ASU to Continue Athletics Feasibility Study

[Accelerati Incredibilus]

Courtesy: Appalachian Sports Information
Release: Friday 05/20/2011 (ET)

BOONE, N.C. — Appalachian State University’s athletics feasibility study committee announced on Friday that it will continue its work and not make a recommendation to ASU Chancellor Dr. Kenneth E. Peacock at this time.

The committee decided during Friday’s regularly scheduled meeting that more information-gathering and analysis is needed at this point in the study. There is no deadline in place for a recommendation to be made.

“While May was the stated goal for when we wanted to provide a recommendation to Chancellor Peacock, we will not sacrifice making the most informed recommendation possible to meet an artificial deadline,” committee co-chairperson G.A. Sywassink said.

The committee has identified two issues that require further study. First, any potential major tuition increases at Appalachian must be accurately accounted for in financial models, as athletics pays tuition bills for 400-plus ASU student-athletes. Secondly, many NCAA Division I conferences and institutions are in the process of evaluating potential changes in membership and/or football-subdivision affiliation and Appalachian must continue to monitor and analyze these evaluations in order to determine its own place in the changing Division I landscape.

North Carolina’s budget uncertainty plays only an indirect role in Friday’s decision, as state appropriations are not used to fund athletics. However, while the issues are separate, the timing is not right for Chancellor Peacock and, ultimately, the ASU Board of Trustees, to consider any recommendation that the committee might bring forth.

“Chancellor Peacock’s ultimate recommendation to the Board of Trustees needs serious reflection and discussion that cannot occur while he and the other UNC leaders are focused primarily on advocating in Raleigh for state support of higher education,” ASU director of athletics Charlie Cobb said. “Over the next several months, his focus and the focus of our other University leaders will be — and should be — on the state budget.”

Since January, Appalachian’s athletics feasibility study committee has been analyzing data collected by Collegiate Consulting LLC (formerly NACDA Consulting) regarding the feasibility of seeking a change in ASU’s conference and/or football-subdivision affiliation. The University’s Board of Trustees approved the feasibility study last September. Once the committee develops a final report based on its analysis and makes a recommendation to Chancellor Peacock, he will make his own recommendation to the Board of Trustees, who must approve any change in Appalachian’s athletic affiliations.

A member of NCAA Division I since 1971, the Mountaineers currently participate in the Southern Conference. In football, Appalachian and the SoCon compete in the NCAA Division I Football Championship Subdivision (FCS — formerly Division I-AA). ASU won an unprecedented three-consecutive NCAA Division I Football Championships from 2005-07 and has won six-straight SoCon titles. Appalachian has led the FCS in regular-season home football attendance each of the past four years.


In other words, ASU still doesn't have anywhere to go.

[panama]

Is that like taking the test until you get a score you like?xreadx

[LegalGaSouthernEagle]

Courtesy: Appalachian Sports Information
Release: Friday 05/20/2011 (ET)

BOONE, N.C. — Appalachian State University’s athletics feasibility study committee announced on Friday that it will continue its work and not make a recommendation to ASU Chancellor Dr. Kenneth E. Peacock at this time.

The committee decided during Friday’s regularly scheduled meeting that more information-gathering and analysis is needed at this point in the study. There is no deadline in place for a recommendation to be made.

“While May was the stated goal for when we wanted to provide a recommendation to Chancellor Peacock, we will not sacrifice making the most informed recommendation possible to meet an artificial deadline,” committee co-chairperson G.A. Sywassink said.

The committee has identified two issues that require further study. First, any potential major tuition increases at Appalachian must be accurately accounted for in financial models, as athletics pays tuition bills for 400-plus ASU student-athletes. Secondly, many NCAA Division I conferences and institutions are in the process of evaluating potential changes in membership and/or football-subdivision affiliation and Appalachian must continue to monitor and analyze these evaluations in order to determine its own place in the changing Division I landscape.

