LFN: Patriot League Media Day 2011: Of Rams and Scholarships

[Lehigh Football Nation]

http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2011/08/patriot-league-media-day-2011-part-one.html

Touched upon by others around the world of FCS, but my blog posting gets to the heart of the matter in a very different way than anyone else, I think.

[Pard4Life]

Good insight. But as we all know, what the Presidents say and do is much more important than what Masella does and how he acts. Of course Fordham is not engaged... what are they playing for? The AD is probably in the same boat. No doubt all the coaches want scholarships. Fordham's President's sentiment is not surprising. Where else are they going to play? Big South? Southern teams that are not academically focused? CAA or NEC? Maybe... I don't know the governing structure of those leagues, but I doubt the Presidents have as much control as he does now in the PL. The double-standard though as evidenced by that new recruit is puzzling though...

ps Did Lafayette have a media guide? Are there any non-usual Ivy suspects as OOCs in future schedules?

[Bogus Megapardus]

"Army has been a traditional rivalry for us, dating back to the 50s," Masella said.

Fordham has played Army exactly twice - in 1891 and in 1949. They got slaughtered both times.

Colgate has played Army 29 times; Holy Cross has played Army 24 times; Lafayette has played Army 18 times and Lehigh has played Army 11 times. Aside from Navy, Harvard and Yale, this core PL group is Army's most traditional opponent.

So Masella is getting out of the PL so he can play Army?

Right.

[colorless raider]

I put Fordham in the gone category. Too bad

[Pard4Life]

Good one Bogie. Masella's comments didn't smell right... Fordham cancelled football in 1952.

[ngineer]

Good insight. But as we all know, what the Presidents say and do is much more important than what Masella does and how he acts. Of course Fordham is not engaged... what are they playing for? The AD is probably in the same boat. No doubt all the coaches want scholarships. Fordham's President's sentiment is not surprising. Where else are they going to play? Big South? Southern teams that are not academically focused? CAA or NEC? Maybe... I don't know the governing structure of those leagues, but I doubt the Presidents have as much control as he does now in the PL. The double-standard though as evidenced by that new recruit is puzzling though...

ps Did Lafayette have a media guide? Are there any non-usual Ivy suspects as OOCs in future schedules?


The traditional "media guides" are history. As a cost cutting measure nationwide. Schools now do it 'electronically' on site. Unaware of any unusual OOC opponents in the future.

[Pard4Life]

Also there is a weird rule about not giving media guides to recruits (now a violation), and yes the costs, are a factor. They are printed for the press, but many less and in a cheap format. Lafayette's used to be a nice book but last year they were a cheap spiral bound group of papers, something you'd get at a conference.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

FWIW Fordham's was a "traditional" bound media guide. Lafayette's was plastic spiral, as was Bucknell's, but at least they had one. I think everyone else, including Lehigh, was either photocopied papers or nothing at all.

[Pard4Life]

One computer virus and the 2010 season never existed for a few schools.

[Ken_Z]

One computer virus and the 2010 season never existed for a few schools.

please launch that virus immediately. thanks.

[UNH Fanboi]

"Army has been a traditional rivalry for us, dating back to the 50s," Masella said.

Fordham has played Army exactly twice - in 1891 and in 1949. They got slaughtered both times.

Colgate has played Army 29 times; Holy Cross has played Army 24 times; Lafayette has played Army 18 times and Lehigh has played Army 11 times. Aside from Navy, Harvard and Yale, this core PL group is Army's most traditional opponent.

So Masella is getting out of the PL so he can play Army?

Right.

Has Fordham played Army in a lot of other sports since the 50s? If so, he probably meant that Army has been a traditional rival of the school--not the football team--and that they are excited to extend the rivalry to football. Also, he's not saying that playing Army is the SOLE reason for getting out of the PL. Obviously that is just one benefit. Anyway, it's refreshing to see at least one FCS school in the NE being proactive and not pretending that its still the 1980s.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Has Fordham played Army in a lot of other sports since the 50s?

Army is a full member of the Patriot League so that's where it plays all its other sports. Colgate vs. Army is a big one in lacrosse, and Lafayette vs. Army in baseball has seen some terrific series. Army gives Lehigh a handful in basketball every year, it seems. And remember, when the PL football scholarship vote is taken, Army casts one of those votes.

