Mockery of the NCAA? Awaiting SWAC Decision

[TexasTerror]

How is that the SWAC (http://www.swac.org/genrel/052511aaa.html) is unable to immediately formulate a plan regarding the SWAC football championship and the SWAC basketball tournament when its schools are banned from the post-season?

At least one major conference already said that the postseason ban in place will force them to not allow said school in.

The SWAC? Nope - business as usual. What happens if a school banned from the postseason wins the SWAC basketball tournament? Does the league not have an automatic bid qualifier?

How can the SWAC allow the banned teams in football from participating in the SWAC title game? The game is not considered postseason by the NCAA, but it is the ultimate reward. Why reward institutions that do not meet the NCAA parameters for APR? Should the SWAC have separate guidelines from the rest of FCS, who outside of the Ivy, seek postseason play in the form of the NCAA championship?

Time for the SWAC to make a bold statement - a ban from the post season should mean a ban from the SWAC title game and hoops tourney. Just get it done...


The conference office is in the process of evaluating those member institutions that were named in the penalty phase of the APR release, most especially the post-season bans imposed on men's basketball and football teams. The evaluation process will include a decision as to whether or not the NCAA post-season ban will include the SWAC Football Championship Game and/or the SWAC Basketball Tournament. Currently, there is not a specific timeline for completion of the evaluation process.

[TexasTerror]

The NCAA does not count the SWAC title game as part of the postseason... this is an absolute joke.


For JSU, the ban on the postseason may amount to nothing. NCAA officials on a conference call Tuesday afternoon said the postseason ban does not effect the SWAC Championship Game, which the conference plays instead of participating in the Football Championship Subdivision playoffs.

http://blogs.clarionledger.com/jsu/2011/05/24/ncaa-jsu-football-banned-from-postseason/

[JSU02]

What is there to decide? Post season = any game after the completion of the regular season. That would clearly include a conference tournament or champ game.

[JSU02]

The NCAA does not count the SWAC title game as part of the postseason... this is an absolute joke.



http://blogs.clarionledger.com/jsu/2011/05/24/ncaa-jsu-football-banned-from-postseason/
LOL

[TexasTerror]

What is there to decide? Post season = any game after the completion of the regular season. That would clearly include a conference tournament or champ game.

The championship game is not considered the "post season" by the NCAA, which does not make any sense.

And yes, there should not be much to decide regarding the conference tournament - since it would seem likely that a banned team could potentially have severe implications on the conference's automatic bid. Additionally, the SWAC should have known about the penalties/ban before the release came out, so they should of been able to decipher the decision necessary.

[JSU02]

It will be very interesting to see what the SWAC decides...

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The championship game is not considered the "post season" by the NCAA, which does not make any sense.

And yes, there should not be much to decide regarding the conference tournament - since it would seem likely that a banned team could potentially have severe implications on the conference's automatic bid. Additionally, the SWAC should have known about the penalties/ban before the release came out, so they should of been able to decipher the decision necessary.

What about FBS? Does a postseason ban also include championship games like, say, the ACC's, and postseason bowls?

[kdinva]

How is that the SWAC (http://www.swac.org/genrel/052511aaa.html) is unable to immediately formulate a plan regarding........the SWAC basketball tournament when its schools are banned from the post-season?
The SWAC? Nope - business as usual. What happens if a school banned from the postseason wins the SWAC basketball tournament? Does the league not have an automatic bid qualifier?

Time for the SWAC to make a bold statement - a ban from the post season should mean a ban from the SWAC hoops tourney. Just get it done...

I think it was 1987, when Louisville, then a member of the Metro Conference, had an NCAA tourney ban, yet the geniuses in the Metro Conf. allowed Crum's bunch in the conf. tourney. They won it, no other team in the Metro was chosen for the NCAA Tourney field as an at-large entry, hence, no Metro Conf. team was in the 1987 NCAA tourney.
Is that what the SWAC wants to potentially happen?

[JSU02]

As if the NCAA would ever give an FBS school a post season APR ban, LOL

[TexasTerror]

Another article mentioning specifically the Louisiana situation...


None of the eight can be considered national athletic powers, and their penalties are as much a statement about resources as they are about poor academic performance. ULM has by far the lowest budget of the state’s FBS (formerly Division I-A) schools, and Southern and Grambling are at the bottom in funding among the state’s FCS schools.

http://www.sportsnola.com/sports/sports-blogs/dan-mcdonald/572685-lack-of-funding-leads-to-apr-embarassment-in-louisiana.html


What about FBS? Does a postseason ban also include championship games like, say, the ACC's, and postseason bowls?

Not sure - has a FBS school been banned from the football postseason? I know ULM in the Sun Belt has been told they will not be able to participate in that league's basketball tournament.


I think it was 1987, when Louisville, then a member of the Metro Conference, had an NCAA tourney ban, yet the geniuses in the Metro Conf. allowed Crum's bunch in the conf. tourney. They won it, no other team in the Metro was chosen for the NCAA Tourney field as an at-large entry, hence, no Metro Conf. team was in the 1987 NCAA tourney. Is that what the SWAC wants to potentially happen?

That is exactly my point... the NCAA told the Southland a few years ago that if Central Arkansas was declared football champion, they would have to forfeit their automatic bid into the playoffs. This is the same case. The SWAC should be able to make a decision on hoops IMMEDIATELY. This football thing needs to be considered in the same regard...

[JSU02]

And that exactly what did happen to JSU in in 2009 because of our APR issues. JSU won the OVC title on the field with the league's best record, but the OVC voted to make us ineligible. Had it not done so, the OVC would have made no post season appearance that year. I don't see what there is for the SWAC presidents to think about.

[citdog]

i would have thought that hbcu's would be in the vanguard against plessey vs ferguson type situations.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

That is exactly my point... the NCAA told the Southland a few years ago that if Central Arkansas was declared football champion, they would have to forfeit their automatic bid into the playoffs. This is the same case. The SWAC should be able to make a decision on hoops IMMEDIATELY. This football thing needs to be considered in the same regard...

That most decidedly is not the same case. The NCAA can clearly say that a school cannot compete in the NCAA-sanctioned playoff system for FCS. It's less clear if the NCAA can say to a conference that they can't allow their school to compete in a conference championship, or a postseason non-NCAA-sanctioned exhibition game like a bowl.

In basketball, the championship is an NCAA sanctioned-one. So, if an ineligible team is invited to the postseason tourney and wins, their autobid would then be forfeited (unless that conference has something in their bylaws to will an autobid to the runner-up, or something). An NCAA postseason ban is an NCAA postseason ban - no NCAA's for you. But does it cover the postseason NIT or any of the other exhibition basketball tourneys?

I think the answer is the SWAC can do what it wants. Which is bad news for the NCAA.

[JSU02]

That most decidedly is not the same case. The NCAA can clearly say that a school cannot compete in the NCAA-sanctioned playoff system for FCS. It's less clear if the NCAA can say to a conference that they can't allow their school to compete in a conference championship, or a postseason non-NCAA-sanctioned exhibition game like a bowl.

Well we know that the NCAA can ban post season bowl appearances, as is currently the case with Southern Cal. But a conference championship whose winner has no where to go? That is kinda nebulous. If I were a president of an eligible SWAC school I would certainly vote to ban, as it would increase the chances that my school would make the game.

[FCS Go!]

This is yet another good reason for the SWAC not participate in the playoffs. Their myopic navel-gazing continues to payoff.

[DFW HOYA]

As if the NCAA would ever give an FBS school a post season APR ban, LOL

Don't be so sure. UConn's APR numbers aren't getting any better this year with Kemba Walker leaving and Jamal Coombs-McDaniel leaving under duress. The next steps are a post-season ban, and I'm sure that's another factor weighing in Jim Calhoun's "stay or retire" decision, along with heavier NCAA penalties expected and a new president coming to Storrs.

[JSU02]

Don't be so sure. UConn's APR numbers aren't getting any better this year with Kemba Walker leaving and Jamal Coombs-McDaniel leaving under duress. The next steps are a post-season ban, and I'm sure that's another factor weighing in Jim Calhoun's "stay or retire" decision, along with heavier NCAA penalties expected and a new president coming to Storrs.

I read about that, but I would not be surprised if the NCAA searched and searched until it found some reason to grant them a waiver. However it would be an excellent chance for the NCAA to show it can enforce rules equitably, but I am not holding my breathe.

