6 teams required for autobid?

[Hansel]

Came across this

"An exception to the six-team requirement per NCAA bylaw 31.3.4.4.-(c) has been granted to the Atlantic Coast and Big 12 conferences and the East and West regionals that they be allowed automatic qualifiers to the NCAA Division I Wrestling Championships"

http://ncaasports.com/images/ncaasports/wrestling/05_MEM_DI_AllocationQualifiers.pdf

Maybe the Big South or GWFC could petition for an autobid with only 5 members, unlikely it would work... but there is precedent.

[slostang]

Good work Hansel. I think you are right that it probably would not be excepted, but it would sure make scheduling a second I-A not as dangerous if you have a safety net of an autobid.

[rokamortis]

I don't think there is a chance right now because of the 16 team playoff structure. If the playoffs were expanded to 24 or 32 teams then this would have a much better chance, but right now they would just be opening up too many cans of worms by artificially allowing more eligible conferences than they have autobids for.

[*****]

more sports in shorts... crazy.

[Hansel]

more sports in shorts... crazy.
Singlets, not shorts ;), just got done watching the tourney on TV 20k plus were in attendance for the finals, there were also a few wrestlers from IAA sponsoring schools in the championship round :)

[Hansel]

I don't think there is a chance right now because of the 16 team playoff structure. If the playoffs were expanded to 24 or 32 teams then this would have a much better chance, but right now they would just be opening up too many cans of worms by artificially allowing more eligible conferences than they have autobids for.
Autobids (if we keep them ;) ), should be based on the quality of conf, not the # of teams. The GWFC had more playoff wins last year (1) than the OVC and MEAC have had in the last 6 years combined.

[*****]

... The GWFC had more playoff wins last year (1) than the OVC and MEAC have had in the last 6 years combined.and unlike the OVC and MEAC, the GWFC has only two teams playoff eligible... and only one playoff win total... and no semifinalists... and no championships... how far do you want to go? ;)

[slostang]

and unlike the OVC and MEAC, the GWFC has only two teams playoff eligible... and only one playoff win total... and no semifinalists... and no championships... how far do you want to go? ;)
Give us time Ralph. We are a very good conference now, just wait until we are a conference that is fully funded with scholarships. We will be a great conference then.

[rokamortis]

Autobids (if we keep them ;) ), should be based on the quality of conf, not the # of teams. The GWFC had more playoff wins last year (1) than the OVC and MEAC have had in the last 6 years combined.

While I agree with you in principle, I think there should be minimums for conferences to be eligible for autobids. Some would argue that the at-large bids reward quality of the conference and the autobids reward participation.

The rules are clear and unfortunately The Big South and Great West do not meet the minimum requirements - but that isn't to say that an exemption / exception should not be made.

Personally, I like the autobids but they need to expand the playoffs if they want to keep them. If we are to stay at 16 teams then get rid of the autos.

[walliver]

The NCAA needs to stick to the six team rule. If auto-bids are awarded to small conferences, it isn't fair to large conferences.

If 5-team conferences get one auto-bid, should the A-10/CAA get two auto bids?

If the Big South had an auto-bid last year, an obviously undeserving Charleston Southern team would have made the playoffs.

Hey, maybe Charleston Southern and Savannah State could form the "Low Country Conference" and apply for an auto-bid:D

[lucchesicourt]

I happen to think that there should be no more than 2 teams from any conference in the playoffs. Why? The conference champion deserves to be there, and one other based on record and strenth of schedule. Let's face it, should a third palce team in a conference be alotted a championship oppotunity? I am thinking, what other football conferences (professionally or amateur) third place team is given such an opportunity? So, why should we be the exception? If you cannot finish first or second, just maybe you are not deserving enough for such an opportunity.
I am sure every member of every conference would like to go. But if you can't compete with the cream in your own conference, why should you be rewarded with such an opportunity?

[GannonFan]

I happen to think that there should be no more than 2 teams from any conference in the playoffs. Why? The conference champion deserves to be there, and one other based on record and strenth of schedule. Let's face it, should a third palce team in a conference be alotted a championship oppotunity? I am thinking, what other football conferences (professionally or amateur) third place team is given such an opportunity? So, why should we be the exception? If you cannot finish first or second, just maybe you are not deserving enough for such an opportunity.
I am sure every member of every conference would like to go. But if you can't compete with the cream in your own conference, why should you be rewarded with such an opportunity?