So, if Fordham wants a sports tradition with Army, there's only one place to be.

[DFW HOYA]

I think people miss the forest for the trees in this discussion. Let's say the PL meets by conference call tomorrow and votes scholarships in--well, then what? It's not like BC suddenly picks up the phone and gets Holy Cross on the schedule, nor is Lafayette fending offers from Pitt and Penn State for the 2013 opener.

Some reporting is in order. At least one school probably has the fundraising pieces quietly in place to go from 0 to 60 almost overnight. At least one school has no contingency plan. At least two schools would be under institutional pressure not to make any changes to the aid formula it already has. The presidents know this. Constituents (fans, donors, etc.) need to know when and if their school is preparing for such a change.

All a scholarship vote does right now is elevate two (maybe three) schools to counter status and permanently consigns two (maybe three) schools to the bottom of the ladder. If everyone's not together on this, it's a recipe for failure.

[Pard4Life]

Exactly DFW... the have and have-not model, or a hard cap, is the real issue at this point. My brain says compromise: it gives Lehigh and Colgate what they want (60) and Lafayette what it wants (limited).

Big schools don't want to schedule us: we have to get the games. Lafayette only wants teams like Navy, Army, Rutgers, Duke. I wouldn't be shocked if Northwestern was mentioned. Penn State would be cool though.. and we'd renew that 1920s rivalry with Pitt..

[Bogus Megapardus]

. . .and we'd renew that 1920s rivalry with Pitt . . .

. . . and with West Virginia as well. Cur non?

Seriously, are we really looking to fill a schedule with Penn State, Texas and Nebraska? Aren't we talking about one or two FBS games each season? I don't think there would be much of a problem as long as the athletic budget does not become dependent entirely on the cut from a Big Ten sellout.

I'm just guessing here, but I think that PL scheduling against FBS teams would always be in the best interests of the school first. Rutgers, Syracuse, Temple, the Academies, Wake Forest, Northwestern, Rice, Miami (Ohio), Duke, Vanderbilt . . . there are plenty of potential opponents that come to mind.

I have no desire whatsoever to see the Pards try to play play Michigan or Ohio State.

[Go...gate]

Has Fordham played Army in a lot of other sports since the 50s? If so, he probably meant that Army has been a traditional rival of the school--not the football team--and that they are excited to extend the rivalry to football. Also, he's not saying that playing Army is the SOLE reason for getting out of the PL. Obviously that is just one benefit. Anyway, it's refreshing to see at least one FCS school in the NE being proactive and not pretending that its still the 1980s.

Actually, yes, including basketball, baseball, soccer and others.

[TheValleyRaider]

I think people miss the forest for the trees in this discussion. Let's say the PL meets by conference call tomorrow and votes scholarships in--well, then what? It's not like BC suddenly picks up the phone and gets Holy Cross on the schedule, nor is Lafayette fending offers from Pitt and Penn State for the 2013 opener.

I don't think anyone expects that to happen, though adding scholarships makes it easier to get your phone calls returned

Still, it can be done. Outside of the Syracuse oddity last year, Colgate has games scheduled in the not-too-distant future against Air Force and Ball State, though those may have been made with the idea that scholarships would be approved by that point (2013/2014). The Raiders also nearly had a contract with TCU, though TCU backed out due to the scholarship issue. Getting FBS games is made easier with scholarships, but you're left to teams who have those openings and are willing to sign the contract, as with every schedule

Admittedly, that's a very Colgate-centric view, but our Ivy opponents are already slipping off the schedule, so in the interest of broadening the schedules beyond just NEC/Ivy competition, this helps

[carney2]

Sorry, DFW, you make a valid point, but the only way this flies is if each school gets what it wants. That means

Colgate, Fordham and probably Lehigh with the maximum number of scholarships available under the Patriot League rules. 63? 60?

Bucknell, Holy Cross and possibly, but not definitely, Lafayette with some middling, muddling "maybe we'll get lucky every once in a while" number. 30? 40? 50?

Georgetown does as little as possible. 20? 10? 0?

