APR Announcement - Today, May 17th

[TexasTerror]

FYI -

APR is coming out at 10 a.m. Central/11 a.m. Eastern.

There's a few programs that were clearly heading in the wrong direction and as we've seen before, there is the potential for NCAA penalties that restrict postseason play.

[TTUEagles]

Where would we find this announcement, when it comes out?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Recognition is today - full data, including penalties, come next week.

[TexasTerror]

LFN is correct - penalties on the 24th...


The NCAA is honoring more than 900 Division I sports teams for their high marks academically.

The Association announced that 909 teams have earned Public Recognition Awards, based on their most recent multi-year Academic Progress Rates. These awards are given each year to teams scoring in the top 10 percent in each sport with their APRs.

Through its innovative APR, which provides an annual scorecard of academic achievement, the NCAA tracks the classroom performance of student-athletes on every Division I sports team.

Full APR scores for all teams, including penalties for low-performing teams, will be released May 24.

http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/public/ncaa/resources/latest+news/2011/may/teams+honored+for+top+grades+in+division+i

[superman7515]

And the award goes to....

Football FCS (2010 and later) Brown University RI 2009 - 2010
Football FCS (2010 and later) Bryant University RI 2009 - 2010
Football FCS (2010 and later) Columbia University-Barnard College NY 2009 - 2010
Football FCS (2010 and later) Cornell University NY 2009 - 2010
Football FCS (2010 and later) Dartmouth College NH 2009 - 2010
Football FCS (2010 and later) Davidson College NC 2009 - 2010
Football FCS (2010 and later) Harvard University MA 2009 - 2010
Football FCS (2010 and later) Princeton University NJ 2009 - 2010
Football FCS (2010 and later) University of Dayton OH 2009 - 2010
Football FCS (2010 and later) University of New Hampshire NH 2009 - 2010
Football FCS (2010 and later) University of Pennsylvania PA 2009 - 2010
Football FCS (2010 and later) Yale University CT

[R3TRO]

Nice job UNH!

[GannonFan]

Wow - no W&M this year?

[Tribe4SF]

Wow - no W&M this year?

First time in memory. No Patriot League schools either.

[LegalGaSouthernEagle]

Sam Baker whistling past a grave yard.

[superman7515]

There goes the Ivy/Patriot alliance. It's full scholly for the PL and Dartmouth vs UNH for the Gunnerus Medal.

[eaglewraith]

Sam Baker whistling past a grave yard.

Have you seen the score yet?

[LegalGaSouthernEagle]

Have you seen the score yet?Nope. But since everything else he touches turns to crap, I can only imagine.
In all seriousness, I'm sure it will be better. Thanks to Monken. Remember, Sam Baker is the guy who publicly admitted that he didn't understand the APR when we first got penalized. Let's hope the brain trust in that office has it figured out by now.

[eaglewraith]

Nope. But since everything else he touches turns to crap, I can only imagine.
In all seriousness, I'm sure it will be better. Thanks to Monken. Remember, Sam Baker is the guy who publicly admitted that he didn't understand the APR when we first got penalized. Let's hope the brain trust in that office has it figured out by now.

Actually you should thank BVG and Hatcher for improving the APR score. Monken's impact will only be for a small amount of time since this will only include the 2009-2010 academic year. I think this year the last Sewak score is removed from the average as well which is what was killing us so bad.

[Pard4Life]

16 of Lafayette's 24 teams were honored, but no football. We usually have several outstanding individual players though who get regional academic recognition and or PL scholar athlete.

[seantaylor]

Actually you should thank BVG and Hatcher for improving the APR score. Monken's impact will only be for a small amount of time since this will only include the 2009-2010 academic year. I think this year the last Sewak score is removed from the average as well which is what was killing us so bad.

Thank Hatcher? That guy had more attrition than anyone. And we were still down scholarships under his watch.

[Wildcat80]

And the award goes to....

Football FCS (2010 and later) Brown University RI 2009 - 2010
Football FCS (2010 and later) Bryant University RI 2009 - 2010
Football FCS (2010 and later) Columbia University-Barnard College NY 2009 - 2010
Football FCS (2010 and later) Cornell University NY 2009 - 2010
Football FCS (2010 and later) Dartmouth College NH 2009 - 2010
Football FCS (2010 and later) Davidson College NC 2009 - 2010
Football FCS (2010 and later) Harvard University MA 2009 - 2010
Football FCS (2010 and later) Princeton University NJ 2009 - 2010
Football FCS (2010 and later) University of Dayton OH 2009 - 2010
Football FCS (2010 and later) University of New Hampshire NH 2009 - 2010
Football FCS (2010 and later) University of Pennsylvania PA 2009 - 2010
Football FCS (2010 and later) Yale University CT

CONGRATULATIONS UNH Wildcat players, coaches & staff on a job well-done!

[eaglewraith]

Thank Hatcher? That guy had more attrition than anyone. And we were still down scholarships under his watch.

You graduated from GSU so I'm going to assume you know how an average works.

If you start low, even if you score high after that, you have to score unreasonably high to bring the average up. The low score we had rolls off the sheets this year. Every coach so far has improved the academics. The team had its highest combined GPA ever under Hatcher. The score progressively went up as well. You're saying he had nothing to do with that?

It's not rocket science.

[seantaylor]

You graduated from GSU so I'm going to assume you know how an average works.

If you start low, even if you score high after that, you have to score unreasonably high to bring the average up. The low score we had rolls off the sheets this year. Every coach so far has improved the academics. The team had its highest combined GPA ever under Hatcher. The score progressively went up as well. You're saying he had nothing to do with that?

It's not rocket science.

Whoops

[eaglewraith]

Whoops

Good that they've done ever better. Doesn't change the fact the academics got better under Hatcher.

[LegalGaSouthernEagle]

Good that they've done ever better. Doesn't change the fact the academics got better under Hatcher......and football got way worse under Hatcher and his cousins. Rube.

[Grizzaholic]

.....and football got way worse under Hatcher and his cousins. Rube.

Aren't the kids there for an education first and to play a game second?

[LegalGaSouthernEagle]

Aren't the kids there for an education first and to play a game second?The two are not mutually exclusive. Nice try though. I'm sure all montana cares about is academics. Right.
Good god, you are obssessed with me.xthumbsupx

[Grizzaholic]

No.. Just a question as you stated that football went south. I was just asking if you thought that the players should be there for an education first and foremost and to play a game second or if winning was all that mattered.


I wish the UofM had a better graduation rate, I really do. If it meant the team had to suffer, than so be it. Straight up HONEST.

[LegalGaSouthernEagle]

No.. Just a question as you stated that football went south. I was just asking if you thought that the players should be there for an education first and foremost and to play a game second or if winning was all that mattered.


I wish the UofM had a better graduation rate, I really do. If it meant the team had to suffer, than so be it. Straight up HONEST.We want to win. Part of that is keeping student athletes eligible. It's part of coaching at this level, and your type of rationale is for excuse-makers like Sam Baker when coaches don't get it done. Chris Hatcher and his cousins, did not get it done in either area in my opinion. Our player attrition rate under him was ridiculous.

[Grizzaholic]

We want to win. Part of that is keeping student athletes eligible. It's part of coaching at this level, and your type of rationale is for excuse-makers like Sam Baker when coaches don't get it done. Chris Hatcher and his cousins, did not get it done in either area in my opinion. Our player attrition rate under him was ridiculous.

I don't make excuses for coaches. It is their job to coach and win the game, but before they even get that chance I would hope that they make sure their players are graduating. Just making them eligible really doesn't cut it in my mind. If their grades are suffering due to the time they take out of their day to work out, eat, practice, go over film..etc... then the coach needs to sit them down and discuss what is the best for this student.

