Bucknell a #9

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Bucknell got a real tough draw in the first round. Arkansas is a real athletic team led by first team SEC Ronnie Brewer. Bucknell plays great defense and solid offense but lacks the ability to drive and create and stop teams penetration. Look for 6'7 Gaurd Ronnie Brewer to dice through the Bison's defense and lead the Hogs to a first round win.

[colgate13]

Highest ever PL seed, right?

[D1B]

Bucknell is a very good team. I will probably pick them over Arkansas. Gongrats to Bucknell.

[ngineer]

Don't see the Bison doing it again this year. They won't sneak up on anyone, let alone Arkansas, after what happened last year. BU plays good defense, but they don't have a deep bench. I'll pick the Razorbacks by about 12.

[DuckDuckGriz]

I picked Bucknell :nod:

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

The problem with Bucknell is teams know about them now. Like Ngineer said they can't sneek up on anyone anymore, like they did last year. Another thing is Kansas was reeling by the time the tourney started last year. I think they came in losing 4 of 6 and had sleptwalked through much of last season despite being #1 for a few weeks. Bucknell came in not intimidated and when they fought back Kansas did what they did most of the season and laid down. Arkansas is comming in peaking at the right time, they're arguably playing the second best ball with Florida and LSU right now in the SEC. I'm actually suprised by their #8 seed as i thought they might be a 6-7. This is a very tough matchup for Bucknell on a number of levels. Bucknell would have been better off with a team like Wisconsin or Kentucky, not overly athletic and playing "ehh" type of ball right now.

[Pard4Life]

Good points. In a way, that is the problem about being an awesome mid-major, respectable RPI and such... you get a less favorable match-up in the tourney. You end up being a 7,8,9,10 team, and have to play a 2 or 1 the next round. And, you play an equally good, upstart mid-ranked team. As a 9, Bucknell could have been sent to play GW... a very good team.

Sadly, I don't know if the Bison can do it again. Arkansas is hot, they are fast, and have won much lately. Frankly, I think the Hogs can give Memphis a run.

Speaking of Memphis, I think people would be treating that team with more respect if they were a bit older and more experienced. If you put players on that team with some tourney experience, they'd be picked by some to win it all. I don't buy the weak conference arguement... look what UNLV did, and Louisville last year. Everyone rode Louisville for being in CUSA, and they went to the F4.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Another team i feel bad for is Penn. When will the committee reward the Quakers for their accomplishment?. Penn is a very capable basketball team this year and is a very very dangerous 15. Texas though is one of the most talented teams in the country and it's hard to see them losing to Dunphy's bunch. However, consider some of these scores; Duke 79 Penn 59 at Cameron, if anyone remembers this game Penn went toe to toe with the Dookies for 35 minutes until they tired late. Six days later they lost to Villanova 62-55 in a game that wasn't decided until the final minutes. They also lost to St. Joe's and Temple by a combined 6 points and beat fellow big 5 member La Salle. The Explores had one of their best season in probably 10 years this year. Penn finished the season 20-8 and should have been atleast a 14 and possibly a 13. Just given a little heads up on the Quakers if someone is looking for a sentimental, big time upset, think Hampton-Iowa State.

Another possible 15 over a 2 is Winthrop beating Tennessee. The Eagles beat Marquette this year and had close losses to Alabama and Memphis. The key for a big time upset is a low seeded team that has shown the abilitly to compete and perhaps beat a top 40 team. Also the team they are playing is usually stumbling a little down the stretch, Tenn or has shown lapses in play during the season, Texas. Vermont and Bucknell last year had shown during the year they could compete with Top 40 teams and that helped pave the way for their upsets in the tourney.

