NCAA Statement on UND/Mascot

[TexasTerror]

From the NCAA...


The NCAA’s Native American mascot policy remains in effect, and we stand ready to assist the University of North Dakota with its implementation of the policy.

The Big Sky Conference’s position related to the university's Fighting Sioux nickname and logo is consistent with the spirit and intent of the settlement agreement the NCAA reached with the university to retire the nickname and logo.

We have made clear to both the conference and the university that the NCAA has no intention of changing its position.

http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/public/ncaa/resources/latest+news/2011/june/ncaa+statement+on+north+dakota+mascot+issue

[Twentysix]

Hooray, More of my money is going to be funneled into another worthless UND campaign.

[darell1976]

From the NCAA...



http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/public/ncaa/resources/latest+news/2011/june/ncaa+statement+on+north+dakota+mascot+issue

Time for that worthless Bison alumn Al Carlson to shut up about meeting with the NCAA and instead go to Bismarck and get that bill that he came up with overturned.

In an interview with Al Carlson he had to answer this question from KFGO's Joel Heitkamp:


Joel: "Had you known that this would put UND's memeberhip in the Big Sky conference at risk, which was talked about at the time, would you still have voted for and sponsored this bill? "

Carlson: "Ya know, I still think that, ahh, Yes, I would have...."

Are you kidding me Al??? What an idiot. Hey South Fargo....vote him out!!!!

The link to the interview can be seen here:http://forum.siouxsports.com/topic/15781-what-needs-to-happen/page__st__80

[bisonguy]

Time for that worthless Bison alumn Al Carlson to shut up about meeting with the NCAA and instead go to Bismarck and get that bill that he came up with overturned.

In an interview with Al Carlson he had to answer this question from KFGO's Joel Heitkamp:



Are you kidding me Al??? What an idiot. Hey South Fargo....vote him out!!!!

The link to the interview can be seen here:http://forum.siouxsports.com/topic/15781-what-needs-to-happen/page__st__80

Al Carlson might be an NDSU alumni, but he's the #1 Sioux Fan and he has the license plate to prove it:
http://plainsdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Carlson.jpg

[darell1976]

Al Carlson might be an NDSU alumni, but he's the #1 Sioux Fan and he has the license plate to prove it:
http://plainsdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Carlson.jpg

:pumpuke::pumpuke:

[Twentysix]

Al Carlson might be an NDSU alumni, but he's the #1 Sioux Fan and he has the license plate to prove it:
http://plainsdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Carlson.jpg

We dont claim him. He is sioux.

[DJKyR0]

Are you kidding me Al??? What an idiot. Hey South Fargo....vote him out!!!!


We'll do that, meanwhile you get to voting your hockey coach out for his vehement support/call-to-action regarding the bill. http://plainsdaily.com/entry/und_hockey_coach_hakstol_pleads_to_keep_the_fighti ng_sioux_nickname/

[Go Bison]

We'll do that, meanwhile you get to voting your hockey coach out for his vehement support/call-to-action regarding the bill. http://plainsdaily.com/entry/und_hockey_coach_hakstol_pleads_to_keep_the_fighti ng_sioux_nickname/

Not only the hockey coach but all the people who emailed their representatives asking them to vote for the stupid bill in the first place.

[Twentysix]

Not only the hockey coach but all the people who emailed their representatives asking them to vote for the stupid bill in the first place.

Time for a good ol North dakota style lynching for all the people who advocated the bill! That'll show those @#@#ers!

[darell1976]

So who in North Dakota is voting for Al for the US House?

[darell1976]

We dont claim him. He is sioux.

You are stuck with him he is your Alumn.

[Twentysix]

You are stuck with him he is your Alumn.

He has your liscense plate and is a politician. Checkmate.

[darell1976]

He has your liscense plate and is a politician. Checkmate.

2548 Rose Creek Parkway South, Fargo, ND 58104-6699

Fargo address. King me (I don't know how to play chess)

[Twentysix]

2548 Rose Creek Parkway South, Fargo, ND 58104-6699

Fargo address. King me (I don't know how to play chess)

By your logic you are also a bison fan?


darell1976
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And i will most certainly put a checker peice ontop of one of your rooks.

[darell1976]

By your logic you are also a bison fan?



And i will most certainly put a checker peice ontop of one of your rooks.

No but my wife is, and I don't represent a section of North Fargo, like Al does in South Fargo.

[DJKyR0]

No but my wife is, and I don't represent a section of North Fargo, like Al does in South Fargo.

"Whose he is" is regardless. We've been getting screwed by the state for decades, you're the one with something to lose. He's your problem.

[The Eagle's Cliff]

Time for court and UND will win.

[Tod]

Time for court and UND will win.

They'll be thrown out by the Big Sky. They may not think that's a win.

[bisonguy]

Time for court and UND will win.

They already were in court in 2007, which resulted in this settlement and the case was dismissed with prejudice (i.e. no further legal action can be taken by the state of North Dakota or UND) - http://www.ag.state.nd.us/ncaa/SettlementAgreement.pdf

[gjw007]

They already were in court in 2007, which resulted in this settlement and the case was dismissed with prejudice (i.e. no further legal action can be taken by the state of North Dakota or UND) - http://www.ag.state.nd.us/ncaa/SettlementAgreement.pdf

The court challenge was about the process that the NCAA used. The NCAA gave the executive committee the authorized after this lawsuit so in a sense, UND won the principle for which the lawsuit was based. The settlement was a recognition that the point of contention (power of the executive committee) could be changed by a vote of the membership at any time (which as pointed out, did give the executive committee the power). The state law in question did not exist at the time of the out-of-court settlement.

It is a messy situation no matter what happens and there will be bitter feelings that will linger.

[DJKyR0]

At this point it's nickname or conference.

[The Eagle's Cliff]

UND may need to use a different diplomatic approach.



http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQc0F4A1f-491LbXLP6mvYpKN85Nvp4riRj7a3PudH1uC_ORvP3 OR http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ807APeGNcZ8Vod9VEnXTu4GCBOrkO7-J37xWvwG5ZbwOBCMGc


Just a suggestion xangelx

[darell1976]

At this point it's nickname or conference.

Right now everyone (except Crazy Al) is going the conference route. They need to skip the lawsuit, and skip talking to the NCAA, and get that bill repealed and restart the retirement process. Retire the name just stay North Dakota and pick a name later. That way we can stay in the Big Sky.

[The Eagle's Cliff]

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTcaqZzR9JFNJ8r_pTfg-GbEw8TsUsqLq3CN-4_3cujTmXhRgkX

[NoCoDanny]

The could be The Boys Named Sue.