I know I am in the minority.

[eaglewraith]

.....and football got way worse under Hatcher and his cousins. Rube.

You wanna ***** and moan about the APR woes...I give facts in support of the APR improving but you counter with this argument. How do you ever even win a case in court? If you argue like this in front of a judge I'm surprised you don't spend your time in contempt of court.

The APR did improve under Hatcher and even BVG, that's a fact.

[eaglewraith]

We want to win. Part of that is keeping student athletes eligible. It's part of coaching at this level, and your type of rationale is for excuse-makers like Sam Baker when coaches don't get it done. Chris Hatcher and his cousins, did not get it done in either area in my opinion. Our player attrition rate under him was ridiculous.

We may have had attrition, but how many of those players were on scholarship? Players not on scholarship do not affect the APR. Maybe he was better at understanding how to work the APR than you think if the kids that were the risks were insulated from causing damage to the APR score by not being on scholarship.

So, you know all the details about Sam Baker posting on our board....can you reach in the magic hat and pull out the details about what players lost under Hatcher actually hurt the APR? Will you also refute the fact that the team set a record for team highest GPA prior to this year? Do you also want to make some predictions on what the APR will actually say since you are all knowing and omnipotent?

[LegalGaSouthernEagle]

You wanna ***** and moan about the APR woes...I give facts in support of the APR improving but you counter with this argument. How do you ever even win a case in court? If you argue like this in front of a judge I'm surprised you don't spend your time in contempt of court.

The APR did improve under Hatcher and even BVG, that's a fact.Everybody's a legal expert. Hilarious. Hey Rube, do you think I temper my behavior depending on the forum? Duh.
Perhaps you don't understand the nuance of my point. Shocker. The APR improved under Hatcher, but our attrition rate was way up. I'm saying that the APR score probably could've been even better than it was under Hatcher, and we would have gotten out of the hole quicker. You can't deny that the attrition rate was sky high under Hatcher and his cousins.

[LegalGaSouthernEagle]

...can you reach in the magic hat and pull out the details about what players lost under Hatcher actually hurt the APR? Will you also refute the fact that the team set a record for team highest GPA prior to this year? Do you also want to make some predictions on what the APR will actually say since you are all knowing and omnipotent?Why don't you tell me those things. You're the one making the case for Hatcher and his cousins. That crap about scholarship players vs. non-scholarship is garbage. We lost a ton of scholarshiped players under hatcher and his cousins.
ANd I'll go out on a limb and say, if we had our highest GPA this year, as was announced today, then I guess our APR score will be higher. That's what happens when you have actual D-1 coaches running the show and not Hatcher and his cousn's high school act. Apparently you are a huge fan of the bubble screen.

[cmaxwellgsu]

Are Opie and 'skins one and the same? Twins? Father-son? Just curious, after noticing the identical opinions, insults, etc.

[eaglewraith]

Why don't you tell me those things. You're the one making the case for Hatcher and his cousins. That crap about scholarship players vs. non-scholarship is garbage. We lost a ton of scholarshiped players under hatcher and his cousins.
ANd I'll go out on a limb and say, if we had our highest GPA this year, as was announced today, then I guess our APR score will be higher. That's what happens when you have actual D-1 coaches running the show and not Hatcher and his cousn's high school act. Apparently you are a huge fan of the bubble screen.

I've read the APR report every year so I know the scores continually went higher. Apparently you don't really realize how it works either because Monken's input on the APR this year will be minimal since the latest it will be is 2009-2010 academic year which was shared with....OMG Hatcher. If you also paid attention to the years used in the average, you'd realize this year the last score from when Sewak was coach will finally roll off and the average should jump a good bit just from losing that really low score. There has been a lot of work to improve things but I do agree that Baker is at fault for the problems we've had just because of his lack of understanding. I do however think credit is due to people who have worked to fix things, where all you want to do is bash Baker and not acknowledge the positives at all.

Yes we did have attrition. I have not tried to argue against that. I am however shocked to see you admit that it did get better under Hatcher though. Maybe you should help convince your boy of that because he's quite clueless.

I hated the way that Hatcher was shown the door, and you should agree that no one deserved to get cut loose the way he did. The way it was done was underhanded and the man deserved more than that no matter what you thought of him as a coach. I am not sad to see the return of the option at all. Do not confuse my arguments in this thread as being pro/con Hatcher....I'm talking about academics which is the subject of this thread.

Throughout our conversation, if you can call it that, I have not once called you any kind of names. Why is it that you resort to that just as soon as someone offers an opposing opinion? I'm starting to believe you're like Bill O'Reilly and would scream at anyone in an argument and then mute them before they can respond....although they're being the reasonable ones.

[LegalGaSouthernEagle]

I've read the APR report every year so I know the scores continually went higher. Apparently you don't really realize how it works either because Monken's input on the APR this year will be minimal since the latest it will be is 2009-2010 academic year which was shared with....OMG Hatcher. If you also paid attention to the years used in the average, you'd realize this year the last score from when Sewak was coach will finally roll off and the average should jump a good bit just from losing that really low score. There has been a lot of work to improve things but I do agree that Baker is at fault for the problems we've had just because of his lack of understanding. I do however think credit is due to people who have worked to fix things, where all you want to do is bash Baker and not acknowledge the positives at all.

Yes we did have attrition. I have not tried to argue against that. I am however shocked to see you admit that it did get better under Hatcher though. Maybe you should help convince your boy of that because he's quite clueless.

I hated the way that Hatcher was shown the door, and you should agree that no one deserved to get cut loose the way he did. The way it was done was underhanded and the man deserved more than that no matter what you thought of him as a coach. I am not sad to see the return of the option at all. Do not confuse my arguments in this thread as being pro/con Hatcher....I'm talking about academics which is the subject of this thread. Hatcher was an idiot. You all can blame the evil Grube, or as I like to call him Sam Baker's latest scapegoat, but Grube was clearly in the right when he fired Hatcher and his cousins. Hatcher got fired because he went outside of the chain of command. Apparently, Grube was upset that Hatcher had kneecapped him in a speaking engagement, where Hatcher basically blamed the administration for his losing because the administration was requiring recruits/players to meet certain criteria for grades, etc.

Hatcher's on-field product sucked, and when he spoke out of turn and against the direct request of Grube to not mae that a public debate, he gave Grube free license to fire him. He was begging for it with that kind of insubordination. Hatcher has nobody to blame but himself and his ego. If he had simply voiced his beef with the academic requirements in a professional manner to his bosses, and not in public, then maybe he would still be here today. Thank god he isn't though. Hatcher was trying to publicly bully Grube into doing what he wanted with admission requirements, and so I have no problem with the way Grube handled Hatcher's firing. If Hatcher wanted respect and to be treated professionally, then he should have acted that way with his bosses in this dispute.


Throughout our conversation, if you can call it that, I have not once called you any kind of names. Why is it that you resort to that just as soon as someone offers an opposing opinion? I'm starting to believe you're like Bill O'Reilly and would scream at anyone in an argument and then mute them before they can respond....although they're being the reasonable ones.First thing you said to me, unsolicited, was something about me getting popped in the lip by your buddies. I didn't take kindly to it. So for that reason, blame yourself for my tone with you.
As for me saying anything positive about Sam Baker, there is nothing. He literally is the worst A.D. by far on our level. No question about it. He's lazy, incompetent, arrogant, non-communicative, and divisive.

