LFN: Ivy League Postseason Ban: Not what the Founders Wanted?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2011/05/ivy-football-postseason-ban-not-what.html


When it comes to Ivy League double standards, you can't do much better than comparing football and lacrosse.

In football, there is a ban on playing postseason football in the FCS playoffs. Aside from language in the original Ivy Agreement intimating a ban on postseason play, "interference with final exams" is one of many popular rationales for maintaining the ban that has been repeated over the years.

Such restrictions might be fine - if they were applied consistently to all Ivy League sports. But they're not. And all you need to do is look at the sport of Lacrosse to see why the Ivy League holds true to ideology... unless it benefits the bottom line.

The Ivy League's ban on the NCAA postseason is not only hypocritical, it's contrary to the original agreement they composed in 1945. Read the blog posting for the full story.

[superman7515]

Interesting read as always.

[Wildcat80]

LFN is right on as always. Football appears to be the whipping boy of academia. Lacrosse must be okay since the Indians invented the sport!? It will take 5 out of 8 schools to push this. Penn should definitely want playoffs---where they might actually get to beat nova! Harvard has enough talent to win playoffs---but it would then interfere with all that post-Yale game tradition. Yale--probably not until they beat Harvard again. Brown might. Cornell should. Dartmouth-might. Princeton should too. It would be good for Eastern FCS football---which is why it won't get done.

[LBPop]

I have posted on this board before what my thoughts are on this issue. Having gone through the Ivy League recruiting routine in early 2003, I was left with a few lasting impressions. One of them was a near arrogant attitude that winning the Ivy League championship was the ultimate achievement in I-AA football (that's what it was called in 2003). They openly looked down on the actual championship. Now there were a few coaches who when faced with someone being recruited outside of the Ivys (the Patriot League, for example) they would mention that they thought the Ivys would join the playoffs in a couple of years. But mostly they touted winning the Ivy League Championship as entering the "promised land". The Penn coaches could not stop flashing their rings for the entire weekend.

Of course, this could all be motivated by the fact that they fear getting their butts kicked in the playoffs. But I think the glory of the occasional upsets would more than over-shadow the expected defeats at the hands of scholarship, playoff caliber teams. I can just imagine the noise at Penn if they drew Villanova in the playoffs and happened to win. xtwocentsx

[Wildcat80]

IMO the years that the Ivy champ is a very good team they would advance in the FCS playoffs. The undefeated Harvard team that had Buffalo's QB Fitzpatrick on it could have made the title game. All Ivy's typically beat the Patriots head-to-head. I hope Dartmouth recovers to give us the type of in-state game that Penn gives nova. Both are great for Eastern football.

[Go...gate]

IMO the years that the Ivy champ is a very good team they would advance in the FCS playoffs. The undefeated Harvard team that had Buffalo's QB Fitzpatrick on it could have made the title game. All Ivy's typically beat the Patriots head-to-head. I hope Dartmouth recovers to give us the type of in-state game that Penn gives nova. Both are great for Eastern football.

Check your history.....

[Mr. C]

In my informal polls, the results over the years have been pretty much 6-2 among coaches in favor of going to the playoffs and players I've talked to are almost universally in favor of postseason play. The only teams staunchly opposing the playoffs are Harvard and Yale, who think it would take away the luster of the Harvard-Yale rivalry. Among presidents, H-Y-P (Harvard, Yale and Princeton) pretty much are the tail that wags the dog and because they don't want playoffs, the idea is never is voted upon.

[LUHawker]

In my informal polls, the results over the years have been pretty much 6-2 among coaches in favor of going to the playoffs and players I've talked to are almost universally in favor of postseason play. The only teams staunchly opposing the playoffs are Harvard and Yale, who think it would take away the luster of the Harvard-Yale rivalry. Among presidents, H-Y-P (Harvard, Yale and Princeton) pretty much are the tail that wags the dog and because they don't want playoffs, the idea is never is voted upon.