[Pard4Life]

Another team i feel bad for is Penn. When will the committee reward the Quakers for their accomplishment?. Penn is a very capable basketball team this year and is a very very dangerous 15. Texas though is one of the most talented teams in the country and it's hard to see them losing to Dunphy's bunch. However, consider some of these scores; Duke 79 Penn 59 at Cameron, if anyone remembers this game Penn went toe to toe with the Dookies for 35 minutes until they tired late. Six days later they lost to Villanova 62-55 in a game that wasn't decided until the final minutes. They also lost to St. Joe's and Temple by a combined 6 points and beat fellow big 5 member La Salle. The Explores had one of their best season in probably 10 years this year. Penn finished the season 20-8 and should have been atleast a 14 and possibly a 13. Just given a little heads up on the Quakers if someone is looking for a sentimental, big time upset, think Hampton-Iowa State.

Another possible 15 over a 2 is Winthrop beating Tennessee. The Eagles beat Marquette this year and had close losses to Alabama and Memphis. The key for a big time upset is a low seeded team that has shown the abilitly to compete and perhaps beat a top 40 team. Also the team they are playing is usually stumbling a little down the stretch, Tenn or has shown lapses in play during the season, Texas. Vermont and Bucknell last year had shown during the year they could compete with Top 40 teams and that helped pave the way for their upsets in the tourney.

I like Penn but Texas is going to blow them out of the water. Definetely, Winthrop over Tennessee is a legitamite upset pick.. in fact it looks very attractive to pick it and it can be done. I thought Winthrop would be 14/13. But, playing tourney strategy, probably not wise to pick them.. everyone will pick Tennessee and if Winthrop losses, everyone gains a point and you don't.

South Alabama over Florida?? Gators have stumbled right??

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I like Penn but Texas is going to blow them out of the water. Definetely, Winthrop over Tennessee is a legitamite upset pick.. in fact it looks very attractive to pick it and it can be done. I thought Winthrop would be 14/13. But, playing tourney strategy, probably not wise to pick them.. everyone will pick Tennessee and if Winthrop losses, everyone gains a point and you don't.

South Alabama over Florida?? Gators have stumbled right??

If Texas comes with their A+ game they won't have any trouble, however if they bring their B+ game things could get atleast interesting. Not sure about South Alabama. Their only notetable win is over NIT bound Houston. They have a pair of 18 point losses to Purdue and Tennessee and really played no other OOC teams of note. Florida struggled being a 3 last year against Ohio when they were comming off an SEC tourney win so history could repeat itself. However, 4 out Florida's 6 losses came outside the state the of Florida, with the Gators playing the 1st and 2nd round in Jacksonville they have the chance to have a significant homecourt advantage. Also this is probably the best "team" Donnovan's had in 4 or 5 years. In the past he a lot of talented players who didn't mesh well. This years team seems to be different. So South Alabama over Florida is not one i'd pick.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

These are some of the 13 or higher seeded teams that i think could make it atleast interesting.

Wintrop vs. Tennessee
Iona vs. LSU- probably a little bigger then a stretch but Iona did play very well in Lexington against Kentucky and had "decent" wins over Fresono State and Iowa State.
Bradley vs. Kansas- not likely since Kansas should be focused after last year and is comming off the momentum of a Big 12 title. Bradley snuck in as an at-large but didn't beat or play anyone in their OOC schedule. Their resume was strickly built on the MVC.
Xavier vs. Gonzaga- I love the 'Zags and have since i picked them over Stanford in '99. But Xavier is a talented team and i think they're being undervalued as a #14 seed. The 'Zags have struggled against mid-majors in their own conference and will face a pretty good one in the Musketeers. I think Gonzaga's motivation and Adam Morrison will be enough though to avoid what could be a disasterous black eye from a national perspective should they lose.

That's really all i see, plus Penn for *****s and giggles. BC, Iowa, UNC, Florida, Illinois and everyone else i didn't mention seem to have enough talent or leadership to avoid falling into a trap game situation.

[Tod]

These are some of the 13 or higher seeded teams that i think could make it atleast interesting.

Wintrop vs. Tennessee
Iona vs. LSU- probably a little bigger then a stretch but Iona did play very well in Lexington against Kentucky and had "decent" wins over Fresono State and Iowa State.
Bradley vs. Kansas- not likely since Kansas should be focused after last year and is comming off the momentum of a Big 12 title. Bradley snuck in as an at-large but didn't beat or play anyone in their OOC schedule. Their resume was strickly built on the MVC.
Xavier vs. Gonzaga- I love the 'Zags and have since i picked them over Stanford in '99. But Xavier is a talented team and i think they're being undervalued as a #14 seed. The 'Zags have struggled against mid-majors in their own conference and will face a pretty good one in the Musketeers. I think Gonzaga's motivation and Adam Morrison will be enough though to avoid what could be a disasterous black eye from a national perspective should they lose.

