Big Sky to UND....

[NDB]

Drop the Nickname:


http://legacy.grandforksherald.com/pdfs/Big_Sky.pdf

[TexasTerror]

Article... not a good combination when legislators get involved in intercollegiate athletics.

http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/206310

[NoCoDanny]

It would be nice to see this settled like sometime in the next decade or so if that's not asking too much?

[citdog]

Not having a dog in the fight I rarely comment on the dakota issue but I know COERCION when I see it. Let them call their athletic team just whatever the good godamn they want to. I sympathize with them and admire them for having the guts to stand up and resist this intellectual tyranny of a few closet queers in academia who are more concerned with image than anything else. If these charlatans want to do something of substance for the Indigenous Peoples of this continent have them take a sabattical and teach at the reservation school for a year. This would make a tangible difference but these "little eichmann's" aren't interested in that.

[gjw007]

An interesting aspect is the league stating that the majority of the schools had good relations with the tribes in their area and will side with them in any dispute. The part that is interesting is that UND has approval from the nearest tribe and the other tribe's leadership refuses to let the tribe vote (polls show most members approve). Strictly on what is written, then there should be no problem but the tone was that they will take the NCAA Executive Committee's view to eliminate Indian names.

As an aside, UND has more native American students than all the native American students at all the schools that refuse to play UND because of the nickname combined. It should make you wonder who is being racist.

Right or wrong, UND should just go on as UND without a nickname or logo. Of course, Dakota is a name of an Indian tribe so it will be politically incorrect as well!

[Grizzaholic]

I hope UND doesn't change their name because a bunch of douches think they should. If they are forced to change, I hope their new name is much worse.

[darell1976]

This is a huge blow, and I thank Al Carlson (R-Fargo and Bison alum) for sticking his nose in an issue that was settled and was about to move on. Now the BSC is telling UND to follow the NCAA's rule or face possible sanctions. Thanks Al for again getting Sioux nickname supporters' hopes up only to have them crushed. I say re-start the retirement process...we need the Big Sky.

[TheBisonator]

I hope UND doesn't change their name because everyone in college athletics think they should. If they are forced to change, I hope their new name is much worse.

Fixed it for you.

[citdog]

Fixed it for you.

If everyone was jumping off the Cooper River Bridge would you jump too?

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-COfyar80h54/TZR-dleaJbI/AAAAAAAAAUY/abjfTp8WzjQ/s1600/cooper%252520river%252520bridge.jpg

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Fixed it for you.

Every overly sensitive pussy in college athletics is what you mean. Should we change the names of states that use Indian words and tribe names also. We need to get rid of a whole lot names like Chryenne and so forth if this is a real problem because those places must be at least as big a disgrace right?

All of college athletics? What a bunch of spineless pussies if that were the case. Let's go to the real heart of the matter and see what the school is actually doing in comparison to your school and others out there for the Sioux people. I really don't know but I saw an earlier post saying that more of that tribe was enrolled and being educated at UND than most others. Seems like they would really want to avoid that place if it was such a slight to the people doesn't it?

The absolute feminization of this country is amazing when even people from the more rugged states start acting like this.

[Tod]

Blah, blah, blah, political correctness, blah, blah...whine...etc....

That part of the argument is over, and re-hashing it constantly isn't going to change that. UND needs to do what's in its best interest, but their legislature ****ed that up for them.

Drop the name and move on.

[citdog]

I would be remiss if I didn't point out who was responsible for the genocide against the Indigenous Peoples.

http://americancivilwar.com/pictures/president_grant.jpg

http://64.34.162.133/uploads2/General_Sherman_and_the_Fried_Peaches_-_General-Sherman-Atlanta.jpg

http://docsouth.unc.edu/fpn/pryor/pryor377.gif

[citdog]

Blah, blah, blah, political correctness, blah, blah...whine...etc....

That part of the argument is over, and re-hashing it constantly isn't going to change that. UND needs to do what's in its best interest, but their legislature ****ed that up for them.

Drop the name and move on.

Why is that part of the argument over? Why is it ok for others to COERCE this Institution? What gives them the right to dictate what another school in another SOVEREIGN State calls its athletic teams?

[The Eagle's Cliff]

I hope UND doesn't change their name because a bunch of douches think they should. If they are forced to change, I hope their new name is much worse.

There are ways to fight the ignorance of Liberal Tyranny

A bunch of PC Police changed the Georgia Flag from:

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTMCmF7Zh0-b7qVCDsnTQeO9_SMduefneJ7cFXIfCspeIHflSdxQw TO http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRSAUvFz12ytGs17ATybvhfYwbt-NH_vQz6I6xHUN6L4vPu0Rd-

After throwing those who changed it out of office, it was changed back to:

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcReaOyJ5z5JtsjD37XI5z2OnrU2BKJkW 3mKvBP24NiVDzFFOCkJ

Most are familiar with the first Confederate symbol which was the St. Andrew's Cross Battle Flag.

The Symbol on the current flag is the First National Flag of the Confederacy or "The Stars and Bars"xsmiley_wix.

I hope UND holds their ground and continues to fight for their freedom and autonomy.

[citdog]

Some folks from "off" are STILL ATTEMPTING to COERCE South Carolina because they do not care for where we display the Colors of the Army of Northern Virginia. They can NUZZLE MY REBEL SCHMECKLE.

http://cdn0.sbnation.com/legacy_images/dawgsports/images/admin/South_Carolina_memorial.jpg

[Hammerhead]

None of the states are sovereign. Mabye UND can join the NAIA if they want to keep the Fighting Sioux nickname? I don't really care what they are called.


Why is that part of the argument over? Why is it ok for others to COERCE this Institution? What gives them the right to dictate what another school in another SOVEREIGN State calls its athletic teams?

[citdog]

None of the states are sovereign. Mabye UND can join the NAIA if they want to keep the Fighting Sioux nickname? I don't really care what they are called.


That's news to these States.

http://www.charlestoncitypaper.com/imager/popular_state_sovereignty_bills_draw_comparison_to _civil_war_posturing/b/big/1144462/d675/breakup.jpg


They should be able to call their teams whatever the hell they want.

Then why don't you shut your whore mouth?

[ursus arctos horribilis]

None of the states are sovereign. Mabye UND can join the NAIA if they want to keep the Fighting Sioux nickname? I don't really care what they are called.

And you don't mind letting the NCAA dictate something like this that has been a part of that schools identity for so long. Nobody would have said **** about this even 30 yrs. ago but with all the females running around today it's a problem. Never know what will be next because when everybody caves on this sort of thing they think they can take further liberties...probably won't be the Grizzliex or the Bison or even anything to do with names but once it starts a lot of people will wonder why the hell they **** get this far.

But, it would have been a lot easier if the ND legislature had stayed out of it I can agree with that.

[citdog]

At some point this pc bull****, touchy, feely, hippie, how we would have liked for the past to have been excrement will just collapse upon itself and be totally rejected. Of this I am sure and does not really concern me. It is the COERCION that bothers me and the acceptance by and even the urging on by others that does.


http://www.tenthamendmentcenter.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/reclaiming-american-revolution.jpg

[Tod]

Why is that part of the argument over? Why is it ok for others to COERCE this Institution? What gives them the right to dictate what another school in another SOVEREIGN State calls its athletic teams?

