New Info on ASU FBS Study

[Accelerati Incredibilus]

A invitation only meeting on the progress of ASU’s FBS Study was held today at Rock Barn Country Club. ASU AD Charlie Cobb, Head of ASU Athletic Development Rick Beasley and a member of the consultant group made the presentation. Here are a few of the more interesting tidbits discussed.

Two major issues are driving this study. The growing differences in philosophy and ambition of ASU and the rest of the SoCon, primarily the private football playing institutions, and UNCC’s addition of football.

ASU’s budget is currently $14 million behind the top schools in CUSA Rice and SMU. Of course those are private institutions which have scholarship costs of $10 million and $8 million respectively. ASU is $7 million behind ECU, nothing on the gap between Marshall and ASU. Seventy percent of the $7 million is for travel, additional coaches and increased salaries. A little over $2 million would be made up through conference TV revenues and the remaining would come from increased ticket prices and increased game guarantees. At current attendance numbers a $15 increase per game ticket would net and additional $1.9 million annually (based on 21,000 paying customers and a 6 game schedule). With a maximum target for stadium seating set at 35,000 (due to infrastructure restrictions in Boone) the revenues generated from an additional 10,000 tickets sold per game (averaged out) would be $2.7 million. The increased ticket revenue would account for $4.6 of the $5 million needed. Increases in game guarantees would make up any shortfalls. As a FCS program ASU will receive $350,000 for our trip to UGA. As a FBS program that figure would swell to around $900,000. Two large guarantee games will generate nearly $2 million annually. The consultants are confident ASU can raise the additional revenues to compete in CUSA. Obviously there needs to be an invite on the table. Stadium expansion costs also need to be considered, but it is my guess members of the study committee have been targeted for that.

Most teams charter flights so getting teams to Boone is not a problem with the runway at the Hickory airport ability to handle jets. It is a 45 min drive up the mountain. In contrast, teams playing Penn State land 2 hours away, UGA 1 hr 45 minutes away, Ole Miss 1 hr 45 minutes away in Memphis, TN, Auburn 45 minutes to Montgomery AL, and Clemson flies 1 hour to the Greenville / Spartanburg Airport.

Sun Belt is not an option as the revenues are not there to offset almost the same travel requirements. Hands down the best case scenario is a move to CUSA. Since the formation of an east coast WAC seems highly unlikely the second best would be a move to the CAA with a plan for the entire conference to make the move to FBS. Obviously that would require schools step up to the plate while some would likely look elsewhere.

[bojeta]

What sort of capacity do the other CUSA team stadiums have? Will they be interested in games at ASU before or even after expansion to 35000? I hope things work out for ASU. They have a great program and certainly deserve good things. Would be a big loss for FCS.

[49RFootballNow]

What sort of capacity do the other CUSA team stadiums have? Will they be interested in games at ASU before or even after expansion to 35000? I hope things work out for ASU. They have a great program and certainly deserve good things. Would be a big loss for FCS.

Tulane Louisiana Superdome 72,968
UAB Legion Field 71,594
Memphis Liberty Bowl Memorial Stadium 62,380
UTEP Sun Bowl Stadium 51,500
East Carolina Dowdy–Ficklen Stadium 50,000
Rice Rice Stadium 47,000
UCF Bright House Networks Stadium 45,301
Southern Miss M. M. Roberts Stadium 40,000
Marshall Joan C. Edwards Stadium 38,019
Houston Robertson Stadium 32,000
SMU Gerald J. Ford Stadium 32,000
Tulsa H. A. Chapman Stadium 30,000

[JSU02]

FYI, UAB is about to build an on campus stadium holding < 35,000

[DFW HOYA]

At current attendance numbers a $15 increase per game ticket would net and additional $1.9 million annually (based on 21,000 paying customers and a 6 game schedule). With a maximum target for stadium seating set at 35,000 (due to infrastructure restrictions in Boone) the revenues generated from an additional 10,000 tickets sold per game (averaged out) would be $2.7 million. The increased ticket revenue would account for $4.6 of the $5 million needed. Increases in game guarantees would make up any shortfalls. As a FCS program ASU will receive $350,000 for our trip to UGA. As a FBS program that figure would swell to around $900,000. Two large guarantee games will generate nearly $2 million annually. The consultants are confident ASU can raise the additional revenues to compete in CUSA. Obviously there needs to be an invite on the table. Stadium expansion costs also need to be considered, but it is my guess members of the study committee have been targeted for that.

ASU has to think beyond football as well--schools pay heavily for travel in other sports.

Realistically, I don't think the votes are there for C-USA. Hard to see a lot of support from the likes of UTEP, SMU, Rice, Tulsa, Houston, and Tulane.

[Skjellyfetti]

Tulane Louisiana Superdome 72,968
UAB Legion Field 71,594
Memphis Liberty Bowl Memorial Stadium 62,380
UTEP Sun Bowl Stadium 51,500
East Carolina Dowdy–Ficklen Stadium 50,000
Rice Rice Stadium 47,000
UCF Bright House Networks Stadium 45,301
Southern Miss M. M. Roberts Stadium 40,000
Marshall Joan C. Edwards Stadium 38,019
Houston Robertson Stadium 32,000
SMU Gerald J. Ford Stadium 32,000
Tulsa H. A. Chapman Stadium 30,000

and for actual attendance:

ECU: 49,665
UCF: 39,614
Houston: 31,720
Southern Miss: 29,400
UTEP: 29,350
Marshall: 27,046
Rice: 25,571
Memphis: 23,918
SMU: 23,515
Tulane: 23,220
Tulsa: 20,379
UAB: 18,360



We averaged around 29k in the regular season against these teams: Jacksonville, NC Central, Elon, Citadel, Furman, Wofford. That attendance would put us 5th or 6th in C-USA. With the addition of more seats this year and an FBS schedule... that would go even higher. xnodx

[Blueandwhitefightfight]

Dear App. St.,

Please don't go. I'm asking nicely. Without you, the SoCon is just not the same.


Sincerely, J.H.

[Green26]

Thanks for the report. Interesting.

I don't understand the numbers. Where does the $5 million more annually come from, and how does that fit with the shortfall with other lower level CUSA schools?

Is the $5 million a number from the consultants, or related to 70% of $7 million?

Are you saying that ASU would have to increase ticket prices by $15 per ticket and sell 10,000 more tickets per game?

Any idea how much that big of a stadium expansion would cost?

Again, thanks.

[glsjunior]

Also, what about Basketball? That is a big step up from the SOCON. And what about the Title IX sport you have to add?

[chattanoogamocs]

What scares me (because it directly affects Chattanooga) is that ASU will kill the wrestling program to make up part of the title IX issue of adding football scholarships.

Sadly, that is probably one of the simplest ways to make up part of the scholarship difference (it doesn't help that their 30+ year head coach retired recently)

[T-Dog]

What scares me (because it directly affects Chattanooga) is that ASU will kill the wrestling program to make up part of the title IX issue of adding football scholarships.

Sadly, that is probably one of the simplest ways to make up part of the scholarship difference (it doesn't help that their 30+ year head coach retired recently)

It's definitly a possibility. Especially now that UNCG has killed their wrestling program and thus leaves the SoCon at 5 teams (one of which is associate member VMI).

However App hosts THE largest summer wrestling camp in the country which is very profitable and there would be a list of wrestling alum a mile long to try to save the program.

CUSA doesn't sponsor wrestling, but I think wrestling is safer at App than one would expect. It's alot safer than men's golf or men's tennis.

[chattanoogamocs]

Also, what about Basketball? That is a big step up from the SOCON. And what about the Title IX sport you have to add?

Let's be honest (ASU fans, try not to get too riled up for me saying this), ASU fans seem to be kind of like Marshall fans in that most would be willing sacrifice (at least for the short term) success in other programs to chase the dream of big time football.

MU pretty much gutted their athletics program to put all their eggs in to football...and are just now really starting to get a footing back in sports like basketball.

And that is not a condemnation, just a reality. Tickets sales are like votes and about 10-15 times as many people are voting for ASU football over ASU basketball right now (2010-11 attendance average: 1,748). You go where your fans put down their money.

At 1,748, ASU would be last in attendance in the C-USA this year (7 of 12 C-USA schools average over 5,000)...though, no doubt, ASU's attendance would go up at least somewhat from just the competition upgrade coming to Boone (homes games vs Memphis, etc)

(I will put in one little dig that the Chattanooga women's team averaged 1,920 this year, almost 200 more a game than the ASU men, and the LMs had their worst record in 13 years...full disclosure though: the LMs 12 consecutive SoCon title streak was broken this year by....the ASU women xsmiley_wix)

[chattanoogamocs]

It's definitly a possibility. Especially now that UNCG has killed their wrestling program and thus leaves the SoCon at 5 teams (one of which is associate member VMI).

However App hosts THE largest summer wrestling camp in the country which is very profitable and there would be a list of wrestling alum a mile long to try to save the program.

