App State delays FBS decision

[Cocky]

http://www2.journalnow.com/sports/2011/may/05/asu-puts-football-decision-hold-ar-1006035/

[49RFootballNow]

ECHO...................echo......................e cho.......................

[WMTribe90]

“The climate right now is so up in the air that we’ve got to be very careful about introducing this. We need to take that into consideration before we determine our next step. We are still to determine if it’s wise to make a recommendation or hold off for a period of time. We’re not up against any time barrier. We’ve got the time to do this properly.”

This sums it up. No need to make a decision in the near future because ASU has no standing offer to join an FBS conference and can't move up unilaterally.

[49RFootballNow]

I'd be surprised if the Sun Belt didn't have a spot for them if they wanted it. It's understandable that App wouldn't leap at that chance though.

[smallcollegefbfan]

“The climate right now is so up in the air that we’ve got to be very careful about introducing this. We need to take that into consideration before we determine our next step. We are still to determine if it’s wise to make a recommendation or hold off for a period of time. We’re not up against any time barrier. We’ve got the time to do this properly.”

This sums it up. No need to make a decision in the near future because ASU has no standing offer to join an FBS conference and can't move up unilaterally.


I'm with you. The only reason this decision has been delayed is because C-USA has delayed inviting them for some reason. ASU is gone just like everyone is saying. It's just a matter of time, unless C-USA decides against bringing them in like everyone has heard and ASU refuses to join the Sun Belt.

[Mountaineer]

ASU is gone just like everyone is saying.

I don't get that feeling at all, unfortunately. I think App is going to be calling I-AA home for the foreseeable future.

What this appears to me is a case of App being all dressed up with no place to go. The bags are packed, the suit is on..the taxi's late.. xlolx

[superman7515]

There's always that crosstown Colonial bar to get some cheap drinks before you go out to the big party.

[Mr. C]

I'd be surprised if the Sun Belt didn't have a spot for them if they wanted it. It's understandable that App wouldn't leap at that chance though.

Appalachian State has NO interest in the Sun Belt. There are not the revenue streams in the Sun Belt to make a move worthwhile. There also are no rivalries in that conference for ASU to be drawn to. One of the main reasons for an interest in Conference USA is that it would rekindle rivalries with Marshall and East Carolina.

I felt the same way as others as soon as I started reading the article. ASU obviously doesn't have an invite to Conference USA, so it came up with a reason for "delaying" the decision. I've always felt that ASU was better off staying in FCS and the Southern Conference, when you look at the overall program.

[Mountaineer]

There's always that crosstown Colonial bar to get some cheap drinks before you go out to the big party.

Yeah, but I can save even more money and get drunk faster at home sampling from this old skunky SoCon sixpack. :p

[Mr. C]

I'm with you. The only reason this decision has been delayed is because C-USA has delayed inviting them for some reason. ASU is gone just like everyone is saying. It's just a matter of time, unless C-USA decides against bringing them in like everyone has heard and ASU refuses to join the Sun Belt.

Obviously, there isn't an invite. I told you all along, that a move to Conference USA wasn't a done deal.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Obviously, there isn't an invite. I told you all along, that a move to Conference USA wasn't a done deal.

Looking at it fromt he outside that's what I've always thought as well. CUSA makes sense, Sun Belt doesn't and until CUSA says let's do this you'd be pissin' in the wind if you are ASU.

[StorminASU]

I feel like our current admin. must know something could possibly happen down the road because otherwise lets just call the study done and say we're staying. It seems like Charlie is just delaying to wait for something he feels will be there. I'm looking at this through black & gold, lets get out of the Socon glasses though.

[Apphole]

It's obvious that we're going. We just have to wait for BCS conferences to shake up first. This announcement pretty much explicitly says that we are moving up, but in light of current state budget issues, it would be unwise to announce our intentions now. We will announce a move to C-USA by the end of the summer after the shuffling of the Big East, Big 12 etc. The interesting thing is will C-USA be the same by the time we get there? The admins have made up their mind. Unfortunatly though, we have to wait on others before our destiny falls into place. It's not a "done dea" in the since that we have an invite in hand. It is a "done deal" as far as what the University has decided.

[OL FU]

I guess the answer to "why" will never be answeredxrolleyesx:D

[StorminASU]

I think we're moving up too and it is a "done deal," I'm not quite as sure it'll end up being CUSA though (please be CUSA, please be CUSA!!!). I would def. have to back the announcement up too. End of summer is still pretty close, but hopefully I'm wrong and we'll be on our way to giving ECU all they can handle + the 6 we were missing that September day!

[ASUMountaineer]

Appalachian State has NO interest in the Sun Belt. There are not the revenue streams in the Sun Belt to make a move worthwhile. There also are no rivalries in that conference for ASU to be drawn to. One of the main reasons for an interest in Conference USA is that it would rekindle rivalries with Marshall and East Carolina.

I felt the same way as others as soon as I started reading the article. ASU obviously doesn't have an invite to Conference USA, so it came up with a reason for "delaying" the decision. I've always felt that ASU was better off staying in FCS and the Southern Conference, when you look at the overall program.

I tend to agree with you that ASU must not have an invite in hand. However, we differ on what's best for ASU. I also tend to agree with another poster in that the admin may believe something is going to be available to ASU sooner rather than later. Otherwise, wouldn't it be better for all parties involved to just say we're staying put?

Do you think a move to the CAA, in the event there is no available FBS destination, is a viable option?

[StorminASU]

I think a move to CAA is entirely possible, I just don't see it as feasible. It seems like a lot of the competition in the CAA is going somewhere else in the not too distant future and hell if we're staying FCS, why not stay in a conference where wins are a little easier/ you know your opponenets and you don't have as much travel?

[Apphole]

I guess the answer to "why" will never be answeredxrolleyesx:D

It was answered many times. You just chose not to listen.

[GlassOnion]

I just hope ECU is still in place after a shuffle.

[citdog]

I just hope ECU is still in place after a shuffle.

We are ALL praying for that bubba!

http://www.ccun.org/images/2008/July/29%20p/Jewish%20obama%2023jul8.jpg


xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx

[blaw0203]

APP State would be more attractive to an FBS Conference like C-USA if they renovate/expand their stadium. The current size is probably a huge deterrent. Athletics and academics cant be it because App State seems better off in those areas than some C-USA programs. Getting rid of the track and doubling the stadium's size to 40k seats would let C-USA know that they are serious!

[Skjellyfetti]

APP State would be more attractive to an FBS Conference like C-USA if they renovate/expand their stadium. The current size is probably a huge deterrent. Athletics and academics cant be it because App State seems better off in those areas than some C-USA programs. Getting rid of the track and doubling the stadium's size to 40k seats would let C-USA know that they are serious!

Our regular season attendance would have put us around 3rd or 4th in Conference USA last year.

We're adding endzone seating for next year... so our record attendance could jump to around 35,000 or so.

[Accelerati Incredibilus]

Mr Cobb is not a very good poker player and gave away what is actually going on in his last comment. The expected movement within the BE has not taken place yet. Once they tell Nova to take a hike and raid CUSA for new members, the door will open. The question isn't if ASU will go, just when.

[blaw0203]

Our regular season attendance would have put us around 3rd or 4th in Conference USA last year.

We're adding endzone seating for next year... so our record attendance could jump to around 35,000 or so.

Your attendance was that high due to the number of home games you play which is really great the the AD is able to pull off, however that would not be possible on the FBS level due to the fact that FBS teams largely would not travel to KB Stadium that much and the game mandates you have to fulfill. 21k seats is too small for C-USA, you all would have the smallest stadium in C-USA; even the sunbelt doesnt have any schools with a stadium that small. The endzone seating addition will help, but again, C-USA is trying to make their conference more attractive. They just inked that 43million dollar tv deal so they just arent gonna let any school move up and get a cut, they want someone who can bring alot to the table. IMO, 35k isnt enough, that would still place you near the bottom of their conference in terms of capacity. Doing a major expansion to 40k - 45k seats lets them know you are serious and financially able to compete with the best of their programs!

[superman7515]

Your attendance was that high due to the number of home games you play which is really great the the AD is able to pull off, however that would not be possible on the FBS level due to the fact that FBS teams largely would not travel to KB Stadium that much and the game mandates you have to fulfill. 21k seats is too small for C-USA, you all would have the smallest stadium in C-USA; even the sunbelt doesnt have any schools with a stadium that small. The endzone seating addition will help, but again, C-USA is trying to make their conference more attractive. They just inked that 43million dollar tv deal so they just arent gonna let any school move up and get a cut, they want someone who can bring alot to the table. IMO, 35k isnt enough, that would still place you near the bottom of their conference in terms of capacity. Doing a major expansion to 40k - 45k seats lets them know you are serious and financially able to compete with the best of their programs!

Average attendance, not just total attendance.

AppState is already spending comparably to several C-USA teams.

[superman7515]

East Carolina = 49,665
Central Florida = 39,614
Houston = 31,728
Southern Mississippi = 29,400
UTEP = 29,350
Marshall = 27,046
Appalachian State = 25,715
Rice = 25,571
Memphis = 23,918
Southern Methodist = 23,515
Tulane = 23,220
Tulsa = 20,379
Alabama-Birmingham = 18,360

[blaw0203]

Average attendance, not just total attendance.

AppState is already spending comparably to several C-USA teams.

Thats even more reason for them to go BIG! Then C-USA will have no excuses!

[Skjellyfetti]

East Carolina = 49,665
Central Florida = 39,614
Houston = 31,728
Southern Mississippi = 29,400
UTEP = 29,350
Marshall = 27,046
Appalachian State = 25,715
Rice = 25,571
Memphis = 23,918
Southern Methodist = 23,515
Tulane = 23,220
Tulsa = 20,379
Alabama-Birmingham = 18,360

That includes playoffs.

Just looking at regular season attendance... we would have been between Houston and Southern Miss.

[citdog]

East Carolina = 49,665
Central Florida = 39,614
Houston = 31,728
Southern Mississippi = 29,400
UTEP = 29,350
Marshall = 27,046
Appalachian State = 25,715
Rice = 25,571
Memphis = 23,918
Southern Methodist = 23,515
Tulane = 23,220
Tulsa = 20,379
Alabama-Birmingham = 18,360

That is one ****TY Conference. on the national level you may as well be FCS as far as the "what other people think" factor which yosefs seem to care so much about is concerned.

[Skjellyfetti]

That is one ****TY Conference. on the national level you may as well be FCS as far as the "what other people think" factor which yosefs seem to care so much about is concerned.

This is a ****tier conference:
Appalachian State 25715
Georgia Southern 17627
Chattanooga 12699
Citadel 11445
Furman 10594
Wofford 9039
Western Carolina 8470
Elon 8176
Samford 7321

UAB... with their pitiful attendance... would LEAD the SoCon after we're gone. xsmhx

Their ****tiest television matchups outdraw the FCS championship game. Their television contract is worth $14 million a year. The SoCon PAYS SportSouth to broadcast 1 SoCon game a week regionally. Their bowl tie ins are around $5.5 million. How much do FCS schools get paid to play in post season games?

[citdog]

This is a ****tier conference:
Appalachian State 25715
Georgia Southern 17627
Chattanooga 12699
Citadel 11445
Furman 10594
Wofford 9039
Western Carolina 8470
Elon 8176
Samford 7321

UAB... with their pitiful attendance... would LEAD the SoCon after we're gone. xsmhx

Their ****tiest television matchups outdraw the FCS championship game. Their television contract is worth $14 million a year. The SoCon PAYS SportSouth to broadcast 1 SoCon game a week regionally. Their bowl tie ins are around $5.5 million. How much do FCS schools get paid to play in post season games?


the only good thing about appy state leaving will be that you will no longer post on boards devoted to a division that you have so much disdain for. good riddance to bad rubbish. not appy but YOU personally *********. you'll find out how much going to a bowl game (if you ever do) ends up COSTING schools. as I said I CAN'T WAIT.