Edit: UConn is only getting an "Occasion One" penalty, so is in no danger of a post season ban for at least two more years.

[DFW HOYA]

Edit: UConn is only getting an "Occasion One" penalty, so is in no danger of a post season ban for at least two more years.

The infractions committee will probably get to a post-season ban before the APR folks do.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/news?slug=ys-uconnphone032509

[OhioHen]

The championship game is not considered the "post season" by the NCAA, which does not make any sense.



The NCAA does not consider the Big XII, SEC, ACC, C-USA, etc. championship games to be post-season. Why would the SWAC be any different in that regard?

[WestCoastAggie]

The NCAA does not consider the Big XII, SEC, ACC, C-USA, etc. championship games to be post-season. Why would the SWAC be any different in that regard?

Exactly. It's really much ado about nothing from the NCAA's standpoint. However, the SWAC CCEO's should vote to keep all their teams with post-season bans from participating in the SCG and/or the SWAC Basketball Tournaments (depending on which specific team earned the ban). The presidents have to remember their main objectives of educating and graduating students. To do otherwise would undermine this mission.

[TexasTerror]

The NCAA does not consider the Big XII, SEC, ACC, C-USA, etc. championship games to be post-season. Why would the SWAC be any different in that regard?

Valid point, but any game considered to be after the conclusion of the regular season should count as postseason. It is clearly obvious that the Big XII, SEC, ACC, C-USA, SWAC championships are games that occur after the NCAA maximum of games played is met. The NCAA obviously has a loophole that in this case or potential cases with schools in the other 'championship games' to actually have a postseason contest, despite a 'ban'.


Exactly. It's really much ado about nothing from the NCAA's standpoint. However, the SWAC CCEO's should vote to keep all their teams with post-season bans from participating in the SCG and the SWAC Basketball Tournaments. The presidents have to remember their main objectives of educating and graduating students. To do otherwise would undermine this mission.

Correct... :)

[813Jag]

Southern football nor basketball would participate in the postseason anyway this season. The situation with the basketball program totally got out of hand, looks like they taking steps to improve the situation.

[TexasTerror]

Southern football nor basketball would participate in the postseason anyway this season. The situation with the basketball program totally got out of hand, looks like they taking steps to improve the situation.

Are you stating that Southern's athletic administration has already indicated that the school will not participate in the SWAC Championship Game, if they win the league's West Division? Same with the basketball team and the SWAC tournament?

The league has not indicated as such.

[DFW HOYA]

The SWAC has many challenges, not the least of which is continuity. Of the ten presidents of the member schools, only one has been there longer than three years. "Interim" president and "interim" athletic directors are commonplace at the schools, which makes it very difficult to effect change.

SWAC schools, more than most public schools, are extremely dependent on state aid--they have comparatively very little in alumni giving and endowments reflect it. I was surprised at an online listing of endowments among the schools: $1.4 million at Mississippi Valley, $1.9 at UA-Pine Bluff, $3.9 at Grambling State, $4.4 at Alcorn, $6 million at Texas Southern...not much to go on, and when you need to invest in tutors and compliance officers to get APR numbers up, that's money that takes away from day to day expenses. To put that $1.4 million endowment at Mississippi Valley into perspective--a school like Michigan returns as much endowment revenue in two hours as the Valley returns in one year.

Make no mistake, HBCU's have a place in higher education, but the NCAA is trying to send the message that schools must take the responsibility to graduate--and not just enroll-- scholarship athletes as a condition of Division I membership. It's a bitter lesson to lose scholarships and post-season opportunities but one which will help these schools (and the students) going forward.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Valid point, but any game considered to be after the conclusion of the regular season should count as postseason. It is clearly obvious that the Big XII, SEC, ACC, C-USA, SWAC championships are games that occur after the NCAA maximum of games played is met. The NCAA obviously has a loophole that in this case or potential cases with schools in the other 'championship games' to actually have a postseason contest, despite a 'ban'.



Correct... :)

How is that a post season game when it is run by the conference to determine their champion? It is not considered an NCAA championship...it's how the SWAC determines their champion. Am I missing something here?

[813Jag]

Are you stating that Southern's athletic administration has already indicated that the school will not participate in the SWAC Championship Game, if they win the league's West Division? Same with the basketball team and the SWAC tournament?

The league has not indicated as such.
I'm stating that neither team well be successful this season. The basketball team has a chance to improve but there's no way the football team wins the division this year. I'm more worried about the scholly reduction and the practice time reduction.

[TexasTerror]

How is that a post season game when it is run by the conference to determine their champion? It is not considered an NCAA championship...it's how the SWAC determines their champion. Am I missing something here?

There are limitations on the amount of games that can be played during the course of the season. At the FBS level, it is 12. At FCS, it is 11 (except in those years in which there is an extra week between Labor Day and Thanksgiving). Throw in the Hawaii exception as well.

Once you hit that limit, the next game should definitely be considered postseason - whether it is the Gridiron Classic, ACC Championship, SWAC Championship, bowl game or NCAA playoffs.


I'm stating that neither team well be successful this season. The basketball team has a chance to improve but there's no way the football team wins the division this year. I'm more worried about the scholly reduction and the practice time reduction.

You never know... that is why the games are played! One of these No. 16 seeds from the SWAC may end up beating a No. 1 seed. You never know! ;)

[wheatstraw78]

The SWAC has many challenges, not the least of which is continuity. Of the ten presidents of the member schools, only one has been there longer than three years. "Interim" president and "interim" athletic directors are commonplace at the schools, which makes it very difficult to effect change.

SWAC schools, more than most public schools, are extremely dependent on state aid--they have comparatively very little in alumni giving and endowments reflect it. I was surprised at an online listing of endowments among the schools: $1.4 million at Mississippi Valley, $1.9 at UA-Pine Bluff, $3.9 at Grambling State, $4.4 at Alcorn, $6 million at Texas Southern...not much to go on, and when you need to invest in tutors and compliance officers to get APR numbers up, that's money that takes away from day to day expenses. To put that $1.4 million endowment at Mississippi Valley into perspective--a school like Michigan returns as much endowment revenue in two hours as the Valley returns in one year.

Make no mistake, HBCU's have a place in higher education, but the NCAA is trying to send the message that schools must take the responsibility to graduate--and not just enroll-- scholarship athletes as a condition of Division I membership. It's a bitter lesson to lose scholarships and post-season opportunities but one which will help these schools (and the students) going forward.

Excellent, positive comments DFW HOYA. By far the most fair and balanced response that I've read on this subject.

[superman7515]

USC is not allowed to participate in the Pac 12 Championship Game, should they win their division, this season because of their post-season ban.

[superman7515]

Source: USC's appeal to NCAA denied (http://sports.espn.go.com/los-angeles/ncf/news/story?id=6589820)


USC has been notified by the NCAA infractions appeals committee that all penalties and findings against the athletic department have been upheld, according to a person close to the situation.

USC had pointed in its appeal to precedent as a reason that their penalties were excessive. But the appeals committee stated that those cases were not directly applicable, the source said.

USC will lose 30 scholarships over the next three years and won't be eligible to play in this year's Pac-12 title game or a bowl game.

[mikebigg]

Are you stating that Southern's athletic administration has already indicated that the school will not participate in the SWAC Championship Game, if they win the league's West Division? Same with the basketball team and the SWAC tournament?

The league has not indicated as such.

Any talk of postseason ban in football is moot... There is no post-season football for the SWAC!

[Jaguar79]

Any talk of postseason ban in football is moot... There is no post-season football for the SWAC!

Exactly ... hence no need for the rest of FCS to worry about it. The SWAC will do what it has always done ... what's best for ITSELF.

The title of this thread doesn't even make sense .... if the SWAC Title game is not a NCAA postseason game, how can the SWAC "mock" the NCAA anyway? Someone trying to dramatize the situation .... You would think forgoing that multiple week excuse at the end of the year would do that already.

[TexasTerror]

Any talk of postseason ban in football is moot... There is no post-season football for the SWAC!

The SWAC championship game not being considered postseason is an evident loophole in the NCAA by-laws. Perhaps the NCAA needs to investigate closing that one. As is typically the case with the NCAA, they see loopholes when they are made visible and they move to close them.

The SWAC would be bringing embarrassment on themselves if they show no regard for the NCAA's APR punishments in both hoops and football.