CUSA doesn't sponsor wrestling, but I think wrestling is safer at App than one would expect. It's alot safer than men's golf or men's tennis.

And obviously, if ASU didn't kill wrestling, I can't imagine they wouldn't stay in the SoCon (since there is really no where else for them to go).

Not to get to far off topic...but I assume that the SoCon will go after G-Webb or Liberty to keep the auto-qualifier status for the conference.

(and our coach has already stated in the paper that if UNCG is no longer interested in the Southern Scuffle, that they would be happy to take it over and host it in Chattanooga)

As a former Mocs cross country runner (who almost saw the program cut under Steve Sloan)...I hate to see any programs get the axe. But, as a big wrestling fan, I really hope ASU doesn't cut wrestling, even if it means cutting other sports (as it actually draws a crowd, unlike golf or tennis)

[tarmac]

What scares me (because it directly affects Chattanooga) is that ASU will kill the wrestling program to make up part of the title IX issue of adding football scholarships.

Sadly, that is probably one of the simplest ways to make up part of the scholarship difference (it doesn't help that their 30+ year head coach retired recently)


UNCG just announced they are dropping wrestling.

From UNCG's release:

CONTACT: Tim George – Associate AD for External Operations (OFFICE: 336-256-1138/[email protected])

DATE: March 14, 2011

GREENSBORO, N.C. – UNCG and Director of Athletics Kim Record announced today the elimination of the wrestling program as a part of UNCG intercollegiate athletics.

Record met with the team’s coaches and student-athletes earlier in the day to inform them of the decision.

“The University’s Strategic Plan has a goal of increasing the competitiveness, accessibility and visibility of its intercollegiate athletics program. Over the past 18 months we have considered many strategies to accomplish this goal and it became obvious that painful decisions needed to be made.” said Record. “It pains us as a department that things have come to this point, but in today’s economic climate, tough decisions like this are having to be made around the nation. I would like to thank Jason (Loukides) and Daren (Burns) for all of the hard work they have put into the program, and we will do whatever is possible in order to help them further themselves professionally.”

One major objective of UNCG’s Strategic Plan is to elevate the profile of the athletic department. In order to accomplish this in the most efficient manner, limited resources must be invested wisely. The elimination of the wrestling program will result in a cost savings of approximately $308,000 annually.

Additionally, the 2010-2011 state budget repealed eligibility for out-of-state students on full athletic scholarships to be classified as in-state for tuition purposes. For UNCG, this resulted in a loss of $750,000 in student-athlete scholarship funds.

“This decision demonstrates that every division at the university is doing its part to share the burden of cost-saving initiatives,” said UNCG Chancellor Linda P. Brady. “These decisions are especially painful when students are directly impacted.”

Two full-time coaches and 35 student-athletes will be directly affected by this decision. The contracts of the two coaches will be honored through June 30, 2011. The 23 student-athletes who receive scholarship funds will have their current scholarship levels honored if they choose to remain at UNCG to continue their education.

For those student-athletes who wish to continue their athletics pursuits elsewhere, the university will provide assistance to them. Per NCAA guidelines, student-athletes who transfer because their athletic programs have been eliminated will be able to compete immediately upon transferring.

[PaladinFan]

Define further the comment that App has an ambition and philosophy different than the SoCon schools.

I would wager all of the conference schools are committed to putting together the best FCS football conference in the country. Now, if the difference your speaking of is the desire to rearrange the entire school budget to fit in a move to the FBS, then no, that is a philosophical difference.

[bluehenbillk]

In contrast, teams playing Penn State land 2 hours away, UGA 1 hr 45 minutes away, Ole Miss 1 hr 45 minutes away in Memphis, TN, Auburn 45 minutes to Montgomery AL, and Clemson flies 1 hour to the Greenville / Spartanburg Airport.



I don't know where that info is coming but the Penn State info is incorrect. Teams fly directly into State College & have for a long time.

[Franks Tanks]

I don't know where that info is coming but the Penn State info is incorrect. Teams fly directly into State College & have for a long time.

Ya, i'm pretty sure the airport at State College was expanded years ago and it can handle the majority of jets a team would charter. In the old days teams would fly into Harrisburg.

In any event teams getting to App State isn't a problem, but visting fans from Texas, La, and Oklahoma may have some difficulty.

[The Eagle's Cliff]

Define further the comment that App has an ambition and philosophy different than the SoCon schools.

I would wager all of the conference schools are committed to putting together the best FCS football conference in the country. Now, if the difference your speaking of is the desire to rearrange the entire school budget to fit in a move to the FBS, then no, that is a philosophical difference.

I think Ga Southern has the same "difference". We're Public Institutions experiencing growth and gaining more research capacity. The SoCon has been trying to be the Southern Ivy League for a long time - and that's fine, but App St., Ga Southern, Chattanooga, Western, etc. do not fit that mold. Schools like ours (Directional U's) have all the elements in place to compete at the highest levels of Collegiate Athletics EXCEPT finances. The struggles with finances are a combination of a smaller and younger alumni base, Big School Tradition in our back yard, and (at least in GSU's case) little to no representation on the Board of Regents.

App St.'s formula will work and it probably won't be long (5 years) before you see something similar at Ga Southern. East Carolina made the right choice by toughing it out as an Independent instead of becoming I-AA. I-AA is a great idea and an entertaining and competitive division, but the NCAA is too busy waiting for the crumbs to fall from the Bowl table to aggressively market their own Division I Championship.

[AppMan]

Got pretty much the same info yesterday except for the ticket pricing stuff which is probably conjecture on someone's part. As far as a difference of philosophy from the private schools goes, I've seen it first hand since the 80's when I attended numerous conference meetings as part of the media. It was evident from the way the groups socialized and more importantly, how they voted. I think the point about Penn State was specificially targeted towards football. Many football teams choose to stay some distance from the campus and bus in. I'm just guessing, but perhaps the next closest airport is two hours away. Obviously that wouldn't be the case for basketball.

People who know me may be shocked by this, but other than playing ECU. So Miss, Marshall and perhaps Memphis (I am assuming UCF will leave for the BE) I could care less about the rest of that league. I realize TV $'s mean a lot in today's world of tight budgets, but with a more compact league those big dollars wouldn't be needed. My preference would be to see a new FBS conference emerge within the mid atlantic states.

I think ASU, Charlotte, Delaware, ECU, JMU, Marshall, Navy, ODU and Temple would make a great conference or eastern arm of CUSA. A good mix of established FBS schools, top FCS programs and a couple of newcomers with great potential. The basketball has good roots with Temple, ODU and Charlotte. Baseball has solid programs in ECU, Charlotte, JMU and ASU.

[Smitty]

I think Ga Southern has the same "difference". We're Public Institutions experiencing growth and gaining more research capacity. The SoCon has been trying to be the Southern Ivy League for a long time - and that's fine, but App St., Ga Southern, Chattanooga, Western, etc. do not fit that mold. Schools like ours (Directional U's) have all the elements in place to compete at the highest levels of Collegiate Athletics EXCEPT finances. The struggles with finances are a combination of a smaller and younger alumni base, Big School Tradition in our back yard, and (at least in GSU's case) little to no representation on the Board of Regents.


I find it hard to believe that other schools in the Socon are not experiencing growth to fit your "mold". Probably not in football...

And to be honest I thought they were building dorms and new buildings all over WCU just to have empty buildings.

[JMUDuke2002]

Got pretty much the same info yesterday except for the ticket pricing stuff which is probably conjecture on someone's part. As far as a difference of philosophy from the private schools goes, I've seen it first hand since the 80's when I attended numerous conference meetings as part of the media. It was evident from the way the groups socialized and more importantly, how they voted. I think the point about Penn State was specificially targeted towards football. Many football teams choose to stay some distance from the campus and bus in. I'm just guessing, but perhaps the next closest airport is two hours away. Obviously that wouldn't be the case for basketball.

People who know me may be shocked by this, but other than playing ECU. So Miss, Marshall and perhaps Memphis (I am assuming UCF will leave for the BE) I could care less about the rest of that league. I realize TV $'s mean a lot in today's world of tight budgets, but with a more compact league those big dollars wouldn't be needed. My preference would be to see a new FBS conference emerge within the mid atlantic states.

I think ASU, Charlotte, Delaware, ECU, JMU, Marshall, Navy, ODU and Temple would make a great conference or eastern arm of CUSA. A good mix of established FBS schools, top FCS programs and a couple of newcomers with great potential. The basketball has good roots with Temple, ODU and Charlotte. Baseball has solid programs in ECU, Charlotte, JMU and ASU.

A new east cost league would be ideal, but I don't see it anytime soon.

As for flights into PSU, state college airport has a 6,700 feet of runway. More than capable of handling flights for teams--it was expanded after State joined the Big Ten. The nearest large aiport is Harrisburg (90 minutes by car, 2 by bus), where some teams fly in to stay. I think the point is that other schools have done it in the past. 45 minutes is no big deal for teams to fly in.