[Tod]

the only good thing about appy state leaving will be that you will no longer post on boards devoted to a division that you have so much disdain for. good riddance to bad rubbish. not appy but YOU personally **********. you'll find out how much going to a bowl game (if you ever do) ends up COSTING schools. as I said I CAN'T WAIT.

This from a guy who wishes to secede from the country? Wow. Not the south, but you, personally, citdog. You'll find out how much it ends up COSTING you. I CAN't WAIT.

[GreatAppSt]

due to the fact that FBS teams largely would not travel to KB Stadium that much and the game mandates you have to fulfill. !

?? Do you think APPs large attendances somehow relies on the FCS teams we currently play bringing throngs through the gates??


21k seats is too small for C-USA, you all would have the smallest stadium in C-USA;!

Your right 21k is to small that's why the addition to 25k and possiblt 27 will be completed before this next season, which renders this 21k thrust pointless and irrellevant.:D next?

[citdog]

This from a guy who wishes to secede from the country? Wow. Not the south, but you, personally, citdog. You'll find out how much it ends up COSTING you. I CAN't WAIT.

don't you have a mine to crawl back into? or some baby daddies to chase down?

[Skjellyfetti]

the only good thing about appy state leaving will be that you will no longer post on boards devoted to a division that you have so much disdain for. good riddance to bad rubbish. not appy but YOU personally ***********. you'll find out how much going to a bowl game (if you ever do) ends up COSTING schools. as I said I CAN'T WAIT.

I don't have disdain for FCS football. Only a fool would choose to stay in the SoCon if presented the opportunity to move to Conference USA, though. There is a chasm between the two conferences in every measurable way.

[citdog]

This from a guy who wishes to secede from the country? Wow. Not the south, but you, personally, citdog. You'll find out how much it ends up COSTING you. I CAN't WAIT.


"why tod does this mean we're not friends anymore? Because you know tod if I thought you weren't my friend I just don't think I could bear it"
http://rexee-11.vo.llnwd.net/d1/video_img/173/52609371/52609371_1908.jpg

[GreatAppSt]

you all would have the smallest stadium in C-USA; even the sunbelt doesnt have any schools with a stadium that small. The endzone seating addition will help, but again, C-USA is trying to make their conference more attractive. , 35k isnt enough, that would still place you near the bottom of their conference in terms of capacity.

Trust me Conferences care way more about butts filled in seats than large capacity empty shells. Kinda the the old length vs GIRTH arguement.

Length no doubt looks good, and with sophmoric zeal is often compared and bragged about.

GIRTH though carries displacement with it. When a stadium is filled to the rim, within a molecule of being stretched to a point of being wholly uncomfortable that's GIRTH baby. The screams are louder, echoing down halls that all nearby even the uninvolved realize whats going on. The screams and pleading last longer many times never lapsing until a crescendo is reached only when it's over and exhaustion sets in. For me the biggest thrill of a GIRTHY stadium is watching the shear shock and on faces of first time GIRTH attendees. They quickly build to a heated exuberance with the fresh experience, then watching them become reciprocal in their new found pleasures too those close to them.xwhistlex

GIRTH makes em walk home funny, worn out, rosy cheeked with smiles on their faces. They won't compare they'll comeback, they won't brag, they'll talk about you and tell their friends.xnodxxrotatehxxhypedx

App is not the only FCS team that has it but ASU is definitley one of them, and that's what Conferances yearn for.xsmiley_wix

[blaw0203]

Trust me Conferences care way more about butts filled in seats than large capacity empty shells. Kinda the old length vs GIRTH arguement.

Length no doubt looks good, and with sophmoric zeal is often compared and bragged about.

GIRTH though carries displacement with it. When a stadium is filled to the rim, within a molecule of being stretched to a point of being wholly uncomfortable that's GIRTH baby. The screams are louder, echoing down halls that all nearby even the uninvolved realize whats going on. The screams and pleading last longer many times never lapsing until a crescendo is reached only when it's over and exhaustion sets in. For me the biggest thrill of a GIRTHY stadium is watching the shear shock and on faces of first time GIRTH attendees. They quickly build to a heated exuberance with the fresh experience, then watching them become reciprocal in their new found pleasures too those close to them.xwhistlex

GIRTH makes em walk home funny, worn out, rosy cheeked with smiles on their faces. They won't compare they'll comeback, they won't brag, they'll talk about you and tell their friends.xnodxxrotatehxxhypedx

App is not the only FCS team that has it but ASU is definitley one of them, and that's what Conferances yearn for.xsmiley_wix

All of that may sound good, but at the end of the day, you have to convince C-USA. App State trying to join C-USA with KB Stadium as-is can be compared to someone driving a brand new honda trying to join one of the most exclusive country clubs in town. The guy might be able to afford a benz, but his image is tainted by his inferior vehicle. C-USA is still trying to build their image, they are not about to let a school join whose stadium is not recognizably an FBS-caliber facility. Dont get me wrong, KB Stadium is nice, much better than many FCS Stadiums, but it is not an FBS caliber facility. Increasing it to 40k+ seats and getting rid of the track will do it. Image is everything!

[Saint3333]

Football or the stadium isn't stopping ASU from joining an FBS conference.

[Blue Eagle]

I have no basis to make this statement except for the experience gained from attending FCS/I-AA football games for more than 25 years at a number of different stadiums. Every time I have attended ASU games the attendance seems to be inflated. I may wrong but that is my perception.

ASU has a great stadium, great fans and a great football program, but it bothers me that the school would do this to make the attendance look better than it is.

JUST AN OPINION

[Apphole]

I have no basis to make this statement except for the experience gained from attending FCS/I-AA football games for more than 25 years at a number of different stadiums. Every time I have attended ASU games the attendance seems to be inflated. I may wrong but that is my perception.

ASU has a great stadium, great fans and a great football program, but it bothers me that the school would do this to make the attendance look better than it is.

JUST AN OPINION

Just step into one of the student sections next time if you want to understand how we get that many people in KBS. It's nut-to-butt and shoulder-to-shoulder. Students have to head in and hour or two before kick off if they don't want to end up on the hill. We may let in everybody but the fire marshal, but when we say 32k it's 32k. You will see on black Saturday this fall.....mmwwuuaaahahaha!

[SoCon48]

I have no basis to make this statement except for the experience gained from attending FCS/I-AA football games for more than 25 years at a number of different stadiums. Every time I have attended ASU games the attendance seems to be inflated. I may wrong but that is my perception.

ASU has a great stadium, great fans and a great football program, but it bothers me that the school would do this to make the attendance look better than it is.

JUST AN OPINION

You don't have a clue about ASU attendance.

[Accelerati Incredibilus]

East Carolina = 49,665
Central Florida = 39,614
Houston = 31,728
Southern Mississippi = 29,400
UTEP = 29,350
Marshall = 27,046
Appalachian State = 25,715
Rice = 25,571
Memphis = 23,918
Southern Methodist = 23,515
Tulane = 23,220
Tulsa = 20,379
Alabama-Birmingham = 18,360

2010 regular season attendance ave for 6 games was 29,449. Pretty remarkable considering it was against teams like NC Central, Jacksonville, a team that hasn't beaten ASU in 8 tries since joining the SoCon - Elon, a team we have beat 9 out the last 10 times we've played - Furman, a team we have beat 11 out of the last 14 we've played - Wofford, and a team we have beat 16 out of the last 17 years - The Citadel.

[Accelerati Incredibilus]

I have no basis to make this statement except for the experience gained from attending FCS/I-AA football games for more than 25 years at a number of different stadiums. Every time I have attended ASU games the attendance seems to be inflated. I may wrong but that is my perception.

ASU has a great stadium, great fans and a great football program, but it bothers me that the school would do this to make the attendance look better than it is.

JUST AN OPINION

I assume, by your name, you are a GSU fan. That in itself makes the statement pretty amusing considering for 27 years your school has been claiming to have a stadium seating 18,000 when it is actually only 14,000. The first time I walked into that place I said no way does this place sit 18,000 and your AD finally came clean a year ago on the actual number.

[blaw0203]

I have no basis to make this statement except for the experience gained from attending FCS/I-AA football games for more than 25 years at a number of different stadiums. Every time I have attended ASU games the attendance seems to be inflated. I may wrong but that is my perception.

ASU has a great stadium, great fans and a great football program, but it bothers me that the school would do this to make the attendance look better than it is.

JUST AN OPINION

Schools have been known to fudge attendance numbers both ways - higher and lower. I have never been to a game at KB Stadium but only a fool will believe that you can fit 30k+ people into a stadium built for 21k. It also seems odd that a school who reportedly sells out each home game would not increase their stadium drastically. xtwocentsx

15767 Definitely doesnt look like a sell out crowd to me

But in the end, I could care less, they still have an awesome football team. xhurrayx

[Saint3333]

Only a fool would make a statement about how many people can fit in a place they've never been.

[blaw0203]

Only a fool would make a statement about how many people can fit in a place they've never been.

I could be wrong, but a picture is worth a thousand words.

[SoCon48]

Schools have been known to fudge attendance numbers both ways - higher and lower. I have never been to a game at KB Stadium but only a fool will believe that you can fit 30k+ people into a stadium built for 21k. It also seems odd that a school who reportedly sells out each home game would not increase their stadium drastically. xtwocentsx

15767 Definitely doesnt look like a sell out crowd to me

But in the end, I could care less, they still have an awesome football team. xhurrayx

We actually seat more on the bank than we would if bleachers were installed.
BTW, our attendance is tabulated with the use of scanners scanning each ticket not by someone like you estimating.

[SoCon48]

I could be wrong, but a picture is worth a thousand words.

Which game was that? When? You need to have taken a picture after we added new East Side stands and with a more than sellout crowd. Your pic is evidently well out dated. I've NEVER seen it look anything like that in the past 5 years.

[Saint3333]

I agree you are wrong, why don't you look at the hill in one of the pictures of KBS. Then go sit in the student section, actually that won't be possible as they're packed in there so tight they can't sit down.

So when ASU adds 3,000 seats to the north endzone bringing the seating to 25K and the hill is still full will people then believe that 30K are there?

[blaw0203]

What time was the picture taken?

Not sure, but when do "the masses" come? 2nd quarter? 3rd quarter? The game is clearly in progress.

[blaw0203]

I agree you are wrong, why don't you look at the hill in one of the pictures of KBS. Then go sit in the student section, actually that won't be possible as they're packed in there so tight they can't sit down.

So when ASU adds 3,000 seats to the north endzone bringing the seating to 25K and the hill is still full will people then believe that 30K are there?

Once they add endzone seating I might believe that, but as it currently stands, and again I might be wrong, I cant fathom over 10k people paying 40bucks or more to sit on grass. Someone telling me 32k people routinely fit in a stadium built for 21k would be like someone saying they frequently take their family of 5 on long weekend drives in their 2seater porsche. Possible? Yes - would I believe it? Hell NO!

[Mountaineer]

Not sure, but when do "the masses" come? 2nd quarter? 3rd quarter? The game is clearly in progress.