I would point to the Lehigh-Lafayette rivalry as evidence that the playoffs can enhance the rivalry because it takes the rivalry to another level when there are playoff-implications that result from the game. Two years ago, Lehigh's upset of the Pards dropped them to 8-3 and kept them out of the playoffs, while Jonathan Hurt's "Catch" in 2004 knocked Lehigh from the field. There have been many other games which have been more intense as a result of the playoffs so I think it would be easy to imagine how a Harvard-Yale game could be "amped up" more with playoff possibilities on the line.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I would point to the Lehigh-Lafayette rivalry as evidence that the playoffs can enhance the rivalry because it takes the rivalry to another level when there are playoff-implications that result from the game. Two years ago, Lehigh's upset of the Pards dropped them to 8-3 and kept them out of the playoffs, while Jonathan Hurt's "Catch" in 2004 knocked Lehigh from the field. There have been many other games which have been more intense as a result of the playoffs so I think it would be easy to imagine how a Harvard-Yale game could be "amped up" more with playoff possibilities on the line.

I wholeheartedly agree. It is my position that the playoffs saved the rivalry rather than cheapened it.

[Wildcat80]

I would point to the Lehigh-Lafayette rivalry as evidence that the playoffs can enhance the rivalry because it takes the rivalry to another level when there are playoff-implications that result from the game. Two years ago, Lehigh's upset of the Pards dropped them to 8-3 and kept them out of the playoffs, while Jonathan Hurt's "Catch" in 2004 knocked Lehigh from the field. There have been many other games which have been more intense as a result of the playoffs so I think it would be easy to imagine how a Harvard-Yale game could be "amped up" more with playoff possibilities on the line.


Do you think those old-timers at Y&H can understand that concept?

[DFW HOYA]

Do you think those old-timers at Y&H can understand that concept?

Absolutely, and they will do whatever it takes to preserve their rivalry as they see fit. And Lehigh and Lafayette would do the same if changes sought by other members of the PL would impact their game. Imagine the outrage if the PL decided to move their game to week 6.

[Pard4Life]

As Mr. 13 rightly pointed out many years ago, the Ivy will never acquiesce to a playoff berth because it is not the highest championship level of the sport. For example, you will have Harvard compete against "low-lifes" Bemidiji St. and Quinnipiac in the hockey playoffs because it leads to the ultimate title and they are the highest level of competition. Having football host a playoff game against Costal Carolina does not advance that goal and so the Ivy remains insular.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

As Mr. 13 rightly pointed out many years ago, the Ivy will never acquiesce to a playoff berth because it is not the highest championship level of the sport. For example, you will have Harvard compete against "low-lifes" Bemidiji St. and Quinnipiac in the hockey playoffs because it leads to the ultimate title and they are the highest level of competition. Having football host a playoff game against Costal Carolina does not advance that goal and so the Ivy remains insular.

That is actually not true. The FCS National Championship is the highest level of NCAA-sanctioned football championship there is. The BCS Crystal Ball game is perceived and marketed as a national championship game, but it is not sanctioned by the NCAA and has nothing to do with NCAA championships.

The entire idea that they don't compete in the "highest level" assumes that 1) FBS has an NCAA-sanctioned championship and 2) FCS is some other division that isn't Division I. It is Division I, and FBS has no NCAA-sanctioned championship. It's been a fiction that's been easy to perpetuate since FBS brands their Crystal Ball game as a "national championship" and the former labels of I-A and I-AA implied different "levels", but it's really fiction. More importantly, though, it's fiction that the Ivy League presidents have perpetuated in order to keep their ban on postseason football.

[carney2]

All Ivy's typically beat the Patriots head-to-head.

Rephrase that "All Ivy's typically beat Lafayette head-to-head" and you'd be closer to correct.

[Franks Tanks]

Rephrase that "All Ivy's typically beat Lafayette head-to-head" and you'd be closer to correct.

With the notable exception of Columbia. Overall the Ivy/Patriot yearly series has been pretty close, but the Ivy's have been able to attract more high end talent IMO.

[DFW HOYA]

With the notable exception of Columbia. Overall the Ivy/Patriot yearly series has been pretty close, but the Ivy's have been able to attract more high end talent IMO.

Or this question: was PL talent better in 2001, or 2011?

[Franks Tanks]

Or this question: was PL talent better in 2001, or 2011?

Very good question. The Patriot League did have its highest ever draft pick in 2 consecutive years with Skelton and Rackley. However I think most of us would agree that the PL was more competitive on a national FCS stage 10 years ago. I guess one would have to say the talent was better 10 years ago relative to national competition.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Or this question: was PL talent better in 2001, or 2011?


Very good question. The Patriot League did have its highest ever draft pick in 2 consecutive years with Skelton and Rackley. However I think most of us would agree that the PL was more competitive on a national FCS stage 10 years ago. I guess one would have to say the talent was better 10 years ago relative to national competition.