North Carolina’s budget uncertainty plays only an indirect role in Friday’s decision, as state appropriations are not used to fund athletics. However, while the issues are separate, the timing is not right for Chancellor Peacock and, ultimately, the ASU Board of Trustees, to consider any recommendation that the committee might bring forth.

“Chancellor Peacock’s ultimate recommendation to the Board of Trustees needs serious reflection and discussion that cannot occur while he and the other UNC leaders are focused primarily on advocating in Raleigh for state support of higher education,” ASU director of athletics Charlie Cobb said. “Over the next several months, his focus and the focus of our other University leaders will be — and should be — on the state budget.”

Since January, Appalachian’s athletics feasibility study committee has been analyzing data collected by Collegiate Consulting LLC (formerly NACDA Consulting) regarding the feasibility of seeking a change in ASU’s conference and/or football-subdivision affiliation. The University’s Board of Trustees approved the feasibility study last September. Once the committee develops a final report based on its analysis and makes a recommendation to Chancellor Peacock, he will make his own recommendation to the Board of Trustees, who must approve any change in Appalachian’s athletic affiliations.

A member of NCAA Division I since 1971, the Mountaineers currently participate in the Southern Conference. In football, Appalachian and the SoCon compete in the NCAA Division I Football Championship Subdivision (FCS — formerly Division I-AA). ASU won an unprecedented three-consecutive NCAA Division I Football Championships from 2005-07 and has won six-straight SoCon titles. Appalachian has led the FCS in regular-season home football attendance each of the past four years.


In other words, ASU still doesn't have anywhere to go.The committee identified 2 issues......obviously that budget deal is a factor, but it's a red herring as to why they're delaying.

They obviously want that C-USA bid, but things haven't shaken out as Appy originally saw them. I'm still not convinced that C-USA would ever take a I-AA transitional team. I don't see the benefit for C-USA to dip down so low for replaceent teams. I suspect they have their eye on a couple Sunbelt teams as much as they do App State.
There's a natural progression for moving up, and I think App is trying to skip step 1. More power to them for dreaming big, but I think they are more suited as a Sunbelt team right now. Incidently, I would say the same thing about GSU with a stadium expansion and a new A.D. Ga Southern would fit great n the Sunbelt right now. Way better than the Socon. As much crap as the Sunbelt takes, it's a conference that has improved every year, and has recently pulled off some fairly high profile upsets. Additionally, Sunbelt schools are consistently getting high caliber FBS/I-A teams to come to their stadiums, including a few BCS teams. For my money, the Sunbelt beats the hell out of the SoCon, and either App or GSU would be a better fit there.

[Saint3333]

Is that like taking the test until you get a score you like?xreadx

There are two questions.

1. Can we? The answer is yes.
2. Should we? That question can't be answered until the conferences shake out.

ASU seems to be delaying the decision until both questions have answers.

[Smitty]

Oh good I thought the other thread was getting stale...

[DFW HOYA]

The committee has identified two issues that require further study. First, any potential major tuition increases at Appalachian must be accurately accounted for in financial models, as athletics pays tuition bills for 400-plus ASU student-athletes. Secondly, many NCAA Division I conferences and institutions are in the process of evaluating potential changes in membership and/or football-subdivision affiliation and Appalachian must continue to monitor and analyze these evaluations in order to determine its own place in the changing Division I landscape.


Issue #3: How many sports will it support playing in a Sun Belt conference that stretches from Colorado (for now) to Texas to south Florida.

[State Line Liquors]

Did this feasibility study provide any previously unknown information to either the university, the ASU fans, or any worthwhile FBS suitor conferences?

These feasibility studies remind me of one of those 'at sea' cruises where you basically just pay to float in the ocean for a couple days, look at a few seagulls, have a night or two of hanky panky with the wife away from the kids, and then return to port having paid more than you normally would have for a nice weekend in Colonial Williamsburg.

[whoanellie]

I'm thinking that the big 6 conferences plus Notre Dame will seperate from the rest of D-1 and that BCS allignment
will filter the other FBS schools to FCS some smaller bowls may host some play-off sites as double hitters as FCS has an ever changing formatt
time will tell.

