Academic Index redux

[RichH2]

Seems that Ivies have raised the minimum AI . Altho their mode of computation somewhat different than PL, I would guess it will help PL recruit a bit more successfully with IL . Altho if economy goes into reverse again the speculation may be moot as more parents will send kids even w/o schollie to cheaper state schools since we give only based on need. Then again we may have many more poor parents than ever before :(

[DFW HOYA]

Since you brought it up...

After 25 years, exactly WHY does the Patriot League still need the AI? I'm not saying the PL can't have high standards, but why not its own standards?. It can require kids in the top 20% of their high school class, an SAT of 1200 out of 1600, three letters of recommendation, whatever it wants. But why does it need to be so deferential, to be Ivy Lite? Does any other conference in the nation base its admissions criteria largely on what another conference decides to do? No one is going to make the case that without the AI, suddenly Colgate is recruiting kids that can't get into West Virginia.

In the last 20 years, how many schools have adopted this deferential aproach to football recruiting? Towson, for one, but only as a way-point to getting into its native conference. Georgetown, a little too idealistic, perhaps, thought that the AI provided a level playing field, which was anything but. Arguably, Georgetown got better quality athletes at the end of the MAAC era.

So, is any other school in line to adopt the Index? UNH, are you ready to restrict your recruiting to what works at Princeton? How about you, Maine? Any interest, Monmouth? Not a one.

When Fordham gives notice next year and the NEC passes it by in the ratings, the PL will either creep along at six indefinitely or close up shop within a matter of years, all because it follows in tow from the Ivy League. So let's keep up the mantle of "The Last Amateurs". Before long, the operative word will be "last".

[Sader87]

Beating a very dead horse, but the PL (and its policies) effectively destroyed HC football. Crowds at Fitton, prior to joining the PL, were regularly in the 15-20 K range, alumni and local interest in the football team was very high, the product on the field was clearly superior....fast forward to 2010, despite the very best efforts of Coach Gilmore and his players, very few alums want to be bothered to attend a PL game (attendence is regularly around 5K), local interest is near zero and there are very few (if any) "reach" games (occasional FBS schools) on the schedule. The PL has done nothing but hurt HC football in nearly every way possible.

[colorless raider]

Beating a very dead horse, but the PL (and its policies) effectively destroyed HC football. Crowds at Fitton, prior to joining the PL, were regularly in the 15-20 K range, alumni and local interest in the football team was very high, the product on the field was clearly superior....fast forward to 2010, despite the very best efforts of Coach Gilmore and his players, very few alums want to be bothered to attend a PL game (attendence is regularly around 5K), local interest is near zero and there are very few (if any) "reach" games (occasional FBS schools) on the schedule. The PL has done nothing but hurt HC football in nearly every way possible.


You are correct. As for DFW there is 0 chance the Ivy wanna be presidents drop the AI. Pathetic that they have no self confidence and have to mimic the Ivies.

[bonarae]

As for DFW there is 0 chance the Ivy wanna be presidents drop the AI.

The fans' Ivy wish list number three? xcoffeex xchinscratchx

[Go...gate]

Since you brought it up...

After 25 years, exactly WHY does the Patriot League still need the AI? I'm not saying the PL can't have high standards, but why not its own standards?. It can require kids in the top 20% of their high school class, an SAT of 1200 out of 1600, three letters of recommendation, whatever it wants. But why does it need to be so deferential, to be Ivy Lite? Does any other conference in the nation base its admissions criteria largely on what another conference decides to do? No one is going to make the case that without the AI, suddenly Colgate is recruiting kids that can't get into West Virginia.

In the last 20 years, how many schools have adopted this deferential aproach to football recruiting? Towson, for one, but only as a way-point to getting into its native conference. Georgetown, a little too idealistic, perhaps, thought that the AI provided a level playing field, which was anything but. Arguably, Georgetown got better quality athletes at the end of the MAAC era.

So, is any other school in line to adopt the Index? UNH, are you ready to restrict your recruiting to what works at Princeton? How about you, Maine? Any interest, Monmouth? Not a one.

When Fordham gives notice next year and the NEC passes it by in the ratings, the PL will either creep along at six indefinitely or close up shop within a matter of years, all because it follows in tow from the Ivy League. So let's keep up the mantle of "The Last Amateurs". Before long, the operative word will be "last".

Your point is well taken, but Georgetown's problems have as much to do with their lack of commitment to football compared with the rest of the Patriot League.

[dgtw]

What is the Academic Index?

[DFW HOYA]

Your point is well taken, but Georgetown's problems have as much to do with their lack of commitment to football compared with the rest of the Patriot League.

Enough with this "lack of commitment" nonsense. Georgetown has the full complement of coaches, has a complete roster (it's not like they're suiting up 55 or something) maintains recruiting budgets, maintains full need financial aid, and hasn't been put on probation by the league. If it's not meeting the obligations set forth by the league, tell your president to act on it. Yes, it can't get a facility built, but NONE of the Georgetown teams can, not even basketball. Would you argue that there is a lack of commitment in basketball, too?

