Schools That Should Have Football, But Don't

[MYTAPPY]

This has been an ongoing discussion in the Charlotte area.
UNC Charlotte does not have football and a lot of alumn and locals say that they should. I sort of agree.
Any other instutions that don't... but should?

[GeauxLions94]

This has been an ongoing discussion in the Charlotte area.
UNC Charlotte does not have football and a lot of alumn and locals say that they should. I sort of agree.
Any other instutions that don't... but should?

Just in the Southland Conference alone there is Texas-Arlington, Lamar and Texas-San Antonio.

Texas A&M-Corpus Christi, which joins the SLC this summer, has stated they would explore football when there enrollment reaches 10,000. I'll believe that when I see it. :twocents:

Other schools that don't have football, but should ...
St. Mary's (Calif.)
Wichita State
Georgia State
Tulane (oh wait, they have football) ;)

[UNH 40]

The University of Vermont.... The only state in the country without at least a Division I-AA football program. The sad thing is that they would actually be a pretty good team. Believe it or not there have been some good players to come out of the state of Vermont recently and were forced to play in another state. Players like Former Arizona Cardinal back up QB Sean Keenan, former UMaine standout QB Jake Eaton, UNH OG Tucker Peterson, UNH LB/S Muji Karim, UNH LB Hussain Karim, former UMass OG Jake Ward, and most impressive of all David Ball WR at UNH. If they had a program there they would attract players because the great college town that is Burlington, VT, it is also a beautifull area. It is an absolute crime that they do not have a program at UVM and personally as a Vermonter I find it an embarrassment.

[89Hen]

Three of the CAA schools have mentioned it: Old Dominion, George Mason and Georgia State. UNC-W could be a fourth. Of schools that once had football Boston University and Wichita State immediately come to mind. Another big one is Vermont! The only continental state without DI football?

Of course maybe one day UMass will decide to field a team when they play the Hens. :p

[TheValleyRaider]

BU
ODU (isn't that one coming?)
Vermont
University of Denver (don't know if they really should, but it'd be cool, I think. Plus it'd be another team for the GWFC, assuming they don't immediately join the Sun Belt) Who doesn't want to see the Red-Tailed Jelly Doughnut on a helmet?

http://www.collegehockeystats.net/img120/den120.gif

[MYTAPPY]

College of Charleston and UNC Greensboro.
App. State needs some more victims.

[ButlerGSU]

Someone above mentioned Georgia State, I know they have conducted a study about starting football in the near future. With the campus being basically a few skyscrapers downtown, very little dorm space and high numbers of non-traditional students it will be a tough sell.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Vermont eliminated football in 1974, and the reason they gave at the time was Title IX considerations. Just guessing here that this is before the advent of sports like "dance team" and "women's hockey" that now grace some of these schools that make up for Title IX, so who knows if UVM may reconsider football someday soon? It may have been that UVM had to choose between men's hockey and football.

Here's some info:
http://www.rutlandherald.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050910/NEWS/509100332/1007

BU also had a fairly successful team until their own shortsighted faculty canned the program in the late '90s. Here on the East Coast, they have to be the biggest missing teams.

[colgate13]

Vermont is my #1.

Locally, SUNY Binghamton (now Binghamton University). 11,000 students for an America East team.

I think they should be right there with Albany, Stony Brook and Buffalo (that's right, come on back to I-AA where you belong Bulls) and that would be a nice group of NY schools in I-AA if they were all at the fully funded level.

(FWIW, Geneseo should too at the D-III level)

[MYTAPPY]

Someone above mentioned Georgia State, I know they have conducted a study about starting football in the near future. With the campus being basically a few skyscrapers downtown, very little dorm space and high numbers of non-traditional students it will be a tough sell.

They could probably use Ga. Tech's facilities and have the home games when Tech is on the road.....but I seriously doubt that is possible.

[Sly Fox]

In the Big South Winthrop is the obvious school that has the budget and the fertile recruiting grounds of Charlotte.

I agree that GMU & ODU both make sense.

Down here in Texas, A&M-CC & UTSA are the obvious schools. Both are in cities where there is no I-AA (yeah I know Texas State is in San Marcos) in areas that it would appear there is a fanbase ready to step up.

Other higher profile schools that football would seem to be an option would be Marquette and DePaul.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Here's a crazy thought - what about Seton Hall? They never were greater than a D-III team in football, but if they had interest they would fit pretty well in a Patriot League-style atmosphere (football-only, of course) that didn't exist in 1982 when football was disbanded.

[ucdtim17]

All the big schools in California that dropped football/never had it - Fullerton, Long Beach, Santa Barbara, Irvine, Bakersfield, San Bernardino, etc

St. Mary's would be low on my list - it's a tiny school that would fit in well with its WCC brethren in a non/limited schollie league, but not fully funded I-AA. It'd be nice if they all sat down and agreed to start up a league and play each other, along with UOP and USD

[Cocky]

Gonzaga

[bigbluetiger]

They could probably use Ga. Tech's facilities and have the home games when Tech is on the road.....but I seriously doubt that is possible.



The rumor I heard was the they would Morris Brown's Hernden stadium. The stadium is about 10 years old and was build during the Olympics. MBC has dropped football and it's a perfect I-AA stadium on the footsteps of downtown. Recently, the now defunct women pro soccer team used the stadium.

[MR. CHICKEN]

GONZAGA
U of SAN FRANCISCO
U of ALASKA
OH YEAH...........AN'........VILLANOVA..........xlolx ...........BRAWK!

[nlwwln]

Gonzaga

beat me to it, with all the momentum the basketball team has created i bet they could easily field a soild 1aa team.

[Umass74]

The University of Vermont.... The only state in the country without at least a Division I-AA football program. The sad thing is that they would actually be a pretty good team. Believe it or not there have been some good players to come out of the state of Vermont recently and were forced to play in another state. Players like Former Arizona Cardinal back up QB Sean Keenan, former UMaine standout QB Jake Eaton, UNH OG Tucker Peterson, UNH LB/S Muji Karim, UNH LB Hussain Karim, former UMass OG Jake Ward, and most impressive of all David Ball WR at UNH. If they had a program there they would attract players because the great college town that is Burlington, VT, it is also a beautifull area. It is an absolute crime that they do not have a program at UVM and personally as a Vermonter I find it an embarrassment.


I would love to see Vermont (the Catamounts) return as a I-AA team.

However, they struggled in the old Yankee Conference. When they folded, their totals were 95 Yankee Conference games, 26-67-2 overall for a.284 winning average...

[NoCoDanny]

The University of Vermont.... The only state in the country without at least a Division I-AA football program.

Alaska

[Go...gate]

Saint Joseph's, New York University, Niagara and Saint Bonaventure.

[SochorField]

All these CA schools had Football programs, but were cut. Most of them in the '80s and early-mid '90s. The Cal State schools' programs were victims of state budget cuts. The Privates had funding problems of their own.

Pacific Tigers
San Francisco State Gators
Sonoma State Seawolves
Chico State Wildcats
Long Beach State 49'ers
Cal State Fullerton Titans
Cal State Northridge Matadors
UC Santa Barbara Gauchos
St. Mary's Gaels
Santa Clara Broncos

*Pacific was I-A


Any others I'm missing? Probably some small privates...

[MarkCCU]

College of Charleston and UNC Greensboro.
App. State needs some more victims.

i disagree. CofC has nowhere to play, Johnson Hagood is taken by el cid. CofC is a big baseball/basketball school and being a local charlestonian, alot of people would not support it b/c the school has a very bad rep from the students that it attracts, so locally it wouldn't do well. people tried to get a bowl game in Charleston and nobody wanted a bowl game!

[ChickenMan]

George Mason... if they can run a football program as well as their current basketball program... they can bolt the CAA and head for the ACC... ;)

[MarkCCU]

Francis Marion University

[I-AA Fan]

I am not so certain that a school in Alaska could go I-AA. I do not think the NCAA funds regular-season football in I-AA. I know the conference receives a stipened for teams to travel to Hawaii, and when the Rainbows to come to the mainland. This may still be the case. I know they like to have a I-AA team on their schedule, as they can pay less of their own money. usually the I-AA team will take enough to cover the trip, and maybe a small amount more. However, a major IA program expects payment in full, with expenses.

I know a man whose daughter plays DI softball, and what Hawaii does is sponsor a tournament (which does not count for any teams involved toward their regular-season OOC slate). The NCAA provides suplemental funds for this. Then teams involved in the same tournament will play each other, sometimes a second time, after the tournament, while still in Hawaii ... and those do count toward your record. The expense is picked up by virtue of being part of the tournament, so an extra few days hotel expense is all they have to come up with. Is there anyone here with more knowledge in this area of the rules? how much was paid to App St., Montana, EIU, or any other I-AA that have made trip recently?

[I-AA Fan]

All these CA schools had Football programs, but were cut. Most of them in the '80s and early-mid '90s. The Cal State schools' programs were victims of state budget cuts. The Privates had funding problems of their own.

Pacific Tigers
San Francisco State Gators
Sonoma State Seawolves
Chico State Wildcats
Long Beach State 49'ers
Cal State Fullerton Titans
Cal State Northridge Matadors
UC Santa Barbara Gauchos
St. Mary's Gaels
Santa Clara Broncos

*Pacific was I-A


Any others I'm missing? Probably some small privates...

I think another issue that the CA state schools could have (as does SUNY and others) is that the stae system allow lateral transfers, for academics. I am not certain how this NCAA treats this, as they do not technically transfer completely out of the school. Perhaps people out there can tell us.

[Marcus Garvey]

I would love to see Vermont (the Catamounts) return as a I-AA team.

However, they struggled in the old Yankee Conference. When they folded, their totals were 95 Yankee Conference games, 26-67-2 overall for a.284 winning average...

Agreed. Really, the only people, outside of UVM's football supporters, which were few, that missed them when they dropped were their fellow Yankee Conf. teams. No more "easy" homecomming game against the Catamounts.

What the article failed to mention about the decision to drop football at UVM was how horrible the team was. That always makes it an easier decision. If they were as good as UMass or UNH at that time, I doubt the football team would have been eliminated. They had a nice 4 year winning stretch in the mid-60's, but that was the "golden age" for UVM football. Most of their wins came against D-III level competitioin such as Middlebury, Norwich, WPI, et al.

Is there really any significant, organized effort to resume football at UVM? A lot of rhetoric about this topic has been spewed on this board before, but I'm interested in reality.

