Goodbye Fighting Sioux nickname....this time for good!!

[darell1976]

http://www.wdaz.com/event/article/id/10007/


State legislators and University of North Dakota officials are preparing to change the school's Fighting Sioux nickname following a meeting at NCAA headquarters.


Dalrymple says he will introduce a bill Nov. 7 transferring authority of the nickname and logo back to the school. Earlier this year, the state legislature passed a law requiring the school to use its current nickname and logo.

It was a good 80 years...now its time to retire.:(

[49RFootballNow]

So, what mascot will ND use?

[frozennorth]

it's gonna be nice to not have to hear about his any more.

[frozennorth]

So, what mascot will ND use?

it's probably going to be something related to killing bison, and/or roughrider/norwegian related.

[darell1976]

it's gonna be nice to not have to hear about his any more.

I agree. UND could have been close to a new name if Al Carlson didn't come up with this state law crap and waste taxpayers time and money where it could have been needed the most....flooding. As for now UND will just be UND with the interlocking ND as their logo until a new name is chosen. From an Indian nickname to just an Indian state name.

[citdog]

Sad to see another icon fall to political correctness and traitorous actions in the name of expediency.

[49RFootballNow]

How about The Fighting Sues and replace the Indian head with an angry old lady's head?

[kperk014]

How about The Fighting Sues and replace the Indian head with an angry old lady's head?

xthumbsupx

[kperk014]

Yes it's so sad some people have to be so stupid and yes I mean whoever speaks for the Sioux.

[lionsrking2]

I say go without a nickname...then you would be known North Dakota, formerly known as the Fighting Sioux. What would happen is a lot of media and fans would still use Sioux, for lack of anything else. You simply wouldn't use it on anything official.

[chattanoogamocs]

How about The Fighting Sues and replace the Indian head with an angry old lady's head?

I was literally going to post the same thing (except the women was flipping a bird at the NCAA)

[darell1976]

http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/212620/


He said he will ask legislative leaders to introduce legislation during the special session scheduled for November to delegate the issue back to the state board. He said that legislation “probably will also require an affirmative vote by directors of the UND Alumni Association.” One concession that the NCAA leaders made, according to Dalrymple, was that “they will communicate with members that UND is in the process of retiring the logo, and they should take that into account in any scheduling decisions they make.”


However...Bob Williams, an NCAA communications vice president, said afterwards that North Dakota officials “made it clear they were committed to changing the legislative action that required retention of the Fighting Sioux name and logo.”

In the meantime, he said, ”our settlement remains in effect, and the University of North Dakota is subject to the policy. The Fighting Sioux nickname and logo will be dropped, and until such time as it is, the University of North Dakota is subject to the policy.”

UND will be on the H&A list from August 15th until at least Nov. 7th. But shouldn't hold any problems as UND will not be in any playoffs nor will their membership in the Big Sky be compromised in any way. Also it means that Minnesota can schedule UND in football or basketball without any policy problems.

[DFW HOYA]

People should ignore it and call them exactly what they want. What's ND going to do about it, anyway?

[TheRevSFA]

You can just pull a Prince move

http://blogs.eveningsun.com/sportingword/artist%20formerly%20known%20as%20prince.jpg

[bojeta]

Slap em all in the face and go by The Fighting Nameless Ones!!!!

Your logo could be a big ? on the side of your helmets!!

[kperk014]

How about the Fighting Xuois? Let'em pull their hair out over that one!

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Yes it's so sad some people have to be so stupid and yes I mean whoever speaks for the Sioux.

No sense coming down on the Native Americans here. I didn't see anything that showed they were for this either it's just a bunch of pussies trying to be overly sensitive on another groups behalf.

Not a big deal I guess but it's just disheartening to see a group of formerly rugged individuals turn into a bunch of liberal minded sissies and cave to the other groups of liberal minded PC pussies.

[citdog]

The Cavalry


Or


Smallpox Infested Blankets



Been saying it for years

[kperk014]

No sense coming down on the Native Americans here. I didn't see anything that showed they were for this either it's just a bunch of pussies trying to be overly sensitive on another groups behalf.

Not a big deal I guess but it's just disheartening to see a group of formerly rugged individuals turn into a bunch of liberal minded sissies and cave to the other groups of liberal minded PC pussies.

If they didn't, my sincere apologies. Yes this country has lost it's backbone. They call themselves progressives now. Before that they were liberals and before that they called themselves communists. Maybe THEY should pick a name and stick to it.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Yep. Saw yesterday that some students were suing the school for using the nickname. Kind of a shame. The United States' obsession with politcal correctness is nauseating. Anyone can get offended by anything anymore.


If they didn't, my sincere apologies. Yes this country has lost it's backbone. They call themselves progressives now. Before that they were liberals and before that they called themselves communists. Maybe THEY should pick a name and stick to it.

Agreed on both counts. Here's something I've noticed just on this board as a microcosm of society in general.

When a post is reported as being "offending" in some way it is almost never reported by the guy that was being "attacked". It is reported by some other dude that is not involved in the discussion or argument. The dude that is being stuck up for is actually refuting or combating the guy that made the offensive post and showing that he can handle the situation on his own. In spite of that there is some other full grown man thinking he needs to help some dude that he doesn't know a thing about out.

To me there would be nothing more offensive than having another fella think that I needed him to take up my battle for me.

Just enlarge that small snapshot and it pretty much covers society in America as a whole these days.

Oh well, it's over now and a vocal minority wins because of a lack of the previously pointed out back bone material.

[Skjellyfetti]

Good. Now they can go back to their orignal nickname - "The Flickertails"

[dgtw]

So if they wanted to call themselves the Negros and have some sort of Steppin Fetchitt mascot, would that be a problem? Or if a school wanted to call themselves the Fighting Mormons and have a mascot with ten wives, would that bother you, Tennesse Boy?

[ursus arctos horribilis]

So if they wanted to call themselves the Negros and have some sort of Steppin Fetchitt mascot, would that be a problem? Or if a school wanted to call themselves the Fighting Mormons and have a mascot with ten wives, would that bother you, Tennesse Boy?

Trying to twist this are we? We've been over this aspect and your point doesn't hold water because you are coming at it as it ND chose this mascot/name to dishonor the Sioux and if you believe that then we've got a **** load of towns to start renaming.

Now if we were talking about the Washington Redskins I'd give you the point but we are not so drop the drama cuz it doesn't work in this instance and you're gonna walk away with a sore *** as many before you trying that tact have done.

Fighting Irish and all that.

[dgtw]

I was just playing devil's advocate. I really don't see a problem with teams named after various tribes. My favorite baseball team is the Braves.

I agree it is silly Native americans can't be used when we have Vikings, Irish, etc.

[kperk014]

Heck I would like it if there was a team called the Chickasaws. Of course that doesn't roll off the tongue as well as some.

[TheBisonator]

I knew that liberals would end up being the punching bag in this thread. I have yet to read a thread on this topic on any forum on the internet without at least two people blaming this kind of thing on "liberals".

NOTE: It's not "liberals" you should be directing your anger towards. There are too many political strata in society for problems to be directed on a group that at least half of America associates themselves with.

[Skjellyfetti]

I knew that liberals would end up being the punching bag in this thread. I have yet to read a thread on this topic on any forum on the internet without at least two people blaming this kind of thing on "liberals".

NOTE: It's not "liberals" you should be directing your anger towards. There are too many political strata in society for problems to be directed on a group that at least half of America associates themselves with.

good post.