[Saint3333]

If the Big 6 do break out a more likely situation would be three subdivisions.

[The Eagle's Cliff]

If the Big 6 do break out a more likely situation would be three subdivisions.

This scenario was proposed several years ago (a good idea imo) and voted down by the lower-tier FBS and lower-tier I-AA schools. Many people only look at football competition when considering conference alignment, but many other factors are at play including revenue potential/media market, academic mission similarity, alumni donor percentages, and ALL sports facilities and offerings.

[superman7515]

Issue #3: How many sports will it support playing in a Sun Belt conference that stretches from Colorado (for now) to Texas to south Florida.

Issue #4: It's against Sun Belt by-laws to take any additional FCS schools and the Presidents/AD's of that conference already said since January that if they expanded, they would only offer the invitation to existing FBS schools. They're more interested in taking Louisiana Tech from the WAC than an FCS school.

[Accelerati Incredibilus]

Did this feasibility study provide any previously unknown information to either the university, the ASU fans, or any worthwhile FBS suitor conferences? These feasibility studies remind me of one of those 'at sea' cruises where you basically just pay to float in the ocean for a couple days, look at a few seagulls, have a night or two of hanky panky with the wife away from the kids, and then return to port having paid more than you normally would have for a nice weekend in Colonial Williamsburg.


It absolutely did. Issues like attendance and facilities are easy to figure out. This group was focused on finding out exactly where the ASU stands relative to CUSA, Sun Belt and MAC schools in terms of funding, expenditures, and revenues. They amassed a lot of information and have a very clear understanding which model is likely to be the successful one to follow. I think you are extremely short sighted to trivialize the importance of the work this group has done.

[The Eagle's Cliff]

Issue #4: It's against Sun Belt by-laws to take any additional FCS schools and the Presidents/AD's of that conference already said since January that if they expanded, they would only offer the invitation to existing FBS schools. They're more interested in taking Louisiana Tech from the WAC than an FCS school.

Of course you're correct, but I find it more than hypocritical of the Sun Belt considering Every Football member came from I-AA.

[Cocky]

La Tech has been very plain in stating they have zero interest in the SB.

Still believe there will be opportunities to move to a FBS conference or JSU is being leaded to believe there will be by FBS conferences.

[LegalGaSouthernEagle]

Of course you're correct, but I find it more than hypocritical of the Sun Belt considering Every Football member came from I-AA.Hypocritical? Them wanting to improve their image is hypocritical?
I'll tell you what's truly hypocritical. Ga Southern seeking a spot in The Sunbelt after our genius A.D. spent the better part of the last decade publicly insulting that conference.

Sam Baker shot off his big mouth about the Sunbelt in order to rationalize his own inaction to our misinformed fan base.

[State Line Liquors]

It absolutely did. Issues like attendance and facilities are easy to figure out. This group was focused on finding out exactly where the ASU stands relative to CUSA, Sun Belt and MAC schools in terms of funding, expenditures, and revenues. They amassed a lot of information and have a very clear understanding which model is likely to be the successful one to follow. I think you are extremely short sighted to trivialize the importance of the work this group has done.

Right...

The DOE reports are public information too.

I have no doubt it was more substance than puffery, like the rest of these very in depth analyses.

[blaw0203]

Issue #4: It's against Sun Belt by-laws to take any additional FCS schools and the Presidents/AD's of that conference already said since January that if they expanded, they would only offer the invitation to existing FBS schools. They're more interested in taking Louisiana Tech from the WAC than an FCS school.

Most FBS schools wouldnt want to join the Sunbelt - even when my school FAMU was moving up divisions, our AD advised against joining the Sunbelt (I think that was a bad call). Contrary to what they may say, the Sunbelt would welcome Appalacian State with open arms because App State would be a MAJOR improvement for that conference. The only problem is that App State would lose money in the Sunbelt, however, they would be able to easily dominate that conference and then move on to a more respectable conference such as C-USA. Many schools have used that conference as a stepping stone and are now doing well.

