Moving up to FBS, and the myth of the "package deal" at GA Southern

[LegalGaSouthernEagle]

In light of what App State has obviously done in building up their program and passing GSU by, in facilities, attendance, and profile, it's no wonder that GSU fans are getting antsy. App's advancement should be cause for concern in Statesboro. It looks like at least a few in power at GSU finally get it, i.e. the concept that if you are not moving forward, you are moving backwards. Facilities are being planned. Whether they are too little too late, remains to be seen however. I hope not.

One pet peeve though.
Lately, I always hear GSU fans talking about App state and GSU trying to sell themselves as a "package deal" to some prospective FBS conference. This idea makes zero sense and it will never happen.
It's hard enough to find these sopts in FBS conferences. Why would either school want to tie itself to the other? What guarantees would either have that any prospective conference would accept both? What are the benefits of such a partnership for either school? What makes App and GSU together more attractive than either separately? When has it ever happened before in the history of college football? It hasn't, and it won't.

This partnership talk amounts to nothing more than GSU fans being in denial about what App has done and how it effects GSU. GSU fans, when they talk about this package deal, are thinking wishfully. App state is in direct competeition with us, and I assure you that they want no part in giving us a hand up now. They've established themselves in a superior position to GSU, and there's no way they would give that up willfully.

The other thing is this. What does a conference care if we "partner up" with APp state? Any FBS conference will take whoever they think is a better fit. They'll have no allegiance to any fictional partnership between App and GSU. If they need 2 teams, then they'll find two who they think fit. If they need 3, they'll find 3. Are we saying that if a conference wants GSU, but not App that GSU will say no unless both teams get in? There is no way in hell we would ever sacrifice our best interests like that. App wouldn't either.
How would such a partnership even work? Would our AD and App's AD go to said FBS conference and say, "hey, 2 is better than 1"? I don't get it, and things just don't work this way in the real world.
It's disheartening to see GSU fans floundering under A.D. Sam Baker's lack of leadership. It sucks that GSU fans are showing the kind of weakness that would allow them to think that GSU would be better off if we somehow hitched our wagon to App state's. My how times have changed. Thanks, Sam.

[jmufan999]

great post, i agree with every word. i hear similar things from CAA fans trying to go to a conference together and just shake my head every time. people get worried about "maintaining the rivalry"... but they don't consider that NEW rivalries form when you join a new conference. they just might take a little bit of time to develop.

[WUTNDITWAA]

I agree. The only way a "package deal" could be real is if it's two state-supported schools in the same state, and the General Assembly has mandated the two work together for a deal like this. ASU is looking out for No. 1. Georgia Southern should too.

[LegalGaSouthernEagle]

I'm starting to think that a lot of our Eagles at GSU are really ostritch's.

[chattownmocs]

Why would a mediocre athletic program with less than mediocre facilities want to move up?

[LegalGaSouthernEagle]

Why would a mediocre athletic program with less than mediocre facilities want to move up?If GSU is medicore with our 6 titles, what does that make the Mocs? As much as I hate to say it though, you're right about our facilities. Sam Baker- sucking since 1996.

[AppAlum2003]

Why would a mediocre athletic program with less than mediocre facilities want to move up?

Probably for the same reason that schools that haven't even fielded a football team yet think they should...

xlolx

[panama]

Probably for the same reason that schools that haven't even fielded a football team yet think they should...

xlolx

App State/Charlotte nipple twisting cage match to start in ..3...2...1...

[Blueandwhitefightfight]

App State/Charlotte nipple twisting cage match to start in ..3...2...1...

cough LAMBUTH cough cough

[LegalGaSouthernEagle]

great post, i agree with every word. i hear similar things from CAA fans trying to go to a conference together and just shake my head every time. people get worried about "maintaining the rivalry"... but they don't consider that NEW rivalries form when you join a new conference. they just might take a little bit of time to develop.There is a lot of wishful thinking among GSU fans. Many are just in complete denial about how far we've fallen back. Quite frankly, there is a legitimate argument to be made that the semi-final run last year probably hurt us more than helped us, because all it did was mask some really serious deficiencies in our program. We have a GREAT head coach now. It's just a shame that he is constantly being knee-capped by his own Athletic director.

[49RFootballNow]

App State/Charlotte nipple twisting cage match to start in ..3...2...1...

IDGAF

[TheBisonator]

FWIW, NDSU and SDSU moved to Division I as a package. We were invited to the Summit League as a package and we were invited to the MVFC as a package.