[The Eagle's Cliff]

I knew that liberals would end up being the punching bag in this thread. I have yet to read a thread on this topic on any forum on the internet without at least two people blaming this kind of thing on "liberals".

NOTE: It's not "liberals" you should be directing your anger towards. There are too many political strata in society for problems to be directed on a group that at least half of America associates themselves with.

We could have a long discussion about the word "Liberal". The 2011 definition in the US most often refers to the political left-wing: Pro-Abortion (choice), Anti-Death Penalty, Pro United Nations, Anti-Nationalist, Anti-Corporate, Anti-Gun, Anti-Judeo-Christian Religion, Pro Wealth Redistribution.

Liberals use words like "investment" when the mean "tax and spend"; euphemisms like "rich pay fair share" when referring to the redistribution of wealth by government from those who work to those who can't, don't, or won't. Liberals pretend to want equality, but want to make sure the government categorizes everyone by race, gender, and sexual orientation.

Liberals are not liberal at all. The true liberal advocates Liberty endowed by a Creator. The New Liberal believes The State or the Collective know what's best and should therefore make decisions for everyone. New Liberals are "Statists", which is basically Fascism for the chic.

Note: Liberals would find themselves agreeing more with Mao Zedong and Joseph Stalin than with James Madison and Alexander Hamilton.

[Skjellyfetti]

Note: Liberals would find themselves agreeing more with Mao Zedong and Joseph Stalin than with James Madison and Alexander Hamilton.

This kind of bull**** is what's wrong with politics today. Villifying everyone who doesn't agree with you. If you're a liberal you're Stalin and Mao. If you're a conservative you're Hitler or Mussolini. Etc. xsmhx

xbangx

[ursus arctos horribilis]

This kind of bull**** is what's wrong with politics today. Villifying everyone who doesn't agree with you. If you're a liberal you're Stalin and Mao. If you're a conservative you're Hitler or Mussolini. Etc. xsmhx

xbangx

Hey skelly, I threw that out there in the first post just to drum up some of the left leaners that usually support this sort of thing but I know that is a small fraction of democrats that use these sorts of things as a big divider in their own right of both sides.

I honestly could not agree more with your last post.

[DJKyR0]

No sense coming down on the Native Americans here.

Unfortunately nickname supporters aren't exactly notorious for letting common sense guide their actions.

[kperk014]

We could have a long discussion about the word "Liberal". The 2011 definition in the US most often refers to the political left-wing: Pro-Abortion (choice), Anti-Death Penalty, Pro United Nations, Anti-Nationalist, Anti-Corporate, Anti-Gun, Anti-Judeo-Christian Religion, Pro Wealth Redistribution.

Liberals use words like "investment" when the mean "tax and spend"; euphemisms like "rich pay fair share" when referring to the redistribution of wealth by government from those who work to those who can't, don't, or won't. Liberals pretend to want equality, but want to make sure the government categorizes everyone by race, gender, and sexual orientation.

Liberals are not liberal at all. The true liberal advocates Liberty endowed by a Creator. The New Liberal believes The State or the Collective know what's best and should therefore make decisions for everyone. New Liberals are "Statists", which is basically Fascism for the chic.

Note: Liberals would find themselves agreeing more with Mao Zedong and Joseph Stalin than with James Madison and Alexander Hamilton.

You're right. Today's libs are nothing more than communists. If you aren't a communist then you are not a lib as it has become. Case in point. My sisters say they are liberals but they complain about the 40 million people laying around on their butts living off of our taxes. They wonder why we have to control OUR spending but the government doesn't. Things like that. Today's liberal thinks there isn't one thing wrong with either of those. They scream about free speech but if you try to speak out as a Conservative on most college campuses, chances are those freedom of speech people will have you expelled. communism at it's finest.

[kperk014]

Unfortunately nickname supporters aren't exactly notorious for letting common sense guide their actions.

Neither are people who make posts like this.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Unfortunately nickname supporters aren't exactly notorious for letting common sense guide their actions.

Well, to tell you how that applies to both sides I was actually pointing that statement at some NDSU fans that I've seen suddenly acting like this was an issue that they really cared about now that it serves whatever petty interest they have in it is served.

[TheBisonator]

You're right. Today's libs are nothing more than communists. If you aren't a communist then you are not a lib as it has become. They scream about free speech but if you try to speak out as a Conservative on most college campuses, chances are those freedom of speech people will have you expelled. communism at it's finest.

I'm a moderate liberal. And I hate communism.

There's a disconnect, you see?

[DJKyR0]

Neither are people who make posts like this.

Just saying. How many comments regarding Native Americans "enjoying the free education" or the famous "shut up and be honored already?" For those who haven't seen it, six UND students filed a lawsuit with the university over the use of the name. Parts 28-42 have been pretty interesting: http://legacy.inforum.com/pdfs/Complaint%20and%20Jury%20Trial%20Demand_cc%20Clerk %20of%20Court.pdf

Moreover, the nickname itself. Kinda sucks seeing my tax dollars go to work defending a nickname I don't care about, but it's an extra kick in the teeth when they decide to finance it to support frivolous lawsuits and trips to Indianapolis to lobby for a lost cause. Now they're citing information they "recently learned" that I and others have been predicting for months regarding the damage this could do to UND?

This is no one politician's fault. This could all have been avoided if the emotional knee-jerk hadn't come in the form of Roebuck (UND WBB coach) and Hakstol (Hockey coach/UND god) hadn't deviated from the administration and let the dice fall where they may. Instead, they riled up the hornets nest and the public support was what pushed this through. It was UND fans who made their bed, and now they get to lie in it.

The NCAA's willingness to push the "in the process of retiring the nickname" line is a godsend for UND fans. They could just as easily have pushed the signed agreement from the 2000's onto the table and said "Send in the next appointment."


Well, to tell you how that applies to both sides I was actually pointing that statement at some NDSU fans that I've seen suddenly acting like this was an issue that they really cared about now that it serves whatever petty interest they have in it is served.

I have no problem admitting that this whole debacle is relevant to me. While the UND supporters will be quick to chime in with the "YOU HAVEN'T MOVED ON!!!" routine, I'm a lifelong ND resident and my tax dollars are the ones being flushed down the toilet. I'm certainly not dancing on the nickname's grave as I recognize the place it has in North Dakota history for good or bad, but when faced with the potential loss of conference affiliation, which would have all but destroyed athletics at UND, the choice in this should've been clear a year ago. Instead we have the song and dance of the last six months to have entertained us.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Just saying. How many comments regarding Native Americans "enjoying the free education" or the famous "shut up and be honored already?" For those who haven't seen it, six UND students filed a lawsuit with the university over the use of the name. Parts 28-42 have been pretty interesting: http://legacy.inforum.com/pdfs/Complaint%20and%20Jury%20Trial%20Demand_cc%20Clerk %20of%20Court.pdf

Moreover, the nickname itself. Kinda sucks seeing my tax dollars go to work defending a nickname I don't care about, but it's an extra kick in the teeth when they decide to finance it to support frivolous lawsuits and trips to Indianapolis to lobby for a lost cause. Now they're citing information they "recently learned" that I and others have been predicting for months regarding the damage this could do to UND?

This is no one politician's fault. This could all have been avoided if the emotional knee-jerk hadn't come in the form of Roebuck (UND WBB coach) and Hakstol (Hockey coach/UND god) hadn't deviated from the administration and let the dice fall where they may. Instead, they riled up the hornets nest and the public support was what pushed this through. It was UND fans who made their bed, and now they get to lie in it.

