Who knew that Georgetown and Villanova did not play football...?

[DetroitFlyer]

http://daytondailynews.stats.com/cfb/story.asp?i=20110918101520463102408&ref=hea&tm=&src=

Complicating matters for the Big East, different numbers of its schools play football and basketball, and they often have different agendas. The nonfootball members - which include Georgetown, Marquette and Villanova - help make it one of the nation's strongest basketball conferences. The other football-playing members are West Virginia, Rutgers, Connecticut, Louisville, South Florida and Cincinnati.

[bluehenbillk]

Have you seen VU & GU play this year? Obviously that writer was correct. :)

[CFBfan]

http://daytondailynews.stats.com/cfb/story.asp?i=20110918101520463102408&ref=hea&tm=&src=

Complicating matters for the Big East, different numbers of its schools play football and basketball, and they often have different agendas. The nonfootball members - which include Georgetown, Marquette and Villanova - help make it one of the nation's strongest basketball conferences. The other football-playing members are West Virginia, Rutgers, Connecticut, Louisville, South Florida and Cincinnati.

The writer was stating the VU & GU were non football members of the Big East, NOT that they didn't play football at all.....I know it's only Mon morning, have some more coffee

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Have you seen VU & GU play this year? Obviously that writer was correct. :)

You can make that case with 'Nova. Georgetown most certainly can play football. Ask Lafayette.

[TypicalTribe]

Let's be honest, the Big East in its current state is dead. If I was in charge of a non-football playing school, I'd be working the following scenario with the other presidents:

Providence
St. John's
Seton Hall
Marquette
DePaul

These five non-football schools plus Villanova and Georgetown and possibly Notre Dame if they still want to stay independent in football. Throw out an invite to Xavier and maybe Temple and definitely Butler. This results in a really solid conference made up of schools with similar missions, all known as mid-size basketball schools, many with religious affiliations. I think it's a way to stay relevant without getting involved with the arms race of college football.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Let's be honest, the Big East in its current state is dead. If I was in charge of a non-football playing school, I'd be working the following scenario with the other presidents:

Providence
St. John's
Seton Hall
Marquette
DePaul

These five non-football schools plus Villanova and Georgetown and possibly Notre Dame if they still want to stay independent in football. Throw out an invite to Xavier and maybe Temple and definitely Butler. This results in a really solid conference made up of schools with similar missions, all known as mid-size basketball schools, many with religious affiliations. I think it's a way to stay relevant without getting involved with the arms race of college football.

It would also make a terrific non-scholarship FCS football league - just add Dayton. Matter of fact, I'd squarely add that to your original post, since they make a boatload of sense in this new world (and would be reunited with Xavier, an old rival).

[URMite]

It would also make a terrific non-scholarship FCS football league - just add Dayton. Matter of fact, I'd squarely add that to your original post, since they make a boatload of sense in this new world (and would be reunited with Xavier, an old rival).

You may have to replace Temple with Dayton instead of adding them. Temple & Villanova in the same conference would be difficult to achieve unless it were a case of survival.

[Go...gate]

Let's be honest, the Big East in its current state is dead. If I was in charge of a non-football playing school, I'd be working the following scenario with the other presidents:

Providence
St. John's
Seton Hall
Marquette
DePaul
[B]Saint Joseph's?

These five non-football schools plus Villanova and Georgetown and possibly Notre Dame if they still want to stay independent in football. Throw out an invite to Xavier and maybe Temple and definitely Butler. This results in a really solid conference made up of schools with similar missions, all known as mid-size basketball schools, many with religious affiliations. I think it's a way to stay relevant without getting involved with the arms race of college football.

Fixed it for you.

[DFW HOYA]

Have you seen VU & GU play this year? Obviously that writer was correct. :)

One of these schools is 2-1 on the season. (Hint: it's not Villanova...)

[Franks Tanks]

Nova is different because they are actually discusisng a move to FBS football. It is still not known if they can pull it off, but they may try.

Georgetown will not entertain FBS football talk.

