drubbed by Campbell, yes Campbell, The "Butchers of Buies Creek" 76 to nothing. These future recipients of Obama's stimulus money rebounded to win a 9-7 tilt against Greensboro College.
Hard Hats off to the Builders!!!xbowxxbowxxbowxxbowxxbowx

[crusader11]

Haha, rep points!

[Twentysix]

The coaches thought bye's comeback against NDSU was respectable.xlolx

[alvinkayak6]

OMG Greensboro College. Can my 30 year old sister with no college experience walk-on? Wow.

[Appfan_in_CAAland]

I know the Apprentice school is not FCS. I don't know what they are, but one just has to give it up for the "Builders" .

The Apprentice "Builders" are the athletic program for the Northrup Grumann Newport News Shipyards Apprentice School in Newport News, Virginia. My understanding is that they are an "affiliate" member of the NCAA at the D3 level - and have been I believe since at least before WWII. They are affiliates and not a full NCAA member because the school does not grant degrees. Instead, students are accepted into an shipbuilding apprentice program. After graduatation, the graduates are given a job at the Shipyards building a large part of America's Navy. I worked with a guy who was accepted into the very competative program and was planning on playing football for them as well. I think pretty much apprentice who wants to can play on the football team.

[TheBisonator]

The Apprentice "Builders" are the athletic program for the Northrup Grumann Newport News Shipyards Apprentice School in Newport News, Virginia. My understanding is that they are an "affiliate" member of the NCAA at the D3 level - and have been I believe since at least before WWII. They are affiliates and not a full NCAA member because the school does not grant degrees. Instead, students are accepted into an shipbuilding apprentice program. When completed, graduates are given a job at the Shipyards building a large part of America's Navy. I worked with a guy who was accepted into the very competative program and was planning on playing football for them as well. I think pretty much apprentice who wants to can play on the football team.

So... They're not even really a "school" in what we know of the traditional sense???

[Appfan_in_CAAland]

Of course its a school. Its just not a degree granting institution in the traditional sense.

[TheBisonator]

Of course its a school. Its just not a degree granting institution in the traditional sense.

Heck, even vo-techs grant degrees...

Isn't the concept of apprenticeship kind of an archaic and outdated one??

[wr70beh]

Heck, even vo-techs grant degrees...

Isn't the concept of apprenticeship kind of an archaic and outdated one??

Only in a service economy.

[Milktruck74]

Heck, even vo-techs grant degrees...

Isn't the concept of apprenticeship kind of an archaic and outdated one??

These guys end up with a $50-60k/yr job coming out of school, and that is before they work overtime. Thats better then most 4 year degree students make in their first job....College isn't for everybody, and often times skilled tradesmen earn much higher incomes than Bachelor Degreed folkss.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

These guys end up with a $50-60k/yr job coming out of school, and that is before they work overtime. Thats better then most 4 year degree students make in their first job....College isn't for everybody, and often times skilled tradesmen earn much higher incomes than Bachelor Degreed folkss.

It's just odd to me that people think that doing a real "man's" type of work is second to the kind of jobs that this country now has.

Suck a soft country now with the afformentioned service industry thing. Too bad that an apprenticeship could ever be called archaic.

We'd be a whole lot better off I think as a country if we didn't have everyone just heading to college to be a glorified secretary and had more people actually building something of value.

On top of that we wouldn't be nearly the collective of pussies we are at this point.

[CID1990]

Heck, even vo-techs grant degrees...

Isn't the concept of apprenticeship kind of an archaic and outdated one??

I have known a lot of shipyard workers.

Lofting and drafting are not only highly skilled, focused abilities, but they are also in high demand in the shipyard industry. There are several maritime apprenticing schools. The Merchant Marine Academy also teaches some of these skills.

One of the owners of the Detyens Shipyard in Charleston went to the Apprentice School prior to the MM academy, and he is a multimillionaire who made his money with his hands. Detyens also emplyed a LOT of people.

I'll take these archaic skills over an IT weenie with a degree from a votech school any day. The dearth of these kinds of schools is a sad testament to what we have become.

[Appfan_in_CAAland]

Heck, even vo-techs grant degrees...

Isn't the concept of apprenticeship kind of an archaic and outdated one??

Learning to weld is definately a better use of your time than sitting through 30 hours of "Interpretive Dance" and "Vitcim-Group Studies" and what ever other crap passes for "Core Coursework" these days.

I wish I at least considered some sort of a program like Apprentice. Graduate from there and you get 50k a year to start. All you get after earning a BA from a state university these days is a piece of paper and a job at Starbucks - if your lucky.