The title of this thread doesn't even make sense .... if the SWAC Title game is not a NCAA postseason game, how can the SWAC "mock" the NCAA anyway? Someone trying to dramatize the situation .... You would think forgoing that multiple week excuse at the end of the year would do that already.

The SWAC is the only league in America that can not make immediate judgement on how it will proceed in light of the NCAA's APR punishments. The fact that they can not do that is a mockery of the process... and I hope the NCAA moves swiftly to close that 'loophole' with the SWAC title game and postseason in the next legislative cycle.

[mikebigg]

It is a regular season game... simple as that. Try to make of it what you will, but it is a regular season game to determine our conference championship.

Don't like it huh? Tough!

[citdog]

It is a regular season game... simple as that. Try to make of it what you will, but it is a regular season game to determine our conference championship.

Don't like it huh? Tough!

So who is voluntary reversing Plessey vs Ferguson???

http://boundbymywords2.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/080121-mlk-vmed-6awidec.jpg

[WestCoastAggie]

So who is voluntary reversing Plessey vs Ferguson???

http://boundbymywords2.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/080121-mlk-vmed-6awidec.jpg

This has nothing to do with race or Plessey vs. Ferguson. They are simply doing the same thing other conferences have done with their powers as given to them as NCAA members. If anything, they are exercising their choice to control their own destiny just as the IVY League or BCS Conferences have.

This wouldn't happen if it wasn't for the 1984 Supreme Court Case that the CFA brought against the NCAA regarding the right to control their TV rights. The SWAC has, just as the SEC, ACC or the CAA have the ability to create a Championship Game for TV revenue.

[citdog]

This has nothing to do with race or Plessey vs. Ferguson. They are simply doing the same thing other conferences have done with their powers as given to them as NCAA members. If anything, they are exercising their choice to control their own destiny just as the IVY League or BCS Conferences have.

This wouldn't happen if it wasn't for the 1984 Supreme Court Case that the CFA brought against the NCAA regarding the right to control their TV rights. The SWAC has, just as the SEC, ACC or the CAA have the ability to create a Championship Game for TV revenue.

is the swac not "separate but equal"?

[WestCoastAggie]

They are just like all of the other FCS Conferences. Their members have the ability to be selected for the FCS Playoffs if they qualify and the SWAC has the ability to apply for a Playoff Auto Bid. If anything, they are simply taking advantage of the rules the NCAA has in place.

[TexasTerror]

They are just like all of the other FCS Conferences. Their members have the ability to be selected for the FCS Playoffs if they qualify and the SWAC has the ability to apply for a Playoff Auto Bid. If anything, they are simply taking advantage of the rules the NCAA has in place.

The SWAC championship game should be considered a postseason contest - just like any conference championship game (whether at the FBS, FCS, Div II or Div III levels). How can an opportunity earned on the field during the course of the regular season not equate to being dubbed a postseason appearance?

Any playoff at the Division I, Division II and Division III is a postseason and those are like the title games, opportunities earned on the field.

I have a feeling the SWAC situation will not get much 'run', but if a BCS conference school like a Texas A&M or a West Virginia - if they were banned from the postseason in football - earned a spot in a conference title game, it'd raise tons of flags.

If the NCAA puts a priority on academics, they would fix this situation...

[TexasTerror]

Came up with a new penalty for Southern...

When they and/or Grambling are in APR violation and postseason bans are handed out - they should instead be banned from television games. If this includes the Bayou Classic, so be it - but it is the only equal penalty for a university (or universities) that get a slap on the wrist and can avoid the postseason being taken away from them....

[SUjagTILLiDIE]

Came up with a new penalty for Southern...

When they and/or Grambling are in APR violation and postseason bans are handed out - they should instead be banned from television games. If this includes the Bayou Classic, so be it - but it is the only equal penalty for a university (or universities) that get a slap on the wrist and can avoid the postseason being taken away from them....

xlolx This dude wants the NCAA to single out and give SU or Grambling a seperate penalty.. You are sad .

[TexasTerror]

xlolx This dude wants the NCAA to single out and give SU or Grambling a seperate penalty.. You are sad .

The NCAA's penalty is going to be flat out ignored... likely... by the SWAC and the member institutions.

Other schools have had television privileges taken away. I'll be honest - stole the idea from a McNeese fan, who also suggested that the Jaguars play two games at McNeese in Lake Charles too. ;)

[pokefan02]

We don't need our strength of schedule weakened

[3rd Coast Tiger]

Strength of Schedule weekend? I never heard of it. Is it closer to Memorial Day or Labor Day weekend?

[blaw0203]

The NCAA's penalty is going to be flat out ignored... likely... by the SWAC and the member institutions.

Other schools have had television privileges taken away. I'll be honest - stole the idea from a McNeese fan, who also suggested that the Jaguars play two games at McNeese in Lake Charles too. ;)

You're just jealous of Southern's tv deals, being a hater is not a good look!

[TexasTerror]

You're just jealous of Southern's tv deals, being a hater is not a good look!

No... not at all.

I just feel if Southern and the SWAC are going to skirt around an NCAA loophole (which they likely will not fix until a BCS level team gets into their league title game and wins it despite a postseason ban), that perhaps the NCAA needs to throw a new curveball at the situation...

Teams would really give a darn about APR and its "slap on the wrist" penalties if TV was involved - whether that meant a Big 10 school or a SWAC school.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

No... not at all.

I just feel if Southern and the SWAC are going to skirt around an NCAA loophole (which they likely will not fix until a BCS level team gets into their league title game and wins it despite a postseason ban), that perhaps the NCAA needs to throw a new curveball at the situation...

Teams would really give a darn about APR and its "slap on the wrist" penalties if TV was involved - whether that meant a Big 10 school or a SWAC school.

If a Big 10 school misses a TV date, it means one less ivory backscratcher for the AD and one less tattoo for its player.

If Grambling and/or Southern miss the "Bayou Classic", sports might not get funded for the entire year.

It's likely that a TV ban would affect the Big Ten not at all - since they can afford to take the "long view" - while decimating the "little guys".

[TexasTerror]

If a Big 10 school misses a TV date, it means one less ivory backscratcher for the AD and one less tattoo for its player.

If Grambling and/or Southern miss the "Bayou Classic", sports might not get funded for the entire year.

It's likely that a TV ban would affect the Big Ten not at all - since they can afford to take the "long view" - while decimating the "little guys".

Do you feel the NCAA needs to make sure their penalties have some weight? It seems that some schools where what are deemed 'postseason appearances' are not possible (i.e. the SWAC), that the postseason ban means absolutely nothing in football. Would it be smart for the NCAA to add the SWAC Championship Game and Gridiron Classic (if that ever came back) to the list?

While I understand your point comparing the 'big dogs' to the 'little guys', what happens if a football team was barred from television appearances for the whole year? I recall reading in the Texas A&M's blog that they get a certain percentage more in television monies for playing on ESPN/ABC compared to some of the lesser affiliates in the Big 12 agreement. That may have changed with the new rules, perhaps...

[3rd Coast Tiger]

The NCAA is so pissed with the SWAC that they're about to put Ohio State on probation.

[TexasTerror]

The NCAA is so pissed with the SWAC that they're about to put Ohio State on probation.

What was the old saying about Cleveland State and NCAA sanctions? LOL!

[3rd Coast Tiger]

What was the old saying about Cleveland State and NCAA sanctions? LOL!

It went...

"The NCAA is so mad at Kentucky, it gave Sam Houston State two more years of probation."

[blaw0203]

Do you feel the NCAA needs to make sure their penalties have some weight? It seems that some schools where what are deemed 'postseason appearances' are not possible (i.e. the SWAC), that the postseason ban means absolutely nothing in football. Would it be smart for the NCAA to add the SWAC Championship Game and Gridiron Classic (if that ever came back) to the list?

While I understand your point comparing the 'big dogs' to the 'little guys', what happens if a football team was barred from television appearances for the whole year? I recall reading in the Texas A&M's blog that they get a certain percentage more in television monies for playing on ESPN/ABC compared to some of the lesser affiliates in the Big 12 agreement. That may have changed with the new rules, perhaps...

Banning the teams from post season play is punishment enough. The SWAC championship game is post season play. In the case of the SWAC teams, the NCAA should ban those teams from participating in the SWAC championship game.

[Panther88]

xlolx 2 funny.