You can play football in a palace or a parking lot, but if you don't have success in getting the right players to attend, you don't win. The AI basically tells 90% of the prospect base nationwide to get lost, and we wonder why the NEC is pulling up in the rear view mirror?

[RichH2]

Simply the AI was implemented to prevent any conferences member from bringing in recruits substantially below the average academic qualifications of all the member institutions Prior to that PL relied solely on each school's frosh class being within a certain % of that school's entire class. This AI was specifically aimed at Fordham as they could under prior rules admit a much broader band of athlete than the rest of the PL. Among academically equivalent schools , the program is a " Ivy wanna be" concept. But we have it and until our Presses grow a set or IL scraps their AI it will stay. If we ever go schollie and if we get some new schools like UNH or URI issue will bloom again as while both good schools they have an even wider scope of possible recruits than Fordham.

My only point with IL rasing minimum AI is will it help PL?

[Bogus Megapardus]

What is the Academic Index?

In a nutshell, it means that Patriot League members are limited by academic constraints to about 8% of all college-eligible football players, and further are limited by an inability to award athletic scholarships.

There are some who suggest that this rule might, to some extent, impact members' on-the-field competitiveness.

[RichH2]

xeyebrowxGee, Bogie how could you even suggest that anyone might think that current PL policies might in any way be counterproductive to fielding the best academic and athletic teams possible.xshhhx

[jimbo65]

Enough with this "lack of commitment" nonsense. Georgetown has the full complement of coaches, has a complete roster (it's not like they're suiting up 55 or something) maintains recruiting budgets, maintains full need financial aid, and hasn't been put on probation by the league. If it's not meeting the obligations set forth by the league, tell your president to act on it. Yes, it can't get a facility built, but NONE of the Georgetown teams can, not even basketball. Would you argue that there is a lack of commitment in basketball, too?

You can play football in a palace or a parking lot, but if you don't have success in getting the right players to attend, you don't win. The AI basically tells 90% of the prospect base nationwide to get lost, and we wonder why the NEC is pulling up in the rear view mirror?
Here is a ? for you. How well would GTown fare if they held the basketball team to the same academic reqs. as fball but remained in the BE. Obviously they would likely lose all the games. While I don't know this, my bet would be that the player you cited to start this thread is on at least a par with the vast majority of schollie bball players GTown had had over the last 20 years or so. Granted there are different reqs. for the BE than the PL but to me Gtown, not you, are hypocritical in their approach to bball v. other sports. Somehow its ok to bend a bit for bball particularly since it is a $ maker.

[DFW HOYA]

Here is a ? for you. How well would GTown fare if they held the basketball team to the same academic reqs. as fball but remained in the BE. Obviously they would likely lose all the games. While I don't know this, my bet would be that the player you cited to start this thread is on at least a par with the vast majority of schollie bball players GTown had had over the last 20 years or so. Granted there are different reqs. for the BE than the PL but to me Gtown, not you, are hypocritical in their approach to bball v. other sports. Somehow its ok to bend a bit for bball particularly since it is a $ maker.

Not at all. The Big East has one standard, the Patriot League another. Georgetown doesn't use an academic index to admit athletes in track or baseball or soccer or any sport outside FB, because that is not part of the Big East's rules.

Fordham follows the A-10 eligibility rules in its other sports, probably much like the Big East. Is it still following the PL's rules in football?

[Seawolf97]

I think this new recruit Fordham just signed is a sign of things to come. Fordham is moving forward with scheduling BCS teams , recruiting like an everyday FCS school and not concerned with PL public opinion . Why do I think they wont come back to the PL scholarships or no scholarships.

[Bogus Megapardus]

xeyebrowxGee, Bogie how could you even suggest that anyone might think that current PL policies might in any way be counterproductive to fielding the best academic and athletic teams possible.xshhhx

Tongue planted firmly in cheek, of course.

If we're settled with playing only the Ivies and the private NEC schools, plus Marist/Davidson/Drake from the PFL and the occasional SoCon private school, then the PL remains (somewhat) competitive.

But if we want to perform like Villanova, Richmond and W&M, things must change, of course. I have no doubt that we can be competitive with such institutions, but scholarships must begin and the AI has to go in order to do so. The question, as always, is, "what is best for our members?" We all seem to agree (for the most part) that such a change will alter - probably radically - our long-standing Ivy ties.

I have said, time and again on this board, that I enjoy our long-tenured, historic rivalries with the schools that now make up the IL. I don't want to give then up. These rivalries began long before there even was an IL - the IL moniker is far less important than the rivalry itself. The games are easy to get to and take place in fabulous stadia located on beautiful campuses across the northeast. We bring our children and their cousins to these places where they can experience them even if they choose not to attend our own alma mater.

I admit bias because I hold an undergraduate degree from a PL school and a graduate degree from an IL school but many, many PL grads row in the same boat as do I in this regard. My allegiance remains with Lafayette; while I am all in favor of a workable compromise, I simply will not forgo the tradition of the game this small circle of colleges invented in the first place.