NDSU Prez staying, says IA possible

[Hansel]

North Dakota State University President Joseph Chapman, surrounded by hundreds of students and others who rallied to show their support for him, said Monday that he has decided to stay at the school.
Chapman had been one of three finalists for the University of Wyoming presidency. He was scheduled to visit the Laramie campus Thursday.
Students and staff gathered at the NDSU Memorial Union on Monday morning, waving banners and yelling "Joe don't go." When Chapman left his office across the street to speak to the group, the crowd gathered around him.
"Our students are really what we're all here about," he said. "When I was sitting over visiting with (my wife) Gale in my office, I was asking, 'You know, what am I going to do?' She said, 'You've got to do what you think is right for yourself and us and for all the students.'"
"I know one thing standing here, looking out across this group ... I don't think I can go," Chapman said.
He said he planned to call the University of Wyoming to tell the school of his decision.
The crowd's chants quickly turned to "Thank you, Joe."
A Wyoming spokeswoman said the school's board of trustees would meet later this week to discuss its next move.
"It is extremely unfortunate that Dr. Chapman of North Dakota State University chose to withdraw from the University of Wyoming presidential search," board of trustees president Judy Richards said in a statement. "He is extremely qualified and would have been received well during the interview process

http://www.grandforks.com/mld/grandforks/news/14204537.htm

Joe Chapman’s abrupt announcement that he is staying as North Dakota State president was met with a sense of relief in the athletic department
Chapman worked behind the scenes at lobbying NDSU for Big Sky membership. So far, those efforts have been unsuccessful. There appears to be no public efforts to revive expansion talks in the Big Sky in the near future.
Taylor, however, believes the Big Sky is serious about moving to 12 teams. It added Northern Colorado last year, bringing the number to nine.
The presidents councils of the Big Sky and Mid-Continent conduct their annual meetings each spring. If expansion were to surface, NDSU’s chances would probably be better with Chapman in place.
“It’s very important that he stayed,” said women’s athletic director Lynn Dorn. “It’s very significant. It’s a good day for all of us.”
If the Mid-Con or Big Sky don’t work out, Chapman said he wouldn’t rule out a run at either the Western Athletic or the Mountain West conferences. Both leagues compete in Division I-A football, which carries an 85-scholarship maximum.

The Division I-AA max is 63.
“We’ll make that decision when it is appropriate,” Chapman said. “It’s fair to say we want to be at the highest level we can be at. Everything is on the table.”But Taylor said his office doesn’t spend much time on that issue.

“We’re still focusing on the Mid-Con or the Big Sky,” he said.



http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=121848&section=Sports

[TexasTerror]

Mid-Con, would that really be that beneficial for NDSU? That conference is the biggest mess in all the land. Teams thrown all over the country from Southern Utah (Cedar City, UT) to Centenary (Shreveport, LA)...

Best bet is Big Sky invite. A stable league where NDSU can compete and would benefit more from...

[GannonFan]

What's holding the Big Sky back from expanding to 12 teams now? You can easily schedule enough conference games and get at least 3 OOC games (play 8 conference games) - are they opposed to not having everyone play each other in conference? I know it was said that adding NDSU and SDSU would be a travel problem, but isn't the Big Sky fairly spread out as it is right now? The Western US is fairly expansive from what I hear. ;) Or does the Big Sky have something against adding the Dakota schools?

[OL FU]

What's holding the Big Sky back from expanding to 12 teams now? You can easily schedule enough conference games and get at least 3 OOC games (play 8 conference games) - are they opposed to not having everyone play each other in conference? I know it was said that adding NDSU and SDSU would be a travel problem, but isn't the Big Sky fairly spread out as it is right now? The Western US is fairly expansive from what I hear. ;) Or does the Big Sky have something against adding the Dakota schools?


Maybe they think 9 football team conference is just the right size, I do.

[Gil Dobie]

Maybe they think 9 football team conference is just the right size, I do.

Geography/Travel has been the constant.

[catbob]

12 teams is too many. Nine is pushing it, although I like the idea of 4 home and 4 away games.

[OL FU]

12 teams is too many. Nine is pushing it, although I like the idea of 4 home and 4 away games.