That's really all i see, plus Penn for *****s and giggles. BC, Iowa, UNC, Florida, Illinois and everyone else i didn't mention seem to have enough talent or leadership to avoid falling into a trap game situation.

Montana has no chance over Nevada? :confused:

Or would that just not be interesting to you?

[DuckDuckGriz]

Montana has no chance over Nevada? :confused:

Or would that just not be interesting to you?


Easy Tod -- I am sure he just overlooked it....Right, GLT? :smiley_wi

[dbackjon]

Montana has no chance over Nevada? :confused:

Or would that just not be interesting to you?

Tod - he said 13 seeds or higher - Montana is a 12 seed!

[AppGuy04]

I picked Bucknell :nod:

do that at your own peril

[Marcus Garvey]

I like Penn but Texas is going to blow them out of the water. Definetely, Winthrop over Tennessee is a legitamite upset pick.. in fact it looks very attractive to pick it and it can be done. I thought Winthrop would be 14/13. But, playing tourney strategy, probably not wise to pick them.. everyone will pick Tennessee and if Winthrop losses, everyone gains a point and you don't.

South Alabama over Florida?? Gators have stumbled right??


Winthrop looked very very good against Gonzaga last year in their 1st round loss. Tennessee is this year's version of Kansas, so I like that upset. In past years, when Penn had a team good enough to win a 1st round game, they could never pull it off. This year's team is not as good and will get spanked.

As for Bucknell, just run a full-court press defense. They have trouble adjusting to it (or at least did last year, anyone know about this team?). Against a deeper, more athletic team, their best chance is for Pat Flannery to outcoach Stan Heath. I'm not liking those odds.

[Tod]

Tod - he said 13 seeds or higher - Montana is a 12 seed!

I should have read it more closely. I consider 12 a higher seed than a 13. But if paid closer attention, I would have seen it. :o :o

[Pard4Life]

Winthrop looked very very good against Gonzaga last year in their 1st round loss. Tennessee is this year's version of Kansas, so I like that upset. In past years, when Penn had a team good enough to win a 1st round game, they could never pull it off. This year's team is not as good and will get spanked.

As for Bucknell, just run a full-court press defense. They have trouble adjusting to it (or at least did last year, anyone know about this team?). Against a deeper, more athletic team, their best chance is for Pat Flannery to outcoach Stan Heath. I'm not liking those odds.

My local paper, the Star-Ledger, dubbed Flannery the best coach in that regional. xlolx I'm sure nearly all of you PLers will agree that is a joke indeed. He is not even the best in his own LEAGUE. I'd rank O'Hanlon and Willard, and heck, even Taylor in the top 3 before Flannery. I could understand the reporter's angle though, he is from Holy Cross.

And as for that Greensboro pod, I'm taking Seton Hall over Winthrop! Even if Tennessee wins, the Hall is going to the sweet 16.

[colgate13]

My local paper, the Star-Ledger, dubbed Flannery the best coach in that regional. xlolx I'm sure nearly all of you PLers will agree that is a joke indeed. He is not even the best in his own LEAGUE. I'd rank O'Hanlon and Willard, and heck, even Taylor in the top 3 before Flannery.

Have you been drinking that Holy Cross kool-aid P4L? By what measure are we ranking 'best coaches'? Flannery has guided the Bison to the best season in PL history, the first ever AP ranking, first ever tournament win, highest tournament seeding, upsets over big programs, etc.

What has any other coach done in the PL that is better than that? :confused:

[Marcus Garvey]

Have you been drinking that Holy Cross kool-aid P4L? By what measure are we ranking 'best coaches'? Flannery has guided the Bison to the best season in PL history, the first ever AP ranking, first ever tournament win, highest tournament seeding, upsets over big programs, etc.