[gasoutherneagle]

Of course its a school. Its just not a degree granting institution in the traditional sense.

OH, LIKE GEORGIA STATE!

[Franks Tanks]

Certainly nothing wrong with learning a skilled trade. The problem is that a skilled trade can easily become obsolete, or can have an excess of workers quite easily. All of us probably know electricians, carpenters, plumbers etc. who have been unemployed for some time. They have a skill, but one very specific skill. Changing market conditions can easily make it nex to impossible to get a job.

[MR. CHICKEN]

16131...AHHH!.....HOWEVERAH........EVERAH HOMEOWNER...AT SOMETIME..O' 'NOTHERAH.....COOD USE DUH EXPERTISE....O' SAID....SKILLED LADS......UNDER-DUH-TABLE...CASH......ON SATURDAYS........ON TOP O' EARNIN'.....UH...WEEKLY LIVIN'........VERAH LUCRATIVE...IFIN' YER UH HUSTLERAH.....BRAWK!

[GunsAndGuitars]

Learning to weld is definately a better use of your time than sitting through 30 hours of "Interpretive Dance" and "Vitcim-Group Studies" and what ever other crap passes for "Core Coursework" these days.

Try having a degree in a field that is dominated by literature from a culture that hates you because of your race and gender (oh wait, you mentioned those). I can weld if we're talking stick, but MIG and TIG are a bit rough. You can always go back to school too. My uncle told me when I got out of college that I needed to go to a four year degree granting institution for the experience in life. I thought he was crazy, but I see what he meant now. If I had it to do over again, I would've gone to school and gotten certification in Plumbing, Electrical, HVAC, then welding, then one of the mechanical studies in that order. If you have any common sense, you can do SOMETHING to make money with that skill set.

I did take a semester off from ASU (they didn't offer Advanced Spanish Conversation in the fall) and took welding and grape and wine science (viticulture) in a community college. I learned melting steel is a lot of fun, but one could go broke quickly growing the necessities for alcohol. One of my classmates from the community college got a job welding pipelines. He makes somewhere close to $50-60K and benefits, but he works some ridiculous number of hours per week for a certain number of months then has something like a month off at a time.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Certainly nothing wrong with learning a skilled trade. The problem is that a skilled trade can easily become obsolete, or can have an excess of workers quite easily. All of us probably know electricians, carpenters, plumbers etc. who have been unemployed for some time. They have a skill, but one very specific skill. Changing market conditions can easily make it nex to impossible to get a job.

Whenever there's a boom there are people that rush to that and when things relax some of it goes away. There are shortages of skilled trade labor all over the place unless that has changed in the last couple of years too. But either way it closely mimics what is happening all over with there being so many degrees out there. Every kid feels they need to go to college now and there seems to be a large amount of them having trouble getting in with the usual degrees.

Don't know for sure but the emphasis on college vs. skilled trades seems out of whack.

Calling the apprenticeships archaic is what seemed kind of dumb to me though.

[CID1990]

Calling the apprenticeships archaic is what seemed kind of dumb to me though.

Agreed, but consider the source.

They don't know much about shipbuilding in North Dakota.

For that matter they might not know what oceans are.

[Twentysix]

Agreed, but consider the source.

They don't know much about shipbuilding in North Dakota.

For that matter they might not know what oceans are.

We have our fair share of welders...Idk if you have ever seen something being dug by a caterpiller or a bobcat.. Just to name one local plant.

Being a welder pays like crap around here though, its like $14-17 an hour. Unskilled jobs pay right around that unless its a gas station or walmart..

I couldnt imagine going to school to make 17 an hour.

8 years ago I got my first job.... it started at 9.85 an hour, I was 15.... my second job 2 years later started at 11.85... the last 2 jobs I have worked have paid more than either of those two plus commision and benefits ( employee discount at an electronics store + countless retailer rewards sites, the other free cable with every channel including all ppv's 24/7 + free unthrottled uncapped internet connection ).. none of these jobs were skilled, and I have no degree yet..

[gasoutherneagle]

Can't argue. Do I use my BBA? Hell no! I make more driving a freakin' beer truck for a living. Not to mention, it's safer then a job in middle management these days.xrolleyesx

[soweagle]

I've been hearing that South Dakota has a huge boom going on right now with shale oil. The demand for workers is way up for all kinds of skill sets from McDonald's employees to skilled laborers. Anyone know if this is true? I'm not heading that way just curious.