[superman7515]

According to that interview a few weeks back, Georgetown won't even entertain FCS football talk.

[carney2]

Let's be honest, the Big East in its current state is dead. If I was in charge of a non-football playing school, I'd be working the following scenario with the other presidents:

Providence
St. John's
Seton Hall
Marquette
DePaul

These five non-football schools plus Villanova and Georgetown and possibly Notre Dame if they still want to stay independent in football. Throw out an invite to Xavier and maybe Temple and definitely Butler. This results in a really solid conference made up of schools with similar missions, all known as mid-size basketball schools, many with religious affiliations. I think it's a way to stay relevant without getting involved with the arms race of college football.

Notre Dame is going to ultimately have to overcome alumni objections and affiliate (Big 10?) or risk becoming irrelevant.

[VUCats02]

I'm frankly surprised that nobody on this board knows what a rebuilding year is. Nova has one bad year, and everyone expects the program is going to disappear. I'm also not quite sure that everyone understands that, even in this rebuilding year, Nova is playing their 3rd string QB who is a walk-on and without their 2 best wide receivers and without their best o-lineman. All this added to the fact that Nova lost 17 starters. Hey Delaware fans - I will take a semi-final + a national championship + a winless season for 3 years over a semi-final + 2 average years, any 3 years :)

[RichH2]

Let's be honest, the Big East in its current state is dead. If I was in charge of a non-football playing school, I'd be working the following scenario with the other presidents:

Providence
St. John's
Seton Hall
Marquette
DePaul

These five non-football schools plus Villanova and Georgetown and possibly Notre Dame if they still want to stay independent in football. Throw out an invite to Xavier and maybe Temple and definitely Butler. This results in a really solid conference made up of schools with similar missions, all known as mid-size basketball schools, many with religious affiliations. I think it's a way to stay relevant without getting involved with the arms race of college football.

A great solution methinks BE screwed up when it became a football also conference. Go back to basketball. Will miss Pitt Syracuse UCONN but I'll recover, I doubt college football , at least FBS style, will

[superman7515]

Looks like this is your answer to Villanova & Georgetown...

Big East Basketball Schools Eye Split (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/college/2011/09/19/2011-09-19_big_east_schools_eye_split.html#ixzz1YSQp3WqA)


As the fissures continue to grow in the Big East, the league's seven non-football members have decided to explore their options.

The athletic directors of St. John's, Georgetown, Seton Hall, Villanova, Providence, DePaul, Marquette and Notre Dame have scheduled a teleconference Monday to discuss the league's ever-changing status. The move follows the defections of Pittsburgh and Syracuse to the ACC, with the prospect of more losses if the SEC targets West Virginia, the ACC absorbs Connecticut and perhaps Rutgers, and TCU reconsiders its decision to join this BCS conference in 2012.

The instability has created the growing possibility that the basketball-only schools could seek a split from the football-playing schools in this massive 17-team league and put the wheels in motion to form their own Catholic league, hoping they have enough clout to negotiate a decent TV deal with ESPN.

[alvinkayak6]

Yeah, Georgetown could be a cinderella/dark horse story this year after a 10-point loss to Yale and showing promise. Maybe an 6-8 win season if some of the conference faves aren't careful.

[crusader11]

Yeah, Georgetown could be a cinderella/dark horse story this year after a 10-point loss to Yale and showing promise. Maybe an 6-8 win season if some of the conference faves aren't careful.

Agreed. They should be the favorite against Bucknell and are not all too far behind Colgate/Fordham. I think Holy Cross and Lehigh are at another level...but I thought that last year too xpissedx

[alvinkayak6]

Fordham isn't eligible to win the Patriot League I think. That's really dumb.... The Rams should throw up a big "F - U" .

[crusader11]

Fordham isn't eligible to win the Patriot League I think. That's really dumb.... The Rams should throw up a big "F - U" .

Not sure the exact number of scholarships Fordham is giving this year, but the fact they are giving any at all makes them ineligible. Truth be told, even if they were eligible they aren't good enough to win the league.