What has any other coach done in the PL that is better than that? :confused:

You don't have to be the best coach to accomplish those tasks, just a better recruiter.

[colgate13]

You don't have to be the best coach to accomplish those tasks, just a better recruiter.

I would consider recruiting to be a significant part of coaching ability.

I'm not ignorant enough to think results always equals the best coach, but to dismiss what is going on at BU out of hand like that and not give credit where credit is due is wrong IMO.

Bottom line: Flannery is coaching teams that are getting it done. Everything else is just conjecture.

[Marcus Garvey]

I would consider recruiting to be a significant part of coaching ability.


Actually, that'd make a great thread topic. I consider recruiting as part of the job, but a seperate task from coaching.

[Pard4Life]

Have you been drinking that Holy Cross kool-aid P4L? By what measure are we ranking 'best coaches'? Flannery has guided the Bison to the best season in PL history, the first ever AP ranking, first ever tournament win, highest tournament seeding, upsets over big programs, etc.

What has any other coach done in the PL that is better than that? :confused:

He had scholarships, adminstrative committment, and the lack of Lafayette scholarships to land our woulda-been players. :rolleyes:

Before Bucknell schollies came along, Lafayette wiped the floor with Bucknell... 9-6 in favor of O'Hanlon up until the 2002-03 season. Most of those losses were early in his tenure.. he started 1-4. We have beeatin Bucknell once since 2003... and during that time, scholarships were introduced to the Bison. That's how they got players like McNaughton.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I see this match a bit differently. I'm not sure who I like yet, but the matchup is fascinating.

Sure Arkansas is playing well, but they don't have a terrific inside presence. I think folks here are making a lot of assumptions that MacNaughton is going to be held in check by the young center of Arkansas, and I don't think that's happening. I'd look for surprising effeciency inside by Bucknell.

Bucknell's big weakness IMO is breaking the press, and Arkansas brings it in a big way is the big problem. That's up the Flannery to figure out how to break it and score. If he can and the players can get it done, its going to be reeeaalllyy interesting.

This is a legitmate 8/9. Look for a close game, and I honestly feel like it will come down to officiating. I just get a feeling that Flannery won't be getting the same officiating crew that shows up at Sojka stuffed with Bucknell dollar bills out the back pocket, and those moving screens on the perimeter are going to be called more often. Those calls -- or non-calls -- could make the difference.

[Pard4Life]

The Bison are also prone to turnovers, so do keep an eye out for that.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I just think this is a bad matchup for the Bison. They would have been better off playing Kentucky, Arizona or Wiscosin. None of those teams can run 5 athletes on the court at one time. I've seen Arkansas play probably 5 or 6 times and i was impressed. They didn't always play with consistency or urgency but when they plut it together they looked like a Top 25-20 team. As long as Arkansas can stay out of foul trouble and avoid turning the ball over a significant amount of times, Bucknell is gonna have to be very efficient on offense to pull the upset because i think Arkanas will put 70 or so points on the board. We'll see soon enough though.

[Pard4Life]

I just think this is a bad matchup for the Bison. They would have been better off playing Kentucky, Arizona or Wiscosin. None of those teams can run 5 athletes on the court at one time. I've seen Arkansas play probably 5 or 6 times and i was impressed. They didn't always play with consistency or urgency but when they plut it together they looked like a Top 25-20 team. As long as Arkansas can stay out of foul trouble and avoid turning the ball over a significant amount of times, Bucknell is gonna have to be very efficient on offense to pull the upset because i think Arkanas will put 70 or so points on the board. We'll see soon enough though.