Though I'm sure it may be different when talking about moving from FCS to FBS.

[LegalGaSouthernEagle]

There's a difference between both of you being invited, and being invited as a package. I suggest to you that the way it went down was closer to the former.

[GATA]

Why would a mediocre athletic program with less than mediocre facilities want to move up?

the better question is how a school with very good facilities and located in a very nice city can suck at everything since the beginning of time? ...not to mention go through 50 mascot changes...

[chattownmocs]

the better question is how a school with very good facilities and located in a very nice city can suck at everything since the beginning of time? ...not to mention go through 50 mascot changes...

So which sports has Georgia Southern been consistently good in?

[RabidRabbit]

FWIW, NDSU and SDSU moved to Division I as a package. We were invited to the Summit League as a package and we were invited to the MVFC as a package.

Though I'm sure it may be different when talking about moving from FCS to FBS.

Yes. Rumor has it that MVFC only wanted SDSU (closer to footprint) and that SDSU said both of us or we stay in GWFC, which if they had stayed would have become a 7 team conference, and offered an alternative to the Big Sky. So two similar programs, with a strong history can make the pitch to a move up conference and get both selected.

[LegalGaSouthernEagle]

Yes. Rumor has it that MVFC only wanted SDSU (closer to footprint) and that SDSU said both of us or we stay in GWFC, which if they had stayed would have become a 7 team conference, and offered an alternative to the Big Sky. So two similar programs, with a strong history can make the pitch to a move up conference and get both selected.This is interesting. I'm not sure of the wisdom in it though.
Do you have a link, or is that all behind the scenes rumors. I'm not disputing it. I'd just like to see something concrete. Although I find it hard to believe that SDSU would think that's its rivalry with NDSU was more important that its own long term advancement.

[chattownmocs]

Did Georgia Southern win a single championship this year? Did they finish in the top half of more than 2 or 3 sports? There is nothing about your school other than ancient football history that says you can compete at the next level in anything as far as I can tell.

[LegalGaSouthernEagle]

Did Georgia Southern win a single championship this year? Did they finish in the top half of more than 2 or 3 sports? There is nothing about your school other than ancient football history that says you can compete at the next level in anything as far as I can tell.k. That semi-final run didn't get your attention? Perhaps you couldn't see through your tears, since your mocs(or whatever you call yourselves this year) got LEFT HOME.

[Appattk]

This is the year Ga So. needs to capitalize on their momentum from last year. Both in terms of winning another NC, but in terms of "catching up" to App in terms of the FBS race...

[ThompsonThe]

I thought that was why we were "continuing our study" to wait on Georgia Southern to get in better shape so we both could move to FBS together.

[cmaxwellgsu]

This is the year Ga So. needs to capitalize on their momentum from last year. Both in terms of winning another NC, but in terms of "catching up" to App in terms of the FBS race...

Agreed. There is no package deal. At GSU, we're getting ready to announce what App has already done. No matter the decision on FBS for App, the heavy lifting has already been done for a future move. I'm hoping we're getting to catch up.

[LegalGaSouthernEagle]

This is the year Ga So. needs to capitalize on their momentum from last year. Both in terms of winning another NC, but in terms of "catching up" to App in terms of the FBS race...I couldn't agree more. We're in one of those windows of opportunites right now. Sam Baker has already missed two of these opportunities. That's why I think it is important for us to immediately get real a real A.D. who knows what he is doing.
If you can't tell, I'm pissed.
Im not sure what ticks me off more though. Sam Baker's incomptence, or Ga Southern fans' apathy about it.

The idea that this messageboard banter doesn't mean anything is a lie. It means a lot, especially at tthis FCS level. The media coverage at this level is sparse, so guys like Baker can generally get away with incompetence and screw ups, because nobody is watching. One of the few ways to publicly pressure a guy like Baker is to discuss stuff like this on sites like this one. Just like in business, "word of mouth" is a powerful force. It bums me out that GSU fans are reluctant to call out Sam Baker on these sites. At this point, the guy has done so much damage to our program, for so long, that the attacks should be relentless and continuous.

[Milktruck74]

the better question is how a school with very good facilities and located in a very nice city can suck at everything since the beginning of time? ...not to mention go through 50 mascot changes...

