DFW: Eight Ways to Improve the Patriot League

[Lehigh Football Nation]

http://georgetownfootball.blogspot.com/2011/08/eight-ways-to-improve-patriot-league.html

I thought since DFW is too modest to post his fascinating memo on his prescription to improve the PL, that I'd do it for him.

While I don't totally agree with all of his suggestions, I do think it's a fascinating perspective. Unfortunately, we're still left to wonder if the PL presidents are paying any attention to any of this discussion.

[RichH2]

As usual DFW is nothing if not astute and brutally direct. Had forgotten about Bryant , a new school making its bones but a pretty close fit overall. VMI wold be fine but dont think they are considering a move. Other than some minor issues I find I do not disagree with his ideas whether singly or as a package, I will quibble that the ties with Fordham need no longer be cut as Rams have taken their ball and decided to go elsewhere.

[aceinthehole]

DFW always adds something great to the discussion. My only comment would be he is too wishful in his thinking on expansion - I don't think his ideas are realistic.

It was well reported that Bryant inquired with a few conferences, including the Patriot and America East, looking for membership. The NEC offered Bryant membership and a stable home while the other leagues denied them, or just refused to take action. IMO, the opportunity for the PL to add Bryant in the near future is all but gone. If the PL didn't extend an offer when Bryant was actually looking for a home, do you really think the PL would now actively try to lure Bryant into the fold? The NEC got Bryant in a steal, and this very beneficial relationship has worked out much better than either side probably expected. The Patriot's loss (by inaction) was the NEC's gain.

I also think the opportunity to add Duquesne and Marist as affiliates has probably passed as well. Neither school is really prepared to make the financial or academic commitment required to be competitive in the PL football. I don't think affiliate members really help the PL much, and I don't see any reason for these two schools to leave their current affiliations which are working out very well.

I do think VMI would be a great fit and a wonderful addition to the PL, but I don't know enough about their situation to know if it is a realistic option in the immediate future.

[colorless raider]

DFW- That was a first rate thought piece. Again i would quibble with some points the paper is something the presidents' should consider. Lord knows they are more than a little behind the curve.

[UAalum72]

One correction, on the expansion point: "And while Monmouth or Albany would appear more competitive football-only options, these schools cannot play football in the Patriot and remain in the Northeast Conference for other sports; of course, neither has shown interest in leaving the NEC"; Albany is not in the NEC for other sports, and until America East starts football xrolleyesx that's not an issue, which doesn't mean the Patriot is our goal, either.

[Go...gate]

Great work, DFW. The scholarship formula makes terrific sense. Well done.

[Tribe4SF]

VMI has a generous, and committed alumni base which would balk at joining a league with a 31.5 scholarship limit. I doubt they'd even discuss the possibilty of joining the Patriot.

DFW's thoughts are rational, and lay out the framework for the survival of PL football. The PL President's, however, seem to cling to an irrational view that the league in it's current form has something to sell. They aren't Ivy League presidents, and they've been left behind by the Ivys anyway. I imagine they've always believed that the Ivys were playing by the same rules, with the same restrictions, when in reality that was never the case.

[dgtw]

Georgetown can't afford scholarship football? What do they do with their Big East basketball money?

[DFW HOYA]

Thanks for the link. To answer/clarify some of the questions above:

1. Albany: Duly noted and corrected.

2. VMI: The article noted that new members would have more than 31 scholarships grandfathered in, similar to how American brought its scholarships with them into the PL.

3. Georgetown: Basketball makes about $10 million in tickets, donor support, and TV, but spends almost $8 million to do it. Georgetown pays significant rent for Verizon Center and gets zero ancillary revenue (concessions, skyboxes, parking, etc.) from it. Per the Big East, it cannot play BE games on-campus because of the aging condition and capacity of its facility. Georgetown has 25 of its 29 sports in the Big East, and most of those 25 have scholarship minimums which can be helped by excess revenues.

If the article is excessively hopeful, maybe it is, because there are scenarios out there that all but shut down the PL as we know it, in as soon as three years. Maybe I'll post one later this evening as a contrast to what was proposed.

[Franks Tanks]

VMI has a generous, and committed alumni base which would balk at joining a league with a 31.5 scholarship limit. I doubt they'd even discuss the possibilty of joining the Patriot.

