Abilene Christian & Div I

[TexasTerror]

Thought I had started a thread about this situation earlier, but evidently not - this is definitely something that we should keep on our radar as far as the SLC is concerned...


Abilene Christian University's consideration of a move to NCAA Division I isn't new information for most Wildcats fans in the Big Country.

ACU officials have talked openly in the past year about the possibility of leaving their home in the Division II Lone Star Conference for the chance to play in Division I. The football team would play in the Football Championship Subdivision (formerly Division I-AA), while all the other sports would be Division I.

The topic came up again this week, when ACU President Phil Schubert spoke about his university at a meeting of the Abilene Kiwanis Club.

Schubert told the Reporter-News on Thursday that his school has been looking at the possibly making such a move since last summer and he and his staff have spent quite an amount of time researching the topic with officials from the Division I Southland Conference, the NCAA and other universities that have changed divisions in recent years.

http://www.reporternews.com/news/2011/apr/28/ncaa-upgrade-appeals-to-acu-but-has-its/

[jmufan999]

with two relatively "high profile" draftees in the past few years, the NFL is taking notice of ACU... i actually already thought they were D-I, that's interesting.

[OB55]

They been operating on the fringe of NCAA regulations as long as I have watched their teams. They like to glom onto great athletes that are either in trouble with the law, or are academically unable to attend college, and work to get them on the field. Knox and Bernard Scott both were projects, and they did get their knuckles wrapped for it.

I think they might be a better fit in the SEC.


xwhistlex

[DFW HOYA]

While they're at it, call up Hardin-Simmons and West Texas A&M...

[McNeeserocket]

I find that once again whoever wrote this has no clue about Division I sports.
"ACU officials have talked openly in the past year about the possibility of leaving their home in the Division II Lone Star Conference for the chance to play in Division I. The football team would play in the Football Championship Subdivision (formerly Division I-AA), while all the other sports would be Division I."

Any school who competes in FCS in football is considered Division I in all sports!

[TexasTerror]

LSC MB discussion regarding possible new stadium at ACU... http://www.d2messageboard.com/showthread.php?42195-ACU-s-stadium-plans

[3rd Coast Tiger]

Hey! There goes your new Southland Conference members. xthumbsupx

[BEAR]

They been operating on the fringe of NCAA regulations as long as I have watched their teams. They like to glom onto great athletes that are either in trouble with the law, or are academically unable to attend college, and work to get them on the field. Knox and Bernard Scott both were projects, and they did get their knuckles wrapped for it.

I think they might be a better fit in the SEC.

Don't get me started on Bernard Scott. What a football talent he was at UCA. But what bad choices that guy made there also..that's how he ended up at ACU...among some of his stops.

[Sly Fox]

ACU has reportedly been dropping word to recruits for awhile that this is in the works. A friend's son is headed there right now to play QB. Frankly this makes a ton of sense IF they can manage the finances.

And yes, ACU has followed the lead of TAMUK by loading up on the ridiculously talented but troubled athletes who slip between the DI cracks. It will be tougher for them to succeed in the SLC without that capacity to haul in talent.

[Catatonic]

ACU has reportedly been dropping word to recruits for awhile that this is in the works. A friend's son is headed there right now to play QB. Frankly this makes a ton of sense IF they can manage the finances.

And yes, ACU has followed the lead of TAMUK by loading up on the ridiculously talented but troubled athletes who slip between the DI cracks. It will be tougher for them to succeed in the SLC without that capacity to haul in talent.

North Alabama has loaded up on troubled players who have had problems at D1 schools. I wonder if they will be as successful once they move up...just as I wonder if ACU will continue their success at the next level. The NCAA sets the bar higher for D1. No doubt about it.

[Catatonic]

with two relatively "high profile" draftees in the past few years, the NFL is taking notice of ACU... i actually already thought they were D-I, that's interesting.

Make that three--Bernard Scott, Johnny Knox, and Edmund Gates. Gates was taken in the fourth round this year by the Dolphins

[Catatonic]

While they're at it, call up Hardin-Simmons and West Texas A&M...

Your condescending attitude is duly noted. I'd suggest you look more closely at the evidence before making too many smug assertions.

Perhaps you could look at ACU's lifetime record vs current members of the SLC or compare average football attendance or athletic budgets. You will find that ACU has held its own in football, track and cross country against SLC members.

And you will find that ACU's budget and attendance as a D2 institution already exceeds the budget and attendance of several Southland Conference schools. And in terms of athletic success....how many players from the Southland were taken in the recent NFL draft ahead of ACU's Edmund Gates, selected in the Fourth round.

I suspect you would find similar results if you looked more closely at West Texas A&M as well. While neither ACU nor WTAMU would dominate the SLC, they would both be respectable additions to the current membership.