[Waco Kid]

and for actual attendance:

ECU: 49,665
UCF: 39,614
Houston: 31,720
Southern Miss: 29,400
UTEP: 29,350
Marshall: 27,046
Rice: 25,571
Memphis: 23,918
SMU: 23,515
Tulane: 23,220
Tulsa: 20,379
UAB: 18,360



We averaged around 29k in the regular season against these teams: Jacksonville, NC Central, Elon, Citadel, Furman, Wofford. That attendance would put us 5th or 6th in C-USA. With the addition of more seats this year and an FBS schedule... that would go even higher. xnodx

ASU averaged 29,440 during the regular season last year which would put ASU 4th.

[PaladinFan]

I think Ga Southern has the same "difference". We're Public Institutions experiencing growth and gaining more research capacity. The SoCon has been trying to be the Southern Ivy League for a long time - and that's fine, but App St., Ga Southern, Chattanooga, Western, etc. do not fit that mold. Schools like ours (Directional U's) have all the elements in place to compete at the highest levels of Collegiate Athletics EXCEPT finances. The struggles with finances are a combination of a smaller and younger alumni base, Big School Tradition in our back yard, and (at least in GSU's case) little to no representation on the Board of Regents.

App St.'s formula will work and it probably won't be long (5 years) before you see something similar at Ga Southern. East Carolina made the right choice by toughing it out as an Independent instead of becoming I-AA. I-AA is a great idea and an entertaining and competitive division, but the NCAA is too busy waiting for the crumbs to fall from the Bowl table to aggressively market their own Division I Championship.

I hear that argument regularly, particularly from GSU fans, but I have never heard anyone with any authority suggest its veracity. My point is, saying that the SoCon wants to be a private school only league, and that actually being the case are two different things.

[Waco Kid]

I hear that argument regularly, particularly from GSU fans, but I have never heard anyone with any authority suggest its veracity. My point is, saying that the SoCon wants to be a private school only league, and that actually being the case are two different things.


I think it also has to do with the atmosphere and support at the different schools in the SoCon. Most of the private schools enjoy and embrace the idea of having a solid small college football program. Fans can enjoy a little tailgating and socializing before walking into the stadium just before kickoff to enjoy the game then be on the road in 15 minutes after it’s over. There is nothing at all wrong with that, and there is something to be said for having a relaxing afternoon watching a college game. I guess you could say these schools enjoy having a more intimate and personal feel to their program.

ASU and GSU fans have embraced a little bit of a different game day experience where thousands of people tailgate for 4 or 5 hours then pack into the stadium for a high energy atmosphere. The other schools have a game or two a year where they get like this, but from what I've seen it’s usually when GSU or ASU are in town. UTC seems to be making a push to get to that level as well, but that could take a few more years.

[DFW HOYA]

I think it also has to do with the atmosphere and support at the different schools in the SoCon. Most of the private schools enjoy and embrace the idea of having a solid small college football program. Fans can enjoy a little tailgating and socializing before walking into the stadium just before kickoff to enjoy the game then be on the road in 15 minutes after it’s over. There is nothing at all wrong with that, and there is something to be said for having a relaxing afternoon watching a college game. I guess you could say these schools enjoy having a more intimate and personal feel to their program. ASU and GSU fans have embraced a little bit of a different game day experience where thousands of people tailgate for 4 or 5 hours then pack into the stadium for a high energy atmosphere. The other schools have a game or two a year where they get like this, but from what I've seen it’s usually when GSU or ASU are in town. UTC seems to be making a push to get to that level as well, but that could take a few more years.

The Southern Conference is very resilient--it evolved after losing the SEC schools, then the ACC schools, then West Virginia and Virginia Tech, then Richmond and W&M. If ASU and GSU left, the SoCon would still be viable.

[gophoenix]

I hear that argument regularly, particularly from GSU fans, but I have never heard anyone with any authority suggest its veracity. My point is, saying that the SoCon wants to be a private school only league, and that actually being the case are two different things.

And that is exactly the point. Only 3 of the last 5 additions have been private; and all of those (short of App not voting for Elon) were unanimous. It seems like a scape goat reason for the push rather than a real reason.

After all, it's not like Elon, Furman and Samford aren't growing. And it makes me wonder what the reason would be if ETSU and VMI were still here while Samford and Elon weren't. The conference as a whole is better with them both and attendance for the conference s a whole (and at each school) has increased with them as a part. So, what's the real reason?

Besides, the conference isn't going to fall apart if App and GSU leave. It survived the creation of the SEC and ACC. It survived Tech, West Virginia and ECU leaving. It survived Marshall leaving. It'll survive this too when both GSU and App leave.

[panama]

Scary to hear anyone besides us message board geeks actually talk about 1) No to Sunbelt and 2) CAA to FBS. That difference in revenue from an FBS game says it all. Hard to ignore $350k vs $900k.

[PaladinFan]

I think it also has to do with the atmosphere and support at the different schools in the SoCon. Most of the private schools enjoy and embrace the idea of having a solid small college football program. Fans can enjoy a little tailgating and socializing before walking into the stadium just before kickoff to enjoy the game then be on the road in 15 minutes after it’s over. There is nothing at all wrong with that, and there is something to be said for having a relaxing afternoon watching a college game. I guess you could say these schools enjoy having a more intimate and personal feel to their program.

ASU and GSU fans have embraced a little bit of a different game day experience where thousands of people tailgate for 4 or 5 hours then pack into the stadium for a high energy atmosphere. The other schools have a game or two a year where they get like this, but from what I've seen it’s usually when GSU or ASU are in town. UTC seems to be making a push to get to that level as well, but that could take a few more years.

I can understand that position to a point. As a avid follower of both Auburn and Furman, I can appreciate the more relaxed atmosphere and the occassional need to sit in the stands with 90k other folks (I generally prefer the former).

Perhaps I'm being obtuse, but I don't see how the atmosphere of the other schools should dictate the decision. Joe App-Fan isn't going to make the trip to Hattisburg or El Paso, so what does it matter their atmosphere?

[GlassOnion]

And that is exactly the point. Only 3 of the last 5 additions have been private; and all of those (short of App not voting for Elon) were unanimous. It seems like a scape goat reason for the push rather than a real reason.

After all, it's not like Elon, Furman and Samford aren't growing. And it makes me wonder what the reason would be if ETSU and VMI were still here while Samford and Elon weren't. The conference as a whole is better with them both and attendance for the conference s a whole (and at each school) has increased with them as a part. So, what's the real reason?

Besides, the conference isn't going to fall apart if App and GSU leave. It survived the creation of the SEC and ACC. It survived Tech, West Virginia and ECU leaving. It survived Marshall leaving. It'll survive this too when both GSU and App leave.

Ok, you caught us, we're moving just because we dont like you.

And Samford is not growing. You obviously havent been to a game there, and they will likely get worse if they go through a coaching change.

App floats the Socon. It is used as leverage on the Sportsouth deal, which is why App gets 3-4 games a year, and it provides a surge in revenue to every other Socon member, ie Elon game. Conversely, App, must depend on only itself to bring fans in the door, with only a couple exceptions, ie GSU. App and GSU bring national exposure to the Socon, what benefit does elon bring?

In short, ASU benefits the Socon much more than the Socon benefits App. Thats all the reason you need to move on, plain and simple.

[Apphole]

Perhaps I'm being obtuse, but I don't see how the atmosphere of the other schools should dictate the decision. Joe App-Fan isn't going to make the trip to Hattisburg or El Paso, so what does it matter their atmosphere?

If C-USA makes an East West split, our travel distances won't change much. To a fan base that is already well known for traveling well, the prospect of driving six hours to play big schools rather than tiny private schools is huge. Especially when only 1 or 2 teams in the whole conference can compete in any given year. We accounted for 1/5 of the crowd at ECU 2 years ago and during the second half, when we came all the way back to within 5, it was very loud.

[The Eagle's Cliff]

I find it hard to believe that other schools in the Socon are not experiencing growth to fit your "mold". Probably not in football...

And to be honest I thought they were building dorms and new buildings all over WCU just to have empty buildings.
xconfusedx Didn't I include Western as one of the schools growing out of the SoCon mold?

I'm not at all saying anything negative about the SoCon. I just think App St and GSU are headed in a different direction. Chattanooga isn't far behind and Western may grow beyond it as well. Furman, Wofford, Samford, Davidson, The Citadel, and College of Charleston are different kinds of schools than the public Directional U's. The reason we're in the SoCon is because there's no Eastern version of the WAC and Mountain West.

For us, sports is "front porch" of the University. Reclassifying to FBS will expand our market reach and enhance our status with the general (ignorant) public. I haven't researched the endowment numbers, but I'd bet Furman and others don't have any worries in that department.

[Smitty]

xconfusedx Didn't I include Western as one of the schools growing out of the SoCon mold?