Old picture is old. That appears to be from the 2007 season and if you were really paying attention the game is not in progress. That's the Apps doing their pre-game warmup thing when the home locker rooms were on the north side of the field. You can still see plenty of folks outside the gate in the background walking around/tailgating/etc.

Home side, game time (notice the students packed in at clearly a 2-1 ratio of the folks elsewhere in the stands):

http://www.goasu.com//pics/640/CC/CCHVBBKWGMZZTJT.20091024233836.jpg

[Mountaineer]

Possible? Yes - would I believe it? Hell NO!

Entirely possible and in fact happening. Another 2007 shot before the athletic complex and deck on the east side were finished. The stadium, including the hill, is filled to the brim.

http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/7277/kbs2.jpg

ASU attendance numbers are legit. Plenty of App fans on this board attend games regularly at KBS and see this stuff first hand. Believe it or not, but it doesn't make it any less true.

[citdog]

I have been to Boone about 10 times for games in my life starting in 1992. In the 90's the visitor side was not impressive and the restrooms were in a building on the side not having the locker rooms? Do i remember correctly? The attendance was nothing to write home about, about equal to what GSU draws now? My last two visits to Boone were completely different. The facility is impressive and I believe the #'s. Now if you want to talk about fudging #'s see the wofford terriers.

[GlassOnion]

I have been to Boone about 10 times for games in my life starting in 1992. In the 90's the visitor side was not impressive and the restrooms were in a building on the side not having the locker rooms? Do i remember correctly? The attendance was nothing to write home about, about equal to what GSU draws now? My last two visits to Boone were completely different. The facility is impressive and I believe the #'s. Now if you want to talk about fudging #'s see the wofford terriers.

BAM! Game Over.

[Apphole]

On some forums I've read, several fans of different SoCon schools have compared our student section to the Cameron Crazies. In energy and in how many people we can cram in a small area. It's like a Tokyo subway. Btw the new endzone seats to be added will be all students too. It's gonna be la-haaawwdd

[AppState913]

Once they add endzone seating I might believe that, but as it currently stands, and again I might be wrong, I cant fathom over 10k people paying 40bucks or more to sit on grass.

Usually students sit on the grass, and that's because they come in right before the game starts and the student sections are already filled. Student tickets are free - people who pay for tickets have either assigned seats or assigned areas to sit in.

[blaw0203]

Usually students sit on the grass, and that's because they come in right before the game starts and the student sections are already filled. Student tickets are free - people who pay for tickets have either assigned seats or assigned areas to sit in.

That makes sense.

[Accelerati Incredibilus]

With an actual seating capacity of 21,650 this photo shows the probability of an additional 8,000 people crammed on to the bank and the student section.

http://image.cdnl3.xosnetwork.com/pics21/800/RH/RHPDYAHLOHAHIGG.20100203183022.jpg

[gophoenix]

Only a fool would make a statement about how many people can fit in a place they've never been.

I find this argument interesting considering what App fans claim about opposing SoCon stadiums.

Don't you people know that the SoCon schools all draw about 4000 except for App? In fact, App's fans bloat the rest of our figures. And, you know, the Boone contingent estimates are spot on, the est of us are just mistaken.

[GlassOnion]

I find this argument interesting considering what App fans claim about opposing SoCon stadiums.

Thats interesting, because most App fans on here have been to the other Socon stadiums, whereas blaw had never been to an App game. Very intersting indeed. Just like Elon's stadium music selection.

[blaw0203]

Thats interesting, because most App fans on here have been to the other Socon stadiums, whereas blaw had never been to an App game. Very intersting indeed. Just like Elon's stadium music selection.

LOL!

[Skjellyfetti]

I find this argument interesting considering what App fans claim about opposing SoCon stadiums.

Don't you people know that the SoCon schools all draw about 4000 except for App? In fact, App's fans bloat the rest of our figures.

Y'all's average attendance, excluding the App game, in 2009 was 8,559.

Y'all drew 14,000+ for the game against us. So, yes. We bloated your figures. xrulesxxcoffeexxazzx

[PaladinFan]

This pretty much picks up right were all of the fifteen other App State to FBS threads left off. They will move if they can afford it. The probably can't afford it.

The Sun Belt would be a mistake. Sure, it would be FBS, but you'd probably have better competition and better attendance just staying in the SoCon.

[whoanellie]

just wondering what the App recruits are thinking since I a sure they were "sold" on the fact
that it was inevitable an FBS move would take place this spring. As were all the upgrades like a field
and clubhouse renovations were "porked" into a stressed NC State budget. Can I dare say missrepresentation?
Western does not try to pull this Crapp!!!!!

[Saint3333]

I find this argument interesting considering what App fans claim about opposing SoCon stadiums.

Don't you people know that the SoCon schools all draw about 4000 except for App? In fact, App's fans bloat the rest of our figures. And, you know, the Boone contingent estimates are spot on, the est of us are just mistaken.

The difference is our fans have been to those stadiums.

[gophoenix]

Y'all's average attendance, excluding the App game, in 2009 was 8,559.

Y'all drew 14,000+ for the game against us. So, yes. We bloated your figures. xrulesxxcoffeexxazzx

Elon drew 31,000 for your game last year in Boone. A good 2000 more than any other game, and more than double what Western Illinois and Villanova did (both are the types of schools you want to associate with). Looks like we, and the rest of the SoCon, bloats your numbers too. As soon as something comes out of region, the numbers drop.


The difference is our fans have been to those stadiums.

Have they? That's a real question. Everyone talks a big game, but few say where they've been and only say how many they think they took. I've been to all the SoCon stadiums too. That doesn't keep the plague of locusts from cutting me down any time we put down the bloated App numbers.

[StorminASU]

Elon drew 31,000 for your game last year in Boone. A good 2000 more than any other game, and more than double what Western Illinois and Villanova did (both are the types of schools you want to associate with). Looks like we, and the rest of the SoCon, bloats your numbers too. As soon as something comes out of region, the numbers drop.

You have to be kidding, right?
Elon drew 31,000?
Elon?

Elon was App's homecoming, so care to guess again why we had a few extra thousand in attendance??? Let's for a second live this fantasy though of the Socon bloating our attendance numbers...that means the whole Socon bloats them. Even assuming Elon did pull the extra 2,000, what other team in the Socon bloated our attendance...(crickets)...None. I've been to Elon's stadium, seen pictures/videos of Elon games vs other teams and talked to past Elon graduates about the wide open spaces that comprise Elon's football stadium. The claim the Socon bloats our attendance figures is completely unsubstantiated. GSU may be the only team who could claim that and that would be because it's always Black Saturday at Home when they come.

Way to pull playoff attendance into the discussion too. Students don't get in free, it's hard to schedule week to week, blah, blah, blah, excuse, excuse, but every App fan has to admit we don't pull well for playoffs. Regardless, I don't think Elon has much history in playoff attendance so there's really no reason to bring that up. I bet ASU did outdraw every other Socon team that was in the playoffs the past 6 years.

[AppAlum2003]

just wondering what the App recruits are thinking since I a sure they were "sold" on the fact
that it was inevitable an FBS move would take place this spring. As were all the upgrades like a field
and clubhouse renovations were "porked" into a stressed NC State budget. Can I dare say missrepresentation?
Western does not try to pull this Crapp!!!!!

0% was paid for with State funds - completely different budget, there home slice.

[ThompsonThe]

I find this argument interesting considering what App fans claim about opposing SoCon stadiums.

Don't you people know that the SoCon schools all draw about 4000 except for App? In fact, App's fans bloat the rest of our figures. And, you know, the Boone contingent estimates are spot on, the est of us are just mistaken.

What is this, "Lie Through Your Teeth (or in FElon's case Tooth) Month?

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/3078/screenshot20110508at909.png
By pigskinsteve (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/pigskinsteve) at 2011-05-09

[Accelerati Incredibilus]

I've been to every stadium in the SoCon.

[asumike83]

Here is my take: ASU is suited and booted with no date to the prom right now. If the decision was to stay put, I think they would have just announced that instead of using the budget as an excuse to delay it. I think they will wait until if/when some conference re-alignment begins to happen and then begin to position themselves for a move. Personally, I think that this is too big of a decision to rush and would rather wait until the right opportunity presents itself before we jump into anything.

[SoCon48]

I've been to every stadium in the SoCon.
Evidently not to KBS in a decade or so.

[SoCon48]

Y'all's average attendance, excluding the App game, in 2009 was 8,559.

Y'all drew 14,000+ for the game against us. So, yes. We bloated your figures. xrulesxxcoffeexxazzx

LOL

[SoCon48]

just wondering what the App recruits are thinking since I a sure they were "sold" on the fact
that it was inevitable an FBS move would take place this spring. As were all the upgrades like a field
and clubhouse renovations were "porked" into a stressed NC State budget. Can I dare say missrepresentation?
Western does not try to pull this Crapp!!!!!

Totally wrong on the moving up part. Sure, athletes were sold though, on the new facilities expansion and improvements. Makes sense since it was already going up. Should they have ignored it????
You state things about ASU have no clue about.

[Accelerati Incredibilus]

Elon drew 31,000 for your game last year in Boone. A good 2000 more than any other game, and more than double what Western Illinois and Villanova did (both are the types of schools you want to associate with). Looks like we, and the rest of the SoCon, bloats your numbers too. As soon as something comes out of region, the numbers drop.



Have they? That's a real question. Everyone talks a big game, but few say where they've been and only say how many they think they took. I've been to all the SoCon stadiums too. That doesn't keep the plague of locusts from cutting me down any time we put down the bloated App numbers.

That is the weakest rationalization I've ever read. In 2009 Elon averaged 8559 w/o the ASU game. The ASU game was 60% higher than your average. ASU averaged 29,032 w/o the Elon game. That crowd was 2500, which is roughly 9% more than our average. Half your stadium was filled with Black & Gold in 2009, I seriously doubt there were more than 500 Elon fans at the game last season. This argument, like most you put on this board, simply does not hold water.

BTW, I've been to every stadium in the SoCon.

[GaSouthern]

If the Big East decides to expand at the end of this month like SOME people think, AND, if they take UCF and another C-USA school like others think, expect the offer to App State to come quickly.

[Waco Kid]

Elon drew 31,000 for your game last year in Boone. A good 2000 more than any other game, and more than double what Western Illinois and Villanova did (both are the types of schools you want to associate with). Looks like we, and the rest of the SoCon, bloats your numbers too. As soon as something comes out of region, the numbers drop.



As others have mentioned this was homecoming which is typically the highest attended game each year. The weather was perfect that day which is another huge factor in Boone. If you look at the top 10 games for attendance you'll see that all but 2 of them were Sept or early Oct. The other 2 were Wofford on Halloween Night and WCU on an unseasonably warm day the first week of November. Of those 10 games 4 were against non SoCon teams and they were all in September. Of the 6 SoCon games 2 came against El Cid and 1 was WCU so its not like people only showed up for the toughest games.

If Elon was such a great draw for us why was this year’s game the only Elon game in the top 15 in KBS attendance? Let’s be honest most of our fans only care about coming to see the Apps play because they don't get excited about 90% of the teams we play. GSU and Furman are the only rivals we have in the SoCon.

I've been to every SoCon stadium except Samford.

[bp44]

App State is a FBS School playing at the FCS Level. Its time for them to move on. They will be a great addition to CUSA and will compete.

[SoCon48]

Elon drew 31,000 for your game last year in Boone. A good 2000 more than any other game, and more than double what Western Illinois and Villanova did (both are the types of schools you want to associate with). Looks like we, and the rest of the SoCon, bloats your numbers too. As soon as something comes out of region, the numbers drop.