[LegalGaSouthernEagle]

Most FBS schools wouldnt want to join the Sunbelt - even when my school FAMU was moving up divisions, our AD advised against joining the Sunbelt (I think that was a bad call). Contrary to what they may say, the Sunbelt would welcome Appalacian State with open arms because App State would be a MAJOR improvement for that conference. The only problem is that App State would lose money in the Sunbelt, however, they would be able to easily dominate that conference and then move on to a more respectable conference such as C-USA. Many schools have used that conference as a stepping stone and are now doing well.Sorry. The above is a classic example of delusions of granduer, FCS style. App State would be immediately competitive in the Sunbelt, but they wouldn't dominate or uprade the Sunbelt's overall profile in any real way. Get real. Are the masses clamouring for more Appy state in the media? Nope. The sunbelt is in the power position in the negotiations with App. If you don't see that, then you are, well, Ralph. barf. ralph.

[gophoenix]

If the Big 6 do break out a more likely situation would be three subdivisions.

Why? At that point, any D-I vote would weigh in favor of the larger number of schools (ie FCS). And at that point, the difference between what's left in FBS and FCS is so minimal that keeping them separated would be fairly silly. I'f you're telling me basically a 60 team FBS consisting of schools like App, Akron, Kent St and Marhsall needs to be seperated from FCS, given the FCS records against those types, then all I can simply say is wow.

[gophoenix]

And goodness for all our sakes, I wish something would open up, for the love of God. Just get them out of here.

How many app to fbs threads do we need?

[Saint3333]

GP there isn't more than 40 teams in the FCS that would be competitive with the bottom 60 of the FBS.

The lack of fully funded FCS programs is the biggest driver behind this. If you think the bottom 2/3rds of the FCS could compete with FBS programs you need a reality check.

No one is forcing you to read these threads.

[Accelerati Incredibilus]

GP there isn't more than 40 teams in the FCS that would be competitive with the bottom 60 of the FBS.

The lack of fully funded FCS programs is the biggest driver behind this. If you think the bottom 2/3rds of the FCS could compete with FBS programs you need a reality check.

No one is forcing you to read these threads.

ASU, Del, Ga Southern, JMU, ODU and Jax State have far more in common with CUSA, MAC, WAC, and Sun Belt programs than those in their own conferences.

[gophoenix]

Why would it be broken into 3 then? Why would FCS, that would outnumber the ones in FBS 2 to 1 vote in favor of dividing against itself? Currently most of FCS ins't competitive with the top 20, the 40-60 teams aren't really competitive with the top 20-40. It's the nature of being good or not. There's always groups of teams that divide themselves from the rest on a year to year basis.

The Mac and Sun Belt schools have a very poor track record against FCS as it is. Creating 3 divisions at that point would be pointless. Very pointless. And at that point, there's no reason the SoCon, CAA, MVC, Southland, Big Sky, what's left of the Great West, majority of the Big South couldn't be competitive day in and out against what's left of that FBS group.

[gophoenix]

ASU, Del, Ga Southern, JMU, ODU and Jax State have far more in common with CUSA, MAC, WAC, and Sun Belt programs than those in their own conferences.

Define "more in common"

That term is throw around so much. And depending on how it is defined, it can be use to support any argument you guys want to throw out. The fact is, I can spin that to show App belongs in the SoCon easily. I could also spin it to show Elon belongs in the CAA. I could also spin it to show JMU, App, Jax St don't belong in any of the aforementioned conferences.

So what will it be? So far, no one has offered anything substantive that proves that that statement is true. There's D-II schools that have more in common with App than they do with the SAC.

The truth of the matter is, moving up or down or staying has nothing to do with fans. It has nothing to do with competitiveness. It has nothing to do with ability. It has nothing to do with school profile. It has nothing to do with atmosphere. It has nothing to do with most of anything you guys post about that turns out to be nothing more than smack against your fellow SoCon schools.