It may be, and probably is, a recipe for certain disaster, as you say, but it delays, delays, delays, which is all that a roomful of academics can wish for. Using your logic, the only alternative is to drag everyone down to the lowest level (Georgetown), and that is yet another recipe for certain disaster. Of these two train wrecks, I much prefer the former.

[DFW HOYA]

I don't think anyone expects that to happen, though adding scholarships makes it easier to get your phone calls returned


I'm not sure that's going to get Georgetown's calls answered.

[LUHawker]

Latest that I heard today is that there is a good chance that the scholarship proposal will pass in 2012, but that it might result in Georgetown departing the PL. However, this means that Fordham would stay.

[carney2]

our Ivy opponents are already slipping off the schedule

Is this true? Show me.

[Go...gate]

Is this true? Show me.

Dartmouth is off our sked after this year for the forseeable future (they did not wish to renew) and Princeton is taking a hiatus, though a short one. But according to our AD, Columbia and Penn will no longer play us - period and Harvard will only play us at home. Future Ivy games will probably be limited to Cornell, Princeton and Yale.

[carney2]

Dartmouth is off our sked after this year for the forseeable future (they did not wish to renew) and Princeton is taking a hiatus, though a short one. But according to our AD, Columbia and Penn will no longer play us - period and Harvard will only play us at home. Future Ivy games will probably be limited to Cornell, Princeton and Yale.

I never understood Ivy League scheduling. I'm not sure I'm supposed to.

[Bogus Megapardus]

If the PL remains non-scholarship one factor might be getting first dibs on Ivy OOC games, like it used to be. If the PL goes for scholarships, the Ivy games will be scheduled arm's length, just like any other opponent. I'm sure Colgate will always play Cornell, Lehigh will play Penn, Holy Cross will play Harvard and Lafayette will play Princeton. But beyond that, get ready for a sea of NEC games, folks (plus one FBS money grab). I, for one, am not quite ready to trade Yale and Columbia for Robert Morris and Monmouth U.

But that's just me. For those who can't wait for those trips to lovely Loretto, PA and Smithfield, RI, well, keep up the good fight.

[TheValleyRaider]

Dartmouth is off our sked after this year for the forseeable future (they did not wish to renew) and Princeton is taking a hiatus, though a short one. But according to our AD, Columbia and Penn will no longer play us - period and Harvard will only play us at home. Future Ivy games will probably be limited to Cornell, Princeton and Yale.

Plus Brown, an actual old rival, hasn't been seen since 1996

[colorless raider]

Plus Brown, an actual old rival, hasn't been seen since 1996

That was a Colgate win in Ryan Vena's first start. That win ended a 15 game losing streak. No wonder Brown doesn't want to play us.

[Pard4Life]

When has Colgate played Columbia, Penn, or Harvard in the past ten years? Colgate usually plays the Ivy cupcakes as OOCs. Why would the Ivy automatically drop the PL? After all, our academic ideals remain the same and we recruit the same player, even a higher caliber academic player. Maybe Dartmouth is tired of getting handled... Penn is tied to Villanova, LC, Bucknell, and formerly LU for OOC... Harvard with LC and HC... Columbia with LC, FU, Sacred Heart, Wagner... it will be interesting if the Ivy goes 11 games, but their PL relationship will not be affected.

[Go...gate]

When has Colgate played Columbia, Penn, or Harvard in the past ten years? Colgate usually plays the Ivy cupcakes as OOCs. Why would the Ivy automatically drop the PL? After all, our academic ideals remain the same and we recruit the same player, even a higher caliber academic player. Maybe Dartmouth is tired of getting handled... Penn is tied to Villanova, LC, Bucknell, and formerly LU for OOC... Harvard with LC and HC... Columbia with LC, FU, Sacred Heart, Wagner... it will be interesting if the Ivy goes 11 games, but their PL relationship will not be affected.

Respectfully, we openly seek to play all the Ivies. We can only play those who will play us. When was the last time LC played ANYBODY as strong as Syracuse? You guys were playing Mercyhurst when we were still playing Rutgers, Duke, and Navy, you were scheduling Marist just a year or two ago, and you have played Columbia forever, so back off on the scheduling issue.

[Bogus Megapardus]

I think Army in 1997 was the last FBS team Lafayette played.