[100%GRIZ]

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTcaqZzR9JFNJ8r_pTfg-GbEw8TsUsqLq3CN-4_3cujTmXhRgkX

Why not the Fighting Sue?

[The Eagle's Cliff]

Why not the Fighting Sue?

UND Warriors

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQyirtMjOGhOKqeoDkj8yFb_LAS0tggw ZVliWxjHzaE6rtAoMtD

[The Eagle's Cliff]

I found the perfect protest logo/name:

UND PC Brand

This brain is the helmet logo

http://www.limestoneroof.com/images/liberal_brain.jpg

[darell1976]

I know for sure that Flickertails will not be our nickname (like it was prior to the Fighting Sioux)!

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y178/darell1976/flickertail.jpg

[darell1976]

http://www.kfgo.com/fargo-moorhead-news.php?ID=0000004531


The president of the University of North Dakota says it's time. Robert Kelley says he believes the legislature must overturn the law and retire the Sioux nickname and logo.

[DJKyR0]

http://www.kfgo.com/fargo-moorhead-news.php?ID=0000004531

Admirable, but Kelley can kiss his job goodbye.

[Hammerhead]

Why not the "Fighting Frenchmen" or "Fighting Trappers" to honor the French explorers where were among the earliest Europeans to explore the area around UND and "Les Grandes Fourches" as Grand Forks used to be called.

[bojeta]

Why not the "Fighting Frenchmen" or "Fighting Trappers" to honor the French explorers where were among the earliest Europeans to explore the area around UND and "Les Grandes Fourches" as Grand Forks used to be called.

So, the new mascot would be:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v455/bojeta/College%20Sports/fightingfrogs.jpg

[bojeta]

Right now everyone (except Crazy Al) is going the conference route. They need to skip the lawsuit, and skip talking to the NCAA, and get that bill repealed and restart the retirement process. Retire the name just stay North Dakota and pick a name later. That way we can stay in the Big Sky.

You could go the route of Stanford and just pick a color. The North Dakota Green. Stanford did it as a bit of a slap to those that forced them to drop Indians as their mascot. They figured no one could ever sue them over a color. They picked Cardinal because it added to the joke. To paraphrase, It's not a bird, just a color so let's not have any lawsuits from bird lovers. Then they added the tree to their logo, but did not adopt Redwood Tree as a mascot to avoid anger from tree lovers.

[darell1976]

You could go the route of Stanford and just pick a color. The North Dakota Green. Stanford did it as a bit of a slap to those that forced them to drop Indians as their mascot. They figured no one could ever sue them over a color. They picked Cardinal because it added to the joke. To paraphrase, It's not a bird, just a color so let's not have any lawsuits from bird lovers. Then they added the tree to their logo, but did not adopt Redwood Tree as a mascot to avoid anger from tree lovers.

UND had a cheer "get mean big green", problem with that is North Texas is the Mean Green, and the Big Green is Dartmouth (who had an Indian name back in the 70's and changed it). A lot of fans want no nickname but I don't think its marketable, although our team will be known as North "Dakota" gee does that mean we have to change the state too. Stupid NCAA.

[darell1976]

Admirable, but Kelley can kiss his job goodbye.

I emailed Kelley about a week ago and told him he should find a way to get around the law and retire the name. UND needs the Big Sky and although there a few die hard Sioux nickname fans who want the name no matter the cost the risk is too great to fight this. Its over we tried there is no budging the NCAA on their policy time to move on. Hear that Carlson....MOVE ON!!!!

[bincitysioux]

Admirable, but Kelley can kiss his job goodbye.

Sadly, this is probably true. I'll be surprised if Kelley lasts another 12 months. I feel sorry for the guy who seems very intelligent, and also understands the value of college atheltics, something his predecessor did not. And he has done nothing other than what he should, which is look out for the best interests of the ENTIRE University of North Dakota. I wish that the "save the nickname at all costs/hockey-only" crowd could recognize that............

[dakotadan]

Not only the hockey coach but all the people who emailed their representatives asking them to vote for the stupid bill in the first place.

I emailed my legislators and asked them to NOT vote for this bill. This circus is just getting too stupid.

[Poly's Brutality]

You could go the route of Stanford and just pick a color. The North Dakota Green. Stanford did it as a bit of a slap to those that forced them to drop Indians as their mascot. They figured no one could ever sue them over a color. They picked Cardinal because it added to the joke. To paraphrase, It's not a bird, just a color so let's not have any lawsuits from bird lovers. Then they added the tree to their logo, but did not adopt Redwood Tree as a mascot to avoid anger from tree lovers.

The student body I believe voted for the "Robber Barons" but the administration wouldn't go for it. Name still available, not too many will complain if you take it.... despite possible group labeling alleged maybe of, well, "politicians", "bureaucrats", "czars", etc.?

[darell1976]

Sadly, this is probably true. I'll be surprised if Kelley lasts another 12 months. I feel sorry for the guy who seems very intelligent, and also understands the value of college atheltics, something his predecessor did not. And he has done nothing other than what he should, which is look out for the best interests of the ENTIRE University of North Dakota. I wish that the "save the nickname at all costs/hockey-only" crowd could recognize that............

I do feel sorry for him too. This issue is so stressful and so tiring that hopefully it ends this year and UND can just move forward.

[daneboy]

A rose by any other name would smell as sweet...what is in a name? It is not the name that makes the team....it is not a name that makes a man/woman...it seems to me that it takes a pretty small person to get upset over a label. This politically correct bull**** has got to stop... all most libs seem to care about is what they look like, not what they are. Just remember this, an honest man/woman does not have to tell anyone else that they are honest...a hard working man/woman does not have to tell anyone else that they are hard working...a competent person does not have to tell anyone else that they are competent...do you get the picture? You people that are for making a school or any other entity change their name because you are afraid somebody might be offended, well, YOU are the offensive ones...

[GCWaters]

Sadly, this is probably true. I'll be surprised if Kelley lasts another 12 months. I feel sorry for the guy who seems very intelligent, and also understands the value of college atheltics, something his predecessor did not. And he has done nothing other than what he should, which is look out for the best interests of the ENTIRE University of North Dakota. I wish that the "save the nickname at all costs/hockey-only" crowd could recognize that............


I think Kelly's safe...the board likes him, the chancellor likes him, and they both like the way he and Bresciani are working together, after the Chapman/Kupchella fiasco (which I blame both of them for).....

[darell1976]

I think Kelly's safe...the board likes him, the chancellor likes him, and they both like the way he and Bresciani are working together, after the Chapman/Kupchella fiasco (which I blame both of them for).....

I agree, what they should look at is what Kelley has done outside of the nickname issue? Getting enrollment up, bringing in more $$$ for programs, and/or projects around campus. There is more to UND than the nickname.