[wkukid]

Alaska

http://www.i-aa.org/images/articles/35361_iaamap200w-4.jpg

Alaska
Neveda
Wyoming
New Mexico
Nebraska
Kansas
Oklahoma
Minnesota
Wisconsin
Michigan
West Virginia
Vermont

[DFW HOYA]

In no particular order:

Santa Clara
Marquette
Wichita St.
Bradley
Xavier
George Washington
St. John's
Seton Hall
Boston U.
Long Beach St.
Detroit
..and the list goes on...

[Marcus Garvey]

Hmmm... what schools should have football....

BU comes to mind, but... The sky hasn't fallen since dropping football. Frankly, they're a bit of an anomaly in that they maintained a football team for so long during an era when most private urban colleges with limited facilities dropped the sport. (Add Northeastern to that anomaly list too). If Lou Perini (former Boston/Milwaukee Braves owner) had sold Braves Field to developers, I'll bet Terrier football would have died 30 or 40 years earlier. All the same, the way the admin terminated the program was disgraceful.

Swarthmore: An elitist crock of ***** reason was given for dropping football. On top of that, they board broke their own rules to drop the sport when they didn't have the votes to make it happen.

Frankly, most schools without football are doing just fine. I think DeSales Univ. near Allentown ought to start a team though.

[ucdtim17]

All these CA schools had Football programs, but were cut. Most of them in the '80s and early-mid '90s. The Cal State schools' programs were victims of state budget cuts. The Privates had funding problems of their own.

Pacific Tigers
San Francisco State Gators
Sonoma State Seawolves
Chico State Wildcats
Long Beach State 49'ers
Cal State Fullerton Titans
Cal State Northridge Matadors
UC Santa Barbara Gauchos
St. Mary's Gaels
Santa Clara Broncos

*Pacific was I-A


Any others I'm missing? Probably some small privates...

Cal State Hayward, but that is as much a commuter school (with older, night students) as any. USF had fb back in the day I think. UCSD is also a big school that could play football if some of the others on that list did as well.

[Pard4Life]

New York University
University of Vermont
Boston Universtiy

Now, we would be able to have NYU-Fordham games at Yankee Stadium once more!

Or was it the Polo Grounds?

[rokamortis]

In the Big South Winthrop is the obvious school that has the budget and the fertile recruiting grounds of Charlotte.


Yeah - Winthrop will be scary if they ever field a team. But I don't think you can convince them to play on the gridiron - they are content with baing a basketball school.

[Green Cookie Monster]

All these CA schools had Football programs, but were cut. Most of them in the '80s and early-mid '90s. The Cal State schools' programs were victims of state budget cuts. The Privates had funding problems of their own.

Pacific Tigers
San Francisco State Gators
Sonoma State Seawolves
Chico State Wildcats
Long Beach State 49'ers
Cal State Fullerton Titans
Cal State Northridge Matadors
UC Santa Barbara Gauchos
St. Mary's Gaels
Santa Clara Broncos

*Pacific was I-A


Any others I'm missing? Probably some small privates...

Hayward, now East Bay

[Ronbo]

All these CA schools had Football programs, but were cut. Most of them in the '80s and early-mid '90s. The Cal State schools' programs were victims of state budget cuts. The Privates had funding problems of their own.

Pacific Tigers
San Francisco State Gators
Sonoma State Seawolves
Chico State Wildcats
Long Beach State 49'ers
Cal State Fullerton Titans
Cal State Northridge Matadors
UC Santa Barbara Gauchos
St. Mary's Gaels
Santa Clara Broncos

*Pacific was I-A


Any others I'm missing? Probably some small privates...

How about this for a football only Western I-AA Conference.

Davis
Sac. State
Cal Poly
San Francisco State
Long Beach State (was I-A)
Cal State Fullerton (was I-A)
Univ. of Pacific (was I-A)
Santa Clara (was I-A)

[TexasTerror]

http://www.i-aa.org/images/articles/35361_iaamap200w-4.jpg

Alaska
Neveda
Wyoming
New Mexico
Nebraska
Kansas
Oklahoma
Minnesota
Wisconsin
Michigan
West Virginia
Vermont


What's the latest on Nebraska-Omaha? That'd help cut that list down some. Not sure if any team in New Mexico would work in I-AA outside of maybe New Mexico - Highlands which I believe is Div II...

[SochorField]

Univ. of Pacific (was I-A)

I like that conference idea. Pacific has a vacant stadium of 35,000, (now used for soccer..etc)

St. Mary's used to have a great program, as well as Santa Clara...It would be great to bring them back. I imagine it would be easier to restart a football program at a private school?
Anyone have a pic of Santa Clara's stadium?

[OldAggieAlum]

UC Riverside and Cal Poly Pomona had football, but don't remember when they dropped it.

Of course the lack of football schools in such a populous state is probably a factor in the success UC Davis is having in recruiting. But I would still prefer to see more West Coast schools bring back football. Wonder how long it might be before UC Merced might be a possibility?

[ucdtim17]

I like that conference idea. Pacific has a vacant stadium of 35,000, (now used for soccer..etc)

St. Mary's used to have a great program, as well as Santa Clara...It would be great to bring them back. I imagine it would be easier to restart a football program at a private school?
Anyone have a pic of Santa Clara's stadium?

I think it's easier in theory for all these schools to sit down and decide to form a conference than it is in real life. St. Mary's just dropped it 2 years ago and now all the sports are better off for it. They're not going to bring it back unless a lot of things change. Same goes for UOP and SCU. It's a plus and minus for Davis and CP - there's a ton of talent to go to a relatively small number of schools in california, but there's no one around here to play

[UNH 40]

Alaska

My Bad! forgot Alaska.

[UNH 40]

Gonzaga

Gonzaga is really not a big enough school to have a D-I program. Most people don't know this but there enrollment is only between 2000 and 2500 students and a lot of them are commuters.

[UNH SUPERFAN]

Agreed. Really, the only people, outside of UVM's football supporters, which were few, that missed them when they dropped were their fellow Yankee Conf. teams. No more "easy" homecomming game against the Catamounts.

What the article failed to mention about the decision to drop football at UVM was how horrible the team was. That always makes it an easier decision. If they were as good as UMass or UNH at that time, I doubt the football team would have been eliminated. They had a nice 4 year winning stretch in the mid-60's, but that was the "golden age" for UVM football. Most of their wins came against D-III level competitioin such as Middlebury, Norwich, WPI, et al.

Is there really any significant, organized effort to resume football at UVM? A lot of rhetoric about this topic has been spewed on this board before, but I'm interested in reality.

I DON'T BELIEVE THERE IS ANY ORGANIZED EFFORT NOW. ABOUT 10 YEARS AGO THERE WERE SOME FOOTBALL PLAYING ALUMNI WHO WERE TRYING TO ORGANIZE SOMETHING BUT NOTHING HAPPENED. THE ONLY GOOD NEWS IS THAT THE UVM PRESIDENT USED TO BE PRESIDENT AT LSU, HE HAS TO KNOW THE VALUE OF FOOTBALL TO A UNIVERSITY.

[UNH 40]

Being from Vermont I know that the residents in Burlington and the rest of Vermont would love to see UVM have a football program. Hopefully the new president will bring a new attitude towards bringing football back to UVM.

[MYTAPPY]

Football in Alaska..
Can you imagine?? They would definitly need a dome.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

What we're missing here are 2 different models for I-AA conferences out on the West Coast. There are enough West Coast schools to have an A-10-type conference (state schools and big private schools, like Sac State, UC-Davis, SF State) and for a smaller, Patriot-style schools (St. Mary's, San Diego, Santa Clara, Gonzaga)

Right now these schools are being "forced" into conferences that share their mindset (San Diego), "forced" into a I-AA playoff level conference (Sac State) or forced together by convenience in the Great West (Cal Poly, UC-D). What's sad is that there should be enough for 2 more full autobid conferences, and the range of schools should support all three Eastern "models" for conferences.

[SactoHornetFan]

If a lot of the CSU schools brought back football, it would be like the old Western Football Conference of the 70's and 80's which was a D2 confernce.

BTW Lehigh Nation, we are not forced into the Big Sky. We chose them to protect football, whereas Poly and ucd chose to protect all the other sports and let football hang as an indy for a long time, then cobbled together to form the GWFC when the Dakotas finally moved up.

[walliver]

Gonzaga is really not a big enough school to have a D-I program. Most people don't know this but there enrollment is only between 2000 and 2500 students and a lot of them are commuters.

That's twice as big as Wofford, and about the same size as the Citadel (who usually draws around 18000 per game when they have a complete stadium to play in). It's also twice as big as VMI.

On the other hand, commuter schools seem to draw well for basketball but poorly for football.

[ucdtim17]

If a lot of the CSU schools brought back football, it would be like the old Western Football Conference of the 70's and 80's which was a D2 confernce.

BTW Lehigh Nation, we are not forced into the Big Sky. We chose them to protect football, whereas Poly and ucd chose to protect all the other sports and let football hang as an indy for a long time, then cobbled together to form the GWFC when the Dakotas finally moved up.

Well fb was an indie because we were D2 and there was no real conference for us, just like in I-AA. Football is obviously the biggie sport, but it's not more important than all the rest of the sports combined. The BW makes way more sense than the BSC for every other sport.

[igo4uni]

How about Creighton and Bradley. I think Wichita State was mentioned earlier.

[IaaScribe]

Football in Alaska..
Can you imagine?? They would definitly need a dome.

You know, I think it's time to dust off NCAA football 2006 and try starting a university in Alaska ... to play outdoors. That could be interesting ... :eyebrow:

[Lehigh Football Nation]

If a lot of the CSU schools brought back football, it would be like the old Western Football Conference of the 70's and 80's which was a D2 confernce.

BTW Lehigh Nation, we are not forced into the Big Sky. We chose them to protect football, whereas Poly and ucd chose to protect all the other sports and let football hang as an indy for a long time, then cobbled together to form the GWFC when the Dakotas finally moved up.

HornetFan, I completely understand why you're in the Big Sky, and that illustrates my point. You're in a marriage of convenience with the Big Sky, mostly. If there was a concerted effort to make a conference with mid-level state schools like Cal Poly, UCD, Sac State, maybe Northern Arizona, and others, it would seem to be a better match. Save on travel costs, too.

[mainejeff]

1. Boston University
2. Wichita State
3. Creighton
4. Binghamton
5. Vermont
6. Cal-Irvine
7. Cal-Riverside
8. Pepperdine
9. Denver
10. San Francisco

[HiHiYikas]

Elon

I keed, I keed...

VCU is probably big enough...they're probably better off without it, given UR being in town, and UVA/Tech loyalties what they are.