I'm not at all saying anything negative about the SoCon. I just think App St and GSU are headed in a different direction. Chattanooga isn't far behind and Western may grow beyond it as well. Furman, Wofford, Samford, Davidson, The Citadel, and College of Charleston are different kinds of schools than the public Directional U's. The reason we're in the SoCon is because there's no Eastern version of the WAC and Mountain West.

For us, sports is "front porch" of the University. Reclassifying to FBS will expand our market reach and enhance our status with the general (ignorant) public. I haven't researched the endowment numbers, but I'd bet Furman and others don't have any worries in that department.

Ah sorry just read it differently...

[AppMan]

Define further the comment that App has an ambition and philosophy different than the SoCon schools.

I would wager all of the conference schools are committed to putting together the best FCS football conference in the country. Now, if the difference your speaking of is the desire to rearrange the entire school budget to fit in a move to the FBS, then no, that is a philosophical difference.

In 1975 the SoCon was made up of Citadel, Davidson, Furman, Richmond, VMI, W&M and two the interlopers ASU and ECU. Don't even begin to tell me the private schools today wouldn't love to have Richmond (if only for football) and W&M back in the fold. A league with Citadel, Davidson (no fb), Elon, Furman, Richmond (no bb), Samford, VMI, W&M, and Wofford would be taylor made for you guys. Might as well add Gardner Webb for 9 football and 9 basketball schools and make it the ultimate private / small high academic state university conference.

[ElonPride]

App floats the Socon.

what benefit does elon bring?



You are talking about one sport......in every other sport, App nowhere NEAR floats the SoCon. Men's Bball - underachieving and 8th in the SoCon in attendance. Women's bball - good team, 5th in attendance. Baseball, pretty much a horrid program.....and by the way, Elon leads the series with App 59-13 xlolx

So that covers what are considered the "revenue" sports (aside from football). App floats the conference? Nope.

So what did Elon bring to the table? A regional power in baseball and multiple AT LARGE bids to the DI tournament....ie national exposure unlike what you implied. Various other athletics programs also have received rankings in the polls over the course of the past few seasons. A football team with a rich history of winning. Here's one you already know about, academics and NATIONALLY renowned programs. That one can't be argued.

And by the way, didn't App break their attendance record in football for the game versus lil 'ole Elon?

[Saint3333]

I'm not claiming ASU "floats" the SoCon. And agree that our basketball attendance is terrible.

However I would like to clarify a couple of items.

Football is the only revenue sport in the SoCon, let's be honest. The difference between all SoCon member home games vs. ASU compared to the other members would back up the claims that ASU does drive attendance upward.

ASU broke an attendance record for homecoming on a beautiful October Saturday in which Elon was the opponent, which has been broken twice since then. The current record was set on a Friday night vs. Wofford on Halloween. I doubt the fans current conference members are bringing is what is setting those records.

[Apphole]

You are talking about one sport......in every other sport, App nowhere NEAR floats the SoCon. Men's Bball - underachieving and 8th in the SoCon in attendance. Women's bball - good team, 5th in attendance. Baseball, pretty much a horrid program.....and by the way, Elon leads the series with App 59-13 xlolx

So that covers what are considered the "revenue" sports (aside from football). App floats the conference? Nope.

So what did Elon bring to the table? A regional power in baseball and multiple AT LARGE bids to the DI tournament....ie national exposure unlike what you implied. Various other athletics programs also have received rankings in the polls over the course of the past few seasons. Here's one you already know about, academics and NATIONALLY renowned programs. That one can't be argued.

And by the way, didn't App break their attendance record in football for the game versus lil 'ole Elon?

Home coming is Home coming so please don't flatter yourself about how many people watched us beat you....AGAIN And wasn't your attendance record broken by more App fans than Elon fans a couple of years ago? And yeah yeah our BBall attendance is laughable, but it's because we live in ACC-ville. Our team has done well and our facilities are by far the nicest in the conference. Coaching shenanigans have hampered us, but we're still always a front runner for the SoCon in basketball. I've never heard of baseball bringing in much revenue compared to Bball and FB, but I'm glad you lead SOME series. What's the App-Elon FB series look like? Oh yeah you've never beaten us. ;-) I don't know what to say about the renown of Elon academics since I don't live in New Jersey, where most Elon students are from, but App has the second highest admissions standards among NC public Universities. I think the SoCon will survive us leaving, but only because it has largely become a small private conference. I fear for the survival of other public SoCon programs that have no chance at moving (ie WCU).

[Apphole]

I'm not claiming ASU "floats" the SoCon. And agree that our basketball attendance is terrible.

However I would like to clarify a couple of items.

Football is the only revenue sport in the SoCon, let's be honest. The difference between all SoCon member home games vs. ASU compared to the other members would back up the claims that ASU does drive attendance upward.

ASU broke an attendance record for homecoming on a beautiful October Saturday in which Elon was the opponent, which has been broken twice since then. The current record was set on a Friday night vs. Wofford on Halloween. I doubt the fans current conference members are bringing is what is setting those records.

You're right about everything, but we did set the new record this past season on homecoming versus Elon. With the addition of new seats expect to see it shattered on Black Saturday. 34-35k+ Georgia Southern beat us last year and it could easily turn out to be the de facto conference championship. Don't forget it will be for our 7th in a row, beating the previous record of 6 set by Georgia Southern that we tied last year. Oh man I can't wait for that game.

[ElonAlum]

I love how App fans always are riding on a high horse. So you have a great football program and for the most part solid in the athletic department. The only reasons why yall want to leave is because of MONEY and your ego. Lets be honest here, its not because your superior in sports because your not. Its not because your upset that the demographics have changed so greatly because you would have really protested the invites for Elon and Samford which are both great additions to the conference.

The reason why you want to leave is because you think you can make it happen in the C-USA and bring in the money and big ego about FBS is so great and FCS sucks. If you get an invite I say go for it and see how much greener that grass really is.

I dont give two ****s if yall leave because the SOCON has been around for a VERY long time and has seen MANY schools come and go. Hell two of the best conferences in the country were formed from the SOCON and the SOCON is still here and going strong.

I just hate it when people make up BS excuses to cover themselves. Your ego and the desire for more money on the FBS level are the reasons. I dont fault you for that at all. Just be honest about it.

[tigonian02]

You're right about everything, but we did set the new record this past season on homecoming versus Elon. With the addition of new seats expect to see it shattered on Black Saturday. 34-35k+ Georgia Southern beat us last year and it could easily turn out to be the de facto conference championship. Don't forget it will be for our 7th in a row, beating the previous record of 6 set by Georgia Southern that we tied last year. Oh man I can't wait for that game.

Oh Man! I can't wait for that game either!!!

[Saint3333]

The SoCon will certainly still be around, I'm sure the replacement will be more than adaquate and you guys won't miss ASU at all, we bring nothing to the SoCon.

Saying the SoCon survived after the SEC and ACC teams left is accurate, but it currently isn't anywhere near the quality of competition is was back then (we're talking before all of us were living).

Sorry for being proactive and wanting to try to compete at a higher level than we currently do. I wonder why other FCS programs are doing the same thing right now? Why did Elon leave NAIA and Division 2? Get off your high horse.

The irony of an Elon fan talking about ego, you just can't make this crap up. Here we go Q1'11 match...

[panama]

I love how App fans always are riding on a high horse. So you have a great football program and for the most part solid in the athletic department. The only reasons why yall want to leave is because of MONEY and your ego. Lets be honest here, its not because your superior in sports because your not. Its not because your upset that the demographics have changed so greatly because you would have really protested the invites for Elon and Samford which are both great additions to the conference.

The reason why you want to leave is because you think you can make it happen in the C-USA and bring in the money and big ego about FBS is so great and FCS sucks. If you get an invite I say go for it and see how much greener that grass really is.

I dont give two ****s if yall leave because the SOCON has been around for a VERY long time and has seen MANY schools come and go. Hell two of the best conferences in the country were formed from the SOCON and the SOCON is still here and going strong.

I just hate it when people make up BS excuses to cover themselves. Your ego and the desire for more money on the FBS level are the reasons. I dont fault you for that at all. Just be honest about it.

Actually they are leaving because another larger school in their neighborhood is starting football with designs on FBS.xnodx

[Waco Kid]

I can understand that position to a point. As a avid follower of both Auburn and Furman, I can appreciate the more relaxed atmosphere and the occassional need to sit in the stands with 90k other folks (I generally prefer the former).

Perhaps I'm being obtuse, but I don't see how the atmosphere of the other schools should dictate the decision. Joe App-Fan isn't going to make the trip to Hattisburg or El Paso, so what does it matter their atmosphere?

You're right that schools in Texas would mean very little to our fans, but you can't ignore what ECU and Marshall would bring to the table. Furman has always been a great rival for ASU, but none of the other private schools bring out that excitement in our fans. And honestly thanks to Bobby Lamb the rivalry with Furman has taken a hit.