Won't happen. Good luck in the postseason lol Jags and Tigers. xhurrayx xthumbsupx

[WestCoastAggie]

Banning the teams from post season play is punishment enough. The SWAC championship game is post season play. In the case of the SWAC teams, the NCAA should ban those teams from participating in the SWAC championship game.

Once again,

According to the NCAA ByLaws, The SWAC Championship Game is considered a REGULAR SEASON game. This is due to the fact that the SWAC has less than 12 conference members fielding Football teams. For the SCG to be considered a post season game, the SWAC needs two more members who field football teams to increase their membership having squads from 10 to 12.

Therefore, the NCAA cannot ban Southern & Jackson State from the SCG unless they change this rule.

[mikebigg]

Came up with a new penalty for Southern...

When they and/or Grambling are in APR violation and postseason bans are handed out - they should instead be banned from television games. If this includes the Bayou Classic, so be it - but it is the only equal penalty for a university (or universities) that get a slap on the wrist and can avoid the postseason being taken away from them....

The Hate and Envy really shows with this post!

[mikebigg]

No... not at all.

I just feel if Southern and the SWAC are going to skirt around an NCAA loophole (which they likely will not fix until a BCS level team gets into their league title game and wins it despite a postseason ban), that perhaps the NCAA needs to throw a new curveball at the situation...

Teams would really give a darn about APR and its "slap on the wrist" penalties if TV was involved - whether that meant a Big 10 school or a SWAC school.

What make you think they don't give a damn now? How do you know steps aren't being taken to prevent low scores in the future? You don't... but things are being done at all SWAC schools to improve our APR numbers. There are other conferences with APR issues...In fact, didn't Sam Houston have some low scores in some sports? You need to focus your attention on your school and get over the fact that the SWAC DGAS about the playoffs...that's the real reason you got dem bloomers in a wad.

[TexasTerror]

Banning the teams from post season play is punishment enough. The SWAC championship game is post season play. In the case of the SWAC teams, the NCAA should ban those teams from participating in the SWAC championship game.

Correct... but the NCAA does not presently view the SWAC championship game as postseason - though it, like the other championship games at the FBS level, are earned based on regular reason results and take place following the conclusion of what is deemed the regular season.


What make you think they don't give a damn now? How do you know steps aren't being taken to prevent low scores in the future? You don't... but things are being done at all SWAC schools to improve our APR numbers. There are other conferences with APR issues...In fact, didn't Sam Houston have some low scores in some sports? You need to focus your attention on your school and get over the fact that the SWAC DGAS about the playoffs...that's the real reason you got dem bloomers in a wad.

Steps are being taken at the schools, which are also very grossly underfunded for the Division I level and may still struggle... but my concern is the penalty.

The penalty for SWAC schools means nothing in football since the SWAC title game is counted as a regular season contest. It is just a 'slap on the wrist' for the SWAC schools because of this.

[mikebigg]

Oh well... hope you get over it.

[TSUalum05]

No... not at all.

I just feel if Southern and the SWAC are going to skirt around an NCAA loophole (which they likely will not fix until a BCS level team gets into their league title game and wins it despite a postseason ban), that perhaps the NCAA needs to throw a new curveball at the situation...

Teams would really give a darn about APR and its "slap on the wrist" penalties if TV was involved - whether that meant a Big 10 school or a SWAC school.

This would be unfair as all get out. There are many FCS programs without any TV deals...How would you punish schools/conferences without TV deals? Then you have to create another scenario that if a school doesn't not have a TV Deal, then you (insert a punishment). Then if a school that doesn't have a TV deal, (insert your punishment), then you (inset a different punishment), etc.

So in the end, this would be something hurting FCS programs only.

[3rd Coast Tiger]

This would be unfair as all get out. There are many FCS programs without any TV deals...How would you punish schools/conferences without TV deals? Then you have to create another scenario that if a school doesn't not have a TV Deal, then you (insert a punishment). Then if a school that doesn't have a TV deal, (insert your punishment), then you (inset a different punishment), etc.

So in the end, this would be something hurting FCS programs only.

I say the next contingency should be if a school doesn't have a TV deal, they should not allow concession stands to operate at the stadium during all home games and you can't bring in outside food (not even WATER). xbowx

[Panther88]

I'm sure the SWAC COPs will address what's what, as required. And, ironically, none of us here, well, except for a few privvys who are deeeeeeply connected w/ their respective COP member ;), will indeed have input. :-)

The SWAC and its member institutions, again, will be a-okay. The SWAC has endured legalized segregation, WWI, WWII, The Korean conflict, Vietnam, legal segregation xlolx, and the recent middle-eastern fiasco. What would cause one to think this lil' bitty miniscule situation would cause the SWAC to sway?

Right. Exercising the native Texan drawl heard around these parts: "It ain't gonna' happ'un buddy-guy!" :D

[Jaguar79]

This would be unfair as all get out. There are many FCS programs without any TV deals...How would you punish schools/conferences without TV deals? Then you have to create another scenario that if a school doesn't not have a TV Deal, then you (insert a punishment). Then if a school that doesn't have a TV deal, (insert your punishment), then you (inset a different punishment), etc.

So in the end, this would be something hurting FCS programs only.

Well, the NCAA could always ban the use of the perscribed booster club for FCS schools too. That would be okay, right TT? I mean, that's something "extra" that most FCS clubs have. The NCAA should go that way too OR is it a possibility that the NCAA has little control over the booster clubs except in how they fund the schools and likewise very little control over television, which makes that point equally as dumb!

Fact is until the NCAA gets off it's behind and does anything (and judging from the state of the FCS Playoffs, good luck with that), the SWAC will do what's best for it and every other FCS conference should do the same.

[Panther88]

I think this is a non-issue. Worthy of internet speak but it's still a non-issue as far as the SWAC COP is concerned.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The biggest question I had about the SWAC Championship game was the following: how come USC had a ban in playing in the inaugural Pac-12 championship game, but there wasn't a similar ban for the SWAC?

The answer is that the USC ban came from the committee on infractions, which can levy individual sanctions on a school (such as a ban on championship game play). This is what happened for USC, who was found to have committed violations.

According to the NCAA - whom I wrote on the matter - this is different than the penalty structure of the APR, which doesn't define the SWAC's championship game as "postseason play" (though the SWAC championship game is indeed listed as an "exemption" to the season-ending games as Bylaw 17.9.5(d), which would seem to imply a "postseason" game).

More importantly, though, there needs to be a more sane APR measurement for HBCU's. Put simply, I think that as long as team graduation rates are in line with the graduation rate of the graduating class (divided by sex), HBCU's should not be subject to any APR penalties.

[Panther88]

More importantly, though, there needs to be a more sane APR measurement for HBCU's. Put simply, I think that as long as team graduation rates are in line with the graduation rate of the graduating class (divided by sex), HBCU's should not be subject to any APR penalties.

Considering recruitment and graduation trends, I agree. However, this line of thought won't be popular for those who are NOT in the know w/ regards to recruitment/retention trends @ HBCUs. Those skull-busting perfect SAT/ACT scores won't be bountiful on campus liken to those readily found @ Yale, Harvard, MIT, et al. Also, the missions of each, through the years, have vastly differed.

[TexasTerror]

Oh well... hope you get over it.

I hope all schools have glowing APR results... but if that is not a priority for an institution of higher learning's athletic department, well - hope they shut it down.


This would be unfair as all get out. There are many FCS programs without any TV deals...How would you punish schools/conferences without TV deals? Then you have to create another scenario that if a school doesn't not have a TV Deal, then you (insert a punishment). Then if a school that doesn't have a TV deal, (insert your punishment), then you (inset a different punishment), etc.

So in the end, this would be something hurting FCS programs only.

Again - same thing as before. You bring up an unfair situation. Isn't that the case with the SWAC championship game not counting as a postseason contest, allowing schools from the SWAC to 'hop' and 'skip' from an NCAA loophole when a postseason ban is in place for SWAC football schools? Teams and particularly coaches should not be rewarded for their school's inability to graduate student-athletes.


I'm sure the SWAC COPs will address what's what, as required. And, ironically, none of us here, well, except for a few privvys who are deeeeeeply connected w/ their respective COP member ;), will indeed have input. :-)

The SWAC Council of Presidents would be pretty ballsy to actually make a major step in handling an NCAA loophole on their own without foresight from the NCAA to to do it. I'd be giving them kudos up the wazoo!


