Angelo State to the SLC?

[TexasTerror]

Angelo State is getting a consulting firm together to figure out what they are doing. As I indicated to a few of my colleagues on KatFans.com and elsewhere, there are at least three schools at the Division II level in Texas reviewing a move to Div I.

Angelo State is one. Abilene Christian is one. Believe the other is Texas A&M-Commerce...


Angelo State Athletic supporters and many other sports fans across the state will be paying close attention to the Rams Athletic Program over the next several months for activity taking place off the fields of play. Athletic Director Kathleen Brasfield has confirmed that an outside consulting firm will be hired to do an assessment of all aspects of the program. The consulting firm will help determine where Angelo State best fits into the athletic scene moving forward, whether that be staying with the Lone Star Conference or explore options to move to the Division One level. The assessment will include things such as Finances, Academics, Facilities, and Title 9. The in depth process will also include the community and is expected to begin sometime during the fall semester and carry into the spring. We should add that this will be funded by outside resources gathered by the Athletic Foundation. Stay tuned for more information in the coming months.

http://conchovalleyhomepage.com/fulltext?nxd_id=131317

LSC MB thread... http://www.d2messageboard.com/showthread.php?42271-ASU

AGS thread on ACU... http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?83992-Abilene-Christian-amp-Div-I

[TheRevSFA]

I kind of like the idea of A&M Commerce...ACU and Angelo State make sense though...

[DFW HOYA]

A few more years of this and the SLC will be calling Austin College and McMurry to the table.

[TheRevSFA]

Sul Ross State is LIVID that you didn't mention them, Hoya.

[DFW HOYA]

Sul Ross State is LIVID that you didn't mention them, Hoya.

Alpine makes San Angelo look like Hollywood. The closest mall is 150 miles away. (Really)

http://www.sulross.edu/pages/3589.asp

[TheRevSFA]

Alpine is a neat town to go see if you appreciate art, enjoy dry air, and like being in the middle of nowhere.

[TheTSUGrad]

All those schools would be ok. Commerce is not that great on facilities, ASU or ACU would both be quite better facility wise, but its large and a good location for the SLC. I think Tarleton would have just as good as a loacation & better facilities the Commerce, its just not as large. Ive heard it could still be in the mix instead of ACU but maybe its just wishful thinking.

[TexasTerror]

Editorial...


SAN ANGELO, Texas — March 2016, first round of the NCAA men's basketball tournament, Duke vs. ... Angelo State University?

It could happen. This fall ASU will begin an evaluation of whether it should enter Division I of the NCAA. Angelo State would compete for championships against major universities in all sports except football, where it would play in the Football Championship Subdivision, which used to be called Division I-AA.

Good idea? That will be decided formally early next year after the assessment has been completed. Count me among the alumni and fans who will need to be swayed that it would be a wise move.

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2011/aug/16/jack-cowan-bring-on-the-blue-devils-lets-think/

[blackfordpu]

I don't care who they add so long as it does not affect the competition level of the SLC. The more good teams the better chance of an extra team or two in the playoffs.

[TexasTerror]

I don't care who they add so long as it does not affect the competition level of the SLC. The more good teams the better chance of an extra team or two in the playoffs.

The competition level in the SLC is already heading downward with the addition of new football teams in the region at UT-San Antonio and Lamar, plus more FBS offerings (with Texas St-San Marcos). More scholarships to go around.

Other factors - if North Alabama goes FCS (going from 36 to 63 scholarships), that will have some impact on the Louisiana schools (particularly with Mississippi JUCOs and Div I transfers in the region, I would suspect). If West Florida and New Orleans add Division II teams as they intend to do, I would be interested in what impact that has on southeast Louisiana and into Mississippi.

And getting multiple teams in the playoffs is going to be difficult due to the financial implications on the Louisiana schools. The fact that SLU, Nicholls and NWST routinely have to play multiple guarantee games makes it difficult.

[DG Cowboy]

OK, where did the SLC competition level head when the Gulf Star schools moved up to the SLC? I think Sam, SFA, SW Tx all did pretty well for themselves and the SLC.You take solid programs and you grow them to the FCS level. Angelo State, ACU, and TAMU-Commerce will all do just fine if they commit to moving up. Will it take a little time? Sure. Is the SLC dominating FCS now? No. So what's the big deal? Where were all the Dakota schools ten years ago? Where are they now? They moved up and they can find the recruits.