Have they? That's a real question. Everyone talks a big game, but few say where they've been and only say how many they think they took. I've been to all the SoCon stadiums too. That doesn't keep the plague of locusts from cutting me down any time we put down the bloated App numbers.

Your comaprison with Nova and W Ill are totally off base. Those were play-off games and are not well attended at any of the schools. One week's notice and only one game of four play-off games.
Elon was fortunate to be playing us on our home coming. If you want to see a boost, compare App at Elon to your other home games.

[theasushow]

Elon drew 31,000 for your game last year in Boone. A good 2000 more than any other game, and more than double what Western Illinois and Villanova did (both are the types of schools you want to associate with). Looks like we, and the rest of the SoCon, bloats your numbers too. As soon as something comes out of region, the numbers drop.



Have they? That's a real question. Everyone talks a big game, but few say where they've been and only say how many they think they took. I've been to all the SoCon stadiums too. That doesn't keep the plague of locusts from cutting me down any time we put down the bloated App numbers.



You do have a point...I mean, the almighty Lenoir Rhyne did "draw" 28,802 in 2007, Jacksonville (who i wouldnt say is in "region") drew 30,710 in 2008, and 29,218 eager fans crammed in KBS in 2010 to watch perennial powerhouse North Carolina Central, so I guess those power conferences are also responsible for "bloating" the attendance numbers

[StorminASU]

This guy has quit responding after he realized he didn't know what he was talking about. Did he even look up ASU attendance figures?

[Blue Eagle]

Accelerati Incredibilus, I am happy I provided you with some amusement! I will try to provide you with some more.

Having attended most of the ASU/GSU games both in Boone & Statesboro I certainly do not believe there were 10,000 (or anywhere close to 10,000) more fans at the games in Boone.

Speaking of amusing did you really say one of the ways ASU gets so many fans in the stadium is by putting 2 fans in every seat in the student section?

BTW, I did not hear our AD say our stadium seats only 14,000, but it would not surprise me if he did. I doubt he even knows! Of course, I think it seats closer to 18,000, but then I have never counted the seats.

"JUST ONE MORE TIME"

Ga. Southern's playoff record - 41 & 11 with 6 National Championships

[blaw0203]

If the Big East decides to expand at the end of this month like SOME people think, AND, if they take UCF and another C-USA school like others think, expect the offer to App State to come quickly.

I dont see UCF going to the Big East - I also wouldnt be surprised to see USF leave the Big East and join C USA during conference alignment. The travel distance appears to be too much for them to handle. C-USA would probably go after Sunbelt members like Troy, FIU, or FAU before they go after App State.

I know the Sunbelt is an inferior conference, but if App State were to join it which they would be easily accepted, they could easily dominate it and then move on to a better FBS conference like so many other schools have done.

[SoCon48]

Accelerati Incredibilus, I am happy I provided you with some amusement! I will try to provide you with some more.

Having attended most of the ASU/GSU games both in Boone & Statesboro I certainly do not believe there were 10,000 (or anywhere close to 10,000) more fans at the games in Boone.
Speaking of amusing did you really say one of the ways ASU gets so many fans in the stadium is by putting 2 fans in every seat in the student section?

BTW, I did not hear our AD say our stadium seats only 14,000, but it would not surprise me if he did. I doubt he even knows! Of course, I think it seats closer to 18,000, but then I have never counted the seats.

"JUST ONE MORE TIME"

Ga. Southern's playoff record - 41 & 11 with 6 National Championships

Perhaps you have a gripe with the manufacturer of the scantron devices. Otherwise your estimate comes in well behind those devices. Perhaps you think Cobb takes the scantron readings then lies?? Ever take a look at the crowd squeezed in on the long end zone bank?

Take the 21,600 in reserved seats plus student section standing..how many would YOU think are in the SRO bank and environs?

PS. Your AD doesn't know his stadium capacity? You're kidding. Surely taking the plywood down added some seats or is the NCAA not still mandating it?

To your footnote: ASU 12 wins GSU 11 Points by App 618 GSU 548

[GlassOnion]

Perhaps you have a gripe with the manufacturer of the scantron devices. Otherwise your estimate comes in well behind those devices. Perhaps you think Cobb takes the scantron readings then lies?? Ever take a look at the crowd squeezed in on the long end zone bank?

I dont care what he says, that 31,000 game, I had 2 people sitting on top of me, and it was NOT in the student section. Those "seats" must be 16 inches wide...

[gophoenix]

Your comaprison with Nova and W Ill are totally off base. Those were play-off games and are not well attended at any of the schools. One week's notice and only one game of four play-off games.
Elon was fortunate to be playing us on our home coming. If you want to see a boost, compare App at Elon to your other home games.

But that's just an excuse. Are you App or aren't you App? Do you have the best fans or not? Do you have the best atmosphere or not?

You guys have made the playoffs every year but 2 since I started college. A week's notice of a home game? It's pretty much a done deal App gets a home game. So saying a playoff game is the difference between 35,000 and 15,000 is, well, doesn't seem too accurate.

[gophoenix]

You do have a point...I mean, the almighty Lenoir Rhyne did "draw" 28,802 in 2007, Jacksonville (who i wouldnt say is in "region") drew 30,710 in 2008, and 29,218 eager fans crammed in KBS in 2010 to watch perennial powerhouse North Carolina Central, so I guess those power conferences are also responsible for "bloating" the attendance numbers

It means that, your regional SoCon games seem to garner more attention from your own fans than do games against the top competition that our out of region.

[SoCon48]

But that's just an excuse. Are you App or aren't you App? Do you have the best fans or not? Do you have the best atmosphere or not?

You guys have made the playoffs every year but 2 since I started college. A week's notice of a home game? It's pretty much a done deal App gets a home game. So saying a playoff game is the difference between 35,000 and 15,000 is, well, doesn't seem too accurate.

LOL We perform play-off attendance wise with any program in all of FCS. The reason we only show 15K at a play off game is becasuse that's all we have. Hard for a team's fans to make it from PA on a week's notice. BTW.

Your jealosy is flattering. Cool that you accuse our AD of lying. That's cheap but expected.

I realize you have no experience with play-off games and their attendance. That explains a lot.

BTW. Were you there for the Elon game this year? I doubt it or you wouldn't question the figures.

[gophoenix]

That is the weakest rationalization I've ever read. In 2009 Elon averaged 8559 w/o the ASU game. The ASU game was 60% higher than your average. ASU averaged 29,032 w/o the Elon game. That crowd was 2500, which is roughly 9% more than our average. Half your stadium was filled with Black & Gold in 2009, I seriously doubt there were more than 500 Elon fans at the game last season. This argument, like most you put on this board, simply does not hold water.

BTW, I've been to every stadium in the SoCon.

As many Elon fans were at that game as were App fans in 2009 at Elon. Elon had already filled up to near 11,000 for GSU that year with little to none GSU people there. Take it for what it's worth smack master,

[StorminASU]

As many Elon fans were at that game as were App fans in 2009 at Elon.

I was at the 2009 game @ Elon and the 2010 game @ ASU. There's no way there were as many Elon fans at App as there were App fans at Elon. We can agree to disagree on that I suppose, but you still said earlier the Socon inflates our attendance numbers like we inflate theirs. Assuming (and this is a huge/improbably assumption for me) that Elon did boost ASU's attendance numbers at homecoming this year, what other Socon team inflated our numbers this year? Assuming Elon did it this year, has Elon ever inflated our attendance before?

[SoCon48]

It means that, your regional SoCon games seem to garner more attention from your own fans than do games against the top competition that our out of region.

I guess the Northern Arizona game with 27K was a regional game.

You need more experience with play-off games and their attendance. I suspect Elon (if they ever get in one) will draw half a normal crowd. Will that mean Elon's figures are bloated?

[AppAlum2003]

Playoffs are tough for all FCS teams, even the ones that get into the playoffs year after year.

Don't forget, we're talking about the 3 weeks leading up to Christmas. People make plans and Saturdays and Sundays before Christmas are extremely important (getting shopping done, Christmas parties, etc.) No "excuses" but it makes sense that playoffs are not as greatly attended as a warm September afternoon that someone has known about for literally months.

And besides, gophoenix, you're changing the subject... I've been to every home game for the last 9 years and can tell you that the fire marshall honestly should be ashamed he lets so many people into such a small space on Saturdays.

[GlassOnion]

Edit...alright GO...take it easy...UAH should have PMd you

[Waco Kid]

I was at the 2009 game @ Elon and the 2010 game @ ASU. There's no way there were as many Elon fans at App as there were App fans at Elon. We can agree to disagree on that I suppose, but you still said earlier the Socon inflates our attendance numbers like we inflate theirs. Assuming (and this is a huge/improbably assumption for me) that Elon did boost ASU's attendance numbers at homecoming this year, what other Socon team inflated our numbers this year? Assuming Elon did it this year, has Elon ever inflated our attendance before?

Elon didn't even sell out there section at App which only seats 1,000. This guy is just jealous of ASU, and mad because they can't beat us or make the playoffs. I almost feel bad for the guy. Almost

[SoCon48]

I was at the 2009 game @ Elon and the 2010 game @ ASU. There's no way there were as many Elon fans at App as there were App fans at Elon. We can agree to disagree on that I suppose, but you still said earlier the Socon inflates our attendance numbers like we inflate theirs. Assuming (and this is a huge/improbably assumption for me) that Elon did boost ASU's attendance numbers at homecoming this year, what other Socon team inflated our numbers this year? Assuming Elon did it this year, has Elon ever inflated our attendance before?

He just proves that homecoming no matter who we play is a big draw. Case in point: Lenoir-Rhyne in 2007. Presbyterian 2008. Gardner-Webb in 2007 all rank in ASU's top 10 home crowds.

[PaladinFan]

Playoffs are tough for all FCS teams, even the ones that get into the playoffs year after year.

Don't forget, we're talking about the 3 weeks leading up to Christmas. People make plans and Saturdays and Sundays before Christmas are extremely important (getting shopping done, Christmas parties, etc.) No "excuses" but it makes sense that playoffs are not as greatly attended as a warm September afternoon that someone has known about for literally months.

And besides, gophoenix, you're changing the subject... I've been to every home game for the last 9 years and can tell you that the fire marshall honestly should be ashamed he lets so many people into such a small space on Saturdays.

As a fan of a program that has made a good deal more playoff appearances than Elon, I can tell you attendance is hammered during the playoffs. Cold weather, holiday seasons, exams, unfamiliar competition, etc. all are detrimental.

[gophoenix]

Elon didn't even sell out there section at App which only seats 1,000. This guy is just jealous of ASU, and mad because they can't beat us or make the playoffs. I almost feel bad for the guy. Almost

Funny to me because they did. Not only that, there were thousands there that bought tickets. It's a fact, live with it.


Playoffs are tough for all FCS teams, even the ones that get into the playoffs year after year.

Don't forget, we're talking about the 3 weeks leading up to Christmas. People make plans and Saturdays and Sundays before Christmas are extremely important (getting shopping done, Christmas parties, etc.) No "excuses" but it makes sense that playoffs are not as greatly attended as a warm September afternoon that someone has known about for literally months.

And besides, gophoenix, you're changing the subject... I've been to every home game for the last 9 years and can tell you that the fire marshall honestly should be ashamed he lets so many people into such a small space on Saturdays.

Then the same will apply for App in a bowl. And it is excuses. If it is the weeks leading up to Christmas that are the problem, then bowl attendance will suffer for App. If it is cold vs warm, then why are November regular season games at 30k while November or December playoff games at 13k? The average temperature is of little difference for the same weeks.