[HannahO]

A rose by any other name would smell as sweet...what is in a name? It is not the name that makes the team....it is not a name that makes a man/woman...it seems to me that it takes a pretty small person to get upset over a label. This politically correct bull**** has got to stop... all most libs seem to care about is what they look like, not what they are. Just remember this, an honest man/woman does not have to tell anyone else that they are honest...a hard working man/woman does not have to tell anyone else that they are hard working...a competent person does not have to tell anyone else that they are competent...do you get the picture? You people that are for making a school or any other entity change their name because you are afraid somebody might be offended, well, YOU are the offensive ones...

Not to put the brakes on anyone that can so artfully knit together cliches but the first point "what's in a name?" could equally apply to the opposite argument: why keep a name that is causing so many problems?

I'm also troubled by people who say that others shouldn't find something offensive. If you're not in the category that's being stereotyped (whether it's for your appearance, handicap, race, gender, age, etc) then you're probably not in a good position to judge whether it's offensive. In my experience in living and traveling around the world, even when I didn't mean to do or say things that others might find offensive, it could happen all too easily; so why go out of your way especially when it's clear that it is to a portion of that population?

[TheRevSFA]

So have the Sioux Nations of North Dakota said they are absolutely offended by the fact that ND uses their name and honors them by doing so?

[darell1976]

So have the Sioux Nations of North Dakota said they are absolutely offended by the fact that ND uses their name and honors them by doing so?

Standing Rock Sioux Nation (which is mostly in SD) are against it but the Spirit Lake Sioux nation which is 80 miles from UND and is all located within the state voted 67% for UND to KEEP the name. Thats the problem what is offensive to one is not to another. And the Standing Rock tribe is denied a tribe wide vote by the people on the tribal council so we don't know for sure how the whole tribe feels except there were over 1000 petitions signed to take the issue to a tribe wide vote...and was denied. If UND had the same deal as other colleges that kept their name (FSU, Utah, Central Michigan, etc) UND would be in full compliance with the NCAA's policy.

[Blueandwhitefightfight]

Standing Rock Sioux Nation (which is mostly in SD) are against it but the Spirit Lake Sioux nation which is 80 miles from UND and is all located within the state voted 67% for UND to KEEP the name. Thats the problem what is offensive to one is not to another. And the Standing Rock tribe is denied a tribe wide vote by the people on the tribal council so we don't know for sure how the whole tribe feels except there were over 1000 petitions signed to take the issue to a tribe wide vote...and was denied. If UND had the same deal as other colleges that kept their name (FSU, Utah, Central Michigan, etc) UND would be in full compliance with the NCAA's policy.

I think you guys should be the University of North Dakota "Spirit Lakes" and have a large body of holy water as your mascot.

Either that or the General Custer's. :D


Then when the NCAA gets mad, you could offer to switch back to the politically correct one you have now.

[daneboy]

First, a rose by any other name... comes for Shakespeare. The point is that it does not matter what you call a rose, it will still have the attributes of the thing that we CALL a rose. If it was called marshmellow or cowpie or cupie doll, it would still have the scent of what we call a rose.

Second, as far as keeping a name that is causing so many problems is not the issue. The issue is that the NAME is causing so many problems. And, because of political correctness the name will probably be changed. And, would it be safe to assume that you would favor changing the name of anything if enough people felt there was a problem? For instance, if enough people felt the name Native American was offensive, would you favor changing it back to indian ?

Lastly, your troubles with people that say others shouldn't find something offensive seems to suggest that there is some kind of being that has the ability to determine what is or isn't offensive. In the case of USD, some find the name of the team offensive, others do not. Just because some find it offensive, you seem to suggest that there should be a change. But, I-and many others, do not find the name offensive. Which should it be? Who determines the offensiveness of a name?

You go on to suggest that only those that have felt offended have the right to demand a change. You do not know my situation. Maybe I am handicapped, a person of color, old, etc. And then again, maybe I am not...or maybe I am married to a person that fits the descriptions, have children or other family members that have suffered from persecution.

Perhaps I can best explain this by stating that you are stupid! Does this offend you? Does this piss you off? The reality is that you are not stupid and you know it. Does it really matter then, that I called you stupid and, is it worth all of the "problems" that may arise with your anger at me calling you stupid when we all know you aren't? The point is, UND has used the name Fighting Sioux as their team name. Some are offended and some aren't. The games will go on no matter what the team is called. But let me ask, how many schools have named their teams after something they did not honor? Okay, the banana slugs but they are in calif....I guess it all boils down to the political correctness of this....

[darell1976]

Bottom line is that in 2005 the NCAA came out with a new policy that sports teams must not have Native nicknames, and those with those names will be on a Hostile and Abusive list. But the policy got flawed when Florida State came out publically and said you ban us we will sue you. So the NCAA retracked on their policy and said if you can get tribal approval you can keep your name. If the NCAA really cared about their policy and if they really thought it was harmful to Native Americans then they should have stood their ground against Florida State and said "sue us". IMO only North Dakota has stood up to the very flawed NCAA's policy and now everyone can see how hypicritical the NCAA is, and how $$$$ rules.

[The Eagle's Cliff]

If anyone is interested, try reading up on Saul Alinsky. He developed the art and strategy of community organizing and what became in the '60's and '70's modern activism. All the activist groups you can think of use his methods as outlined in Rules for Radicals . While the average Joe and Jane work prioritize their lives with Family, Career, Faith, and Finance at the top, "Radicals" live and breathe political activism. Their biggest victory to date put the Community Organizer in Chief in the White House. Their overall strategy for more than 50 years has been to chip away at the values that allowed America emerge from WWII as a Superpower.

Environmentalism isn't about "Saving the Planet". Title IX isn't about girls achieving in athletics. Same-sex marriage isn't about ensuring legal rights for homosexual couples. These folks are all about destroying corporations, family, religion, and culture. They have enormous power throughout the Educational System from Head Start to Law and Medicine. They permeate our culture with Political "Correctness" in film, television, and music and they are firmly in control of most News organizations.

Is getting rid of the Fighting Sioux nickname responsible for the collapse of freedom in America? Of course not. But, unless you're not paying attention to the world around you, you're witnessing the work of Radicals coming to fruition.