[Pard4Life]

Not sure the exact number of scholarships Fordham is giving this year, but the fact they are giving any at all makes them ineligible. Truth be told, even if they were eligible they aren't good enough to win the league.

The Pards almost knocked off the Rams last year despite their decrepit state. Fordham never hits their potential for some reason.

This might be the year the Hoyas finally nab Colgate, but forget about Lehigh and Holy Cross.

[Franks Tanks]

Not sure the exact number of scholarships Fordham is giving this year, but the fact they are giving any at all makes them ineligible. Truth be told, even if they were eligible they aren't good enough to win the league.

Very True. When a member school does not follow league policy you must do something. In addition to scholarships it appears Fordham is also not following the AI. As you say they wouldn't win the league anyway this year.

[appfan2008]

I never liked the big east or any conference where some schools play football and some dont (socon included) those 7 non football schools should branch off and do their own thing it would be best for them...

[dgtw]

I never liked the big east or any conference where some schools play football and some dont (socon included) those 7 non football schools should branch off and do their own thing it would be best for them...

I agree, I think that was part of what led to the Big East's downfall. I hate that the OVC has admitted more non-FCS scholarship football schools. Letting someone join for a minor sport just so they'll have a place to compete is one thing, but everyone needs to be on board for the two main sports or not at all.

[DFW HOYA]

I never liked the big east or any conference where some schools play football and some dont (socon included) those 7 non football schools should branch off and do their own thing it would be best for them...

When the Big East was founded, there was a strong independent tradition in Eastern college football: none of the Eastern I-A schools (Penn State, Pitt, West Virginia, Rutgers, Army, Navy, Temple, Villanova, Syracuse, Holy Cross, BC) were in a conference.

At one time just before the Big East, Penn State, Rutgers, WVU, Villanova, UMass, and Pitt were all in the Eastern 8 for basketball but no one thought to add football to the E8.

Below I-A, only UConn was in a conference (Yankee). Georgetown, St. John's and Seton Hall were all independents.


I agree, I think that was part of what led to the Big East's downfall. I hate that the OVC has admitted more non-FCS scholarship football schools. Letting someone join for a minor sport just so they'll have a place to compete is one thing, but everyone needs to be on board for the two main sports or not at all.

It is in these school's interests to stay with the I-A schools. Put another way, it is not in Georgetown and Villanova's interests to follow the likes of Providence and Seton Hall. But it's not like any conference is calling Georgetown, anyway.

[Go...gate]

When the Big East was founded (1979), there was a strong independent tradition in Eastern college football: none of the Eastern I-A schools (Penn State, Pitt, West Virginia, Rutgers, Army, Navy, Temple, Villanova, Syracuse, Holy Cross, Lafayette, Colgate, BC) were in a conference except for the Ivy League.

At one time just before the Big East, Penn State, Rutgers, WVU, Villanova, UMass, and Pitt were all in the Eastern 8 for basketball but no one thought to add football to the E8.

Below I-A, only UConn was in a conference (Yankee). Georgetown, St. John's and Seton Hall were all independents.

It is in these school's interests to stay with the I-A schools. Put another way, it is not in Georgetown and Villanova's interests to follow the likes of Providence and Seton Hall. But it's not like any conference is calling Georgetown, anyway.

A little editing was in order.

[RichH2]

BE much better off IMHO as Bball only conference. Never really succeeded , other than VaTech, in football. Go get Xavier or Butler.

[Sader87]

A little editing was in order.

Colgate was 1-A but Lafayette was D2 in 1979.

http://collegefootball.about.com/gi/o.htm?zi=1/XJ&zTi=1&sdn=collegefootball&cdn=sports&tm=5&f=10&tt=14&bt=0&bts=0&zu=http%3A//www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/

[Bogus Megapardus]

Colgate was 1-A but Lafayette was D2 in 1979.

http://collegefootball.about.com/gi/o.htm?zi=1/XJ&zTi=1&sdn=collegefootball&cdn=sports&tm=5&f=10&tt=14&bt=0&bts=0&zu=http%3A//www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/

Correct. Those couple of years in DII for Lafayette, Lehigh, Delaware, etc. in the late 70s were a mistake.