Forgive the slightly defensive post...baseless arrogance offends me.

[DG Cowboy]

ACU was a charter member of the SLC, so c'mon back. If you do, I hope you last longer than Lamar seemingly intends to be back.

[TheRevSFA]

I almost want Lamar to go to the WAC just so they'll go away

[kperk014]

Most of UNA's transfers have been DI grads with a year of eligibility left. Next up would be the victims of DI over-signing. Then we have the players seeking more playing time. Then you have the group who had gotten into trouble and are given a very short leash (just ask Jarmon Fortson & William Brimfield). Though this group is a small segment of our transfers, people tend to broad-brush our whole team as such which is an extremely $&%tty thing to do. Then there are the players who just didn't like the school they had chosen. If any of our transfers, other than JUCOs, are here because of their grades, I'm unaware of it. Because of that, I see no reason why we still can't take on SOME transfers. I believe Bowden is right when he said we will be able to recruit better high school players when we turn DI. Let's face it. When you can offer a kid a full scholarship to play DI instead of 1/8 of a scholarship to play D2, your odds of landing that player improve ten fold.

[Catatonic]

Most of UNA's transfers have been DI grads with a year of eligibility left. Next up would be the victims of DI over-signing. Then we have the players seeking more playing time. Then you have the group who had gotten into trouble and are given a very short leash (just ask Jarmon Fortson & William Brimfield). Though this group is a small segment of our transfers, people tend to broad-brush our whole team as such which is an extremely $&%tty thing to do. Then there are the players who just didn't like the school they had chosen. If any of our transfers, other than JUCOs, are here because of their grades, I'm unaware of it. Because of that, I see no reason why we still can't take on SOME transfers. I believe Bowden is right when he said we will be able to recruit better high school players when we turn DI. Let's face it. When you can offer a kid a full scholarship to play DI instead of 1/8 of a scholarship to play D2, your odds of landing that player improve ten fold.

34 transfers is a lot. Not sure how many of those are graduates looking for a place to fill out their athletic eligibility but I know neither Janoris Jenkins (Florida) nor Nick Williams (Georgia) fall in that category. Williams was unhappy and a behavioral problem at Georgia...and Jenkins flunked one too many drug tests. I'm sure the other 30 plus were model citizens. :)

http://dailybamablog.com/2011/06/23/una-stock-piles-fbs-talent/

[kperk014]

34 transfers is a lot. Not sure how many of those are graduates looking for a place to fill out their athletic eligibility but I know neither Janoris Jenkins (Florida) nor Nick Williams (Georgia) fall in that category. Williams was unhappy and a behavioral problem at Georgia...and Jenkins flunked one too many drug tests. I'm sure the other 30 plus were model citizens. :)

http://dailybamablog.com/2011/06/23/una-stock-piles-fbs-talent/

Whether you like it or not, you're right. I could come up with a list of how many grads there have been but time doesn't allow right now. Plus that number is inaccurate. AND Williams didn't have a behavioral problem. He had a run in with Ealey but I'd be willing to bet Ealey was the one with the behavioral problem. Williams was tired of being shifted from safety, to LB, back to safety and again to LB. Can't say I would blame him.

[Catatonic]

Whether you like it or not, you're right. I could come up with a list of how many grads there have been but time doesn't allow right now. Plus that number is inaccurate. AND Williams didn't have a behavioral problem. He had a run in with Ealey but I'd be willing to bet Ealey was the one with the behavioral problem. Williams was tired of being shifted from safety, to LB, back to safety and again to LB. Can't say I would blame him.

Me thinks you are in denial. I forgot to mention UNA's other transfer from UGA....Marcus Dowtin who, along with Jenkins, project to be early NFL picks. Dowtin was released from Georgia following a bar brawl in which he beat a man unconscious and was arrested for assault...

http://www.ajc.com/sports/uga/uga-lb-dowtin-faced-794031.html

Its ok with me that UNA gives players a second chance and I hope they do well. But call it what it is...for many, it is a second chance (or third or fourth) for guys who have seriously screwed up at their previous schools. Guys like Jenkins and Dowtin would not otherwise find their way to UNA, no matter how good the bass fishing is in the area.

[jmufan999]

Make that three--Bernard Scott, Johnny Knox, and Edmund Gates. Gates was taken in the fourth round this year by the Dolphins

Bernard Scott is a good player but I wouldn't call him "high profile". Knox and Gates fit that mold.

