WKU Set to Join the MAC for BBall now and FBall Later

[RadMann]

According to people on the MAC boards it is certain that Temple will join the MAC now for football and all-sports in 2008. WKU will join for basketball now and all-sports (including football) by 2008. See link below:
MAC Bords (http://www.ncaabbs.com/forums/mac/invision/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=21196&)

[Paladin1aa]

And I expect neither to be around for very long !! :p

Both will be conference -shopping !! :D

[greenG]

According to people on the MAC boards it is certain that Temple will join the MAC now for football and all-sports in 2008. WKU will join for basketball now and all-sports (including football) by 2008. See link below:
MAC Bords (http://www.ncaabbs.com/forums/mac/invision/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=21196&)

It certainly looks like that is what will happen. There is a lot of support for WKU entering the conference, less for Temple. Many of us believe TU brings more questions than opportunities and that they will just park themselves in the league until the expected breakup of the Big East in a few years.

[greenG]

And I expect neither to be around for very long !! :p

Both will be conference -shopping !! :D

I disagree as far as WKU is concerned. I believe they truly want to be in the MAC for all sports and will be a long-term member. You are dead on with Temple, though. They won't last long in the MAC repeating the conference's experience with UCF.

[Paladin1aa]

WKU isn't "shopping " for I-A FB per se. They are shopping for a better BB league & the MAC ain't it. They'll go to a better league for BB.

Temple is "shopping" as well. Probably the New "Big Least".

This move will force several MAC teams to leave ( Toledo, Miami and maybe one other).

[dbackjon]

WKU isn't "shopping " for I-A FB per se. They are shopping for a better BB league & the MAC ain't it. They'll go to a better league for BB.

Temple is "shopping" as well. Probably the New "Big Least".

This move will force several MAC teams to leave ( Toledo, Miami and maybe one other).

Why would it force Miami and Toledo to leave? Would they feel it is a downgrade to the MAC?

[Mr. C]

Bad news for WKU football. Are those tears I see in Big Red's eyes, remembering the Hilltoppers; greatest football moment, winning the national title in 2002? WKU has never shown enough support for football, crowd-wise, as I-AA team. I don't see things getting much better for them as a I-A. This is all about basketball, it is a shame to say.

[Paladin1aa]

dbackjon -- its about revenue sharing. More teams ,less money. Several programs are much better than the MAC in general and need to leave for "greener" pastures. :p

[dbackjon]

dbackjon -- its about revenue sharing. More teams ,less money. Several programs are much better than the MAC in general and need to leave for "greener" pastures. :p

What other options would say Toledo and Miami have? C-USA?

[Paladin1aa]

Maybe. Big Least is also possible. I-A conferences are going to be in flux over the next 3-5 years as re-alignment shuffles teams around.

[Golden Eagle]

Not too surprising. I mean, if Middle Tennessee can pull it off, why not WKU?

I congratulate the Toppers on earning a spot as I-A bottomfeeders.

[galojay]

Ah, Paladin1aa... I wondered where you went. Were you banned from the MAC board or something? Haven't seen you around. I am glad you know more about WKU sports ins and outs than their boosters and alumni. Oh great one, tell us what else you know about Western Kentucky?

I'm not sure what other conference you think WKU has its eyes on. I'm nervous about the change to I-A, but I trust our administration. We have some great minds running the university right now, I trust what they decide is best for WKU.

[Paladin1aa]

Ah, yes -- Jeff,the "brain trust" of WKU. I've been following the MAC board & others in this "soap opera". Humorous , to say the least.

I give you 5, 6 years tops before WKU BB opts for "greener pastures" !! :D
Meaning in all likelihood FB goes with it. Your previous assertions that BB at WKU doesn't "wag" the dog's tail is , well--

:deadhorse


Your "outstanding" FB attendance also preceeds you. :p

Welcome to the bottom-feeding I-A MAC .

"Road kill" isn't just a meal in KY., its a way of life in the MAC. :nod:

[galojay]

Greener pastures... again, I ask you, where would WKU go? I never said BB or anything did or didn't control WKU. I will say this... *IF* BB DID wag the dog at WKU, WKU would *NOT* be moving to the MAC. WKU would have made another move. Right now, going I-A in Football controls WKU... and the actions that WKU is taking proves that. You know very little of what actually is going on. Of course you've been saying all along that the MAC was not interested in WKU, and we see that you were wrong there as well.