And I wasn't the one that said App bloated the numbers, I said it is irony that the numbers are always accurate for arguments supporting App. Any numbers for anyone else are always questionable. It was others claiming differently.

[gophoenix]

He just proves that homecoming no matter who we play is a big draw. Case in point: Lenoir-Rhyne in 2007. Presbyterian 2008. Gardner-Webb in 2007 all rank in ASU's top 10 home crowds.

Yes, I am showing that facts get to be spun to support any argument. And that's just what we see by some of these fans in these threads.

[gophoenix]

As a fan of a program that has made a good deal more playoff appearances than Elon, I can tell you attendance is hammered during the playoffs. Cold weather, holiday seasons, exams, unfamiliar competition, etc. all are detrimental.

Cold weather doesn't affect App in the regular season.
Holiday is an excuse for Thanksgiving, but for a school like App with as many grads as they have, that should not matter.
Exams... really? That plays a part in home attendance? Exams are keeping students from a game as much as they keep them from parties. I had friends at App, please....
Unfamiliar competition doesn't hurt App during the OOC schedule against Jacksonville, McNeese and those types. So why would it for the playoffs?

Which comes back to, if this is all the case, then how the heck is a bowl game going to be different. if there is no commitment for post season now, why would that change for playing in a minor bowl against an unfamiliar team?

[Apphole]

See our National Championship game attendance to get an idea of what out bowl game numbers will look like.

[Horseshoe App]

Actually, planning for one bowl game would be quite a bit easier than trying to make all of the playoff games. For example, when Appalachian was in the playoffs and the championship was in Chatty, we had to gamble and buy tickets and reserve hotel rooms(which were non refundable) to even have a chance of getting good seats at the Championship game. If we were in a Bowl game and the stadium seated 50,000 people, we would not have this problem(or get screwed by Chatty).
Also, almost every family has all kinds of holiday plans from Thanksgiving on. This makes it next to impossible to make every playoff game.
I am one of the lucky ones who live in Boone, so it is not hard for me to make home playoff games even if we have holiday plans. But alot of my friends do not have this luxury.
So, in my opinion it would be much easier for most fans to plan just one post season bowl game than four playoff games.
Just my 2 cents.

Cold weather doesn't affect App in the regular season.
Holiday is an excuse for Thanksgiving, but for a school like App with as many grads as they have, that should not matter.
Exams... really? That plays a part in home attendance? Exams are keeping students from a game as much as they keep them from parties. I had friends at App, please....
Unfamiliar competition doesn't hurt App during the OOC schedule against Jacksonville, McNeese and those types. So why would it for the playoffs?

Which comes back to, if this is all the case, then how the heck is a bowl game going to be different. if there is no commitment for post season now, why would that change for playing in a minor bowl against an unfamiliar team?

[Accelerati Incredibilus]

Evidently not to KBS in a decade or so.

So 12-11-2010 wasn't in the last decade?

[Accelerati Incredibilus]

Accelerati Incredibilus, I am happy I provided you with some amusement! I will try to provide you with some more.

Having attended most of the ASU/GSU games both in Boone & Statesboro I certainly do not believe there were 10,000 (or anywhere close to 10,000) more fans at the games in Boone.

Speaking of amusing did you really say one of the ways ASU gets so many fans in the stadium is by putting 2 fans in every seat in the student section?

BTW, I did not hear our AD say our stadium seats only 14,000, but it would not surprise me if he did. I doubt he even knows! Of course, I think it seats closer to 18,000, but then I have never counted the seats.

"JUST ONE MORE TIME"

Ga. Southern's playoff record - 41 & 11 with 6 National Championships

It doesn't matter if you believe there were 10,000 more fans at ASU than at GSU. What matters is the totals the ticket scanners show on game day. Students at ASU printoff tickets with bar codes that are acanned at the gates. For last season's Elon game over 9,000 student tickets were scanned. Considering the remaining tickets are purchased and also scanned during entry I would say that gives a pretty accurate record of how many people passed through the gates. I don't know how many students cram into those sections, but having sat just a few rows up from the student section since the 80's I do know a lot more than 4000 bodies are in there. The 4000 number is the official number of seats in that section as figured by the NCAA mandated 18" per seat. The lower sections initially sat 5000 until they were demolished and rebuilt compliant with state requirements in 1995. As far as the 14,000 seats in Paulson goes, I read that on the GSU message board a while back. According to some Mr Baker said the stadium's seating capacity was "closer to 14,000". Perhaps some of your fellow Eagles can bring you up to speed on it.

[Accelerati Incredibilus]

As many Elon fans were at that game as were App fans in 2009 at Elon. Elon had already filled up to near 11,000 for GSU that year with little to none GSU people there. Take it for what it's worth smack master,

This post convinced me you are officially nuts. I know the ASU ticket manager very well and know your school returned quite a few of the 1000 tickets sent to them. As far as the number of APP Fans at the 2009 game in Birdland is concerned, I will let people on the board reach their own conclusion after looking at the following videos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1lsjVb7970

Another..... check out the hit at the 1:37 mark. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6Ew_lxyYX4&feature=related

And one of the game last year in Boone. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpTmpkT5tTI&feature=related

This last one clearly shows the Elon section. Keep in mind there are 7 sections that make uo the lower level. The 5 middle sections seat 675 per section and the 2 end sections seat 330. The two end sections we sell to opposing teams seat 1005.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gClFa3NKcMU&NR=1

[seantaylor]

Has Eloan ever won a playoff game?

[ThompsonThe]

I believe that felon has only played one playoff game, losing at Richmond.

[PaladinFan]

Cold weather doesn't affect App in the regular season.
Holiday is an excuse for Thanksgiving, but for a school like App with as many grads as they have, that should not matter.
Exams... really? That plays a part in home attendance? Exams are keeping students from a game as much as they keep them from parties. I had friends at App, please....
Unfamiliar competition doesn't hurt App during the OOC schedule against Jacksonville, McNeese and those types. So why would it for the playoffs?

Which comes back to, if this is all the case, then how the heck is a bowl game going to be different. if there is no commitment for post season now, why would that change for playing in a minor bowl against an unfamiliar team?

I hate agreeing with App fans, and make a point not to, but you've got GSU fans, Furman fans, and App fans, all of whom have been mainstays in the 1AA/FCS playoffs since the thing started, telling you attendance numbers drop. They do. A large part of that is because the students are home. Another large part of that is because you are playing teams from different regions who also have their students home. More often than not, in the playoffs, unless it is a big rivalry game (like an App/Furman in 2005, Furman/GSU in 2001), most visiting contingents bring only the most stalwart fans and player's parents.

Again, there's no scientific data on that, but just the observations of a bunch of folks that have been to a bunch of games.

[Smitty]

Wait wasn't this thread about App St delaying the decision?

Since they probably won't make a decision for this football season it would be interesting to see what kind of position they would be in if they do bad this season.

[Cocky]

Playoff attendance drops because everyone has to pay to get in and the university has to pay the NCAA for each ticket sold. The family passes end, free student ends, boy scouts end and all other promotions end and attendance goes down. JSU had the same issue this year so not picking on App or anyone else. FCS is like minor league baseball where you need to promote your product for attendance. And the last part, there are financial incentives to count correctly during the playoffs (Im not a big believer in the undercount theory).

[Apphole]

Wait wasn't this thread about App St delaying the decision?

Since they probably won't make a decision for this football season it would be interesting to see what kind of position they would be in if they do bad this season.

I know we lost 3 players in the NFL draft, but you don't really think we'll have a bad year do you? I mean from a WCU standpoint, a bad season is really really bad. I don't feel like >2 conference loses is possible. We have our 2 toughest games at home. Just sayin. All the folkes waiting for App to suddenly stop being so good should probably take a seat.

[gophoenix]

I hate agreeing with App fans, and make a point not to, but you've got GSU fans, Furman fans, and App fans, all of whom have been mainstays in the 1AA/FCS playoffs since the thing started, telling you attendance numbers drop. They do. A large part of that is because the students are home. Another large part of that is because you are playing teams from different regions who also have their students home. More often than not, in the playoffs, unless it is a big rivalry game (like an App/Furman in 2005, Furman/GSU in 2001), most visiting contingents bring only the most stalwart fans and player's parents.

Again, there's no scientific data on that, but just the observations of a bunch of folks that have been to a bunch of games.

And again, I understand that. And what I am saying is, App thinks that games farther off are going to bring the same number of fans, that they are going to travel well and that bowl games are somehow different.

If these problems exist for the playoffs (and a bowl game is not a national championship game), then these same attendance problems, reasons or excuses exist for for attendance in a bowl game in FBS.

[gophoenix]

This post convinced me you are officially nuts. I know the ASU ticket manager very well and know your school returned quite a few of the 1000 tickets sent to them. As far as the number of APP Fans at the 2009 game in Birdland is concerned, I will let people on the board reach their own conclusion after looking at the following videos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1lsjVb7970

Another..... check out the hit at the 1:37 mark. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6Ew_lxyYX4&feature=related

And one of the game last year in Boone. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpTmpkT5tTI&feature=related

This last one clearly shows the Elon section. Keep in mind there are 7 sections that make uo the lower level. The 5 middle sections seat 675 per section and the 2 end sections seat 330. The two end sections we sell to opposing teams seat 1005.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gClFa3NKcMU&NR=1

I'm nuts. Real Mature. I know Elon people. I know we returned 0. And I, and another 50 Elon fans, weren't even sitting close to that section. We were scattered all over the place.

3000 Elon fans in a 31,000 Kidd Brewer look smaller than 3000 App fans in a 14,000 Rhodes.

I am sorry that the truth seems bend you out of shape so much, but, hey. It seems to be your specialty.

[Saint3333]

And again, I understand that. And what I am saying is, App thinks that games farther off are going to bring the same number of fans, that they are going to travel well and that bowl games are somehow different.

If these problems exist for the playoffs (and a bowl game is not a national championship game), then these same attendance problems, reasons or excuses exist for for attendance in a bowl game in FBS.

ASU fans believe that teams like ECU and Marshall type programs will draw better for our own fans than games against our current opponents. I wouldn't say that is a stretch.

[GaSouthern]

ASU fans believe that teams like ECU and Marshall type programs will draw better for our own fans than games against our current opponents. I wouldn't say that is a stretch.

I agree, I think it's a good fit for App for a lot of reasons. I also think the SunBelt (sadly) is a good fit for GSU with games against our old hated rivals Troy and MTSU not to mention the florida duo of FIU and FAU.

With that said, if you had a home game against ECU, i'd think there needs to be another expansion to KBS to take that crowd! I could see 40K+ showing up for that one.

[asumike83]

I'm nuts. Real Mature. I know Elon people. I know we returned 0. And I, and another 50 Elon fans, weren't even sitting close to that section. We were scattered all over the place.

3000 Elon fans in a 31,000 Kidd Brewer look smaller than 3000 App fans in a 14,000 Rhodes.

I am sorry that the truth seems bend you out of shape so much, but, hey. It seems to be your specialty.

I was at both games and I agree that Elon sold out their 1,000 allotment last year and also had some fans scattered throughout but there was nowhere near 3,000. In 2009, the ASU/Elon game drew 4,000 more than the 2nd highest attended game which was against GSU. I was one of the many ASU fans who couldn't get a seat on the visitors side and had to pack in the endzone lawn, where I hardly recall seeing an Elon fan. Of the 14,000+ that were at that game, at LEAST 4,000 were in black and gold. I am glad that Elon has improved their program and I hope they continue to do it, but to imply that Elon football fans travel in anywhere near the number of ASU is just incorrect.