[TexasTerror]

OK, where did the SLC competition level head when the Gulf Star schools moved up to the SLC? I think Sam, SFA, SW Tx all did pretty well for themselves and the SLC.You take solid programs and you grow them to the FCS level. Angelo State, ACU, and TAMU-Commerce will all do just fine if they commit to moving up. Will it take a little time? Sure. Is the SLC dominating FCS now? No. So what's the big deal? Where were all the Dakota schools ten years ago? Where are they now? They moved up and they can find the recruits.

Some of these Texas schools have the potential of entering the SLC with budgets that exceed most, if not all of the non-Texas schools. That will allow them to compete at a much higher level than some of their would-be rivals.

As you said - it is all about coming in with the resources and University commitment to Division I. It can't be a school that just values the "Division I" monicker and is not committed to having a viable Division I program as at least one current SLC school does, but it needs to be an overall commitment to having a solid low-to-mid major program. The Dakotas clearly did that...

[jhanel]

Some of these Texas schools have the potential of entering the SLC with budgets that exceed most, if not all of the non-Texas schools. That will allow them to compete at a much higher level than some of their would-be rivals.

As you said - it is all about coming in with the resources and University commitment to Division I. It can't be a school that just values the "Division I" monicker and is not committed to having a viable Division I program as at least one current SLC school does, but it needs to be an overall commitment to having a solid low-to-mid major program. The Dakotas clearly did that...

...and who would that be?

[katstrapper]

Terror,

WHAT do you mean the competition level in SLC is headed downward? I think the level of Southland Football is fine. Look at the preseason polls and tell me how many teams you see in the top 25 from the SLC (McNeese, Central Ark and SFA) and how many you see getting votes (SHSU and NW State)?xconfusedx

Angelo State is a solid program and has been for years. They are always competitive and if anyone has seen them live, they are always BIG! I dont think they would have ANY problem competing in the SLC.

[TexasTerror]

...and who would that be?

No comment... let you guys determine for yourself.


WHAT do you mean the competition level in SLC is headed downward? I think the level of Southland Football is fine. Look at the preseason polls and tell me how many teams you see in the top 25 from the SLC (McNeese, Central Ark and SFA) and how many you see getting votes (SHSU and NW State)?xconfusedx

The preseason polls always have plenty of votes to go around...

The league is competitive, but the quality of players seems to be going down a bit. There are many more scholarship opportunities in the immediate vicinity from the Div II (Incarnate Word) up to Div I (Lamar, UTSA, South Alabama and even increase of scholarships to FBS - TXST). Add in the likelihood of Houston Baptist adding the sport, throw in several possible D2 up-starts and a few of these Div II schools looking at Div I throughout region and there you...

The best term may be to call it, "there are more mouths to feed". I'll leave changes to budgets and admission requirements out of this one...


Angelo State is a solid program and has been for years. They are always competitive and if anyone has seen them live, they are always BIG! I dont think they would have ANY problem competing in the SLC.

I doubt they would have a problem - their budget as I said, would be comparable, if not exceed many of the non-Texas schools more than likely upon entering Division I. And I think they would want to be a viable Division I program at this level...

[TheRevSFA]

Let's realistically take a look at the conference: We've got the powerhouse that always has been McNeese, we've got the back to back champs in SFA, we've got solid teams out of UCA, NSULA, and Sam Houston...SELA isn't bad....Lamar thinks they're really headed for the WAC and Nicholls is somewhere in the swamp. If anything, Angelo State would easily surpass Nicholls and possibly SELA in terms of quality teams fielded.

[jhanel]

No comment... let you guys determine for yourself...

You drop stuff that is baseless just like all of your stuff about Louisiana schools. Its always opinion, and sometimes with just enough factual information for you to manipulate into what ever you wish.

You know with Louisiana having no money, no support for education, no financial support for their states FCS athletics, with possible school closers and just not being up to snuff with the Texas schools.

Its funny, the SLC has Two Louisiana schools, and Two Texas schools receiving votes. Hmmmm. And lets not forget UCA. They have been very competitive since day one.

That seems to me, for now, that the non-Texas schools are the better of the SLC.....for now. Even though the Louisiana schools are at such a horrible disadvantage.

Hmmmm

[crossfire07]

Texas schools have always pretty much had more money than the other schools and the trophy has only gone to Texas outright 4 times in 20 years. 3 if you was to count the year that the Southland did not have the balls to stand up to the NCAA and not send Texas State to the bars in Montana and give it to UCA who were the real winners. That is a lot of money per trophy even at 4 and other schools are operating on half of what some Texas schools spend but are still able to keep the prize out of Texas.

[katstrapper]

The league is competitive, but the quality of players seems to be going down a bit. There are many more scholarship opportunities in the immediate vicinity from the Div II (Incarnate Word) up to Div I (Lamar, UTSA, South Alabama and even increase of scholarships to FBS - TXST). Add in the likelihood of Houston Baptist adding the sport, throw in several possible D2 up-starts and a few of these Div II schools looking at Div I throughout region and there you...