[Franks Tanks]

Whenever there's a boom there are people that rush to that and when things relax some of it goes away. There are shortages of skilled trade labor all over the place unless that has changed in the last couple of years too. But either way it closely mimics what is happening all over with there being so many degrees out there. Every kid feels they need to go to college now and there seems to be a large amount of them having trouble getting in with the usual degrees.

Don't know for sure but the emphasis on college vs. skilled trades seems out of whack.

Calling the apprenticeships archaic is what seemed kind of dumb to me though.

I agree Ursus. In some areas there may be a glut of skilled workers, but not really so in the Northeast. There are plenty of union electricians and the like that don't have steady work. One of my good friends from high school is a union pipefitter. When he is working he is doing well, but he gets laid off often. He will get hired for a project and work his *** off for a few months. When the project is over he may not get work again for 2-3 months. The money is great when he is working, but being laid off so frequently,even with unemployment, really cuts into his annual salary. It's a good living for sure, but not all gravy.

An apprentice program is certainly not archaic. These skills are needed, and the US would be a lot better off if we had a lot of guys making 50-60K a year building durable goods. I also agree about college. Many kids who don't belong in college end up attending, and are buried under student loan debt. I know dozens of people who go off to college and return to their family HVAC business or whatever. I cringe when Obama or some politician talks about sending every student to college. It is not the answer for many people.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I agree Ursus. In some areas there may be a glut of skilled workers, but not really so in the Northeast. There are plenty of union electricians and the like that don't have steady work. One of my good friends from high school is a union pipefitter. When he is working he is doing well, but he gets laid off often. He will get hired for a project and work his *** off for a few months. When the project is over he may not get work again for 2-3 months. The money is great when he is working, but being laid off so frequently,even with unemployment, really cuts into his annual salary. It's a good living for sure, but not all gravy.

An apprentice program is certainly not archaic. These skills are needed, and the US would be a lot better off if we had a lot of guys making 50-60K a year building durable goods. I also agree about college. Many kids who don't belong in college end up attending, and are buried under student loan debt. I know dozens of people who go off to college and return to their family HVAC business or whatever. I cringe when Obama or some politician talks about sending every student to college. It is not the answer for many people.

You know I think you may have hit on a big difference in your gus' culture and the culture (of work) out west or at least in this area. The college guys should start looking your direction. They are laying all over the place but the trades, truck drivers and so forth are in high demand. The oil deal in E. Montana & ND is calling for a lot of labor and is actually affecting people in W. Montana and all over the region due to the fact that there is a major pay increase that way even normal laborers are uprooting and heading there.

The guys that can drive truck and have their CDL's are moving and the other skills that are needed are going too.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

We have our fair share of welders...Idk if you have ever seen something being dug by a caterpiller or a bobcat.. Just to name one local plant.

Being a welder pays like crap around here though, its like $14-17 an hour. Unskilled jobs pay right around that unless its a gas station or walmart..

I couldnt imagine going to school to make 17 an hour.

8 years ago I got my first job.... it started at 9.85 an hour, I was 15.... my second job 2 years later started at 11.85... the last 2 jobs I have worked have paid more than either of those two plus commision and benefits ( employee discount at an electronics store + countless retailer rewards sites, the other free cable with every channel including all ppv's 24/7 + free unthrottled uncapped internet connection ).. none of these jobs were skilled, and I have no degree yet..

I don't even know how that's possible around Fargo 26. I know a fella that went down there and left his job here because he was offered $75K for working 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off?

Hell, I don't even see how that is possible without the oil boom. I specifically know about needing welder for equipment breakdowns and I took welding classes about 5 yrs. ago just so I could patch up my Ditch With and keep moving when I had something brreak. It would cost me about $200 everytime something broke and take a day out of the scedule and the welder would have less than an hours work on the thing.

You can not be talking about a fully qualified welder?

[Franks Tanks]

You know I think you may have hit on a big difference in your gus' culture and the culture (of work) out west or at least in this area. The college guys should start looking your direction. They are laying all over the place but the trades, truck drivers and so forth are in high demand. The oil deal in E. Montana & ND is calling for a lot of labor and is actually affecting people in W. Montana and all over the region due to the fact that there is a major pay increase that way even normal laborers are uprooting and heading there.

The guys that can drive truck and have their CDL's are moving and the other skills that are needed are going too.

We have a bit of that here in PA as well with the natural gas drilling going on in the Central and Northern PA marcellus shale fields. Good to hear that in at least some parts of the country skilled tradesmen are doing well.

[Twentysix]

I don't even know how that's possible around Fargo 26. I know a fella that went down there and left his job here because he was offered $75K for working 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off?

Hell, I don't even see how that is possible without the oil boom. I specifically know about needing welder for equipment breakdowns and I took welding classes about 5 yrs. ago just so I could patch up my Ditch With and keep moving when I had something brreak. It would cost me about $200 everytime something broke and take a day out of the scedule and the welder would have less than an hours work on the thing.

You can not be talking about a fully qualified welder?

That is rigger work weeks. Not typical welding. Typical ND welding is manufacturing Bobcat and Caterpiller equipment and farm stuff etc and it doesnt pay even close to 75k.

That is not anywhere past the western 1/3 of the state. Milemarker 60 or so on I94 ends the last chance of oil for quite awhile. If the oil market doesnt come crashing down it will probably expand west about 1/2 way to bismarck but we are talking like a decade or two best case scenario, not much further.

Fargo is about 300 miles east of any oil.

MIG/TIG Welders Job type: Full-Time | Pay: $11.00 - $12.00/hour that is from 13 months ago. If you have been there all your life welding you might make 25 an hour. Which is terrible imo.




Welder (oil industry experience)
Job Number:
36910308
Company Name:
Baker Hughes
Location:
WILLISTON, ND US (You think fargo sucks... try living in willistion)
Career Focus:
Public Utilities & Services
Is a job you are talking about, I can't gurantee it pays 75k either. I can gurantee that job is temporary and at best will last 15 years. At worst could be gone tommorow. The oilfields in ND have receeded before it will happen again.

Description:
MIG Welders Needed. 3+ months of work. Must be proficient with fraction, decimal, and metric conversions. Must be able to read prints and understand weld symbols. Pay: $13.00/hr & $100/day Per diem (Gross around $1300 on average work week of 50 hours). Company Paid Bonus Program! Please respond with resume/work history or fax to Register to View .

Woo you can work for 3 months! Awesome!

Welding is so tough a typical smalltown shop class teaches a 7th grader to do it in about 4 days. By the end of 2 weeks you can lay proper beeds with no slag with 3 different types of welding that would work in the field for most things. (probably not oil rigs though..)

[Twentysix]

Not to mention the oil work is awesome, but the cost of living in dickinson or williston or minot is like 3x what it is in other parts of ND.

A typical apartment that is 500 bucks in Fargo (Typically the more expensive city in ND) is 1700-2000 a month in dickinson.

I personally know people that were renting a house in Minot ND and their rent was raised from one month to the next from 820 to 2800.

The oil is awesome but its kind of ruining the western cities for people who do not work in oil.

[TheBisonator]

Before you guys start piling on me, I was just asking some questions about things I heard about apprenticeships, I didn't have any pre-concieved notion one way or the other.

And for the record, I'm currently being trained in a skilled trade as well (animation), it's one that is only around 100 years old, but it is a somewhat classic skilled trade. I'm even currently somewhat of a halfway-apprentice at this moment, working with teachers who are all currently working as big-shots in the industry. I was bascially asking about apprenticeship in the "classical" sense.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Before you guys start piling on me, I was just asking some questions about things I heard about apprenticeships, I didn't have any pre-concieved notion one way or the other.

And for the record, I'm currently being trained in a skilled trade as well (animation), it's one that is only around 100 years old, but it is a somewhat classic skilled trade. I'm even currently somewhat of a halfway-apprentice at this moment, working with teachers who are all currently working as big-shots in the industry. I was bascially asking about apprenticeship in the "classical" sense.

Ah, c'mon Bisonator, you kicked up a good discussion that was likely going nowhere.xlolx

The career path sounds pretty cool too so good luck.

[Milktruck74]

I know I said this already on the other thread about the Apprentice School, but I laugh just thinking about my experience with these guys.

I was a baby faced 17 year old recent High School grad, 4 days into my prep school/college football career, we knew 2 plays (4 if you consider the mirror) and we loaded on a bus and went to the Newport News Apprentice Academy for a scrimage...The youngest guy on their team was like 23, when I looked across, the nose guard had a full beard and two tattoo sleeves, and probably 3 kids cheering for him in the stands. The skill guys on our team smoked their guys, but their lineMEN absoluely OWNED our lineboys. After the game, we all had BBQ in their gym....they floated a few kegs too. Needless to say, the experience stuck with me. It highlighted the difference between HS and College.

[dgtw]

There are commercials running in Alabama encouraging young people to learn a skilled trade. The ads are narrarated by the guy from Dirty Jobs. He mentions in the ads about how the skilled labor force is aging and now is a good time to get in on the ground floor. The ads are paid for by some state devolpment agency.