[Pard4Life]

You're talking about nearly 25 years ago, when Holy Cross was dominant. Syracuse... yeah real power. It was a mere fluke they ended up on your schedule. My point is Colgate feasts on the weaker OOCs for wins. Every school needs some (like Marist and Columbia... no longer a creampuff the past 3yrs), but it's probably just one too many. The Pards usually play the toughest OOC... Harvard and Penn are top 25 teams. Furman, UMass, and Air Force are great OOCs though... We actually booted Marist and added Liberty at the time. We WANT to play Rutgers, Duke, Army, and Navy but we can't... we know why.

[Sader87]

HC has been very fortunate to have longstanding New England rivals (Harvard, Dartmouth, Brown and even sporadically, Yale) on its schedule for decades. I can't imagine only playing 1 or 2 Ivy every year to play NEC type schools in their stead. Indeed, most HC followers would probably tell you that they'd much rather go to the Harvard, Dartmouth or Brown game (home or away) well before they'd go to the Lehigh, Lafayette or Bucknell game.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

You're talking about nearly 25 years ago, when Holy Cross was dominant. Syracuse... yeah real power. It was a mere fluke they ended up on your schedule. My point is Colgate feasts on the weaker OOCs for wins. Every school needs some (like Marist and Columbia... no longer a creampuff the past 3yrs), but it's probably just one too many. The Pards usually play the toughest OOC... Harvard and Penn are top 25 teams. Furman, UMass, and Air Force are great OOCs though... We actually booted Marist and added Liberty at the time. We WANT to play Rutgers, Duke, Army, and Navy but we can't... we know why.

Colgate has had series's with Furman, Villanova, Maine, Umass and Coastal Carolina in the last 10 years, that's pretty good.

[Go...gate]

You're talking about nearly 25 years ago, when Holy Cross was dominant. Syracuse... yeah real power. It was a mere fluke they ended up on your schedule. My point is Colgate feasts on the weaker OOCs for wins. Every school needs some (like Marist and Columbia... no longer a creampuff the past 3yrs), but it's probably just one too many. The Pards usually play the toughest OOC... Harvard and Penn are top 25 teams. Furman, UMass, and Air Force are great OOCs though... We actually booted Marist and added Liberty at the time. We WANT to play Rutgers, Duke, Army, and Navy but we can't... we know why.

1999: Maine (w), Dartmouth (w), Harvard (w) St. Mary's (w), Illinois State (NCAA) (l)

2000: UConn (l), Princeton (w), Cornell (w), St. Mary's (w)

2001: Villanova (l), Maine (l), Cornell (w), Princeton (w)

2002: Villanova (l), Dartmouth (w), Columbia (w), Cornell (w)

2003: Buffalo (w), Dartmouth (w), Cornell (w), Princeton (w), Yale (w), UMass (NCAA) (w), Western Illinois (w), Florida Atlantic (w), Delaware (l)

2004: UMass (l), Dartmouth (w), Yale (l), Princeton (w), Cornell (w)

2005: Central Connecticut (l), UMass (w), Dartmouth (l), Cornell (w), Princeton (w), UNH (NCAA) (l)

2006: UMass (l), Dartmouth (w), Monmouth (l), Princeton (Ivy Co-Champion) (l), Cornell (l)

2007: Albany (w), UMass (l), Dartmouth (w), Cornell (w), Towson (w)

2008: Stony Brook (l), Coastal Carolina (w), Furman (l), Dartmouth (w), Princeton (w), Cornell (w) Villanova (NCAA) (l)

2009: Monmouth (w), Stony Brook (w), Dartmouth (w), Cornell (w), Princeton (w)

2010: Monmouth (l), Furman (l), Syracuse (l), Princeton (w), Cornell (w)

I certainly believe LC's OOC sked is no better and arguably worse. Moreover, as I said before, many Ivy schools have stopped playing us - our AD would be happy to pick up more games with them, as many Ivies are traditional Colgate opponents, as was discussed on a thread some months ago.

[LUHawker]

HC has been very fortunate to have longstanding New England rivals (Harvard, Dartmouth, Brown and even sporadically, Yale) on its schedule for decades. I can't imagine only playing 1 or 2 Ivy every year to play NEC type schools in their stead. Indeed, most HC followers would probably tell you that they'd much rather go to the Harvard, Dartmouth or Brown game (home or away) well before they'd go to the Lehigh, Lafayette or Bucknell game.