That is exactly why I like nine, makes ooc scheduling much easier also

[X-Factor]

The bottom feeders claim they don't have the budget to get their teams to Fargo, nor the teams to compete once they get there. I can't say that I disagree, but who wears the pants in the Big Sky anyway?


Or does the Big Sky have something against adding the Dakota schools?

Fear
Travel Issues
lack of progressive views

[FargoBison]

This is the last I have heard about Big Sky expansion, this was a post from the NDSU media blog in Feb.


Big Sky vibe

Spoke to Big Sky commish Doug Fullerton today. If I had any doubt about where he stands on NDSU (which I guess I didn't) I don't any more.

I don't want to overstate this, but I have a clear understanding that he wants NDSU in his conference. I've heard him say before that his job is to get the presidents to see the strengths of NDSU in a 12 team league, and he repeated that today.

He also said that he's aware that NDSU has touched base with some people in the MidCon and he said that if his presidents feel that NDSU will always be out there as an expansion option that they might be wrong someday. The RPI of the Big Sky is a big issue out there right now, and with both NDSU teams ranked in the mid 100's this season (and having been a little higher at times), they can bring some value to a conference in the near future.

I'd hardly suggest that a bidding war for NDSU is about to ensue, but count the Big Sky boss as one who believes NDSU's value is on the rise.
http://www.areavoices.com/bisonmedia/?blog=1551

I think a 12 team Big Sky is likely because 12 would create a balanced schedule for all sports and would provide Big Sky teams with 24 basketball games each year. Here is my possible new Big Sky.

East
UND
NDSU
SDSU
UNC
Montana St
Weber St

West
Montana(plays Montana State every year)
Sac St
EWU
PSU
NAU
ISU

[TexasTerror]

I think with basketball, you wouldn't do 24 Big Sky games each year. With 12 teams, you'd have 22 Big Sky games first off, but coaches won't want that. 16 or 18 conference games is more realistic. Ten against divisional foes and eight against non-divisional foes. Then you have some room for out of conference...

And the Montana-Montana St issue needs to be taken care of prior which you covered...

So Univ of North Dakota will get admission to the Big Sky and South Dakota won't? I can see that causing some issues...

[Green Cookie Monster]

It isn't travel for one game in football every other year. It is when you add tennis, volleyball, track, soccer, etc. to the travel mix. The NSDU athletic budget is in line with the so called 'bottom feeders' of the conference. La. Tech is an albatross in the WAC, same thing would be recognized if the dakotahs were added to the SKY. Both states have DECLINING population bases.

Plus, the Dakotas offer absolutely nothing in terms of other activities for visiting fans.

Stick to nine teams. Add davis and Cal Pollie if teams are needed. Plus the dakotahs are in transition until 2008 or so, they offer nothing at this point.

[FargoBison]

I think with basketball, you wouldn't do 24 Big Sky games each year. With 12 teams, you'd have 22 Big Sky games first off, but coaches won't want that. 16 or 18 conference games is more realistic. Ten against divisional foes and eight against non-divisional foes. Then you have some room for out of conference...

And the Montana-Montana St issue needs to be taken care of prior which you covered...

So Univ of North Dakota will get admission to the Big Sky and South Dakota won't? I can see that causing some issues...


I meant 22 games and Fulerton said if they go to a 12 team Big Sky the conference will play 22 conference games because it would make scheduling easier. Also South Dakota is in a tough spot money wise and probably couldn't afford to make the jump up in divisions and would be better off in D2. The difference between UND and USD is huge as far athletics go so I don't think you would see any issues as far as that goes.

[FargoBison]

It isn't travel for one game in football every other year. It is when you add tennis, volleyball, track, soccer, etc. to the travel mix. The NSDU athletic budget is in line with the so called 'bottom feeders' of the conference. La. Tech is an albatross in the WAC, same thing would be recognized if the dakotahs were added to the SKY. Both states have DECLINING population bases.

Plus, the Dakotas offer absolutely nothing in terms of other activities for visiting fans.

Stick to nine teams. Add davis and Cal Pollie if teams are needed. Plus the dakotahs are in transition until 2008 or so, they offer nothing at this point.