The NCAA's willingness to push the "in the process of retiring the nickname" line is a godsend for UND fans. They could just as easily have pushed the signed agreement from the 2000's onto the table and said "Send in the next appointment."



I have no problem admitting that this whole debacle is relevant to me. While the UND supporters will be quick to chime in with the "YOU HAVEN'T MOVED ON!!!" routine, I'm a lifelong ND resident and my tax dollars are the ones being flushed down the toilet. I'm certainly not dancing on the nickname's grade as I recognize the place it has in North Dakota history for good or bad, but when faced with the potential loss of conference affiliation, which would have all but destroyed athletics at UND, the choice in this should've been clear a year ago. Instead we have the song and dance of the last six months to have entertained us.

No contest with the rest of your post because it's at that stage now because people didn't just say "shut the **** up with you BS" when this all got rolling a long time ago...not just in ND but all over America.

But for a prime example of the minority or the few making noise and people caving take a look at what you posted there...six people.

[kperk014]

I'm a moderate liberal. And I hate communism.

There's a disconnect, you see?

Then people like you no longer fit into what has become of mainstream liberalism so don't be offended at what I say. You KNOW the kind of people I'm referring to.

[Grizo406]

Go f#ck yourself.

Looks like you REALLY are following the first 6 words of your sig line with that comment, huh?!!?

[citdog]

There are principles worth fighting for that even if you know you can't win make the fight no less necessary or honorable. Southron's will know what I mean.

[DJKyR0]

There are principles worth fighting for that even if you know you can't win make the fight no less necessary or honorable. Southron's will know what I mean.

I can appreciate that kind of attitude. Just don't do it on my dime for something I don't believe in. For example, what if the state of South Carolina wanted to sponsor a bronze statue immortalizing Robert E. Lee's surrender to Ulysses S. Grant in the state capitol and on taxpayer dime? You'd be a bit miffed, no?

[bojeta]

Trying to twist this are we? We've been over this aspect and your point doesn't hold water because you are coming at it as it ND chose this mascot/name to dishonor the Sioux and if you believe that then we've got a **** load of towns to start renaming.

Now if we were talking about the Washington Redskins I'd give you the point but we are not so drop the drama cuz it doesn't work in this instance and you're gonna walk away with a sore *** as many before you trying that tact have done.

Fighting Irish and all that.

EXACTLY!! As far as I could see, UND was paying the highest respect to the Sioux Nation. All reference to the contrary is self serving. BTW, being of Scottish and Irish ancestry, my favorite mascots are: Granada Hills Highlanders (fighting Scott for mascot) and Notre Dame's Fighting Irish. Both depict my Celtic heritage well.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

EXACTLY!! As far as I could see, UND was paying the highest respect to the Sioux Nation. All reference to the contrary is self serving. BTW, being of Scottish and Irish ancestry, my favorite mascots are: Granada Hills Highlanders (fighting Scott for mascot) and Notre Dame's Fighting Irish. Both depict my Celtic heritage well.

Yes, to try and spin that any other way is absurd but I've seen it done in the past. When you put the word "Fighting" in front of a culture it always means "tread carefully with these people because they will hold your feet to the fire if you **** with them."

That is purely respectful and honorable in my book but I'm not a pinko.xlolx

[citdog]

I can appreciate that kind of attitude. Just don't do it on my dime for something I don't believe in. For example, what if the state of South Carolina wanted to sponsor a bronze statue immortalizing Robert E. Lee's surrender to Ulysses S. Grant in the state capitol and on taxpayer dime? You'd be a bit miffed, no?

Not at all. As long as it was worded like this



"After four years of forcing the yankee and his hirelings to fly ingloriously from the battlefield and after writing their name so high on the roll of honor and valor that nothing can ever tarnish its luminousity this statue is dedicated to his devotion to duty and his not giving up the fight until exhausting himself and his resources in whipping the accursed yankee invader."

[JSUBison]

So, what mascot will ND use?

Fire trucks

[49RFootballNow]

I think UND should go full-tilt on the new mascot:

The North Dakota Fighting Abortionists

[darell1976]

My whole problem is this: If we had the same settlement (one tribal approval) like Central Michigan, FSU, and Utah this would be over and UND would still be the Sioux. This whole thing is a slap in the face to the Spirit Lake Sioux nation a tribe only 80 miles from Grand Forks who supported a name, and the other Sioux tribe who is mostly in South Dakota with an exception of those who live in "SIOUX COUNTY, ND" who can't get a tribe wide vote because the tribal council knows they would vote in favor of the name. Well its over and time to move on.

[CrazyCat]

Yes it sucks but UND has had since 2006 to do whatever it might have took to get whatever tribes to vote for the nickname. The blame and the slap in the face goes to UND.

[ncbears]

There are principles worth fighting for that even if you know you can't win make the fight no less necessary or honorable. Southron's will know what I mean.

Shut it you neo-confederate.

[citdog]

My whole problem is this: If we had the same settlement (one tribal approval) like Central Michigan, FSU, and Utah this would be over and UND would still be the Sioux. This whole thing is a slap in the face to the Spirit Lake Sioux nation a tribe only 80 miles from Grand Forks who supported a name, and the other Sioux tribe who is mostly in South Dakota with an exception of those who live in "SIOUX COUNTY, ND" who can't get a tribe wide vote because the tribal council knows they would vote in favor of the name. Well its over and time to move on.


I have no understanding of you as another living creature. HOW in the HELL can you lose something that was supposedly important to you and just shrug your mother****ing shoulders and say "oh well it's over time to move on"?????????????? HOLD A ****ING GRUDGE FOR AT LEAST 5 GODDAMN MINUTES! If not 150 years.


Homo

[Tod]

My whole problem is this: If we had the same settlement (one tribal approval) like Central Michigan, FSU, and Utah this would be over and UND would still be the Sioux. This whole thing is a slap in the face to the Spirit Lake Sioux nation a tribe only 80 miles from Grand Forks who supported a name, and the other Sioux tribe who is mostly in South Dakota with an exception of those who live in "SIOUX COUNTY, ND" who can't get a tribe wide vote because the tribal council knows they would vote in favor of the name. Well its over and time to move on.

How about the UND Spirit(s)? Too much? You could still pay homage to that particular tribe without being blatantly obvious. It would also be unique.

We got spirit, yes we do!

People will probably hate that as much as they hated Hofstra Pride, though I thought it was awesome.

[SDFS]

This is no one politician's fault. This could all have been avoided if the emotional knee-jerk hadn't come in the form of Roebuck (UND WBB coach) and Hakstol (Hockey coach/UND god) hadn't deviated from the administration and let the dice fall where they may. Instead, they riled up the hornets nest and the public support was what pushed this through. It was UND fans who made their bed, and now they get to lie in it.


So, Al Carlson had nothing to do with this and it was all a hockey coach and a womens basketball coach? Representative Carlson in the Republican majority leader in the North Dakota House. UND lobbied very hard against the legislation and the vast majority of GF area legislators voted against the bill. Carlson is playing games with the North Dakota State Board of Higher Education (NDSBHE) and has been working to eliminate the board or minimize its power since the Chapman/Potts fight several years ago. Here is another bill introduced this year by Carlson to minimize the Chancellor's role. I see a trend ... it has nothing to do with a hockey coach or basketball coach - one persons agenda.

http://www.minotdailynews.com/page/content.detail/id/553267/Carlson-s-tiresome-tactics.html?nav=5614

[SDFS]

My whole problem is this: If we had the same settlement (one tribal approval) like Central Michigan, FSU, and Utah this would be over and UND would still be the Sioux. This whole thing is a slap in the face to the Spirit Lake Sioux nation a tribe only 80 miles from Grand Forks who supported a name, and the other Sioux tribe who is mostly in South Dakota with an exception of those who live in "SIOUX COUNTY, ND" who can't get a tribe wide vote because the tribal council knows they would vote in favor of the name. Well its over and time to move on.