[seantaylor]

I've read the APR report every year so I know the scores continually went higher. Apparently you don't really realize how it works either because Monken's input on the APR this year will be minimal since the latest it will be is 2009-2010 academic year which was shared with....OMG Hatcher. If you also paid attention to the years used in the average, you'd realize this year the last score from when Sewak was coach will finally roll off and the average should jump a good bit just from losing that really low score. There has been a lot of work to improve things but I do agree that Baker is at fault for the problems we've had just because of his lack of understanding. I do however think credit is due to people who have worked to fix things, where all you want to do is bash Baker and not acknowledge the positives at all.

Yes we did have attrition. I have not tried to argue against that. I am however shocked to see you admit that it did get better under Hatcher though. Maybe you should help convince your boy of that because he's quite clueless.

I hated the way that Hatcher was shown the door, and you should agree that no one deserved to get cut loose the way he did. The way it was done was underhanded and the man deserved more than that no matter what you thought of him as a coach. I am not sad to see the return of the option at all. Do not confuse my arguments in this thread as being pro/con Hatcher....I'm talking about academics which is the subject of this thread.

Throughout our conversation, if you can call it that, I have not once called you any kind of names. Why is it that you resort to that just as soon as someone offers an opposing opinion? I'm starting to believe you're like Bill O'Reilly and would scream at anyone in an argument and then mute them before they can respond....although they're being the reasonable ones.

This is just flat out stupid logic. Sammy didn't know what APR was, the rube he is. We could have brought in the shot putter from the special Olympics and our APR would have improved. APR didn't improve as much as it should have under Hatcher. We were still losing schollies because his cousins were bringing in gangbangers that had no chance to pass a class.

I truly hope you don't believe Hatcher did anything unusual or beyond the norm to raise APR. Guy just cared about winning, but realized he wasn't in D2 anymore.

[seantaylor]

http://www.releaselog.net/uploads/2cdc73bf41432b6cebeee5e455099e58.jpg

"But she(he) white(southern)."

[eaglewraith]

First thing you said to me, unsolicited, was something about me getting popped in the lip by your buddies. I didn't take kindly to it. So for that reason, blame yourself for my tone with you.
As for me saying anything positive about Sam Baker, there is nothing. He literally is the worst A.D. by far on our level. No question about it. He's lazy, incompetent, arrogant, non-communicative, and divisive.

Apparently they don't teach you context in law school.

What I said was that I've heard you are very civil and pleasant to talk to. I then asked if it was because that's how you truly are or is it because you realize somebody could bust your lip for talking like you do on here. What that means is that I know for a fact there are people in that tailgate lot that would bust you up if you acted a fool like this to their face. I wasn't threatening you at all. The only reports I have of people talking to you in the tailgate lot is from the Red Flag gang and those people aren't my buddies...we don't tailgate together and none of them would be able to identify me if they saw me. I was just using statements given by them to try and deduce why it is you act like you do online and not the same way in person.

Once again, context is important.

What kind of context has it been in when you've called me names?

Also I'm not asking you to applaud anything about Sam Baker. I'm saying you should acknowledge the positives done by the coaching staff and the players.

[eaglewraith]

http://www.releaselog.net/uploads/2cdc73bf41432b6cebeee5e455099e58.jpg

"But she(he) white(southern)."

Everyone should be scared that you've been allowed to procreate.

[LegalGaSouthernEagle]

Apparently they don't teach you context in law school.

What I said was that I've heard you are very civil and pleasant to talk to. I then asked if it was because that's how you truly are or is it because you realize somebody could bust your lip for talking like you do on here. What that means is that I know for a fact there are people in that tailgate lot that would bust you up if you acted a fool like this to their face. I wasn't threatening you at all. The only reports I have of people talking to you in the tailgate lot is from the Red Flag gang and those people aren't my buddies...we don't tailgate together and none of them would be able to identify me if they saw me. I was just using statements given by them to try and deduce why it is you act like you do online and not the same way in person.

Once again, context is important.

What kind of context has it been in when you've called me names?.This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. What are you blatherng about?

So effing what if there are people in the lot who would try to "bust me in my lip" if I pissed them off. That's just the world. I assume that most of them know that the favor would be returned and a price would be paid. That's probably why nobody has ever stepped to me at Paulson, regardless of what has been said. If somebody said some of the things as stupid as the stuff I've read about GSU, and Sam Baker, etc, on messageboards, I'll call them a dumbass to their face just as quick as I would here. That's a fact, and you can probably ask your sources. I don't go around looking for fights at football games, dude. However, I won't back down from one either. A couple of the people in the red flag gang are friends of mine. Some others, maybe not so much. Doesn't matter. On saturday, I'm ready to root for the Eagles. That's what you don't get. Do me a favor though. Get off my nuts and quit talking about me amongst your buddies. I don't know you, and don't really want to at ths point. Peace out.

[LegalGaSouthernEagle]

Hope I don't get my lip busted.xthumbsdownx

[blueballs]

Just to step in the middle of the Southern pissing match and point out some positives, because just about all the negatives are water under the bridge at this point...

a) It is now pretty obvious that Baker ain't going anywhere until he gets the gold watch. The guy is teflon regardless of how big a f-up he is. He should have been run after the playoff bidding fasco IMO and his idiotic scheduling is going to make qualifying for the playoffs this year way harder than it needs to be. However, as bad as Baker and Grube are/were, Keel is the man. He just gets it in so many ways- and I ain't talking just sports. The university is in GOOD hands now.

b) GSU just turned in the highest GPA in the history of the program with one of the youngest groups of kids the program has ever had. As impressive as the playoff run was given the youth of the team to back it up in the classroom is just icing on the cake. The program is in good hands with Jeff Monken and his staff.

c) GSU just made the semis playing with about 57-58 scholarships if my math is right. Soon the program will return to the full compliment and that bodes well for the future.

The future is really bright again in the 'boro despite Baker. That's what we should all take away from this and good times lie ahead.

[LegalGaSouthernEagle]

Just to step in the middle of the Southern pissing match and point out some positives, because just about all the negatives are water under the bridge at this point...

a) It is now pretty obvious that Baker ain't going anywhere until he gets the gold watch. The guy is teflon regardless of how big a f-up he is. He should have been run after the playoff bidding fasco IMO and his idiotic scheduling is going to make qualifying for the playoffs this year way harder than it needs to be. However, as bad as Baker and Grube are/were, Keel is the man. He just gets it in so many ways- and I ain't talking just sports. The university is in GOOD hands now.

b) GSU just turned in the highest GPA in the history of the program with one of the youngest groups of kids the program has ever had. As impressive as the playoff run was given the youth of the team to back it up in the classroom is just icing on the cake. The program is in good hands with Jeff Monken and his staff.

c) GSU just made the semis playing with about 57-58 scholarships if my math is right. Soon the program will return to the full compliment and that bodes well for the future.

The future is really bright again in the 'boro despite Baker. That's what we should all take away from this and good times lie ahead.
I actually agree with you. Though, I reserve judgment on Keel until I see something real. I like the few rumors I have heard about his plans, but I want to see real action. Firing Sam Baker would be a symbolic gesture that would probably convince me that Keel knows wht he's doing. I am hopeful that him keeping sam Baker around is just a way to keep Sam's cronies' money in play. I just hope that all decsion-making power has been stripped from Baker, because he has continuously miscalculated and hurt the school.

[seantaylor]

Apparently they don't teach you context in law school.

What I said was that I've heard you are very civil and pleasant to talk to. I then asked if it was because that's how you truly are or is it because you realize somebody could bust your lip for talking like you do on here. What that means is that I know for a fact there are people in that tailgate lot that would bust you up if you acted a fool like this to their face. I wasn't threatening you at all. The only reports I have of people talking to you in the tailgate lot is from the Red Flag gang and those people aren't my buddies...we don't tailgate together and none of them would be able to identify me if they saw me. I was just using statements given by them to try and deduce why it is you act like you do online and not the same way in person.