If you put teams in divisions the travel is pretty much the same as it is now for Sac and PSU in all sports besides football and basketball. The NDSU athletic budget will be 10 million in 2008 and I would assume that would put NDSU near the top of the conference. And NDSU offers more then nothing, why don't you listen to your Comish because he really seems to value NDSU.

“Everything about North Dakota State is exactly what the Big Sky Conference needs,” Fullerton said

Now please tell me how adding the Dakota's offers nothing because I think and many Montana and Montana St fans think they would offer quite a bit.

[Green Cookie Monster]

Needs and wants are two different words.

I said other activities. You might as well go to Mars than find entertainment other than a football game in Fargo.

Good luck with the WAC.

[Gil Dobie]

It isn't travel for one game in football every other year. It is when you add tennis, volleyball, track, soccer, etc. to the travel mix. The NSDU athletic budget is in line with the so called 'bottom feeders' of the conference. La. Tech is an albatross in the WAC, same thing would be recognized if the dakotahs were added to the SKY. Both states have DECLINING population bases.

Plus, the Dakotas offer absolutely nothing in terms of other activities for visiting fans.

Stick to nine teams. Add davis and Cal Pollie if teams are needed. Plus the dakotahs are in transition until 2008 or so, they offer nothing at this point.

Most of the population decline is in the Western parts of the states. Fargo and Sioux Falls have growing populations. Both are on the Minnesota border. Most of the grads from both schools seem to end up in Minneapolis/St Paul, just a short 3.5 hour drive for home games.

Not sure what someone from the mid-west would do in Sacramento either ;)

[FargoBison]

Needs and wants are two different words.

I said other activities. You might as well go to Mars than find entertainment other than a football game in Fargo.

Good luck with the WAC.

It seems like your comish wants NDSU in the league and so do at least half of BSC schools. Isn't the point of traveling to watch your team to play other in conference teams is to see the game? Big Sky fans wouldn't be treated to much entertainment outside of the game their teams play in Fargo but they would get to watch their teams play in great facilities against quality competition, that would be enough to make me travel to watch my team play.

[Green Cookie Monster]

Not sure what someone from the mid-west would do in Sacramento either ;)

I know you are not being serious. And you just summed up the perfect statement: mid-west

Big Sky is a western/pacific based conference.

[Gil Dobie]

I know you are not being serious. And you just summed up the perfect statement: mid-west

Big Sky is a western/pacific based conference.

......and my preferred conference choice is the Gateway, but they are not open to adding teams at the present time either. Mid-Con/Great West would be an okay situation too. :)

[grizband]

Market size could also be an issue here. Look at the last three teams that Fullerton has added to the conference:

PSU - Portland, OR
Sac St. - Sacramenton, CA
UNC - Denver, CO

The direction of the conference seems to be focused on the size of the market, whether or not that market has much of a following for the schools. I think it would be in everyone's best interest in both NDSU and SDSU were allowed into the Sky.

[DaBears]

Needs and wants are two different words.

I said other activities. You might as well go to Mars than find entertainment other than a football game in Fargo.

Good luck with the WAC.

Not that I like defending NDSU but what do you do in any town after a game? I personally look for places to continue drinking because I have been drinking all day while watching the game.

I have been to Fargo and I went to several bars while I was there. the liquor was good and the women were hot. What more do you need than that?

As for the night before the game--well, I like to drink . . .

I like seeing the NDSU fans squirm for now but I think NDSU is a good fit for the BSC and I hope they get in.

[Hansel]

It isn't travel for one game in football every other year. It is when you add tennis, volleyball, track, soccer, etc. to the travel mix. The NSDU athletic budget is in line with the so called 'bottom feeders' of the conference. La. Tech is an albatross in the WAC, same thing would be recognized if the dakotahs were added to the SKY. Both states have DECLINING population bases.

Plus, the Dakotas offer absolutely nothing in terms of other activities for visiting fans.

Stick to nine teams. Add davis and Cal Pollie if teams are needed. Plus the dakotahs are in transition until 2008 or so, they offer nothing at this point.
Actually, according to the latest numbers the population of neither state is declining

nice to have you back Dorothy ;)

[Green Cookie Monster]

Actually, according to the latest numbers the population of neither state is declining

nice to have you back Dorothy ;)

2005 2000 1990
Population 636,677 642,200 638,800

Source: U.S. Census Bureau, 2005 Population Estimates, Census 2000, 1990 Census

huh?

[Gil Dobie]

2005 2000 1990
Population 636,677 642,200 638,800

Source: U.S. Census Bureau, 2005 Population Estimates, Census 2000, 1990 Census

huh?

What does it say for Fargo? :)

[dbackjon]

What does it say for Fargo? :)

Census Bureau rates Movies? :confused:

[FargoBison]

2005 2000 1990
Population 636,677 642,200 638,800

Source: U.S. Census Bureau, 2005 Population Estimates, Census 2000, 1990 Census

huh?

ND estimated population July 1, 2004- 636,308
ND estimated population July 1, 2005- 636,677
http://www.census.gov/popest/counties/tables/CO-EST2005-01-38.csv
Not anything big but it is growth.

As for Fargo I think the metro area grew by several thousand people this past year.

[griz8791]

Count me among the Montana fans who think the Big Sky ought to grab NDSU now while the grabbing is still good.

What I think I see when I look at NDSU is an athletic program that is essentially the only game in town in its market area. If you take Northern Colorado as an example, that is a "bigger" market where I assume the vast majority of people in the "market" could hardly care less about UNC athletics. I just don't see how it helps the Big Sky to be in huge markets where nobody cares. I think the same problem applies to Sacramento and Portland. This is why quoting census figures emphasizing the sparse population of the Dakotas leaves me unimpressed. I, too, live in flyover country yet the Griz still seem to pack 'em into the stands.

It won't be long until NDSU is playoff eligible. If they get a home game I doubt there would be an empty seat in the Fargo Dome. Can we say the same about UNC, Sac State, and PSU? Full stadiums look good on TV and at least potentially force the big-media commentators to choke back their anti-IAA bias.

[crunifan]

I would think NDSU and SDSU would fit better in the Gateway than the Big Sky, but that is just me.

Plus, it would be cool to have NDSU and SDSU meet up with their old conference mate UNI! :)

[slostang]

I think with basketball, you wouldn't do 24 Big Sky games each year. With 12 teams, you'd have 22 Big Sky games first off, but coaches won't want that. 16 or 18 conference games is more realistic. Ten against divisional foes and eight against non-divisional foes. Then you have some room for out of conference...

And the Montana-Montana St issue needs to be taken care of prior which you covered...

So Univ of North Dakota will get admission to the Big Sky and South Dakota won't? I can see that causing some issues...
If they take NDSU and SDSU, then they could add Cal Poly as an football affiliate and the basketball teams would not have to worry about an exta two games each year from the 12th member.

[Tod]

If they take NDSU and SDSU, then they could add Cal Poly as an football affiliate and the basketball teams would not have to worry about an exta two games each year from the 12th member.

I don't believe (somebody back me up) that the Big Sky allows that. It's all sports or nothing.

[blukeys]

I don't believe (somebody back me up) that the Big Sky allows that. It's all sports or nothing.


Time to change the rules. NDSU adds much to the Big Sky. :nod: :nod:

[Tod]

Time to change the rules. NDSU adds much to the Big Sky. :nod: :nod:

I agree 100%. I was referring to having Cal-Poly as football only. I don't believe that will fly.

I want NDSU and SDSU, and any other strong, all-sports program, to make that twelve team conference. I think that would be a good thing, but I have to wonder what would happen to the few teams left out.

The west is sparsely populated, and has minimal I-AA representation. I'd like to see all of the I-AA teams in a good position to go the direction they want, whatever it is.

[Poly Pigskin]

I agree 100%. I was referring to having Cal-Poly as football only. I don't believe that will fly.

I want NDSU and SDSU, and any other strong, all-sports program, to make that twelve team conference. I think that would be a good thing, but I have to wonder what would happen to the few teams left out.

The west is sparsely populated, and has minimal I-AA representation. I'd like to see all of the I-AA teams in a good position to go the direction they want, whatever it is.

I know this will never happen, but I would love to see us compete in the BSC for football only. I wouldn't even mind seeing the move for most sports, but there are a select few like baseball and track and field where the step down in competition would just be too big. Other sports like basketball (men's and women's) would be much better suited at that level though.

Oh well, looks like we'll just have to tough it out as independents again if the Dakotas move. I certainly wouldn't blame them for moving to a permanent home. But talking about, or even mentioning I-A is a little premature, especially when they aren't fully transitioned from DII.

[AmsterBison]

If securing a conference for 15 other sports means that football has to go DI-A, NDSU would really have to consider doing it. Of course, that assumes that it's even a possibility. It's one thing to be willing to join the WAC or Mountain West, but it's another thing entirely to get extended an invitation :)

[ncbears]

If securing a conference for 15 other sports means that football has to go DI-A, NDSU would really have to consider doing it. Of course, that assumes that it's even a possibility. It's one thing to be willing to join the WAC or Mountain West, but it's another thing entirely to get extended an invitation :)


I would have to agree Amsterbison. No offense to the Bison, but I would think their might be some other more established 1AA programs would more likely get an invite from a 1A conference such as the WAC or MWC.

[slostang]

I agree 100%. I was referring to having Cal-Poly as football only. I don't believe that will fly.

I want NDSU and SDSU, and any other strong, all-sports program, to make that twelve team conference. I think that would be a good thing, but I have to wonder what would happen to the few teams left out.

The west is sparsely populated, and has minimal I-AA representation. I'd like to see all of the I-AA teams in a good position to go the direction they want, whatever it is.
I agree with bluekeys, it is time to change the rules. The Big Sky football coaches want a 12 team conference and the basketball coaches do not. Adding Cal Poly as a football only member would seem to make both coaches happy and give Cal Poly a great home for football and I believe add a quality team to the Big Sky. Cal Poly went 5-1 last year against the Big Sky last year with wins over all three co-champions (MSU, UM and EWU).

As for Cal Poly becoming a full member, it will never happen. Cal Poly has I believe 19 sports and now. The Big West is an all California conference, all the trips are bus rides. The travel expense in the Big Sky would kill the budget not to mention the Big Sky does not have baseball or softball which are two of the more sucessful programs at Cal Poly.

I would love to see Cal Poly in the Big Sky for football and I think it makes sense.

[DaBears]

If they get a home game I doubt there would be an empty seat in the Fargo Dome. Can we say the same about UNC, Sac State, and PSU? Full stadiums look good on TV and at least potentially force the big-media commentators to choke back their anti-IAA bias.

Actually, yes you can say the same about UNC. Even with the horrid season we had we still set attendance records. If we actually have a good team we will pack em in.

[ncbears]

Actually, yes you can say the same about UNC. Even with the horrid season we had we still set attendance records. If we actually have a good team we will pack em in.


Griz8791 is probably another ignorant fan. He's probably calling for SDSU thinking their a better fit for the Big Sky. SDSU has a 16,000 seat stadium and they averaged 6,000 or maybe 7,000 fans last season. Including just over a 1,000 for the UNC game. That's over a half empty stadium. UNC had decent numbers watching a losing team. Atleast we can fill our stadium.

[RabidRabbit]

Who would like to CREATE A STRONG ALL-SPORTS Conference in the WEST to push if not EXCEED the Big SKY?

Looking for schools with strong FOOTBALL, competetive Basketball, Baseball, Wrestling, with swimming, X-country, in/out track

Gee, NDSU, SDSU, UC-Davis, Cal Poly, NoColo, maybe UNI who else fits this? Even SUU has all but wrestling.

[griz8791]

. . . Count me among the Montana fans who think the Big Sky ought to grab NDSU . . . What I think I see when I look at NDSU . . . It won't be long until NDSU is playoff eligible. If they get a home game I doubt there would be an empty seat in the Fargo Dome . . .


Griz8791 is probably another ignorant fan. He's probably calling for SDSU thinking their a better fit for the Big Sky. SDSU has a 16,000 seat stadium and they averaged 6,000 or maybe 7,000 fans last season. Including just over a 1,000 for the UNC game. That's over a half empty stadium. UNC had decent numbers watching a losing team. Atleast we can fill our stadium.

Definitely ignorant, but also open to education. I am sorry if I pissed you off. How does UNC's 2005 attendance compare with NORTH Dakota State's?

[griz8791]

UNC 2005 Average: 7510 (88.35% of "accum percent capacity")
NDSU 2005 Average: 14,160 (75.72% of "accum percent capacity")
SDSU 2005 Average: 6934 (43.34% of "accum percent capacity")

See http://web1.ncaa.org/d1mfb/2005/Internet/attendance/IAA_AVGATTENDANCE.pdf

I assume "accum percent capacity" roughly measures average attendance against stadium capacity. If so, UNC was closer to filling their place than NDSU or SDSU, but NDSU had more bodies in the bleachers.

In this document the NCAA lists UNC, NDSU, and SDSU among 5 "reclassifying" schools and reports their numbers separately from the rest of I-AA. If we disregard that distinction, NDSU would have ranked 14th out of 142 I-AA schools in average attendance per game, just a sliver ahead of Montana State. UNC and SDSU would have been 53rd and 65th, respectively.

It is a credit to UNC to average 88.35 percent of capacity in what you have described as a down year.

Apologies again if I annoyed you. I am not one of the many Griz fans who goes on message boards looking to kick sand on anyone else's program.

[DaBears]

UNC 2005 Average: 7510 (88.35% of "accum percent capacity")
NDSU 2005 Average: 14,160 (75.72% of "accum percent capacity")
SDSU 2005 Average: 6934 (43.34% of "accum percent capacity")

See http://web1.ncaa.org/d1mfb/2005/Internet/attendance/IAA_AVGATTENDANCE.pdf

I assume "accum percent capacity" roughly measures average attendance against stadium capacity. If so, UNC was closer to filling their place than NDSU or SDSU, but NDSU had more bodies in the bleachers.

In this document the NCAA lists UNC, NDSU, and SDSU among 5 "reclassifying" schools and reports their numbers separately from the rest of I-AA. If we disregard that distinction, NDSU would have ranked 14th out of 142 I-AA schools in average attendance per game, just a sliver ahead of Montana State. UNC and SDSU would have been 53rd and 65th, respectively.

It is a credit to UNC to average 88.35 percent of capacity in what you have described as a down year.

Apologies again if I annoyed you. I am not one of the many Griz fans who goes on message boards looking to kick sand on anyone else's program.

I appreciate the info Griz. It is interesting to see where the transitional schools stack up attendancewise. For NDSU to be 14th at this point is a credit to them and I don't think there is any way the BSC can deny their worth. maybe the reason that UNC gained membership and NDSU did not is that UNC is one year ahead in the transition in which case they'll gain admission next year.

[griz8791]

I will be the first to admit that my own mushy thinking is a large part of the reason I want to admit these schools to the Big Sky. I am certain they should be in I-AA. They did the right thing by moving up. I don't think it is right for my conference to "reward" them for doing the right thing by giving them the cold shoulder now that they're I-AA.

I know this isn't the kind of hard-headed dollars and cents thinking that made America great, but I can't help it.

[DaBears]

I will be the first to admit that my own mushy thinking is a large part of the reason I want to admit these schools to the Big Sky. I am certain they should be in I-AA. They did the right thing by moving up. I don't think it is right for my conference to "reward" them for doing the right thing by giving them the cold shoulder now that they're I-AA.

I know this isn't the kind of hard-headed dollars and cents thinking that made America great, but I can't help it.

I agree, however UND is a different story. I have seen a lot of speculation that the BSC will move to 12 teams with one being UND. I don't think they should be given an invitation when they haven't even made the committment to move up.

[WYOBISONMAN]

I appreciate the info Griz. It is interesting to see where the transitional schools stack up attendancewise. For NDSU to be 14th at this point is a credit to them and I don't think there is any way the BSC can deny their worth. maybe the reason that UNC gained membership and NDSU did not is that UNC is one year ahead in the transition in which case they'll gain admission next year.

I suspect that came into major play during the decision process. Also, I would suspect the addition of UNC to the Sky will give NDSU another favorable vote on conference affiliation.