Actually the Standing Rock tribe has spoken on this issue and they voted and supported UND using the name "Fighting Sioux" (in 2006).

"a letter written to the NCAA by Archie Fool Bear, chairman of the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe's judicial committee. Fool Bear said six of the eight districts on the reservation have voted "overwhelmingly" to support the Grand Forks school's use of the nickname. "

It is the Standing Rock Tribal council that has said "NO"!

Standing Rock Chairman Ron His Horse Is Thunder sent a letter to Franklin on Thursday, saying the tribe "maintains its stance opposing the 'Fighting Sioux' athletic nickname and logo."

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/other/2006-04-27-north-dakota-nickname_x.htm?AID=4992781&PID=4169806&SID=15y5v2cgcmwsj

[citdog]

Shut it you Confederate.

it is my HONOR to be.

[clenz]

Heck I would like it if there was a team called the Chickasaws. Of course that doesn't roll off the tongue as well as some.
There is a high school in Iowa that uses that.

[dgtw]

How about the UND Spirit(s)? Too much? You could still pay homage to that particular tribe without being blatantly obvious. It would also be unique.

We got spirit, yes we do!

People will probably hate that as much as they hated Hofstra Pride, though I thought it was awesome.

The St. Louis ABA team was called the Spirit of St. Louis. Great name and the owners of the team are two of my heroes.

[bisonguy]

Actually the Standing Rock tribe has spoken on this issue and they voted and supported UND using the name "Fighting Sioux" (in 2006).

"a letter written to the NCAA by Archie Fool Bear, chairman of the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe's judicial committee. Fool Bear said six of the eight districts on the reservation have voted "overwhelmingly" to support the Grand Forks school's use of the nickname. "

It is the Standing Rock Tribal council that has said "NO"!

Standing Rock Chairman Ron His Horse Is Thunder sent a letter to Franklin on Thursday, saying the tribe "maintains its stance opposing the 'Fighting Sioux' athletic nickname and logo."

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/other/2006-04-27-north-dakota-nickname_x.htm?AID=4992781&PID=4169806&SID=15y5v2cgcmwsj

Actually, the Tribal Council is the official voice for the tribe according to the legal agreement that was signed by UND, and has been adamantly opposed to the nickname for decades. xcoffeex

[Tod]

The St. Louis ABA team was called the Spirit of St. Louis. Great name and the owners of the team are two of my heroes.

Then it's settled.

[clenz]

Actually, the Tribal Council is the official voice for the tribe according to the legal agreement that was signed by UND, and has been adamantly opposed to the nickname for decades. xcoffeex
Sounds like what the council is doing is equivalent to a state voting it's electoral college votes to one guy, but the people who report it give it to the other guy (which can happen)

That doesn't make it "right" though.

[clenz]

I'd be all for them going without a nickname. Just go as North Dakota.....wait, how long until there is controversy over using the name "Dakota"

[Jackman]

There are principles worth fighting for that even if you know you can't win make the fight no less necessary or honorable. Southron's will know what I mean.

This is the definition of a cause not worth fighting for. North Dakota fans in favor of a good sports nickname need to mobilize all troops for the battle over the next nickname, not the old one. Otherwise the administration will come up with something painfully bland and inoffensive, like the "Green Pioneers". Or the LOLstudents will get to vote on it and the winner through a facebook-organized write-in ballot will be the "Green Grass". This happens over and over at places replacing native american themed names. The fans fight a huge battle to keep the old name, they inevitably lose, and then they get discouraged and refuse to have any role in choosing the next name, when all along it was choosing the next name that was the only winnable battle. They will regret it if they don't come up with the new name candidates before the administration does...

[DJKyR0]

This is the definition of a cause not worth fighting for. North Dakota fans in favor of a good sports nickname need to mobilize all troops for the battle over the next nickname, not the old one. Otherwise the administration will come up with something painfully bland and inoffensive, like the "Green Pioneers". Or the LOLstudents will get to vote on it and the winner through a facebook-organized write-in ballot will be the "Green Grass". This happens over and over at places replacing native american themed names. The fans fight a huge battle to keep the old name, they inevitably lose, and then they get discouraged and refuse to have any role in choosing the next name, when all along it was choosing the next name that was the only winnable battle. They will regret it if they don't come up with the new name candidates before the administration does...

Well said. Move forward rather than dwell on the past. I like it.

[SDFS]

My whole problem is this: If we had the same settlement (one tribal approval) like Central Michigan, FSU, and Utah this would be over and UND would still be the Sioux. This whole thing is a slap in the face to the Spirit Lake Sioux nation a tribe only 80 miles from Grand Forks who supported a name, and the other Sioux tribe who is mostly in South Dakota with an exception of those who live in "SIOUX COUNTY, ND" who can't get a tribe wide vote because the tribal council knows they would vote in favor of the name. Well its over and time to move on.


Actually the Standing Rock tribe has spoken on this issue and they voted and supported UND using the name "Fighting Sioux" (in 2006).

"a letter written to the NCAA by Archie Fool Bear, chairman of the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe's judicial committee. Fool Bear said six of the eight districts on the reservation have voted "overwhelmingly" to support the Grand Forks school's use of the nickname. "

It is the Standing Rock Tribal council that has said "NO"!

Standing Rock Chairman Ron His Horse Is Thunder sent a letter to Franklin on Thursday, saying the tribe "maintains its stance opposing the 'Fighting Sioux' athletic nickname and logo."

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/other/2006-04-27-north-dakota-nickname_x.htm?AID=4992781&PID=4169806&SID=15y5v2cgcmwsj


Actually, the Tribal Council is the official voice for the tribe according to the legal agreement that was signed by UND, and has been adamantly opposed to the nickname for decades. xcoffeex

My reply was directed toward Darell's comment about Standing Rock not having a vote. I was simply pointing out that a vote had taken place and the council knows they would vote in favor because they have already.

So, having another vote - would likely yield the same results - vote - "Yes" - council - "No" - NCAA - "No"... nothing would have changed without changes by the council.

As to your comment, you are correct the Tribal Council is the official voice of the tribe hence my emphasis on the council saying "NO"! - xcoffeex

[citdog]

Well said. Move forward rather than dwell on the past. I like it.




Kiss our ***.


Bless your heart.

Love,

The WHOLE SOUTH

[Skjellyfetti]

I'm just pissed the PC police took Yosef's pipe.

[gjw007]

I'd be all for them going without a nickname. Just go as North Dakota.....wait, how long until there is controversy over using the name "Dakota"

Absolutely although technically speaking, they don't have the permission of the Dakota tribe to use the name Dakota (a Sioux tribe) if you follow the logic of the NCAA to its logical conclusion. UND should just go as the University of North Dakota

[Gil Dobie]

Enough money was spent fighting the logo change, if equal funds are spent coming up with a new name, it should be fantastic. Teddy Roosevelt is the most famous historic resident this side of the Sioux, there is no reason they couldn't use the Rough Riders. They could change the name of Red River HS (Rough Riders) in Grand Forks to UND Prep. UND could be the Teddy's, or some kind of bear, as Roosevelt is associated with bears, henceforth Teddy Bear. Roosevelt did run for president under the Bull Moose party, UND could be the Moose.