I agree. It is even tempting to pick the Hogs over Memphis in round 2. But, contrary to what the "experts" say, Memphis is not actually bad. No, I'm not alluding to 30 wins, but early in the season they beat some big teams. Gonzaga by 9, lost AT duke by 3, UCLA by 8, alabama by 11, wisconsin milwaukee by 27, cinncy by 10, tennesse by 10 (before they tanked) winthrop by 10. Memphis might be better than they think. But I still think Pitt will beat them, and it's UCLA to the F4.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I agree. It is even tempting to pick the Hogs over Memphis in round 2. But, contrary to what the "experts" say, Memphis is not actually bad. No, I'm not alluding to 30 wins, but early in the season they beat some big teams. Gonzaga by 9, lost AT duke by 3, UCLA by 8, alabama by 11, wisconsin milwaukee by 27, cinncy by 10, tennesse by 10 (before they tanked) winthrop by 10. Memphis might be better than they think. But I still think Pitt will beat them, and it's UCLA to the F4.

Memphis is really good but they're also inexperienced. I think they start 1 sr., Carney and the rest that play are either Sophs or frosh. I think ultimately lack of experience will cost the tigers, i actually have Arkansas beating them. However, if Carney can be enough of a leader on the court and Calipari is himself, they have enough pieces in place to make a run at Indy. Mempis is one of the harderst to predict #1's in a while. There's no real chink in their armour other then they play mostly underclassmen.

[Marcus Garvey]

it's UCLA to the F4.

No F'ing Way! The Pac-10 is so weak this year, even it's best team is suspect. I have every Pac-10 team gone by the 2nd round in my bracket!

[ngineer]

You don't have to be the best coach to accomplish those tasks, just a better recruiter.

Bingo. No question Flannery has recruited some excellent players. But I have not been impressed by his coaching--nor his crybaby, whining antics. I CANNOT STAND WHINERS! I never allowed it from my kids, and I won't give kudos to an adult who acts like a juvenile.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I just think this is a bad matchup for the Bison. They would have been better off playing Kentucky, Arizona or Wiscosin. None of those teams can run 5 athletes on the court at one time. I've seen Arkansas play probably 5 or 6 times and i was impressed. They didn't always play with consistency or urgency but when they plut it together they looked like a Top 25-20 team. As long as Arkansas can stay out of foul trouble and avoid turning the ball over a significant amount of times, Bucknell is gonna have to be very efficient on offense to pull the upset because i think Arkanas will put 70 or so points on the board. We'll see soon enough though.

Looking like a good matchup so far. 8 mins to play, Bucknell 46, Arkansas 39.

Glad I picked Bucknell :)

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Here comes the 'Hogs.....
53-49 Bison with a little over 2 to play....

[colgate13]

BU up by 4 with 8 sec!

[colgate13]

BUCKNELL WINS!

59-55!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Whoo!!!!!!

Who should I root for, Memphis or Oral Roberts?

:nod: :nod: :nod:

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

The games tempo was controlled by Bucknell. Going in you knew they wanted a game in the 50 or 60's and that's how they played out. Bettencourt was great and noone really stepped up for the Hogs like i thought they would. After goin 13-3 yesterday i'm off to a 1-3 start today, Ohio State being my only right pick. Thankfully none of the teams i picked that lost i had winning in the 2nd round.

[Go...gate]

Great job by Bucknell!!!!

[colgate13]

Right now I'm 15-5 in my family/friends pool. Believe it or not, I picked against Bucknell. I didn't think they could do it two years in a row.

I don't mind though! Go Patriot League! Now, some of that Bison magic just needs to rub off on my Raiders tonight in Albany vs. the hated Big Red in the ECACHL semis!

Back to Bucknell though: you have to think, of all the #1s they could have been matched up with as a #9, Memphis is certainly beatable. They might just do it if they can control the tempo. Also, they now have 2 wins under their belt. The novelty might be wearing off and instead, the belief that they are legit contenders might be setting in. That kind of confidence helps too!

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I'll gladly allow Bucknell to wreck my NCAA Pool if they could stun Memphis. But I think stopping them will be a pretty tall order. Memphis has multiple ways to beat you, and it will be a challenge for Bucknell's interior defense to bottle up *both* Carney and Williams underneath.

Bucknell's interior defense worked against Arkansas because the Hogs weren't that good underneath. If - and that's a big if - the Bison are successful controlling their own backboard, there is a chance that they can force Memphis' young guards into mistakes.