I'm going to cut it short and finish here. Maybe do your own research or we can take it to the political board. Two knowledgeable people could talk for days about these issues. The point I'm trying to make is about freedom. When a law is made or an entity imposes a rule, a little piece of everyone's freedom is taken. Regulating smoking may be agreeable to most people, but as soon as government and others have the authority to do it, the door is open to regulate other personal behavior. Hasn't NYC taken the salt of the table and San Francisco is getting rid of Happy Meals? I always come down on the side of your freedom, even if I disagree with what you're doing, because I want the same right to do what you don't like.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

If anyone is interested, try reading up on Saul Alinsky. He developed the art and strategy of community organizing and what became in the '60's and '70's modern activism. All the activist groups you can think of use his methods as outlined in Rules for Radicals . While the average Joe and Jane work prioritize their lives with Family, Career, Faith, and Finance at the top, "Radicals" live and breathe political activism. Their biggest victory to date put the Community Organizer in Chief in the White House. Their overall strategy for more than 50 years has been to chip away at the values that allowed America emerge from WWII as a Superpower.

Environmentalism isn't about "Saving the Planet". Title IX isn't about girls achieving in athletics. Same-sex marriage isn't about ensuring legal rights for homosexual couples. These folks are all about destroying corporations, family, religion, and culture. They have enormous power throughout the Educational System from Head Start to Law and Medicine. They permeate our culture with Political "Correctness" in film, television, and music and they are firmly in control of most News organizations.

Is getting rid of the Fighting Sioux nickname responsible for the collapse of freedom in America? Of course not. But, unless you're not paying attention to the world around you, you're witnessing the work of Radicals coming to fruition.

I'm going to cut it short and finish here. Maybe do your own research or we can take it to the political board. Two knowledgeable people could talk for days about these issues. The point I'm trying to make is about freedom. When a law is made or an entity imposes a rule, a little piece of everyone's freedom is taken. Regulating smoking may be agreeable to most people, but as soon as government and others have the authority to do it, the door is open to regulate other personal behavior. Hasn't NYC taken the salt of the table and San Francisco is getting rid of Happy Meals? I always come down on the side of your freedom, even if I disagree with what you're doing, because I want the same right to do what you don't like.

Exactly. The problem has now multiplied or doubled because it's not just one going after people's or communities rights...it's both.

The push back against this pussy **** seems to be gathering strength the further we go into it so it is interesting to watch people as the realization that they may not be next but they will soon be on the list.

You are correct though it would make a good political discussion but we may not have the "players" on AGS at this time to have the kind of debate it would should have.

[HannahO]

First, a rose by any other name... comes for Shakespeare. The point is that it does not matter what you call a rose, it will still have the attributes of the thing that we CALL a rose. If it was called marshmellow or cowpie or cupie doll, it would still have the scent of what we call a rose.

Second, as far as keeping a name that is causing so many problems is not the issue. The issue is that the NAME is causing so many problems. And, because of political correctness the name will probably be changed. And, would it be safe to assume that you would favor changing the name of anything if enough people felt there was a problem? For instance, if enough people felt the name Native American was offensive, would you favor changing it back to indian ?

Lastly, your troubles with people that say others shouldn't find something offensive seems to suggest that there is some kind of being that has the ability to determine what is or isn't offensive. In the case of USD, some find the name of the team offensive, others do not. Just because some find it offensive, you seem to suggest that there should be a change. But, I-and many others, do not find the name offensive. Which should it be? Who determines the offensiveness of a name?

You go on to suggest that only those that have felt offended have the right to demand a change. You do not know my situation. Maybe I am handicapped, a person of color, old, etc. And then again, maybe I am not...or maybe I am married to a person that fits the descriptions, have children or other family members that have suffered from persecution.

Perhaps I can best explain this by stating that you are stupid! Does this offend you? Does this piss you off? The reality is that you are not stupid and you know it. Does it really matter then, that I called you stupid and, is it worth all of the "problems" that may arise with your anger at me calling you stupid when we all know you aren't? The point is, UND has used the name Fighting Sioux as their team name. Some are offended and some aren't. The games will go on no matter what the team is called. But let me ask, how many schools have named their teams after something they did not honor? Okay, the banana slugs but they are in calif....I guess it all boils down to the political correctness of this....

Yes, it is a quote that is so commonly used as to have become a cliche ... and it is applicable to the other side of the argument; schools that have changed the name of their motto are still the same school with the same passionate fan base and following.

Second, you are correct, it is not the name that is offensive. It is the school's appropriation or use of the name without consent or approval that is the problem. While you, individually, and the school, as an institution, may believe you are honoring the people whose name you using, it only makes sense that you ask them what they think. That's what makes the NCAA's change in 2005 to allow the tribal consent to use of their name, as did the Seminoles, one of the most logical things they've done recently. Incidentally, a historical review of the use and marks of UND would bring into question how much "honor" was intended, but I'll generously allow that you mean it when you say that you honor them by your use.

I don't know your situation and you don't know mine ... how is that revelant, exactly?

As to your last point, I've read it a couple of times xconfusedx Is the argument that it's OK to call someone something rude, inflamatory, "offensive" and untrue as long as the recipient of the comment knows that it is those things? Are you a lawyer??? xlolx It's the kind of argument you make in court when you know you're losing, you know you're going to have to pay damages, and you're trying to argue that your client didn't really MEAN to say those things and, even if he did he didn't MEAN them the way they sounded, and even if they sounded that way, the recepient of the comments should have known better than to think that they where meant that way ....

[TheBisonator]

If anyone is interested, try reading up on Saul Alinsky. He developed the art and strategy of community organizing and what became in the '60's and '70's modern activism. All the activist groups you can think of use his methods as outlined in Rules for Radicals . While the average Joe and Jane work prioritize their lives with Family, Career, Faith, and Finance at the top, "Radicals" live and breathe political activism. Their biggest victory to date put the Community Organizer in Chief in the White House. Their overall strategy for more than 50 years has been to chip away at the values that allowed America emerge from WWII as a Superpower.

Environmentalism isn't about "Saving the Planet". Title IX isn't about girls achieving in athletics. Same-sex marriage isn't about ensuring legal rights for homosexual couples. These folks are all about destroying corporations, family, religion, and culture. They have enormous power throughout the Educational System from Head Start to Law and Medicine. They permeate our culture with Political "Correctness" in film, television, and music and they are firmly in control of most News organizations.

Is getting rid of the Fighting Sioux nickname responsible for the collapse of freedom in America? Of course not. But, unless you're not paying attention to the world around you, you're witnessing the work of Radicals coming to fruition.

I'm going to cut it short and finish here. Maybe do your own research or we can take it to the political board. Two knowledgeable people could talk for days about these issues. The point I'm trying to make is about freedom. When a law is made or an entity imposes a rule, a little piece of everyone's freedom is taken. Regulating smoking may be agreeable to most people, but as soon as government and others have the authority to do it, the door is open to regulate other personal behavior. Hasn't NYC taken the salt of the table and San Francisco is getting rid of Happy Meals? I always come down on the side of your freedom, even if I disagree with what you're doing, because I want the same right to do what you don't like.