Because nothing is going to change it, at least not in the short term. UND's choices are; keep the name and suffer the playoff consequences, or drop/change the name and don't. Or, they could leave the NCAA, I guess. All schools belong out of choice, don't they?

[citdog]

All States belong out of choice, don't they?


You see what I did there Tod?

[Tod]

You see what I did there Tod?

Yeah. You made something up.

[citdog]

Yeah. You made something up.

No I just pointed out the GREAT TRUTH OF THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE STATES AND THE NATIONAL GOVERNMENT AND THE FALLACY OF THE ARGUMENT THAT WHAT ONE JOINS IN A VOLUNTARY MANNER ONE CANNOT LEAVE IN THE SAME MANNER. Actually YOU made it FOR ME.......which was GLORIOUS!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0n4izWmWug

[Tod]

No I just pointed out the GREAT TRUTH OF THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE STATES AND THE NATIONAL GOVERNMENT AND THE FALLACY OF THE ARGUMENT THAT WHAT ONE JOINS IN A VOLUNTARY MANNER ONE CANNOT LEAVE IN THE SAME MANNER. Actually YOU made it FOR ME.......which was GLORIOUS!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0n4izWmWug

Let's just stick to the facts, shall we? UND could leave the NCAA if they wanted to. States cannot leave the union. Maybe you don't like it, but that's the way it is.

Now, why don't we try to stick to the UND question, mmmkay?

[ursus arctos horribilis]

He did get ya on the template of the sentiment on that one Tod.xlolx

[Tod]

He did get ya on the template of the sentiment on that one Tod.xlolx

I disagree. Two different things, two different answers.

I can quit my job or quit school with no notice, just not show up. Try that if you're in the military and see what happens. Different things, different answers, and that greatly upsets citdog, but that's just the way it is.

Or is citdog arguing that UND could not leave the NCAA? I don't think so.

[citdog]

I disagree. Two different things, two different answers.

I can quit my job or quit school with no notice, just not show up. Try that if you're in the military and see what happens. Different things, different answers, and that greatly upsets citdog, but that's just the way it is.

Or is citdog arguing that UND could not leave the NCAA? I don't think so.


The union and the ncaa.........BOTH are VOLUNTARY TO JOIN.............BOTH ATTEMPT TO COERCE THEIR MEMBERS.... AND BOTH CAN BE QUIT BY WITHDRAWING CONSENT. The outcome of the late unpleasantness did NOTHING TO CHANGE THE FACT THAT TO FORCE A GOVERNMENT UPON A FREE MAN THAT DOES NOT ENJOY HIS CONSENT IS THE DEFINITION OF SLAVERY AND TYRANNY.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I disagree. Two different things, two different answers.

I can quit my job or quit school with no notice, just not show up. Try that if you're in the military and see what happens. Different things, different answers, and that greatly upsets citdog, but that's just the way it is.

Or is citdog arguing that UND could not leave the NCAA? I don't think so.

Well citdog he's got ya on that one.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

The union and the ncaa.........BOTH are VOLUNTARY TO JOIN.............BOTH ATTEMPT TO COERCE THEIR MEMBERS.... AND BOTH CAN BE QUIT BY WITHDRAWING CONSENT. The outcome of the late unpleasantness did NOTHING TO CHANGE THE FACT THAT TO FORCE A GOVERNMENT UPON A FREE MAN THAT DOES NOT ENJOY HIS CONSENT IS THE DEFINITION OF SLAVERY AND TYRANNY.

and the pendulum swings back the other direction.

[Tod]

The union and the ncaa.........BOTH are VOLUNTARY TO JOIN.............BOTH ATTEMPT TO COERCE THEIR MEMBERS.... AND BOTH CAN BE QUIT BY WITHDRAWING CONSENT. The outcome of the late unpleasantness did NOTHING TO CHANGE THE FACT THAT TO FORCE A GOVERNMENT UPON A FREE MAN THAT DOES NOT ENJOY HIS CONSENT IS THE DEFINITION OF SLAVERY AND TYRANNY.

Is it slavery and tyranny that Obama is in the White House? I'm pretty sure you voted for McCain, so is this government "forced" on you?

Jesus, citdog, you are free to do what you want, go where you want, even leave the country if you want. How in the hell is that slavery? Or tyranny?

UND just needs to drop the name and move on. If they need the legislature to undo their stupid law, then they should do that.

I know this has probably been asked, but couldn't they change the name to whichever tribe it was that approved the name? Like the "Standing Rock Sioux"? I'd say drop the "Fighting", too long. But they could still refer to themselves as "The Sioux", for short, like Huskers or Canes.

Anybody know if that's been discussed?

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Is it slavery and tyranny that Obama is in the White House? I'm pretty sure you voted for McCain, so is this government "forced" on you?

Jesus, citdog, you are free to do what you want, go where you want, even leave the country if you want. How in the hell is that slavery? Or tyranny?

UND just needs to drop the name and move on. If they need the legislature to undo their stupid law, then they should do that.

I know this has probably been asked, but couldn't they change the name to whichever tribe it was that approved the name? Like the "Standing Rock Sioux"? I'd say drop the "Fighting", too long. But they could still refer to themselves as "The Sioux", for short, like Huskers or Canes.

Anybody know if that's been discussed?

I don't remember that being discussed but it is a good point and would seem to be a way out of the mess but I don't know if it would give the NCAA enough gratification to have them do that. It seems like a good way to do it if was acceptable to the tribe though.

Hell pay that one tribe in scholarships and let the one that wouldn't allow the members to vote have the heat put on them. I bet they'd allow the vote and this would be all over with if they thought they weren't the lynch pin any longer.

[Tod]

I don't remember that being discussed but it is a good point and would seem to be a way out of the mess but I don't know if it would give the NCAA enough gratification to have them do that. It seems like a good way to do it if was acceptable to the tribe though.

Hell pay that one tribe in scholarships and let the one that wouldn't allow the members to vote have the heat put on them. I bet they'd allow the vote and this would be all over with if they thought they weren't the lynch pin any longer.

You know, maybe since the legislature passed that law, it will force the dissenting tribe to reconsider. Because now that Fighting Sioux is the law, there's nothing UND can do, and they will suffer athletically for it. UND should go back to that tribe and ask them to reconsider their position, because they were about to change the name to comply with their wishes, and now they can't. Their athletic programs and the economy will suffer.

Hmmmmm...

[citdog]

Is it slavery and tyranny that Obama is in the White House? I'm pretty sure you voted for McCain, so is this government "forced" on you?

Jesus, citdog, you are free to do what you want, go where you want, even leave the country if you want. How in the hell is that slavery? Or tyranny?

UND just needs to drop the name and move on. If they need the legislature to undo their stupid law, then they should do that.

I know this has probably been asked, but couldn't they change the name to whichever tribe it was that approved the name? Like the "Standing Rock Sioux"? I'd say drop the "Fighting", too long. But they could still refer to themselves as "The Sioux", for short, like Huskers or Canes.

Anybody know if that's been discussed?

It has been tyranny since the first blue bellied yankee son of a ***** set his coercing foot on Southern Soil to enforce the will of one section on another at the point of a bayonet. I am free to what I want, as long as what I want isn't a Country of my own and for the Southern People. THE CAUSE is being vindicated before our very eyes and in our own time.

http://www.glogster.com/media/15/38/37/22/38372292.gif



We should allow this school to do whatever they feel is in their best interests and leave them to their own affairs.