[Skjellyfetti]

I love how App fans always are riding on a high horse. So you have a great football program and for the most part solid in the athletic department. The only reasons why yall want to leave is because of MONEY and your ego. Lets be honest here, its not because your superior in sports because your not. Its not because your upset that the demographics have changed so greatly because you would have really protested the invites for Elon and Samford which are both great additions to the conference.

The reason why you want to leave is because you think you can make it happen in the C-USA and bring in the money and big ego about FBS is so great and FCS sucks. If you get an invite I say go for it and see how much greener that grass really is.

I dont give two ****s if yall leave because the SOCON has been around for a VERY long time and has seen MANY schools come and go. Hell two of the best conferences in the country were formed from the SOCON and the SOCON is still here and going strong.

I just hate it when people make up BS excuses to cover themselves. Your ego and the desire for more money on the FBS level are the reasons. I dont fault you for that at all. Just be honest about it.

App threads sure do bring out the best in our SoCon brethren.

You can say you don't give two ****s if we leave... but, your multi-paragraph rant certainly suggests otherwise. xlolxxrotatehx

[Waco Kid]

And that is exactly the point. Only 3 of the last 5 additions have been private; and all of those (short of App not voting for Elon) were unanimous. It seems like a scape goat reason for the push rather than a real reason.

After all, it's not like Elon, Furman and Samford aren't growing. And it makes me wonder what the reason would be if ETSU and VMI were still here while Samford and Elon weren't. The conference as a whole is better with them both and attendance for the conference s a whole (and at each school) has increased with them as a part. So, what's the real reason?

Besides, the conference isn't going to fall apart if App and GSU leave. It survived the creation of the SEC and ACC. It survived Tech, West Virginia and ECU leaving. It survived Marshall leaving. It'll survive this too when both GSU and App leave.

Well really it is 3 of the last 4 since UNCG was in before WoCo, but either way the only public schools added were basketball only. So to me they don't really count in this discussion (didn't think we needed to add them to begin with) and we are left with 3 private football schools in a row. If ASU were to leave I would put money on Presby being the next SoCon school added. If that happened GSU, UTC, and WCU would probably start looking for a new home.

[Apphole]

The SoCon will certainly still be around, I'm sure the replacement will be more than adaquate and you guys won't miss ASU at all, we bring nothing to the SoCon.

Saying the SoCon survived after the SEC and ACC teams left is accurate, but it currently isn't anywhere near the quality of competition is was back then (we're talking before all of us were living).

Sorry for being proactive and wanting to try to compete at a higher level than we currently do. I wonder why other FCS programs are doing the same thing right now? Why did Elon leave NAIA and Division 2? Get off your high horse.

The irony of an Elon fan talking about ego, you just can't make this crap up. Here we go Q1'11 match...

So funny. Scott Riddle's ego is bigger than our entire university's. Strange that he never managed to beat App State even when his defense was hitting QBs in the knees on coaches orders multiple years in a row.

[gophoenix]

Ok, you caught us, we're moving just because we dont like you.

And Samford is not growing. You obviously havent been to a game there, and they will likely get worse if they go through a coaching change.

App floats the Socon. It is used as leverage on the Sportsouth deal, which is why App gets 3-4 games a year, and it provides a surge in revenue to every other Socon member, ie Elon game. Conversely, App, must depend on only itself to bring fans in the door, with only a couple exceptions, ie GSU. App and GSU bring national exposure to the Socon, what benefit does elon bring?

In short, ASU benefits the Socon much more than the Socon benefits App. Thats all the reason you need to move on, plain and simple.

Lesson One, go read the post I am responding to if you want to comment with some substance.

The poster in question was referring to the Universities growing from a student, research and academic program standpoint. With that said, yes GlassOnion, Elon, Furman and Samford are growing at the same relative rate that App and GSU are.

App floats the SoCon for football, perhaps recently. But this is not always the case and wasn't the case before a few years ago. As for the SoCon, App doesn't float it for the other sports nor is App a point of argument for getting basketball games, revenue or anything else for any other sport. App provides a surge in revenue from ticket sales, for football only, to every school every other year (and again, this really has been only a recent problem).

App has brought national exposure to App. That Michigan win had nothing to do with the conference or anyone else here except App. App got the exposure from it. The national titles bring as much national exposure as when anyone else wins it (ie, little or none). And the only other time App has brought national exposure to any other team has been on the rare event that App gets an ESPN game (wofford comes to mind there), which again, is exposure for App and the opponent (of which two others have benefited so far). Outside of the football front, and that is really with devout fans, App brings little more than regional exposure, especially for Academics. So what national exposure do others bring? This isn't about Elon, so I'll answer the question. Go into any metro area on the east coast or midwest and I guarantee that you'll find more people that know of or have heard of The Citadel, Elon, Furman, Wofford, Samford and Davidson than they have any of the directional schools. There's as much national exposure from the names of the better Southern Private schools than there is for App in one sport (and really that's all it is, one sport) only.

If it is about moving up to make more money or better competition. We'll all applaud it. But the rest of us are getting a little tired of the "small private" schools being the scapegoat for every reason on why App wants to move up.

[Waco Kid]

I love how App fans always are riding on a high horse. So you have a great football program and for the most part solid in the athletic department. The only reasons why yall want to leave is because of MONEY and your ego. Lets be honest here, its not because your superior in sports because your not. Its not because your upset that the demographics have changed so greatly because you would have really protested the invites for Elon and Samford which are both great additions to the conference.

The reason why you want to leave is because you think you can make it happen in the C-USA and bring in the money and big ego about FBS is so great and FCS sucks. If you get an invite I say go for it and see how much greener that grass really is.

I dont give two ****s if yall leave because the SOCON has been around for a VERY long time and has seen MANY schools come and go. Hell two of the best conferences in the country were formed from the SOCON and the SOCON is still here and going strong.

I just hate it when people make up BS excuses to cover themselves. Your ego and the desire for more money on the FBS level are the reasons. I dont fault you for that at all. Just be honest about it.

How many sports has Elon won a conference championship in this year? At last count ASU has 6 this year alone and we are the favorite for 2 more. Congrats on having a good baseball program.

[gophoenix]

So funny. Scott Riddle's ego is bigger than our entire university's. Strange that he never managed to beat App State even when his defense was hitting QBs in the knees on coaches orders multiple years in a row.

See, and here we go. It's like arguing with a Democrat.

All you have to do is pull out the same tired old cards whenever anyone brings valid arguments. I love it.

let's go through the checklist
1) Something about Riddle
2) More App fans than Elon fans for a game
3) Hitting in the knees
4) How many championships have you won vs us
5) playoff record
6) national championships
7) homecoming for App equals App Fans, Homecoming for Elon means App Fans

Can you guys at least try something new?

[Apphole]

See, and here we go. It's like arguing with a Democrat.

All you have to do is pull out the same tired old cards whenever anyone brings valid arguments. I love it.

App may not float the SoCon, but Elon is certainly sinking it.

[Apphole]

Sounds like someone's a subconscious App fan. Welcome to the championship experience. We will soon be in a league with other, like-minded, football programs; ones that will bring something to the table.

[49RFootballNow]

Sounds like someone's a subconscious App fan. Welcome to the championship experience. We will soon be in a league with other, like-minded, football programs; ones that will bring something to the table.

I'm sure the CAA will be excited to have you.

[I-16Bandit]

Dear App. St.,

Please don't go. I'm asking nicely. Without you, the SoCon is just not the same.


Sincerely, J.H.

I feel the same way. I just hope that if App does move up and Georgia Southern doesn't go anywhere (I swear... xbangx) that App doesn't forget about us and we still have regular games.

[Skjellyfetti]

The SoCon is really on its head when Georgia Southern fans are responding with the most sane and classy posts.

If we leave, y'all will probably be the only game I miss playing every year.

[whoanellie]

See, and here we go. It's like arguing with a Democrat.

All you have to do is pull out the same tired old cards whenever anyone brings valid arguments. I love it.

let's go through the checklist
1) Something about Riddle
2) More App fans than Elon fans for a game
3) Hitting in the knees
4) How many championships have you won vs us
5) playoff record
6) national championships
7) homecoming for App equals App Fans, Homecoming for Elon means App Fans

Can you guys at least try something new?

let's round it off to a top 10.
8) some type of slander to a family member. Elon & App Grads have actually married and produced children.
9) Paul Hamilton is an App Grad
10) Law School did accept an App Grad

[PaladinFan]

Great. Another thread hi-jacked by an App State/Elon pissing match. Georgia Southern and Georgia State, why don't you start flinging insults and we'll make it a party?

It is a bit of hyperbole to suggest that App State "floats" the SoCon. I disagree too with this image of thousands of App fans just descending on some unsuspecting college campus every game day. I went back to the record books for Furman and saw that of the top 10 most attended games in Paladin Stadium, App State was involved in just one, 30 years ago (when Paladin Stadium was about three weeks old).