You can't have this conversation without the following follow-on-questions.

1) Has the Ivy League's aid policies resulted in better, worse, or largely the same types of teams?
2) Has the effect of the A-10 becoming the CAA had an effect?

Question 1) might be open to debate, but 2) absolutely has had an effect on a national scale. The difference between the Richmond/Villanova/Delaware teams at the end of the decade and even the 2003 NC team of Delaware are extremely large, in my opinion.

I mention this because it might not be a function of the PL talent being better: it might be a case of other championship schools getting better and better, with the PL remaining (at best) in place.

[Pard4Life]

Perception is reality, LFN. The FBS is the highest level of competition and the ultimate champion, even though they have no true method.

[Pard4Life]

Believe it or not, the Ivy has stayed the same, likely because their pool of athletes has remained the same due to the admissions "bands". Harvard has certainly gotten better though, and Penn has been the same. The others are so-so. Yale is trying, as is Princeton now. You also have to ask yourself if the PL will improve considerably because we will still have the same admissions bands in place. We will not be able to go out and get anybody like Delaware or Richmond, so our ceiling is limited.

[UNH Fanboi]

You can't have this conversation without the following follow-on-questions.

1) Has the Ivy League's aid policies resulted in better, worse, or largely the same types of teams?
2) Has the effect of the A-10 becoming the CAA had an effect?

Question 1) might be open to debate, but 2) absolutely has had an effect on a national scale. The difference between the Richmond/Villanova/Delaware teams at the end of the decade and even the 2003 NC team of Delaware are extremely large, in my opinion.

I mention this because it might not be a function of the PL talent being better: it might be a case of other championship schools getting better and better, with the PL remaining (at best) in place.

As long as the PL does not offer scholarships, I think their teams will continue to decline relative to full-scholarship FCS. I think the skyrocketing cost of tuition will continue to reduce the value proposition of attending a PL school instead of accepting a full scholarship from a state school. There are even some CAA programs such as W&M and Richmond that are on par with or even ahead of some of the PL schools academically.

How much aid do PL league school offer middle to upper middle class players? For example, lets say you're have a kid from suburban NJ (or another high COL area) whose parents make 120K a year. How much would they have to pay to attend a PL school? Unless the PL schools offering to cover a substantial percentage of tuition, I would guess that they're having trouble competing with full scholarship offers from schools like Delaware. Even if they are able to get away with offering close to a full scholarships to many players by gaming the financial aid process, I bet a lot of parents are turned off by the uncertainty or opacity of the process and just don't bother looking at PL schools.

Just some thoughts. I don't know too much about the aid process at PL schools, so someone please fill me in.

[henfan]

The BCS Crystal Ball game is perceived and marketed as a national championship game, but it is not sanctioned by the NCAA and has nothing to do with NCAA championships.

Oddly, I'd bet that most sports fans don't realize that the college semi-pro NC game isn't an NCAA event.

[Franks Tanks]

As long as the PL does not offer scholarships, I think their teams will continue to decline relative to full-scholarship FCS. I think the skyrocketing cost of tuition will continue to reduce the value proposition of attending a PL school instead of accepting a full scholarship from a state school. There are even some CAA programs such as W&M and Richmond that are on par with or even ahead of some of the PL schools academically.

How much aid do PL league school offer middle to upper middle class players? For example, lets say you're have a kid from suburban NJ (or another high COL area) whose parents make 120K a year. How much would they have to pay to attend a PL school? Unless the PL schools offering to cover a substantial percentage of tuition, I would guess that they're having trouble competing with full scholarship offers from schools like Delaware. Even if they are able to get away with offering close to a full scholarships to many players by gaming the financial aid process, I bet a lot of parents are turned off by the uncertainty or opacity of the process and just don't bother looking at PL schools.

Just some thoughts. I don't know too much about the aid process at PL schools, so someone please fill me in.

In your example the kid who's parents make 120k and live in NJ won't get a whole lot. Maybe 1/3 to 1/2 aid but I am guessing. I believe assets like home equity is also used in the financial aid equation and that kills kids from NJ, NY, and SE PA as their parents may have several hundred grand in home equity.

[bkrownd]

Perception is reality, LFN. The FBS is the highest level of competition and the ultimate champion, even though they have no true method.

The only true method is round-robin. All else is a kludge.