It has to do with one thing: Money. how much it will cost a CUSA, MWC and MAC team. And how much money it will cost App vs how much more money you will bring in. That's it.

[Saint3333]

You'd have the BCS as one tier. Then set up a second tier the way 1-AA should have been set up originally with scholarship minimums, then have a third tier of programs that want to have a football program and play division one basketball, etc. as a true cost containment football division. That makes sense.

[Cocky]

It comes down to the desire of your university nothing more or nothing less. FCS is a good product as is FBS. Each has advantages and disadvantages which make people have different views on the decision.

JSU, EKU and maybe EIU are the only football first schools in the OVC the others like basketball more. The only possible conference options for majority like minded universities are SOCON, Sun Belt, CUSA, WAC football only or a new conference. With App wanting to move it makes the SOCON less disirable. CUSA would be a Christmas present. WAC a last option. New conference would take a lot of leadership and work from several universities and lawyers. The Sun Belt is the most reasonable answer but like all of the above we havent been invited officially. JSU doesnt have a good option for staying FCS which is a factor in our desire to move along with our peer state universities moving to FBS, not a put down of other FCS schools.

[State Line Liquors]

Does anyone know if the the incredibly hard working, and ground breaking, Feasibility Committee was able to come back with any opinions or hard data on whether or not the NCAA was going to open up a 3 tier division 1 football. Maybe some quotes from Emmert, or the Presidents of CUSA and Slum Belch?

[LegalGaSouthernEagle]

Define "more in common"

The truth of the matter is, moving up or down or staying has nothing to do with fans. It has nothing to do with competitiveness. It has nothing to do with ability. It has nothing to do with school profile. It has nothing to do with atmosphere. It has nothing to do with most of anything you guys post about that turns out to be nothing more than smack against your fellow SoCon schools.

It has to do with one thing: Money. how much it will cost a CUSA, MWC and MAC team. And how much money it will cost App vs how much more money you will bring in. That's it.You're wrong. It's not a straight zero sum cost-benefit analysis. There is obvious intangible value in being labeled a FBS school, as opposed to a FCS. That's just reality. In fact, that intangibe value is why most schools want to move up in the first place.

And I'm not sure how you can say that moving up has nothing to do with factors like fans, profile, etc.
Having a solid fanbase is one of the things these conferences are looking for in prospective new members. Even if Elon had the money to support a FBS program, do you really thank any FBS conferences would be seeking out Elon with your < 10,000 seat stadium and anemic fanbase?

The fact of the matter is that the most important thing that a conference is looking for when shopping for new members is the fanbase and the size of the local market. That's why schools like USF, UCF, etc have had a leg up on getting into the big conferences, over an App, etc. If you are C-USA or the Sunbelt, do you want to have your conference marketed in the Orlando media, or the Boone, NC media?

[SoCon48]

Define "more in common"

That term is throw around so much. And depending on how it is defined, it can be use to support any argument you guys want to throw out. The fact is, I can spin that to show App belongs in the SoCon easily. I could also spin it to show Elon belongs in the CAA. I could also spin it to show JMU, App, Jax St don't belong in any of the aforementioned conferences.

So what will it be? So far, no one has offered anything substantive that proves that that statement is true. There's D-II schools that have more in common with App than they do with the SAC.

The truth of the matter is, moving up or down or staying has nothing to do with fans. It has nothing to do with competitiveness. It has nothing to do with ability. It has nothing to do with school profile. It has nothing to do with atmosphere. It has nothing to do with most of anything you guys post about that turns out to be nothing more than smack against your fellow SoCon schools.

It has to do with one thing: Money. how much it will cost a CUSA, MWC and MAC team. And how much money it will cost App vs how much more money you will bring in. That's it.

It's "there are" not "there is"

[ASUMountaineer]

And goodness for all our sakes, I wish something would open up, for the love of God. Just get them out of here.

How many app to fbs threads do we need?