I take it have been banned from the MAC board, by your comments. I guess they got tired of a Youngstown State fan crying that they didn't get accepted into the MAC during the last round of expansions. Clean up your milk and move on.

You'll have to tell me what it's like being a bottom-feeding school, since YSU does a wonderful job of that in the Gateway these days!

[Paladin1aa]

Keep patting yourself on the back. You are "insurance" for other teams who are thinking about leaving. And will in the next few years. Kent St. Akron ,East. Mich will be your bottom feeding "soul-mates " !! :p

Still posting on the MAC board,just not as often. I'm laughing too hard.

[galojay]

I don't think I was patting my back, but ok. So you dodged the question again... greener pastures, where? Now you're saying we are staying to cover other teams. Make up your mind. I know you don't like WKU since they've come to the Gateway and taken over the prominence of Youngstown, but at least keep your ramblings straight. For someone who hates the MAC, you sure do care an awful lot about it. I know you wanted YSU in the MAC and are upset they aren't. You must really hate the MAC for voting YSU down. You are so full of it. You just like to throw out random insults with no rhyme or reason. Keep on making yourself look like an idiot. You're exposing yourself to everyone. I'm done with you.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

WKU Topper Jeff's new sig after the I-A move:

WKU - in 2015, we had a winning record!
Topped 10,000 average attendance in 2019!
1 Bowl Appearance - Poulan Weed-Eater Bowl! (lost to 6-5 Alabama 41-12)

Anyone who is lining up for this future - I certainly wouldn't call them "great minds". "Dumbasses" comes more to mind.

[galojay]

Ralph, I know the NCAA ruling on April 28th was crucial to WKU's plans. I think WKU will look to play a game in Nashville at the Tennessee Titan's stadium against a large draw and use it as a home game. That and I think their will be a spike in attendance when we do go I-A.

Yes it does make me nervous too. But like I said, I trust our administration. Most prior administrations I wouldn't trust to make this move, but I trust this one.

[Paladin1aa]

Greener pastures ?? Where-ever someone is dumb enough to take the globetrotting Toppers. Now its the MAC but you won't like the money, so where your BB program takes you is anyones's guess.

Several MAC teams are ready to leave ( not enough $$$) and you are being brought in to cover there azz. Using each other. MAC & WKU.

Perfect !!

P.S. Jeff - you need to get your FB into I- A before your BB can go "really big time ". As it is, you can't go anywhere until you "use" the MAC to align your sports into I-A. Then BB is free to drag you to another "major conference" where FB becomes the Temple of the league. Oh, I forgot --TEMPLE IS JOINING YOU IN THE MAC. :p :p :p :D :nod:

[Hansel]

the smart move for WKU would be to go MVC in BB (if they are taking anybody) and either stay in the gateway or sunbelch it for FB

The MAC is a bad FB conf. and a 1 bid BB conf

[igo4uni]

the smart move for WKU would be to go MVC in BB (if they are taking anybody) and either stay in the gateway or sunbelch it for FB

The MAC is a bad FB conf. and a 1 bid BB conf

Now, that is a good idea!!

The Missouri Valley Conference is doing awesome in basketball lately.

As far as football goes, I know that I would rather play in a top tier I-AA league than be lost in the shuffle of a bottom tier I-A league.

peace

igo4uni

[arkstfan]

I find it mildly ironic, but understandable what WKU is wanting to do.

WKU has never been a fan of the football oriented expansion of the Sun Belt and they want to move to the MAC where a large portion of their basketball revenue was consumed funding bowl opportunities last year.

But I think it comes down to the following factors.
1. Basketball. The computers say the MAC is better than the Sun Belt despite the results head-to-head.
2. Disgruntlement from realignment. WKU moved from the OVC to a very different Sun Belt. South Alabama is the only school left that was in the Belt with them when they joined. The last six schools added to the Belt were added because of I-A football. Look at the WAC. Who talks and talked the most about leaving the WAC? Fresno, Hawaii, and UTEP, WAC schools there before WAC-16 and left behind when the MWC was formed.
3. Basketball (again). Look at the conferences rated ahead of the Sun Belt in basketball. Only three don't sponsor I-A football, the WCC (not feasible), the MoValley (showing no inclination to expand outside of inquiring about the interest at St. Louis when they left CUSA) and the A-10 which is now a monster sized league in hoops and unlikely to expand. To go up the basketball food chain requires either being a Gonzaga that can dominate a lesser league and being a rising tide lifting all boats. WKU hasn't been able to win in the Dance in around a decade so next option is another league.
4. Natural base. Look at where WKU recruits football. They do quite a bit of recruiting in the MAC footprint. MAC membership ought to help improve that. Contrast that with MTSU who some have mentioned for the MAC. They don't have a single football player recruited from any place north of Tennessee.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I find it mildly ironic, but understandable what WKU is wanting to do....