Once again, context is important.

What kind of context has it been in when you've called me names?

Also I'm not asking you to applaud anything about Sam Baker. I'm saying you should acknowledge the positives done by the coaching staff and the players.

Umm, yeah.

[seantaylor]

Everyone should be scared that you've been allowed to procreate.

With the trim you pull, maybe one day, playboy.

[eaglewraith]

With the trim you pull, maybe one day, playboy.

Nice contribution to the conversation. Any more words of wisdom to share with us all or are you just going to continue to lower the collective IQ of everyone reading this dumb **** you always seem to post?

[LegalGaSouthernEagle]

With the trim you pull, maybe one day, playboy.haha.

[LeadBolt]

Does anyone know if there is a grace period or if there are different rules for new programs? If so, how does that work?

[LegalGaSouthernEagle]

Whatever you do, don't ask GSU A.D. Sam Baker that question. He is apparently still trying to figure out how the formula works. Ga Southern docked 4.5 scholarships this year. Way to go Chris Hatcher and your cousins. Thanks.

[LegalGaSouthernEagle]

I've read the APR report every year so I know the scores continually went higher. Apparently you don't really realize how it works either because Monken's input on the APR this year will be minimal since the latest it will be is 2009-2010 academic year which was shared with....OMG Hatcher. If you also paid attention to the years used in the average, you'd realize this year the last score from when Sewak was coach will finally roll off and the average should jump a good bit just from losing that really low score. There has been a lot of work to improve things but I do agree that Baker is at fault for the problems we've had just because of his lack of understanding. I do however think credit is due to people who have worked to fix things, where all you want to do is bash Baker and not acknowledge the positives at all. Ga Southern docked 4 scholarships for this upcoming year. Thank you Chris Hatcher. You and your cousins did a great job.xsmileyclapx
Eaglewraith, do you understand now that attrition rate has a huge effect on the APR number regardless of team GPA? We could have the highest GPA in division I, but if we keep losing players at the rate we did under Hatcher, then the APR will continue to penalize us.
Yet another example of how Hatcher and his cousins were in way over their heads at GSU.

[LeadBolt]

Whatever you do, don't ask GSU A.D. Sam Baker that question. He is apparently still trying to figure out how the formula works. Ga Southern docked 4.5 scholarships this year. Way to go Chris Hatcher and your cousins. Thanks.

I was curious how ODU might be impacted with the 896 number I've heard they had achieved.

[eaglewraith]

Ga Southern docked 4 scholarships for this upcoming year. Thank you Chris Hatcher. You and your cousins did a great job.xsmileyclapx
Eaglewraith, do you understand now that attrition rate has a huge effect on the APR number regardless of team GPA? We could have the highest GPA in division I, but if we keep losing players at the rate we did under Hatcher, then the APR will continue to penalize us.
Yet another example of how Hatcher and his cousins were in way over their heads at GSU.

The score went down for the 2009-2010 academic year......half of which falls on Monken. So by your logic Monken is garbage.

[Tribal]

I was curious how ODU might be impacted with the 896 number I've heard they had achieved.

I've heard more than 6 scholarships...gone.

[LegalGaSouthernEagle]

The score went down for the 2009-2010 academic year......half of which falls on Monken. So by your logic Monken is garbage.
You wrote the below statement on page 3
Monken's impact will only be for a small amount of time since this will only include the 2009-2010 academic yearI love how you wanted to give Hatcher all the credit when you thought the number was going to be good, but when it's bad you want to go after Monken.



I never disputed that Monken's impact wouldn't be as great as the guy who was here 3 years before. Look, dude. I have no idea why you are a flea on Hatcher's nuts, but whatever. The bottom line is that your boy didn't do a heck of a lot to turn around the APR. His attrition rate was through the roof in every year of his tenure. Monken just finished year one, so his high attrition rate is a built in given for any new coach. If Monken's rate of attrition stays as high as it was in year one, then I'll be the first to tell you he needs to pull it together.
I'm sorry to inform you that Hatcher and his cousin's are still hurting GSU because they brought in a lot of high risk players. That's what Hatcher does by the way. He brings in a bunch of transfers from higher divisions. he did it at Valdosta, he tried to do it at GSU, and I'll bet you Murray's Meats State is loaded with transfers. At least Monken wins games.
On a side note, I really think you better go study up more on the APR if you're goin to continue to claim to be so knowledgable about it.

[eaglewraith]

You wrote the below statement on page 3 I love how you wanted to give Hatcher all the credit when you thought the number was going to be good, but when it's bad you want to go after Monken.



I never disputed that Monken's impact wouldn't be as great as the guy who was here 3 years before. Look, dude. I have no idea why you are a flea on Hatcher's nuts, but whatever. The bottom line is that your boy didn't do a heck of a lot to turn around the APR. His attrition rate was through the roof in every year of his tenure. Monken just finished year one, so his high attrition rate is a built in given for any new coach. If Monken's rate of attrition stays as high as it was in year one, then I'll be the first to tell you he needs to pull it together.
I'm sorry to inform you that Hatcher and his cousin's are still hurting GSU because they brought in a lot of high risk players. That's what Hatcher does by the way. He brings in a bunch of transfers from higher divisions. he did it at Valdosta, he tried to do it at GSU, and I'll bet you Murray's Meats State is loaded with transfers. At least Monken wins games.
On a side note, I really think you better go study up more on the APR if you're goin to continue to claim to be so knowledgable about it.

Notice I said YOUR logic, not mine. My biggest problem with you is that you fail to acknowledge the positives, while also criticizing the negatives. No I was not happy with the direction things were headed in with Hatcher. The onfield performance was getting pretty lackluster. Yes attrition was a problem (although I have yet to see any hard numbers about who was on scholarship or not which would affect APR). It seems that since the yearly score was actually lower for 09-10 that more scholarship players left during the coaching switch than had left previously since the scores had been continuously going up. This could be attributed to Hatcher and Monken combined honestly since Hatcher's guys took off and and then Monken run off some more once he got in place. I'm not saying either one is at fault, but the fact remains they were both the cause of it. Hatcher may have added to the mess with the APR to some degree, but it's not as bad as everyone thinks. When I have some more time I'll go back and look at the previous scores to try and see what the trend was.

Walk-ons leaving the program do not affect the APR. Players that leave in good standing only affect the APR half as much. Players in good standing who leave the team and stay in school til graduation do not hurt the APR at all. Each player counts for 2 pts, 1 for academic standing and 1 for retention. Take the number of points/total possible points and multiply by 1000. This gives you your score. Yep I think I know how it works.

If you would take the time to acknowledge more of the positives while also bashing the negatives your views would be accepted more. You have to give something to get something....people can handle harsh criticism a lot better if they have a grain of positive in there. I agree that there are few positives to list in regards to Baker so I don't know what can be said about that, and you'll never hear me say anything positive about BVG because of how he left us high and dry (other than the fact that the defense wasn't all that bad that year and that he did kick start the upswing in academics). Hatcher came into a job with the bar set way above his ability at the time, he just didn't realize it. And while he may have needed to go, there was still no reason for him to get treated the way he did at the end of the season. I'm not a Hatcher fan, but I think people should be treated with some measure of dignity and Hatcher was not given that. The good things they've done should also not be forgotten, even if it's prefaced by the bad they should still get credit for the good things.

For all your bashing of Baker, you should be coming down just as hard as Grube cause he was onboard with all this crap when it happened. Not just the Hatcher thing, but everything you are so vehemently against (soccer stadium, severing ties with the Russell family, axing the option, etc). If things with Keel happen as it looks like they may with all the rumors, I think it's going to show that Baker has been a lame duck all along and only doing what the man in charge wanted him to do. If all this happens with Baker still as AD, would you admit that your rage was misplaced and that Grube was basically the one who damaged our program?