[OrneryAggie]

I think UOP (U of Pacific) would be the most likely candidate in CA now that Stanford's former AD, Ted Leland, has moved into an admnistrative role there. The current Pres is the one who cut football and some believe once he's gone the chances are good of a return to the gridiron. Were UOP to return as a IAA and SanDiego to upgrade to scholarships I don't think it would be too hard to convince USF (not SF St, they're DII and almost cut their entire athletic dept on budget concerns a year ago) or another WCC school to follow suit. They've got to find a way to upstage Gonzaga's current dominance of the media exposure.

I'd like the idea of football road trips to UC Santa Barbara or UC San Diego. But I also know it'd be hard to convince an 18 yr old to come to a cowtown like Davis over an oceanside education. Thankfully the aggies were able to out-coach those sister schools into non-existence. But if Cal Poly starts seeing some big-time success in football expect UCSB or LBSU to get a little jealous and maybe start talks to return.

Nationally you'd think that wichita's success in basketball and baseball would lead them take the next step. Though they'd probably go right to IA.

[SoCon48]

This has been an ongoing discussion in the Charlotte area.
UNC Charlotte does not have football and a lot of alumn and locals say that they should. I sort of agree.
Any other instutions that don't... but should?

i was gonna say the say thing as HiHiYIkas

[Green Cookie Monster]

When Charlotte was admitted into the UNC the land that the university now occupies was donated by a family who had a son killed/seriously injured playing football. A caveat of the land transfer was that the family would give the land so the university could form and that football never be played/offered at the Charlotte campus.

At least this is what a Charlotte alumni friend of mine told me.

On the western conference situation, Chico, SF State, Long Beach(IA), Riverside, Northridge(I-AA) etc. can't bring football back as the facilities these D2teams played in have been torn down or in such disrepair it makes it financially un-feasible.

Fullerton (12K), UOP (30K) and Santa Barbara (15K) are the only non-football playing schools that have a current stadium that could be used for football in I-AA.

[MYTAPPY]

When Charlotte was admitted into the UNC the land that the university now occupies was donated by a family who had a son killed/seriously injured playing football. A caveat of the land transfer was that the family would give the land so the university could form and that football never be played/offered at the Charlotte campus.

At least this is what a Charlotte alumni friend of mine told me.

On the western conference situation, Chico, SF State, Long Beach(IA), Riverside, Northridge(I-AA) etc. can't bring football back as the facilities these D2teams played in have been torn down or in such disrepair it makes it financially un-feasible.

Fullerton (12K), UOP (30K) and Santa Barbara (15K) are the only non-football playing schools that have a current stadium that could be used for football in I-AA.

Supposedly there was an old lady of that family that recently died and since her departure, they have been throwing around football ideas again. I don't know if the lady was the last surviving member of family that gave the land, but that is what I heard. I think Charlotte could pull it off. Definitly large enough.

[Ronbo]

When Charlotte was admitted into the UNC the land that the university now occupies was donated by a family who had a son killed/seriously injured playing football. A caveat of the land transfer was that the family would give the land so the university could form and that football never be played/offered at the Charlotte campus.

At least this is what a Charlotte alumni friend of mine told me.

On the western conference situation, Chico, SF State, Long Beach(IA), Riverside, Northridge(I-AA) etc. can't bring football back as the facilities these D2teams played in have been torn down or in such disrepair it makes it financially un-feasible.

Fullerton (12K), UOP (30K) and Santa Barbara (15K) are the only non-football playing schools that have a current stadium that could be used for football in I-AA.

What happened to Santa Clara's stadium? Don't they still have it? I think it seats around 7000 but that would work for a start.

http://www.scu.edu/virtualtour/images/BuckShaw.jpg

[TexasTerror]

What's the deal with Gonzaga? They've got loads and loads of money coming in for their basketball program and merchandise in general. They worried it'll hurt their BKB program if they start football? Think their fans would be upset if they had to settle for a I-AA program instead of a I-A?

[Green Cookie Monster]

What happened to Santa Clara's stadium? Don't they still have it? I think it seats around 7000 but that would work for a start.

http://www.scu.edu/virtualtour/images/BuckShaw.jpg

Buck Shaw stadium is a hybrid baseball/football facility. Once they dropped the program in '92?, they made the stadium more baseball friendly. I have a game ball stamped with 'Santa Clara Football' as a souvenir from their last year.

They will never be able to offer 63 football schollies.

[Marcus Garvey]

I think UOP (U of Pacific) would be the most likely candidate in CA now that Stanford's former AD, Ted Leland, has moved into an admnistrative role there. The current Pres is the one who cut football and some believe once he's gone the chances are good of a return to the gridiron. Were UOP to return as a IAA and SanDiego to upgrade to scholarships I don't think it would be too hard to convince USF...

Where would USF play? They used to play in old Kezar Stadium. I imagine they'd have to play in the new, smaller stadium built on it's site. At least Pacific still has a facility.

But stadium aside, does USF have the room for practice facilities? That was a big reason why Canisius, in Buffalo, decided to drop football.

[henfan]

George Mason, Charlotte, North Florida, Georgia State, Witchita State, UT-San Antonio, UT-Arlington, Lamar, Vermont, Boston U, Xavier, Pacific, Cal-Northridge, Evansville, and Denver. If they weren't well on their way, I'd throw Old Dominion's name into the hat also.

[ucdtim17]

Buck Shaw stadium is a hybrid baseball/football facility. Once they dropped the program in '92?, they made the stadium more baseball friendly. I have a game ball stamped with 'Santa Clara Football' as a souvenir from their last year.

They will never be able to offer 63 football schollies.

They have the new Steve Schott field now - isn't that different from Buck Shaw?

[Green Cookie Monster]

They have the new Steve Schott field now - isn't that different from Buck Shaw?

Yes, it is different, that new Schott Field is sweet!

[PMB4Life]

In no particular order:

-Winthrop
-George Mason
-Wichita State
-Wisconsin-Milwaukee
-Creighton
-Vermont
-Boston Univ.
-Bradley
-Gonzaga
-Cal State-Fullerton
-Pacific

And if it's possible, I'd like to see Indiana St. bring their program back too.:D

[Aggie71]

Glad the hen mentioned Northridge. Tough competion years ago.

I don't think even SBC can put the FWC back together again. Would have to go to Federal Court and Judge Green is now gone.

Sonoma State - Cossaks, Not the other thing...

[Cocky]

The University of Phoenix

[kats89]

Out of the SLC schools, I would like to see Lamar and UT-Arlington bring back football. Just how can you be in Texas and not have a football program?

[Mountain Panther]

DeVry.

Or the Omaha School of Trucking a.k.a. Omaha Truck & Tractor College.

[skinny_uncle]

How about Creighton and Bradley. I think Wichita State was mentioned earlier.
Wichita is the only one of these three where seems to be a lot of interest. The mayor of Wichita is advocating the idea. At one time the Shockers had DI football. I don't recall either Bradley or Creighton ever trying it.

[UAalum72]

Wichita is the only one of these three where seems to be a lot of interest. The mayor of Wichita is advocating the idea. At one time the Shockers had DI football. I don't recall either Bradley or Creighton ever trying it.
According to the Helmet Project Creighton dropped football in 1942, but Bradley played until 1971 against the likes of Western, Eastern, Northern, and Southern Illinois and Illinois State, as well as smaller schools
http://www.michigan-football.com/ncaa/f/bradley.htm

[skinny_uncle]

According to the Helmet Project Creighton dropped football in 1942, but Bradley played until 1971 against the likes of Western, Eastern, Northern, and Southern Illinois and Illinois State, as well as smaller schools
http://www.michigan-football.com/ncaa/f/bradley.htm
I was probably at the 1970 Bradley-SIU game and had forgotten. That would have been my freshman year. I wonder if the 69-3 pasting we gave them was a factor.

[ASU Kep]

Kennesaw State. I'd love to see a I-AA pop up in my hometown (Marietta, GA, about 10 mins away)...and I'd also love to see all the GSU fans freak out about it. Win, win as far as I'm concerned. I heard a while back that they were thinking about it. Their basketball program had a very solid year, though I'm not sure what conference they are in. Space for a stadium might be an issue.

[R.A.]

Besides George Washington, Two Schools that should have football programs in Washington, DCare:

-American University, Washington, DC- AU plays in the Patriot League already in other sports. With the 1-AA football teams in the city already (Georgetown and Howard), and the numerous in the region, it seems like a no brainer, but it seems they are comfortable with having one of the Nation's best Soccer Fields. The field complex AU currently uses for its other teams (Track, Soccer, Lacrosse, Field Hockey) named Revees Field and Greenburg Track, is very very nice. All they would need to do is add some bleachers, which there is room to do. And the Eagles' enrollment of about 10,000 and a deep $ Alumni base would fully support a football team. I'd love to see my Howard Bison play them, if they ever get a team. They literally have everything a school would need to compete in 1-AA Football, except the football team. Bender Arena, where their Basketball, Swimming, and Volleyball teams play, holds a huge fitness complex with an outstanding weight room that trumps many 1-A Weight Rooms.

http://aueagles.cstv.com/facilities/amer-facilities-reevesathleticcomplex.html

-University of the District of Columbia, Washington, DC- Again, Nice Inner City Campus, nice field on campus that other teams at the school use. I see the Firebirds as more of a possible D-II CIAA football program if they were too ever bring it back. The field is nice, but it would need work and a good architectural designer to really turn it into a stadium. There enrollment is 5,000 plus.

[wkukid]

Northern Kentucky University is planning on getting a football team. Not sure if it's going to be I-AA or lower. Right now they play Div II in all sports but are planning on moving up.

School sits 5 miles south of Cincinnati, Ohio
Around 16k students
2nd fastest growing Univ in Ky (after WKU!)

[JoltinJoe]

New York University
University of Vermont
Boston Universtiy

Now, we would be able to have NYU-Fordham games at Yankee Stadium once more!

Or was it the Polo Grounds?

NYU-Fordham was traditionally played at Yankee Stadium.

Fordham played its home games at the Polo Grounds.

[colgate13]

I'd love to see American start football in the PL. I just don't see any urban, especially private, schools starting up football programs anytime soon.

[HIU 93]

Univeristy of Maryland-Eastern Shore (UMES). They were a powerhouse team in the 60's, but disbanded the team in the 70's. It would be better for them to field a team and join the MEAC (since they compete in the MEAC for all other sports) than for the MEAC to let sub-standard football teams join (SSU). UMES has a great tradition and some great football alumni. Legendary offensive lineman and current and former Oakland Raiders head coach Art Shell played at UMES.

[faxjusfax]

If schools like American and U of DC (and others) want to try it out, they can go the IAA non-scholly route for a while to test the waters. It is logical to me to take a low cost approach to see if a new program will fly. It is done in business all the time.