WKU has never been a fan of the football oriented expansion of the Sun Belt and they want to move to the MAC where a large portion of their basketball revenue was consumed funding bowl opportunities last year.

But I think it comes down to the following factors.
...
3. Basketball (again). Look at the conferences rated ahead of the Sun Belt in basketball. Only three don't sponsor I-A football, the WCC (not feasible), the MoValley (showing no inclination to expand outside of inquiring about the interest at St. Louis when they left CUSA) and the A-10 which is now a monster sized league in hoops and unlikely to expand. To go up the basketball food chain requires either being a Gonzaga that can dominate a lesser league and being a rising tide lifting all boats. WKU hasn't been able to win in the Dance in around a decade so next option is another league.
...
4. Natural base. Look at where WKU recruits football. They do quite a bit of recruiting in the MAC footprint. MAC membership ought to help improve that. Contrast that with MTSU who some have mentioned for the MAC. They don't have a single football player recruited from any place north of Tennessee.

3. You admit as basketball conferences they are basically a wash. How does moving to the MAC make WKU's basketball significantly better? You haven't made that case. Better competion? More bids? Better tourney success? I don't see how the MAC is such an upgrade over the Sun Belt, and from the looks of the post you're hard pressed to show benefits as well.

4. If WKU recruits in the MAC footprint already, then why would you join the MAC, and why would the MAC want them? You want to expand your recruiting area, not mine the same caves! MTSU actually makes more sense since they expand the MAC footprint to Tennessee, and MTSU can now get more success (theoretically) getting recruits from Michigan and Ohio.

[arkstfan]

3. You admit as basketball conferences they are basically a wash. How does moving to the MAC make WKU's basketball significantly better? You haven't made that case. Better competion? More bids? Better tourney success? I don't see how the MAC is such an upgrade over the Sun Belt, and from the looks of the post you're hard pressed to show benefits as well.

4. If WKU recruits in the MAC footprint already, then why would you join the MAC, and why would the MAC want them? You want to expand your recruiting area, not mine the same caves! MTSU actually makes more sense since they expand the MAC footprint to Tennessee, and MTSU can now get more success (theoretically) getting recruits from Michigan and Ohio.

Sorry but a WKU or MAC fan will have to make the case in hoops.

As to recruiting, WKU would be playing more games in that region increasing their profile and in theory improving recruiting.

As to MTSU it slices them off from games in their established recruiting base, making it harder to get players when they aren't going to be playing games in the region except for home games.

[Paladin1aa]

arkstfan has a point. Everything that goes on in WKU is a direct result in what will benefit BB . Here's the point that everyone misses --

If you want a Big I-A conference for BB, who will take your I-AA FB program ?? Yeah, right !! Answer --lowlifes like the MAC. BUT -- once you are I -A everything, the chance of moving to Big I-A is enhanced. To split your programs between leagues is "poor" for the sports program & doesn't really create "national status". All should be in a Big I-A for "status".

Nobody really gives a crap about at WKU about FB , not even after a NC. Its BB and the "braintrust " is working overtime to "get there".

[galojay]

The MVC would do me just fine.

[rokamortis]

If you want a Big I-A conference for BB, who will take your I-AA FB program ?? Yeah, right !! Answer --lowlifes like the MAC. BUT -- once you are I -A everything, the chance of moving to Big I-A is enhanced.

In Division I basketball there is no A or AA - it is all the same animal.

[P2TheB]

A move to the MVC would be great, IMO for WKU. However, I don't see the MVC expanding. It's too bad, because I have heard rumors on the Valley message boards that the MVC is getting ready to ink a deal with CBS for basketball. Pretty good, IMO.

If the Valley were to expand, I would like to see them add SLU and WKU. It would please the private institutions in the Valley, as well as add more media markets. However, SLU doesn't want the MVC (funny, they think they are better than us!) and the commish doesn't seem to want to go to a 12 team conference (can't argue with that either...I enjoy the round robin scheduling).