The biggest question I had about the SWAC Championship game was the following: how come USC had a ban in playing in the inaugural Pac-12 championship game, but there wasn't a similar ban for the SWAC?

The answer is that the USC ban came from the committee on infractions, which can levy individual sanctions on a school (such as a ban on championship game play). This is what happened for USC, who was found to have committed violations.

According to the NCAA - whom I wrote on the matter - this is different than the penalty structure of the APR, which doesn't define the SWAC's championship game as "postseason play" (though the SWAC championship game is indeed listed as an "exemption" to the season-ending games as Bylaw 17.9.5(d), which would seem to imply a "postseason" game).

Correct. There is not "fair play" with these rules since not all schools are banned from receiving their postseason bid, despite a ban handed down from the NCAA.


More importantly, though, there needs to be a more sane APR measurement for HBCU's. Put simply, I think that as long as team graduation rates are in line with the graduation rate of the graduating class (divided by sex), HBCU's should not be subject to any APR penalties.

That would be a slap in the face to the HBCUs and I doubt the athletic and academic administrators would be against being held to lesser standards than other universities.

[TSUalum05]

This is neither here or there and I know this is off topic but I just noticed that you stole your idea from someone else without given them credit until you were called out. I wonder what other ideas you steal from other authors without giving them credit.


The NCAA's penalty is going to be flat out ignored... likely... by the SWAC and the member institutions.

Other schools have had television privileges taken away. I'll be honest - stole the idea from a McNeese fan



Again - same thing as before. You bring up an unfair situation. Isn't that the case with the SWAC championship game not counting as a postseason contest, allowing schools from the SWAC to 'hop' and 'skip' from an NCAA loophole when a postseason ban is in place for SWAC football schools? Teams and particularly coaches should not be rewarded for their school's inability to graduate student-athletes.

Once again, attacking TV revenue would be hurting FCS programs only. How is the SWAC championship game not counting as a postseason contest unfair to anyone outside the SWAC. That game has no bearing on anything within the FCS community.

[3rd Coast Tiger]

Again - same thing as before. You bring up an unfair situation. Isn't that the case with the SWAC championship game not counting as a postseason contest, allowing schools from the SWAC to 'hop' and 'skip' from an NCAA loophole when a postseason ban is in place for SWAC football schools? Teams and particularly coaches should not be rewarded for their school's inability to graduate student-athletes.

If it pains you as much as you pour into your threads then why don't you call your local congressman and demand for an investigation. Pouting about it on a message board is sickening and gets you no where. Start a facebook page, do something besides the futile stuff you've done here and elsewhere.

[TexasTerror]

Once again, attacking TV revenue would be hurting FCS programs only. How is the SWAC championship game not counting as a postseason contest unfair to anyone outside the SWAC. That game has no bearing on anything within the FCS community.

The game does have bearing - because if the NCAA is not going to hold to its postseason ban - it shows FCS and FBS schools that there are means to skirt around the APR and punishments for APR. APR is becoming a critical vessel in which the NCAA acknowledges that academics is critical to the mission of the association.


If it pains you as much as you pour into your threads then why don't you call your local congressman and demand for an investigation. Pouting about it on a message board is sickening and gets you no where. Start a facebook page, do something besides the futile stuff you've done here and elsewhere.

The NCAA has shown in the past their ability to close loopholes and bringing attention on this board, actually does carry some weight with the NCAA since committee members and other people associated with individuals that make decisions in the NCAA are affiliated with this board.

[3rd Coast Tiger]

The NCAA has shown in the past their ability to close loopholes and bringing attention on this board, actually does carry some weight with the NCAA since committee members and other people associated with individuals that make decisions in the NCAA are affiliated with this board.

Gotcha, which NCAA dept. is responsible for scouring fan messageboards? Also, can you provide examples of such?

[TSUalum05]

The game does have bearing - because if the NCAA is not going to hold to its postseason ban - it shows FCS and FBS schools that there are means to skirt around the APR and punishments for APR. APR is becoming a critical vessel in which the NCAA acknowledges that academics is critical to the mission of the association.

Previous posts have indicated that it's not a postseason game, so how does it have a bearing? Its not considered the NCAA SWAC Championship game or the FCS SWAC Championship Game or the National SWAC Championship game, it's considered the SWAC Championship game so in my opinion, it does not have any bearing on the NCAA, or FCS community...Many FCS and FBS schools skirt around APR, and NCAA guidelines because they have the $$$$ too do so. In the end, our discussion goes back to attacking TV as a form of penalization for the APR. Which is currently not in place for the APR punishment, a post season ban is in affect so that's saying SU and GSU are not eligible for the FCS playoffs. They can very well still participate in the playoffs any year if they choose to forgo the nationally televised Bayou Classic and obtain a at-large bid, so their punishment is justified...Because you never know if they are going to disband the Bayou Classic.

Once again, attacking TV revenue would be hurting FCS programs only, and how many programs or conferences have national TV revenue in the FCS? Basically, this suggestion would single out and only punish the SWAC or the MEAC for APR purposes. And the MEAC participates in the NCAA postseason.

I'm no longer entertaining this conversation with you because we will both disagree with each other on attacking the TV revenue. Plus, you stole this idea from someone else without giving them credit in the first instance. All you had to do was state "on so and so board, this fan came up with the following," instead you said "came up with the..."

[TexasTerror]

Previous posts have indicated that it's not a postseason game, so how does it have a bearing? Its not considered the NCAA SWAC Championship game or the FCS SWAC Championship Game or the National SWAC Championship game, it's considered the SWAC Championship game so in my opinion, it does not have any bearing on the NCAA, or FCS community...

The comparison was made to the Pac-12 title game. What about other championship games at the FBS level? What happens if the FCS-level Gridiron Classic returns? All title games need to be held to the same standard and they should be all designated as postseason contests.

Are you telling me that outside of the NCAA interpretation, that you would consider the SWAC Championship game not a postseason game?


Many FCS and FBS schools skirt around APR, and NCAA guidelines because they have the $$$$ too do so. In the end, our discussion goes back to attacking TV as a form of penalization for the APR. Which is currently not in place for the APR punishment, a post season ban is in affect so that's saying SU and GSU are not eligible for the FCS playoffs. They can very well still participate in the playoffs any year if they choose to forgo the nationally televised Bayou Classic and obtain a at-large bid, so their punishment is justified...Because you never know if they are going to disband the Bayou Classic.

The TV revenue was just brought up as a side note - that if you are not going to hurt these schools competitively, you may as well find something else - especially since other schools have been barred from TV appearances in the past. I do not agree with it, so do not see how we disagree with each other on the subject.

As far as schools skirting around APR and they have the money to do - sure, they have more academic tutors, etc. - but a kid still needs to graduate, right?

Are the goals of HBCU not to graduate kids? I know one HBCU alumni president said their school was "not in the business" of graduating kids, but that's neither here or there.

APR is the same formula for all schools and I do not see why the NCAA needs to make any special formula for the HBCUs - because that would be a slap in the face to the HBCUs.

The argument that HBCUs take in kids that other schools would not is an interesting note, because don't all kids at the Div I and Div II level still need to be cleared by the NCAA Clearinghouse (Eligibility Center)? If a kid is not going to be eligible at one school per the Clearinghouse, they certainly won't be eligible at a SWAC school.


Once again, attacking TV revenue would be hurting FCS programs only, and how many programs or conferences have national TV revenue in the FCS? Basically, this suggestion would single out and only punish the SWAC or the MEAC for APR purposes. And the MEAC participates in the NCAA postseason.

I'm no longer entertaining this conversation with you because we will both disagree with each other on attacking the TV revenue.

Again - I am using TV revenues, not as something I agree with - but because it has been done in the past and until the NCAA fills the loophole, I would hope that if schools are going to not be punished properly for APR, that they do find something that makes an impact on the schools.


Gotcha, which NCAA dept. is responsible for scouring fan messageboards? Also, can you provide examples of such?

There's no department... but you obviously failed to read my post.

LFN already fired off the first e-mail (if there were not ones before that) which posed the question to the NCAA folks. When the NCAA gets e-mails, they review things. When multiple people question something, they definitely look into it. At SHSU, we know this - the Rhett Bomar incident at Oklahoma got brought into the public spectrum on TexAgs and then somehow got in the NCAA's hands. Hmmm...