[DFW HOYA]

As long as the PL does not offer scholarships, I think their teams will continue to decline relative to full-scholarship FCS. I think the skyrocketing cost of tuition will continue to reduce the value proposition of attending a PL school instead of accepting a full scholarship from a state school. There are even some CAA programs such as W&M and Richmond that are on par with or even ahead of some of the PL schools academically.

W&M and Richmond are good schools irrespective of scholarships. Conversely, whether or not Georgetown offers 15 football scholarships a year means almost nothing to its academic profile.

A bigger problem for the PL is one of perception--like its basketball brethren, it is increasingly being seen as a non-competitive choice for serious talent. Ten years ago Lehigh was a legitimate top 5 team in the I-AA polls, two years later, Colgate made it to the playoff finals. Hardly anyone would expect a repeat of either in 2011. Recruits see the little things--the coaching moves, the softer schedules, the programs that can't seem to keep local talent, and see better options elsewhere. They also see a run of single bid, early exits in the playoffs and that reflects on all seven schools. Some even look at the lack of any leadership (pro or con) exhibited by the conference in the scholarship issue, the lack of a coordinated media strategy, and a firewall that keeps out 80% of I-AA recruits from even applying, and conclude there must be better opportunities elsewhere. Years ago, maybe not so much. Today, there are.

So if we're sitting here in two years still wondering what the league will ever do on scholarships, still asking about Bucknell drawing 1,500 for a game with Colgate, or asking if that pile of gravel at Georgetown is finally to build the MSF, or merely to cover over the weeds that have grown up around it, know well that a half-generation of recruits have gone elsewhere. But that's OK in the PL world, because status quo is preferable to change.

[ngineer]

IMO the years that the Ivy champ is a very good team they would advance in the FCS playoffs. The undefeated Harvard team that had Buffalo's QB Fitzpatrick on it could have made the title game. All Ivy's typically beat the Patriots head-to-head. I hope Dartmouth recovers to give us the type of in-state game that Penn gives nova. Both are great for Eastern football.

Not really. Check the stats over the past 10 years. Without even looking, I bet the total W-L's are pretty close.

[DFW HOYA]

Not really. Check the stats over the past 10 years. Without even looking, I bet the total W-L's are pretty close.

Since 2001, Ivy holds an 90-84 advantage, but if you put Colgate aside, Ivy owns a 83-60 advantage.

Some items from the crosstab:

1. Neither Harvard nor Princeton has played Bucknell, Georgetown, or Fordham in the 2000s.
2. Four schools (Brown, Dartmouth, Harvard, Princeton) have played only three PL schools each over the decade.
3. Lafayette has played the most Ivy games (34), Georgetown the fewest (12).
4. Three Ivy schools (Columbia, Cornell, Harvard) have played 25 PL games, fewest is Brown (12).
5. Colgate has the most wins against Ivy teams (24), Georgetown the fewest (1).
6. Harvard has the most wins against PL teams (18), Dartmouth the fewest (5).

[bonarae]

Good post. We should all xprayx that they will turn to the reality that playoffs doesn't really pose problems to academics...

[Wildcat80]

Since 2001, Ivy holds an 90-84 advantage, but if you put Colgate aside, Ivy owns a 83-60 advantage.

Some items from the crosstab:

1. Neither Harvard nor Princeton has played Bucknell, Georgetown, or Fordham in the 2000s.
2. Four schools (Brown, Dartmouth, Harvard, Princeton) have played only three PL schools each over the decade.
3. Lafayette has played the most Ivy games (34), Georgetown the fewest (12).
4. Three Ivy schools (Columbia, Cornell, Harvard) have played 25 PL games, fewest is Brown (12).
5. Colgate has the most wins against Ivy teams (24), Georgetown the fewest (1).
6. Harvard has the most wins against PL teams (18), Dartmouth the fewest (5).

Thanks Hoya! I knew one of you PL posters would research this to defend the PL. I stand corrected......guess I remember the Harvard wins the most. Lehigh & Holy Cross will be good games for UNH this year. Hope we do not look past them.

[RichH2]

Good analysis as always LFN. IMHO Ivies will add a game to their schedule long before permitting post season play. Whether thinking is elitist, irrational or perhaps both matters little to the IL powers , ie Harvard and Yale. They do not want to cheapen the GAME by consorting thereafter with the likes of us.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Good analysis as always LFN. IMHO Ivies will add a game to their schedule long before permitting post season play. Whether thinking is elitist, irrational or perhaps both matters little to the IL powers , ie Harvard and Yale. They do not want to cheapen the GAME by consorting thereafter with the likes of us.