[Lehigh Football Nation]

...
If you want a Big I-A conference for BB, who will take your I-AA FB program ?? Yeah, right !! Answer --lowlifes like the MAC. BUT -- once you are I -A everything, the chance of moving to Big I-A is enhanced...

Name any school that has made it from I-AA to "big" I-A. I can name 2 schools - UConn and Marshall. Marshall labored in the MAC before getting into what debatably is a "big" I-A football conference, C-USA. UConn was an independent before settling into the Big East (a confererence that they have defined in men's basketball) that barely qualifies as "big".

If you take out any conference that realistically has a chance at a national title, that leaves 0 teams. Thus the myth of "go to a crap conference before you hit the big time" is officially debunked.

[GannonFan]

Uconn got into the Big East because they were a charter member and by rule they had to be taken in by the Big East should they ever have DIA football, which is what happened. As the Big East still has a BCS bid, I'd say that is big time, regardless of the on the field level of the Big East. Marshall, IMO, has not really made it yet - the move from the MAC to CUSA is one of desperation I feel. Gone are the heady days of Randy Moss and Chad Pennington and Byron Leftwich - Marshall was only .500 last year, is starting to see attendance at home slip, and had to eat a chunk of bowl tickets allotted to them because the Marshall faithful are growing weary of meaningless bowl games in parts unknown. It's one thing to play a bowl game in New Orleans, it's quite another to play in Boise or Detroit. Let's look at Marshall in another 10 years to see if they made it or if they can be thrown on the Idaho-Nevada-LA Monroe scrapheap of former IAA powers that now flounder at the next level.

[Eagle_77]

Very well said GannonFan

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Uconn got into the Big East because they were a charter member and by rule they had to be taken in by the Big East should they ever have DIA football, which is what happened. As the Big East still has a BCS bid, I'd say that is big time, regardless of the on the field level of the Big East. Marshall, IMO, has not really made it yet - the move from the MAC to CUSA is one of desperation I feel. Gone are the heady days of Randy Moss and Chad Pennington and Byron Leftwich - Marshall was only .500 last year, is starting to see attendance at home slip, and had to eat a chunk of bowl tickets allotted to them because the Marshall faithful are growing weary of meaningless bowl games in parts unknown. It's one thing to play a bowl game in New Orleans, it's quite another to play in Boise or Detroit. Let's look at Marshall in another 10 years to see if they made it or if they can be thrown on the Idaho-Nevada-LA Monroe scrapheap of former IAA powers that now flounder at the next level.

Agreed, well said. Bringing this back to WKU, so let's recap - questionable men's b-ball benefit, the only team that has successfully made it into a good I-A conference from I-AA is UConn (who everyone can agree is a unique case).

So, bring it on... exactly WHAT are the benefits....?

[Paladin1aa]

Lehigh, you make my point . WKU can't go Big East or any other Big I-A until they get their I-AA FB into I-A. Once there ( I-A in the MAC) , they are free to move to a bigger ( and more lucrative TV contract) league.

And its still about BB. Watching the 15k attendance dance & WKU success( or lack of in I-A) will make this hilarious. But "Big Red" is looking for more chances to "the big dance". Fb be damned.

[Mr. C]

Name any school that has made it from I-AA to "big" I-A. I can name 2 schools - UConn and Marshall. Marshall labored in the MAC before getting into what debatably is a "big" I-A football conference, C-USA. UConn was an independent before settling into the Big East (a confererence that they have defined in men's basketball) that barely qualifies as "big".

If you take out any conference that realistically has a chance at a national title, that leaves 0 teams. Thus the myth of "go to a crap conference before you hit the big time" is officially debunked.

Boise State has probably been as successful as anyone making the jump. Marshall appears to be in a down swing and UConn hasn't been at I-A long enough to know how things will play out. One or two good years don't make them successful. Idaho had a couple of good years before they went in the tank. Boise State has established themselves as the best team in the WAC, a WAC that includes solid programs like Fresno State and Hawaii. Troy State is another school that seemed to be turning a corner last year, but the jury is still out.

Most of us in the world of I-AA see the futility in moving to I-A. It's like those Enzite commercials. It offers most schools very little, but a boost of false confidence.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Lehigh, you make my point . WKU can't go Big East or any other Big I-A until they get their I-AA FB into I-A. Once there ( I-A in the MAC) , they are free to move to a bigger ( and more lucrative TV contract) league.