The MAAC would welcome the entries, while giving that conference a much needed boost.

By joining the MAAC, it keeps open the possibilitiy of that conference surviving and possibly following in the footsteps of the NEC into becomming a solid IAA conference, and not just an unwanted stepchild.

[colgate13]

If schools like American and U of DC (and others) want to try it out, they can go the IAA non-scholly route for a while to test the waters. It is logical to me to take a low cost approach to see if a new program will fly. It is done in business all the time.

The MAAC would welcome the entries, while giving that conference a much needed boost.

By joining the MAAC, it keeps open the possibilitiy of that conference surviving and possibly following in the footsteps of the NEC into becomming a solid IAA conference, and not just an unwanted stepchild.

I could be wrong, but I believe American would be forced to play in the PL. Since we do not offer athletic scholarships, American would have no other option than their current conference. They could not be like Fordham with the A-10/PL set up. I don't think there is a non-scholarship but grants in aid equivalencies/'true' non-scholarship distinction... but again, I could be wrong.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I could be wrong, but I believe American would be forced to play in the PL. Since we do not offer athletic scholarships, American would have no other option than their current conference. They could not be like Fordham with the A-10/PL set up. I don't think there is a non-scholarship but grants in aid equivalencies/'true' non-scholarship distinction... but again, I could be wrong.

Hard to imagine the PL allowing American to play in the MAAC for football but stay in the PL for all other sports. It could be possible to switch to the MAAC for all sports... but football would not drive that decision.

G'Town was a MAAC school, but they were a football-only school. Switching to the PL as a football-only school was easy.

Basically, evenif it were possible (and, like 13 said, I don't think it is), I don't think that it would make sense for them.

Having said that, if American had the inclination and $$ to play I-AA football, the PL I'm sure would welcome them with open arms.

[89Hen]

Besides George Washington, Two Schools that should have football programs in Washington, DC are:

-American University, Washington, DC-
-University of the District of Columbia, Washington, DC-
Don't know if I'd agree with either RA. AU is a women's school. I'm not talking figuratively either. Their enrollment is about 2/3 women. It also has a huge foreign enrollment. Not that foreigners can't play football, but they'd probably have an easier time developing a cricket or rugby team than a Division I football team.

UDC's athletic department is tiny and the school has NO campus housing. It is 100% commuters. They are DII in other sports so they wouldn't be DI anyway, but I don't see any way that they should/could have football.

As much as I'd like to see more football in DC, I don't see either (nor GW) starting programs.

[R.A.]

Don't know if I'd agree with either RA. AU is a women's school. I'm not talking figuratively either. Their enrollment is about 2/3 women. It also has a huge foreign enrollment. Not that foreigners can't play football, but they'd probably have an easier time developing a cricket or rugby team than a Division I football team.

UDC's athletic department is tiny and the school has NO campus housing. It is 100% commuters. They are DII in other sports so they wouldn't be DI anyway, but I don't see any way that they should/could have football.

As much as I'd like to see more football in DC, I don't see either (nor GW) starting programs.

-UDC Used 2 have a football program. They used to compete in D-II, as I suggested they do if they ever revive football.

-University of the District of Columbia, Washington, DC- Again, Nice Inner City Campus, nice field on campus that other teams at the school use. I see the Firebirds as more of a possible D-II CIAA football program if they were too ever bring it back. The field is nice, but it would need work and a good architectural designer to really turn it into a stadium. There enrollment is 5,000 plus.
-Their athletes, most being from the District of Columbia... commuted the same way most UDC students do now. Their campus is a shining example of how it is not necessary to live on campus, to be a part of your campus life.
-Budget cuts from the city, and a huge court battle between the school and their former football coach over violations, forced UDC to cut programs, including football. But as more attention has been put back onto UDC, discussions about a full athletic/ campus revival have developed.

-As for American, I have to disagree with you again. Their school supports all athletic programs fully. If AU ever decided to bring football to their campus, I feel that not just American students, but the surrounding community would support it. This is a school that draws 2,000 for a soccer game, 4,000 for mens basketball. I would think their attendance numbers would be similar to Howard's and Georgetown's, while also having the budget and facilities to produce winning squads.

[89Hen]

-As for American, I have too disagree with you. Their school supports all athletic programs fully. If AU ever decided to bring football too their campus, I feel that not just American students, but the surrounding community would support it. This is a school that draws 2,000 for a soccer game, 4,000 for mens basketball.
Are we talking about American University in Northwest DC? :confused: Not exactly sure where you're getting your numbers.

AU Men's Basketball attendance...
Mt. St. Mary's - 1036
Towson - 1313
Howard - 1215
Lehigh - 743
Yale - 919
Army - 1421
Lafayette - 1863
Colgate - 1550
Holy Cross - 3438
Navy - 1620

AU Men's Soccer attendance...
Princeton - 456
Drexel - 323
Lafayette - 350
Lehigh - 321
WVU - 186
Colgate - 569
Army - 478
Colgate - 356 PL SEMIFINALS AT THEIR HOME!
Lafayette - 724 PL FINALS AT THEIR HOME!

The surrounding community? You can't be serious. G'town has a surrounding community that does not support football, why would they support AU? They could put up temporary metal bleachers on the track and maybe get 1500-2000 to a football game. The numbers are not on your side on this one.

[R.A.]

Are we talking about American University in Northwest DC? :confused: Not exactly sure where you're getting your numbers.

AU Men's Basketball attendance...
Mt. St. Mary's - 1036
Towson - 1313
Howard - 1215
Lehigh - 743
Yale - 919
Army - 1421
Lafayette - 1863
Colgate - 1550
Holy Cross - 3438
Navy - 1620

AU Men's Soccer attendance...
Princeton - 456
Drexel - 323
Lafayette - 350
Lehigh - 321
WVU - 186
Colgate - 569
Army - 478
Colgate - 356 PL SEMIFINALS AT THEIR HOME!
Lafayette - 724 PL FINALS AT THEIR HOME!

The surrounding community? You can't be serious. G'town has a surrounding community that does not support football, why would they support AU? They could put up temporary metal bleachers on the track and maybe get 1500-2000 to a football game. The numbers are not on your side on this one.

-These are the down years for AU sports. They haven't been consistant winners. So those numbers are expected for a down program at a school like American. Even the numbers you provided was a great example to support my point. Look at the jump between the mens soccer semi, and the soccer final. The conference final produced the largest crowd of the season. You have 2 win year in and year out. As for the mens basketball numbers 3438 for a rivalry game that your fans know the team is probably going to lose...

-Also, you have to keep in mind as far as American is concerned, you aren't necessarily talking about a I-AA major program here like those like Delaware and JMU football in the A-10, or Furman and Georgia Southern in the SoCOn. Even if they do bring football to AU, 2,000- 3,000 for a game is good attendance for a private inner city school like American. And when I speak of support, I'm not talking just about people at a game, I'm talking about the big money pockets the school has. For example, G-Town averages low football attendance numbers, yet they are able to build a fresh new stadium on campus. American has the power to be a similar program. They would be a pefect fit for the other football schools in the Patriot League.

[89Hen]

And when I speak of support, I'm not talking just about people at a game, I'm talking about the big money pockets the school has. For example, G-Town averages low football attendance numbers, yet they are able to build a fresh new stadium on campus. American has the power to be a similar program.
C'mon RA, apples and oranges comparing GU and AU. Also, don't forget it took a LOT of work to get G'town a new facility and it 'aint done yet.

G'town is a member of the Big East and has deep pockets for athletics to begin with. The Hoyas can draw more bball fans for one game than American draws all year (over 18,000 for Syracuse).

Again, you might think I'm against AU having football, but I'd love it if they did, but there is no way you're going to convince me or anyone else that they can establish a football program period.

[R.A.]

-89Hen, I'm not just comparing AU with Georgetown, I'm comparing American to other Patriot League schools that have similar school profiles as AU. It is illogical to say that American can't have a 1-AA football program, when there are numerous examples of schools that have 1-AA programs, without having the type of financial resources, enrollment, alumni base, location, or other means that American has (I don't think I need to name them).

-No American's not Georgtown, but neither is Fordham, Holy Cross, Colgate, Lafayette, Bucknell, etc, etc... and they seem to be doing just fine.

-Furthermore, I find your argument that,
there is no way you're going to convince me or anyone else that they can establish a football program period. weak. Especially since you also made the statement that,
but I don't see any way that they(UDC) should/could have football. when in fact UDC used to have a very good and "capable" football program.

[MarkCCU]

how bout Catholic University?

[R.A.]

how bout Catholic University?

-The Catholic University of America competes in football on the Division III level, as does Galludet University.

[MarkCCU]

i didn't know that..sweet

[R.A.]

-Also, for those who didn't know Galludet is a University for the Deaf. Both Galludet and CUA are consistant winners on the D-III level. They beat down on teams in various sports. If both schools moved up a level to D-II, they would probably be just as competitive as they are now.

[89Hen]

I'm not just comparing AU with Georgetown, I'm comparing American to other Patriot League schools that have similar school profiles as AU. It is illogical to say that American can't have a 1-AA football program, when there are numerous examples of schools that have 1-AA programs, without having the type of financial resources, enrollment, alumni base, location, or other means that American has (I don't think I need to name them).

-No American's not Georgtown, but neither is Fordham, Holy Cross, Colgate, Lafayette, Bucknell, etc, etc... and they seem to be doing just fine.

-Furthermore, I find your argument that, weak. Especially since you also made the statement that, when in fact UDC used to have a very good and "capable" football program.
xlolx
You specifically named Georgetown.

American isn't in the same league as Fordham, Holy Cross, Colgate, Lafayette, Bucknell, etc, etc... in athletics either. Locally, I'd put them on par with Mt. St. Mary's who coincidentally doesn't have football either.

The weak arguement is you overstating AU's attendance by more than double and then backpedalling by saying they're down right now. Did you not notice that the soccer team played in and hosted the Patriot League championship game? You simply made up numbers. If they are down because they are weak, how do you expect anyone to support a weak football program?

As for UDC, what exactly do you mean by a "very good and "capable" football program"? So good and capable that they did away with football? Their athletic program is in such good shape that they had to cancel their 2004-05 basketball seasons because they didn't have enough eligible players and you want them to try to dress 50 players for football?! xlolx A couple years ago the men's soccer team had to forfiet most of the season because of using ineligible players. The athletic program at UDC is a JOKE, END OF STORY. :nonono2:

[89Hen]

American isn't in the same league as Fordham, Holy Cross, Colgate, Lafayette, Bucknell, etc, etc... in athletics either. Locally, I'd put them on par with Mt. St. Mary's who coincidentally doesn't have football either.
BTW, just so I'm clear on this... I don't care about tennis or field hockey or crew... there is a clear heirarchy to college athletics in the mid-atlantic/northeast....