[Western_101]

So the Illinois Illini are cool with the NCAA. The Florida State Seminoles are cool with the NCAA. The North Dakota Sioux are hostile and offensive to the NCAA.

Maybe if we wipe away all traces that the Genocide of the Jews that happened in WWII things will be better. Maybe if we try to re-write some of the history books or disallow children to read books about a different era in the U.S. when we were not so civil to all our citizens things will be better.

I live in Peoria Illinois. Peoria was an Indian Tribe name. Is Peoria offensive?(yeah,the name wisenheimers not the stinkin town) Illinois Indians in the past spoke their Native Illini-Miami language, Guess we need to add Miami (OH) University to the list of "hostile and offensive institutions"

My personal opinion is that since the Anglo-Saxon (see what I did there, gosh I am PC) peoples came and took away the Native American's land, and slaughtered a huge percentage of their population, the cherry on the top of that sundae would be to completely wipe their existence from society and history. No names of Indians for mascots for schools for towns for anything. It should be illegal to utter any reference of any Indian Tribe, so as to expedite the process of ever even remembering they were here.

Thank you NCAA.

In the guise of social and racial sensitivity perhaps we can become the Nation that plays better for a made for T.V. movie. One where the name of a town or team has no meaning. We are a nation of Red Hawks and Red badgers and fighting Eagles and .......Uh Oh, PETA, what about our animals rights???????!!!!!

[ursus arctos horribilis]

You know, maybe since the legislature passed that law, it will force the dissenting tribe to reconsider. Because now that Fighting Sioux is the law, there's nothing UND can do, and they will suffer athletically for it. UND should go back to that tribe and ask them to reconsider their position, because they were about to change the name to comply with their wishes, and now they can't. Their athletic programs and the economy will suffer.

Hmmmmm...

From what I understand Tod the dissenting tribe is not even settled yet. I think the politics in the tribe are pretty iffy because when polled the members come out in favor of UND keeping the name but the leaders of the tribe will not hold a vote to determine democratical what the body wants.

I'm sure I will be corrected if I have that wrong.:D

[Tod]

From what I understand Tod the dissenting tribe is not even settled yet. I think the politics in the tribe are pretty iffy because when polled the members come out in favor of UND keeping the name but the leaders of the tribe will not hold a vote to determine democratical what the body wants.

I'm sure I will be corrected if I have that wrong.:D

I'm 99.9% sure that is correct. I'm hoping this will force that tribe to change their stance. Or the tribal council, rather, if that's what it's called.

[bandit]

Wow, this thread is entertaining. Deranged, but entertaining.

UND is free to call themselves whatever they want. And the Big Sky is free to tell them to take a hike, and the NCAA - an organization to which UND voluntarily belongs - is free to sanction them as they deem necessary. If UND doesn't want to be part of the Big Sky, or the NCAA, they are free to leave, and keep their nickname. If they want to be a part of the Big Sky, and avoid NCAA sanctions, then they need to change the name.

Simple.

[Poly's Brutality]

It has been tyranny since the first blue bellied yankee son of a ***** set his coercing foot on Southern Soil to enforce the will of one section on another at the point of a bayonet. I am free to what I want, as long as what I want isn't a Country of my own and for the Southern People. THE CAUSE is being vindicated before our very eyes and in our own time.

http://www.glogster.com/media/15/38/37/22/38372292.gif



We should allow this school to do whatever they feel is in their best interests and leave them to their own affairs.

See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLMU90Aa2Oo

[The Eagle's Cliff]

Wow, this thread is entertaining. Deranged, but entertaining.

UND is free to call themselves whatever they want. And the Big Sky is free to tell them to take a hike, and the NCAA - an organization to which UND voluntarily belongs - is free to sanction them as they deem necessary. If UND doesn't want to be part of the Big Sky, or the NCAA, they are free to leave, and keep their nickname. If they want to be a part of the Big Sky, and avoid NCAA sanctions, then they need to change the name.

Simple.

It is simple the way you put it, but not practical. The issue here, to me, is not about the name as much as it's about the NCAA bullying members into conforming with some asinine symbolic notion of "sensitivity". As a former smoker, I used to point out to anti-smoking zealots that once the door is opened to infringe upon personal freedom, nothing is off the table. Now, we've no salt on the table in NYC, San Francisco wants to prohibit McDonald's from selling Happy Meals, and a host of Libs want to tax soft drinks.

I'll stand for your right to do something I don't like, because I want the same consideration - That's Freedom.

UND has had the name for 80 years! Why is it all of a sudden "offensive"?

[darell1976]

UND and its fans are now faced with this option either keep the name and go Independent or lose the name and stay in the Big Sky. It sucks we can't stay in the Big Sky and keep the name but its not an option. And starting August 1st the ND state law takes over and UND must stay the Fighting Sioux. So this is a very complicated situation and its about to get worse.

[darell1976]

It is simple the way you put it, but not practical. The issue here, to me, is not about the name as much as it's about the NCAA bullying members into conforming with some asinine symbolic notion of "sensitivity". As a former smoker, I used to point out to anti-smoking zealots that once the door is opened to infringe upon personal freedom, nothing is off the table. Now, we've no salt on the table in NYC, San Francisco wants to prohibit McDonald's from selling Happy Meals, and a host of Libs want to tax soft drinks.

I'll stand for your right to do something I don't like, because I want the same consideration - That's Freedom.

UND has had the name for 80 years! Why is it all of a sudden "offensive"?

Because of the late Myles Brand and the NC$$. They are nothing but hypocrates. If they would have stood their ground and told the teams on their list in order to stay in the NCAA you must change your name they would look like they are doing the NA a favor. But then they changed their mind and said if you can get tribal approval which means the closest tribe to your school (ex. Central Michigan) except North Dakota you need 2 tribes even if 1 of the tribes have a little sliver in ND and the majority of it in SD they still need their approval. So you have the Spirit Lake Sioux Nation (closest to UND only 80 miles away) with 67% approval but the Standing Rock (over 250 miles away and 80% of it in South Dakota) refusing a total wide tribal vote (knowing their tribe would vote for the name) saying no. So I say restart the retirement process and move on.

[citdog]

See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLMU90Aa2Oo



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHcxTvBYjmM

[HannahO]

Not to muddy such a hardy and passionate discussion with facts but ... I believe the NCAA position is that "Colleges and universities may adopt any mascot that they wish, as that is an institutional matter. But as a national association, the NCAA believe that mascots, nicknames or images deemed hostile or abusive in terms of race, ethnicity or national origin should not be visible at the championship events that they administer." The standard "hostile and abusive" is in part from case law. The NCAA committee members cited such language as being applied in civil cases in which decisions were reached on the basis of what "a reasonable person" would find to be hostile or abusive. The "hostile and abusive" standard also is stronger than simply "offensive," which courts have ruled is protected under the freedom of expression. Of the 33 schools that originally had names associated with Native American culture, only one was able to demonstrate that that their use of Native American mascots, nicknames or imagery was a direct result of Native Americans attending or associating with their institutions. Only the University of North Carolina at Pembroke, which was founded as a school for Native Americans and whose current enrollment is 21 percent Native American, was able to justify that its use of "Braves" as a nickname was appropriate. Several other (14) were able to establish that their nicknames (Warriors) were not associated with Native American culture, and several were received waivers due to approval of the Native American population of the use of their name and images as a mascot (the most widely known is Florida State).