[dgtw]

I'd be all for them going without a nickname. Just go as North Dakota.....wait, how long until there is controversy over using the name "Dakota"

citdog would be offended if they just went as North.

[darell1976]

Enough money was spent fighting the logo change, if equal funds are spent coming up with a new name, it should be fantastic. Teddy Roosevelt is the most famous historic resident this side of the Sioux, there is no reason they couldn't use the Rough Riders. They could change the name of Red River HS (Rough Riders) in Grand Forks to UND Prep. UND could be the Teddy's, or some kind of bear, as Roosevelt is associated with bears, henceforth Teddy Bear. Roosevelt did run for president under the Bull Moose party, UND could be the Moose.

Teddy Roosevelt didn't care for Indians...

http://www.theodorerooseveltcenter.org/Essay.asp?ID=15


Two opposing thoughts and impulses guided Roosevelt’s ideas and actions on racial issues. On the one hand, TR subscribed to some of the worst stereotypes of his era. As late as 1886, Roosevelt announced: “I don’t go so far as to think that the only good Indians are dead Indians, but I believe nine out of ten are, and I shouldn’t like to inquire too closely into the case of the tenth".

[darell1976]

I have no understanding of you as another living creature. HOW in the HELL can you lose something that was supposedly important to you and just shrug your mother****ing shoulders and say "oh well it's over time to move on"?????????????? HOLD A ****ING GRUDGE FOR AT LEAST 5 GODDAMN MINUTES! If not 150 years.


Homo

Why get myself all worked up. If UND kept the name and logo they would be kicked out of the Big Sky, banned from hosting playoffs, schools would not schedule UND and eventually UND would have to drop athletics due to $$$$. So what good is a name with no team attached to it. Like I said its time to move on. I have had my Elementary school, Jr. High School and High School's nicknames changed due to this PC crap and now my favorite college. I don't like it as much as the next guy but I am not going to go on a shooting rampage over it or start a protesting war at the Standing Rock Reservation. Its over!! NCAA won UND lost. Next game.

[darell1976]

This just in:

http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/governor-dalrymple-announces-that-und-will-retire-the-fighting-sioux-nickname/


Update: I’m being told by nickname supporters that tribal interests are considering a lawsuit against the NCAA, so it would appear as though this issue is far from over though I don’t have any details to add at this point.

Plantiff: Native Americans of ND vs Defendant: NCAA!! Maybe this thing is not over?!

[dgtw]

Then it's settled.

Check out the deal they got when the ABA merged into the NBA and the Spirit were left out. They get big checks every year and don't have to lift a finger. My kind of guys.

[No_Skill]

This just in:

http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/governor-dalrymple-announces-that-und-will-retire-the-fighting-sioux-nickname/



Plantiff: Native Americans of ND vs Defendant: NCAA!! Maybe this thing is not over?!

We can only hope...

[Gil Dobie]

Teddy Roosevelt didn't care for Indians...

http://www.theodorerooseveltcenter.org/Essay.asp?ID=15

To put it in proper historical context, I would guess 9 out of 10 white people at that point in time felt the same way as Roosevelt.

[kperk014]

This is the definition of a cause not worth fighting for. North Dakota fans in favor of a good sports nickname need to mobilize all troops for the battle over the next nickname, not the old one. Otherwise the administration will come up with something painfully bland and inoffensive, like the "Green Pioneers". Or the LOLstudents will get to vote on it and the winner through a facebook-organized write-in ballot will be the "Green Grass". This happens over and over at places replacing native american themed names. The fans fight a huge battle to keep the old name, they inevitably lose, and then they get discouraged and refuse to have any role in choosing the next name, when all along it was choosing the next name that was the only winnable battle. They will regret it if they don't come up with the new name candidates before the administration does...

This is the definition of a cause that should NOT have to be fought over if not for stodgy old coots who just want to be contrary. If ANYONE can show me where it's truly detrimental to a tribe to have a mascot named after them, I'd like to hear it and I'm not talking about "it is disrespectful" because that's a load of manure.

[Jacked_Rabbit]

What ramifications is losing the nickname going to have for the university? I thought I had heard (years ago) that a big time donor, who funded the bulk of your hockey arena, would pull all of his money out if the nickname was retired. How much of that is true?

Sorry if this has already been discussed somewhere on this thread...

[BucBisonAtLarge]

The fat tarbrush wielded in a lot of these posts leaves me breathless. I am a hardened grassroots community organizer, way left of a bunch of ya. I am really angry at the failure of the Attorney General and other state officials with a four year window, to win over one Native American community. I dont think the administration knows how to go into those communities hat in hand, with a request. I dont understand how one community was permitted to not poll the members but to accept an executive decision. How marginalized must that group be, to stand against the wishes of the neighbors? Who is tone deaf here, the executive of Standing Rock, or those approaching those elected community leaders?

The use of Nixon-era definitions leaves us stuporous and ineffective, fighting the 21st century battles with 20th century rhetoric. I have a Ford Administration "Whip Inflation Now" button to the person who can convince one of us that it is Mao's China that is having our lunch here in 2011. We had better cease the sugar-bowling, come together and pick a direction for this national experiment. We are being kept at each others' throat pretty effectively, getting the world's only true superpower to stand still.

This organizer would want another long shot opportunity to charm Standing Rock's elected leaders to permit a polling of the tribe. Standing Rock did not seek any conflict-- this was brought to their door. Such a forced choice, without contextual information and a respectual amount of time for taking a decision, risks rejection. That is the proper response for a less-powerful entity-- call it 'failure on style points'.

If I were advising the President of the University, I would not name a mascot. Leave it vacant for five years or more. That first mascot is DOA already anyway. Then work as smart and hard you can to overturn the leadership decision, get the tribal vote, make sure you win it, then make the Standing Rock leadership the statewide heroes they would be, assisting to vacate the legalities. Has no one noticed this startingly isolated community within your state's boundaries? Whatever that estrangement, if no one takes that one more attempt at reclaiming a shared legacy then this is just so much hand-wringing and teeth-sucking. And leave the Speaker at home. Sheesh.

[BucBisonAtLarge]

This settlement was reached in 2006. To be filing against the NCAA in 2011 with any hope of a stay until whatever heretofore unheard brilliant arguments are heard in court, overturning the Evil Empire's mad power over mascots is folly. You have had FIVE years to confront this decision. Did you think those who entered into it were not sober serious representatives of their institutions? Did they hide this settlement from the citizenry? UND athletics will bear the brunt of this flurry of tardy legal log-rolling, and the student-athletes only have a few years of eligibility for the log-rollers to trash up.

[kperk014]

The use of Nixon-era definitions leaves us stuporous and ineffective, fighting the 21st century battles with 20th century rhetoric.


No, the use of the term "communist" has become the most under-used description in the last 20 years. They've always been here in large numbers and they still are. Some of us still have the backbone to call people what they truly are. David Horowitz once said that Joe McCarthy was right about most everyone he accused of being a communist. How did he know? His parents were communists and so was he until he grew out of their beliefs. Unfortunately for this country, that is the part of the liberal group who now has far to much power.

Other than that, I agree with the rest of your post.

[bisonguy]

What ramifications is losing the nickname going to have for the university? I thought I had heard (years ago) that a big time donor, who funded the bulk of your hockey arena, would pull all of his money out if the nickname was retired. How much of that is true?

Sorry if this has already been discussed somewhere on this thread...