OK Rush Lmbaugh, settle down... Why don't you take a little trip to Wal-Mart, then eat a Big Mac at your local megachurch to relax??

[The Eagle's Cliff]

OK Rush Lmbaugh, settle down... Why don't you take a little trip to Wal-Mart, then eat a Big Mac at your local megachurch to relax??

I think I invited folks to do a little research. I think page 117 sums up the point I was making about Issue Activism not really caring about the Issue.


"An organizer must stir up dissatisfaction and discontent... He must create a mechanism that can drain off the underlying guilt for having accepted the previous situation for so long a time. Out of this mechanism, a new community organization arises....
"The job then is getting the people to move, to act, to participate; in short, to develop and harness the necessary power to effectively conflict with the prevailing patterns and change them. When those prominent in the status quo turn and label you an 'agitator' they are completely correct, for that is, in one word, your function—to agitate to the point of conflict." p.117


It's obvious you don't like what you read, but what part is untrue? Probably without knowing, your response employed Alinsky's Tactics


"Tactics are those conscious deliberate acts by which human beings live with each other and deal with the world around them. ... Here our concern is with the tactic of taking; how the Have-Nots can take power away from the Haves." p.126

Always remember the first rule of power tactics (pps.127-134):

1. "Power is not only what you have, but what the enemy thinks you have."

2. "Never go outside the expertise of your people. When an action or tactic is outside the experience of the people, the result is confusion, fear and retreat.... [and] the collapse of communication.

3. "Whenever possible, go outside the expertise of the enemy. Look for ways to increase insecurity, anxiety and uncertainty. (This happens all the time. Watch how many organizations under attack are blind-sided by seemingly irrelevant arguments that they are then forced to address.)

4. "Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules. You can kill them with this, for they can no more obey their own rules than the Christian church can live up to Christianity."

5. "Ridicule is man's most potent weapon. It is almost impossible to counteract ridicule. Also it infuriates the opposition, which then reacts to your advantage."

6. "A good tactic is one your people enjoy."

7. "A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag. Man can sustain militant interest in any issue for only a limited time...."

8. "Keep the pressure on, with different tactics and actions, and utilize all events of the period for your purpose."

9. "The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself."

10. "The major premise for tactics is the development of operations that will maintain a constant pressure upon the opposition. It is this unceasing pressure that results in the reactions from the opposition that are essential for the success of the campaign."

11. "If you push a negative hard and deep enough, it will break through into its counterside... every positive has its negative."

12. "The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative."

13. Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it. In conflict tactics there are certain rules that [should be regarded] as universalities. One is that the opposition must be singled out as the target and 'frozen.'...
"...any target can always say, 'Why do you center on me when there are others to blame as well?' When your 'freeze the target,' you disregard these [rational but distracting] arguments.... Then, as you zero in and freeze your target and carry out your attack, all the 'others' come out of the woodwork very soon. They become visible by their support of the target...'
"One acts decisively only in the conviction that all the angels are on one side and all the devils on the other." (pps.127-134)

You may now finish your glass of Kool-Aid and disregard what you've readxpeacex

[ursus arctos horribilis]

OK Rush Lmbaugh, settle down... Why don't you take a little trip to Wal-Mart, then eat a Big Mac at your local megachurch to relax??

Strong argument you layed out there Bisonator.

[SDFS]

Second, you are correct, it is not the name that is offensive. It is the school's appropriation or use of the name without consent or approval that is the problem.
...


You do realize that UND received permission from the Stand Rock tribe in the late 1960's. Since then UND has been working with the local tribes adding programs to support Native Americans educational needs.

http://www.und.edu/dept/nativemedia/

Founded in 1990, the University of North Dakota School of Communication Native Media Center has a long history of teaching communication skills to Native Americans. The Native Media Center serves as a source for news, features, and other information about Native peoples within an online newsmagazine, The Red Nation News.

http://ruralhealth.und.edu/projects/nrcnaa/overview.php

Since 1994 the Administration on Aging (AoA), through a cooperative agreement, has funded the National Resource Center on Native American aging. It is located in the Center for Rural Health, at The University of North Dakota, in Grand Forks.

http://arts-sciences.und.edu/indian-studies/

Created in 1977, the University of North Dakota Department of Indian Studies is the only academic unit in the state of North Dakota offering a major in American Indian / Native American Studies.


Here is a link to a radio interview discussing the permission that was received and frustrations that he has had with the tribe reversing the decision.

http://www.redlasso.com/ClipPlayer.aspx?id=f86e7a84-a51f-4670-bb64-a16939ee40b5
....



Incidentally, a historical review of the use and marks of UND would bring into question how much "honor" was intended, but I'll generously allow that you mean it when you say that you honor them by your use.


http://plainsdaily.com/entry/spirit_lake_members_say_und_native_american_center _hostile_to_nickname_supp/

[HannahO]

You do realize that UND received permission from the Stand Rock tribe in the late 1960's. Since then UND has been working with the local tribes adding programs to support Native Americans educational needs.

http://www.und.edu/dept/nativemedia/

Founded in 1990, the University of North Dakota School of Communication Native Media Center has a long history of teaching communication skills to Native Americans. The Native Media Center serves as a source for news, features, and other information about Native peoples within an online newsmagazine, The Red Nation News.

http://ruralhealth.und.edu/projects/nrcnaa/overview.php

Since 1994 the Administration on Aging (AoA), through a cooperative agreement, has funded the National Resource Center on Native American aging. It is located in the Center for Rural Health, at The University of North Dakota, in Grand Forks.

http://arts-sciences.und.edu/indian-studies/

Created in 1977, the University of North Dakota Department of Indian Studies is the only academic unit in the state of North Dakota offering a major in American Indian / Native American Studies.