But the Pards coulda been in 1A. xnodx

[Franks Tanks]

Colgate was 1-A but Lafayette was D2 in 1979.

http://collegefootball.about.com/gi/o.htm?zi=1/XJ&zTi=1&sdn=collegefootball&cdn=sports&tm=5&f=10&tt=14&bt=0&bts=0&zu=http%3A//www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/

Lafayette was I-AA in 1979. Colgate and Holy Cross moved to I-AA in 1982 when forced by the NCAA.

Colgate's 1979 schedule per the below was very much like a current PL schedule. Also Colgate and Lafayette tied at 7 in 1979. It wasn't like Colgate was playing at a much different level.

William & Mary
Lehigh
Cornell
Yale
Holy Cross
Princeton
Columbia
Lafayette
Bucknell
Delaware

[alvinkayak6]

It's so important for conferences to be strong at the central HQ and for the universities to feel a sense of connection (stronger together than divided).

The Ivy League has done a terrific job of finding strategic partners with each other, and they aren't going anywhere alone.

I feel like Holy Cross, Villanova, Temple, Lehigh, Bucknell, Marist, Wagner, Albany, Stony Brook and more are very strong academically, but they haven't found a way to form a second "Ivy" very successfully. I am just not buying into the Patriot League with 7 football members. There is so much potential in the northeast for a second Ivy to form and never be touched.

How about: Lehigh, Lafayette, Colgate, Bucknell, Villanova, and Delaware in one division. Then the other: Wagner, Stony Brook, Holy Cross, Fordham, Albany, and Rhode Island in the other.
Just an idea -- take the 7 members ... get 12 and split into divisions. Within 15 years, you would see strong respect developing both academically and athletically.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Lafayette was I-AA in 1979. Colgate and Holy Cross moved to I-AA in 1982 when forced by the NCAA.


Right you are. The "DII years" were 1973-77. DII Lehigh could have beaten anybody during these years, and did in fact trounce Rutgers, Maine, UMass, etc. while nominally DI Holy Cross was getting clobbered by the same teams, plus Dartmouth and Boston U.

Ah, the Glory Years.

[alvinkayak6]

Boston U. Cowards without football.

[DFW HOYA]

How about: Lehigh, Lafayette, Colgate, Bucknell, Villanova, and Delaware in one division. Then the other: Wagner, Stony Brook, Holy Cross, Fordham, Albany, and Rhode Island in the other. Just an idea -- take the 7 members ... get 12 and split into divisions. Within 15 years, you would see strong respect developing both academically and athletically.

Wait, did Georgetown get sent to the Southern Conference or something?

Seriosuly, with 15 years of a conference, there are no guarantees when it comes to respect. The Big 12 is evidence of that.

[CrusaderBob]

Posted this earlier today on the HC board
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As long as we’re imagining unusual re-alignment plans, here's a crazy one that just might work predicated on that first big IF …

IF (and a very big if I know) preserving the Big East as a conference through the Catholic BB schools can't deliver the TV money, why would Villanova, Georgetown and Providence, who are competitive athletically with the remaining BE BB schools, want to continue to be with St. Johns & Seton Hall (not really academic peers), Marquette (geographically) & DePaul (academically & geographically)?

Georgetown and Fordham are in the PL for FB. Nobody seems to want to join the PL for FB because of no scholarships and the AI.

Outside of that in other sports, the biggest complaint about the PL has to do with geography and “traditional” rivals not only for HC, but schools not named Lehigh & Lafayette or Army & Navy.


So…

1. Overhaul the AI to be more flexible yet still provide institutional accountability to a league-wide standard. Picture the NCAA Qualifier, only higher as a PL Qualifier.