[LegalGaSouthernEagle]

For all your bashing of Baker, you should be coming down just as hard as Grube cause he was onboard with all this crap when it happened. Not just the Hatcher thing, but everything you are so vehemently against (soccer stadium, severing ties with the Russell family, axing the option, etc). If things with Keel happen as it looks like they may with all the rumors, I think it's going to show that Baker has been a lame duck all along and only doing what the man in charge wanted him to do. If all this happens with Baker still as AD, would you admit that your rage was misplaced and that Grube was basically the one who damaged our program?No. Not a chance.
I've been right all along about Sam Baker.

God, you are blind. You and the rest of the Sam apologists will never admit that he has done tremendous damage to our program. How many times does Sam have to plainly say that he is against moving up before you believe it. Jesus christ!
He has literally said that he doesn't see the value in moving up. Nothing has changed on that note.
Grube took his athletic advice from Baker, not the other way around.
In fact, there where many occassions where people would directly ask Grube about moving up, and he would at least say that it would happen in time. Sam on the other hand would outright reject the question, and then go on the attack.

It doesn't take a genius to figure out that the one constant in the past 15 years of stagnation is Sam Baker. You are are a fool if you are going to let Baker scapegoat Grube for 15 years of athletic stagnation.

If any of these improvements(which by the way were just moved back 2 years) happen while Baker is still here, it will be despite him. Not because he was somehow chained down while Grube was here and is now unleashed. Are you kidding?!! The guy can't even figure out how to put together a bid for a playoff game. Do you really think he's competent enough to lead a move to I-A? Come on.
Wake up!!!

[TexasTerror]

Article includes references to penalties on Southern & Grambling...

http://www.sportsnola.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=572650&Itemid=578

[eaglewraith]

No. Not a chance.
I've been right all along about Sam Baker.

God, you are blind. You and the rest of the Sam apologists will never admit that he has done tremendous damage to our program. How many times does Sam have to plainly say that he is against moving up before you believe it. Jesus christ!
He has literally said that he doesn't see the value in moving up. Nothing has changed on that note.
Grube took his athletic advice from Baker, not the other way around.
In fact, there where many occassions where people would directly ask Grube about moving up, and he would at least say that it would happen in time. Sam on the other hand would outright reject the question, and then go on the attack.

It doesn't take a genius to figure out that the one constant in the past 15 years of stagnation is Sam Baker. You are are a fool if you are going to let Baker scapegoat Grube for 15 years of athletic stagnation.

If any of these improvements(which by the way were just moved back 2 years) happen while Baker is still here, it will be despite him. Not because he was somehow chained down while Grube was here and is now unleashed. Are you kidding?!! The guy can't even figure out how to put together a bid for a playoff game. Do you really think he's competent enough to lead a move to I-A? Come on.
Wake up!!!

God I want to be be rid of Baker too. I was pissed about the whole bid thing last year especially. I would agree that these things wouldn't be happening if Keel wasn't there, but you can't deny the effect Grube (Mr I Don't Do Sports Interviews) had on the program. Even if Baker was a go-getter, he would have still been opressed by a tyrannical president who cared nothing for athletics. The way he cut Hatcher off at the knees just goes to show you how much he cared about the football program, cause there's no way in hell he fired him for production on the field....the man didn't give a **** if we ever did anything in football ever again. If you deny that then you are the one that is blind, Grube is just as at fault. And how the hell am I a Baker apologist? I've never said I'd rather have him than someone else. Hell I'd rather have you in there than him, does that say enough for you?

As for pushing them 2 years, I've seen the completion date shift to Jan 2013 which is not 2 years from the original completion of Aug 2012.

[LegalGaSouthernEagle]

God I want to be be rid of Baker too. I was pissed about the whole bid thing last year especially. I would agree that these things wouldn't be happening if Keel wasn't there, but you can't deny the effect Grube (Mr I Don't Do Sports Interviews) had on the program. Even if Baker was a go-getter, he would have still been opressed by a tyrannical president who cared nothing for athletics. The way he cut Hatcher off at the knees just goes to show you how much he cared about the football program, cause there's no way in hell he fired him for production on the field....the man didn't give a **** if we ever did anything in football ever again. If you deny that then you are the one that is blind, Grube is just as at fault. And how the hell am I a Baker apologist? I've never said I'd rather have him than someone else. Hell I'd rather have you in there than him, does that say enough for you?

You're a Baker apologist because you continue to blame others for Sam's incomptence. Can't you see that Grube is just the latest Sam scapegoat?!

1. It's a myth that Grube hurt our program; one put forth by Sam's minions on the GSU messageboard, so as to protect Sam. The fact is that Grube did a heck of a lot for GSU in terms of buildings on campus, increasing our admission requirements, and raising the student population to 20,000. The fact of the matter is that a GSU degree has a lot more value today than it did 10 years ago, thanks to Bruce Grube. The other fact is that while all this expansion and campus construction was going on, the A.D.'s office did basically nothing to keep up with the growth of the rest of the University. Brick pavers? Blaming Grube for that inaction, and not Sam, is a red herring.
Do you know how you can tell that this is true? Ask yourself how much has Sam Baker been out in the front leading the charge on these new projects? How much have you heard from Sam lately in the public, regarding anything for that matter? The answer is ZERO. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that Baker is being completely marginalized by Keel. Keel has a gag order on Sam. It's obvious. But now he needs to drop the hammer and fire the rube.

2. Hatcher cut himself off at the knees by directly disobeying an order from his superior, and by talking about an in-house matter in the public and behind Grube's back. Name me one organization where a subordinate like hatcher can publicly rip his superiors without punishment? As I said in an earlier post, Hatcher has nothing to blame for his firing except his horrible on-field product, and his own arrogance in thinking that he was untouchable. He probably could've gotten away wth his insubordination if his teams weren't so pathetic on the field. That's just coaching. Hatcher got fired because he shot off his mouth, and disresepcted the president of the University. the fact that he was then fired in the same disrespectful manner is just, in my opinion. Hatcher reaped what he sowed, and his ego is what got him canned.

3. Grube a "tyrannical president"?! Oh boy, you really do believe everything you read on gsufans.com, don't you. Grube got stuff done on campus. It's undeniable that he took the University as a whole to another level during his tenure. Any assumption that he didn't care about athletics is just that, an assumption. I find it amusing that you Sam followers are always quick to label the man as somehow "oppressed". As if Sam would be Mr. Energy and a real go-getter if Grube was gone?! Grube's been gone for a year now. Have you heard anything new from Sam on this isssues that he was supposedly being held back on? Come on. You're smarter than this. Show me one shred of evidence that says Grube didn't care if we were any good in football again? It doesn't exist. President Grube understood the importance of football at GSU. Was he as into at Keel is? No way. But to say that he was somehow actively holding us back is just ridiculous when you view that statement in the light of all the other things he did to grow GSU. Again, Sam is the constant through 3 different presidents.

If you really want what is best for the university, then you would be clamouring for sam's head as loudly as I am.

[seantaylor]

And the hits keep on coming. APR hammers us once again. Chris Hatcher's last year was the culprit. So, the ridiculous idea that Hatcher was helping APR is out the window.

No one is held accountable again. I'm still withholding judgement on Keel. Anybody with any kind of intelligence would have already fired the root of this problem. Sammy still skating by. Too many rubes like him in the fold to hold him accountable.