I don't like this idea at all - wasn't UMass 3rd in the A10 the year they won the national title in 1998? As for other football conferences, both DII and DIII allow a 3rd place team to compete for the championship, so does the NFL, and I'm pretty sure Arena Football may as well. You want the best teams, and that's not always going to be the top 2 in every conference. Some conferences have 6 teams, some have 12 - it's not unreasonable to think that the 3rd place team out of 12 (better than 9 other teams) may be better than a 2nd place team out of 6 (better than 4 other teams). There's more than enough precedent (inside and outside of IAA) to show that there's nothing wrong, and that it actually ensures better teams, to not have a strict rule governing what place you need to finish in your conference to play for the championship. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[89Hen]

Maybe the Big South or GWFC could petition for an autobid with only 5 members, unlikely it would work... but there is precedent.
Can't work unless they take a bid away from another conference. Half the field has to be at-large per NCAA rules.

[89Hen]

I happen to think that there should be no more than 2 teams from any conference in the playoffs. Why? The conference champion deserves to be there, and one other based on record and strenth of schedule. Let's face it, should a third palce team in a conference be alotted a championship oppotunity? I am thinking, what other football conferences (professionally or amateur) third place team is given such an opportunity?
:confused: Third place in a four team DIVISION in the NFL can make the playoffs mathematically.

3 out of 12 in the A10 = 25%
2 out of 8 from the Gateway or SoCon = 25%
2 out of 7 from the Southland or Patriot = 29%

Why is the second place team from another conference automatically better than the third place from another conference?

[Paladin1aa]

YSU won the I-AA National Championship after finishing third in the GFC (and was almost $crewed again getting in).

Course, we not as tough as that bruiser, the PL.

[colgate13]

Course, we not as tough as that bruiser, the PL.

What have you done for me lately? Oh, that's right - a PL team has made it farther in the playoffs more recently than YSU has.

Jeez - give it a rest. :rolleyes:

[lucchesicourt]

I am not saying a third place team is better than a second place team in another conference. For all that matter a third place team may be better than a first place team with an auto bid. However, it has already been established (during the regular season)that a third place team is not the best in their own conference, never mind being the national champion. However,an argument that says a third place team is better than some first place teams may be a good reason to eliminate autobids.
As for an NFL team finishing in third place in their division and receiving a playoff opportunity,, I do not see it. Each team plays two games within their division against each team. The top two teams in the division need divisional wins to win the title or at least get a high ranking. but, if all teams within a conference are pretty much .500 teams, then it may be possible. But, I have never seen it. There are 16 teams in each conference with 3 autobids and TWO wild cards. it is highly unlikely that two wild cards can come out of the same division based on interdivision games. It would require pretty much an unblemished interconference and interdivision record to establish them as being a top team.
The only leagues that offer this opportunity as a regular event are the NBA and NHL. Do any of you guys believe that an NBA team under .500 (especially in the Eastern conference) deserves the opportunity? If so, I'll support the argument that 3rd place teams should be playofff elgible.
I believe the NHL and NBA offer too many teams the chance to win. Why? Because on ANY GIVEN DAY!!!!

[GannonFan]

Granted, it is decidedly harder for a 3rd place division winner now in the NFL to make the playoffs, but it's not impossible. And back when there were only 3 divisions in each conference a 3rd place team often made the playoffs. You could argue that it's still basically happening today, but the spreading out of teams over 4 divisions hides that (now that 3rd place team is a 2nd place team is a weaker, thinner division) - if you make enough divisions that are small enough then sure, you'll never get a 3rd place team in - but that's getting back to the point that in larger groupings (bigger conferences, bigger divisions) that a 3rd place team could be much better than a higher finishing team in a small (by number) conference. And there's certainly times when a team that doesn't win a conference, or finishes 3rd, is probably better than a 1st place team in some other conference. There are and always will be conferences that at any particular time are pretty weak. Right now, the OVC is in a real rut in that regard (they weren't always and probably won't always be, but right now they are) - you could easily argue and succeed in saying that a 3rd place team from the A10/CAA, Southern, or Gateway is often better than the 1st place team from the OVC. Like I said, I'm not picking on the OVC as any conference can have a dry spell like what they have, but it's very possible and it's happening today that the 3rd place team in a strong conference is better than the 1st place team in a weak conference.