Ralph Engelstad, who paid for the $100+ MM hockey arena to be built and numerous other donations to UND, threatened to abandon construction of the arena when the previous UND president was going to drop the nickname back around 2000. This is the letter he wrote to the UND president- LINK (http://www.und.edu/org/bridges/dearchuck.html)

As far as those saying go without a nickname, that's not a good option according to the settlement- LINK (http://www.ag.nd.gov/NCAA/SettlementAgreement.pdf) (Section 2d)


"If UND does not adopt a new nickname and logo, or if the transition to a new nickname and logo is not completed prior to August 15, 2011, then UND will be returned to the list of institutions subject to the Policy"

Hopefully the NCAA grants a little leniency with the timeline, otherwise UND has today and tomorrow to adopt a new nickname and logo.

[FormerPokeCenter]

I'm a moderate liberal. And I hate communism.

There's a disconnect, you see?



The phrase "moderate liberal" is an oxymoron....you can't be one if you're the other....

[BucBisonAtLarge]

Stop with the tar, already. Oh, in Europe the Communists run for office and get elected as members of a party, just the same way every other party competes in their parliamentary systems. Occasionally they get to be a sliver of a ruling block, but rarely hold a government. In Brazil, the government has been held for a third term by the Worker's Party, and that crowd of former Marxists is operating another market economy that is having our lunch. You go ahead, ask Joe McCarthy's repugnant question "Are you, or have you been, a member of the Communist Party?'. Forget that we might think we hold the right to freely assemble and associate as Americans, but not one person so accused anywhere in the present elected American universe would answer "yes". It seems the Communist Party has had a membership issue. (They also seem really angry, all of the time.) Not Nancy Pelosi representing San Francisco nor Rep. Bachmann, entitlement recipient-- the are not Communistas. Unsnarl your lips and smile at the nice ladies. Find a real argument, not the windmillsyou want the american people to tilt at. Better yet, talk about FCS football.

[Skjellyfetti]

The phrase "moderate liberal" is an oxymoron....you can't be one if you're the other....

huh? makes no sense.

the world is not as black and white as you see it.

[kperk014]

Stop with the tar, already. Oh, in Europe the Communists run for office and get elected as members of a party, just the same way every other party competes in their parliamentary systems. Occasionally they get to be a sliver of a ruling block, but rarely hold a government. In Brazil, the government has been held for a third term by the Worker's Party, and that crowd of former Marxists is operating another market economy that is having our lunch. You go ahead, ask Joe McCarthy's repugnant question "Are you, or have you been, a member of the Communist Party?'. Forget that we might think we hold the right to freely assemble and associate as Americans, but not one person so accused anywhere in the present elected American universe would answer "yes". It seems the Communist Party has had a membership issue. (They also seem really angry, all of the time.) Not Nancy Pelosi representing San Francisco nor Rep. Bachmann, entitlement recipient-- the are not Communistas. Unsnarl your lips and smile at the nice ladies. Find a real argument, not the windmillsyou want the american people to tilt at. Better yet, talk about FCS football.

It used to be difficult to get people to admit they were communists because of the repercussions. Now, even though there seems to no longer be any repercussions, they still won't admit it because they probably don't even know their ideas are communist due to the dumbed-down education of our sheep....er people.

On a football note, These days leading to the season seem to be dragging by more slowly everyday! It's too bad each university doesn't have a local channel they can show replays of games from their past just to ease the agony.

[darell1976]

Ralph Engelstad, who paid for the $100+ MM hockey arena to be built and numerous other donations to UND, threatened to abandon construction of the arena when the previous UND president was going to drop the nickname back around 2000. This is the letter he wrote to the UND president- LINK (http://www.und.edu/org/bridges/dearchuck.html)

As far as those saying go without a nickname, that's not a good option according to the settlement- LINK (http://www.ag.nd.gov/NCAA/SettlementAgreement.pdf) (Section 2d)



Hopefully the NCAA grants a little leniency with the timeline, otherwise UND has today and tomorrow to adopt a new nickname and logo.

There wasn't any mention from UND or the NCAA on needing a new nickname by Monday. Only that until the name is retired which for right now it is not complete (not til after the special session on Nov. 7th) UND will be on the H&A list. So maybe the NCAA overlooked it.

[49RFootballNow]

huh? makes no sense.

the world is not as black and white as you see it.

http://library.oakland.edu/tutorials/PoliticalSpectrum/common_images/spectrum.jpg

http://rationalrevolution.net/images/policomp5.gif

http://morganqorears.blogspot.com/2011/08/political-spectrum.html

[darell1976]

http://library.oakland.edu/tutorials/PoliticalSpectrum/common_images/spectrum.jpg

http://rationalrevolution.net/images/policomp5.gif

http://morganqorears.blogspot.com/2011/08/political-spectrum.html

Hitler, and The Pope??

[frozennorth]

This just in:

http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/governor-dalrymple-announces-that-und-will-retire-the-fighting-sioux-nickname/



Plantiff: Native Americans of ND vs Defendant: NCAA!! Maybe this thing is not over?!

That's it, I'm transfering. Bcs school, here I come.

[frozennorth]

It used to be difficult to get people to admit they were communists because of the repercussions. Now, even though there seems to no longer be any repercussions, they still won't admit it because they probably don't even know their ideas are communist due to the dumbed-down education of our sheep....er people.

On a football note, These days leading to the season seem to be dragging by more slowly everyday! It's too bad each university doesn't have a local channel they can show replays of games from their past just to ease the agony.the only person here who doesn't appear to understand communism is you

[FormerPokeCenter]

huh? makes no sense.

the world is not as black and white as you see it.

Sure it is. John Kerry's "Nuanced Position" is another oxymoron. You stand, where you stand. How you got there is irrelevant and doesn't somehow make a gray area, except - perhaps - to those looking for mitigating or exculpatory rationale for where they find themselves.

Reality, however, is black and white....

[FormerPokeCenter]

http://library.oakland.edu/tutorials/PoliticalSpectrum/common_images/spectrum.jpg

http://rationalrevolution.net/images/policomp5.gif

http://morganqorears.blogspot.com/2011/08/political-spectrum.html


This graph is bull****, in that it ascribes the facist Musolini as being on the right. Fascism, isn't a right wing idealogy. While it's pretty clear the graph is intended to provoke a response with the way it shows the Pope and Hitler on one sector and Reagan, Bush and Mussolini in the other, what's laughable is the way its got Clinton and JFK very near the center.

It's a nice bit of agitprop, but it's an epic fail when it comes to accuracy...

[SDFS]

What ramifications is losing the nickname going to have for the university? I thought I had heard (years ago) that a big time donor, who funded the bulk of your hockey arena, would pull all of his money out if the nickname was retired. How much of that is true?

Sorry if this has already been discussed somewhere on this thread...

I do not believe this is true. When REA was built (opend in 2001) it was agreed that ownership would be transferred after 30 years. Since then the Engelstad Foundation has given another $20 million (2007) to the school.

"University of North Dakota officials announced today the donation of $20 million to the university from the Ralph and Betty Engelstad Family Foundation. Engelstad was a former goaltender for the Fighting Sioux men's hockey team. Four million of the gift will be allocated for UND athletics in the form of scholarship endowments. Specific numbers may slightly vary, but the endowment grants $20,000 for athletic scholarships in 2008 and increases to $160,000 by 2017, where it will continue infinitely per year at the standard rate of return."

http://www.fightingsioux.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=13500&ATCLID=882277

I think total gifts toward the school are around $125 million.