[TSUalum05]

The comparison was made to the Pac-12 title game. What about other championship games at the FBS level? What happens if the FCS-level Gridiron Classic returns? All title games need to be held to the same standard and they should be all designated as postseason contests.

Are you telling me that outside of the NCAA interpretation, that you would consider the SWAC Championship game not a postseason game?


The PAC 12 has 12 teams therefore that's why they will now have a conference championship. FBS is a different beast and you cannot compare it with FCS. Plus the SWAC only has 10 teams, not enough to have a conference tourney so by NCAA standards, its an extra game during the season.

The NCAA interpretation is the most important, just like their decision to implement various punishments.



Are the goals of HBCU not to graduate kids? I know one HBCU alumni president said their school was "not in the business" of graduating kids, but that's neither here or there.

I take that as a kid is responsible for graduating himself. Taking the courses and passing them. You cannot just push anyone through, how they do in HISD (my wife is an educator)



Again - I am using TV revenues, not as something I agree with - but because it has been done in the past and until the NCAA fills the loophole, I would hope that if schools are going to not be punished properly for APR, that they do find something that makes an impact on the schools.


They are being punished, no postseason (playoffs) play. LOL

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Just to be clear on this: USC's ban on the Pac-12 championship game was handed down by the NCAA by the Infractions committee. They have the ability to strip the ability of football teams to play in championship games and bowls. All these schools that have been found to commit major violations go through here.

The APR penalties are different, according to the NCAA. They can limit access to NCAA Championships and other "post-season" games, but the SWAC Championship game does not fall under that same category.

Presumably, an FBS team hit with an historic APR violation could play in their conference championship game, but not be eligible for bowls. But that will never happen, as FBS teams are nowhere close to getting historic APR penalties. Only HBCU's and low-resource schools, based on how the APR program is set up, will most likely be the recipient of such penalties. This is why some simple, sane reform of the APR is in order.

[DFW HOYA]

What is the reform you propose?

[SUjagTILLiDIE]

Presumably, an FBS team hit with an historic APR violation could play in their conference championship game, but not be eligible for bowls. But that will never happen, as FBS teams are nowhere close to getting historic APR penalties. Only HBCU's and low-resource schools, based on how the APR program is set up, will most likely be the recipient of such penalties. This is why some simple, sane reform of the APR is in order.
xsmileyclapx

[TexasTerror]

The APR penalties are different, according to the NCAA. They can limit access to NCAA Championships and other "post-season" games, but the SWAC Championship game does not fall under that same category.

What other games would be considered "post-season" by the NCAA explanation?


Presumably, an FBS team hit with an historic APR violation could play in their conference championship game, but not be eligible for bowls. But that will never happen, as FBS teams are nowhere close to getting historic APR penalties. Only HBCU's and low-resource schools, based on how the APR program is set up, will most likely be the recipient of such penalties. This is why some simple, sane reform of the APR is in order.

How will the NCAA define low-resource institutions? It seems with the change in our economy that there are more and more schools that have "low resources" to compete, let alone have the academic support in place to help with student-athletes.

[WestCoastAggie]

Just to be clear on this: USC's ban on the Pac-12 championship game was handed down by the NCAA by the Infractions committee. They have the ability to strip the ability of football teams to play in championship games and bowls. All these schools that have been found to commit major violations go through here.

The APR penalties are different, according to the NCAA. They can limit access to NCAA Championships and other "post-season" games, but the SWAC Championship game does not fall under that same category.

Presumably, an FBS team hit with an historic APR violation could play in their conference championship game, but not be eligible for bowls. But that will never happen, as FBS teams are nowhere close to getting historic APR penalties. Only HBCU's and low-resource schools, based on how the APR program is set up, will most likely be the recipient of such penalties. This is why some simple, sane reform of the APR is in order.

One reform could be to ban schools from allowing athletes to have majors such as General Studies. That is one major way many Division one schools keep Football & Men's Basketball players eligible. But this will also give the student athlete more responsibility in what they study and how they must manage their time.

[3rd Coast Tiger]

One reform could be to ban schools from allowing athletes to have majors such as General Studies.

I agree.

[TexasTerror]

One reform could be to ban schools from allowing athletes to have majors such as General Studies. That is one major way many Division one schools keep Football & Men's Basketball players eligible. But this will also give the student athlete more responsibility in what they study and how they must manage their time.

A few schools have changed that 'degree' title so it is no longer 'general studies'...

[DFW HOYA]

One reform could be to ban schools from allowing athletes to have majors such as General Studies. That is one major way many Division one schools keep Football & Men's Basketball players eligible. But this will also give the student athlete more responsibility in what they study and how they must manage their time.

This doesn'tr solve the problem. "General Studies" replaced the "Parks & Recreation" or "Sports Management" schools used to warehouse house athletes--take it away, and the low performers go somewhere else. Do you then go after Sociology and English if the athletes go there?

[SUjagTILLiDIE]

One reform could be to ban schools from allowing athletes to have majors such as General Studies. That is one major way many Division one schools keep Football & Men's Basketball players eligible. But this will also give the student athlete more responsibility in what they study and how they must manage their time.xhurrayxxhurrayx

At HBCU's athletes have real majors and grades arent given to athletes.

[superman7515]

General Studies is offered at Benedict College, Hampton University, Morehouse College, Southern University at New Orleans, St. Paul's College, Texas College, Texas Southern University, and University of Arkansas at Pine Bluff.

[StorminASU]

xhurrayxxhurrayx

At HBCU's athletes have real majors and grades arent given to athletes.

This happens to some degree at every school. I think any fan would have to be actively ignorant to ignore that fact.

[WestCoastAggie]

General Studies is offered at Benedict College, Hampton University, Morehouse College, Southern University at New Orleans, St. Paul's College, Texas College, Texas Southern University, and University of Arkansas at Pine Bluff.

There are other schools with majors with Integrated Studies and other similar majors too.

[Panther88]

General Studies is offered at Benedict College, Hampton University, Morehouse College, Southern University at New Orleans, St. Paul's College, Texas College, Texas Southern University, and University of Arkansas at Pine Bluff.

Uh ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. lol This is not new news, btw. xreadx

[SUjagTILLiDIE]

General Studies is offered at Benedict College, Hampton University, Morehouse College, Southern University at New Orleans, St. Paul's College, Texas College, Texas Southern University, and University of Arkansas at Pine Bluff.
First we are talking FCS so that only leaves Hampton, Texas Southern, and UAPB. So thats 3 out of how many. :)

[bjtheflamesfan]

There are other schools with majors with Integrated Studies and other similar majors too.

WCA is right...also, there are non-athletes that major in "general studies" or "interdisciplinary studies" and they arent just taking a bunch of cake classes...some take business, or psychology, or music, or English or education, or Spanish or any number of other things that arent as simple as "show up when you want, youll get an A anyway". if you just unilaterally ban schools from offering majors like that, what will be done for the non-athletes or the athletes who actually work hard in the classroom?

[TexasTerror]

First we are talking FCS so that only leaves Hampton, Texas Southern, and UAPB. So thats 3 out of how many. :)

And since 'General Studies' has become other named degrees... are there other schools that have a 'General Studies'-like degree?

[TSUalum05]

The SWAC should be able to make a decision on hoops IMMEDIATELY.

Why does a decision need to be made immediately? For who?

I'm interested to see what decision those bums in the SWAC office will come up with. I wonder what factors are involved with thier decision making process.

No need to rush. I have my own opinion how the outcome should be.

[TexasTerror]

Why does a decision need to be made immediately? For who?

They should of been able to make an IMMEDIATE one for the basketball banned schools. The Sun Belt Conference surely made a decision immediately saying that ULM will not be coming to Hot Springs, Ark. - despite all other teams getting an invite. If the SWAC is interested in the possibility of their automatic bid to the 'First Four' getting flushed, let the banned teams in. If not... they should of been able to act.


I'm interested to see what decision those bums in the SWAC office will come up with. I wonder what factors are involved with thier decision making process.

No need to rush. I have my own opinion how the outcome should be.

Again - if the automatic bid is at risk for basketball, that decision should have come immediately. The SWAC could of said something along the lines - barring appeal. The football situation is a bit more dicey...

[TSUalum05]

Oh ok, lol.

[TexasTerror]

Time to step up SWAC leadership... cannot treat basketball and football in two different manners and DEFINITELY cannot risk losing the SWAC automatic bid for even a year. The SWAC schools need that NCAA tournament money...