FOOTBALL - American does not field
Men's BBall - American is a .500 team that draws 1200 fans
Baseball - American does not field
Women's BBall - American was 4-10 last year
Men's Soccer - American is good
Men's Lacrosse - American does not field
Ice Hockey - American does not field
Women's Soccer - American is not good
Softball - American does not field
who really cares what comes next

[R.A.]

xlolx
You specifically named Georgetown.

American isn't in the same league as Fordham, Holy Cross, Colgate, Lafayette, Bucknell, etc, etc... in athletics either. Locally, I'd put them on par with Mt. St. Mary's who coincidentally doesn't have football either.

The weak arguement is you overstating AU's attendance by more than double and then backpedalling by saying they're down right now. Did you not notice that the soccer team played in and hosted the Patriot League championship game? You simply made up numbers. If they are down because they are weak, how do you expect anyone to support a weak football program?

As for UDC, what exactly do you mean by a "very good and "capable" football program"? So good and capable that they did away with football? Their athletic program is in such good shape that they had to cancel their 2004-05 basketball seasons because they didn't have enough eligible players and you want them to try to dress 50 players for football?! xlolx A couple years ago the men's soccer team had to forfiet most of the season because of using ineligible players. The athletic program at UDC is a JOKE, END OF STORY. :nonono2:

-I'm not back pedalling one bit. I suppose we are arguing the difference between is(You) and was(Me). I stand by my statements that both schools Should have football teams. Also you are twisting my words a bit. UDC DID have a "very good and capable" football program. There are a nubmer of schools that had strong fooball programs that don't have one now... UMES come to mind.

-As for your American argument I still say it's weak. The numbers I posted were past numbers, when they were winning. This school HAS the potential and ability to have a football program. They fit a similar profile that fits with other Patriot League teams that have 1-AA football programs. They don't have one because they don't want too, not because they can't. And I specifically said Georgtown because they are a Patriot League Football school in DC, like American would be if they made the move.

-Anyway, I'm done arguing this one with you. We're just going to have to disagree with each other and move on from there.

[DFW HOYA]

As to Washington teams:

American is just happy to be in the PL because of the struggles it faced in the CAA. As long as the PL isn't pushing the football issue, AU is in no hurry to revisit it. (The school had a club team into the 1970's.)

George Washington had a major college program until 1966. With their acquisition of Mt. Vernon College, they now have a place to play, but little interest. It's like NYU--no reason that school shouldn't be Div. I, but they don't care.

Catholic would be an ideal MAAC school--it's a peer to places like Loyola, Fairfield, Iona, etc. CUA revived football in 1965 after dropping it, and joined D-III in the 1970's (but was Div. I in hoops in the late 1970's and early 1980's). Its facilities aren't PL level, but it would be a great fit for the MAAC.

Gallaudet rejoins D-III football next year after an extended tour as a club team. Enrollment isssues made it difficult for Gallaudet to compete, but the school has improved of late.

UDC used to play in D-II and actually played games across the street from Georgetown at the old Western HS stadium. (The residents were somehow OK with UDC in the 1970's, but will not let allow Georgetown football up there.) However, the school has a number of institutional issues which have really set athletics back, so much so that the entire 2004-05 basketball season was canceled and no one noticed.

George Mason is overdue for I-AA ball. Period. 30,000 students, no team. A move to upgrade football from club to I-AA fell short by one vote of the trustees in 1998.

Georgetown opens its 105th season (more or less) since 1874 this fall, and while a lot of I-AA fans look down on its attendance, it plays on a very small footprint on the campus, there is no local community turnout, no surface parking left on the campus, and very limited media coverage in a city that is All Redskins, All The Time. Getting the stadium built has to be a priority, but so is winning, too. The Hoyas have struggled as a result of the budget disparity between GU and the other PL schools. Winning, though, brings fans.

[89Hen]

UDC DID have a "very good and capable" football program.

The numbers I posted were past numbers, when they were winning.

They don't have one because they don't want too, not because they can't.
I could fly if I want to, I just don't feel like it. I'm taking my ball and going home. :p

And please enlighten me on the once proud football program of UDC.

American University Men's Basketball Attendance:
2005 - 1,358
2004 - 1,167
2003 - 1,393
2002 - 1,630
2001 - 965
2000 - 2,902
1999 - 2,961
1998 - 2,621
1997 - 2,291
1996 - 1,817
1995 - 1,657
Would you like me to keep going and how long can you keep up your charade?

[UDDave]

Drexel. Not sure where they'd play (Franklin Field? The Linc?), but they'd be a great replacement for West Chester.

[89Hen]

Drexel. Not sure where they'd play (Franklin Field? The Linc?), but they'd be a great replacement for West Chester.
A new Hen fan? Is this DarthDave or DEdave making an appearance on a football board? Can't be.

[blukeys]

Drexel. Not sure where they'd play (Franklin Field? The Linc?), but they'd be a great replacement for West Chester.

Drexel will not field a football team in the 21st century. I can think of a lot of better options for a West Chester replacement then Drexel. Penn, Lehigh and Delstate come to mind. Yes UD played Drexel in the 1940's and it is a frequently played basketball opponent but that neglects the fact that Drexel does not have the financial resources to resurrect football to even the level of a LaSalle.

Temple dropping to I-AA is more likely and they could play at Franklin Field but I don't see either as happening.
:(

[blukeys]

Regarding the RA/89 debate specifically as it applies to AU and only AU. I don't want to deal with UDC, Catholic U, or Gallaudet (who is in a category by themselves)

I did not realize that AU's undergrad enrollment was at 10,000 . My brother is an AU grad and I never thought of AU having that high an enrollment.

IF more I-AA football teams witihin the boundaries of D.C would change the coverage by the Post, Times etc. then I think a concerted effort at AU makes sense.

My observations about I-AA football coverage by the media in D.C. are as follows:

1. The D.C. media prioritizes local College football as Maryland, Navy, Virginia, and then I-AA schools such as Georgetown and Howard who are the equivalents of the local high school teams.

Delaware gets better coverage in local D.C. media when they play Navy then any local I-AA gets for ANY game!!!!!

(For the record the Richmond Times-Dispatch does a much better job of covering ALL Virginia teams in I-AA then either the Washington Post or Times.)

2. D.C. papers will report about a Redskins' players jock itch before it will report an important win by either Howard or Georgetown.

How will AU change this equation?

I ask this question because I would like to see I-AA football succeed in D.C.. Local rivalries should generate local attention. More I-AA schools in the D.C. area can only help the I-AA product. I would love to see GW, AU, and Catholic with football teams as it raises the profile of the sport.

My concerns are these. Would the local Washington media, the Washington Post and Times still consider these schools as High School sports plus?

Would stories about an AU/ GU game still get second billing under the jock itch of a Redskins cornerback?

If the media gives our schools the cold shoulder, How do we deal with it?

[R.A.]

-Wilbon used to cover Howard Athletics. He did a huge commentary that basically said that we don't help ourselves when it comes to athletics, so there's no reason for anyone else... that includes the Post coverage. The reason why I was arguing with 89Hen so much over American's ability to have a 1-AA program is because in many ways, their athletic situation is similar to Howard's.


George Mason is overdue for I-AA ball. Period. 30,000 students, no team. A move to upgrade football from club to I-AA fell short by one vote of the trustees in 1998.

-I wonder why?

[HIU 93]

And please enlighten me on the once proud football program of UDC.


They were very competitive when they were in the CIAA throught the early 1980s. They began to fall apart after that, as much of Washington, DC did in the 1980s.

[UD1993]

AU has 10,000 students of which 6,000 are undergrad.

[henfan]

George Mason is overdue for I-AA ball. Period. 30,000 students, no team. A move to upgrade football from club to I-AA fell short by one vote of the trustees in 1998.

Agreed, and football at least appeared on George Mason's Feb. 2005 Master Plan. Whether or not it ever comes to fruition is anyone's guess.


The Colonial Athletic Association is committed to the expansion of football in the conference. Therefore, considerations have been made to address the potential growth of the club football program to NCAA, Div 1 AA status.

Remaining true to the idea of centralized athletics, the unused land on West Campus adjacent to Braddock Road became an obvious location. A possible alternate location on West Campus may be at the terminus of the new road created by the bridge linking Main Campus to West Campus. This location would mean a less efficient use of the available land because of the position of the stadium in the middle of the site. Locating the future stadium adjacent to Braddock Road provide seasier access, better visibility and more efficient use of the land. A 15,000 seat stadium development with associated parking requires 25 to 40 acres, depending upon developable land area and surface to structured parking ratios.

The Shirley Gate site is best served by remaining available for future development opportunities. Without connection to the local sewer, sewage treatment on site is a development issue. Future development considerations may include football, baseball (in conjunction with a minor league franchise), recreation center, faculty and/or retirement housing and research development park.

More at:
http://facilities.gmu.edu/masterplans/athletics_masterplan_FEB05.pdf

[89Hen]

I did not realize that AU's undergrad enrollment was at 10,000 . My brother is an AU grad and I never thought of AU having that high an enrollment.
Was? It is 5,000 +/- now with 60+% women and high number of foreign students.

[89Hen]

They were very competitive when they were in the CIAA throught the early 1980s. They began to fall apart after that, as much of Washington, DC did in the 1980s.
Thank you HIU. My comment was a bit snide, but I honestly don't ever recall of hearing about UDC football and can't find a single thing on them.

[89Hen]

The reason why I was arguing with 89Hen so much over American's ability to have a 1-AA program is because in many ways, their athletic situation is similar to Howard's.
You've changed programs again?! First you compared them to Georgetown, then it was PL teams, now it's Howard... :p

I still think the best comparison for AU athletics is Mount St. Mary's (even thought the Mount is smaller), but without the local support. People up in Emmitsburg actually come to the games at the Mount (mostly because there's nothing else to do up there). Coincidentally, I went to consecutive away games for the Blue Hens a couple years ago. First to the Mount and a couple days later to AU. There were twice as many people at the Mount game (1432 vs 676)... students, locals, kids, etc... at AU there were students, faculty and that's about it.

The Mount has only 1600 undergrad but almost all live there. AU has 5700 undergrad but they have a large portion that do not live on campus.

The Mount sponsors 15 sports, AU sponsors 14. Similar attendance figures for both schools.

This year's RPI:
Men's Basketball - AU 206, Mount 230
Women's Basketball - Mount 207 , AU 305

[Shockerman]

Wichita State & Boston U are the two that stand out.
Drake and San Diego are the two non-scholys that should step it up.

[bluehenbillk]

Boston University & Delaware State.

[JMU Duke Dog]

After being in California this summer, I think that both Long Beach State and UC-Irvine should seriously consider starting I-AA football programs. :nod:

[GeauxColonels]

I would like to see the University of New Orleans (UNO as it is called in this neck of the woods) start a team. They used to have a healthy rivalry with Nicholls State when we had just a club-level team. Nicholls decided to go varsity with its team and UNO subsequently dropped its club team. I think it would be a perfect fit in the SLC geographically and give the conference a team in the New Orleans market. Let's face it, right now, the New Orleans media doesn't even know Nicholls State exists and they have really reduced the coverage on SLU also.

I think it would be a good rivalry game between Nicholls/UNO and SLU /UNO; plus the school is already D-I (a member of the Sunbelt Conference) in all other sports.

[Go...gate]

Long Beach State hung in as a I-A program for a long time - even had George Allen and Willie Brown as coaches - but finally had to drop the sport altogether in the early 1990's for $$ reasons.

[CrunchGriz]

Football in Alaska..
Can you imagine?? They would definitly need a dome.


Not necessarily. Anchorage, Alaska's largest city (which also has the largest university, UA-Anchorage) has weather not that much colder in the fall than Missoula's (and Bozeman is colder than Missoula):

Averages--

Anchorage:

Month High Low Mean
Sep 55°F 42°F 48°F
Oct 39°F 28°F 33°F
Nov 27°F 14°F 20°F

Missoula:

Month High Low Mean
Sep 71°F 42°F 57°F
Oct 57°F 33°F 45°F
Nov 41°F 25°F 33°F

Okay, maybe it would be a bit chilly for most Southerners, but an Alaska team would most likely be playing Western teams like UM and MSU, who could handle the cold.

It would be hard to get many of the fairly large population of transplanted Texans and Oklahomans (of which there are many in Alaska--oil fields, don't you know) to sit out in the cold long enough to watch games, I must admit.

[chrisattsu]

http://www.i-aa.org/images/articles/35361_iaamap200w-4.jpg

Alaska
Neveda
Wyoming
New Mexico
Nebraska
Kansas
Oklahoma
Minnesota
Wisconsin
Michigan
West Virginia
Vermont

Oklahoma has quite a few D2 schools in the Lonestar Conference. I could see U. Central Oklahoma moving up. They have nearly 16,000 students and are located just outside of Oklahoma City.

There are members of D2 that could make it in 1aa if they decided to move up.
Pitt State (Kansas), Grand Valley State (Michigan)

[MplsBison]

All of the U Wisconsin schools should be forced up to at least DII. Milwaukee or Green Bay could easily support an I-AA team.

It's such BS that the UWs only do DIII.

That division should only be small private schools. :mad: :mad:

[ngineer]

University of Detroit Mercy Titans....Dropped big time football in 1964. They were one of the national powers back in the Rockne era. Gus Dorais played for them, I believe. Now, it's basketball (Dick Vitale coached there in the mid-70's when I was in law school). The old stadium is long gone--but Michigan doesn't have a I-AA team, so that would be my choice..

[TheBisonator]

I think with all the money coming into the coffers at Oral Roberts recently, I think that at least it wouldn't be a stupid thing for them to consider adding a football program. They'd make a GREAT addition to the GWFC. Then Tulsa could have a I-A and a I-AA team. It would be a perfect situation for ORU and Tulsa to play an OOC game once a year.

[MplsBison]

I would think ORU would have a great chance at a football team. And the money to do it right.


I'd actually be scared that they might jump straight into I-A, though.

[NoCoDanny]

What is the enrollment at Oral Roberts?

[GeauxColonels]

I'm not too sure that enrollment figures are as important as people think.

[89Hen]

Anchorage:

Month High Low Mean
Nov 27°F 14°F 20°F

Okay, maybe it would be a bit chilly for most Southerners
By Southerners you mean anyone who lives South of the Arctic Circle? :cool:

[Marcus Garvey]

All of the U Wisconsin schools should be forced up to at least DII. Milwaukee or Green Bay could easily support an I-AA team.

It's such BS that the UWs only do DIII.

That division should only be small private schools. :mad: :mad:

Amen!!! My father's been saying the same thing for years, and I agree. It's not a coincidence that the UW and New Jersey state schools are so dominant in DIII competition. Hugh enrollments (when compared to private liberal arts colleges) and reduced tuition give them an unfair advantage.

[Pauly LB]

University of Vermont should have football. As a former resident, it must kill Vermonters to cheering for New Hampshire.

Also, title IX killed most state university and state college football programs in California. It is also a shame that Cal State Fullerton, Cal State LA, Cal State Northridge and more do not have football programs any more. Orange County in California has some outstanding football talent but the players but most are forced to either go to a junior college (ok, I do know that they prefer to be called "community colleges") or leave the area...

[WUTNDITWAA]

Orange County in California has some outstanding football talent but the players but most are forced to either go to a junior college (ok, I do know that they prefer to be called "community colleges") or leave the area...

Junior College? I feel an Adam Carolla rant coming on.:D

[Marcus Garvey]

University of Vermont should have football. As a former resident, it must kill Vermonters to cheering for New Hampshire.


:deadhorse:

I think this one has been knocked around quite a bit. But your statement isn't clear. Are you speculating that Vermonters hate cheering for UNH, or is that a fact? Near as I've been able to tell, there's been no large group of alumns and residents clamoring for football. The groundswell doesn't seem to be there.

[aceinthehole]

You've changed programs again?! First you compared them to Georgetown, then it was PL teams, now it's Howard... :p

I still think the best comparison for AU athletics is Mount St. Mary's (even thought the Mount is smaller), but without the local support. People up in Emmitsburg actually come to the games at the Mount (mostly because there's nothing else to do up there). Coincidentally, I went to consecutive away games for the Blue Hens a couple years ago. First to the Mount and a couple days later to AU. There were twice as many people at the Mount game (1432 vs 676)... students, locals, kids, etc... at AU there were students, faculty and that's about it.

The Mount has only 1600 undergrad but almost all live there. AU has 5700 undergrad but they have a large portion that do not live on campus.

The Mount sponsors 15 sports, AU sponsors 14. Similar attendance figures for both schools.

This year's RPI:
Men's Basketball - AU 206, Mount 230
Women's Basketball - Mount 207 , AU 305

Very true! I live down the street from AU and know MSM from the NEC.

The Mount has a very pretty campus in almost rural Maryland. It also has a real "collge feel" unlike the AU. The Mount has a very good, although small, athletic program. You're right they get very good local support and the students, while small in numbers, turn out and cheer their team becasue they are on campus.

I went to last season game vs. CCSU and they brough in a local HS pep band and the place was rocking! They would be a top DII program, but can compete in some of the olympic sports at the DI level.

Of course, FB is way out of their league.

[CrunchGriz]

By Southerners you mean anyone who lives South of the Arctic Circle? :cool:

89, you've got to understand the Alaskan psyche to know why these temps don't bother most Alaskans. First, they live in this kind of weather, so they know what to expect and dress accordingly. Second, many of them spend a lot of time in the outdoors anyway (hunting, fishing, kayaking, hiking, boating, etc.). Third, many Alaskans are just plain nuts (no offense to Alaskans, but I was one of you for awhile--consider this comment as an admission).

Alaskans will spend hours standing in the snow to watch a dog sled race. Whether football would rank up there with the Iditarod is another question. My answer: Probably.

Would the stadium require lights? Uh, yeah--for day games.

[89Hen]

they know what to expect and dress accordingly
Yeah, but does Nike have a parka division for unis? You still have to play in it. :twocents:

http://www.athleticturf.net/athleticturf/data/articlestandard/athleticturf/442004/130603/wet_400p.jpg

[DaBears]

I just learned yesterday that my other alma mater --Oklahoma City University is going to NCAA D-I straight from NAIA where it was extremely successful. It is a very similar school to University of Denver and it has loads of donor support. I think a I-AA program would be a perfect fit for OCU. Mayber even a future GWFC football member.

[Pauly LB]

What I meant was that a college football fan living in Vermont does not have a Vermont college choice to support. I guess that the longer you do not have football, the less you need football (or anything else). That there is no ground swell for adding football does not surprise me. Now I live in the Los Angeles Market which used to have two pro football teams at one time (Rams and Raiders). Now that we have not had pro football (unless you want to count USC) for awhile, we have learned to live without it.

[UNH SUPERFAN]

:deadhorse:

I think this one has been knocked around quite a bit. But your statement isn't clear. Are you speculating that Vermonters hate cheering for UNH, or is that a fact? Near as I've been able to tell, there's been no large group of alumns and residents clamoring for football. The groundswell doesn't seem to be there.

I AM IN THIS EXACT SITUATION, I AM A UNH FAN LIVING IN VERMONT. THERE ARE MANY, MANY FOOTBALL FANS HERE WHO WOULD LOVE UVM TO RE-START THEIR FOOTBALL PROGRAM, BUT THIS IS A SMALL STATE WITH LIMITED RESOURCES THAT WOULD NEED A GIANT FINANCIAL ASSIST FROM SOMEWHERE TO MAKE IT HAPPEN. PEOPLE HERE WOULD SUPPORT UVM FOOTBALL, WE HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF THE "US AGAINST THEM" MENTALITY NEEDED TO SUPPORT COLLEGE SPORTS. PEOPLE HERE ARE BLAISE TOWARD UNH BUT FOLLOW ANY VERMONTERS ON THE TEAM.

[TheBisonator]

I've been recently drawing some visionary plans for a Vermont football/track/soccer/lacrosse combo stadium seating 5,500 with expansion for 8,000. I would really like to see DI football in Vermont. I'm very surprised that the alumni/students aren't clamoring for the return of it.

[CrunchGriz]

Yeah, but does Nike have a parka division for unis? You still have to play in it. :twocents:

Well, the Alaskan high school kids have no trouble playing in it, so I expect college kids could do the same.

In fact, Montana's greatest running back ever (to this point--Lex Hilliard is probably going to break his records this year), Yohance Humphery, came from Alaska. (And led the Griz to their last national championship, in 2001.)

And, if Yo was any indication, playing in that weather only makes you tougher.

[89Hen]

Well, the Alaskan high school kids have no trouble playing in it, so I expect college kids could do the same.
North Pole HS Football Schedule
8/25/06 - North Pole @ Juneau 5/8pm
9/2/06 - Wasilla @ North Pole 3/6pm
9/8/06 - Lathrop @ North Pole 3/6pm
9/16/06 - North Pole @ Eielson 10am/1pm
9/23/06 - Palmer @ North Pole 11am/2pm (Senior Night)
9/29/06 - North Pole @ West Valley 3/6pm

Playoffs
10/7/06 - State Quarterfinals
10/14/06 - State Semifinals
10/21/06 - State Championship

Done in the third week of October... right around many college's Homecoming Game.

[Cap'n Cat]

I AM IN THIS EXACT SITUATION, I AM A UNH FAN LIVING IN VERMONT. THERE ARE MANY, MANY FOOTBALL FANS HERE WHO WOULD LOVE UVM TO RE-START THEIR FOOTBALL PROGRAM, BUT THIS IS A SMALL STATE WITH LIMITED RESOURCES THAT WOULD NEED A GIANT FINANCIAL ASSIST FROM SOMEWHERE TO MAKE IT HAPPEN. PEOPLE HERE WOULD SUPPORT UVM FOOTBALL, WE HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF THE "US AGAINST THEM" MENTALITY NEEDED TO SUPPORT COLLEGE SPORTS. PEOPLE HERE ARE BLAISE TOWARD UNH BUT FOLLOW ANY VERMONTERS ON THE TEAM.


Vermont's gotta get Ben & Jerry's or the Grateful Dead to sponsor football.

[Pauly LB]

Vermont has not had football since 1974. Today's young adult Vermonter does not miss what they never had...

[UCI Anteater]

UC-Irvine could start up a football program a few years from now, and to me it seems like I-AA would be a good fit for us.

[lambertjr]

UNC-Asheville
Florida Institute of Technology
The CC system of schools in Florida

I believe only UNC-A would be a DI-AA school

[UCI Anteater]

The CC system of schools in Florida

Do they not participate at the JUCO level?

[UNH SUPERFAN]

Vermont has not had football since 1974. Today's young adult Vermonter does not miss what they never had...
YOU ARE CORRECT, MOST OF THE PEOPLE INTERESTED IN RESURRECTING UVM FOOTBALL ARE LIKE ME, IN THEIR 50'S.

[CrunchGriz]

North Pole HS Football Schedule
8/25/06 - North Pole @ Juneau 5/8pm
9/2/06 - Wasilla @ North Pole 3/6pm
9/8/06 - Lathrop @ North Pole 3/6pm
9/16/06 - North Pole @ Eielson 10am/1pm
9/23/06 - Palmer @ North Pole 11am/2pm (Senior Night)
9/29/06 - North Pole @ West Valley 3/6pm

Playoffs
10/7/06 - State Quarterfinals
10/14/06 - State Semifinals
10/21/06 - State Championship

Done in the third week of October... right around many college's Homecoming Game.

Okay, you wimp, you could have UAA play its home games all before the end of October, then go on the road for November. Happy now? :smiley_wi (Nice detective work, Hen--I wasn't aware that they finished so early.)

(And, as if UA-Anchorage has any plans whatsoever to start a football team--point of fact, both it and especially UA-Fairbanks are hockey schools, if anything. Sometimes they have decent [for small school] basketball teams, and UAA hosts the Great Alaska Shootout every year, which many of you might have seen on ESPN.)

Let's just say that I missed watching live college football when I lived in Alaska in the late '80s.

[MplsBison]

Vermont and Alaska are the only states now that don't have DI football (or any football, for that matter).


Anchorage could easily support a domed team. They'd likely need (not want) an indoor practice facility, as well. I'm sure there are plenty of good AK high school players who never get a shot because there is no where to play in AK after high school.


As for Vermont. What can you say?

It's pretty sad, really.

[WinthropEagleFan]

Football at Winthrop will be tough because of student demographics/Title IX concerns. WU has a 70% female population and there isn't a single Div. I-A or I-AA school that fields a football team with that high of a female/male ratio.

[Frosty The Snowbuff]

Just in the Southland Conference alone there is Texas-Arlington, Lamar and Texas-San Antonio.

Texas A&M-Corpus Christi, which joins the SLC this summer, has stated they would explore football when there enrollment reaches 10,000. I'll believe that when I see it. :twocents:

Other schools that don't have football, but should ...
St. Mary's (Calif.)
Wichita State
Georgia State
Tulane (oh wait, they have football) ;)

Momentarily.......

[UAalum72]

Vermont and ...now that don't have any football, for that matter).

As for Vermont. What can you say?

It's pretty sad, really.
Vermont does have Division III football at Middlebury College
http://www.middlebury.edu/NR/rdonlyres/6784130D-2A5E-4860-B17E-9DFA3E760F41/0/alumni.jpg
and at Norwich University
http://www.norwich.edu/about/map/gfx/sabine2.jpg

[MplsBison]

Ah, thanks. Should've stuck with DI football.

Vermont needs football, damnit! Get your asses in gear and join up with NH and Maine.

[SoCon48]

This has been an ongoing discussion in the Charlotte area.
UNC Charlotte does not have football and a lot of alumn and locals say that they should. I sort of agree.
Any other instutions that don't... but should?
Elon.

[Marcus Garvey]

Vermont does have Division III football at Middlebury College
and at Norwich University


Actually, I'd say they have 1 DIII team: Norwich.
The other is an overgrown high school team! xlolx xlolx xlolx
Unless things have changed since the late 90's, the NESCAC is the sloppiest, chippiest DIII football league around. I'd love to see them play non-conf. games and get a$$-hammered.

[SactoHornetFan]

Oklahoma has quite a few D2 schools in the Lonestar Conference. I could see U. Central Oklahoma moving up. They have nearly 16,000 students and are located just outside of Oklahoma City.

There are members of D2 that could make it in 1aa if they decided to move up.
Pitt State (Kansas), Grand Valley State (Michigan)

OK schools in a conference that's named after Texas' nickname. Classic. OK is still Texas' you-know-what xlolx

[SouthernEagle02]

Kennesaw State. I'd love to see a I-AA pop up in my hometown (Marietta, GA, about 10 mins away)...and I'd also love to see all the GSU fans freak out about it. Win, win as far as I'm concerned. I heard a while back that they were thinking about it. Their basketball program had a very solid year, though I'm not sure what conference they are in. Space for a stadium might be an issue.
Actually about two years ago when Wal-Mart wanted to build a bigger store, the school looked at purchasing the old Wal-Mart site over off George Busbee Pkwy with the intent on building a facility capable of hosting football games. Don't think it went through becuase its now a PGA store. And the thought of KSU having a football team doesn't scare me, because hopefully by that time we will have moved up. But who knows what will happen when the new president takes over at KSU. I'd like to see Mercer University in Macon, GA or University of West Florida in Pennsecola start football programs.

[chrisattsu]

OK schools in a conference that's named after Texas' nickname. Classic. OK is still Texas' you-know-what xlolx

Well, we also have a school from New Mexico (Eastern NM) in the conference as well. It really is funny, the LSC is broken in the North and South Divisions and the North is based entirely in Oklahoma with the exception of TX A&M-Commerce. There are other schools in the conference that geographically would be better in the north Midwestern State (Witchita Falls) or West Texas A&M just because of their proximities to the Oklahoma border.

[Maroons]

Northern Kentucky University is planning on getting a football team. Not sure if it's going to be I-AA or lower. Right now they play Div II in all sports but are planning on moving up.

Unless something has changed completely below the media radar, this is pure speculation.

At one point, about 3-4 years ago NKU did a feasability study for football and decided they were not ready to start a program. That is as close as they have gotten and they are not having discussions now, I don't believe. A builder named Bill Erpenbeck was a huge proponent of NKU adding football and promised to contribute a large amount of money to a program. About 6 months later he was arrested for bank fraud and now he is quite the public enemy.

It is true that NKU plays in the D-II GLVC, but they are not "planning on moving up." Just a year ago they did a feasability study on a move to D-I and very publicly announced that they would keep the focus on academics and remain in D-II for the foreseeable future. Apparently, the study showed that they would have to spend many millions on facility upgrades and add several sports. They were unwilling to do either. NKU remains a D-II Soccer/Basketball/Volleyball school. Or something.

But I'd like to see them play football. Xavier too. And ETSU.

[EKU05]

Whether it's going to happen or not, it's also worth noting that the focus at NKU was always on moving up. Any decision on a sport like football was always on the back burner when compared to simply getting to D1 and getting established. Whether they move or not it is a fairly safe bet that you won't see the Norse playing football anytime soon.

[UNH SUPERFAN]

Vermont and Alaska are the only states now that don't have DI football (or any football, for that matter).


Anchorage could easily support a domed team. They'd likely need (not want) an indoor practice facility, as well. I'm sure there are plenty of good AK high school players who never get a shot because there is no where to play in AK after high school.


As for Vermont. What can you say?

It's pretty sad, really.
THE IRONY IN VERMONT IS THAT HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL IS A REAL GROWTH SPORT HERE. IN THE LAST 12-15 YEARS NINE HIGH SCHOOLS IN THIS VERY SMALL STATE HAVE ADDED FOOTBALL PROGRAMS, A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER WHEN YOU LOOK AT OUR POPULATION (600K). SOME OF THOSE SCHOOLS HAVE PRODUCED SOME TOP-NOTCH 1AA PLAYERS. IF UVM HAD A PROGRAM, HOWEVER, THE HIGH SCHOOL PROGRAMS WOULD BENEFIT AS PROGRAMS IN NH DO, FROM EX-COLLEGE FOOTBALL PLAYERS WHO GET COACHING JOBS NEAR THEIR ALMA MATER AND THUS RAISE THE LEVEL OF HIGH SCHOOL PLAY.

THE UVM PRESIDENT DANIEL FOGEL CAME FROM LSU SO THERE IS ALWAYS HOPE THAT HE WILL SEE THE LIGHT.

[JMU1992]

The rumor I heard was the they would Morris Brown's Hernden stadium. The stadium is about 10 years old and was build during the Olympics. MBC has dropped football and it's a perfect I-AA stadium on the footsteps of downtown. Recently, the now defunct women pro soccer team used the stadium.

This is a picture of the Morris Brown stadium.This would make a pretty nice I-AA stadium for Ga. St. and is not far from their campus.

[Lionsrking]

Whatever happened to the U of South Alabama's attempt to start a football program? I know they did a feasibility study several years ago and there was talk about them fielding a non-scholarship I-AA program to begin around 2007 but I haven't heard much more about in the last couple of years. They are sitting on a football gold mine there in Mobile. Nice campus, tremendous recruiting base, and pretty good fan support for the other sports.