This is not an argument of Federal vs State Sovereignty, feminism, communism, liberalism, or whatever other ideology you may find objectionable. Just as you can name your child whatever name you like, call your school whatever name you prefer just know there are some consequences and live with them.

[citdog]

Not to muddy such a hardy and passionate discussion with facts but ... I believe the NCAA position is that "Colleges and universities may adopt any mascot that they wish, as that is an institutional matter. But as a national association, the NCAA believe that mascots, nicknames or images deemed hostile or abusive in terms of race, ethnicity or national origin should not be visible at the championship events that they administer." The standard "hostile and abusive" is in part from case law. The NCAA committee members cited such language as being applied in civil cases in which decisions were reached on the basis of what "a reasonable person" would find to be hostile or abusive. The "hostile and abusive" standard also is stronger than simply "offensive," which courts have ruled is protected under the freedom of expression. Of the 33 schools that originally had names associated with Native American culture, only one was able to demonstrate that that their use of Native American mascots, nicknames or imagery was a direct result of Native Americans attending or associating with their institutions. Only the University of North Carolina at Pembroke, which was founded as a school for Native Americans and whose current enrollment is 21 percent Native American, was able to justify that its use of "Braves" as a nickname was appropriate. Several other (14) were able to establish that their nicknames (Warriors) were not associated with Native American culture, and several were received waivers due to approval of the Native American population of the use of their name and images as a mascot (the most widely known is Florida State).

This is not an argument of Federal vs State Sovereignty, feminism, communism, liberalism, or whatever other ideology you may find objectionable. Just as you can name your child whatever name you like, call your school whatever name you prefer just know there are some consequences and live with them.


BULL****


This is case of a few total douchebags who want to dictate to and force their views, which are not mainstream, on the rest of us. What is "hostile and abusive" to you may not be to me.

[bandit]

Not to muddy such a hardy and passionate discussion with facts but ... I believe the NCAA position is that "Colleges and universities may adopt any mascot that they wish, as that is an institutional matter. But as a national association, the NCAA believe that mascots, nicknames or images deemed hostile or abusive in terms of race, ethnicity or national origin should not be visible at the championship events that they administer." The standard "hostile and abusive" is in part from case law. The NCAA committee members cited such language as being applied in civil cases in which decisions were reached on the basis of what "a reasonable person" would find to be hostile or abusive. The "hostile and abusive" standard also is stronger than simply "offensive," which courts have ruled is protected under the freedom of expression. Of the 33 schools that originally had names associated with Native American culture, only one was able to demonstrate that that their use of Native American mascots, nicknames or imagery was a direct result of Native Americans attending or associating with their institutions. Only the University of North Carolina at Pembroke, which was founded as a school for Native Americans and whose current enrollment is 21 percent Native American, was able to justify that its use of "Braves" as a nickname was appropriate. Several other (14) were able to establish that their nicknames (Warriors) were not associated with Native American culture, and several were received waivers due to approval of the Native American population of the use of their name and images as a mascot (the most widely known is Florida State).

This is not an argument of Federal vs State Sovereignty, feminism, communism, liberalism, or whatever other ideology you may find objectionable. Just as you can name your child whatever name you like, call your school whatever name you prefer just know there are some consequences and live with them.

Exactly right.

[Western_101]

listen, I get it, no more Redskins, Savages and the such...as i perceive that to be offensive....but the simple name of a freekin Indian tribe.....Is that not a tribute? is that not part of our country? These As*holes at the NCAA are the biggest collective group of knee jerk douche bags the sports and college community have ever had the indignity to suffer.

NCAA has become drunk with their own power. They sure like the way things are going but the thought process has gone out the window.

[Tod]

BULL****


This is case of a few total douchebags who want to dictate to and force their views, which are not mainstream, on the rest of us. What is "hostile and abusive" to you may not be to me.

We forgot that it's all about you. Sorry.

[citdog]

We forgot that it's all about you. Sorry.

Tod you really are the simplest of ****s. I was speaking of the PROPAGANDA SLOGAN put forth by the ncaa. These slogans must be simple and short so that the mindless zombies who support this kind of pc groupthink can remember to grunt them in the appropriate places when they show up by the teens to rally.


http://weaselzippers.us/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Zombie1.jpg



Here's a book for you Tod but I bet you already own it because someone told you to.


http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr47/PlicketyCat/Widgets/MindlessConformity.png

[Tod]

Tod you really are the simplest of ****s. I was speaking of the PROPAGANDA SLOGAN put forth by the ncaa. These slogans must be simple and short so that the mindless zombies who support this kind of pc groupthink can remember to grunt them in the appropriate places when they show up by the teens to rally.


http://weaselzippers.us/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Zombie1.jpg



Here's a book for you Tod but I bet you already own it because someone told you to.


http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr47/PlicketyCat/Widgets/MindlessConformity.png

Simple and short? And then you post pictures?

[citdog]

Simple and short? And then you post pictures?

when dealing with a

http://www.brad-otto.com/uploads/2/7/3/0/2730016/8657031_orig.jpg

it's best to try and keep it simple.

I'm making flashcards

[Tod]

when dealing with a

http://www.brad-otto.com/uploads/2/7/3/0/2730016/8657031_orig.jpg

it's best to try and keep it simple.

I'm making flashcards

Good for you. You need them. Suggestion for your next one; THE SOUTH LOST!

You said
What is "hostile and abusive" to you may not be to me.

When I said that it's not all about you, I was trying to point out (without pictures, mind you) that just because you, and others who think the same way as you, aren't offended doesn't mean that others aren't.

But you seem to think that if YOU'RE not offended then nothing offensive has happened or been said.

Get off your high horse. You're not the only one that matters.

Those who scream about political correctness and how evil it is just want to be able to insult others with impunity. Well, you can say what you want, but those that are offended will speak as well.

As far as UND goes, I hope that the tribe that voted against keeping the Fighting Sioux nickname will reconsider now that the ND legislature has tied the university's hands. Maybe this will all sort itself out and the best outcome can be achieved.

Not that you care, citdog. You just need any old excuse to *****.

[citdog]

Good for you. You need them. Suggestion for your next one; THE SOUTH LOST!

You said

When I said that it's not all about you, I was trying to point out (without pictures, mind you) that just because you, and others who think the same way as you, aren't offended doesn't mean that others aren't.

But you seem to think that if YOU'RE not offended then nothing offensive has happened or been said.

Get off your high horse. You're not the only one that matters.

Those who scream about political correctness and how evil it is just want to be able to insult others with impunity. Well, you can say what you want, but those that are offended will speak as well.

As far as UND goes, I hope that the tribe that voted against keeping the Fighting Sioux nickname will reconsider now that the ND legislature has tied the university's hands. Maybe this will all sort itself out and the best outcome can be achieved.

Not that you care, citdog. You just need any old excuse to *****.


We're only resting.


No it's not all about me it's about FREEDOM YOU IGNORANT WRETCH! IT'S ABOUT NOT ALLOWING A FEW BLEEDING GASHES TO CHANGE THINGS THAT DON'T NEED CHANGING. THESE ARE THE SAME LEFTY PINKO SCUM WHO WANT TO TAKE GEORGE WASHINGTON'S NAME OFF OF SCHOOLS AND COVER UP HIS STATUE SO THAT NO ONE WOULD BE OFFENDED BY HAVING TO LOOK AT HIM.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_PVyDmTkfk6s/TTYqG2bcnkI/AAAAAAAAEJI/ccFkBwNVC6c/s1600/NCnaaccp.png

sherman's criminals broke his cane in 1865 and we didn't repair it as a reminder of the esteem in which that scum held Genl Washington.