DFW's thoughts are rational, and lay out the framework for the survival of PL football. The PL President's, however, seem to cling to an irrational view that the league in it's current form has something to sell. They aren't Ivy League presidents, and they've been left behind by the Ivys anyway. I imagine they've always believed that the Ivys were playing by the same rules, with the same restrictions, when in reality that was never the case.

If VMI joined the PL today with 63 scholarships, and the rest of the league stayed as is, I think they still have a losing league record more often than not. They joined the Big South to play a more competitive schedule and still still can't break .500.

[Go...gate]

If VMI joined the PL today with 63 scholarships, and the rest of the league stayed as is, I think they still have a losing league record more often than not. They joined the Big South to play a more competitive schedule and still still can't break .500.

Agreed. Plus, in the PL they would have Army and Navy as an opponent for all sports (and probably football, because VMI has continued to play both academies).

[Seawolf97]

Excellent comentary! Hopefully it will bear some fruit.

[Sader87]

Great VMI....can we get Davidson back for PL football too while we're at it? How else can we make the PL more geographically and institutionally unpalatable for Holy Cross?

[Tribe4SF]

Thanks for the link. To answer/clarify some of the questions above:



2. VMI: The article noted that new members would have more than 31 scholarships grandfathered in, similar to how American brought its scholarships with them into the PL.



Missed that. Without rereading, is that grandfathering permanent, or phased out over time?

[Bogus Megapardus]

Great VMI....can we get Davidson back for PL football too while we're at it? How else can we make the PL more geographically and institutionally unpalatable for Holy Cross?

By moving Mount St. James to Iceland? If you give me a minute, I'm sure I can come up with a few more ways if I try.

[Go...gate]

Great VMI....can we get Davidson back for PL football too while we're at it? How else can we make the PL more geographically and institutionally unpalatable for Holy Cross?

You really think the rest of us are "institutionally unpalatable"? Colgate and HC have played for nearly a century.

[Sader87]

You really think the rest of us are "institutionally unpalatable"? Colgate and HC have played for nearly a century.

Unfortunately every PL school gets lumped into my anti-PL missives....yes, Colgate is long established football rival and I hope we can continue to play one another for another 100 years. All the PL schools are tremendous institutions, amoungst the finest in this country, my decades long gripe is that we just don't "fit in" with them (be it geographically, institutionally etc) as much as we do with schools like Villanova, Fordham, Boston College, Providence College et. al.

[Franks Tanks]

Unfortunately every PL school gets lumped into my anti-PL missives....yes, Colgate is long established football rival and I hope we can continue to play one another for another 100 years. All the PL schools are tremendous institutions, amoungst the finest in this country, my decades long gripe is that we just don't "fit in" with them (be it geographically, institutionally etc) as much as we do with schools like Villanova, Fordham, Boston College, Providence College et. al.

Northeastern Catholic colleges that play FCS football include Holy Cross, Fordham, Georgetown and Nova. I believe Marist is no longer a catholic school. 3 of 4 reside in the PL (for now anyway). I understand many play pretty good D-I basketball, but ver few similar schools exist for football.

[Go...gate]

Northeastern Catholic colleges that play FCS football include Holy Cross, Fordham, Georgetown and Nova. I believe Marist is no longer a catholic school. 3 of 4 reside in the PL (for now anyway). I understand many play pretty good D-I basketball, but ver few similar schools exist for football.

Didn't know this.

[Go...gate]

Missed that. Without rereading, is that grandfathering permanent, or phased out over time?

According to the article, they would grandfather their existing 63 - presumably thereafter they could go to 57.5 or whatever the NCAA deems this week to be "counter" status. If there is a reduction, it is all of five or six grants-in-aid.

[UAalum72]

Didn't know this.
While Marist's home page still says they " reflect the ideals of the founder of the Marist Brothers" the college has been owned by a Corporation run by an independent, predominantly lay board of trustees since 1969.

[ngineer]

DFW always adds something great to the discussion. My only comment would be he is too wishful in his thinking on expansion - I don't think his ideas are realistic.

It was well reported that Bryant inquired with a few conferences, including the Patriot and America East, looking for membership. The NEC offered Bryant membership and a stable home while the other leagues denied them, or just refused to take action. IMO, the opportunity for the PL to add Bryant in the near future is all but gone. If the PL didn't extend an offer when Bryant was actually looking for a home, do you really think the PL would now actively try to lure Bryant into the fold? The NEC got Bryant in a steal, and this very beneficial relationship has worked out much better than either side probably expected. The Patriot's loss (by inaction) was the NEC's gain.