That may be true, but the IL presidents need to be held to account for wrapping their opposition to the FCS playoffs in the Ivy Agreement and academic purity. Have the conversation on "cheapening "The Game"" - for that's what it really is, not the words on a 1945 document or a concept of academic purity that is often conveniently overlooked.

[RichH2]

Agree . IL only prevents post season in one sport and has permitted NCAA play everywhere else for years. Whatever the real basis for the ban, I would not expect H or Y to fess up and admit that they do not want it. They should face the issue directly but when have we ever seen such people ever do so. God , I do so hope that the PL will decide to become less reliant on IL and move forward with our own identity.

[Go...gate]

As long as the PL does not offer scholarships, I think their teams will continue to decline relative to full-scholarship FCS. I think the skyrocketing cost of tuition will continue to reduce the value proposition of attending a PL school instead of accepting a full scholarship from a state school. There are even some CAA programs such as W&M and Richmond that are on par with or even ahead of some of the PL schools academically.

How much aid do PL league school offer middle to upper middle class players? For example, lets say you're have a kid from suburban NJ (or another high COL area) whose parents make 120K a year. How much would they have to pay to attend a PL school? Unless the PL schools offering to cover a substantial percentage of tuition, I would guess that they're having trouble competing with full scholarship offers from schools like Delaware. Even if they are able to get away with offering close to a full scholarships to many players by gaming the financial aid process, I bet a lot of parents are turned off by the uncertainty or opacity of the process and just don't bother looking at PL schools.

Just some thoughts. I don't know too much about the aid process at PL schools, so someone please fill me in.

This is why the scholarship issue has become so hotly contested. If the PL elects to stay with their present financial aid arrangements for "football only", we will surely remain a lower level FCS conference.

[DFW HOYA]

This is why the scholarship issue has become so hotly contested. If the PL elects to stay with their present financial aid arrangements for "football only", we will surely remain a lower level FCS conference.

If the PL elects to stay with their present financial aid and admissions arrangements, it will surely remain a lower level FCS conference. As long as Villanova, Richmond, W&M etc. can recruit kids that PL schools are ostensibly forbidden to do, lots of good and capable talent will look elsewhere. A financial aid-only change simply shifts the pool of recruits between the Ivy and the Patriot schools and those schools that cannot provide the funds to offer enough of these grants (read=Georgetown, Bucknell) fall ever further behind, further diminishing the PL's reputation as a conference.

[Go...gate]

If the PL elects to stay with their present financial aid and admissions arrangements, it will surely remain a lower level FCS conference. As long as Villanova, Richmond, W&M etc. can recruit kids that PL schools are ostensibly forbidden to do, lots of good and capable talent will look elsewhere. A financial aid-only change simply shifts the pool of recruits between the Ivy and the Patriot schools and those schools that cannot provide the funds to offer enough of these grants (read=Georgetown, Bucknell) fall ever further behind, further diminishing the PL's reputation as a conference.

A very valid point. There are also some who believe that the PL's decline as a conference is a desirable thing in terms of so-called "academic branding".

[RichH2]

I have no doubt that the PL AI floor has caused some loss in recruits since it started. I cannot speak to others but at LU it was a moot point as standards have raised so much over the last 10 yrs that few ,if any, of our recrits are that close to the floor. That rising tide , more than the AI, has narrowed our pool of kids.

[Go...gate]

I have no doubt that the PL AI floor has caused some loss in recruits since it started. I cannot speak to others but at LU it was a moot point as standards have raised so much over the last 10 yrs that few ,if any, of our recrits are that close to the floor. That rising tide , more than the AI, has narrowed our pool of kids.

Colgate has the same problem.

[RichH2]

Knowing why your pool is narrower is OK. The real issue is how to deal with the consequences.
PL competes primarily with CAA and IL for recruits. We lose more than we win to each every year. CAA offers schollies and except for a very few we cannot offer anywere near the same $$$ for a middle class family. IL offers prestige certainly and for many need aid that rivals if not exceeds full schollies out in the real world.
Entrance requirements at PL schools are very close to that of IL. We do not match their prestige and cannot match most of their aid.