[darell1976]

listen, I get it, no more Redskins, Savages and the such...as i perceive that to be offensive....but the simple name of a freekin Indian tribe.....Is that not a tribute? is that not part of our country? These As*holes at the NCAA are the biggest collective group of knee jerk douche bags the sports and college community have ever had to indignity to suffer.

NCAA has become drunk with their own power. They sure like the way things are going but the thought process has gone out the window.

Thats why the Spirit Lake Sioux tribe took a tribe wide vote and 67% of the tribe voted in favor of the name. The Standing Rock Sioux tribe are refusing to do the same thing because they had over 1000 petitions to get a tribe wide vote but it never went through the proper channels. UND has been nothing but respectful and honorable to the Sioux nation..no they did not "bribe" them like Florida State (FSU gives money to the Seminole tribe from merchandising). UND has a lot of Indian programs, and more Indian students than any other university up here. If they have such a problem with the nickname why does the Indian student enrollment at UND keep going up? Wouldn't they just go to NDSU?? The NCAA tried to please the NA community but when FSU threatened a lawsuit (like UND did) the NCAA got scared and since FSU = $$$$ they tweaked their list. The NCAA is a corrupt organization that needs a major overhaul.

[The Eagle's Cliff]

The NCAA is a corrupt organization that needs a major overhaul.

I think this is the ultimate point of the objections.

[Hammerhead]

When is the NCAA going to ask the other UND (Notre Dame) to get rid of it's offensive mascot? I'm 1/2 Irish and find the leprechaun very offensive.

[darell1976]

When is the NCAA going to ask the other UND (Notre Dame) to get rid of it's offensive mascot? I'm 1/2 Irish and find the leprechaun very offensive.

Notre Dame = $$$$$$ They will never do it.

[AmsterBison]

UND has had the name for 80 years! Why is it all of a sudden "offensive"?

Actually, the controversy has been around for over 40 years. It started when the first Standing Rock kids started attending UND.

[laxVik]

When is the NCAA going to ask the other UND (Notre Dame) to get rid of it's offensive mascot? I'm 1/2 Irish and find the leprechaun very offensive.Shame the irish here won't forcibly relocated and lied to for oh about 150 years.

[darell1976]

Actually, the controversy has been around for over 40 years. It started when the first Standing Rock kids started attending UND.

Was this after the 1969 Pipe Ceremony by the Standing Rock Tribal Chief granting UND lifetime permission to use the name according to their traditions. I guess Indian traditions don't last long do they.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Shame the irish here won't forcibly relocated and lied to for oh about 150 years.

UND did that?

[100%GRIZ]

Personally I hope the little guy (UND) keeps the Fighting Sioux name! Seems to me that Fullerton is just a puppet for the NCAA! Should get interesting though! Go Fighting Sioux! Go Griz!

[AmsterBison]

Was this after the 1969 Pipe Ceremony by the Standing Rock Tribal Chief granting UND lifetime permission to use the name according to their traditions. I guess Indian traditions don't last long do they.

Yeah, lecture Standing Rock on broken promises, there's no obvious irony in that. What you going to do, take the Black Hills from them again? :)

Besides, the Standing Rock Tribal Council opposes the nickname for decades. They are the tribe's only recognized legal authority, except, I guess when they decide something you don't like. It would be like saying treaties the US signed are invalid because Russia says that the people of the US didn't get a direct vote on them.

The controversy got its first press in 1966 so that would be before, after, and during 1969, I guess.

[darell1976]

Yeah, lecture Standing Rock on broken promises, there's no obvious irony in that. What you going to do, take the Black Hills from them again? :)

Besides, the Standing Rock Tribal Council opposes the nickname for decades. They are the tribe's only recognized legal authority, except, I guess when they decide something you don't like. It would be like saying treaties the US signed are invalid because Russia says that the people of the US didn't get a direct vote on them.

The controversy got its first press in 1966 so that would be before, after, and during 1969, I guess.

Well now the Standing Rock can't blame all their problems on the Sioux nickname no more... UND AD Brain Faison was on 970AM WDAY Radio (Fargo) and said step 1 in this mess is to talk to the NCAA (even though he knows the outcome of that) then they need to talk to Bismarck and somehow get that state law overtuned, because that law messed everything up and backed UND into a corner. Because without the Big Sky UND athletics...could be done. Faison said DII and or NAIA is NOT going to be an option for UND. So most Sioux fans (except die hard hockey fans) are calling out for UND to retire the name or (and this IMO is stupid talk) look at moving to the WAC, which UND is NOT prepared to do since the WAC has no problem with UND's nickname, and a Bowl is "not a playoff" and therefore UND would be eligible. UND's women's basketball team had a scheduled game this fall/winter with the University of Iowa....now gone because of the nickname. Its getting worse at UND. Stay Tuned!!!

[wr70beh]

BULL****


This is case of a few total douchebags who want to dictate to and force their views, which are not mainstream, on the rest of us. What is "hostile and abusive" to you may not be to me.

Let me guess....judging from your posts, you're not a fan of women at The Citadel, are you? Another case of a few douchebags who wanted to dictate and force change on you, right?

[citdog]

Let me guess....judging from your posts, you're not a fan of women at The Citadel, are you? Another case of a few douchebags who wanted to dictate and force change on you, right?

there are no women at The Citadel. I have no idea what you're talking about.

http://allianceqblog.qaaqblogs.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/head-in-sand.bmp

[NDB]

look at moving to the WAC, which UND is NOT prepared to do since the WAC has no problem with UND's nickname, a

You sound like star2city and 90% of sioux fans 5 days ago.

UND can't afford the Big Sky and you think they can add 40 schollies and fund an FBS program?

And you think the WAC, the most disfunctional DI conference, would give the Fighting Sioux the time of day?

[ursus arctos horribilis]

You sound like star2city and 90% of sioux fans 5 days ago.

UND can't afford the Big Sky and you think they can add 40 schollies and fund an FBS program?

And you think the WAC, the most disfunctional DI conference, would give the Fighting Sioux the time of day?

What exactly were you reading NDB? I saw the same post I think and it pretty clearly said "which UND is NOT prepared to do".

How could you possibly have not seen that?

[DJKyR0]

The best part was Carlson, the architect of the nickname law, going on the radio today and saying, quote, "we're going to call the Big Sky's bluff." Don't look at us, we never claimed the guy. Iceberg, dead ahead!

[darell1976]

You sound like star2city and 90% of sioux fans 5 days ago.

UND can't afford the Big Sky and you think they can add 40 schollies and fund an FBS program?

And you think the WAC, the most disfunctional DI conference, would give the Fighting Sioux the time of day?

Did you miss this little bit of wording???
So most Sioux fans (except die hard hockey fans) are calling out for UND to retire the name or (and this IMO is stupid talk) look at moving to the WAC, which UND is NOT prepared to do

I am not for moving to the WAC and if you look at SS.com I even say UND can't move since the Alerus doesn't hold 15,000 and cannot be expanded to that level nor is Memorial Stadium ready to be upgraded.