Sader-

I am tired of your less than transparent jabs at the PL in general and your holier-than-thou attitude that Holy Cross is this institution and football program that is so head-and-shoulders above the lowly Lehighs, Lafayettes and Bucknells. Get over yourself. You are the only one (and dragging your fellow HCers name with you) that spouts off about how HC fans would soooo much rather play the New England Ivies. I'm sure that there are PL fans from LU, LC, BU and CU that aren't enamored with playing HC and would tell you they'd much rather go to Penn, Princeton, etc. well before they'd go to HC.

Your constant anti-PL tone is grating. HC is in the PL and isn't going anywhere, so move on from the 30 year old "we coulda been a Big East player".

Personally I think HC is a great, respectable college, but your "too big for PL britches" attitude is out of line with the current reality. Other than the Dom Randolph years (and even then, HC only won 1, count-em 1 PL title) HC has hardly been a PL powerhouse since 1991.

Sorry that you think you have to cavort with the plebes.

[Franks Tanks]

1999: Maine (w), Dartmouth (w), Harvard (w) St. Mary's (w), Illinois State (NCAA) (l)

2000: UConn (l), Princeton (w), Cornell (w), St. Mary's (w)

2001: Villanova (l), Maine (l), Cornell (w), Princeton (w)

2002: Villanova (l), Dartmouth (w), Columbia (w), Cornell (w)

2003: Buffalo (w), Dartmouth (w), Cornell (w), Princeton (w), Yale (w), UMass (NCAA) (w), Western Illinois (w), Florida Atlantic (w), Delaware (l)

2004: UMass (l), Dartmouth (w), Yale (l), Princeton (w), Cornell (w)

2005: Central Connecticut (l), UMass (w), Dartmouth (l), Cornell (w), Princeton (w), UNH (NCAA) (l)

2006: UMass (l), Dartmouth (w), Monmouth (l), Princeton (Ivy Co-Champion) (l), Cornell (l)

2007: Albany (w), UMass (l), Dartmouth (w), Cornell (w), Towson (w)

2008: Stony Brook (l), Coastal Carolina (w), Furman (l), Dartmouth (w), Princeton (w), Cornell (w) Villanova (NCAA) (l)

2009: Monmouth (w), Stony Brook (w), Dartmouth (w), Cornell (w), Princeton (w)

2010: Monmouth (l), Furman (l), Syracuse (l), Princeton (w), Cornell (w)

I certainly believe LC's OOC sked is no better and arguably worse. Moreover, as I said before, many Ivy schools have stopped playing us - our AD would be happy to pick up more games with them, as many Ivies are traditional Colgate opponents, as was discussed on a thread some months ago.

Colgate has played more schools from power conferences (Umass, Furman, Nova, and 2 FBS teams). Lafayette gets less games against these type of teams, but plays the better Ivies such as Harvard and Penn nearly every year. I know Colgate would also like to play Harvard and Penn.

[DFW HOYA]

This argument begs the question--you can't have it both ways. Does Colgate want to play Ivy schools or go full scholarship? If it's the latter, you can't expect the same kind of comfortable relationship that four of the seven PL schools have enjoyed with the Ancient Eight.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Personally, I enjoy reading Sader87. He is the Skip Bayless of the Patriot League. I don't know Sader87 personally, but I'm pretty sure he knows exactly what he's doing. It's kind of funny. It's not like he's MplsBison who tries so hard to give his otherwise fine school a bad name.

It fact, I wanted to apply to Holy Cross, but they wouldn't let me because I'm Catholic.

[TheValleyRaider]

This argument begs the question--you can't have it both ways. Does Colgate want to play Ivy schools or go full scholarship? If it's the latter, you can't expect the same kind of comfortable relationship that four of the seven PL schools have enjoyed with the Ancient Eight.