Football is King, but when you are talking about moving up you have to look at the Overall Athletics Programs. Lets look at the SoCon Commissioners Cup Standings....App State owns this award - 30 wins since 1970. Chattanooga has won a few, GSU hasn't even been in the running. Let's see how that "run to the semis" helped them this year...standings for this academic year through the winter sport championships... App State -1, Chattanooga -2, GSU -12......Dis someone say Academics...Isn't GSU football last in the conference in APR for 2010???? There is more to moving up then your football team. Face the facts, conferences are concerned with your ability to compete in other sports, your facilities, and Academics!!!!


EDIT: go ahead and point out my typos, if that makes you feel better. I'm really not trying to rag on your program, just trying to show that consideration of App State is not solely based on Football. And, if GSU wants to move up to the BCS, they have to look at the deficiencies in their Athletics department (Football isn't the problem). and if Chattanooga ever considered a move up, they need to focus on Football.

[cmaxwellgsu]

Football is King, but when you are talking about moving up you have to look at the Overall Athletics Programs. Lets look at the SoCon Commissioners Cup Standings....App State owns this award - 30 wins since 1970. Chattanooga has won a few, GSU hasn't even been in the running. Let's see how that "run to the semis" helped them this year...standings for this academic year through the winter sport championships... App State -1, Chattanooga -2, GSU -12......Dis someone say Academics...Isn't GSU football last in the conference in APR for 2010???? There is more to moving up then your football team. Face the facts, conferences are concerned with your ability to compete in other sports, your facilities, and Academics!!!!


EDIT: go ahead and point out my typos, if that makes you feel better. I'm really not trying to rag on your program, just trying to show that consideration of App State is not solely based on Football. And, if GSU wants to move up to the BCS, they have to look at the deficiencies in their Athletics department (Football isn't the problem). and if Chattanooga ever considered a move up, they need to focus on Football.

Less than you'd think, since we're all already competing for the same championships as our FBS counterparts.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

Did Georgia Southern win a single championship this year? Did they finish in the top half of more than 2 or 3 sports? There is nothing about your school other than ancient football history that says you can compete at the next level in anything as far as I can tell.

This just in the 2010-2011 year...
1. Tied for 3rd in football, made it farther in the playoffs than App. and Wofford
2. Won the Golf SoCon tourny (again, and going to the NCAAs for the third straight year)
3. Absolutely owned everyone in volleyball and won the SoCon and will likely repeat next year
4. In the top 3 in baseball (again)
5. Second place in the regular season in softball

And spare me that crap about the commissioners cup. GSU arguably has the best baseball program and facilities in the SoCon and the same goes for golf. If GSU can just bring the football and basketball facilities up to where App. State is we'd arguably be a better FBS candidate than them.

[The Eagle's Cliff]

This just in the 2010-2011 year...
1. Tied for 3rd in football, made it farther in the playoffs than App. and Wofford
2. Won the Golf SoCon tourny (again, and going to the NCAAs for the third straight year)
3. Absolutely owned everyone in volleyball and won the SoCon and will likely repeat next year
4. In the top 3 in baseball (again)
5. Second place in the regular season in softball

And spare me that crap about the commissioners cup. GSU arguably has the best baseball program and facilities in the SoCon and the same goes for golf. If GSU can just bring the football and basketball facilities up to where App. State is we'd arguably be a better FBS candidate than them.

What happens in terms of classification for schools in FCS (who position themselves to move) will probably be determined by Conference Realignment within FBS. Expansion of BCS Conferences will open slots in Non-BCS like the UCF-App St scenario. Conferences are looking for revenue. East Carolina is way ahead of Georgia Southern and App St in facilities and donor support, but their small market keeps them from being invited to the Big East or ACC over a school like UCF in Orlando.

Joining your school's Athletic Foundation is the best positive step any fan can take.

[Sir William]

GSU arguably has the best baseball program...in the SoCon

College of Charleston and Elon would probably beg to differ on this particular point, especially if one looks at the SoCon standings over the past 6-7 seasons.

[The Eagle's Cliff]

College of Charleston and Elon would probably beg to differ on this particular point, especially if one looks at the SoCon standings over the past 6-7 seasons.

I agree. I think he's looking at the overall program, including facilities, which would certainly put us at the top. Our baseball facility is better than a lot of FBS schools.

[citdog]

I agree. I think he's looking at the overall program, including facilities, which would certainly put us at the top. Our baseball facility is better than a lot of FBS schools.

Who has the most titles and the best facility again?

[LegalGaSouthernEagle]

Who has the most titles and the best facility again?Not sure. Apparently your flea bag team didn't even make the SoConference tournament. So I'm not sure why you are boasting today. Slow day in civil war history I guess.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

College of Charleston and Elon would probably beg to differ on this particular point, especially if one looks at the SoCon standings over the past 6-7 seasons.