As far as playoff attendance is concerned in comparison to a potential bowl game, you really can't compare the two. Even when ASU has a great season and a home game is almost a lock, you don't find out whether the game is Friday or Saturday until the week of the game. This is a huge factor for those who have to work during the week and then travel. A bowl game whose time and date is announced a month ahead of time will definitely be well-attended. Michigan, LSU, Florida, ECU and soon Virginia Tech fans will be able to tell you how ASU fans travel for a road trip outside of the SoCon with proper notice.

[Smitty]

Yeah I'm not saying that App is going to do bad but if they have an average year with some disappointing losses or 2 seasons with that will the talk die down about moving up?

[Waco Kid]

I'm nuts. Real Mature. I know Elon people. I know we returned 0. And I, and another 50 Elon fans, weren't even sitting close to that section. We were scattered all over the place.

3000 Elon fans in a 31,000 Kidd Brewer look smaller than 3000 App fans in a 14,000 Rhodes.

I am sorry that the truth seems bend you out of shape so much, but, hey. It seems to be your specialty.

You're not getting the point here which is that we don't need fans from other schools to get over 29,000 people at a game. From time to time other schools will bring 1,000 fans or so to push it over 30,000, but we can pack the place without anyone from the other school showing up. If we went to CUSA I have no doubt we would get more fans for every conference game, and at least as many as we do now for all non conference games. If a team like ECU was in town we could easily have 40K App fans alone not to mention thousands of ECU fans. Obviously the stadium would have to expanded for this but you get the idea.

[SoCon48]

I'm nuts. Real Mature. I know Elon people. I know we returned 0. And I, and another 50 Elon fans, weren't even sitting close to that section. We were scattered all over the place.

3000 Elon fans in a 31,000 Kidd Brewer look smaller than 3000 App fans in a 14,000 Rhodes.

I am sorry that the truth seems bend you out of shape so much, but, hey. It seems to be your specialty.

No way in hell there were 3000 Elon fans scattered or not.
Your versions of the truth are simply opinions void of facts.

[asumike83]

Yeah I'm not saying that App is going to do bad but if they have an average year with some disappointing losses or 2 seasons with that will the talk die down about moving up?

Possibly, but I doubt it. Like anything related to college football, it's all about money. If ASU struggled consistently to the point that fans stopped coming into town and spending money then it would definitely die down, but I just can't imagine that ASU will struggle that badly anytime soon.

[bjtheflamesfan]

ALright...AI, gophoenix...chill out...you know that a lot of this could have been worked out a lot more civilly in PMs...anyway, lets keep it on topic as best we can ok folks? Cleets and UAH want to take a much less heavy handed approach to things but dont push your luck

[Accelerati Incredibilus]

Since they probably won't make a decision for this football season it would be interesting to see what kind of position they would be in if they do bad this season.

Do bad this season? We're talking App State football, not Western! :>)

[Accelerati Incredibilus]

ALright...AI, gophoenix...chill out...you know that a lot of this could have been worked out a lot more civilly in PMs...anyway, lets keep it on topic as best we can ok folks? Cleets and UAH want to take a much less heavy handed approach to things but dont push your luck

While I understand it is hard to grasp someone's demeaner with the written word, I honestly didn't think, nor intend, my use of the word nuts as an insult. Besides, I said it with a smile on my face. All this banter is fun and games to me. I suppose others take it far more seriously.

[Smitty]

Do bad this season? We're talking App State football, not Western! :>)

Bad? we went 2-9 last season and 2-9 the season before. I would say it was an average season.

[PaladinFan]

Possibly, but I doubt it. Like anything related to college football, it's all about money. If ASU struggled consistently to the point that fans stopped coming into town and spending money then it would definitely die down, but I just can't imagine that ASU will struggle that badly anytime soon.

After six national championships did you ever think you'd see a 3-8 Georgia Southern team?

I imagine the fevor would wane substantially if you had a season or two where expectations were not met. Additionally, football fans in North Carolina are a fickle bunch. I lived up there a while, and was always suprised at the football "fans" that would jump ship to basketball at the first sign of trouble. That held true pretty much regardless of school affiliation.

[Apphole]

After six national championships did you ever think you'd see a 3-8 Georgia Southern team?

I imagine the fevor would wane substantially if you had a season or two where expectations were not met. Additionally, football fans in North Carolina are a fickle bunch. I lived up there a while, and was always suprised at the football "fans" that would jump ship to basketball at the first sign of trouble. That held true pretty much regardless of school affiliation.

You see, that's what sets us apart in NC. You're description of NC football fanship pretty well sums up the attitudes of every ACC fan (sans VT and FSU). Tar Holes are fickle. I'd say you're right about it going accross the board with NC schools too with the exception of ECU and App State. Elon doesn't count.

[Smitty]

You see, that's what sets us apart in NC. You're description of NC football fanship pretty well sums up the attitudes of every ACC fan (sans VT and FSU). Tar Holes are fickle. I'd say you're right about it going accross the board with NC schools too with the exception of ECU and App State. Elon doesn't count.

Can't really count WCU either, the fans are pretty much there for the band.

[asumike83]

After six national championships did you ever think you'd see a 3-8 Georgia Southern team?

I imagine the fevor would wane substantially if you had a season or two where expectations were not met. Additionally, football fans in North Carolina are a fickle bunch. I lived up there a while, and was always suprised at the football "fans" that would jump ship to basketball at the first sign of trouble. That held true pretty much regardless of school affiliation.

I understand the GSU comparison, but you also have to consider the coaching turnover at GSU that had them trending downward for a few years. I think it's safe to say that if Paul Johnson was still in Statesboro, that program would have remained elite. Jerry Moore has a good program at ASU and he is not going anywhere. With the strong recruiting classes ASU has pulled in the last few years, I just don't see them putting a team on the field that is not playoff-caliber in the near future.

I have lived in North Carolina my whole life and I agree with you about N.C. football fans in part. UNC, Duke and Wake fans all support football when their program is successful, but it really is more of a source of entertainment between basketball seasons. Unlike their in-state ACC counterparts, ECU and ASU are undoubtedly football schools. Everything else is secondary and that is not going to change. Anything could happen and ASU could take a serious dive that would cause the fan support to dwindle but barring unexpected coaching changes, transfers or serious injuries, it seems highly unlikely to me.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Bad? we went 2-9 last season and 2-9 the season before. I would say it was an average season.xlolx

[WUTNDITWAA]

After six national championships did you ever think you'd see a 3-8 Georgia Southern team?

I imagine the fevor would wane substantially if you had a season or two where expectations were not met. Additionally, football fans in North Carolina are a fickle bunch. I lived up there a while, and was always suprised at the football "fans" that would jump ship to basketball at the first sign of trouble. That held true pretty much regardless of school affiliation.

ASU basketball would have to get a lot better for that to happen. Not just a SoCon title every now and then better, either. It would almost have to be something along the lines of what VCU did last year, with a couple of Sweet 16 runs sandwiching the Final Four appearance. Meanwhile, the football team would have to pretty much...suck...for the same number of years. I'll concede latter has a better chance at happening than the former, but even at that, it's a longshot. ASU football has been good since starting up in 1928. It's what we do. It's what sets us apart from NC schools, with the exception of ECU. App will do anything within the limits of its means and the rules of the NCAA to ensure a successful program. No matter what level it's playing on.

[gophoenix]

You see, that's what sets us apart in NC. You're description of NC football fanship pretty well sums up the attitudes of every ACC fan (sans VT and FSU). Tar Holes are fickle. I'd say you're right about it going accross the board with NC schools too with the exception of ECU and App State. Elon doesn't count.

Because App and ECU don't have basketball that anyone cares about. It's football or nothing. When fans are used to winning, and the expectations fall, fans start having issues. Unlike the ACC schools, App doesn't have a secondary program to fall back on. What's going to happen then?

And sure Elon counts. Not counting to Mr maturity is a lot different.

[gophoenix]

I was at both games and I agree that Elon sold out their 1,000 allotment last year and also had some fans scattered throughout but there was nowhere near 3,000. In 2009, the ASU/Elon game drew 4,000 more than the 2nd highest attended game which was against GSU. I was one of the many ASU fans who couldn't get a seat on the visitors side and had to pack in the endzone lawn, where I hardly recall seeing an Elon fan. Of the 14,000+ that were at that game, at LEAST 4,000 were in black and gold. I am glad that Elon has improved their program and I hope they continue to do it, but to imply that Elon football fans travel in anywhere near the number of ASU is just incorrect.

As far as playoff attendance is concerned in comparison to a potential bowl game, you really can't compare the two. Even when ASU has a great season and a home game is almost a lock, you don't find out whether the game is Friday or Saturday until the week of the game. This is a huge factor for those who have to work during the week and then travel. A bowl game whose time and date is announced a month ahead of time will definitely be well-attended. Michigan, LSU, Florida, ECU and soon Virginia Tech fans will be able to tell you how ASU fans travel for a road trip outside of the SoCon with proper notice.

Maybe 3000, maybe not. That's what I am saying about fan based "accounting" of who comes and doesn't. It's garbage.

And traveling to a single "big time" game per year is one thing. Playing in the FBS against potentially three of those per year and then a post season bowl game in the middle of all that everyone is complaining about for time. Well, the newness wears off. Right now, VT, Florida and such are a novelty. When you are FBS, they no longer are. And when or if the games are on TV (like a bowl game or even playoff games), that problem becomes worse. As much as lots of people point to the factors that have happened for lagging playoff attendance, it really only applies to Thanksgiving weekend. The rest of the games are televised and that seems to be an indicator for people not traveling and staying home too.

[asu3peat]

Our fanbase travels well, which is evidenced by our attendance at conference away games and the fact that athletic departments charge more for tickets when they play App at home. I don't believe the "novelty" of ASU playing a BCS school will ever wear off, at least not in my lifetime. A few bad seasons will no doubt hurt attendance amongst the bandwagon fans. If you look at playoff attendance, App has roughly 13,000 hardcore fans who'll show up no matter what and I'd imagine that number will continue to grow with each graduating class.

While the time of year, students having to pay, tv, weather and numerous other variables cut into FCS playoff attendance, a bowl game would give fans time to prepare. The playoffs are a weekly occurrence and if your team is fortunate enough to have homefield, that's 3-4 straight weeks of travel as opposed to just one bowl game, making the playoffs more costly. I wanted so badly to go to Montana for the semis back in 2009, I just couldn't afford it after attending the first 2 rounds (8 home games total that year). I'm already saving to make the trek out there for our home-n-home series because I can prepare. Bowl games give you several weeks to make arrangements and are pretty much guaranteed to be warm climate destinations, making it more appealing for the less hard core fans to attend.

[ASUMountaineer]

Funny to me because they did. Not only that, there were thousands there that bought tickets. It's a fact, live with it.



Then the same will apply for App in a bowl. And it is excuses. If it is the weeks leading up to Christmas that are the problem, then bowl attendance will suffer for App. If it is cold vs warm, then why are November regular season games at 30k while November or December playoff games at 13k? The average temperature is of little difference for the same weeks.

And I wasn't the one that said App bloated the numbers, I said it is irony that the numbers are always accurate for arguments supporting App. Any numbers for anyone else are always questionable. It was others claiming differently.

I will give you my opinion, which I think probably holds some truth. The attendance for the playoff games at KBS drop off because most fans care more about the regular season than the post-season. Discuss.