[kperk014]

This graph is bull****, in that it ascribes the facist Musolini as being on the right. Fascism, isn't a right wing idealogy. While it's pretty clear the graph is intended to provoke a response with the way it shows the Pope and Hitler on one sector and Reagan, Bush and Mussolini in the other, what's laughable is the way its got Clinton and JFK very near the center.

It's a nice bit of agitprop, but it's an epic fail when it comes to accuracy...

Yeah that centrist, bull S clinton. He never met a woman he didn't either rape, molest, harass or at least try to. xlolx He took his hero's (JFK) behavior and took it to the extreme.

[kperk014]

the only person here who doesn't appear to understand communism is you

Then YOU must be a communist who either doesn't realize it or is in denial. xlolx Just what is it you want me to "understand" about your ideology? I know what it is and I "understand" how destructive it is.

[Twentysix]

Then YOU must be a communist who either doesn't realize it or is in denial. xlolx Just what is it you want me to "understand" about your ideology? I know what it is and I "understand" how destructive it is.

Vote to close / move off topic political special Olympics debate?

[kperk014]

Vote to close / move off topic political special Olympics debate?

You win!

[Appfan_in_CAAland]

When will the NCAA go after the most politically incorrect of all mascots - the Holy Cross Crusaders?

[UAalum72]

PETA has actually stated that while they have concerns about the conditions and caging of live mascots, they have no objection to a thinking human making an informed decision to wear a furry suit, so the names are safe from them.

[frozennorth]

Then YOU must be a communist who either doesn't realize it or is in denial. xlolx Just what is it you want me to "understand" about your ideology? I know what it is and I "understand" how destructive it is.like as in you are incapable of even defining the wword. Also, regarding a previous comment, fascism is certainly a right wing political movement. Right and left are as much about personality as it is about positions.

[lionsrking2]

This graph is bull****, in that it ascribes the facist Musolini as being on the right. Fascism, isn't a right wing idealogy. While it's pretty clear the graph is intended to provoke a response with the way it shows the Pope and Hitler on one sector and Reagan, Bush and Mussolini in the other, what's laughable is the way its got Clinton and JFK very near the center.

It's a nice bit of agitprop, but it's an epic fail when it comes to accuracy...

Fascism, especially as described by Mussolini, is about as extreme right wing as it gets, though it's obviously a complex ideology...as for the chart, while arguable to a degree, I would say it's pretty close.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

[kperk014]

like as in you are incapable of even defining the wword. Also, regarding a previous comment, fascism is certainly a right wing political movement. Right and left are as much about personality as it is about positions.


communists want to squelch all forms of speech that go against their will. liberals want to squelch all forms of speech that go against their will. Check.
communists want no one (except for the ruling class) to have anything more than the next. liberals want to take from the producers to give to the lazy non-producers in exchange for their support. Check.
communists want to control every aspect of life and destroy individual freedom. communists rule by force, not by elections. A liberal's wet dream. Check.

[kperk014]

Fascism, especially as described by Mussolini, is about as extreme right wing as it gets, though it's obviously a complex ideology...as for the chart, while arguable to a degree, I would say it's pretty close.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

"Webster dictionary: Fascism: often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition."

That's the exact opposite of the beliefs of Conservatives in America. Fascist probably describes liberals to a tee except you substitute the exaltation of government instead of nation. Today's liberal is more of a hybrid of communism AND fascism. "Left wing" and "right wing" doesn't have the same meanings in other parts of the world.

[kperk014]

I'm sure PETA is chomping at the bit to go after every school in the country that has an animal for a nickname, especially those schools that have live animals in a cage or on a leash as a mascot. That's just barbaric! Animals should not be treated as circus freaks! ;)

As lunacy in this country increases, someday everyone including sports teams will be identified by nothing more that numbers. Where have we heard that before? xnodx The Tennessee 24s vs the Alabama 65s. The San Francisco Forty-niners have a jump on everyone else.

[FormerPokeCenter]

Fascism, especially as described by Mussolini, is about as extreme right wing as it gets, though it's obviously a complex ideology...as for the chart, while arguable to a degree, I would say it's pretty close.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism


Try again. Fascism supports a strong centralized national government and state controlled means of production. The current occupant of the White House, for instance, has significant Fascist leanings, particularly with regard to conflict being an agent for change....

That's not a right wing conservative idealogy....that's straight out of the left's playbook....

Do you people even read?

[lionsrking2]

"Webster dictionary: Fascism: often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition."

That's the exact opposite of the beliefs of Conservatives in America. Fascist probably describes liberals to a tee except you substitute the exaltation of government instead of nation. Today's liberal is more of a hybrid of communism AND fascism. "Left wing" and "right wing" doesn't have the same meanings in other parts of the world.

Actually it's not opposite at all...with the definition you provided, you've described the fundamentalist Christian right wing in this country almost perfectly...I have nothing more to add really other than you won't find many scholars who study world government and political systems who would agree with you.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJOD9nbDU1I

[Tod]

communists want to squelch all forms of speech that go against their will. liberals want to squelch all forms of speech that go against their will. Check.
communists want no one (except for the ruling class) to have anything more than the next. liberals want to take from the producers to give to the lazy non-producers in exchange for their support. Check.
communists want to control every aspect of life and destroy individual freedom. communists rule by force, not by elections. A liberal's wet dream. Check.

You are probably the most ignorant person I've ever had the misfortune of reading on the internet. Check.

[Tod]

As lunacy in this country increases, someday everyone including sports teams will be identified by nothing more that numbers. Where have we heard that before? xnodx The Tennessee 24s vs the Alabama 65s. The San Francisco Forty-niners have a jump on everyone else.

Two former confederate states and a team named after a particular year, the year the gold rush in California began. What is the excuse of the traitor states?

[Gil Dobie]

Two former confederate states and a team named after a particular year, the year the gold rush in California began. What is the excuse of the traitor states?

The gold rush actually began in 1848.

[kperk014]

You are probably the most ignorant person I've ever had the misfortune of reading on the internet. Check.

When I hear from a clueless dunce, it makes me feel better about being right. No offense.

[kperk014]

Two former confederate states and a team named after a particular year, the year the gold rush in California began. What is the excuse of the traitor states?

I think you need to read your history, cod. Oh wait, you have to learn how to read first. xlolx

[kperk014]

Actually it's not opposite at all...with the definition you provided, you've described the fundamentalist Christian right wing in this country almost perfectly...I have nothing more to add really other than you won't find many scholars who study world government and political systems who would agree with you.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJOD9nbDU1I

Are you clueless or just playing devil's advocate???

[kperk014]

Try again. Fascism supports a strong centralized national government and state controlled means of production. The current occupant of the White House, for instance, has significant Fascist leanings, particularly with regard to conflict being an agent for change....

That's not a right wing conservative idealogy....that's straight out of the left's playbook....

Do you people even read?

Isn't it hilarious and sad at the same time. Everything today's libs do fits perfectly with the descriptions of both communism and fascism and they can't even see it! Then they want us to read communist-leaning "scholars" spewing about who's who. xlolx

[citdog]

Two former Confederate States and a team named after a particular year, the year the gold rush in California began. What is the excuse of the traitor States?


The only traitors I am aware of was the lincoln regime and it's illegal coercion of SOVEREIGN States. Get back in your coal mine with your intellectual peers tod.

[Appfan_in_CAAland]

...I have nothing more to add really other than you won't find many scholars who study world government and political systems who would agree with you.