Well, not all of them have been started by ASU posters. Also, you do have the option not to read them--tough, I know. xrotatehx

[SoCon48]

Well, not all of them have been started by ASU posters. Also, you do have the option not to read them--tough, I know. xrotatehx

LOL

[Accelerati Incredibilus]

Define "more in common"

That term is throw around so much. And depending on how it is defined, it can be use to support any argument you guys want to throw out. The fact is, I can spin that to show App belongs in the SoCon easily. I could also spin it to show Elon belongs in the CAA. I could also spin it to show JMU, App, Jax St don't belong in any of the aforementioned conferences.

So what will it be? So far, no one has offered anything substantive that proves that that statement is true. There's D-II schools that have more in common with App than they do with the SAC.

The truth of the matter is, moving up or down or staying has nothing to do with fans. It has nothing to do with competitiveness. It has nothing to do with ability. It has nothing to do with school profile. It has nothing to do with atmosphere. It has nothing to do with most of anything you guys post about that turns out to be nothing more than smack against your fellow SoCon schools.

It has to do with one thing: Money. how much it will cost a CUSA, MWC and MAC team. And how much money it will cost App vs how much more money you will bring in. That's it.

You can try all the useless rationalization you want, but the cold, hard facts are clear. #1: Data compiled by that worthless ASU FBS Study Committee clearly shows ASU generates as much if not more money than all the SunBelt and MAC schools and is mid pack with CUSA schools, especially in terms of corporate and sponsorship dollars. I am confident JMU, ODU, Delaware, GSU and Jax State (to a lesser degree) compare much better in those areas than the overwhelming majority of FCS schools. #2: The facilities at these schools, or are in the process of building, have very little in common with all but a select few FCS programs and are much more on par with FBS programs. #3: Attendance (and please don't start with the size of enrollments in relationship to attendance), only 12 of of 117 FCS schools averaged the FBS mandated 15,000+ per game. The schools mentioned were #'s 1,4,5,6,7,& 9 (regular season) and their combined average was 19,134. The remaining SoCon & CAA schools averaged 8410. I could go on, but all this is getting a little old. If you can't see the difference in these programs you don't have your eyes open.

[LegalGaSouthernEagle]

You can try all the useless rationalization you want, but the cold, hard facts are clear. #1: Data compiled by that worthless ASU FBS Study Committee clearly shows ASU generates as much if not more money than all the SunBelt and MAC schools and is mid pack with CUSA schools, especially in terms of corporate and sponsorship dollars. I am confident JMU, ODU, Delaware, GSU and Jax State (to a lesser degree) compare much better in those areas than the overwhelming majority of FCS schools. #2: The facilities at these schools, or are in the process of building, have very little in common with all but a select few FCS programs and are much more on par with FBS programs. #3: Attendance (and please don't start with the size of enrollments in relationship to attendance), only 12 of of 117 FCS schools averaged the FBS mandated 15,000+ per game. The schools mentioned were #'s 1,4,5,6,7,& 9 (regular season) and their combined average was 19,134. The remaining SoCon & CAA schools averaged 8410. I could go on, but all this is getting a little old. If you can't see the difference in these programs you don't have your eyes open.Well stated. Lots of delusions of grandeur in the FCS crowd. They don't call it "moving UP " for nothing.

[SoCon48]

OUCH

[StorminASU]

I think that pretty much sums it up xlolx

[Apphole]

I can't wait to see what the little men say about that one. Good post.

[Apphole]

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/campusrivalry/post/2011/05/jim-calhoun-big-east-split/1


BE raids CUSA. App St to CUSA.

[StorminASU]

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/campusrivalry/post/2011/05/jim-calhoun-big-east-split/1


BE raids CUSA. App St to CUSA.


Thanks man, I read that and thought "YES, YES IT'S HAPPENED!!!" only to click the link and see that it's all guessing.

xsmhx

[Apphole]

Haha sorry for the tease. It's a likely prediction though. Just a matter of time