In more recent history at Furman, the 2009 App game drew less fans than Elon did and almost as few as Samford. In 2007 the App game drew 2,000 less fans than did Wofford. So, to suggest that App fans just storm the turnstiles, even at rival schools a two hour drive away, just really aren't that accurate. The conference will get on just fine without them.

[Saint3333]

Actually they are leaving because another larger school in their neighborhood is starting football with designs on FBS.xnodx

I would say that the teams considering the move to the FBS, upstarts included, may be one of the biggest drivers in the assessment. Programs like UMass, Nova, JMU, ODU, UNCC, etc. moving or flooding the marketing for football talent certainly are a catalyst in the process.

the point is changes in the FBS/FCS and the current window to move is IMO dictating (almost forcing) the decision.

[The Moody1]

Great. Another thread hi-jacked by an App State/Elon pissing match. Georgia Southern and Georgia State, why don't you start flinging insults and we'll make it a party?

It is a bit of hyperbole to suggest that App State "floats" the SoCon. I disagree too with this image of thousands of App fans just descending on some unsuspecting college campus every game day. I went back to the record books for Furman and saw that of the top 10 most attended games in Paladin Stadium, App State was involved in just one, 30 years ago (when Paladin Stadium was about three weeks old).

In more recent history at Furman, the 2009 App game drew less fans than Elon did and almost as few as Samford. In 2007 the App game drew 2,000 less fans than did Wofford. So, to suggest that App fans just storm the turnstiles, even at rival schools a two hour drive away, just really aren't that accurate. The conference will get on just fine without them.

Why does Furman charge more for App football games than other regular season games?

[Saint3333]

I disagree too with this image of thousands of App fans just descending on some unsuspecting college campus every game day. I went back to the record books for Furman and saw that of the top 10 most attended games in Paladin Stadium, App State was involved in just one, 30 years ago (when Paladin Stadium was about three weeks old).

In more recent history at Furman, the 2009 App game drew less fans than Elon did and almost as few as Samford. In 2007 the App game drew 2,000 less fans than did Wofford. So, to suggest that App fans just storm the turnstiles, even at rival schools a two hour drive away, just really aren't that accurate. The conference will get on just fine without them.

That's because Furman fans stop going to games after the 2005 season, hopefully you guys turn that around. I have no doubt the SoCon will be fine. I do however believe that the SoCon was "better" with Marshall even though I hated them. They made it "interesting" and the games created a lot of memories during my youth.

[Saint3333]

Why does Furman charge more for App football games than other regular season games?

They aren't the only ones.

[ElonPride]

Here we go Q1'11 match...

+1

xthumbsupx

[Skjellyfetti]

In more recent history at Furman, the 2009 App game drew less fans than Elon did and almost as few as Samford.

Did you attend the 2009 App-Furman game... the infamous "White Out".. where the Furman side was mostly empty. xlolx App traveled well, though. xnodx

[Saint3333]

+1

xthumbsupx

D@mn it, stop agreeing with me it is really troubling and you're ruining my rep as an Elon hater/bully to private places of higher learning/socialist/commie/all things terrible in the eyes of Elon fansxlolx.

[PaladinFan]

That's because Furman fans stop going to games after the 2005 season, hopefully you guys turn that around. I have no doubt the SoCon will be fine. I do however believe that the SoCon was "better" with Marshall even though I hated them. They made it "interesting" and the games created a lot of memories during my youth.

Try again. Furman averaged more fans in 2006 and 2007 than they did in 2005.

Sure, having big games with a lot of fans makes the games interesting. I'm not suggesting the don't. The reality is App draws well at home. They will probably find success at the next level. They do not travel as well as their fans think they do, nor do they "float" the conference. Those are my only points.

[Saint3333]

Fine you win Furman attendance has been terrible starting in 2008.

ASU has brought over 2,000 to Furman the last two times I've been down there. Whether that is traveling well I can't say. I will say that ASU brings more fans to opponents stadiums than they do to KBS in all cases except for maybe GSU.

[Apphole]

Try again. Furman averaged more fans in 2006 and 2007 than they did in 2005.

Sure, having big games with a lot of fans makes the games interesting. I'm not suggesting the don't. The reality is App draws well at home. They will probably find success at the next level. They do not travel as well as their fans think they do, nor do they "float" the conference. Those are my only points.

We travel better when we play better treams. Can a Richmond fan please describe our support in the playoffs two years ago? If your QB was healthy you might have seen more of the black and gold. And "float" may be an exageration but when ASU and GSU leave the SoCon, it just might drop into complete obscurity.

[Squealofthepig]

ASU averaged 29,440 during the regular season last year which would put ASU 4th.

I think jellyfetti's point on how low attendance figures are for the rest of the league is more an assault on the "oh, lets add 10,000 seats/tickets, charge an additional x and let that math work."

For anyone who has watched App State travel away from the Rock, you know they travel well. But if other teams aren't filling their own stadiums, can you realistically add 10,000 seats and guarantee they'll be filled? There are only 17,000 people in Boone - that 10,000 is not insignificant.

Thus, if the other conference teams aren't sending folks en masse to Kidd Brewer, the assumption of continual sellouts, during a transition period, seems specious. If anyone in FCS can do this, I would guess that ASU can, but think other funding and better, less-laughable math would help make the case.

[Lulu]

I feel the same way. I just hope that if App does move up and Georgia Southern doesn't go anywhere (I swear... xbangx) that App doesn't forget about us and we still have regular games.

Hey, we'll still go down to S'boro for some Low Country Boil with the Red Flag Gang. xhurrayx

[The Eagle's Cliff]

We travel better when we play better treams. Can a Richmond fan please describe our support in the playoffs two years ago? If your QB was healthy you might have seen more of the black and gold. And "float" may be an exageration but when ASU and GSU leave the SoCon, it just might drop into complete obscurity.

It'll definitely be a different SoCon, but it'll fine and competitive. I wonder if Mercer might have designs on the SoCon? Everyone knows it's a done deal for App and folks will see changes and construction on GSU's campus soon. I'm hoping we do enough to have this thread be about us in 2015/16. It'll take that long just to get things built. Hopefully Ken Niumatalolo will stay put at Navy and we can hang on to Monken for a while to get our speed back.

The other posters are correct about App and GSU only "mattering" in football, but when it comes to gameday atmosphere and football tradition, GSU and App are among the best in FCS and are better than quite a few alleged FBS schools.

[App-a-latch-un]

I attended the Richmond playoff game 2 years ago, ECU, and LSU, all were traveled extremely well. Tons of App fans at the Georgia Southern game this year. From what I heard Florida was too. I'm sure we'll max out our allotted tickets and then some for VA Tech this year.

I attended 9 games this year, which is typical, between I just didn't have the energy to travel and see the likes of WCU, Samford, or Nooga, my opinion has changed on Nooga though.

Agreed, Black Saturday, Appalachian/Georgia Southern this year will be epic!!!

[AppMan]

You are talking about one sport......in every other sport, App nowhere NEAR floats the SoCon.

The evidence ASU never wins anything but football is in taking home 30 (18 of the last 19) Commissioner's Cups since coming into the league in 1971. Only two current SoCon members have ever won the thing. Furman once in 80's and UTC for the 2004-05 year.


And by the way, didn't App break their attendance record in football for the game versus lil 'ole Elon?

Yea, all those App Fans wanted to watch that 15th in a row Elon butt whippin in person.

[gophoenix]

We travel better when we play better treams. Can a Richmond fan please describe our support in the playoffs two years ago? If your QB was healthy you might have seen more of the black and gold. And "float" may be an exageration but when ASU and GSU leave the SoCon, it just might drop into complete obscurity.

Marshall fans said that too. I know old Richmond and W&M fans that said that too, at least they say they did. Truth is, the SoCon won't. They'll be the same in basketball (well, may be better without GSU), baseball will still be the same and football still will be good. If a bunch of FCS teams leave, the void will be filled. The same will be said for the SoCon. It will be fine.

And I'll be first to say congrats to App. Any mid-major doing well is great. But stop using Furman, Wofford, Elon and Samford as the reason why. It is lame. You want to play up, we get it. Elon did it too. But we didn't blame every school in the SAC-8 for all this. Based on these comments, it sounds like it isn't about playing up, it is about maintaining some image you think other have about you.

[AppMan]

Great. Another thread hi-jacked by an App State/Elon pissing match. Georgia Southern and Georgia State, why don't you start flinging insults and we'll make it a party?

It is a bit of hyperbole to suggest that App State "floats" the SoCon. I disagree too with this image of thousands of App fans just descending on some unsuspecting college campus every game day. I went back to the record books for Furman and saw that of the top 10 most attended games in Paladin Stadium, App State was involved in just one, 30 years ago (when Paladin Stadium was about three weeks old).