With how many "scholars who study world government and political systems" are you actually familiar? Just off the top of my head, I can think of a dozen respected scholars who make the very arguement you are discounting, the late nobel-prize winning economists FA Hayek and Milton Friedmen most notably. Hayek's 1944 classic Road to Serfdom, explores the role of the collectivist State oppression, both Communist and Fascist. Hayek, an Austrian, was writting during Hitler's rise to power and clearly places fascism in the realm of the collectivist left.

My point is not to argue one way or the other (though I find Hayek's arguement more persuasive than anything I've read from the Left), only to point out that there are many scholars who do in fact argue this line of thinking.

[superman7515]

You go ahead, ask Joe McCarthy's repugnant question "Are you, or have you been, a member of the Communist Party?'. Forget that we might think we hold the right to freely assemble and associate as Americans, but not one person so accused anywhere in the present elected American universe would answer "yes".

They actually still ask that question for government jobs with security clearance. I've taken a few polygraphs with my political views questioned and there is always the "Are you now, or have you ever been, a member of the Communist Party?" "Do you now, or have you ever been, an associate in business or private, of a known Communist." "Are any of your family members now, or have ever been, associated with the Communist Party?" etc etc etc.

[dgtw]

PETA actually requested South Carolina and Jax State change their names because it glorified and promoted cockfighting.

[DJKyR0]

This is Day Zero. UND sanctions officially start today.

[kperk014]

PETA actually requested South Carolina and Jax State change their names because it glorified and promoted cockfighting.

I think my favorite idiotic liberal effort was forcing the Washington Bullets to change their names to the Wizards so gun violence would stop in DC. We all know how THAT turned out. Numbskulls! xlolx

[citdog]

"All it takes for evil to triumph is the apathy of good men"

[Gil Dobie]

"All it takes for evil to triumph is the apathy of good men"

You mean the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

[kperk014]

You mean the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Good intentions are not the same as good actions.

[citdog]

Actually I meant


"HANG them ALL!"

[darell1976]

This is Day Zero. UND sanctions officially start today.

Since UND announced it is retiring the name and still not playoff eligible until July these sanctions don't mean anything.

[Hammerhead]

More from the story that will not die...


Members of the Spirit Lake Sioux tribe who favor UND retaining its Fighting Sioux nickname and logo have turned once again to the courts to block the anticipated retirement of the symbols.

Read more at http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/214800/.

[darell1976]

More from the story that will not die...


Members of the Spirit Lake Sioux tribe who favor UND retaining its Fighting Sioux nickname and logo have turned once again to the courts to block the anticipated retirement of the symbols.

Read more at http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/214800/.


In their petition to the tribal court, nickname supporters also seek transfer of the “right of license, use and merchandising of the Fighting Sioux name and symbol to the Spirit Lake Sioux Tribe for purposes of furthering the honor of the Great Sioux Nation.”

That would serve the NCAA right. Make lots of money on a name and logo that brought the NCAA a lot of cash. I hate to say this but I hope UND continues to retire the name. I love the name and logo but the NCAA said no, and unless this is a slam dunk way of saving the name (which IMO isn't) then just give the tribe the licensing rights and change the name.

[Dane96]

I think your missing the point. If they win the right to transfer of the name, they can then "license" it for a fee to UND and the NCAA would be hardpressed at arguing an arms length transaction between the two.

It's actually a pretty interesting legal position.

[darell1976]

I think your missing the point. If they win the right to transfer of the name, they can then "license" it for a fee to UND and the NCAA would be hardpressed at arguing an arms length transaction between the two.

It's actually a pretty interesting legal position.

SL couldn't use the name with University on it (per NCAA) it would say ND Fighting Sioux with the Indian logo. but nothing with UND....just ND.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Agreed on both counts. Here's something I've noticed just on this board as a microcosm of society in general.

When a post is reported as being "offending" in some way it is almost never reported by the guy that was being "attacked". It is reported by some other dude that is not involved in the discussion or argument. The dude that is being stuck up for is actually refuting or combating the guy that made the offensive post and showing that he can handle the situation on his own. In spite of that there is some other full grown man thinking he needs to help some dude that he doesn't know a thing about out.

To me there would be nothing more offensive than having another fella think that I needed him to take up my battle for me.

Just enlarge that small snapshot and it pretty much covers society in America as a whole these days.

Oh well, it's over now and a vocal minority wins because of a lack of the previously pointed out back bone material.

Dont worry.....I got your back.........................................you just run the board......I got this..............................................

[superman7515]

Dont worry.....I got your back.........................................you just run the board......I got this..............................................

This from the guy with the crazy militia talk...

[Dane96]

SL couldn't use the name with University on it (per NCAA) it would say ND Fighting Sioux with the Indian logo. but nothing with UND....just ND.

You are still missing the point.

They would license the right to use the name "ND Fighting Sioux and the Logo" to the University who can convert that name to use as they wish under licensing agreements.

That is what I think they are trying to do. My job is working with licensing everyday, both on the Trademark/Copyright and IP Technology and Software level. That's why I thought this is an interesting end around. Think for a second: The SL can go after the copyright/trademark without permission of the NCAA...without reference or cooperation with UND. It would be akin to every public or private business that goes through the TM/Copyright process.

So why woud you petition the tribal court for this right...moreso considering that the petitioning group supports the use of the logo and the name by the University.

It 'aint rocket science to see this end around. Question is...does the NCAA have any power to block the use of the name and logo if indeed the SL wins the right to own the licensing rights and indeed transfers usage to UND and UND utilizes the rights. That, is a whole different argument...and it depends on what the initial reasoning was for the NCAA block on the usage vs. that with, for example, FLORIDA STATE. It makes the "full-tribe approval" argument a bit murkey if the tribal court, who has the final say over tribal issues allows the SL to own the rights opposed to all Sioux tribes.

[mmiller_34]

This thread should end. Its pointless to try and argue the extremist political alignments, especially those of Hitler and Stalin. Really. Hitler and Stalin hated each other and claimed to be on opposing sides of the political spectrum. Hitler with his Fascism and Stalin with his Communism. However, they were similar rulers--and neither of them resemble what our Republican or Democratic Parties represent, they swing in their directions but not to those extremes. This thread is offensive because everyone here seems to be taking for granted that we live a good life, even in these hard economic times.

Both Stalin & Hitler were terrible to Mankind and should never be compared to United States leaders (left or right). I don't care if you are kidding. CITDOG Im mostly talking to you. I figure you are just trying to stir the pot with what you say about the South and being a confederate. But your last post crosses the line. "Actually I meant, HANG them ALL"... Thats disgusting and reading it makes me want to vomit.

[Dane96]

Dude..>WTF...you just brought in an old argument that's dead. The real newsworthy story is the latest end around attempt by one of two tribal nations that have a say in the Sioux name.

[superman7515]

Ursus should find a way to include some sort of time stamp like notation to these posts so you can tell when something is 3 weeks old and forgotten about before whining about it. Oh wait.

[DJKyR0]

This thread should end.

This whole situation should. But, as the sands through the hourglass...

[Lakes Bison]

I thnk they should let them keep the name.

[SoCon48]

I thnk they should let them keep the name.

I agree. I just can't see me behing offended if I were a Sioux. Caucasian fans have lots of mascots related to "warriors." Minutemen, Knights, Pirates, etc.

[SoCon48]

I think my favorite idiotic liberal effort was forcing the Washington Bullets to change their names to the Wizards so gun violence would stop in DC. We all know how THAT turned out. Numbskulls! xlolx

:>)