[kperk014]

Me thinks you are in denial. I forgot to mention UNA's other transfer from UGA....Marcus Dowtin who, along with Jenkins, project to be early NFL picks. Dowtin was released from Georgia following a bar brawl in which he beat a man unconscious and was arrested for assault...

http://www.ajc.com/sports/uga/uga-lb-dowtin-faced-794031.html

Its ok with me that UNA gives players a second chance and I hope they do well. But call it what it is...for many, it is a second chance (or third or fourth) for guys who have seriously screwed up at their previous schools. Guys like Jenkins and Dowtin would not otherwise find their way to UNA, no matter how good the bass fishing is in the area.

Me thinks you don't know what you are talking about. Go back and pull up UNA's roster for each of the last 3 years. Ask me about each one and I'll tell you. As for Dowtin, the reports I read said it was one punch and it was probably punch or be punched. Not defending what he did, just pointing out your lousy use of words. And no, it's their first chance at UNA. UNA gets the chance to do what their former schools couldn't: turn them around. With the exception of Fortson and Brimfield, who were sent packing, it seems to have worked. But like I said, that's a small number when compared to Chapple, Holland, Phillips, Merrow, Brown, Hawthorne, Bowens, Wesley, the 2 Thorntons, Furlong, Futch, Sims and on and on.......

[Catatonic]

Me thinks you don't know what you are talking about. Go back and pull up UNA's roster for each of the last 3 years. Ask me about each one and I'll tell you.

I'll take your word for the it....of the 34 transfers only the twp most high profile guys are felons. The rest are true student athletes and gentlemen.

[Catatonic]

Bernard Scott is a good player but I wouldn't call him "high profile". Knox and Gates fit that mold.

Concur, although having watched them both in college I would have guessed that Scott would become more of an impact player than Knox.

[kperk014]

I'll take your word for the it....of the 34 transfers only the twp most high profile guys are felons. The rest are true student athletes and gentlemen.

If you say so but I disagree.:)

[Catatonic]

If you say so but I disagree.:)

I'm just jealous. We play y'all in early September and we are fresh out of speedy bad boys on our roster.

[dbackjon]

Cat fight!!

[kperk014]

Cat fight!!

It's just this no-football time of year.

[Catatonic]

It's just this no-football time of year.

Truer words were never spoken. But the season is just around the corner.
The ACU/UNA match up should be one of the best D2 games of the year. Looking forward to the game, particularly since it is in the Cowboys home arena....Should be a great weekend.

[poly51]

Abilene Christian should move up. No more mountains to climb at Division II. 57 D-II National Championships.

Cal Poly was the Division II National Championship leader at 35 in 1994 when they moved up. They are still second in D-II Championships. Much more exciting athletic programs at D-1.

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/champs_records_book/summaries/combined.pdf

[TheBisonator]

Abilene Christian should move up. No more mountains to climb at Division II. 57 D-II National Championships.

Cal Poly was the Division II National Championship leader at 35 in 1994 when they moved up. They are still second in D-II Championships. Much more exciting athletic programs at D-1.

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/champs_records_book/summaries/combined.pdf

Hell, NDSU only won 20 DII/college division championships when we moved up (17 NCAA, 3 College Division football poll), and we got the hell outta there. For ACU with 57 of them it should be a no-brainer.

[Ll0yd]

ACU also has Radway for the Cowboys and an offensive linemen for the Steelers, not sure what his name is. Manning just moved from the Bears to Houston. I for one would love to see ACU go to Southland, even bigger later on. The only hurtle I guess they are facing is that ACU doesnt have a stadium, which they do, but its very old and small and used by the local christian high schools 6 man football team. ACU plays at Shotwell which belongs to the local school district which holds 14-15k, which during the 'Cross Town Showdown' between Abilene's two main 5A high schools Shotwell has topped out at about 19-20k before. So investing in Shotwell with a new press box, extra seating, etc, would work, but Im sure ACU would rather have their own stadium on campus. Lets not forget that ACU has an endowment of 300+ Million. They are fixing to complete a $22 million Fitness & Recreation center on campus, all of which but 40% was paid for by the school. So building a stadium, plus raising the money, donations, and corporate sponsors would turn this hurdle into a stepping stone. I would love to see them do it, they were a charter member of the Southland, I think going back would step up the competition a little bit, it is West Texas football afterall, and ACU as of lately seems to have become a WTX goldmine for unheard of talent, just look at the guys going and already in the NFL. They were talking about this last year however though, and nothing has been said since, which doesnt look good..

[Sly Fox]

Ask Aggy fan about Manning. They weren't overlooked talent, they were talent that couldn't get into DI programs. Some would suggest ACU wouldn't get those NFL caliber players anymore in the SLC.

[Ll0yd]

Ask Aggy fan about Manning. They weren't overlooked talent, they were talent that couldn't get into DI programs. Some would suggest ACU wouldn't get those NFL caliber players anymore in the SLC.