In terms of tournament championships, GSU and El Cid have pretty much run the show. GSU and The Citadel have won 11 of the last 17 tournaments.

Also, you have to consider the facilities as well. GSU has the best baseball stadium in the SoCon.

[Blueandwhitefightfight]

In terms of tournament championships, GSU and El Cid have pretty much run the show. GSU and The Citadel have won 11 of the last 17 tournaments.

Also, you have to consider the facilities as well. GSU has the best baseball stadium in the SoCon.

I think CofC plays at the nicest stadium. BUT it isn't theirs.

[citdog]

Not sure. Apparently your flea bag team didn't even make the SoConference tournament. So I'm not sure why you are boasting today. Slow day in civil war history I guess.


We sure didn't. The Major League Baseball Draft has been hard on the Cadets the last couple of seasons. We actually do it with 4 year players as well. No Juco transfer players play for us and this year mostly Knobs. We will be back hoisting the trophy on Sunday a year from now.

[Eagle16]

I couldn't agree more. We're in one of those windows of opportunites right now. Sam Baker has already missed two of these opportunities. That's why I think it is important for us to immediately get real a real A.D. who knows what he is doing.
If you can't tell, I'm pissed.
Im not sure what ticks me off more though. Sam Baker's incomptence, or Ga Southern fans' apathy about it.

The idea that this messageboard banter doesn't mean anything is a lie. It means a lot, especially at tthis FCS level. The media coverage at this level is sparse, so guys like Baker can generally get away with incompetence and screw ups, because nobody is watching. One of the few ways to publicly pressure a guy like Baker is to discuss stuff like this on sites like this one. Just like in business, "word of mouth" is a powerful force. It bums me out that GSU fans are reluctant to call out Sam Baker on these sites. At this point, the guy has done so much damage to our program, for so long, that the attacks should be relentless and continuous.

So, how would you suggest we as GSU fans get rid of the current AD? Should we only focus on message board banter, or do you have other avenues we should explore? I just want to make sure I focus my energy appropriately so you'll consider me as a true fan.

[ValleyBoy]

So, how would you suggest we as GSU fans get rid of the current AD? Should we only focus on message board banter, or do you have other avenues we should explore? I just want to make sure I focus my energy appropriately so you'll consider me as a true fan.
Opie would have you first go to every sporting event that GSU is involved in with a banner saying "Fire Sam Baker"

[LegalGaSouthernEagle]

Opie would have you first go to every sporting event that GSU is involved in with a banner saying "Fire Sam Baker"Hardly. I wouldn't have you do anthing actually, Valley. You've already stated that you "don't have a dog in the hunt" because your boy left the team. Nice loyalty by you, by the way. I, on the other hand, have a GSU diploma hanging on my office wall, and I happen to be extremely proud of it. Excuse me for taking it personally when I see a guy like Baker coasting into retirement and using GSU for his golden parachute to my school's long term detriment.

I don't have the answer for what it will take to get rid of Baker. I wish I did. What I do know is that writing letters to Keel, posting on messageboards, witholding dollars until action is taken, and just generally making his firing a regular topic of discussion amongst GSU fans, will add pressure to both Baker and his bosses. The more that people discuss these issues, the more the media will see them as a legitmate topic for coverage.
Trust me when I tell you that Sam Baker feels the heat from posts like these in public forums. If he didn't, he wouldn't have foolishly felt the need to anonymously go on gsufans.com a few years ago as "Silvereagle" to attempt to defend himself.
All of these little things are things that the average fan can to to let the Pesident know that we're tired of Sam's lack of leadership and incompetence. The biggest wave starts with just a ripple.

[seantaylor]

GSU baseball is the premiere Socon program historically. We have double the CWS appearances of the rest of the conference COMBINED. Best facility in the Socon by far. El Chit's stadium is Bill Murray's. But, we have a mediocre coach right now, who can only win when the stars align. We need a new coach, pronto.

Socon hitter and pitcher of the year, 5 All Socon selections, and we finish 4th? Coaching problem.

[The Eagle's Cliff]

Who has the most titles and the best facility again?

Maybe I should say "On-Campus" Facility. I think your stadium is for the River Dogs, right?

The Citadel is always tops, but it does help a little that you guys host the tourney nearly every year. I thought Flour Field in Greenville was a nice change and wouldn't mind if it moved there for a while.