In more recent history at Furman, the 2009 App game drew less fans than Elon did and almost as few as Samford. In 2007 the App game drew 2,000 less fans than did Wofford. So, to suggest that App fans just storm the turnstiles, even at rival schools a two hour drive away, just really aren't that accurate. The conference will get on just fine without them.

Of course more Furman fans show up for games vs Elon, Sammy and Wofford because they understand the Paladins have an outside shot at winning. No need to waste good money just to see your team get thumped again and again. :>) Good thing Ingle transfered in for a couple of years or you guys would have lost 10 in a row to the Boys from Boone. I don't want any lip outta you because I've been on the other side of the coin with you guys, so yea I enjoy rubbing it in! BTW, I was at that high attendance game with ASU down there "when Paladin Stadium was about three weeks old" and remember it like it was yesterday. It was RA Day and there were a million kids under the age of 10 roaming the stadium. IMO, that doesn't count! You couldn't move and going to the concession stand or bathroom, forget it! To make matters worse it was a rainy day and we got beat by 3 points after turning the ball over with the lead in the 4th quarter.

ASU will not leave just for the money, the school needs to go for the survival of its program. The football program has maxed out at this level and IF ASU doesn't move I believe the program will begin to trend backwards. As more and more programs come into FCS the pool for players gets smaller and the talent level diluted. In order to retain the ability to play at a very high level and attract big crowds to fill the stadium ASU needs to move on.

Sure the SoCon will be fine if / when ASU leaves. But anyone unwilling to admit ASU and Ga Southern have outgrown this league, as institutions, is just not being honest. This isn't about academics or history and tradition. The sheer size of these two schools in comparison to most of the conference (football only) is ridiculous. The enrollments of Citadel, Elon, Furman, Samford and Wofford do not equal ASU's and is almost 3,000 short of GSU's. Please do not bring up the ACC with a comparison of the big public institutions and the small private schools because the huge influx of TV, NCAA Tournament and BCS money makes that totally irrelevant.

[AppMan]

There are only 17,000 people in Boone - that 10,000 is not insignificant.

People unfamiliar with ASU do not understand how the number of people in Boone has no bearing on attendance at ASU games. At least 90% of the paying customers come from outside Watauga County. Boone is a destination point and tourist / vacation area. There are no high paying jobs to keep graduates there. Yes, a good number of people in town support the teams, but not in the numbers you would expect given ASU's attendance. Whenever we go to away games it is inevitable the first question asked is, how long did it take you to drive here from Boone? They just do not understand ASU's fan base is concentrated 1-2 hours away from Boone.

[Apphole]

People unfamiliar with ASU do not understand how the number of people in Boone has no bearing on attendance at ASU games. At least 90% of the paying customers come from outside Watauga County. Boone is a destination point and tourist / vacation area. There are no high paying jobs to keep graduates there. Yes, a good number of people in town support the teams, but not in the numbers you would expect given ASU's attendance. Whenever we go to away games it is inevitable the first question asked is, how long did it take you to drive here from Boone? They just do not understand ASU's fan base is concentrated 1-2 hours away from Boone.

Not to mention Boone's population is more like 30k. 17 is the number of undergrads.

[phoenix3]

Frankly, I would like to see ASU move on and Coastal take their place. Coastal's football isn't as good but it has potential & could realize that potential in the SoCon. Plus, although we would be losing ASU's football, we'd be gaining a real baseball team, and a better basketball program.

[ElonAlum]

See, and here we go. It's like arguing with a Democrat.

All you have to do is pull out the same tired old cards whenever anyone brings valid arguments. I love it.

let's go through the checklist
1) Something about Riddle
2) More App fans than Elon fans for a game
3) Hitting in the knees
4) How many championships have you won vs us
5) playoff record
6) national championships
7) homecoming for App equals App Fans, Homecoming for Elon means App Fans

Can you guys at least try something new?


Thank you sir! This isnt about App vs. Elon or GSU or etc.......its about App and the BS excuses for trying to leave. You want to claim that its all about the conference moving away from App but its not. Its about money and ego (IE more exposure).

Like I said before....if you get an invite than by all means I hope you go because App deserves it! Im just saying be honest about it!

And yes I care about the CONFERENCE and FACTS. That is why I post on this thread.

Also Waco your high as a kite if you think Presby would replace App! Id see Coastal, Gardner Webb, SC State or maybe Liberty before Presby.

[App-a-latch-un]

Thank you sir! This isnt about App vs. Elon or GSU or etc.......its about App and the BS excuses for trying to leave. You want to claim that its all about the conference moving away from App but its not. Its about money and ego (IE more exposure).

Like I said before....if you get an invite than by all means I hope you go because App deserves it! Im just saying be honest about it!

And yes I care about the CONFERENCE and FACTS. That is why I post on this thread.

Also Waco your high as a kite if you think Presby would replace App! Id see Coastal, Gardner Webb, SC State or maybe Liberty before Presby.

Yes more money is involved, but fans aren't thinking "Oh yea, look at all that money! Sweet financial success for the University!" We are thinking, "Oh hell yea, FOOTBALL!!!" It's a challenge and exciting, I yawn when I look at this years schedule. VA Tech, Nooga, and GSU are the only games I'm truly excited about. I love the playoffs, but a tougher conference schedule is more exciting to me game in and game out than waiting for postseason, where games are uncertain till the week before, and my ability to attend, as well as many others, are limited because of it.

[I-16Bandit]

Yes more money is involved, but fans aren't thinking "Oh yea, look at all that money! Sweet financial success for the University!" We are thinking, "Oh hell yea, FOOTBALL!!!" It's a challenge and exciting, I yawn when I look at this years schedule. VA Tech, Nooga, and GSU are the only games I'm truly excited about. I love the playoffs, but a tougher conference schedule is more exciting to me game in and game out than waiting for postseason, where games are uncertain till the week before, and my ability to attend, as well as many others, are limited because of it.

Do you think you guys would schedule GSU regularly if you leave the SoCon?

[App-a-latch-un]

Do you think you guys would schedule GSU regularly if you leave the SoCon?

Man I hope, would be a shame to lose that rivalry. I would hope to see them in the same FBS conference in the future.

[chattanoogamocs]

The evidence ASU never wins anything but football is in taking home 30 (18 of the last 19) Commissioner's Cups since coming into the league in 1971. Only two current SoCon members have ever won the thing. Furman once in 80's and UTC for the 2004-05 year.


I don't really have a dog in the hunt here, but I must interject that ASU's dominance of the Commissioner Cup is based more on quantity than quality.

Though please don't take that as a swipe at our program. I have said a number of times on the MMB that ASU has won those Cups fair and square because they have made the commitment to participate in all SoCon sanctioned men's sports, the only school to do so.

But let's be honest, outside of their track and cross country program (and that has a * by it too because there are only two true full track programs in the conference), football is the only truly dominant sport in the men's arsenal at ASU (and that's not a swipe either...every school, particularly mid-majors, have to pick a path and ASU's is football, and all evidence supports that it is/was a very good decision)

I will also compliment ASU by saying that while the program isn't nearly as dominant as the Commissioner Cup standings make them look, most of their men's programs are in the top half and consistently good, at least at the SoCon level.

[PaladinFan]

I don't really have a dog in the hunt here, but I must interject that ASU's dominance of the Commissioner Cup is based more on quantity than quality.

Though please don't take that as a swipe at our program. I have said a number of times on the MMB that ASU has won those Cups fair and square because they have made the commitment to participate in all SoCon sanctioned men's sports, the only school to do so.

But let's be honest, outside of their track and cross country program (and that has a * by it too because there are only two true full track programs in the conference), football is the only truly dominant sport in the men's arsenal at ASU (and that's not a swipe either...every school, particularly mid-majors, have to pick a path and ASU's is football, and all evidence supports that it is/was a very good decision)

I will also compliment ASU by saying that while the program isn't nearly as dominant as the Commissioner Cup standings make them look, most of their men's programs are in the top half and consistently good, at least at the SoCon level.

Eactly.

[ElonPride]

Frankly, I would like to see ASU move on and Coastal take their place. Coastal's football isn't as good but it has potential & could realize that potential in the SoCon. Plus, although we would be losing ASU's football, we'd be gaining a real baseball team, and a better basketball program.

+1

[AppMan]

I don't really have a dog in the hunt here, but I must interject that ASU's dominance of the Commissioner Cup is based more on quantity than quality.

Though please don't take that as a swipe at our program. I have said a number of times on the MMB that ASU has won those Cups fair and square because they have made the commitment to participate in all SoCon sanctioned men's sports, the only school to do so.

But let's be honest, outside of their track and cross country program (and that has a * by it too because there are only two true full track programs in the conference), football is the only truly dominant sport in the men's arsenal at ASU (and that's not a swipe either...every school, particularly mid-majors, have to pick a path and ASU's is football, and all evidence supports that it is/was a very good decision)

I will also compliment ASU by saying that while the program isn't nearly as dominant as the Commissioner Cup standings make them look, most of their men's programs are in the top half and consistently good, at least at the SoCon level.