[ThompsonThe]

Isn't that heartwarming to see so many Elon Phoenix fans coming on to dissuade Appalachian from going to FBS. They like us, they really like us and want us to stay around and play with them. Does anyone feel like we could draw more Elon fans to a game in Boone than the total amount that would ever attend an Elon home game otherwise. Seems that way. Talk about obsessed.

[SoCon48]

Maybe 3000, maybe not. That's what I am saying about fan based "accounting" of who comes and doesn't. It's garbage.

And traveling to a single "big time" game per year is one thing. Playing in the FBS against potentially three of those per year and then a post season bowl game in the middle of all that everyone is complaining about for time. Well, the newness wears off. Right now, VT, Florida and such are a novelty. When you are FBS, they no longer are. And when or if the games are on TV (like a bowl game or even playoff games), that problem becomes worse. As much as lots of people point to the factors that have happened for lagging playoff attendance, it really only applies to Thanksgiving weekend. The rest of the games are televised and that seems to be an indicator for people not traveling and staying home too.

Same goes for an Elon fan saying how many were in attendance at a game in KBS--padding the attendance, etc.

[benchedpunter]

To me what App State does in the next few years will set the example for many others. Maybe a domino effect with them.

[Accelerati Incredibilus]

Bad? we went 2-9 last season and 2-9 the season before. I would say it was an average season.

You guys have got to get that situation turned around.

[Apphole]

You guys have got to get that situation turned around.

Eh. I kinda like it the way it is.

[Mr. C]

I tend to agree with you that ASU must not have an invite in hand. However, we differ on what's best for ASU. I also tend to agree with another poster in that the admin may believe something is going to be available to ASU sooner rather than later. Otherwise, wouldn't it be better for all parties involved to just say we're staying put?

Do you think a move to the CAA, in the event there is no available FBS destination, is a viable option?
The problem with a potential move to FBS is that it would likely have a negative impact on most of the other athletic programs at ASU. Marshall's experience is a prime example of this. Marshall gutted the rest of its program to fund the increased spending necessary for FBS football. Now 15 years later, even football is bad up in Huntington, W.V. The men's basketball program is about the only program having much success, if you can call back-to-back NIT bids success.

On the subject of the CAA, I know for a fact that the CAA is in a listening mode as far as potential new members are concerned. The commissioner said recently he received inquiries from schools the day after UMass announced it was leaving for FBS. Whether the CAA would be interested in ASU is pure speculation (though I think they probably would be intrigued by ASU's strength in football). Any conference move is going to be costly for the Mountaineers, in terms of the increased cost of travel it would heap on the other sports that ASU funds. Also, you probably would expect to see ASU drop sports such as wrestling to meet Title IX compliance. A move to FBS requires not just 22 more football scholarships, but also 22 more scholarships on the women's side (or severe cuts) to stay Title IX compliant.

[WUTNDITWAA]

Except that Marhsall has always ignored the rest of its athletics programs at the expense of football (just like they have always danced in darkest shades of gray with compliance). Have you ever seen their baseball stadium? That's not a Division III facility, much less something fit for a C-USA program. The Henderson Center, though big, was nothing to write home about in their SoCon days, either. I'm sure the only thing that's changed in that place in the last 15 years is that the green paint is faded a little more.

[Saint3333]

Also, you probably would expect to see ASU drop sports such as wrestling to meet Title IX compliance. A move to FBS requires not just 22 more football scholarships, but also 22 more scholarships on the women's side (or severe cuts) to stay Title IX compliant.

I agree Wrestling would be the first to be cut, there are now less than 100 schools that sponsor wrestling. The 22 more women's scholarships will likely come from fully funding women sports and further cuts wouldn't be necessary.

Depending which conference ASU jumped to it could actually springboard ASU's men's basketball program, a huge selling point to both the CAA and CUSA. Sun Belt basketball would be a lateral move (one bid league).

[StorminASU]

Eh. I kinda like it the way it is.

Heck, I hope it's contagious and GSU comes down with a case of from time to time.

[Waco Kid]

The problem with a potential move to FBS is that it would likely have a negative impact on most of the other athletic programs at ASU. Marshall's experience is a prime example of this. Marshall gutted the rest of its program to fund the increased spending necessary for FBS football. Now 15 years later, even football is bad up in Huntington, W.V. The men's basketball program is about the only program having much success, if you can call back-to-back NIT bids success.

On the subject of the CAA, I know for a fact that the CAA is in a listening mode as far as potential new members are concerned. The commissioner said recently he received inquiries from schools the day after UMass announced it was leaving for FBS. Whether the CAA would be interested in ASU is pure speculation (though I think they probably would be intrigued by ASU's strength in football). Any conference move is going to be costly for the Mountaineers, in terms of the increased cost of travel it would heap on the other sports that ASU funds. Also, you probably would expect to see ASU drop sports such as wrestling to meet Title IX compliance. A move to FBS requires not just 22 more football scholarships, but also 22 more scholarships on the women's side (or severe cuts) to stay Title IX compliant.

I've been told that ASU has been mentioned in CAA meetings, but a lot of the smaller schools want nothing to do with bringing in a big state supported football power. Schools like JMU, UD, and ODU would probably be ok with it but most of the rest said no thanks. I getting the feeling the CAA has two groups of schools heading in different directions. Its pretty easy to see who wants to do what if you look at the schools who have made major investments in their programs recently.

[Eaglesrus]

Heck, I hope it's contagious and GSU comes down with a case of from time to time.

I'm surprised that you hope it's contagious, seeing as how y'all are a lot closer to them than we are.

[StorminASU]

I'm surprised that you hope it's contagious, seeing as how y'all are a lot closer to them than we are.

Haha, very true. They'll probably all just linger in Cullowhee, so it won't escape the greater cow farm/pig crap area.

[ASUMountaineer]

The problem with a potential move to FBS is that it would likely have a negative impact on most of the other athletic programs at ASU. Marshall's experience is a prime example of this. Marshall gutted the rest of its program to fund the increased spending necessary for FBS football. Now 15 years later, even football is bad up in Huntington, W.V. The men's basketball program is about the only program having much success, if you can call back-to-back NIT bids success.

On the subject of the CAA, I know for a fact that the CAA is in a listening mode as far as potential new members are concerned. The commissioner said recently he received inquiries from schools the day after UMass announced it was leaving for FBS. Whether the CAA would be interested in ASU is pure speculation (though I think they probably would be intrigued by ASU's strength in football). Any conference move is going to be costly for the Mountaineers, in terms of the increased cost of travel it would heap on the other sports that ASU funds. Also, you probably would expect to see ASU drop sports such as wrestling to meet Title IX compliance. A move to FBS requires not just 22 more football scholarships, but also 22 more scholarships on the women's side (or severe cuts) to stay Title IX compliant.

Again, for the most part I agree. Marshall seems to be a favorite example of those pushing to remain FCS. Would a move to FBS destine ASU to end up like Marshall? I don't know...I think Marshall is certainly a school to learn from should an FCS team look to move to FBS. Given ASU's history of basketball, I would consider back-to-back NIT bids a success. I think a move to CUSA (or even CAA) could provide a lift for our basketball program.

Whether or not ASU should move, that's not a question I can answer. As the President says, "it's above my pay grade." I am confident in the decision makers ASU has in place--I believe they will make the decision that is in ASU's best interest.

I too think the CAA would be interested.

I think Saint is spot on about cutting wrestling and fully funding women's sports to reach the max addition of 44 scholarships.

[BearsCountry]

Marshall's mistake came when they left the Mid-American Conference for Conference USA. Marshall football didn't fall off the planet until after they made that move. They went from winning seasons and beating Top 25 Power $ix schools to losing records and getting beaten by every Power $ix school they played while scraping by FCS schools and losing to New Hampshire.

Marshall's record in 8 seasons with the MAC: 79-23 including 3 wins against Power $ix teams and bowl wins over East Carolina, Louisville twice, Cincinnati, and BYU. They also possessed a 3-0 record against Central Florida beating the Golden Knights in MAC play in all three seasons UCF was a member of the MAC from 2002-2004.

Marshall's record in 6 seasons with Conference USA: 28-44 with 0 wins against Power $ix schools, an 0-6 record against Central Florida (2005-present), and the first loss to an FCS team since moving to the Football Bowl Subdivision


Marshall made a mistake leaving the Mid-American Conference.

No the problem with Marshall was not leaving the MAC. The problem with Marshall was Mark Snyder.

[asumike83]

No the problem with Marshall was not leaving the MAC. The problem with Marshall was Mark Snyder.

Agreed. They haven't been the same since Coach Pruett left. I think the fact that the coaching change came in the same year as the conference change is the reason they haven't found success in C-USA.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Again, for the most part I agree. Marshall seems to be a favorite example of those pushing to remain FCS. Would a move to FBS destine ASU to end up like Marshall? I don't know...I think Marshall is certainly a school to learn from should an FCS team look to move to FBS. Given ASU's history of basketball, I would consider back-to-back NIT bids a success. I think a move to CUSA (or even CAA) could provide a lift for our basketball program.

Whether or not ASU should move, that's not a question I can answer. As the President says, "it's above my pay grade." I am confident in the decision makers ASU has in place--I believe they will make the decision that is in ASU's best interest.

I too think the CAA would be interested.

I think Saint is spot on about cutting wrestling and fully funding women's sports to reach the max addition of 44 scholarships.

ASUM, I agree with ya and we've done this discussion a few times now with different points and counterpoints and the fact that some were hoisting Marshall as the success story (not you) is one of the reasons I think. Some think that move is gonna be candyland just because it's to the FBS and haven't really looked at what becomes of some of those teams are a success.

Right now ASU is a mover & shaker in FCS. FCS is smaller or course but when ASU plays it has the attention of most everyone in this division. That will be lost in FBS unless there is a way that you get to compete for something with meaning at that level.

I totally agree that ASU has put together a smart group to look at all the options and they will do what is best for the University though. My take is selfish though, I'd just hate to see a great team that I have a lot of respect for go on and become another Marshall that I don't care when they play, who they play, or if they won or lost.

I used to care about Marshall much like I do ASU now.

[SoCon48]

No the problem with Marshall was not leaving the MAC. The problem with Marshall was Mark Snyder.

When the whole program suks, the coach always gets the blame.

[whoanellie]

App and Marshall both have fan bases that will not grow any larger or expand their marketing bases.
Surrounding BCS school's that they border are just too iconic. Plus these school's have peaked at FCS with
post national championships.
I hope they get their opportunity to compete at a higher level. However, Without a conference it would be catastrophic
trying to schedule a decent home schedule. An aging head coach that is comfortable where he is just does not seem to want to
carry the banner to the next level. One thing for sure he's worth 3 times what he's getting now.
Didn't someone post like a hundred messages earlier, it's all about the Money!!!!!?

[T-Dog]

Wait wasn't this thread about App St delaying the decision?

Since they probably won't make a decision for this football season it would be interesting to see what kind of position they would be in if they do bad this season.

I also think the Marshall Rule is causing an effect on this. The moment any school announces they're going to FBS, they're ineligible for playoffs or conference championships. If nothing will happen on the realignment front until next season (aka after June 1st), then it's probably just a wait until after next season ends.

[Accelerati Incredibilus]

App and Marshall both have fan bases that will not grow any larger or expand their marketing bases.
Surrounding BCS school's that they border are just too iconic. Plus these school's have peaked at FCS with
post national championships.