[darell1976]

The best part was Carlson, the architect of the nickname law, going on the radio today and saying, quote, "we're going to call the Big Sky's bluff." Don't look at us, we never claimed the guy. Iceberg, dead ahead!

I think this guy just blew any chance of a re-election especially if there are Sioux Alumns living in his district of South Fargo.

[jacksfan29]

I think this guy just blew any chance of a re-election especially if there are Sioux Alumns living in his district of South Fargo.

Actually, from what everything most Sioux fans have said Carlson would seem to be a shoe in if any UND fans live in his district. But hey, its Douple's fault because we know Fullerton is a stand up guy and the conference has no issues with the Sioux nickname.

By the way, do you know the WAC President's have no issue with the name? If your source is Star2City I would ask yourself just how out of touch he was when posting on the Big Sky situation. Unfortunately for UND fans most college Presidents are academics who fall into the University speech control politically correct way of thinking. Unfortunately for UND fans I think the name is going to need to change for you to be accepted in any D1 conference.

[darell1976]

Actually, from what everything most Sioux fans have said Carlson would seem to be a shoe in if any UND fans live in his district. But hey, its Douple's fault because we know Fullerton is a stand up guy and the conference has no issues with the Sioux nickname.

By the way, do you know the WAC President's have no issue with the name? If your source is Star2City I would ask yourself just how out of touch he was when posting on the Big Sky situation. Unfortunately for UND fans most college Presidents are academics who fall into the University speech control politically correct way of thinking. Unfortunately for UND fans I think the name is going to need to change for you to be accepted in any D1 conference.

I thought I only saw Bison fans using this quote on Bisonville. What does Douple have to do with this?? The Big Sky allowed UND in because they were in the process of retiring the name, now they aren't so the Big Sky called them on it. Of course Fullerton is doing what the NCAA says because UND goes back on the H&A list August 15th. As for the WAC Presidents having no issue on the name...Idaho schedules UND, Fresno State schedules UND. So i would think if the WAC or any conference presidents had problems we would hear about it. The only people with problems are the Big 10 with Minnesota, Iowa and Wisconsin, Summit League (Douple) although the SL teams still schedule UND, and now the Big Sky President. As for Star2City being out of touch with the Big Sky situation...even Brian Faison said yesterday it was a shock to see that letter. The only thing I agree on in your post is the last sentence.

[NDB]

The Douple thing is a joke. Don't you remember all the ballyhoo about the Chapman-Douple-Taylor conspiracy? That is, no one cares about the nickname and that NDSU had coerced the Summit to pretend it was an issue to keep UND out.

Idaho schedules, Fresno schedules... That's because UND wasn't on the list.

I don't think you have any idea how bad the sh#t storm in Grand Forks is going to be come August 15th. The athletic department will be DEAD. Schools will not pick up the phone when UND calls.

The only people with problems are the Big 10 with Minnesota, Iowa and Wisconsin, Summit League (Douple) although the SL teams still schedule UND, and now the Big Sky President.

Do you seriously believe this? These are the groups that have spoken up. Do you expect North Carolina, USC, and Pembroke to issue a statement about UND?

The NCAA which is a member driven organization has a problem with it, because at the least a majority and I would posit to say nearly ALL members have a problem with the misuse of native american nicknames.


You're as bad as Star2City.

[darell1976]

The Douple thing is a joke. Don't you remember all the ballyhoo about the Chapman-Douple-Taylor conspiracy? That is, no one cares about the nickname and that NDSU had coerced the Summit to pretend it was an issue to keep UND out.

Idaho schedules, Fresno schedules... That's because UND wasn't on the list.

I don't think you have any idea how bad the sh#t storm in Grand Forks is going to be come August 15th. The athletic department will be DEAD. Schools will not pick up the phone when UND calls.

The only people with problems are the Big 10 with Minnesota, Iowa and Wisconsin, Summit League (Douple) although the SL teams still schedule UND, and now the Big Sky President.

Do you seriously believe this? These are the groups that have spoken up. Do you expect North Carolina, USC, and Pembroke to issue a statement about UND?

The NCAA which is a member driven organization has a problem with it, because at the least a majority and I would posit to say nearly ALL members have a problem with the misuse of native american nicknames.


You're as bad as Star2City.

I would love to hear statements from Florida State, Utah, Central Michigan, Illinois, and William and Mary...schools that were on the H&A list. Its nice to see Bison fans loving UND's situation. You actually think UND is going to do nothing and let the school lose its athletic program that would cost the state millions and millions of dollars. Boy you do need to lay off the Bison Kool Aid.

[NDB]

Those schools were taken off the list for making changes or getting the okay of the namesake tribe - UND failed to do this. The got the NCAA to give them a few extra years in exchange for getting two of the three Sioux tribes in the state to agree - They failed.

I believe that it is possible that UND will be unable to address this in a timely manner and that the Big Sky will give them the boot. I doubt it will happen, but it's possible.

The same delusion you have in the post I just critiqued is mild compared to some of those in power.

Why would this cost the state anything?

[darell1976]

Those schools were taken off the list for making changes or getting the okay of the namesake tribe - UND failed to do this. The got the NCAA to give them a few extra years in exchange for getting two of the three Sioux tribes in the state to agree - They failed.

I believe that it is possible that UND will be unable to address this in a timely manner and that the Big Sky will give them the boot. I doubt it will happen, but it's possible.

The same delusion you have in the post I just critiqued is mild compared to some of those in power.

Why would this cost the state anything?

Are you serious??? You seriously wouldn't think ND would not lose money if UND shut down its athletics...let's start with loss of revenue from out of town people going to games. Shopping, hotels, restarants, moving to Grand Forks. Get the point

[NDB]

Oh, good heavens!

What would those people from out of town do with their money otherwise?

You said state, not Grand Forks.

[clenz]

Every overly sensitive pussy in college athletics is what you mean. Should we change the names of states that use Indian words and tribe names also. We need to get rid of a whole lot names like Chryenne and so forth if this is a real problem because those places must be at least as big a disgrace right?

All of college athletics? What a bunch of spineless pussies if that were the case. Let's go to the real heart of the matter and see what the school is actually doing in comparison to your school and others out there for the Sioux people. I really don't know but I saw an earlier post saying that more of that tribe was enrolled and being educated at UND than most others. Seems like they would really want to avoid that place if it was such a slight to the people doesn't it?

The absolute feminization of this country is amazing when even people from the more rugged states start acting like this.
Let's start a list of every school/state that uses Indian names some how

I'll start with the states and then we can list each school in the state that uses an Indian name

Alabama - From Alabama River by early European explorers and named "Alibamu" after the local Indian tribe
Alaska - Corruption of Aleut word meaning “great land” or “that which the sea breaks against”
Arizona - Uncertain. Perhaps from the O'odham Indian word for “little spring”
Arkansas - From the Quapaw Indians
Connecticut - From an Indian word (Quinnehtukqut) meaning “beside the long tidal river”
Illinois - Algonquin for “tribe of superior men”
Indiana - Meaning “land of Indians”
Iowa - From the Iowa River which was named after the Ioway Indian tribe
Kansas - From a Sioux word meaning “people of the south wind”
Kentucky - From an Iroquoian word “Ken-tah-ten” meaning “land of tomorrow”
Massachusetts - From Massachusett tribe of Native Americans, meaning “at or about the great hill”
Michigan - From Indian word “Michigana” meaning “great or large lake”
Minnesota - From a Dakota Indian word meaning “sky-tinted water”
Mississippi - From an Indian word meaning “Father of Waters”
Missouri - Named after the Missouri Indian tribe. “Missouri” means “town of the large canoes.”
North Dakota - From the Sioux tribe, meaning “allies”
Ohio - From an Iroquoian word meaning “great river”
Oklahoma - From two Choctaw Indian words meaning “red people”
South Dakota - From the Sioux tribe, meaning “allies”
Tennessee - Of Cherokee origin; the exact meaning is unknown
Texas - From an Indian word meaning “friends”
Utah - From the Ute tribe, meaning “people of the mountains”
Wyoming - From the Delaware Indian word, meaning “mountains and valleys alternating”; the same as the Wyoming Valley in Pennsylvania

[clenz]

Okay, now that the states are done, let's start a list of EVERY school in each state that uses an Indian reference...this way we can tell the NCAA to go after them as well.