[Baldy]

1. It's a myth that Grube hurt our program; one put forth by Sam's minions on the GSU messageboard, so as to protect Sam. The fact is that Grube did a heck of a lot for GSU in terms of buildings on campus, increasing our admission requirements, and raising the student population to 20,000. The fact of the matter is that a GSU degree has a lot more value today than it did 10 years ago, thanks to Bruce Grube. The other fact is that while all this expansion and campus construction was going on, the A.D.'s office did basically nothing to keep up with the growth of the rest of the University. Brick pavers? Blaming Grube for that inaction, and not Sam, is a red herring.
Do you know how you can tell that this is true? Ask yourself how much has Sam Baker been out in the front leading the charge on these new projects? How much have you heard from Sam lately in the public, regarding anything for that matter? The answer is ZERO. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that Baker is being completely marginalized by Keel. Keel has a gag order on Sam. It's obvious. But now he needs to drop the hammer and fire the rube.
There is no doubt that Grube did an unbelievable job elevating GSU academically during his tenure. You will also never hear even the most anti-Grube person out there deny that fact. However, the preponderance of the evidence shows that, at best, Grube was as indifferent to the success of athletics at GSU as the President of New Mexico State. Do yourself a favor and talk to some of the rank and file in the athletic department, you will learn quite a bit. It isn't a quirk of fate that GSU has won 3X the number of SoCon championships in Keel's 1+ years as President than Grube won in his last 5.


2. Hatcher cut himself off at the knees by directly disobeying an order from his superior, and by talking about an in-house matter in the public and behind Grube's back. Name me one organization where a subordinate like hatcher can publicly rip his superiors without punishment? As I said in an earlier post, Hatcher has nothing to blame for his firing except his horrible on-field product, and his own arrogance in thinking that he was untouchable. He probably could've gotten away wth his insubordination if his teams weren't so pathetic on the field. That's just coaching. Hatcher got fired because he shot off his mouth, and disresepcted the president of the University. the fact that he was then fired in the same disrespectful manner is just, in my opinion. Hatcher reaped what he sowed, and his ego is what got him canned.
It's obvious you didn't hear or read the transcripts of Hatcher's comments. He didn't 'rip' or 'disrespect' his superiors. He mentioned a controversial policy dictated by Grube placed onto the athletic department that Grube didn't want the public to see the light of day. Of course Hatcher shouldn't have said anything about this policy, but I can understand his frustration. When all was said and done, Hatcher got the last laugh. Grube's true colors were shown and he was the one who looked like the vindictive jackass he really is.


3. Grube a "tyrannical president"?! Oh boy, you really do believe everything you read on gsufans.com, don't you. Grube got stuff done on campus. It's undeniable that he took the University as a whole to another level during his tenure. Any assumption that he didn't care about athletics is just that, an assumption. I find it amusing that you Sam followers are always quick to label the man as somehow "oppressed". As if Sam would be Mr. Energy and a real go-getter if Grube was gone?! Grube's been gone for a year now. Have you heard anything new from Sam on this isssues that he was supposedly being held back on? Come on. You're smarter than this. Show me one shred of evidence that says Grube didn't care if we were any good in football again? It doesn't exist. President Grube understood the importance of football at GSU. Was he as into at Keel is? No way. But to say that he was somehow actively holding us back is just ridiculous when you view that statement in the light of all the other things he did to grow GSU. Again, Sam is the constant through 3 different presidents.

Tyrannical president? According to several people I know personally who had to work for him, that description is much too kind. The most used adjectives I've heard about Grube have been that he was a 'micromanager' and a 'meddler'. Even with all his academic accomplishments while GSU's president, and aside from the 6 National Championship celebrations, the happiest day on campus for the faculty, staff, and employees of the university was the day Bruce Grube announced his resignation.

[LegalGaSouthernEagle]

I think likeability is overrated. Bruce Grube got stuff done, Chris. Our degrees are more valuable today because of that guy. As you yourself admitted, he did an unbelievable job in elevating GSU academically. Certainly that contribution to GSU was greater than anything Sam Baker has ever even come close to. When you say Grube was indifferent to athletics, I would characterize it a little differently. I would say that he recognized that he was out of his element in athletics, and deferred to Sam Baker to run the show. If I have any beef with Grube it is only that he allowed Sam to dictate our direction, or lack thereof.
Whether or not Grube was a likeable guy or not, a micromanager, or a complete jerk is totally irrelevant to me. The bottom line with Grube was that he got results on the academic side. Sam Baker on the other hand, is liked by a lot of people. That's one of the reasons he's been able to stay for so long. But he's also incompetent. Give me a guy who gets results over somebody I personally "like" anyday. Sometimes in order to get stuff done, you have to ruffle feathers.
I would say that Grube's main handicap was that he was considered to be "an outsider" in Statesboro. Perhaps Keel's biggest asset is that the people in Statesboro seem to think of Keel as one of their own at this point, and that may serve him well. i.e. a good ol; southern boy. That's fine with me, as long as he gets things done.
In terms of Keel getting things done, one of the best things he could do for public relations as a symbolic move, would be to fire Sam, or "kick him upstairs", as they say, into a consultants role with no real power.
The bottom line is that Sam is the one constant for roughly 15 years of nothing happening to move us forward. He never had a vision, and nobody thought that it mattered. Now we are paying the price watching App state get shopped for a spot that was rightfully ours 10 years ago.

[Baldy]

I think likeability is overrated. Bruce Grube got stuff done, Chris. Our degrees are more valuable today because of that guy. As you yourself admitte
d, he did an unbelievable job in elevating GSU academically. certainly that contribution to GSU s greater than anything Sam Baker has ever even come close to. When you say Grube was indifferent to athletics, I would characterize it a little differently. I would say that he recognized that he was out of his element in athletics, and deferred to Sam Baker to run the show. If I have any beef with Grube it is only that he allowed Sam to dictate our direction, or lack thereof.
Whether or not Grube was a likeable guy or not, a micromanager, or a complete jerk is totally to me. The bottom line with Grube was that he got results on the academic side. Sam Baker on the other hand, is liked by a lot of people. That's one of the reasons he's been able to stay for so long. But he's also incompetent. Give me a guy who gets results over somebody I personally "like" anyday. Sometimes in order to get stuff done, you have to ruffle feathers.
I would say that grube's main detraction was that he was considered to be "an outsider" in Statesboro. Perhaps Keel's biggest asset is that the people in Statesboro seem to think of Keel as one of their own at this point, and that may serve him well. i.e. a good ol; southern boy. That's fine with e, as long as he gets things done.
In terms of Keel getting things done, one of the best things he could do for simple public relations as a symbolic move, would be to fire Sam, or "kick him upstairs" as they say, into a consultants role with no real power.
The bottom line is that Sam is the one constant for roughly 15 years of nothing happening to move us forward. He never had a vision, and nobody thought that it mattered. Now we are paying the price watching App state get shopped for a spot that was rightfully ours 10 years ago.

Believe me, Joe. In no way did he defer to Sam Baker to run the show and in no way did Baker dictate the direction of GSU athletics. Grube micromanaged virtually every aspect of the university, athletics definitely included. Let me clarify, Grube was indifferent to our success, but he was in the kitchen and had his finger in there stirring the pot.

I'm with you, Sam's time has long come and gone, but it wouldn't have mattered who the athletic director was when Grube was the President. The vision and direction of the athletic department went through the President's office, not the AD's. I believe it's the same way now, but we finally have a President who understands the value a successful athletic department.