Quality of players going down? Not sure what you are talking about, but I think you need to get out and watch some live football instead of basing your opinions on what you read....

[TexasTerror]

Its funny, the SLC has Two Louisiana schools, and Two Texas schools receiving votes. Hmmmm. And lets not forget UCA. They have been very competitive since day one. That seems to me, for now, that the non-Texas schools are the better of the SLC.....for now. Even though the Louisiana schools are at such a horrible disadvantage.

Again - they are preseason polls.

And if you want to talk about the overall financial viability of the Texas schools versus the Louisiana schools from an athletic standpoint, just look at the SLC Commish Cup. The Texas schools continue to put up better numbers than the Louisiana schools as far as overall performance across all sports. While it is not the 'best formula', it is the one that we have.

Football is a bit different because it is a marquee sports and the Louisiana schools properly fund it, since it is such a 'driver' for the rest of the athletic departments from a financial and marketing standpoint. The funding gaps really exist more in sports not called football. From salaries to scholarships, there is a widening gap from TX to LA.


Texas schools have always pretty much had more money than the other schools and the trophy has only gone to Texas outright 4 times in 20 years. 3 if you was to count the year that the Southland did not have the balls to stand up to the NCAA and not send Texas State to the bars in Montana and give it to UCA who were the real winners. That is a lot of money per trophy even at 4 and other schools are operating on half of what some Texas schools spend but are still able to keep the prize out of Texas.

The football situation is a bit different than the other sports.

One issue that does get in the way for football though is the financial situation of the Louisiana schools as it relates to the playoffs. The Louisiana schools (SLU, NWST and Nicholls) schedule themselves out of the playoffs by playing multiple FBS guarantee games a year. They need to do this in order to bring in revenue.

While doing this in basketball is a bit different since the SLC has no chance at an at-large, doing so in football gets in the way of the league's hopes of putting multiple teams in the playoffs. It is why I hope the SLC gets back to eight league games, because that could potentially help the league get back to the business of multiple teams.


Quality of players going down? Not sure what you are talking about, but I think you need to get out and watch some live football instead of basing your opinions on what you read....

There's more mouths to feed... more schools in the region are adding football and scholarships (in addition to the increasing amount of schools that recruit in this region). If you do not think this has an adverse fit on the quality of play, you must believe there are substantial increases in the number of Division I quality football players in this region. That's debatable.

[jhanel]

And if you want to talk about the overall financial viability of the Texas schools versus the Louisiana schools from an athletic standpoint.

Again -

This is an FCS message board, is it not? Why would I be talking about anything other than football. xeyebrowx xoopsx

[Bogus Megapardus]

Hoss went to Sul Ross State and he was a pretty big feller. No question that he coulda played guard, so maybe there's reason for hope in Alpine.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bd/Dan_Blocker_in_Bonanza_opening_credits_episode_Bit ter_Water.jpg/220px-Dan_Blocker_in_Bonanza_opening_credits_episode_Bit ter_Water.jpg

[dbackjon]

TT - I would be more concerned about Texas schools having to cut budgets. The latest Texas proposed budget slashes education budgets to the bone. And there is not the billions in federal stimulus money that Texas used last time to balance budget - you are looking at overall cuts to education (all levels) in the billion dollar plus range. Texas schools could very easily end up in worse shape financially than LA schools.

[TexasTerror]

Again -This is an FCS message board, is it not? Why would I be talking about anything other than football. xeyebrowx xoopsx

The overall athletic welfare of an institution impacts all sports... football included.

While football may be holding its neck above water, if the school can not fund the 14 sports to the NCAA minimums for Division I, you have a problem. Several of our league schools have already cut sports down to the league minimum and if it weren't for the 'savior' that is a poorly funded track and field/cross country program, they would not be around at that level of competition - if you can call it that in some cases, since these schools are clearly barely competing.


TT - I would be more concerned about Texas schools having to cut budgets. The latest Texas proposed budget slashes education budgets to the bone. And there is not the billions in federal stimulus money that Texas used last time to balance budget - you are looking at overall cuts to education (all levels) in the billion dollar plus range. Texas schools could very easily end up in worse shape financially than LA schools.

dback -

Far from the truth as it relates to athletic departments...

The differences are that the Louisiana schools rely heavily on institutional support to bolster their athletic coffers.