[DG Cowboy]

Hi, my name is na, and I am na years old. I live in na, na. I attended college at na, and our mascot was the na. My wife na is of na ancestry. My two sons are na and na's brother. They now live in na. and na., and are of na sexual orientation. If I don't post again until 2012, have a Merry na!

[darell1976]

Oh, good heavens!

What would those people from out of town do with their money otherwise?

You said state, not Grand Forks.

Not a geography major but last I looked...Grand Forks is in North Dakota.xlolx And in Grand Forks there is something called a "State Tax"

What is State Tax?
Each state as a tax system which collects money, generally, from residents of that state based on their earned income. This money is then used by the state government to fund state and local programs. Most states collect an income tax, just as the IRS does for the federal government. These states generally collect income tax from both full- and part-time residents of the state, as well as non- residents who collected income from an employee within the state. Each state has it own set of tax forms to be used in these various situations.

Earned income like selling concessions and cleaning up at stadiums and arenas, selling merchandise at retail stores and/or stadiums and arenas. Less money in Grand Forks = less money in North Dakota. What you think everyone up in Grand Forks goes to Fargo and blows money on Bison stuff to make up the difference.xlolxxlolx

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Okay, now that the states are done, let's start a list of EVERY school in each state that uses an Indian reference...this way we can tell the NCAA to go after them as well.

Well there is a point that has been made that the NCAA is using "hostile & aggressive" or something like that as the lynch pin as to why UND is the problem and of course the fact that "Fighting Irish" is not in the same category that has been made as well. That's always the problem when you start singling out an institution like this for made up BS like this...it's gonna hit other institutions in some fashion or else they look hypocritical fools. I just can't see how people can even think that UND adopted this nickname as a way of dishonoring a people. The intention is pretty clearly to honor the people and the spirit of that area.

[darell1976]

Well there is a point that has been made that the NCAA is using "hostile & aggressive" or something like that as the lynch pin as to why UND is the problem and of course the fact that "Fighting Irish" is not in the same category that has been made as well. That's always the problem when you start singling out an institution like this for made up BS like this...it's gonna hit other institutions in some fashion or else they look hypocritical fools. I just can't see how people can even think that UND adopted this nickname as a way of dishonoring a people. The intention is pretty clearly to honor the people and the spirit of that area.

There is a radio talk show host here in Fargo named Christopher Gabriel he is on WDAY 790AM he said during the Frozen Four he talked to an NCAA offical and asked why if the NCAA is so against UND's nickname and logo does it appear on the NCAA.com merchandise website? In other words how can the NCAA make money on something they are against, and his response was "its apples to oranges". Are you kidding me NCAA??? That is so wrong. The NCAA cares about one thing $$$ and UND's hockey jersey was voted the best looking jersey among college, pro, and minor league hockey jerseys in the US and Canada. Take the logo away and you don't have a hot seller NCAA.

[NDB]

Not a geography major but last I looked...Grand Forks is in North Dakota.xlolx And in Grand Forks there is something called a "State Tax"

What is State Tax?
Each state as a tax system which collects money, generally, from residents of that state based on their earned income. This money is then used by the state government to fund state and local programs. Most states collect an income tax, just as the IRS does for the federal government. These states generally collect income tax from both full- and part-time residents of the state, as well as non- residents who collected income from an employee within the state. Each state has it own set of tax forms to be used in these various situations.

Earned income like selling concessions and cleaning up at stadiums and arenas, selling merchandise at retail stores and/or stadiums and arenas. Less money in Grand Forks = less money in North Dakota. What you think everyone up in Grand Forks goes to Fargo and blows money on Bison stuff to make up the difference.xlolxxlolx

But that money that people would have spent on athletics doesn't just disappear, Keynes.

[darell1976]

But that money that people would have spent on athletics doesn't just disappear, Keynes.

Then you tell the people of Minnesota that the state will not lose any money if the Vikings left. Its the same thing.

[NDB]

gladly.

with the exception that the team draws in significant revenue from out of state.

[UNIFanSince1983]

Well there is a point that has been made that the NCAA is using "hostile & aggressive" or something like that as the lynch pin as to why UND is the problem and of course the fact that "Fighting Irish" is not in the same category that has been made as well. That's always the problem when you start singling out an institution like this for made up BS like this...it's gonna hit other institutions in some fashion or else they look hypocritical fools. I just can't see how people can even think that UND adopted this nickname as a way of dishonoring a people. The intention is pretty clearly to honor the people and the spirit of that area.

Or the Fighting Illini...

But obviously since UND is the only team having this problem they are doing something wrong. There are plenty of other teams that have Native American team nicknames that aren't big money programs and they aren't running into the same problems.

I know it isn't right, but UND is going to have to just retire the name because of the NCAA and the Standing Rock. May as well start it now before it causes too many problems.

[UNIFanSince1983]

But that money that people would have spent on athletics doesn't just disappear, Keynes.

If they are from out of state it certainly does. Now that isn't the majority, but there is some money that will just disappear. Without athletics you won't get out of state tuition from kids coming there to play sports. These are just a few of them. It is a very vicious cycle and the state will stand to lose lots of money if UND does not have athletics.

[NDB]

I know things are run on the cheap in Cedar Falls, but many schools put their kids on scholarship.

Define lots of money? Millions? yes. Tens of millions? no.

College athletics are highly visible but at the state-level are not a driver of economic growth.

[NDB]

Lots of money?

Statewide what would the effect be? Millions? yes. Tens of millions? no.

[JSUBison]

There is a radio talk show host here in Fargo named Christopher Gabriel he is on WDAY 790AM he said during the Frozen Four he talked to an NCAA offical and asked why if the NCAA is so against UND's nickname and logo does it appear on the NCAA.com merchandise website? In other words how can the NCAA make money on something they are against, and his response was "its apples to oranges". Are you kidding me NCAA??? That is so wrong. The NCAA cares about one thing $$$ and UND's hockey jersey was voted the best looking jersey among college, pro, and minor league hockey jerseys in the US and Canada. Take the logo away and you don't have a hot seller NCAA.

I thought that the NCAA couldn't take punitive actions against UND, ie the selling of UND merchandise, because of the settlement signed. IF UND goes back on the hot list, then you will see the consequences.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Test.

[Grizzaholic]

Test.

Test what?

[darell1976]

Test what?

SHHHHHHHH no talking during a test.xshhhx

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Test what?

For some reason this thread wouldn't take me to pg. 10 no matter if I was clicking on it, hitting next, leaving and hitting the last post or anything else. Then I posted the test to see if I could break through to the pa. and I made it over.