I can not speak for Marshall, but in ASU's case I respectfully disagree. Following ASU athletics for 30 years I have good insight into our fan base. In my eyes ASU is just beginning to scratch the surface of support. For more years than I care to remember a large number of ASU grads were fans of ACC & SEC schools because they viewed ASU and 1-aa / FCS as the minor leagues. Quite a bit has changed over the past 5 years, mostly due to the Michigan win, but there is still a large element of that mindset around. These people view the 3 NC's as a great accomplishment but still consider them as small time championships. It was eye opening to see how many ASU fans showed up for the Wake games (often as many or more than WF) but the next week struggled to get 15,000 for an important Southern Conference game. Many are disappointed at the missed opportunities to be on the same level as ECU and Marshall. Once we make it I believe ASU will see another surge in support.

[SoCon48]

App and Marshall both have fan bases that will not grow any larger or expand their marketing bases.
Surrounding BCS school's that they border are just too iconic. Plus these school's have peaked at FCS with
post national championships.
I hope they get their opportunity to compete at a higher level. However, Without a conference it would be catastrophic
trying to schedule a decent home schedule. An aging head coach that is comfortable where he is just does not seem to want to
carry the banner to the next level. One thing for sure he's worth 3 times what he's getting now.
Didn't someone post like a hundred messages earlier, it's all about the Money!!!!!?

"One thing for sure he's worth 3 times what he's getting now."

You're exactly right IMOP. But try to tell that to the folks on the MMB.

[Apphole]

App State is one of the fastest growing brands in North Carolina. Yes I said brands. When it comes to FBS football, your schools 'brand' is very important.

[whoanellie]

Agreed, the "A" brand which locally is strong just does not have the power to expand outside of their footprint because of the lack of media and other competitors like ACC ,UNCC upcoming & for the almighty $$$$ Sept. 3rd is a Va Tech game and not an App game it's on ACC TV and may or not be shown on WFMY 2 in Greensboro. It's 12:30 non prime time so far. I believe the interest to be Maxed out. Like this thread.
App State is one of the fastest growing brands in North Carolina. Yes I said brands. When it comes to FBS football, your schools 'brand' is very important.

[Apphole]

Agreed, the "A" brand which locally is strong just does not have the power to expand outside of their footprint because of the lack of media and other competitors like ACC ,UNCC upcoming & for the almighty $$$$ Sept. 3rd is a Va Tech game and not an App game it's on ACC TV and may or not be shown on WFMY 2 in Greensboro. It's 12:30 non prime time so far. I believe the interest to be Maxed out. Like this thread.

If by local you mean the high country, Charlotte, Greensboro, etc of which we have a substantial share of the market. Take it from a guy who grew up very close to UNCC and knows a handful of grads and seniors, there is little to no interest in that program with the exeption of the 5 or 6 students that live on their campus and that's only because there's nothing fun within walking distance but a TGI Fridays. The markets I mentioned above are full of App grads. I see roughly 5x more App stickers on cars when I go home than ol' UNC Concord. There is more than enough support to foster our advancement. The study results reveal it. Do some research beyond your preconceived notions.

[Cocky]

Everybody questions the support of FCS schools looking to move up to FBS, what would the attendance of Troy, Middle, Buffalo, Boise, Louisiana or any of the lower end FBS schools be if they were FCS?

[Accelerati Incredibilus]

I find it interesting how those who poo poo making the jump to FBS based on financial reasons have no issue with schools making the jump from D-II to FCS. The scholarship costs for moving from D-II to D-I FCS are almost as daunting.

[Apphole]

The censorship of this site is matched only by the Chinese government.

[StorminASU]

and I had just taken some rep away from him too. Wonder if that goes back? Jealousy needs to be removed from the board when it rears up like that though.

[Apphole]

I hope someone read my post. I spent alot of time filling it with legitimate content to respond to the braying smack. I guess anything responding to smack could be construed as smack. Bummer. Took about 20 mins on iPhone.

[49RFootballNow]

The censorship of this site is matched only by the Chinese government.

Look, we've found common ground.

[bjtheflamesfan]

If you two are going to argue like a couple of 10 year olds on the playground you have the Smack Forum and PMs for that...otherwise you can try to keep things at least somewhat germane to the topic without calling each other names...also Apphole, I moderated one of your posts because frankly...it was smack. what does naming bars near the UNCC campus have to do with the topic at hand?

[Apphole]

People take light hearted jabs at each other all the time here. Not until you posted personal attacks about me did some mod take notice. And I'd leave those restaraunts you named of my list if they were adjacent to ASU because we do in fact have bars.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I hope someone read my post. I spent alot of time filling it with legitimate content to respond to the braying smack. I guess anything responding to smack could be construed as smack. Bummer. Took about 20 mins on iPhone.

App, I just sent you a pm on a separate matter but what is this referring to? Was a post deleted here?

If it was I will get to the bottom of it and fix it. Please let me know cuz I can't see where it would have happened and I don't want this to be overly moderated as I too like and understand some vigorous back & forth.

Please pm me and let me know what happened?

[Apphole]

I just responded in a pm but I can't tell if it sent.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I just responded in a pm but I can't tell if it sent.

Got it and responded in kind to ya.

[Eaglesrus]

If by local you mean the high country, Charlotte, Greensboro, etc of which we have a substantial share of the market. Take it from a guy who grew up very close to UNCC and knows a handful of grads and seniors, there is little to no interest in that program with the exeption of the 5 or 6 students that live on their campus and that's only because there's nothing fun within walking distance but a TGI Fridays. The markets I mentioned above are full of App grads. I see roughly 5x more App stickers on cars when I go home than ol' UNC Concord. There is more than enough support to foster our advancement. The study results reveal it. Do some research beyond your preconceived notions.

My son interned in Charlotte last summer and will start a job there on June 27th. Being raised a GA Southern fan he said that one of the few things he didn't like about Charlotte was all the App State references he saw there, said it seemed to be everywhere, more than UNC, NC State or any other.

[Apphole]

Well honestly there's more Tar Hole stickers here than anything, but that is a realistic observation. Charlotte is a main market of App. It's like it's the cool thing to have on your car or shirt. Every mom dad sister brother and of course the student or alum. That my friends is brand power and it will carry us to FBS.

[Smitty]

Ah I see, selling shirts and "brand power" helps out football teams. I should let our AD know the secret to Apps success...

[SideLine Shooter]

My son interned in Charlotte last summer and will start a job there on June 27th. Being raised a GA Southern fan he said that one of the few things he didn't like about Charlotte was all the App State references he saw there, said it seemed to be everywhere, more than UNC, NC State or any other.

Maybe he should get a job in Statesboro. Just a suggestion or maybe he'll pick up some "Mountaineer" gear and join the fun.

[49RFootballNow]

If by local you mean the high country, Charlotte, Greensboro, etc of which we have a substantial share of the market. Take it from a guy who grew up very close to UNCC and knows a handful of grads and seniors, there is little to no interest in that program with the exeption of the 5 or 6 students that live on their campus and that's only because there's nothing fun within walking distance but a TGI Fridays. The markets I mentioned above are full of App grads. I see roughly 5x more App stickers on cars when I go home than ol' UNC Concord. There is more than enough support to foster our advancement. The study results reveal it. Do some research beyond your preconceived notions.

There are no facts in this statement, just baised statements based on subjecture. I think that pretty well sums up all I have to say to you on the topic and should meet the requirements of this board without meriting any further post deletions. I didn't think it was needed to denegrate UNC Charlotte to try to make an unrelated point about App St's market position in this city. I don't see how that helped your position in anyway.

[Eaglesrus]

Maybe he should get a job in Statesboro. Just a suggestion or maybe he'll pick up some "Mountaineer" gear and join the fun.

Pretty sure that there's no chance of that last thing happening. Charlotte may not be the best place for him, but he is definitely looking forward to getting out of Atlanta.

[Accelerati Incredibilus]

My son interned in Charlotte last summer and will start a job there on June 27th. Being raised a GA Southern fan he said that one of the few things he didn't like about Charlotte was all the App State references he saw there, said it seemed to be everywhere, more than UNC, NC State or any other.

That gives me such a warm and fuzzy feeling!

[Accelerati Incredibilus]

Ah I see, selling shirts and "brand power" helps out football teams. I should let our AD know the secret to Apps success...

It is really quite simple. Win 6 championships in a row, three National Championships and knock off a Top Five Big Ten School. All that fuels the engine which sells the hats & shirts, which creates the brand awareness.

[Apphole]

The snowball effect

[ASUMountaineer]

ASUM, I agree with ya and we've done this discussion a few times now with different points and counterpoints and the fact that some were hoisting Marshall as the success story (not you) is one of the reasons I think. Some think that move is gonna be candyland just because it's to the FBS and haven't really looked at what becomes of some of those teams are a success.

Right now ASU is a mover & shaker in FCS. FCS is smaller or course but when ASU plays it has the attention of most everyone in this division. That will be lost in FBS unless there is a way that you get to compete for something with meaning at that level.

I totally agree that ASU has put together a smart group to look at all the options and they will do what is best for the University though. My take is selfish though, I'd just hate to see a great team that I have a lot of respect for go on and become another Marshall that I don't care when they play, who they play, or if they won or lost.

I used to care about Marshall much like I do ASU now.

Tried to rep, but have to spread some around. xrotatehx

[ursus arctos horribilis]

There are no facts in this statement, just baised statements based on subjecture. I think that pretty well sums up all I have to say to you on the topic and should meet the requirements of this board without meriting any further post deletions. I didn't think it was needed to denegrate UNC Charlotte to try to make an unrelated point about App St's market position in this city. I don't see how that helped your position in anyway.

If you had a post deleted I apologize. It may just be a misunderstanding between the moderator & myself on what we are trying to do here. Post deletion is not something I want to see in any way if a post could be easily edited to minimize the smack on the discussion board.

Give me a chance to work it out and I will fix it.

[Skjellyfetti]

I would still include Youngstown.

Wasn't that long ago they were back in the semifinals.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I would still include Youngstown.

Wasn't that long ago they were back in the semifinals.

skelly, did you mean to put this in the top 10 FCS programs thread. Either that or I am way out of line on what we're talking about here.xlolx

[49RFootballNow]

If you had a post deleted I apologize. It may just be a misunderstanding between the moderator & myself on what we are trying to do here. Post deletion is not something I want to see in any way if a post could be easily edited to minimize the smack on the discussion board.

Give me a chance to work it out and I will fix it.

Its not really a big deal that mine or Apphole's posts were deleted. Nothing either of us have said since page 16 belong in this thread anyway.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Its not really a big deal that mine or Apphole's posts were deleted. Nothing either of us have said since page 16 belong in this thread anyway.

All the same...you have provided a learning experience and I would like it to be corrected. I don't need that kind of thing going unchecked when we could do it in a better way.

Besides it ain't much fun if we can't beat up on each other a little even if it is the discussion board.

A little.:)

[MTPiKapp]

Translation: C-USA doesn't want us and we don't want the Sun Belt(never mind the fact that Sun Belt doesn't want us either)

[Apphole]

Sand baggers and negative Nancies will not be allowed to celebrate when our move is announced. The BCS shake up hasn't happend yet as expected. That is all.

[whoanellie]

has to be frustrating to hardcore fan base but now recruits know that long cold winter nights are what you get in Boone when the leaves fall from the trees. and walkons may just find a home with start up programs that actually can offer them a Grant in Aid.... [http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=6570586 QUOTE=Apphole;1626021]Sand baggers and negative Nancies will not be allowed to celebrate when our move is announced. The BCS shake up hasn't happend yet as expected. That is all.[/QUOTE]

[ThompsonThe]

You would have to pay me big bucks to play football at fElon, even more than Carolina pays.