I did not say ASU dominated every sport in the SoCon, but the key to dominating the overall SoCon sports program is that consistency in each sport. The Elon poster's point was ASU doesn't win many championships. Even though we have picked up 6 this school year. ASU has a lot of hurdles to overcome in the spring sports. It is mid March, the temps are in the mid 30's in Boone and snowed last week. With college schedules beginning so early in the year Boone weather hampers practice time. Baseball is starting their third year with the new turf field and indoor practice areas and we are beginning to recruit better players and the same can be said for softball. Golf and tennis are historically at the bottom of the conference. Easy to understand since none of the local courses open before mid April the golf team has to travel 45 miles (one way) to practice. Until we build an indoor complex tennis will never be very good. Our track & CC programs have very good for years, but you can run in the cold. IMO, the Boone climate should dictate what sports we field and some should be dropped. Some will say I want to sacrifice the Olympic Sports for the sake of football, but it is more about having programs that are appropriate for the area. I simply think sending poorly prepared athletes into action isdoing then a huge disservice.

[ASUMountaineer]

xconfusedx Didn't I include Western as one of the schools growing out of the SoCon mold?

I'm not at all saying anything negative about the SoCon. I just think App St and GSU are headed in a different direction. Chattanooga isn't far behind and Western may grow beyond it as well. Furman, Wofford, Samford, Davidson, The Citadel, and College of Charleston are different kinds of schools than the public Directional U's. The reason we're in the SoCon is because there's no Eastern version of the WAC and Mountain West.

For us, sports is "front porch" of the University. Reclassifying to FBS will expand our market reach and enhance our status with the general (ignorant) public. I haven't researched the endowment numbers, but I'd bet Furman and others don't have any worries in that department.

While I understand your point, I believe CofC is a public school.

[Saint3333]

+1

EP I am shocked that you agree that CCU would be an adequate replacement. You guys must not read the news, the NCAA will likely punish them for what they've done this year.

As for baseball I believe ASU finished 5th in the SoCon last year and in the top 60 in RPI, not too bad. ASU football for CCU baseball, there isn't a conference in the nation that would make that trade. You guys would trade the next 10 baseball games vs. ASU for a win in football, be honest with yourselves.

[AppMan]

+1

Glad you guys have baseball to brag about. Since joining the SoCon your school has won just two conference titles in other sports, men's tennis in 2009 and men's soccer in 2008. ZERO championships on the women's side. You guys sure brought a lot to this conference!

[Waco Kid]

+1

Boy you Elon guys love to cling to this baseball thing, don't you? Maybe you should stop wasting your time with football and focus entirely on baseball. Do you really want Coastal to come in and spank your one good team every year?

Back to the topic at hand, I think it is clear that ASU and GSU have very different goals as institutions and athletic departments. If FBS isn't an option at this time the CAA which is most likely going to lose the remaining New England schools would be a better for fit for both. The SoCon and CAA should honestly look at switching ASU/GSU for Richmond/W&M. Also try to get UNCC and YSU to join this new more public CAA, and it appears as if VCU is going to add football so that would give the league 10 football teams.

The CAA would be mainly mid sized public schools while the SoCon would be small private with a few small public schools. UNCG is larger but still fits in with the SoCon. Academic would be good in booth with the SoCon having the edge which I'm sure they would feel good about. It would be like the Ivy League South they have always wanted.

SoCon: Furman, El Cid, Elon, WoCo, Sammy, Rich, W&M, WCU, UTC, CofC, Dav, UNCG

CAA: Del, JMU, ODU, Towson, GA St, VCU, GSU, ASU, UNCC, YSU, GM, UNCW

Hofstra, NE, and Drexel could join the NEC along with NH and Maine.

[ElonPride]

Glad you guys have baseball to brag about. Since joining the SoCon your school has won just two conference titles in other sports, men's tennis in 2009 and men's soccer in 2008. ZERO championships on the women's side. You guys sure brought a lot to this conference!

When was the last time an App team received an at large bid to the national championship tournament at the HIGHEST level of D-I?

Well, Elon's could be working on ANOTHER this year seeing if they don't win the regular season or the conference tourney! xnodx

And are you counting regular season champs or tourney champs? If both, you need to go back and check your facts!

And Saint, yes I am aware of the trouble CCU is in. I still would love to have them in the conference if they can clean up their act......their baseball team won 55 games last year!!!

[The Eagle's Cliff]

While I understand your point, I believe CofC is a public school.

Yeah, I looked that up yesterday in an unrelated conversation and realized my mistake. I guess it just "seems" like a private school for some reason

[Apphole]

When was the last time an App team received an at large bid to the national championship tournament at the HIGHEST level of D-I?

Well, Elon's could be working on ANOTHER this year seeing if they don't win the regular season or the conference tourney! xnodx

And are you counting regular season champs or tourney champs? If both, you need to go back and check your facts!

And Saint, yes I am aware of the trouble CCU is in. I still would love to have them in the conference if they can clean up their act......their baseball team won 55 games last year!!!

I think more people care about NCAA women’s basketball than baseball. (ours play USC in the NIT tonight) I mean, if it's not the MLB no one watches and not even that many people watch the MLB any more. That's good you have one, not-so-interesting thing to keep you somewhat relevant in a small conference that's about to be weakened by the departure of it's flag ship school.

[PaladinFan]

I think more people care about NCAA women’s basketball than baseball. (ours play USC in the NIT tonight) I mean, if it's not the MLB no one watches and not even that many people watch the MLB any more. That's good you have one, not-so-interesting thing to keep you somewhat relevant in a small conference that's about to be weakened by the departure of it's flag ship school.

Eh, I think that's an overstatement. Plenty of folks watch college baseball. The World Series is quite an event.

In truth, if the SoCon added one more good baseball team, you could make a case for it being one of the premier "small conferences" in the country. It may well already be there. Furman isn't even good this season and they've already beaten UGA and #4 USC.

[ElonPride]

I think more people care about NCAA women’s basketball than baseball. (ours play USC in the NIT tonight) I mean, if it's not the MLB no one watches and not even that many people watch the MLB any more. That's good you have one, not-so-interesting thing to keep you somewhat relevant in a small conference that's about to be weakened by the departure of it's flag ship school.

Have to agree with Paladin fan here Apphole. Look at the attendance numbers for the CWS. Each game out draws the FCS championship game. The CWS is quite the event, and the SoCon has put two teams in that field before (El Cid and GSU). The SoCon pretty much has become the premier mid major conference.

[ASUMountaineer]

Yeah, I looked that up yesterday in an unrelated conversation and realized my mistake. I guess it just "seems" like a private school for some reason

It definitely seems like a private.

[Saint3333]

And Saint, yes I am aware of the trouble CCU is in. I still would love to have them in the conference if they can clean up their act......their baseball team won 55 games last year!!!

Good luck with that, it just isn't there basketball program. Their APR numbers are terrible.

I still stand by the statement that no conference trades football programs for baseball programs.

As for baseball conferences the SoCon is solid, but not the best mid-major (if there is such a thing in baseball), CUSA, Big West, and Sun Belt typically finish higher than the SoCon:

Division I Overall
Rank Rating W L W L Conference

1 0.588 129 67 129 67 ACC
2 0.585 154 45 154 45 SEC
3 0.567 91 53 91 53 C-USA
4 0.556 88 56 88 56 Pac 10
5 0.554 111 53 113 53 Big 12
6 0.544 99 78 99 78 Atlantic Sun
7 0.537 91 68 93 68 Sun Belt
8 0.521 117 87 117 87 Southland
9 0.520 90 69 90 69 Big South
10 0.518 107 74 107 74 Southern
11 0.509 87 83 88 84 Big East
12 0.509 54 65 55 65 WCC
13 0.507 69 64 69 64 Big Ten
14 0.504 57 49 57 49 WAC
15 0.498 66 51 67 51 MVC
16 0.498 51 60 51 60 Mountain West

[ASUMountaineer]

Have to agree with Paladin fan here Apphole. Look at the attendance numbers for the CWS. Each game out draws the FCS championship game. The CWS is quite the event, and the SoCon has put two teams in that field before (El Cid and GSU). The SoCon pretty much has become the premier mid major conference.

That's a valid reason for ASU's flirtation with FBS. This whole Elon vs. ASU pissing match has been hilarious to read. I'll level with you, ASU has several reasons to consider a move to FBS with the SoCon and it's private members being a small part of the equation--but, a part nevertheless. The biggest part is the direction of the school long-term, and the benefits (if any) such a move could bring. Do that seem like a fair statement?

[SoCon48]

In 1975 the SoCon was made up of Citadel, Davidson, Furman, Richmond, VMI, W&M and two the interlopers ASU and ECU. Don't even begin to tell me the private schools today wouldn't love to have Richmond (if only for football) and W&M back in the fold. A league with Citadel, Davidson (no fb), