More Conferences Speak Out On 5-Year Eligibility

[superman7515]

LA Times - Sports Network (http://www.latimes.com/sports/sns-tsn-agn-shapiro-column-fifth-year20110804,0,2561812.story?page=1)


Philadelphia, PA — Tim Donnelly has completed one pass in his collegiate career.

It's a pass that could go down in infamy, not on a national stage, but at least for Donnelly as it may have shortened his college career by a full season.

A sophomore at Delaware last season, Donnelly was supposed to redshirt and save one year of eligibility as the quarterback duties for the Blue Hens were in the more-than-capable hands of Pat Devlin and backup Trevor Sasek.

However, that proved not to be the case.

Leading 41-0 in the ninth game of the season, and Sasek already out with an injury, Delaware coach K.C. Keeler was faced with the difficult decision to leave Devlin in to close out the blowout or burn Donnelly's redshirt.

Donnelly played 10 snaps, which will limit the quarterback from taking advantage of his redshirt season.

It's a difficult decision, but it's one that Colonial Athletic Association commissioner Tom Yeager feels shouldn't have been an issue, if not for what he believes is the current flawed eligibility system....

[ccd494]

Reaching a majority doesn't seem like that large of an obstacle - of the eight conference commissioners available for comment, only Ivy League commissioner Robin Harris and Patriot League commissioner Carolyn Femovich were openly opposed to the idea.

"Is this how it was done in 1894? No? Then forget it!" - new Patriot and Ivy League motto.

[bonarae]

"Is this how it was done in 1894? No? Then forget it!" - new Patriot and Ivy League motto.

but then why do a few Ivy players play 5 or 6 years? Medical hardships/redshirts are the reason. 5 years is just too much for most players in the Ivy. anyway, they learn much in the academe that athletics is like an afterthought for most of them...

[Bogus Megapardus]

"Is this how it was done in 1894? No? Then forget it!" - new Patriot and Ivy League motto.

League rules in the Ivy and Patriot prohibit redshirting. Our players aren't on scholarship. It's unfair to put parents in the position of financing an extra year of expensive tuition because of a coach's decision. Also, Army and Navy are PL members. They simply do not put a kid through a fifth year of Academy training because a basketball or baseball coach wants to redshirt him while he develops.

So it has nothing to do with 1984. I know that the Patriot League rules seem odd, archaic and out of touch with the rest of FCS, but there's a reason for those rules and it works for us. It certainly wouldn't work in the CAA or SoCon, but it works for us.

[dgtw]

Navy redshirted Napoleon McCallum.

With the score 41-0, could the coach have not put someone else in there to tkae snaps and hand the ball off and burn the rest of the clock?

[Bogus Megapardus]

Navy redshirted Napoleon McCallum.

With the score 41-0, could the coach have not put someone else in there to tkae snaps and hand the ball off and burn the rest of the clock?

Napoleon McCallum played for Navy 30 years ago, before the Patriot League. Besides, the PL does allow limited injury redshirts, but they are used somewhat infrequently (compared to most other schools).

As for 41-0 blowout, it's simple - Keeler should simply have treated Donnelly as if he was not a roster player and was not eligible to play. He knew the rules. Why blow the kid's redshirt like that? If Keeler says to the kid, "you're going in," what's Donnelly supposed to do, stand there on the sideline, mid-game, and argue with his coach about his redshirt?

This is all on Keeler, and he knew better - or at least he should have.

[ccd494]

League rules in the Ivy and Patriot prohibit redshirting. Our players aren't on scholarship. It's unfair to put parents in the position of financing an extra year of expensive tuition because of a coach's decision. Also, Army and Navy are PL members. They simply do not put a kid through a fifth year of Academy training because a basketball or baseball coach wants to redshirt him while he develops.

So it has nothing to do with 1984. I know that the Patriot League rules seem odd, archaic and out of touch with the rest of FCS, but there's a reason for those rules and it works for us. It certainly wouldn't work in the CAA or SoCon, but it works for us.

1. I said 1894, not 1984. This is a 21st century idea. The rest of us are waiting for you to join the 20th century, let alone the 21st.

2. Oh, you're special. I hadn't caught on to that, based upon the number of times you say things like "our academics are harder!" or "our student athletes are truly students, and need to spend more time in the classroom!" or "please have my manservant bring the Lexus around!" You know who else has difficult academics? William & Mary. They seem to be able to get their **** together and act like a normal university. But I get it, you're more special than William & Mary. You are a place where you are a true institution of higher learning and you won't sacrifice your values or deign to behave like a Villanova or a Furman or a shudder public institution like Delaware!

You know who else feels that way? Washington U. And NYU. And Johns Hopkins (except for lacrosse which is okay to treat athletes differently because they are rich and white). A long time ago, the NCAA recognized these intractable differences and created a division just for those schools to play in. They called it Division III. Instead of spending most of your time trying to hold back change and progress that would force you to fall further and further behind, why don't you go play with the schools that actually agree with you! I know part of the reason, then you won't be special anymore. But there's a solution to that, too! There are even schools in D-III who feel more special than the rest of D-III! You, too, can be like Williams and Amherst and Middlebury and Colby and Bates and Bowdoin and refuse to play anyone but each other in football! Because playing a non-conference schedule and the playoffs would just be too much.

[ThompsonThe]

Napoleon McCallum played for Navy 30 years ago, before the Patriot League. Besides, the PL does allow limited injury redshirts, but they are used somewhat infrequently (compared to most other schools).

As for 41-0 blowout, it's simple - Keeler should simply have treated Donnelly as if he was not a roster player and was not eligible to play. He knew the rules. Why blow the kid's redshirt like that? If Keeler says to the kid, "you're going in," what's Donnelly supposed to do, stand there on the sideline, mid-game, and argue with his coach about his redshirt?

This is all on Keeler, and he knew better - or at least he should have.

Looks as if they could have even run those plays without a QB with such a huge lead.

[Tribal]

William & Mary is also a public institution. W&M is pushing hard for the 5th year. This doesn't work for the Ivies, because, as someone aptly stated, they are offer no athletic scholarships. This is why a 5th year should be an option...like scholarships, if the Ivies don't want to offer them, they shouldn't have to make them available. Something else that seems to receive little recognition: The Ivies offer lots of financial aide to their students. A good football player from a low-income zip code somehow manages to pay his tuition without calling his school's aide an "athletic scholarship." My friend played o-line at Harvard. He managed to graduate with minimal debt. I know his parents well and, in 1993 anyway, they were a low-middle class family. His sister attended Syracuse and she is still paying for her student loans. Go figure.

[Bogus Megapardus]

A long time ago, the NCAA recognized these intractable differences and created a division just for those schools to play in. They called it Division III.

Actually, it was the "small college division" (of which Maine was a part) and the "university division/major college" (of which most of the PL was a part). Then came the new classifications in 1972, when Maine went to Division II - a new classification created just for places like Maine who couldn't cut it with the Big Boys. A few years later, 1-AA came into being and Maine moved there, even though it had played a Division III-level schedule (Bates/Colby/Bowdoin) for most of its history (unlike the PL schools) and probably belonged in Division III itself. Maine does not, and never has, played at the major college/Division 1A level, unlike the members of the PL.

If Maine isn't satisfied with its FCS existence, which means tolerating (and even associating with) Patriot League schools, then why doesn't it "join the twenty-first century" and play at the FBS level, like just about every other taxpayer-funded flagship state university in the United States? It seems to me that it's your problem, not ours.

Your comments indicate a complete lack of information about the Patriot League, its members and their students, and the origins of the NCAA divisional classification system. Why don't you come to a PL football practice and ask how many players drive Lexii with manservants? I'll give you odds that it's a lot less than in the effete Orono countryside.

[dgtw]

Napoleon McCallum played for Navy 30 years ago, before the Patriot League. Besides, the PL does allow limited injury redshirts, but they are used somewhat infrequently (compared to most other schools).

As for 41-0 blowout, it's simple - Keeler should simply have treated Donnelly as if he was not a roster player and was not eligible to play. He knew the rules. Why blow the kid's redshirt like that? If Keeler says to the kid, "you're going in," what's Donnelly supposed to do, stand there on the sideline, mid-game, and argue with his coach about his redshirt?

This is all on Keeler, and he knew better - or at least he should have.

I mentioned McCallum because someone said the acadamies don't redshirt. Obviously allowances can be made if they have a Heisman candidate. I also certainly wasn't blaming Donnely for playing in that game. It was obviously a stupid coaching decision.

I have no ties to the PL or Ivy League, but I do not support a fifth year of eligibility on any level.

[DTSpider]

A QB Delaware recruited from high school, I have to imagine that Keeler was thinking that it doesn't matter if he burns a year, the kid is just a placeholder until a FBS transfer becomes available. :)

[ccd494]

Actually, it was the "small college division" (of which Maine was a part) and the "university division/major college" (of which most of the PL was a part). Then came the new classifications in 1972, when Maine went to Division II - a new classification created just for places like Maine who couldn't cut it with the Big Boys. A few years later, 1-AA came into being and Maine moved there, even though it had played a Division III-level schedule (Bates/Colby/Bowdoin) for most of its history (unlike the PL schools) and probably belonged in Division III itself. Maine does not, and never has, played at the major college/Division 1A level, unlike the members of the PL.

If Maine isn't satisfied with its FCS existence, which means tolerating (and even associating with) Patriot League schools, then why doesn't it "join the twenty-first century" and play at the FBS level, like just about every other taxpayer-funded flagship state university in the United States? It seems to me that it's your problem, not ours.

Your comments indicate a complete lack of information about the Patriot League, its members and their students, and the origins of the NCAA divisional classification system. Why don't you come to a PL football practice and ask how many players drive Lexii with manservants? I'll give you odds that it's a lot less than in the effete Orono countryside.

I get that history. Maine's right where it wants to be- in the division that offers 63 scholarships. My problem (and not Maine's problem) is with the Patriot voting against every proposal out there because they hold an oddball view of the world and refuse to get with anything close to resembling the times.

[DJOM]

Pioneer League is non-scholarship and provides for red-shirting.
Aid is need and academically based.
Argument regarding cost; not as expensive as Ivy but is expensive; is counter-balanced by opportunity to begin advanced degrees while playing football.

Coach made a terrible self centered short sighted decision.

Coach at Drake did similar stunt 3 years ago. He decided players had broken a team rule so he suspended 41 of them before their first game and broke redshirts just to field a team.

[DFW HOYA]

Argument regarding cost; not as expensive as Ivy but is expensive; is counter-balanced by opportunity to begin advanced degrees while playing football.

Who is going to begin an advanced degree playing football in the Patriot? Holy Cross and Lafayette don't even have a graduate school, Colgate has less than 20 postgrad students and Bucknell's grad programs total less than 150 students.

[dgtw]

So get your degree in four years and leave. If you have a year left of eligibility, you can go elsewhere for grad school and play one more year.