It will take one heck on an effort - again. Then again, this group continues to confound expectations and Flannery -- I think even his biggest detractors would agree -- is a brilliant NCAA tournament coach.

If Bucknell can do the impossible again -- making the Sweet 16 would not only change the Bison forever -- it would transform the Patriot League. It would be "will they be the next Gonzaga OR BUCKNELL", and the power of that is immeasurable.

[carney2]

Like it or not (and why would we not?!!) Bucknell has established a national presence and will be dragging the rest of the Patriot League with them. We aren't gonna be the ACC, but Patriot teams other than Bucknell will be beating big conference/big reputation teams in the coming years. Thanks, Bison.

[colgate13]

Absolutely. Two NCAA wins in a row has moved mountains in the PL. The rest of the league must follow, but I tell you, BU has done wonders for their future recruiting. It's funny to read what the Holy Cross folks have to say. Some are realistic and gracious, but some act like their divine right has been messed with and BU is only a flash in the pan to Holy Cross's greatness...

The real issue with the PL is how fast the bottom can get at least respectable, especially OOC. In particular, Colgate and Lafayette need to get good. Once that happens, we've got ourselves a nice little hoops league that won't be so obscure or the butt of jokes and never ending 15/16 seeds.

[ngineer]

Absolutely. Two NCAA wins in a row has moved mountains in the PL. The rest of the league must follow, but I tell you, BU has done wonders for their future recruiting. It's funny to read what the Holy Cross folks have to say. Some are realistic and gracious, but some act like their divine right has been messed with and BU is only a flash in the pan to Holy Cross's greatness...

The real issue with the PL is how fast the bottom can get at least respectable, especially OOC. In particular, Colgate and Lafayette need to get good. Once that happens, we've got ourselves a nice little hoops league that won't be so obscure or the butt of jokes and never ending 15/16 seeds.

I agree the League is getting much better. Schools llike HC that have such a tradition have a tough time dealing with an intruder. HC still thinks they are 'big time' due to their Cousey days 60 years ago...:rolleyes:

[carney2]

The real issue with the PL is how fast the bottom can get at least respectable, especially OOC. In particular, Colgate and Lafayette need to get good. Once that happens, we've got ourselves a nice little hoops league that won't be so obscure or the butt of jokes and never ending 15/16 seeds.

O'Hanlon will have Lafayette in the mix within 3 years.

Colgate apparently needs to make some major changes. They just aren't getting it done.

What about Navy? They showed some sparks of a comeback this year, but perhaps the scholarship thing is too much for them. Where is David Robinson when you need him?!

And what about Lehigh? Has Taylor taken the program as far as he can? This is a program that seems to have plateaued. Will the Bison phenomenon move them forward?

And then there's Holy Cross. Willard immediately took his scholarship babies to their current level and has kept them there. That's good. The negative is that he doesn't seem to be able to take them to the [I]next[I] level. Their rabid fans aren't wrong: this is the program that should have registered the 1st NCAA win for the Patriot League. They had their chances.

[Hansel]

Their rabid fans aren't wrong: this is the program that should have registered the 1st NCAA win for the Patriot League. They had their chances.

I was at the HC-Kansas opening round game in St Louis a couple of years ago, HC lead for most of the game but couldn't make shots at the end. As I hate KU, I was rooting hard for HC but they couldn't pull it off :(.

[Pard4Life]

A late congrats to Bucknell!!! Awesome win! However the Bison don't win if they don't somehow keep knocking down threes in the second half. However I have some new respect for the Bison since they were able to get physical and slug it out with a big, athletic team. Bring on Memphis! Should be a dandy.

The announcer called Bucknell "the next Gonzaga?". I think that was overdoing it a bit.

If the PL wants to become a great mid-major ala the MVC:

Colgate needs to be serious about hoops and fire Davis

Lafayette will be back no doubt, little worries here

Army needs to win... same with Navy.. military schools carry their own clout.. look at Air Force

keep scheduling big teams and try to get on TV.. plus NCAA/NIT wins

and American I just couldn't care... we are just using them to keep the auto-bid alive... come back Fordham! :(

[ngineer]

O'Hanlon will have Lafayette in the mix within 3 years.