[89Hen]

However, it has already been established (during the regular season)that a third place team is not the best in their own conference, never mind being the national champion.

It has already been established that half the field in our 16 team playoff were not the best in their own conference. YSU has won the NC and has never won a Gateway title. UMass was #3 in the A10 in 1998 when they won the NC. After the autos, the best 8 teams available should be chosen with no regard to what conference they are in.


As for an NFL team finishing in third place in their division and receiving a playoff opportunity,, I do not see it.... It would require pretty much an unblemished interconference and interdivision record to establish them as being a top team.

As unlikely as it may be, there is no rule against it. In 2004 Buffalo was only one game back of Denver for the final WC spot with the Jets already having the first. If you have a real dog as your fourth team and they go 0-6 in the division and the top three teams split and do well out of the division... it's really not too far fetched.


The only leagues that offer this opportunity as a regular event are the NBA and NHL. Do any of you guys believe that an NBA team under .500 (especially in the Eastern conference) deserves the opportunity?

Hyperbole. The NBA and NHL have absolutely nothing to do with this discussion. Hell, we don't even let in 7-4 let alone .500 or sub .500 teams. 8-3 (.727) gets you in the playoffs in just about every sport in the world. That's hall of fame. To get that high in NFL you have to be 12-4. I don't think you'd have too many people say that 12-4 shouldn't be in the NFL playoffs. If you want to compare to other sports, when was the last time a MLB team got to .727? I'm not sure it's ever happened.

[GannonFan]

What's interesting by bringing up the NBA and NHL points, some conferences, especially the smaller ones, could end up sending a team to the IAA playoffs with a losing record - a conference with only 6 teams will only play 5 conference games and as such could go 5-0 in those and 0-6 in the other games and still make the playoffs. Just because they finished first in their conference certainly by no means implies, in that case, that they are better than any non-first place team in another conference. I don't think a team with an overall losing record has made it into the IAA playoffs yet, but with smaller and smaller conferences in some cases the possibility exists. I know a 7-4 or a 7-5 team has made it - has a 6-5 team made it?

[89Hen]

Granted, it is decidedly harder for a 3rd place division winner now in the NFL to make the playoffs, but it's not impossible. And back when there were only 3 divisions in each conference a 3rd place team often made the playoffs.

Damn GF, we're a pretty good tandem, people are probably wondering if we're the same person. On your point, I'll go one better...

1994 Central Division
Minnesota 10-6 Division Champs
Green Bay 9-7 Wild Card
Detroit 9-7 Wild Card
Chicago 9-7 Wild Card

1997 Central Division
Green Bay 13-3 Division Champs
Tampa Bay 10-6 Wild Card
Detroit 9-7 Wild Card
Minnesota 9-7 Wild Card

1998 Eastern Division
NY Jets 12-4 Division Champs
Miami 10-6 Wild Card
Buffalo 10-6 Wild Card
New England 9-7 Wild Card

[89Hen]

but with smaller and smaller conferences in some cases the possibility exists. I know a 7-4 or a 7-5 team has made it - has a 6-5 team made it?
It's like the Sun Belt sending their 5-6 champion to a bowl. I don't think we'll get to that point because it seems as though our conferences are growing instead of shrinking. What we may see is the Great West or Big South disbanding and being absorbed by others.

I can't think of any 6-5 teams, but Montana State was 7-5 two years in a row (wins over St. Mary's 2x, Adams and G-W helped them avoid being 6-5 or worse :p )

[Tod]

If you want to compare to other sports, when was the last time a MLB team got to .727? I'm not sure it's ever happened.

I'm not baseball expert, but I believe the record is held by the 2001 Seattle Mariners, 116-46 (.716).