Here is a link to a radio interview discussing the permission that was received and frustrations that he has had with the tribe reversing the decision.

http://www.redlasso.com/ClipPlayer.aspx?id=f86e7a84-a51f-4670-bb64-a16939ee40b5
....



http://plainsdaily.com/entry/spirit_lake_members_say_und_native_american_center _hostile_to_nickname_supp/

Yep, heard it, seen it and also read the opposing positions - guess we can agree to disagree:

From the moment the current Fighting Sioux logo was unveiled, it met with opposition and outrage. The UND campus newspaper, called Dakota Student, reported that an "impromptu protest" broke out as soon as the Indianhead logo was revealed, with about ten students getting up and walking out of the presentation.
Wambdi Wastewin, assistant director and supervisor for Upward Bound, initiated the protest by reportedly pointing directly at Kupchella and saying, "Shame on you for mocking my people in this way."
The Fighting Sioux issue was not restricted to the UND campus. In February 1999, when Dr. Kendall Baker was still UND President, Clarence W. Skye of the United Sioux Tribes Development Corporation set off a string of letters from several tribal council members after writing a letter to Baker which suggested that the various Sioux tribes did not object to the team name, saying they didn't "really see a problem with the name Sioux being attached to the University of North Dakota."
Within days, letters were written from the different tribes disagreeing with Skye's statement and resolutions were signed to urge UND to change the nickname.
Chairman Charles W. Murphy of the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe wrote, "Mr. Clarence Skye has led some to believe that the Sioux nickname is not opposed by Sioux tribes in South Dakota. Please understand that this is first of all not true, and secondly, Mr. Clarence Skye does not speak for the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe on this matter."
Letters from other tribes echoed this sentiment along with various strongly-worded appeals to respect the Sioux tribes and change the school's mascot.
Former Chairman Andrew Grey Sr. of the Sisseton-Wahpeton Sioux Tribe wrote, "Use of a race of people as a nickname or mascot is totally unacceptable and only leads to the dehumanization of their being, culture, history, and children. Only when one is in this situation can you truly understand the full impact of such demeaning and dehumanizing behavior. What do we tell our beautiful children when they are subjected to such acts either personally or when they have to read or hear about their ancestors as nicknames or mascots and not humans?"
Harold D. Salway, former president of the Oglala Sioux Tribe wrote, "As we enter a new century there isn't any justifiable reason to continue to dehumanize a race of people."
Former President Norman G. Wilson of the Rosebud Sioux Tribe wrote, "I am saddened and deeply concerned about the continued use of the 'Fighting Sioux' as it mimics and shows complete disrespect for the Sioux Tribe. The reason is obvious and clear. This practice of using the 'Fighting Sioux' shows the complete lack of acknowledgement of this indigenous race of people. Our people have a beautiful history, culture, and legacy that should not be subject to such demeaning acts for any reason, at any time. I might add that one act is too many and warrants the immediate elimination of the 'Fighting Sioux' nickname at the University of North Dakota."
Gregg J. Bourland, former chairman of the Cheyenne River Sioux Tribe wrote, "Humanity has come a long way in the last one hundred years. Institutes of higher learning have helped to make that happen. The use of Native Americans (putting us in the same class as animals) is one of the last barriers facing colleges and universities to a real fulfillment of higher learning."
Incidents of derogatory behavior continued-including racially motivated acts of violence, harassment, hate mail, and death threats-but the Fighting Sioux name still stands.
"American Indian students at the University of North Dakota have been protesting the use of Fighting Sioux for 30 years," Annis said. "Thirty years of perpetuating archaic stereotypes of Native people. Thirty years of educational forums. Thirty years of telling us to be honored."
In October 2003, a professor of journalism from the University of Texas at Austin named Robert Jensen spoke at UND on behalf of BRIDGES. His speech was entitled "The Past and Human Dignity: What the 'Fighting Sioux' Tells Us About Whites," and he discussed the historical cultural issues that are imitated within the conflict over the team name.
"Appeals to the dominant white society to abolish the Fighting Sioux nickname and logo typically are framed in terms of respect for the dignity and humanity of indigenous people," Jensen said. "That is the appropriate way to address the question, but it has failed-at least in North Dakota-to persuade most white folks."
Jensen believes there is a simple subconscious motivation behind the mainstream's objection to changing the name of the Fighting Sioux.
"A power dynamic is at the core of white resistance to the simple act of dropping nicknames such as Fighting Sioux," he said. "Indians don't get to tell white people what to do. Why not? Polite white people won't say it in public, but this is what I think many white people think: 'Whites won and Indians lost. It's our country now. Maybe the way we took it was wrong, but we took it. So get used to it. You don't get to tell us what to do.'"
He believes this power dynamic is responsible for the reluctance to let the American Indian protestors win the conflict over the nickname.
"In this case, the argument for white people giving Indians that power is intensified by the magnitude of evil perpetrated by whites on Indians," he said. "To acknowledge all that is to acknowledge that the American nation is based on genocide, on a crime against humanity. The land of the free and the home of the brave, the nation that was born as the vehicle for a new freedom, rests on the denial not only of freedom, but of life itself, to a whole group of people."
Jensen compared the current mascot situation in America to a hypothetical world in which Nazi Germany would have won World War II and began using the "Fighting Jews" as a team name. He then spoke on the common view that the use of the nickname is perpetuated based on tradition.
"Can tradition, the common argument for keeping the Fighting Sioux, trump other considerations?" he said. "Indeed, tradition makes some people (mostly whites) feel good. Does that value to some outweigh the injury to others? Many traditions have fallen by the wayside over time when it became clear that the tradition imposed a cost on some other person or group."
Jensen believes the decision regarding the end of the Fighting Sioux should be the responsibility of American Indian people only.
"We cannot steal the dignity and humanity of indigenous people," he said. "We can steal their resources, disrespect them, insult them, ignore them, and continue to repress their legitimate aspirations. We can try to distort their own sense of themselves, but in the end we can't take their humanity from them."
But despite the 30 years of outspoken protest, to date the university is still known by its unpopular nickname-and people are still fighting it.
As far as the Fighting Sioux supporters' claim that the nickname is meant to honor the tribes, Sage said, "The school is not honoring the tribal resolutions, so where is the honor?"

[darell1976]

Yep, heard it, seen it and also read the opposing positions - guess we can agree to disagree:

From the moment the current Fighting Sioux logo was unveiled, it met with opposition and outrage. The UND campus newspaper, called Dakota Student, reported that an "impromptu protest" broke out as soon as the Indianhead logo was revealed, with about ten students getting up and walking out of the presentation.
Wambdi Wastewin, assistant director and supervisor for Upward Bound, initiated the protest by reportedly pointing directly at Kupchella and saying, "Shame on you for mocking my people in this way."
The Fighting Sioux issue was not restricted to the UND campus. In February 1999, when Dr. Kendall Baker was still UND President, Clarence W. Skye of the United Sioux Tribes Development Corporation set off a string of letters from several tribal council members after writing a letter to Baker which suggested that the various Sioux tribes did not object to the team name, saying they didn't "really see a problem with the name Sioux being attached to the University of North Dakota."
Within days, letters were written from the different tribes disagreeing with Skye's statement and resolutions were signed to urge UND to change the nickname.
Chairman Charles W. Murphy of the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe wrote, "Mr. Clarence Skye has led some to believe that the Sioux nickname is not opposed by Sioux tribes in South Dakota. Please understand that this is first of all not true, and secondly, Mr. Clarence Skye does not speak for the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe on this matter."
Letters from other tribes echoed this sentiment along with various strongly-worded appeals to respect the Sioux tribes and change the school's mascot.
Former Chairman Andrew Grey Sr. of the Sisseton-Wahpeton Sioux Tribe wrote, "Use of a race of people as a nickname or mascot is totally unacceptable and only leads to the dehumanization of their being, culture, history, and children. Only when one is in this situation can you truly understand the full impact of such demeaning and dehumanizing behavior. What do we tell our beautiful children when they are subjected to such acts either personally or when they have to read or hear about their ancestors as nicknames or mascots and not humans?"
Harold D. Salway, former president of the Oglala Sioux Tribe wrote, "As we enter a new century there isn't any justifiable reason to continue to dehumanize a race of people."
Former President Norman G. Wilson of the Rosebud Sioux Tribe wrote, "I am saddened and deeply concerned about the continued use of the 'Fighting Sioux' as it mimics and shows complete disrespect for the Sioux Tribe. The reason is obvious and clear. This practice of using the 'Fighting Sioux' shows the complete lack of acknowledgement of this indigenous race of people. Our people have a beautiful history, culture, and legacy that should not be subject to such demeaning acts for any reason, at any time. I might add that one act is too many and warrants the immediate elimination of the 'Fighting Sioux' nickname at the University of North Dakota."
Gregg J. Bourland, former chairman of the Cheyenne River Sioux Tribe wrote, "Humanity has come a long way in the last one hundred years. Institutes of higher learning have helped to make that happen. The use of Native Americans (putting us in the same class as animals) is one of the last barriers facing colleges and universities to a real fulfillment of higher learning."
Incidents of derogatory behavior continued-including racially motivated acts of violence, harassment, hate mail, and death threats-but the Fighting Sioux name still stands.
"American Indian students at the University of North Dakota have been protesting the use of Fighting Sioux for 30 years," Annis said. "Thirty years of perpetuating archaic stereotypes of Native people. Thirty years of educational forums. Thirty years of telling us to be honored."In October 2003, a professor of journalism from the University of Texas at Austin named Robert Jensen spoke at UND on behalf of BRIDGES. His speech was entitled "The Past and Human Dignity: What the 'Fighting Sioux' Tells Us About Whites," and he discussed the historical cultural issues that are imitated within the conflict over the team name.
"Appeals to the dominant white society to abolish the Fighting Sioux nickname and logo typically are framed in terms of respect for the dignity and humanity of indigenous people," Jensen said. "That is the appropriate way to address the question, but it has failed-at least in North Dakota-to persuade most white folks."
Jensen believes there is a simple subconscious motivation behind the mainstream's objection to changing the name of the Fighting Sioux.
"A power dynamic is at the core of white resistance to the simple act of dropping nicknames such as Fighting Sioux," he said. "Indians don't get to tell white people what to do. Why not? Polite white people won't say it in public, but this is what I think many white people think: 'Whites won and Indians lost. It's our country now. Maybe the way we took it was wrong, but we took it. So get used to it. You don't get to tell us what to do.'"
He believes this power dynamic is responsible for the reluctance to let the American Indian protestors win the conflict over the nickname.
"In this case, the argument for white people giving Indians that power is intensified by the magnitude of evil perpetrated by whites on Indians," he said. "To acknowledge all that is to acknowledge that the American nation is based on genocide, on a crime against humanity. The land of the free and the home of the brave, the nation that was born as the vehicle for a new freedom, rests on the denial not only of freedom, but of life itself, to a whole group of people."
Jensen compared the current mascot situation in America to a hypothetical world in which Nazi Germany would have won World War II and began using the "Fighting Jews" as a team name. He then spoke on the common view that the use of the nickname is perpetuated based on tradition.
"Can tradition, the common argument for keeping the Fighting Sioux, trump other considerations?" he said. "Indeed, tradition makes some people (mostly whites) feel good. Does that value to some outweigh the injury to others? Many traditions have fallen by the wayside over time when it became clear that the tradition imposed a cost on some other person or group."
Jensen believes the decision regarding the end of the Fighting Sioux should be the responsibility of American Indian people only.
"We cannot steal the dignity and humanity of indigenous people," he said. "We can steal their resources, disrespect them, insult them, ignore them, and continue to repress their legitimate aspirations. We can try to distort their own sense of themselves, but in the end we can't take their humanity from them."
But despite the 30 years of outspoken protest, to date the university is still known by its unpopular nickname-and people are still fighting it.
As far as the Fighting Sioux supporters' claim that the nickname is meant to honor the tribes, Sage said, "The school is not honoring the tribal resolutions, so where is the honor?"

Lets see here UND has been the Fighting Sioux since the 1930's and yet they have been protesting the last 30 years?? What happened in the 1930's, 40's, 50's, and 60's? No protests? No walkouts? This is one Native American opinion on the name however there are also other Native Americans on campus that are proud of the name and support it. Thats the thing what is fine for one person is offensive to another. You telling me there is not a NA at Florida State that is against the nickname?? Or a NA at Utah that is against the Utes name? UND is reaching out to the NA community by offering all these programs that is NOT available at NDSU. Also if the name is so bad why are they going to the school? Also there are schools on the Reservations with similar nicknames but to the protesters that is okay??? Double Standards IMO.

[Gil Dobie]

Lets see here UND has been the Fighting Sioux since the 1930's and yet they have been protesting the last 30 years?? What happened in the 1930's, 40's, 50's, and 60's?

AIM & Wounded Knee

[NDB]

UND is reaching out to the NA community by offering all these programs that is NOT available at NDSU.

Any school would be happy to provide those programs with THE FEDERAL MONEY UND receives to provide them.

[darell1976]

AIM & Wounded Knee

So were they against the pipe ceremony of 1969??

[darell1976]

Any school would be happy to provide those programs with THE FEDERAL MONEY UND receives to provide them.

Except NDSU doesn't have a medical school.

[SDFS]

Any school would be happy to provide those programs with THE FEDERAL MONEY UND receives to provide them.

You are correct and I do apologize for the confusion. I just assumed most readers understood that UND as in the University of North Dakota is a publicly financed school receiving both state and federal (Public/Tax) dollars. Those dollars are then used to provide research and educational opportunities. I am sure that the research money goes through a vetting process and many schools compete for those dollars. UND works with numerous states (South Dakota, Minnesota, Montana, Idaho and Wyoming) to provide educational opportunities for Native American students in the region. Yes, I did say Minnesota which is kind of funny because... I hope you get it..

[NDB]

xbangxxbangxxbangxxbangxxbangxxbangxxbangxxbangxxb angxxbangx

and do you think NDSU would have a problem running a medical school if it got government money to do that?