I also think the opportunity to add Duquesne and Marist as affiliates has probably passed as well. Neither school is really prepared to make the financial or academic commitment required to be competitive in the PL football. I don't think affiliate members really help the PL much, and I don't see any reason for these two schools to leave their current affiliations which are working out very well.

I do think VMI would be a great fit and a wonderful addition to the PL, but I don't know enough about their situation to know if it is a realistic option in the immediate future.

VMI has made overtures in the past for PL membership, but rejected. I think their biggest impediment is West Point and Annapolis who look down their noses as the "state" military college. Not sure if their academic footprint is sufficient for the PL ivories.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

[/U][/B]

VMI has made overtures in the past for PL membership, but rejected. I think their biggest impediment is West Point and Annapolis who look down their noses as the "state" military college. Not sure if their academic footprint is sufficient for the PL ivories.

A Patriot League school looking down their noses at another school? Who'd imagine that? xlolx

[Sader87]

Northeastern Catholic colleges that play FCS football include Holy Cross, Fordham, Georgetown and Nova. I believe Marist is no longer a catholic school. 3 of 4 reside in the PL (for now anyway). I understand many play pretty good D-I basketball, but ver few similar schools exist for football.

Are Fordham and Georgetown really in the PL? Fordham is essentially gone and Georgetown for all intent and purposes (sorry DFW) has never really been a true PL member. If there's one school I truly envy today (athletically anyway) it's Villanova...they kept (or brought back) football to a respectable level and continue to be recognized nationally in basketball, something HC could easily have done if not for short-sightedness. It's just very maddening for a lot of HC alumni....most know we absolutely blew it by going in a certain direction (the creation of the Colonial now Patriot League)...but the stubborness of the administrations from Fr Brooks onward have continued on this path leading the school into an athletic "never never land."

[BucBisonAtLarge]

Thirty years ago Villanova ended then, years later brought back football at the I-AA level, but still does not enjoy much support from the students or community while having a lot of success (enough to worry and irritate Blue Hens' fans annually). You can congratulate the AD that hired the coach and the good fortune of rising with the Yankee/A-10/CAA Football Conference. They are just 63 scholarships(less equivalencies) different. Villanova might on paper be a candidate for the FBS, but the ramp to the conference with Pitt, WVU and TCU is still mighty steep and they dont have UConn's state legislature and lack of an in-state pro franchise to lean on. If they had a facility like Fitton Field, they would still be challenged to keep fannies in the seats. All four schools are much more similar than different, and I argue a breed apart from Canisius, St. Peter's, Siena,Fairfield and kin that walked off the gridiron in the last decades. Sacred Heart is missing from this discussion, but is running an NEC-level program squarely within the league footprint, but maybe lacking the pedigree of the first four.

I am stunned at the lukewarm reception to the open favorable discussion of the scholarship policy by league leadership. As I am still in my 2nd year here, I gather you all have been bruised by the past.

Football is the last Patriot League sport to be opened up to scholarships-- that every other sport has them or could have them, and football does not, is a tension/irony that I believe the presidents cannot ignore indefinitely. If Fordham has not departed, they are on-board for the end of 2012. With a scholarship policy rewritten, Fordham and Georgetown will get to choose again but the core five all-sport members will have to live with the consequences, including leaving the conference attractive to potential new all-sport members with football programs.

[kdinva]

[/U][/B]

VMI has made overtures in the past for PL membership, but rejected. I think their biggest impediment is West Point and Annapolis who look down their noses as the "state" military college. Not sure if their academic footprint is sufficient for the PL ivories.


VMI's academic footprint is on par with everyone's in this country. Book it!!

And VMI football would not be interested in a scholarship-limit Conference.

[kdinva]

If VMI joined the PL today with 63 scholarships, and the rest of the league stayed as is, I think they still have a losing league record more often than not. They joined the Big South to play a more competitive schedule and still still can't break .500.

Times are a changin', my lad. We're very excited about 2011,

[Franks Tanks]

Times are a changin', my lad. We're very excited about 2011,

I hope VMI can get it done. You guys do it the right way-- with quality student athletes who graduate. I will be rooting for you guys, but I will believe it when I see it!

[ngineer]

VMI's academic footprint is on par with everyone's in this country. Book it!!

And VMI football would not be interested in a scholarship-limit Conference.

I don't disagree with you. I think VMI would be a nice fit for the PL. But the 'powers that be' have different perspectives than us fans.