-Sharp said there will “definitely” be a vote by league presidents whether to ban or not to ban Jackson State and Southern University from the SWAC football championship game. The two teams suffered postseason bans from the NCAA, but that does not include the title game, which the SWAC plays instead of the NCAA playoffs.

-Asked if he had an opinion concerning the possible football championship game bans, Sharp said, “I really don’t have an opinion. We work for the member institutions. We work for the schools.”

-There will also be a vote by presidents on whether to ban Grambling and Southern from the SWAC basketball tournament. Those two teams suffered postseason bans for low APR. With the SWAC Tournament champion receiving an automatic bid into the NCAA Tournament, it’s likely the two will be banned from the SWAC Tournament. Said Sharp: “If we allow them into the (SWAC) tournament and they win, we would forfeit our automatic qualifier.”


http://blogs.clarionledger.com/jsu/2011/06/06/duer-sharp-speaks-the-blog-listens/

[Tod]

And since 'General Studies' has become other named degrees... are there other schools that have a 'General Studies'-like degree?

University of Montana:



The Liberal Studies Bachelor of Arts Program offers students the opportunity to work in a combination of disciplines in the humanities, including literature, philosophy, and history, as well as in neighboring fields.

The Liberal Studies Program offers degree options in:

General Humanities
Asian Studies
Religious Studies
Women's and Gender Studies
The Liberal Studies curriculum is designed for the student who seeks a liberal education with emphasis in the humanities. It is not intended for the student undecided about a major. The foundation of the Liberal Studies major is a two-term sequence (LS 151L and 152L - Introduction to the Humanities) covering major works of the West, from Homer to St. Augustine, and from Dante to Dostoevsky.


I'm not sure if that's what you have in mind or not.

They also offer General Studies - A.A. (Associate of Arts). This appears to be the path to a bachelor's degree in certain fields.

[TexasTerror]

Great post by Jafus on TSPN...


One should also consider: This decision sets a precedent for future decisions regarding postseason participation in the sport of football and a postseason bowl game (.i.e. Heritage Bowl).

[TexasTerror]

Not much new to report - we'll see what unfolds!


Sharp said university presidents will vote on whether to ban the Southern and JSU football teams from this year’s championship game.

The NCAA handed down one-year postseason bans to both teams last month because of substandard APR scores — but those bans don’t cover the SWAC championship, which is technically an extension of the regular season.

http://www.2theadvocate.com/sports/southern/Wide-range-of-topics-on-agenda-for-SWAC-meetings.html?index=14&c=y

[WestCoastAggie]

Jackson State & Southern are banned from the SCG!

http://www.tspnsports.com/forums/showthread.php?98556-It-s-official.-SU-and-JSU-have-been-banned-from-the-SCG.

[SUjagTILLiDIE]

Jackson State & Southern are banned from the SCG!

http://www.tspnsports.com/forums/showthread.php?98556-It-s-official.-SU-and-JSU-have-been-banned-from-the-SCG.
You didnt read the thread. That was the AD's votes which doesnt count. The president's votes are the ones that count.

[WestCoastAggie]

Yuo didnt read the thread. That was the AD's votes which doesnt count. The president's votes are the ones that count.

I just saw that. xsmhx @ myself. I also see that Alcorn's Prez is abstaining. True or false?

Such a Fluid situation this is.

[WestCoastAggie]

From The Clarion Ledger's Ross Dellenger: http://blogs.clarionledger.com/jsu/2011/06/09/swac-ads-vote-to-ban-jsu-southern-football/


The Southwestern Athletic Conference athletic directors and senior women administrators voted 8-2 Wednesday to ban the Jackson State and Southern University football teams from this season’s conference championship game, a source with knowledge of the situation told The Clarion-Ledger on Thursday.

While that vote is meaningless, it gives a glimpse into the consequential vote by the presidents, which is expected later Thursday, the final day of the SWAC’s annual meetings in Houston.

From @rossdellenger's twitter feed:


Alcorn releases statement saying Brown will abstain from vote. He also called JSU Alcorn's "younger peer" in the statement. #shotfired

[3rd Coast Tiger]

Halfway there TT!

Feeling better now?

[TexasTerror]

You didnt read the thread. That was the AD's votes which doesnt count. The president's votes are the ones that count.

Would have a hard time believing the Presidents would go 'the other way' in a vote... this is great news for the SWAC if the Presidents follow suit. Congrats SWAC!


Halfway there TT! Feeling better now?

I hope if/when the Presidents vote for this - that the SWAC fans will be proud of their conference and their member institution(s) that voted the way they did.

[3rd Coast Tiger]

I hope if/when the Presidents vote for this - that the SWAC fans will be proud of their conference and their member institution(s) that voted the way they did.

I have already contacted and spoke with my Athletic Director thanking him for his vote.

[WestCoastAggie]

According to Russ Dellenger's twitter (@russdellenger), the SWAC Preisdents voted to ban SU and JSU from the SCG and SU and GSU from the basketball tournament...

Jackson Clarion Ledger will probably have a full story, along with the Baton Rouge Morning Advocate later today...

REPEATING: Southern (FB,. MBB), Grambling (MBB) and Jackson (FB) are banned from SWAC championship events in 2011-12.

Read more: http://meacfanszone.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=sz&thread=9180&page=1#130296#ixzz1OoOuVzAh

[WestCoastAggie]

League presidents voted Thursday to ban Jackson State and Southern University from this year’s Southwestern Athletic Conference football championship game, voicing their displeasure in the poor academic standing of two of the conference’s most successful and followed football programs.

Voting details were not immediately released, and JSU officials did not immediately comment on the ruling. SWAC athletic directors and senior women administrators voted 8-2 Wednesday to ban JSU and Southern from the title game.

The vote conforms with the NCAA’s ruling three weeks ago.


http://blogs.clarionledger.com/jsu/2011/06/09/swac-presidents-jsu-southern-banned-from-title-game/

[TexasTerror]

Glad to see this has come to fruition...

Kudos to all the ADs, SWAs and Presidents of the SWAC for backing the NCAA's ruling as it relates to basketball and giving a 'nod' to the NCAA with the move with the SCG ban. Hopefully if this situation ever emerged at the FBS level, conferences would follow the SWAC's lead in banning schools from conference championship games.

Today - the SWAC became what I hope is the trendsetter.

[SUjagTILLiDIE]

Glad to see this has come to fruition...

Kudos to all the ADs, SWAs and Presidents of the SWAC for backing the NCAA's ruling as it relates to basketball and giving a 'nod' to the NCAA with the move with the SCG ban. Hopefully if this situation ever emerged at the FBS level, conferences would follow the SWAC's lead in banning schools from conference championship games.

Today - the SWAC became what I hope is the trendsetter.

Ok who are you suppose to be. xlolx

[superman7515]

JSU's Prez sounds a tad angry:


UPDATES: JSU president Carolyn Meyers released this terse statement late Thursday night: “JSU is disappointed in the decision of the SWAC to uphold the NCAA ban on postseason play due to our low APR. We wish this injuction would be applied across the board to all schools with low APR rather than selectly to those who have higher grduation rates of the general student population. We remain committed to the timely graduation of all our students and students athletes included. This is a regrettable decision.”

SWAC Presidents: JSU, Southern Banned From Title Game (http://blogs.clarionledger.com/jsu/2011/06/09/swac-presidents-jsu-southern-banned-from-title-game/)

[Lehigh Football Nation]

“JSU is disappointed in the decision of the SWAC to uphold the NCAA ban on postseason play due to our low APR. We wish this injuction would be applied across the board to all schools with low APR rather than selectly to those who have higher grduation rates of the general student population. We remain committed to the timely graduation of all our students and students athletes included. This is a regrettable decision.”

Interesting choice of words.

http://www.collegesportingnews.com/content.php?499-APR-Still-Brutally-Harsh-For-HBCUs


The NCAA's APR program has done a fine job to encourage the richer, BCS-level schools to focus millions of dollars on educating their athletes and making sure they graduate.

But in terms of resource-poor institutions with different missions than schools with gigantic athletic departments, the APR has not served it well.

Every college wants its students to earn a college degree.

But the NCAA's APR program has been punishing HBCU's — even when their graduation rates are equivalent, or even exceed, the rate of the rest of the student body.

[TexasTerror]

They may not have this completely figured out yet...