Colgate apparently needs to make some major changes. They just aren't getting it done.

What about Navy? They showed some sparks of a comeback this year, but perhaps the scholarship thing is too much for them. Where is David Robinson when you need him?!

And what about Lehigh? Has Taylor taken the program as far as he can? This is a program that seems to have plateaued. Will the Bison phenomenon move them forward?
And then there's Holy Cross. Willard immediately took his scholarship babies to their current level and has kept them there. That's good. The negative is that he doesn't seem to be able to take them to the [I]next[I] level. Their rabid fans aren't wrong: this is the program that should have registered the 1st NCAA win for the Patriot League. They had their chances.

I don't think Lehigh has plateaued. I like Taylor alot. He is a classy person and seems to get alot out of his players. He has now been here four years and has had the chance to establish his program and players. We have a couple excellent recruits coming in next fall and had a couple this past year that should make an impact next year. Bucknell loses a lot from this year's team. Flannery hasn't used his bench alot so it's hard to assess how good the underclassment will be when thrown into the breach--as it is with anyone. The PL should definitely be raised a notch in the minds of the NCAA. I've been afraid that Lehigh will lose Taylor to a 'big time' program soon; though I hear he is very happy at Lehigh and loves the Lehligh Valley...

[colgate13]

You are all right on Colgate. We need a whole 'Total Extreme Makeover'!

I just think we'll all going to have to suffer through a real bad year next year before it happens... :(

[Pard4Life]

I don't think Lehigh has plateaued. I like Taylor alot. He is a classy person and seems to get alot out of his players. He has now been here four years and has had the chance to establish his program and players. We have a couple excellent recruits coming in next fall and had a couple this past year that should make an impact next year. Bucknell loses a lot from this year's team. Flannery hasn't used his bench alot so it's hard to assess how good the underclassment will be when thrown into the breach--as it is with anyone. The PL should definitely be raised a notch in the minds of the NCAA. I've been afraid that Lehigh will lose Taylor to a 'big time' program soon; though I hear he is very happy at Lehigh and loves the Lehligh Valley...

Bison just lose Lee and Bettencourt. Those are big players, but you still have McNaughton, Brown, Badmus, Mastroplano, Griffin, and Vegotsky. Those last two should step in for Lee and Bettencourt.

And I still think that Bucknell is viewed as the lone star in a bleak PL sky in the eyes of the NCAA, with Holy Cross as the sideshow. Nobody else in this league has forced anyone to stand up and take notice. We are lucky now to even be identified by common fans thanks to Bucknell. The Lafayette run is long forgotten, so is Navy and Adonal Foyle at Colgate. Lehigh was never on the national radar (that double digit loss to double digit loss column Florida AM in '04 was absurd). Actually Lehigh is on the radar... they keep getting cited as the team that Allen Ray hit 8 3s against on CBS telecasts.

Bucknell sweeping the league also doesn't help our profile in the NCAA light either. It merely says "Bucknell is an awesome mid-major that can beat the best, but happens to play in the sub-par PL'". If Bucknell lost a game or two in the PL to PL teams that were NIT worthy or beat somebody big, then our league might be more noted and discussed. But for now, we are still toiling in anonymity.

But here come the Leopards! And their scholarship team... finally! Let's schedule Nova in a few years and cause some chatter.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Lehigh was never on the national radar (that double digit loss to double digit loss column Florida AM in '04 was absurd). Actually Lehigh is on the radar... they keep getting cited as the team that Allen Ray hit 8 3s against on CBS telecasts.>>

Or when Dick Vitale said he was really going to walk from NYC to Bethlehem, Pa at halftime during Lehigh's first round game against #1 Temple in 1988. Although i'm too young to remember that game, my pops has the tape and Lehigh could have made some headway that year if they hadn't been relagated to a #16 seed.

[kardplayer]

And I still think that Bucknell is viewed as the lone star in a bleak PL sky in the eyes of the NCAA, with Holy Cross as the sideshow. Nobody else in this league has forced anyone to stand up and take notice.

...