Well, we don't have scholarships, and already we're getting phased out of Ivy games. I enjoy the history of the Ivy games, but I won't lose any sleep if those schools have to be replaced because scholarships means they won't deign to play us any more

At some point, I really don't care what the Ancient Eight thinks (somewhat hypocritically, I might add) about our financial aid policies

[CrusaderBob]

HC has been very fortunate to have longstanding New England rivals (Harvard, Dartmouth, Brown and even sporadically, Yale) on its schedule for decades. I can't imagine only playing 1 or 2 Ivy every year to play NEC type schools in their stead. Indeed, most HC followers would probably tell you that they'd much rather go to the Harvard, Dartmouth or Brown game (home or away) well before they'd go to the Lehigh, Lafayette or Bucknell game.

But that is not the alternative presented by the PL allowing 57+ scholarships.

How would you like to lose Harvard, Brown & Dartmouth on this year's schedule and replace them with

Sacred Heart
Army
BC

or

URI (NEC after this year) or Maine ...
Army or BC or UConn or Duke ...
Villanova or William & Mary or Richmond ...

Much more likely to happen with scholarships and I'll bet you and most HC followers would probably tell you, they'd much rather go to the BC, Army, or Villanova game well before the Harvard, Brown, or Dartmouth game.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

This argument begs the question--you can't have it both ways. Does Colgate want to play Ivy schools or go full scholarship? If it's the latter, you can't expect the same kind of comfortable relationship that four of the seven PL schools have enjoyed with the Ancient Eight.

Put this another way, though. If you're an Ivy League school, and you want to schedule "like teams", where do you go with a scholarship PL?

The NEC offers scholarships, albeit in limited form.

The CAA still has New Hampshire and Maine - they're 63 scholly schools, and Dartmouth just dropped New Hampshire.

The MEAC is a hodge podge, but every school has the ability to offer 63 scholarships.

If the IL is looking for pure "scholarship purity", Marist is going to be getting a lot of phone calls. That, and they're going to be making a lot of trips to Valparaiso and Campbell.

But more likely, the IL would probably have to accept a PL with scholarships, as long as their AI is in place. The PL would look a lot more like the IL than the CAA or even the NEC would, when you get right down to it.

And, honestly, all that really does is bring the PL in line with what, at a bare minimum, H-Y-P are already doing with their "scholarship the entire student body" aid policy that has the exact same effect as football scholarships.

[colorless raider]

Sader-

I am tired of your less than transparent jabs at the PL in general and your holier-than-thou attitude that Holy Cross is this institution and football program that is so head-and-shoulders above the lowly Lehighs, Lafayettes and Bucknells. Get over yourself. You are the only one (and dragging your fellow HCers name with you) that spouts off about how HC fans would soooo much rather play the New England Ivies. I'm sure that there are PL fans from LU, LC, BU and CU that aren't enamored with playing HC and would tell you they'd much rather go to Penn, Princeton, etc. well before they'd go to HC.

Your constant anti-PL tone is grating. HC is in the PL and isn't going anywhere, so move on from the 30 year old "we coulda been a Big East player".

Personally I think HC is a great, respectable college, but your "too big for PL britches" attitude is out of line with the current reality. Other than the Dom Randolph years (and even then, HC only won 1, count-em 1 PL title) HC has hardly been a PL powerhouse since 1991.

Sorry that you think you have to cavort with the plebes.

WELL DONE! I do enjoy playing HC, but he does need a reality check.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Put this another way, though. If you're an Ivy League school, and you want to schedule "like teams", where do you go with a scholarship PL?

The NEC offers scholarships, albeit in limited form.

The CAA still has New Hampshire and Maine - they're 63 scholly schools, and Dartmouth just dropped New Hampshire.

The MEAC is a hodge podge, but every school has the ability to offer 63 scholarships.

If the IL is looking for pure "scholarship purity", Marist is going to be getting a lot of phone calls. That, and they're going to be making a lot of trips to Valparaiso and Campbell.

But more likely, the IL would probably have to accept a PL with scholarships, as long as their AI is in place. The PL would look a lot more like the IL than the CAA or even the NEC would, when you get right down to it.

And, honestly, all that really does is bring the PL in line with what, at a bare minimum, H-Y-P are already doing with their "scholarship the entire student body" aid policy that has the exact same effect as football scholarships.