[GeauxColonels]

This is a picture of the Morris Brown stadium.This would make a pretty nice I-AA stadium for Ga. St. and is not far from their campus.
Looks like a GREAT facility in nice shape (except for the crappy astro-turf playing surface :nonono2:). It was mentioned that they built the stadium for the Olympics in 1996, what sports was it used for?

[MplsBison]

Whatever happened to the U of South Alabama's attempt to start a football program? I know they did a feasibility study several years ago and there was talk about them fielding a non-scholarship I-AA program to begin around 2007 but I haven't heard much more about in the last couple of years. They are sitting on a football gold mine there in Mobile. Nice campus, tremendous recruiting base, and pretty good fan support for the other sports.

And they have an I-A level stadium around town.

http://espn-att.starwave.com/media/ncf/2005/0123/photo/seniorbowl_il.jpg

[Mr. C]

Also, title IX killed most state university and state college football programs in California. It is also a shame that Cal State Fullerton, Cal State LA, Cal State Northridge and more do not have football programs any more. Orange County in California has some outstanding football talent but the players but most are forced to either go to a junior college (ok, I do know that they prefer to be called "community colleges") or leave the area...
Title IX wasn't what killed college football at these California schools. It might have been one contributing factor well down the list, but it wasn't close to the main reason. You have to throw Cal State Long Beach and Cal Poly Pomona in there too. All of these schools used to play in the same conference together when I was a kid, a league that included San Diego State (a college division powerhouse, under Don Coryell), San Jose State, Fresno State and UOP (Pacific, which is a fine private school and has a long and storied football tradition). The conference eventually became the PCAA and then was renamed the Big West (because they had a contract with ESPN for those Big Monday basketball games, along with the Big East and the Big 10 at that time).

Teams like San Diego State, San Joes State and Fresno State always had a lot more support (yes, San Jose State was good in those days) than the L.A. area schools. No one gave a rip about CSUF, Long Beach State, CSUN (then known as San Fernando State), Pomona and Los Angeles State because they were all commuter schools and they were usually pretty bad. Everyone in Los Angeles either supported USC or UCLA, even if they attended these other schools. Many of the community colleges had much more support.

Things got worse in the mid 1970s when Howard Jarvis and Paul Gann came on the scene and got the Jarvis-Gann Iniative passed. That capped and cut property taxes and tore apart the infrastructure in California. School funding (at all levels) dipped tremendous, the roads got bad etc. Jarvis-Gann had a much bigger impact than Title IX.

But in reality, all of these schools were looking for reasons to drop football, because they were so bad at it. Long Beach State had a brief upturn when George Allen (who was very popular because of his days coaching the LA Rams) became the coach, but when he died and left the program to ex-Raider Willie Brown, the school took the excuse to kill the program. Fullerton was among th worst programs in I-A, except for two years when future CFL MVP Damon Allen was starting at quarterback. LA State had dropped to D-II a long way back and was never very good. Pomona was horrible (always at the bottom of the league standings) and also took its athletic program to D-II.

CSUN was a middle of the pack school as San Fernando State and eventually found its way to the Big Sky in I-AA. That program should have survived, but it was undercut by terrible administrators, horrible ADs, bad coaches who cheated and got NCAA sanctions placed on the program and a lack of fans. If promoted right (even the Sports Information department was terrible there in my days at the Los Angeles Times, when I occasionally covered CSUN athletics), this is a program that could come back and be somewhat successful. They had some fun players to watch (anyone remember QB Marcus Brady?) and I'd like to see them come back, maybe as a Great West member. They still have their stadium. Their situation was similar in some ways to East Tennessee State, particularly from the administrative support side.

UOP, located in the Central Valley, between Fresno and Sacramento, is a school that could restart football when it gets rid of the president who killed it. There are some serious dollars from that alumni group and Stockton, Ca. is one of the fastest growing cities in America right now. They also already have their stadium. It would be a great time to restart this program.

[Mr. C]

The University of Vermont.... The only state in the country without at least a Division I-AA football program. The sad thing is that they would actually be a pretty good team. Believe it or not there have been some good players to come out of the state of Vermont recently and were forced to play in another state. Players like Former Arizona Cardinal back up QB Sean Keenan, former UMaine standout QB Jake Eaton, UNH OG Tucker Peterson, UNH LB/S Muji Karim, UNH LB Hussain Karim, former UMass OG Jake Ward, and most impressive of all David Ball WR at UNH. If they had a program there they would attract players because the great college town that is Burlington, VT, it is also a beautifull area. It is an absolute crime that they do not have a program at UVM and personally as a Vermonter I find it an embarrassment.
You forgot to mention another pretty good Vermont player, All-A-10 defensive end George Peterson. :smiley_wi :D xlolx xlolx xlolx

[Mr. C]

All the big schools in California that dropped football/never had it - Fullerton, Long Beach, Santa Barbara, Irvine, Bakersfield, San Bernardino, etc

St. Mary's would be low on my list - it's a tiny school that would fit in well with its WCC brethren in a non/limited schollie league, but not fully funded I-AA. It'd be nice if they all sat down and agreed to start up a league and play each other, along with UOP and USD
Funny story about Cal State Bakersfield. When I lived in Bakersfield in the early 1980s, the beleaguered Bakersfield Californian newspaper (no, I'm not bitter they didn't hire me to that sports job) ran this ill-advised April Fools joke on page one of sports, announcing that this rich Arab oilman (Bakersfield is an oil center in California) was throwing a bunch of money into the program to build a stadium and fund a football program (they already have some of the best prep and community college football in the state around these parts) at CSB. People didn't find the joke very funny and the newspaper got absolutely castigated in the following days.

St. Mary's was all set to be one of the founding members of the Great West Conference when they embarrassed the league by dropping their program. Slick move there from the Gaels:confused:

[Mr. C]

Where would USF play? They used to play in old Kezar Stadium. I imagine they'd have to play in the new, smaller stadium built on it's site. At least Pacific still has a facility.

But stadium aside, does USF have the room for practice facilities? That was a big reason why Canisius, in Buffalo, decided to drop football.
Kezar Stadium is still around and still used for stuff like high school games, I was just at Kezar Stadium (the longtime home of the San Francisco 49ers) last year. It is quite a place, complete with its Art Deco look and location in historic Golden Gate Park (just a few blocks away from the Haight-Asbury district, by the way). USF is located just a short distance away from Kezar, which is one of the reasons the Dons played there. I doubt that a practice facility would be much of a problem. The bigger problem is that catholic schools like USF (and Santa Clara) just decided to stop funding football and put more of their money into basketball and soccer.

[ucdtim17]

UOP, located in the Central Valley, between Fresno and Sacramento, is a school that could restart football when it gets rid of the president who killed it. There are some serious dollars from that alumni group and Stockton, Ca. is one of the fastest growing cities in America right now. They also already have their stadium. It would be a great time to restart this program.

Ted Leland is going back there so now maybe we'll start hearing things about football. As I said, it'd be nice if all those schools mentioned would get together and form a limited/non schollie conference and play each other as they grew their programs. It's just about impossible for any one of those schools to jump in by themselves, but if they all did it at once, it might work

[Marcus Garvey]

The funny thing about Pacific having no football program is that there are two former U of P players who are head coaches in the Pac-10:
Pete Carrol at USC and Walt Harris at Stanford.

[Mike Johnson]

I think another issue that the CA state schools could have (as does SUNY and others) is that the stae system allow lateral transfers, for academics. I am not certain how this NCAA treats this, as they do not technically transfer completely out of the school. Perhaps people out there can tell us.

This is an interesting point. The Division I Handbook talks about branch campuses in the transfer rules. From what I got out of it, if the branch campus has athletics any transfer to an institution that is not the parent institution of the branch campus is considered a transfer. Transferring to the parent is not. If the branch campus does not have athletics, it is only considered a transfer if the student athlete attended a school with athletics immediately before attending the branch campus without athletics (i.e., the student-athlete can't get out of the rules by going to summer school at a branch campus without athletics in-between transfering to another school).

I am not sure how this applies to the CSU. Are the different campuses separate schools or branch campuses? If branch campuses, which is the parent institution? San Jose State?

That said, I imagine this issue would not be just for football, but for all sports.

[Mike Johnson]

If a lot of the CSU schools brought back football, it would be like the old Western Football Conference of the 70's and 80's which was a D2 confernce.


The WAC of the 70s and 80s was never a D-2 conference. It started as a "University Division" then was an original "Division I" conference and was an original "IA" conference. Of course, most of the teams that were in the WAC then are in the Mountain West or the PAC Ten (Arizona, Arizona State) now. Hawaii and Fresno State (late 80s for Fresno State) are still in the WAC and UTEP is in Conference USA.

Of the current WAC members I can't think of one that was ever in Division II (since that classification began in the early 70s).

[Death Dealer]

College of Charleston and ETSU (should bring it back).

[andy7171]

JMU has a 64% female student body. It's a lot of female scholarships, obviously, but not impossible. Of course, JMU is over 15k students, much larger than Winthrop.
Towson is pretty high too. I'd say like 65-68% female to male population. And Towson is at 19K students.

As for a school that needs a football program, I don't think I saw anyone mention UMBC. They have a big campus, student population and a fairly big stadium that they use for LaCrosse and track. Only problem is that UMBC is even more of a communter school than Towson is, so they'd be cursed with low attendance and general lack of student support even worse than Towson.

Frostburg State in Western Maryland has a long history of sucessfull DIII football. Maryland doesn't have a DII school, they could move up and be sucessful.

[MarkCCU]

College of Charleston and ETSU (should bring it back).

CofC doesn't need one. They are a good basketball/baseball school, i gotta give them that. If CofC had one, it would be nice to see a CofC/El Cid game...the battle for Charleston:p

[PL28]

Cal Poly Pomona use to have one in the late 80s but was cancelled. I the the student body of the school is around 20 K plus. So I suprised they haven't started it back up yet.

[YaleFootballFan]

University of New Haven (at least D-II)
Boston University

Both schools recently dropped their football programs and still have the facilities if they should ever bring football back. It's still hard to imagine Nickerson Field without football.....

[AZGrizFan]

Alright, I'll say it:

University of Phoenix


Oh. Wait. They now own the Division II Arizona Cardinals.


Never mind.

[th0m]

Football at Winthrop will be tough because of student demographics/Title IX concerns. WU has a 70% female population and there isn't a single Div. I-A or I-AA school that fields a football team with that high of a female/male ratio.

JMU has a 64% female student body. It's a lot of female scholarships, obviously, but not impossible. Of course, JMU is over 15k students, much larger than Winthrop.