Well regardless of Manning be "good enough" or not for d1 football, he plays in the NFL and has been to a superbowl. As far as ACU losing what they have now in the Southland, I don't see that happening. The recruitment would get better I think. It's not like ACU wins the national title for D2 every year, not even close, and still has NFL scouts from all over the country there every year, like clock work, all of which I imagine will still come when and if the move to small D1. ACU loses great coaches all the time that leave for much larger D1 schools, which I think has a little to do with it. Which the football coach they have is pretty good himself and the NFL I imagine is getting used to talking with him by now, regardless of what conference or division they are in.

[Sly Fox]

Danielle Manning was a 5-star recruit that was the #1 overall prospect in the state of Texas coming out of high school. He committed to A&M as a sophomore. The Lone Star Conference gets players into school that would never hit the field in Division I. Just take a look at the storied history of the Javelinas. My piint was that if ACU were Division I, they would have difficulty getting the high caliber of talent that they now enjoy as a Division II school where the NCAA tends to look the other way.

[Catatonic]

Danielle Manning was a 5-star recruit that was the #1 overall prospect in the state of Texas coming out of high school. He committed to A&M as a sophomore. The Lone Star Conference gets players into school that would never hit the field in Division I. Just take a look at the storied history of the Javelinas. My piint was that if ACU were Division I, they would have difficulty getting the high caliber of talent that they now enjoy as a Division II school where the NCAA tends to look the other way.

First, I agree with your overall point, if not the specific example you cited. Manning might have verbally committed to the Aggies but he signed a LOI with Nebraska, where he played for a year before transferring to ACU. He chose ACU for several reasons one of which was that he could play immediately and would have not been eligible to play for a year at another D1/FBS school. And ACU has done an excellent job of finding players who were overlooked by D1 schools, as well as a couple who were known to D1 schools but did not meet the higher minimum academic standards set by the NCAA for D1. Raymond Radway, rookie free agent wr with the Cowboys, walked on to the football team after being recruited for the ACU track team. ACU record setting QB Billy Malone was injured at Tulane, left the team, went home and worked for a couple of years before returning to school. There are other examples..

Our hope is that if we move to the Southland Conference we can continue to find hidden gems, although it is true that we will no longer be able to recruit players who do not qualify for admission at D1 schools.

[Ll0yd]

First, I agree with your overall point, if not the specific example you cited. Manning might have verbally committed to the Aggies but he signed a LOI with Nebraska, where he played for a year before transferring to ACU. He chose ACU for several reasons one of which was that he could play immediately and would have not been eligible to play for a year at another D1/FBS school. And ACU has done an excellent job of finding players who were overlooked by D1 schools, as well as a couple who were known to D1 schools but did not meet the higher minimum academic standards set by the NCAA for D1. Raymond Radway, rookie free agent wr with the Cowboys, walked on to the football team after being recruited for the ACU track team. ACU record setting QB Billy Malone was injured at Tulane, left the team, went home and worked for a couple of years before returning to school. There are other examples..

Our hope is that if we move to the Southland Conference we can continue to find hidden gems, although it is true that we will no longer be able to recruit players who do not qualify for admission at D1 schools.

IF they move up, Is ACU just going to play in the Southland for Football? Or all sports? Hidden gems will always be there if you are looking for them. Look at how many guys from Abilene High are going to D1 teams this year, Sims to OSU, and 3 others to SMU. Thats just what I know of. Those are guys ACU might of had more of a chance of getting if they were D1. Colt McCoy and Jordan Shipley planned on going to ACU until UT offered. Texas Tech does alot of recruiting in the area, since the 'Little Southwest Conference' is one of the toughest divisions in Texas high school football, which is heritage to Abilene. Im just saying you can look far and wide for something you think might be perfect, when all along that Gem you were looking for was in your own backyard.

[Catatonic]

IF they move up, Is ACU just going to play in the Southland for Football? Or all sports? Hidden gems will always be there if you are looking for them. Look at how many guys from Abilene High are going to D1 teams this year, Sims to OSU, and 3 others to SMU. Thats just what I know of. Those are guys ACU might of had more of a chance of getting if they were D1. Colt McCoy and Jordan Shipley planned on going to ACU until UT offered. Texas Tech does alot of recruiting in the area, since the 'Little Southwest Conference' is one of the toughest divisions in Texas high school football, which is heritage to Abilene. Im just saying you can look far and wide for something you think might be perfect, when all along that Gem you were looking for was in your own backyard.

ACU will need an invitation from a FCS conference to move up. I would say it is highly unlikely that the SLC would invite a school to move up for a single sport....I imagine it is all or nothing. We would be very competitive in Mens and Womens track and Cross Country...somewhat competitive is most other sports...and struggle in basketball, at least for now.