2. Allow football scholarships

3. Establish two 6 team divisions

4. Designate one rival within your division and one outside your division and foster those rivalries through scheduling in every sport particularly ending each season with your two rivals in every sport

Add Georgetown, Villanova, Providence & Fordham as full members to form the following 12 team Patriot League:

Patriot John Adams Division

Army
Colgate
Providence
Holy Cross
Fordham
Lafayette

Patriot Thomas Jefferson Division

Lehigh
Bucknell
American
Navy
Georgetown
Villanova

Patriot Football League

Colgate
Holy Cross
Fordham
Lafayette
Lehigh
Bucknell
Georgetown
Villanova

TEAM - Intra-Division Rival - InterDivision Rival

Army - Fordham - Navy
Colgate - Lafayette - Bucknell
Providence - HC - American
Holy Cross - PC - Villanova
Fordham - Army - Georgetown
Lafayette - Colgate - Lehigh

Lehigh - Bucknell - Lafayette
Bucknell - Lehigh - Colgate
American - Navy - Providence
Navy - American - Army
Georgetown - Villanova - Fordham
Villanova - Georgetown - Holy Cross

[alvinkayak6]

CrusaderBob, you are my hero. Send it to the Patriot League offices post haste.

[DFW HOYA]

The AI changes make this plan DOA. The PL presidents (and many of its fans) can't part with the Ivy Index.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Very impressive, CrusaderBob! xthumbsupx

Of course, Georgetown and Villanova would have to be at the point where they cried "Uncle" for this to happen for basketball. Those fans/alums would be in an uproar if their teams had to travel to Cotterell Court or Kirby Field House. As for sports other than football and basketball (lacrosse, soccer, baseball, field hockey), the Patriot already is competitive as it stands now (except for track). I assume ice hockey arrangements would remain as they are.

[CFBfan]

Very impressive, CrusaderBob! xthumbsupx

Of course, Georgetown and Villanova would have to be at the point where they cried "Uncle" for this to happen for basketball. Those fans/alums would be in an uproar if their teams had to travel to Cotterell Court or Kirby Field House. As for sports other than football and basketball (lacrosse, soccer, baseball, field hockey), the Patriot already is competitive as it stands now (except for track). I assume ice hockey arrangements would remain as they are.

and Bogie, GU still wouldn't let LC in their press box!!

[Go...gate]

Lafayette was I-AA in 1979. Colgate and Holy Cross moved to I-AA in 1982 when forced by the NCAA.

Colgate's 1979 schedule per the below was very much like a current PL schedule. Also Colgate and Lafayette tied at 7 in 1979. It wasn't like Colgate was playing at a much different level.

William & Mary 15-28 L
Lehigh 10-3 W
Cornell 21-36 L
Yale 0-27 L
Holy Cross 17-16 W
Princeton 17-6 W
Columbia 24-14 W
Lafayette 7-7 T
Bucknell 20-2 W
Delaware 16-24 L

5-4-1 as a Major Independent

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Let's get this straight. Villanova and Georgetown will be all-sports members of the Patriot League at about the same time ESPN makes me a multi-million dollar offer for me to write about Lehigh Sports for El Ocho.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

and Bogie, GU still wouldn't let LC in their press box!!

Suddenly, all this Big East talk makes it so clear why Georgetown kept Lafayette from the press box. They needed the money from Verizon! xlolx

[Go...gate]

CrusaderBob has a nice idea - would not mind having Seton Hall in there, too. Nice work.

[Go...gate]

Perhaps in deference to Lafayette, we should call the divisions the "Art Rothkopf" and "Daniel Weiss" Divisions. ; )

[Franks Tanks]

Perhaps in deference to Lafayette, we should call the divisions the "Art Rothkopf" and "Daniel Weiss" Divisions. ; )

We would also need to add American and Johns Hopkins and that would work perfectly.

[DFW HOYA]

and Bogie, GU still wouldn't let LC in their press box!!

They were in the press box.

[Bogus Megapardus]

The Georgetown press box:



http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/8893/georgetownpressbox2.jpg


Being "in" the press box is a matter of perspective.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Let's get this straight. Villanova and Georgetown will be all-sports members of the Patriot League at about the same time ESPN makes me a multi-million dollar offer for me to write about Lehigh Sports for El Ocho.