How is it that the men’s basketball programs of GSU and SU can compete for regular season titles, but the football teams of J-State and Southern can’t do the same? How is this fair to the players of all teams impacted by this decision?

The only way JSU and SU can complete for a regular season title is to be allowed to compete for a spot in the championship game which is the process that determines the SWAC’s REGULAR season champion. But that’s not possible now because the SWAC Council of President voted on a rule that eliminates J-State and SU from this year’s SCG. A ban that even the NCAA wouldn’t impose because it is a conference sanctioned event.

The SWAC took an already resolved situation and turned it into a mess of unintended consequences. There was no need to vote on a ban against Grambling, Jackson State or Southern. The NCAA had already done the “dirty work” by issuing postseason bans, scholarship reductions, and reducing practice times.

In its attempt at being cute and giving outsiders the perception that it is committed to doing the “right thing” for its student athletes…whatever that may be, the SWAC once again succeeded in creating the perception of a conference that just can’t get it right.

http://www.tspnsports.com/2011/06/15/the-swac-doesnt-realize-the-mistake-it-made-against-grambling-jackson-state-southern.htm

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I don't think the APR system is fair to the sports teams of HBCU's. Having said that, this is truly a tempest in a teapot situation that makes no sense.

The SWAC presidents have declared Grambling State and Southern ineligible for the SWAC championship basketball, but allowed them to compete for the regular season championship. In basketball, all that means is that Grambling State and Southern could deny the SWAC an NIT bid if one of those teams win the regular season - their (postseason) conference tournament still achieves an autobid to the NCAA Tournament.

By the SWAC saying this, this TSPN writer makes a huge logical step in saying that the only way the SWAC determines their "conference champion" is through the SWAC Championship Game and this is "unfair".

I think this article is missing the real issue here. The problem is not the SWAC Presidents, who were in a tough situation in concern with the APR and postseason play for their ineligible teams (per the NCAA). They could have flaunted the rule, opening themselves up to a mountain of criticism, or banned them from the SCG and basketball championship game, which minimizes the impact to the NCAA Tournament bid.

The problem is the APR itself, which caused teams with greater APR rates than the graduation rates of the institutions themselves, to be penalized.

[crossfire07]

I applaud the people that voted for the ban. The banned schools should just get their program together and quit making excuses. That is what the responsible schools do anyways.

[TexasTerror]

Southern likely has nothing to worry about after they were docked nine scholarships and will only have 54 scholarships to play with... but their head coach went off today at SWAC Media Day... I still stand by the SWAC Presidents for holding their ground, kudos to them!

http://blogs.clarionledger.com/jsu/2011/07/19/stump-sounds-off-duer-weighs-in/

[TexasTerror]

Amazes me...


Let me officially be the first one to jump on the Kris Selita bandwagon.

The freshman Jackson State kicker told reporters last month that he believed the Tigers could not only win the SWAC East division, but win every single game on the schedule in the process.

http://fansnthestands.com/2011/07/20/jackson-state-being-big-winners-could-make-the-swac-the-biggest-losers/

[BlueHenSinfonian]

Amazes me...



http://fansnthestands.com/2011/07/20/jackson-state-being-big-winners-could-make-the-swac-the-biggest-losers/

Phil Steele has Jackson State rated in the top 25. Putting any SWAC team there seems like a reach, but considering their sole non-SWAC FCS game is against Tenn State, which isn't exactly a powerhouse, and they have no FBS games on the schedule, an undefeated season isn't out of the question.

[dgtw]

I have a question about the SWAC title game. Since it is a ten team league, how can they even have such a game? The SEC, Pac-12 and Big Ten all had to expand to get one and the Big 12 lost their game when they lost members. Are the rules differant for FCS leagues or did the SWAC get special permisssion from the NCAA to do this?

[whoanellie]

1973 a NCSU men's basketball team on probationwent 27-0 beat Maryland in ACC Championship but Maryland went to NCAA w/ automatic bid.

I think it was 1987, when Louisville, then a member of the Metro Conference, had an NCAA tourney ban, yet the geniuses in the Metro Conf. allowed Crum's bunch in the conf. tourney. They won it, no other team in the Metro was chosen for the NCAA Tourney field as an at-large entry, hence, no Metro Conf. team was in the 1987 NCAA tourney.
Is that what the SWAC wants to potentially happen?

[TexasTerror]

LFN - you may find interest in this... a 'refresher course' on APR and how Jackson State got in their situation...


I had a question in the comment section of the previous blog post concerning APR and the possible NCAA expulsion hanging over the university.

If JSU’s athletic program is expelled from the NCAA for low APR scores — something that’s never been done — the expulsion, the fourth and final step of the APR penalty ladder, will likely end only when the football team’s multi-year APR meets the 900 mark.

Now, let’s take a glance at what has to happen for JSU to be banned from the NCAA or to avoid such harsh punishment. We bring you three scenarios, but before you start, here’s a refresher for the refresher, our last post on APR news.

http://blogs.clarionledger.com/jsu/2011/08/03/an-apr-refresher/

[crossfire07]

"Mitchell fired off more rounds. “We’re not doing something illegal. We’re talking about guys not going to class who aren’t even (at the school). ”

If you don't follow the rules, aren't you illegal?

[dgtw]

I guess he means its not illegeal in the sense you can go to jail over it.

[Jaguar79]

"Mitchell fired off more rounds. “We’re not doing something illegal. We’re talking about guys not going to class who aren’t even (at the school). ”

If you don't follow the rules, aren't you illegal?

He was clearly talking about kids under HIS watch not doing anything illegal. Southern is getting penalized for the last few years of the Pete Richardson era. He understood the NCAA penalty of post-season (which Southern does not participate in voluntarily), but not the SWAC's additional ban on the SCG, which only effects HIS kids.

[TexasTerror]

He was clearly talking about kids under HIS watch not doing anything illegal. Southern is getting penalized for the last few years of the Pete Richardson era. He understood the NCAA penalty of post-season (which Southern does not participate in voluntarily), but not the SWAC's additional ban on the SCG, which only effects HIS kids.

That is one of the issues with the NCAA... one we can all agree on, I believe... perhaps it is time that coaches be more linked to their violations, instead of the school?

The penalties are tied to the schools themselves, not the coaches. A coach like a Pete Richardson - in this case - could get your school in a heap load of NCAA trouble. The following coach or coaches could be 'held back' because of the penalties that are heaped on the school for the violations. Of course, some times the problems escalate due to a lack of a competent compliance director, so in some cases, it should fall on the school - but the coaches are ultimately the individual(s) responsible for filling out the rosters...

And I still agree that the additional ban on the SWAC Championship Game is appropriate... the league is holding football in the same vain as its other sports, regardless of the financial value. If Southern cannot compete in the men's basketball tournament due to postseason penalties, why should their football team be allowed to compete in the SCG when the same penalties exist?

[dgtw]

I understand the SWAC's title game is not officially considered a postseason game, but I feel a football team that breaks the rules hould be banned from the game just like any other sport. Since they don't go to the playoffs anyway, there isn't much of a penalty in just a playoff ban.

[Jaguar79]

The reason for the apparent discrepancy is the fact that Southern or Grambling CAN win the SWAC Basketball regular season title (and the NIT bid, which would then be forfeited), but cannot compete for the SWAC Football Championship.

Personally, I'm fine with not worrying about B'Ham this year. If we do what we need to do on the field and classroom, a lot of schools will have something to worry about the years after. This team is one of the youngest we've had in a while.

[dgtw]

They should just declare them ineligible for the regular season title. If they have the best record, the players know they were the best team, they won't need a trophy or banner to tell them.

[crossfire07]

If they have the best record, the players know they were the best team, they won't need a trophy or banner to tell them.

UCA knows about that. I know they were the champions that year.

[TexasTerror]

UCA knows about that. I know they were the champions that year.

They did get rings though... do not believe banners were involved for them, but definitely rings.


The reason for the apparent discrepancy is the fact that Southern or Grambling CAN win the SWAC Basketball regular season title (and the NIT bid, which would then be forfeited), but cannot compete for the SWAC Football Championship.

Couldn't Southern or Jackson State theoretically win the SWAC West or East Division titles, respectively? They just would not be eligible for the SWAC Championship Game? Does the SWAC award divisional trophies?

[3rd Coast Tiger]

Does the SWAC award divisional trophies?

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/155390_10150101145833824_574448823_7388004_7005499 _n.jpg