[NDB]

YI am sure that the research money goes through a vetting process and many schools compete for those dollars.

Then you are wrong. Many of UND's federally funded native american programs are the results of earmarks including INMED.

[darell1976]

xbangxxbangxxbangxxbangxxbangxxbangxxbangxxbangxxb angxxbangx

and do you think NDSU would have a problem running a medical school if it got government money to do that?

I am just saying if UND is so horrible for NA why don't they petition NDSU to start up more Indian programs. UND as a med school doesn't have to have Indian programs connected with it, but choose to.

[SDFS]

Then you are wrong. Many of UND's federally funded native american programs are the results of earmarks including INMED.

Thanks for tip.. just one thing is kind of strange... if the money can go to any medical school because it is not a big deal. I wonder why the Native American community would want the money to go North Dakota and UND. North Dakota has a fairly small Native American population compared to other states.

California 443,719
Arizona 315,727
Oklahoma 291,390
New Mexico 192,235
Texas 184,649
North Carolina 115,635
Washington 112,965
New York 111,337
Alaska 104,990
Florida 91,412
South Dakota 68,000
Minnesota 64,503
Montana 62,303
Michigan 62,094
Colorado 60,375
Wisconsin 55,844
Oregon 54,405
Illinois 45,128
Nevada 39,039
Utah 38,102
North Dakota 35,666
Georgia 35,528

[NDB]

The money is earmarked by North Dakota's congressional delegation.

The Native American community (WTF is that by the way?) don't have a say in it.

It's a function of history and continued lobbying by UND.

[SDFS]

The money is earmarked by North Dakota's congressional delegation.

The Native American community (WTF is that by the way?) don't have a say in it.

It's a function of history and continued lobbying by UND.

I guess "special interest group/lobby" would have been a better choice of words. Again, I would think that these groups/lobby would have a strong influence on the allocation of federal dollars.

[darell1976]

http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/208152/


The Herald also obtained the emails, one of which indicates that Kelley knew about a letter coming from the Big Sky warning that the nickname issue could “destroy” Division I athletics at UND.

Through a spokesman, Kelley denied again Tuesday that he sought the Big Sky statement.

Carlson, the House majority leader and author of a new state law requiring UND to continue using the Fighting Sioux name and logo in defiance of NCAA policy and scheduled sanctions, has raised questions about Kelley’s role in the controversy.

Kelley vs Carlson xslapfightx

[Twentysix]

Just close UND already and get it over with. NDSU will use the money better anyways :P

[darell1976]

Just close UND already and get it over with. NDSU will use the money better anyways :P

Lets close the school that teaches Medicine, Law, Aerospace, and most Native Americans in this state....better idea let's close NDSU. I mean do you really need a degree in harvesting crops and milking cows. MOOOOOOOO!!!xsmiley_wix

[Gil Dobie]

Lets close the school that teaches Medicine, Law, Aerospace, and most Native Americans in this state....better idea let's close NDSU. I mean do you really need a degree in harvesting crops and milking cows. MOOOOOOOO!!!xsmiley_wix

You gotta problem with MILK ;)

[darell1976]

You gotta problem with MILK ;)

Nope. xthumbsupx

[superman7515]

http://www.egmcartech.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/wallpaper_danica_1280_main.jpg

[darell1976]

http://www.egmcartech.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/wallpaper_danica_1280_main.jpg

Now thats my kind of milk!!

[NDB]

I guess "special interest group/lobby" would have been a better choice of words. Again, I would think that these groups/lobby would have a strong influence on the allocation of federal dollars.

And again you'd be wrong.

[NDB]

Lets close the school that teaches Medicine, Law, Aerospace, and most Native Americans in this state....better idea let's close NDSU. I mean do you really need a degree in harvesting crops and milking cows. MOOOOOOOO!!!xsmiley_wix

Yes, because these things could only be taught at UND...

[SDFS]

And again you'd be wrong.
I can appreciate your attention to detail. But, I must admit that I find discussing earmarks kind of boring. I did find a nice website that shows that the INMED 2010 request is in a "Requested" status and in the future it appears that it will be in a "In Legislation" status prior to be "Passed" or "Declined". Past that I gladly let the experts hash out the details.

http://www.washingtonwatch.com/bills/show/ED_615.html
Indians into Medicine program
$750,000

This earmark request is for the 2010 fiscal year.

Rep. Earl Pomeroy (ND-at large) requests $750,000 for:
University of North Dakota
501 North Columbia Road
Grand Forks, ND 58202

I did notice one other item that was interesting. It does appear the INMED programs receive money from sources other than the federal government. I have noticed examples of giving from insurance companies, foundations and individuals - http://www.whiteearth.com/data/upfiles/files/Sept32008.pdf

[Tribal]

It's worthless to fight the NCAA on this. Huge waste of money. I'm one of the few W&M "Tribe" fans who didn't cry when the NCAA yanked our feathers. The NCAA is a legalized mafia who does anything to make money and push the PC agenda. Just compare their treatment of BCS programs to the lowly FCS programs. Totally different. In the words of Jewels from Pulp Fiction, "Ain't no ballpark neither."

[darell1976]

It's worthless to fight the NCAA on this. Huge waste of money. I'm one of the few W&M "Tribe" fans who didn't cry when the NCAA yanked our feathers. The NCAA is a legalized mafia who does anything to make money and push the PC agenda. Just compare their treatment of BCS programs to the lowly FCS programs. Totally different. In the words of Jewels from Pulp Fiction, "Ain't no ballpark neither."

We tried once and had a stalemate in court and reached an agreement. UND agrees to get both tribal approvals in 3 years and the NCAA agreed to take UND off of the H&A list. Now it seems some people want to sue the NCAA on the same thing again. It is worthless and pointless. I am glad that UND President Robert Kelley said retire the name. What is so great for a name if you don't have an athletic department.

[darell1976]

Other people now stating their opinion on this issue:
http://plainsdaily.com/entry/ed-schafer-time-for-fighting-sioux-nickname-to-go/


A UND alumnus himself, former Governor and US Ag Secretary Ed Schafer has joined the growing ranks of North Dakotans saying today on the Scott Hennen show that the time has come to put an end to the fight to keep UND’s Fighting Sioux nickname and logo

“I’ve just come to the conclusion that it’s over,” said Schafer. “As much as I would like to keep the name; it’s not going to happen. We’ve spent too much time, resources and effort to fight it. Let’s get it over with, make the transition and move on. I don’t particularly like that, but that’s where it’s at.”

That statement is where I and a lot of Sioux fans are at. Al Carlson aren't you listening??