[LegalGaSouthernEagle]

Believe me, Joe. In no way did he defer to Sam Baker to run the show and in no way did Baker dictate the direction of GSU athletics. Grube micromanaged virtually every aspect of the university, athletics definitely included. Let me clarify, Grube was indifferent to our success, but he was in the kitchen and had his finger in there stirring the pot. So you're saying that Grube specifically instructed Sam Baker to :
1. Fire sewak and hire BVG
2. Hire Chris Hatcher
3. Hire Jeff Monken
4. Publicly state on numerous occassions that GSU is not interested in FBS at all, and that he "doesn't see the value in it".
5. Publicly rip the Sunbelt Conference for no reason.
6. Only conduct single interviews for coaching "searches".
7. Build the soccer field in the Paulson lot.
8. scale back projects like the bishop building, parrish building, etc.
9. operate without anything resembling a clear vision for athletics, and build piecemeal projects that need to be redone 5 years after construction.
10. get bent over on negotiations for I-A payout games
11. do little to nothing to increase our fundraising footprint.
.........I could go on and on. I know I've missed a few big ones on this list.


Sorry, Baldy. I'm not buying it. Sam Baker screws up everything he touches. You know that as well as I do.
It's just way too convenient to blame the exited Grube for all of Sam's foul ups over the past 15 years. I've heard all the interviews, read all the articles, and heard Sam speak on these subjects. Either Sam Baker is an acadamey award-caliber actor, or he truly believed that what he was doing over his long tenure was the right thing for GSU. My bet is on the latter.

................it wouldn't have mattered who the athletic director was when Grube was the President. The vision and direction of the athletic department went through the President's office, not the AD's. where's the proof on this? Anectdotal evidence from a few annoyed employees? No thanks. I'm not buying it. For some reason, there is a culture that surrounds GSU where people feel the need to protect Sam Baker. This is a perfect example.
I have no idea why you are blaming the guy who is gone(the one who actually got stuff done on campus), over the guy who remains and has clearly been marginalized.
Sam Baker is famous for his quotes where he said that 'vision was overrated', sometimes "you have to scale back your dreams", that he 'didn't understand' simple processes like the APR and the playoff bid protocol.

You're confusing effectiveness with a popularity contest. Grube may have been a hands on leader. That will sometimes tick people off because they feel pressure. People who don't want to work hard, don't like working for these types of managers. The bottom line though is that Grube, with his unpopular management style, got things done. Sam on the other hand, walks around the lot, shakes hands, wears khakis and keds, and utilizes a "hands off" style of management". It's no wonder that he is more popular than Grube in the minds of the people you talked to.

We can go around and around on this. I have no desire to do so. I guess what pisses me off is that after all that has gone on(and not gone on) over the past 15 years, Sam Baker still seems to escape any blame. How does that happen? As I have said, Sam and his cronies are masters at finding a various scapegoat for his screw ups.
Whether it's BVG, hatcher, Grube, or somebody who had a baby when it was time to make the bids for playoff games. It's always anybody's fault but Sam Baker's.
That dog simply won't hunt anymore.

[Baldy]

So you're saying that Grube specifically instructed Sam Baker to :
1. Fire sewak and hire BVG
2. Hire Chris Hatcher
3. Hire Jeff Monken
4. Publicly state on numerous occassions that GSU is not interested in FBS at all, and that he "doesn't see the value in it".
5. Publicly rip the Sunbelt Conference for no reason.
6. Only conduct single interviews for coaching "searches".
7. Build the soccer field in the Paulson lot.
8. scale back projects like the bishop building, parrish building, etc.
9. operate without anything resembling a clear vision for athletics, and build piecemeal projects that need to be redone 5 years after construction.
10. get bent over on negotiations for I-A payout games
11. do little to nothing to increase our fundraising footprint.
.........I could go on and on. I know I've missed a few big ones on this list.

You can bet your mortgage that every one of those decisions had to get Grube's seal of approval before they happened. Another certainty is the soon to be announced $150M capital campaign and the new 55,000 sq ft. facility that will begin construction in October...they would have NEVER happened if Grube were still here.


Sorry, Baldy. I'm not buying it. Sam Baker screws up everything he touches. You know that as well as I do.
It's just way too convenient to blame the exited Grube for all of Sam's foul ups over the past 15 years. I've heard all the interviews, read all the articles, and heard Sam speak on these subjects. Either Sam Baker is an acadamey award-caliber actor, or he truly believed that what he was doing over his long tenure was the right thing for GSU. My bet is on the latter.
where's the proof on this? Anectdotal evidence from a few annoyed employees? No thanks. I'm not buying it. For some reason, there is a culture that surrounds GSU where people feel the need to protect Sam Baker. This is a perfect example.
I have no idea why you are blaming the guy who is gone(the one who actually got stuff done on campus), over the guy who remains and has clearly been marginalized.
Sam Baker is famous for his quotes where he said that 'vision was overrated', sometimes "you have to scale back your dreams", that he 'didn't understand' simple processes like the APR and the playoff bid protocol.

You're confusing effectiveness with a popularity contest. Grube may have been a hands on leader. That will sometimes tick people off because they feel pressure. People who don't want to work hard, don't like working for these types of managers. The bottom line though is that Grube, with his unpopular management style, got things done. Sam on the other hand, walks around the lot, shakes hands, wears khakis and keds, and utilizes a "hands off" style of management". It's no wonder that he is more popular than Grube in the minds of the people you talked to.

We can go around and around on this. I have no desire to do so. I guess what pisses me off is that after all that has gone on(and not gone on) over the past 15 years, Sam Baker still seems to escape any blame. How does that happen? As I have said, Sam and his cronies are masters at finding a various scapegoat for his screw ups.
Whether it's BVG, hatcher, Grube, or somebody who had a baby when it was time to make the bids for playoff games. It's always anybody's fault but Sam Baker's.
That dog simply won't hunt anymore.

You can defend Grube all you want. I have more than given him credit where credit is justifiably due. You are more than free to believe what you wish. We both believe that Sam has made many many unforgivable mistakes of his own doing and has lasted long past his shelf life, BUT I will take the combination of personal knowledge and the word of a few annoyed employees over pure speculation everyday.

[LegalGaSouthernEagle]

I'm simply by going what by Sam himself has said in the media and elsewhere, when he wasn't trying to cover up one of his mistakes. That's the real source.

[eaglewraith]

I'm simply by going what by Sam himself has said in the media and elsewhere, when he wasn't trying to cover up one of his mistakes. That's the real source.

So you always believe what you read from the media?? BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[LegalGaSouthernEagle]

So you always believe what you read from the media?? BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAI hope you didn't spit out any pork rinds with that. I don't believe everything I read, but I also don't believe everything I hear from disgruntled employees, or employees who are coddled by a boss with low expectations. Those are Baldy's sources. He doesn't work for GSU any more than I do. The truth probably lies somewhere in the middle quite frankly.
I'm just going by Sam's very public, very angry, and very defensive stances against going I-A or doing much to push the program forward. If Sam was such a slave to Grube's supposedly anti-athletic agenda, then there would've been no reason for him to have continued that stance after Grube was gone.
The other thing is this, when has anybody known Sam Baker to fall on his sword to save anybody else's butt. His excuses for his screw ups like the APR, big-gate, etc. always fall on his subbordinates. Sam is all about C.Y.A. He covers his rear.That is undeniable.

The suggestion that for Sam's entire tenure, he was just holding Grube's water and taking all that heat so that Grube wouldn't have to, defies anything resembling reality. There's not a person on this thread that doesn't know that Sam is all about Sam. He'll publicly throw anybody under the bus to save his own butt.
Does anybody here really think that Sam Baker was taking the heat for Grube that whole time, and that Sam secretly was being held back from pushing the program forward?!?! We're not talking about the same person if that's what you believe.
And why hasn't Sam said one word about these new projects or championed anything lately in the wake of Grube's retirement? Keel clearly loves athletcs, so why hasn't Sam been beating the drum like a madman, since he has been supposedly held back from doing so all these years?
People, you don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows. Use your heads.