And its still about BB. Watching the 15k attendance dance & WKU success( or lack of in I-A) will make this hilarious. But "Big Red" is looking for more chances to "the big dance". Fb be damned.

They are "free" to go into I-A football whenever they wish. The question is: which conference will want to take them now? 5 years from now? 10 years from now? They are not "free" to join the Big East or any conference. They MAY be accepted as a member of a conference. If they're more successful at the gate than thay've proven at the I-AA level. If they can show they can create a good I-A football team. And they'll also need to be incredibly lucky.

If you think C-USA and the Big East are big lucrative TV contracts, think again. It's about BCS money. The only two schools that made into these lower-tier, a-snowball's-chance-in-heck-to-win-a-national-championship conferences are UConn (who were a unique case) and Marshall (who had great attendance at the I-AA and very good programs at the I-A level... and only got into C-USA when Louisville got plucked but the Big East).

Of course...

:deadhorse

For 99.99% of I-AA porgrams, making the jump to I-A is a mistake... and WKU looks like a prototypical "mistake" jump.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Boise State has probably been as successful as anyone making the jump. Marshall appears to be in a down swing and UConn hasn't been at I-A long enough to know how things will play out. One or two good years don't make them successful. Idaho had a couple of good years before they went in the tank. Boise State has established themselves as the best team in the WAC, a WAC that includes solid programs like Fresno State and Hawaii. Troy State is another school that seemed to be turning a corner last year, but the jury is still out.

Most of us in the world of I-AA see the futility in moving to I-A. It's like those Enzite commercials. It offers most schools very little, but a boost of false confidence.

A fair point about Boise St. I didn't think of the WAC as a big-time conference, but you could argue that it's the equivalent of C-USA, or maybe even superior. However, Boise St.'s 12-0 record got them a Top 10 ranking and no share of the national championship too - and people (myself included) don't remember them from USC or Auburn.

[galojay]

I think Butler and WKU would be a good expansion for MVC.

[galojay]

Name any school that has made it from I-AA to "big" I-A. I can name 2 schools - UConn and Marshall. Marshall labored in the MAC before getting into what debatably is a "big" I-A football conference, C-USA. UConn was an independent before settling into the Big East (a confererence that they have defined in men's basketball) that barely qualifies as "big".

Louisville I believe.

[Hansel]

I don't beleive Louisville was ever IAA

[Golden Eagle]

I don't beleive Louisville was ever IAA

You're right.

1937-1950 NCAA College Division (Small College)

1951-1951 NCAA University Division (Major College)

1952-1961 NCAA College Division (Small College)

1962-1972 NCAA University Division (Major College)

1973-1977 NCAA Division I

1978-2005 NCAA Division I-A

http://cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_ia/conferenceusa/louisville/index.php

[Pen Guin]

Jeff, I don't think that Butler would ever leave the Horizon. In fact, I thought they were actually a charter member of the MVC, but moved to the then MCC. Horizon teams have been the "darlings of the NCAA tourney" three times since 2001. Twice with Butler & last year with Milwaukee. I am not saying the Horizon is better than the MVC, but certainly as good. Every bit as high-end in men's basketball as the valley (if not more so, in recent post-season play), but not as high-end in women's hoops. Butler, UIC, Detroit, Loyola all have great basketball tradition. Milwaukee has come on strong. The conference fomerly had Notre Dame, Dayton, DePaul, Marquette, Xavier, Bradley, Creighton, Evansville, St. Louis, and others. The conference regularly goes 2 & 3 deep in the NCAA & as much in the NIT. The conference has hosted the NCAA's in 1986, 87, 89, 90, 91, 96, 00, and will host the mens final-4 in 2006 & womens final-4 in 2008. The conference has only had less than 2 teams in the mens tourney 5 times in it's history. WKU does make a good fit location wise & they would be able to maintain GFC football affiliation. The Horizon does need to expand. The only other team I see moving there would be Valpo ... rumor also had it that one of the 2 Dayton schools discussed moving back ... but they have both begun playing well in the A-10, so I do not see it unless the TV contracts come.

[galojay]

You're right the Horizon is a good conference, tough to say which is better. My only other suggestion for expansion for the MVC would be Murray State. I would love to see Murray State and WKU in the MVC. Murray could then join the Gateway conference (turning this towards I-AA Ralph :) ). Although that will never happen because it would cause an even greater unbalance of private and public schools.