[darell1976]

Actually, from what everything most Sioux fans have said Carlson would seem to be a shoe in if any UND fans live in his district. But hey, its Douple's fault because we know Fullerton is a stand up guy and the conference has no issues with the Sioux nickname.

By the way, do you know the WAC President's have no issue with the name? If your source is Star2City I would ask yourself just how out of touch he was when posting on the Big Sky situation. Unfortunately for UND fans most college Presidents are academics who fall into the University speech control politically correct way of thinking. Unfortunately for UND fans I think the name is going to need to change for you to be accepted in any D1 conference.

UND just joined the WAC!!!!!

http://www.wacsports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=10100&ATCLID=205159664


Confirmed the addition of three affiliates in various sports for the 2011-12 season: Brigham Young (softball), North Dakota (women's swimming and diving) and Denver (gymnastics).

Again if the WAC had a problem with the name why is UND now a WAC member.

[DJKyR0]

UND just joined the WAC!!!!!

http://www.wacsports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=10100&ATCLID=205159664

Again if the WAC had a problem with the name why is UND now a WAC member.

I haven't laughed that hard in like a week. Perfect reaction.

Seriously though, the whole WAC angle Whioux Nation seems to be infatuated with isn't happening. It's hilarious that some fans think it's a matter of your administration (and by extension the state legislature) deciding they want in.

[NDB]

I don't see why UND doesn't join the SEC or rename itself The Ohio State University - the NCAA never messes with those guys.

[Sec310]

Not going to read through 10 pages of BS, but the point is, the Big Sky doesn't want UND and is doing what they can, to get rid of them. We all know what happened when UND came into the Big Sky, USD was suppose to come along too. But, USD got what they wanted, MVFC and didn't go to the Big Sky. This nickname issue, whether you agree with it or not, gives the Big Sky the a reason to get rid of UND.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Not going to read through 10 pages of BS, but the point is, the Big Sky doesn't want UND and is doing what they can, to get rid of them. We all know what happened when UND came into the Big Sky, USD was suppose to come along too. But, USD got what they wanted, MVFC and didn't go to the Big Sky. This nickname issue, whether you agree with it or not, gives the Big Sky the a reason to get rid of UND.

Agreed, since the story surfaced I thought there was probably an element of the BSC leadership looking for an easy out on this one and ND legislature handed them one.

[sikolec]

UND just joined the WAC!!!!!

http://www.wacsports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=10100&ATCLID=205159664

Again if the WAC had a problem with the name why is UND now a WAC member.

Haha hilarious. Good luck winning your first WAC title. Go Fighting Sioux women's swimming and diving.

On a more serious note, does the ice melt in time for the spring swim and diving season? Or is this a new hybrid ice skating/swiming sport?

http://www.xfellow.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/Ice-Swimming.jpg

[darell1976]

I thought you all would like that. UND was in C-USA before the WAC. UND will not be going to the WAC in other sports...its fun to get Bison fans all reved up; like when NDSU fans wanted them to move to the WAC and MAC its a fun dream that won't happen any time soon.

[clenz]

UND should go without a nickname and just go as UND.

[NDB]

I thought you all would like that. UND was in C-USA before the WAC. UND will not be going to the WAC in other sports...its fun to get Bison fans all reved up; like when NDSU fans wanted them to move to the WAC and MAC its a fun dream that won't happen any time soon.

It's all working out perfectly for UND, isn't it?

[darell1976]

UND should go without a nickname and just go as UND.

There is talk among some Sioux fans to just go without a name, but it won't happen. There is not an athletic school without a nickname of some kind. UND can survive with a new name and logo, and maybe even gain a mascot and not worry about if its PC or not.

[Hammerhead]

Stanford's nickname is just the school's primary color, cardinal. North Dakota Green or Kelly Green doesn't roll off the tounge as easily as Stanford Cardinal.



There is talk among some Sioux fans to just go without a name, but it won't happen. There is not an athletic school without a nickname of some kind. UND can survive with a new name and logo, and maybe even gain a mascot and not worry about if its PC or not.

[bjtheflamesfan]

You have the Dartmouth Big Green and the Syracuse Orange as well (formerly the Orangemen but apparently that was offensive or something)

[UNIFanSince1983]

North Texas Mean Green. They could just be the Mean Green, but that may be offensive too. Heck they already have Notre Dames logo kind of. May as well call themselves the Fighting Irish. The NCAA clearly doesn't have a problem with that nickname.

[darell1976]

http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/206808/

Time to get rid of the Fighting Sioux Law!!


Sen. Mac Schneider, D-Grand Forks, has appealed to the Big Sky Conference to appreciate the difficult position UND is in regarding the Fighting Sioux nickname issue, and to not act against UND’s scheduled admission to the conference at least until the North Dakota Legislature has an opportunity to reconsider the recently enacted nickname law.
He suggested in his letter today to Big Sky Commissioner Douglas Fullerton that the North Dakota Legislature could reconsider the nickname law during a brief session scheduled later this year.

Does NDSU Alum and Bison fan Al Carlson R-Fargo, have something against Sioux sports by creating this bill if he didn't realize the consequences of this...obviously the lawmakers in Grand Forks did.


Schneider was among eight lawmakers of the 12-member Grand Forks delegation who opposed the nickname bill, and the opponents’ arguments in the House and Senate included similar concerns about what the legislation might mean for UND’s jump to Division I athletics, admission to a quality conference and ability to recruit and field quality athletic teams.

The nickname legislation was authored by House Majority Leader Al Carlson, R-Fargo

Schneider said he was surprised to read Carlson’s statement Tuesday that he had not seen Fullerton’s letter, since it was the Big Sky Conference presidents’ response to legislation that the majority leader “had sponsored and shepherded into law.”

Thanks for not having a clue Al on the situation you caused!!

[DJKyR0]

Does NDSU Alum and Bison fan Al Carlson R-Fargo, have something against Sioux sports by creating this bill if he didn't realize the consequences of this...obviously the lawmakers in Grand Forks did.

Yeah, the guy letting Fargo go without permanent flood protection and giving NDSU the finger on state financial support is a "Bison fan." Awfully convenient now that you guys regret selling your soul to him. Don't kid yourself, he's no legitimate fan of NDSU. He's got a diploma that means jack all with the way he's lowballed his alma mater.

Because the UND yahoos continue to ignore this kind of stuff, just a note to the rest of AGS - this isn't some kind of political power-play of NDSU's that this joker is pulling, we haven't claimed Carlson since the nickname law was first proposed.

[darell1976]

Yeah, the guy letting Fargo go without permanent flood protection and giving NDSU the finger on state financial support is a "Bison fan." Awfully convenient now that you guys regret selling your soul to him. Don't kid yourself, he's no legitimate fan of NDSU. He's got a diploma that means jack all with the way he's lowballed his alma mater.

Because the UND yahoos continue to ignore this kind of stuff, just a note to the rest of AGS - this isn't some kind of political power-play of NDSU's that this joker is pulling, we haven't claimed Carlson since the nickname law was first proposed.

So you won't see this guy at the 50 yard line of the Fargodome??xlolx

[DJKyR0]

So you won't see this guy at the 50 yard line of the Fargodome??xlolx

Not without a hefty amount of garbage being thrown at him. LeBron's an Ohio native and look how they regard him.