[eaglewraith]

People, you don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.

No but a Kestrel 4500NV with ballistic corrections does a really good job of it. Does the thinking for me.

[seantaylor]

Believe me, Joe. In no way did he defer to Sam Baker to run the show and in no way did Baker dictate the direction of GSU athletics. Grube micromanaged virtually every aspect of the university, athletics definitely included. Let me clarify, Grube was indifferent to our success, but he was in the kitchen and had his finger in there stirring the pot.

I'm with you, Sam's time has long come and gone, but it wouldn't have mattered who the athletic director was when Grube was the President. The vision and direction of the athletic department went through the President's office, not the AD's. I believe it's the same way now, but we finally have a President who understands the value a successful athletic department.


Didn't Grube champion the first Campaign for national distinction? Just curious as to why that holds no weight. Look, I'm loving what I hear out of Keel so far, but one thing still stands out. Sammy is still around. How he survived the "no bid" thing, and now the APR for the 6th straight year is absolutely beyond me.

Shoot me straight, Chet. Will this project be scaled back like the last and be useless in 5 years?

[eaglewraith]

Didn't Grube champion the first Campaign for national distinction? Just curious as to why that holds no weight. Look, I'm loving what I hear out of Keel so far, but one thing still stands out. Sammy is still around. How he survived the "no bid" thing, and now the APR for the 6th straight year is absolutely beyond me.

Shoot me straight, Chet. Will this project be scaled back like the last and be useless in 5 years?

Grube in no way devoted the amount of money in that campaign to athletics like this one will. I'm hearing huge numbers which will be more money directed toward facilities improvements than has been sent to the Athletic Dept ever before possibly. What I've seen of the new facility will in no way make it useless in 5 years. No way something like this would have happened with Grube here, even if we had someone like Scott Farmer as AD. How much money went toward athletics from the Grube CND? Grube cared about academics. He made great leaps and bounds for the university in that area and he's to be thanked for those accomplishments. This is the same man who said he "didn't do sports interviews" though, but as soon as something happened in the athletics area that he didn't like he jumped in front of the camera and threw a ***** fit. Grube called the shots, Sam didn't help so he is to blame as well, but he's not the only one at fault. Grube shares just as much fault.

I agree that Sam needs to go. If he had stepped up to the plate and just flat out accepted blame for Bidgate then I would have at least had a shred of respect for him but he's definitely toast now. However, if Keel can do what he wants to get done and still have Sam there then what does it matter? The objectives of the president of the university will still get accomplished and that's the important part. The AD at this point could be nothing more than a marionette and Keel is pulling the strings.

[LegalGaSouthernEagle]

I agree that Sam needs to go. If he had stepped up to the plate and just flat out accepted blame for Bidgate then I would have at least had a shred of respect for him but he's definitely toast now. However, if Keel can do what he wants to get done and still have Sam there then what does it matter? The objectives of the president of the university will still get accomplished and that's the important part. The AD at this point could be nothing more than a marionette and Keel is pulling the strings.this is some of the lamest rationalization for protecting Sam Baker that I've ever heard. What is your loyalty to the man, wraith? Why is it so hard for you just to say, "I'd like them to fire Sam Baker"? Seriously.

[eaglewraith]

this is some of the lamest rationalization for protecting Sam Baker that I've ever heard. What is your loyalty to the man, wraith? Why is it so hard for you just to say, "I'd like them to fire Sam Baker"? Seriously.

Jesus did you even read the first sentence?

[citdog]

this is some of the lamest rationalization for protecting Sam Baker that I've ever heard. What is your loyalty to the man, wraith? Why is it so hard for you just to say, "I'd like them to fire Sam Baker"? Seriously.


http://www.gameinformer.com/cfs-filesystemfile.ashx/__key/CommunityServer-Discussions-Components-Files/31/3010.Facepalm.jpg

[LegalGaSouthernEagle]

Jesus did you even read the first sentence?Sure did, then I read the next 3 as well. Your stance is that Sam needs to go, but it's ok if he doesn't go because Keel is in charge now.
Do you actually believe that the A.D. who has been in office of 15 years will have no influence at all on any of these decisions, or managing the day to day aspect of any new projects?
You're stance is like a person who has a cancerous tumor who says, "well as long as I can still hear, see, and function, I think I'll leave the tumor in my body." Meanwhile, the thing grows and grows to the point where you eventually lose those functions.
Sam baker is a cancer to this program, and he needs to be cut out immediately before his influence spreads.

[eaglewraith]

Sure did, then I read the next 3 as well. Your stance is that Sam needs to go, but it's ok if he doesn't go because Keel is in charge now.
Do you actually believe that the A.D. who has been in office of 15 years will have no influence at all on any of these decisions, or managing the day to day aspect of any new projects?
You're stance is like a person who has a cancerous tumor who says, "well as long as I can still hear, see, and function, I think I'll leave the tumor in my body." Meanwhile, the thing grows and grows to the point where you eventually lose those functions.
Sam baker is a cancer to this program, and he needs to be cut out immediately before his influence spreads.

Well what a coincidence because I'm a cancer survivor and know more about the process than you. There are other methods to fix things than surgically removing the tumor. So once again you are unwilling to accept that things can be done differently than what you think. Why is it so hard for you to accept that things are changing for the better?

[Purple Pride]

How about some good news.

http://www.ucasports.com/news/2011/5/25/FB_0525113032.aspx

"UCA football is being honored for highest multi-year APR (Academic Progress Rate) average in the Southland Conference for the reporting period ending in 2009-10. The football program had a 942 average over that four-year window."

"UCA football also turned in a score of 960 for the 2009-2010 school year, the highest among Arkansas Division I schools."

[LegalGaSouthernEagle]

Well what a coincidence because I'm a cancer survivor and know more about the process than you. There are other methods to fix things than surgically removing the tumor. So once again you are unwilling to accept that things can be done differently than what you think. Why is it so hard for you to accept that things are changing for the better?Because I've seen this crap for 15 years. Things will not change for the better, and we will never reach our full potential as long as we have Sam Baker in charge of athletics. He is INCOMPETENT. Its not even arguable anymore. He has a very long track record that says so.
Why is it so hard for you to say that Sam needs to go, and go now? Your loyalty to a single man, over the entire university's best interests, is just sad.
Can we agree that cancer is bad!? Jesus! Can we agree that a human body is better off without a tumor than with one!? Then we should be able to agree that GSU would be better off without sam Baker.
Good god, you are such a Sammy Baker lap dog.

[CopperCat]

No.. Just a question as you stated that football went south. I was just asking if you thought that the players should be there for an education first and foremost and to play a game second or if winning was all that mattered.


I wish the UofM had a better graduation rate, I really do. If it meant the team had to suffer, than so be it. Straight up HONEST.

I honestly think Hauck is part of the reason for that. Winning was everything, and now that UM has had a down year with him gone, I think there are people who are realizing that things aren't so peachy. Given that Plfu is from the Hauck regime, I'm not so sure that the emphasis has changed. Hopefully somebody sees the problem at UM and fixes it soon.

[GoAgs72]

UC Davis had the highest APR in the Great West and would have had the highest APR in our new conference, the Big Sky.
http://www.ucdavisaggies.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/052511aac.html

[citdog]

UC Davis had the highest APR in the Great West and would have had the highest APR in our new conference, the Big Sky.
http://www.ucdavisaggies.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/052511aac.html


give me your lunch money


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[The Eagle's Cliff]

give me your lunch money

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