In fact, each athletic department in the SLC and SWAC from the state sans Southern get at least 40%-60% of their athletic budget from their institution. Southern gets over $450 in student fees from each student, so that represents a great deal of funds. The cuts have continued to come on down in Louisiana and I anticipate them to continue due to the structure of the Louisiana constitution and what can, can't be cut.

In Texas, the student fees make up more of the athletic department budgets. Student fees are why TXST and UTSA are able to bankroll moves to FBS. SHSU and Lamar budgets are rapidly growing because of increases in student fees. While the cuts are beginning to rain down on the Texas schools, the Texas schools in general are less reliant on the state to fund their academic (and in turn athletic mission). I believe the saying is that our institutions went from "state supported" to "state assisted" in Texas.

[DG Cowboy]

Hoss went to Sul Ross State and he was a pretty big feller. No question that he coulda played guard, so maybe there's reason for hope in Alpine.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bd/Dan_Blocker_in_Bonanza_opening_credits_episode_Bit ter_Water.jpg/220px-Dan_Blocker_in_Bonanza_opening_credits_episode_Bit ter_Water.jpg

Let us not forget Norm Cash played baseball at Sul Ross on his way to his stellar career with the Detroit Tigers.

[jhanel]

if the school can not fund the 14 sports to the NCAA minimums for Division I, you have a problem. Several of our league schools have already cut sports down to the league minimum and if it weren't for the 'savior' that is a poorly funded track and field/cross country program, they would not be around at that level of competition - if you can call it that in some cases, since these schools are clearly barely competing.

SMH, Northwestern and McNeese for sure do not have a problem.

Here is a nugget for you Southland Swami,
I also heard from a very reliable source that neither Sam nor Lamar will be able to accept an invite to any FBS conference for a long time. 100% impossible because they are both unable to financially, it would be "financial suicide" and that zero interest has been shown to Sam. As you say, I will let you feel in the blank to who said it, and yes you can not get more credible, but my source would like to stay anonymous.

[TexasTerror]

SMH, Northwestern and McNeese for sure do not have a problem.

I think McNeese is in the best shape from an overall financial and athletic health situation... after that, it's a toss-up.


I also heard from a very reliable source that neither Sam nor Lamar will be able to accept an invite to any FBS conference for a long time. 100% impossible because they are both unable to financially, it would be "financial suicide" and that zero interest has been shown to Sam. As you say, I will let you feel in the blank to who said it, and yes you can not get more credible, but my source would like to stay anonymous.

I think if the right situation arises, both schools would be able to. The current WAC is a very questionable situation and would not be a 'right situation'.

Have conferences reached out to both schools? Yes. There is no question about that, as leagues wanted to see what interest or feasibility there would be ina accomplishing that. I think that SHSU needs to get to that $15-17M mark financially and Lamar likely does too. Those budgets would put both schools at basically twice what ULM has..

[TheRevSFA]

Wow...it's turning into a The Battle of the Sabine River here.

[DG Cowboy]

Personally, I give TT credit for some good discussion ideas. Don't always agree with him, but, "It is difference of opinion that makes horse races", wrote Mark Twain.

[TexasTerror]

Angelo State is not going to make the move... it would take an athletic budget of $10M annually to compete at the Div I level.


SAN ANGELO, Texas — Angelo State University athletics will remain in NCAA Division II, officials said in a news release Wednesday.

The decision not to move to Division I followed a six-month review.

"As the landscape of intercollegiate athletics was rapidly changing, we feel like the process was a good exercise," ASU President Joseph C. Rallo said in the release.

"We were able to identify both our strengths and some areas of improvement and now have a better understanding of what it will take to better serve our student-athletes, and campus and area communities."

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2011/dec/21/asu-will-remain-in-ncaas-division-ii/

[Grizzlies82]

I know where Abiliene and San Angelo are, but where in the heck is "A&M Commerce" located?

[Twentysix]

In the NYSE. I thought commerce gave it away.

This banter with TT is really amusing.

[TexasTerror]

I know where Abiliene and San Angelo are, but where in the heck is "A&M Commerce" located?

Northeast of Dallas Metroplex in 'East Texas'.

[TexasTerror]

Finances, facilities and national competitiveness the discussion here of why D2 is ASU's route...

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2011/dec/28/ability-to-compete-money-keep-asu-out-of-i/

[KNUTS]

Oh no more TEXAS SPEED!! :D

I hope that they do decide to join. I have had a lot of fun in San Angelo TX! I could use some Diego's breakfast burritos right now!

[KNUTS]

Oh no more TEXAS SPEED!! :D

I hope that they do decide to join. I have had a lot of fun in San Angelo TX! I could use some Diego's breakfast burritos right now!

Ooops I guess they already made the decision to stay. Well I could still use some Diego's!!