Bucknell sweeping the league also doesn't help our profile in the NCAA light either. It merely says "Bucknell is an awesome mid-major that can beat the best, but happens to play in the sub-par PL'". If Bucknell lost a game or two in the PL to PL teams that were NIT worthy or beat somebody big, then our league might be more noted and discussed. But for now, we are still toiling in anonymity.

I have to agree with this... Holy Cross had a respectable year, 20-12, 13-3 in the PL regular season, including 2 losses to Bucknell, but no real quality victories, and a win in last year's NIT. But no NIT berth this year. If the league was really getting respect, they would have...

[colgate13]

And I still think that Bucknell is viewed as the lone star in a bleak PL sky in the eyes of the NCAA, with Holy Cross as the sideshow.

xlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolx

Oh man, I wish you would go to the Holy Cross fan site and start that line of conversation!

If you've never been, take a stroll someday. It is flat out HYSTERICAL to read how some (not all of course) still think HC needs to leave the PL because they're too good for it, that Bucknell is a flash in the pan to HC's greater glory, and basically that it's Holy Cross that is the national basketball name in the PL!

Too much... :rotateh:

[dbackjon]

Congrats to Bucknell on winning a first round game again!

[Ken_Z]

Bison just lose Lee and Bettencourt. Those are big players, but you still have McNaughton, Brown, Badmus, Mastroplano, Griffin, and Vegotsky. Those last two should step in for Lee and Bettencourt.

Lee and Bettencourt are huge losses for the Bison. Vegotsky may well ultimately replace Bettencourt's talent, but cannot possibly immediately replace the experience and leadership on the court. No one on the squad can replace the total package that Lee brought to the game. On numerous occassions he picked the team up and carried them when they were struggling.

Now, having acknowledged that, they still have a lot of talent and potential. But how many times have you seen fans of teams on top dissappointed because they are conficdent that there is more talent in the pipeline, but it doesn't pan out? Even with the talent, duplicating the chemistry is far from a given.



Bucknell sweeping the league also doesn't help our profile in the NCAA light either. It merely says "Bucknell is an awesome mid-major that can beat the best, but happens to play in the sub-par PL'". If Bucknell lost a game or two in the PL to PL teams that were NIT worthy or beat somebody big, then our league might be more noted and discussed. But for now, we are still toiling in anonymity.


For now, but the league on the whole is on the upswing. This year HC except for injuries/thin bench and Lehigh except for no Joe in ooc would have been serious contenders for the NIT. Big gap to other schools this year, but it is easy to envision the other five all being improved next year.

By the way, if you can't tell, I am bullish on the future of the Patriot League.

[colgate13]

By the way, if you can't tell, I am bullish on the future of the Patriot League.

You're not alone! :nod:

[Ken_Z]

You're not alone! :nod:

Well I already knew you were with me 13. Few others are wise enough to share the vision and simply see things as they are today. Fortunately, I believe our current leaders are with us.

[colgate13]

Well I already knew you were with me 13. Few others are wise enough to share the vision and simply see things as they are today. Fortunately, I believe our current leaders are with us.

If the presidents of Colgate, Bucknell and Lafayette have their way, the PL of 10 years from now will be quite a more mature animal than it is today. We just need to hope the new guy at Lehigh is on board, and pray that Holy Cross sees the light sometime this decade.

[Pard4Life]

If the presidents of Colgate, Bucknell and Lafayette have their way, the PL of 10 years from now will be quite a more mature animal than it is today. We just need to hope the new guy at Lehigh is on board, and pray that Holy Cross sees the light sometime this decade.

What is Holy Cross' presdiential situation? Are they going to be getting a new president soon.. that maybe could be more in line with the BCLL axis?

..just asking..

Or does he have to be a member of the church? I think that's how Jesuits work.. :confused:

[colgate13]

Or does he have to be a member of the church? I think that's how Jesuits work.. :confused:

Yes, I believe it would be father so and so...

I don't think they have any new presidential plans for a few years now... but a 4-5 school voting bloc could pretty much roll over HC IMO. They've got no leg to stand on having hung their hat on basketball scholarships.