It wouldn't be a radical change for anything except basketball. And therein lies the multi-million dollar difference.

[CrusaderBob]

The AI changes make this plan DOA. The PL presidents (and many of its fans) can't part with the Ivy Index.
First, screw the Ivies. What have they ever done for any of the PL Schools??? More on that in a minute.

The AI would remain, and changes I envision would be akin to a league wide floor and based on the admissions data of each school's normal student body calibrated each year. So if 1000 SAT, 3.0 GPA represents the 10th percentile of the least selective school, that's the floor beneath which you cannot admit. The hell with the bands. If a school chooses to admit 13 BB or 70 FB players barely above that floor, that's their choice, but as I said it provides enough accountability to the league to maintain academic integrity.
The fact is at most of these schools, with up to 25% of the student body playing as varsity sport, will not be doing that in too many sports or they would great risk their overall academic profile.


Very impressive, CrusaderBob! xthumbsupx
Of course, Georgetown and Villanova would have to be at the point where they cried "Uncle" for this to happen for basketball. Those fans/alums would be in an uproar if their teams had to travel to Cotterell Court or Kirby Field House. As for sports other than football and basketball (lacrosse, soccer, baseball, field hockey), the Patriot already is competitive as it stands now (except for track). I assume ice hockey arrangements would remain as they are.

Again repeating what I said in follow-up on the HC board

1. I said it was a crazy idea
2. I said it was a BIG IF, but consider

If Georgetown is as tight on cash as has been pointed out here often on the FB Scholarship discussion and their major sources of revenue - TV $ for men's BB and NCAA Tournament $ distribution from the Big East - dries up, money worries only get worse and keeping their athletics at their current level is that much more difficult.

What do they do?

For reference from OPE as reported by Georgetown ...

Total Revenue (All teams) - $29.4 M
Total Expenses (All Teams) - 29.0 M

Total Revenue (Men’s BB) - $10.1M
Total Expense (Men’s BB) - $7.4M

http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/GetOneInstitutionData.aspx

That's gonna be a big gap to close with seriously reduced TV & tournament money. Will Xavier, Dayton, and Butler really do that much to close that gap??? How much causes them to call uncle. I couldn't say.


Let's get this straight. Villanova and Georgetown will be all-sports members of the Patriot League at about the same time ESPN makes me a multi-million dollar offer for me to write about Lehigh Sports for El Ocho.

Did I mention …

1. I said it was a crazy idea
2. I said it was a BIG IF, but consider

In writing about league expansion and/or the Academic Index, you have indicated the need for a clearly stated vision or mission for what the PL wants to be. (LFN help me out, I couldn’t find the links to your old posts)

So in that light, if I may, one more paraphrase from a post I made on the HC board

Doesn’t every president and administrator running any school, including Georgetown & Villanova want higher standards in place for their FB or BB players and more control over their athletic programs???

Well maybe presidents & administrators in the SEC don't, but everywhere else?

So why don’t they have them?

Basically all of those administrators ignore what they see as a necessary evil of compromised - often severely - standards of their FB & BB programs and would love to be able to enforce standards but cannot or choose not to because of the money involved.

To me, that's the opportunity the PL has had to differentiate itself over the last 10 years and can still capitalize on today. Not to be the Ivy League's annoying little brother tagging along looking for approval, doing everything he does, but to become a league that can consistently win at the highest level (well almost highest in FB) but do so the right way without having to make hold your nose compromises of principles and your primary mission. And some minor changes in league rules and governance (not philosophy) can make the league attractive & differentiated, and make that vision a reality.

I believe it is possible.

PS - LFN, when El Ocho launches be sure to let me know. I’ll read you!

[Bogus Megapardus]

To me, that's the opportunity the PL has had to differentiate itself over the last 10 years and can still capitalize on today. Not to be the Ivy League's annoying little brother tagging along looking for approval, doing everything he does, but to become a league that can consistently win at the highest level (well almost highest in FB) but do so the right way without having to make hold your nose compromises of principles and your primary mission. And some minor changes in league rules and governance (not philosophy) can make the league attractive & differentiated, and make that vision a reality.


I think that the America East tries to be "that conference" (Binghamton basketball not withstanding). If the AE had its wits about it, it would capitalize on this opportunity and arrange a full scholarship, limited travel northeastern football association. The PL ought not to stand idly by and allow that to happen.

Your assessment of Georgetown's balance sheet discounts the goodwill and other intangibles associated with Hoya basketball, of course. It's that goodwill that drives PL athletics to begin with. But a full scholarship PL with more realistic academic standards - consisting only of of historically well-capitalized institutions that don't really "need" the money - might be quite tempting.

Of course the PL would have to come to the realization that it is at least "sort of" in the entertainment business, but I think that's already a given. All it takes then is for the Patriot to become the least reprehensible, most face-saving alternative of those extant once the dust settles.

[dgtw]

For reference from OPE as reported by Georgetown ...

Total Revenue (All teams) - $29.4 M
Total Expenses (All Teams) - 29.0 M

Total Revenue (Men’s BB) - $10.1M
Total Expense (Men’s BB) - $7.4M



Georgetown's sports outside of men's basketball generate $19.3 million? That sounds like a lot.

[CrusaderBob]

Fixed the link above. Someone with more understanding than I will need to pick it apart.

Follow the link below and search for Georgetown and have at it.

As I said it is self reported data and there are variations in how things are accounted for from school to school.

http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/GetOneInstitutionData.aspx

[Lehigh Football Nation]

In writing about league expansion and/or the Academic Index, you have indicated the need for a clearly stated vision or mission for what the PL wants to be. (LFN help me out, I couldn’t find the links to your old posts)

From way back in 2008...

http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2008/05/patriot-league-call-to-action.html


What's needed is some vision of what the Patriot League will be in the future.

What we need is something like this:

"Patriot League athletics defines the student athlete that wants to win Division I championships and excel in the classroom and in life. Patriot League schools are seeking out the best. The best leaders of tomorrow. The best in their academic disciplines. The hardest workers. The toughest competitors. And people who want to be the best in sports and in the classroom."

The stigma that needs to be excised is that Patriot League teams don't care about championships. Until the Patriot League presidents articulate that they care about competing for NCAA championships - without compromising on academics, of course - there will always be that hesitation for an interested school in joining the Patriot league "club". A harder sell to fans.

I hate to sound like a broken record on this, but even limited scholarships in football with an academic index - putting them in line with all other sports in the Patriot League, by the way - would be a great way to demonstrate that commitment. These Amateurs will still need to excel academically - but if they're good enough and can qualify academically, they have to opportunity to have their college paid for.

And funny you should mention your Big East plan:


Speaking of Villanova, there is another league that is rumored to be potentially splitting along FBS football and basketball lines: the Big East. With sixteen teams, and eight sponsoring Big East football in the FBS (Louisville, UConn, Syracuse, West Virginia, Pitt, Cincinnati, South Florida, and Rutgers), the remaining teams (Georgetown, Villanova, St. John's, Notre Dame (an FBS independent, obviously), Marquette, Seton Hall, Providence, and DePaul) could be looking to join other conferences in sports other than basketball. Maybe these eight could be a basketball-only conference - but then these teams would need to find a conference in other sports.

Georgetown, who already has Patriot League football, would be a fantastic get. With Navy as a built-in rival and impeccable academic credentials, their presence in all sports would be a coup, bolstering lacrosse and other sports across the board. And Villanova is another. If we had the Wildcats in all sports except basketball, wouldn't they also have to say, "Well, why not join in football as well?"

The idea was to allow Georgetown and Villanova to compete in the Patriot League in all sports except basketball. Not a bad way out, especially if the long-rumored split does indeed happen, with the football schools going to other conferences and the non-football schools banding together to form their own conference. Of course, though, Villanova will never join up unless scholarships are a part of the equation, I believe.


PS - LFN, when El Ocho launches be sure to let me know. I’ll read you!

I will let you know! xlolx