Given that box where do we go? Pioneer, Div III? or do we stay and compete for the best. I would hope PL decides to compete and not just as an adjunct to the Ivies. We will not lower academic standards, the only option is merit aid ala W&M , Richmond ,Nova et al. I find that my empathy for schools with problems with going this route has waned as this soap opera drags on. I feel some level of merit aid is an absolute necessity for PL schools. Those that wont or cant should not be permitted to continue stalling this evolution .When the old MAC broe up schools went in different directions Gettysburg down Delaware to scholarship. The choice to follow Gburg 's path is not one I want forced on my school or conference.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Given that box where do we go? Pioneer, Div III? or do we stay and compete for the best. I would hope PL decides to compete and not just as an adjunct to the Ivies. We will not lower academic standards, the only option is merit aid ala W&M , Richmond ,Nova et al. I find that my empathy for schools with problems with going this route has waned as this soap opera drags on. I feel some level of merit aid is an absolute necessity for PL schools. Those that wont or cant should not be permitted to continue stalling this evolution .When the old MAC broe up schools went in different directions Gettysburg down Delaware to scholarship. The choice to follow Gburg 's path is not one I want forced on my school or conference.

I find myself on the "some merit aid" side of the argument because I see the way the IL works now as fundamentally unfair. There are three schools in H-Y-P that can easily outspend the other five because they have resources that the other schools cannot touch.

At one time, the Ivy League used to standardize their aid packages - whether you got accepted to Harvard or Brown, you got the same aid package. When that was the policy, the PL could compete with the IL better since aid was all more or less equal across both leagues.

But now, that is no longer the case. By scrapping the "one Ivy" policy, H-Y-P can now offer players packages that the PL and most of the IL cannot touch by scholarshipping the entire student body.

Eventually, I think that cannot possibly hold within the league - for football, or any sport. The IL will have to allow Penn, Columbia, Dartmouth, Cornell and Brown to have some form of merit aid, tied to an academic index, because the alternative, frankly, will be the dissolution of the athletic league. Whether that takes one year, five years, or fifty I can't say, but I am convinced it will happen.

My position is that the PL cannot wait for the IL to get its house in order - it might take another fifty years. The sooner the PL succumbs to the reality that some form of AI-tied merit aid is necessary, the better, and it ought to happen before the IL realizes it. And as crazy as it might sound, a PL with merit aid might actually be a very, very attractive destination to some of those Ivies struggling with competition with H-Y-P. For example, if you're Brown, faced with cutting athletics programs to keep up with H-Y-P, why not look at a merit-based PL? After all, the PL schools look a lot more like Brown than H-Y-P do.

[RichH2]

Interesting concept, Brown to the PL. I like it even if just for fun.Why not Columbia and Dartmouth also. Others, well Penn will spend to be good and Cornell has SUNY Ithaca. Let the rumors begin anew.

[Franks Tanks]

Interesting concept, Brown to the PL. I like it even if just for fun.Why not Columbia and Dartmouth also. Others, well Penn will spend to be good and Cornell has SUNY Ithaca. Let the rumors begin anew.

Brown's per student undergrad endowment is pretty much right in line with Colgate, Lafayette, Lehigh and well the whole league. However I think it will be another 50 years before a school leaves or joins the Ivy league.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Brown's per student undergrad endowment is pretty much right in line with Colgate, Lafayette, Lehigh and well the whole league. However I think it will be another 50 years before a school leaves or joins the Ivy league.

I don't think it will take 50 years, but it will happen sometime before then. I don't know when, though! xlolx

[RichH2]

Will Brown give up Ivy cachet even if they can no longer afford to compete with H-Y-P? Fun to play with idea but I dont think it will happen. Like people who live in house and neighborhoods that they cant afford, Brown will hold on. At least until they go into foreclosure.

[Sader87]

Endowment/Student -- College -- Endowment (thous.)
$1,895,607 -- Princeton -- $14,391,450
$1,436,384 -- Yale -- $16,652,000
$1,419,680 -- Harvard -- $27,557,404
$500,802 ---- Dartmouth -- $2,998,302
$293,560 ---- U of Penn -- $5,668,937
$268,944 ---- Columbia -- $6,516,512
$251,380 ---- Brown -- $2,155,330
$241,372 ---- Lafayette -- $580,740
$216,554 ---- Colgate -- $614,363
$212,213 ---- Cornell -- $4,378,587
$178,204 ---- Holy Cross -- $522,494
$134,424 ---- Lehigh -- $940,430
$133,813 ---- Bucknell -- $491,495
$61,431 ----- Georgetown -- $1,009,736

But no money for football scholarships......it is to laugh (or cry).