LFN -

I read somewhere last season that Yale was looking to become a qualifier for FBS scheduling purposes. In fact, I think Yale tentatively has scheduled Army in an upcoming season as a qualifier. If it does so, Yale would effectively ratify that at least 57 of its players receive scholarships equivalencies, would it not? Would that not also be suggestive of a substantially similar practice amongst its Ivy colleagues?

I'm just spitballing here, but if Yale, Penn and Harvard start playing, say, Duke, Northwestern and Rutgers each year as qualifiers, would that not address the "Ivy sensibilities" question raised by many (including me)?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

LFN -

I read somewhere last season that Yale was looking to become a qualifier for FBS scheduling purposes. In fact, I think Yale tentatively has scheduled Army in an upcoming season as a qualifier. If it does so, Yale would effectively ratify that at least 57 of its players receive scholarships equivalencies, would it not? Would that not also be suggestive of a substantially similar practice amongst its Ivy colleagues?

I'm just spitballing here, but if Yale, Penn and Harvard start playing, say, Duke, Northwestern and Rutgers each year as qualifiers, would that not address the "Ivy sensibilities" question raised by many (including me)?

If H-Y-Penn get an exemption start playing FBS teams as bowl qualifiers, yet don't wish for the PL to offer scholarships to make it easier for them to do so, it would be the height of hypocrisy.

I called them out on this last year.

http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2010/09/friday-water-cooler-ivy-league.html


I'd love to see the Ivy League champion get an autobid to the playoffs for the sole reason that I think they would have a chance. This year's Harvard team is as good or better than James Madison or Villanova, and it's a travesty that they will never be able to prove that on the field this year.

But I do have a problem when the Ivy League only uses the term "non-scholarship" when it suits them. When it comes to marketing and conference branding, they're "non-scholarship". But when that designation makes them unable to do things per NCAA rules, their solution is to call an end run around the rules. There's no debate as to the "non-scholarship" nature of the Ivy League. Instead, Yale petitions the NCAA for their own selfish reasons - they want to play Army - yet the same base of hypocrisies remain in place. They are "non-scholarship". But not really.

Why isn't the Ivy League having an internal debate about ripping up every restriction they have on their football programs right now? Eleven game seasons? Bye weeks? FBS opponents? Postseason? Even "football scholarships"?

...

The "Big Three" seem to be happy with their ten game schedules, ending the season when Harvard plays Yale, and being "non-scholarship".

And it seems to Yale, getting an exception from the NCAA is much better than starting a discussion on bringing Ivy League football into the 21st century.

I'm just spitballin' too, but I'd guess that Yale didn't consult with the Patriot League office to find out what Bucknell and Georgetown think of this exception - and that's the issue with the PL/IL relationship in a nutshell.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Illegitimi non carborundum, Sader87. If you let up now, I'll risk losing my AGS-designated purpose, which is to extol Patriot League resolve and defend its archaic, east coast-elite snobbery.

I have a small wager for you - I'll bet the Patriot League outlasts the Big East.

[Franks Tanks]

If H-Y-Penn get an exemption start playing FBS teams as bowl qualifiers, yet don't wish for the PL to offer scholarships to make it easier for them to do so, it would be the height of hypocrisy.

I called them out on this last year.

http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2010/09/friday-water-cooler-ivy-league.html




I'm just spitballin' too, but I'd guess that Yale didn't consult with the Patriot League office to find out what Bucknell and Georgetown think of this exception - and that's the issue with the PL/IL relationship in a nutshell.

http://www.yalebulldogs.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/062105aaa.html

In 2005 Yale announced that they will play Army in 2010 at Michie, and said that it is possible that Army will come to the Yale Bowl in 2012. They didn't play last year and won't be coming to the Bowl next year unfortunantly.

[Go...gate]

Illegitimi non carborundum, Sader87. If you let up now, I'll risk losing my AGS-designated purpose, which is to extol Patriot League resolve and defend its archaic, east coast-elite snobbery.

I have a small wager for you - I'll bet the Patriot League outlasts the Big East.

Hear, hear.

[RichH2]

If, as it seems possible, BE splits into football and non football present conference will not last past upcoming TV deal and that deal may alone change landscape of BE.
Let 87 vent his disappointment. Unlike Mpls Bison, who eats up entire threads with his frustrating illogic, Sader is rather like Don Quixote in his quest. Noble if unrealistic.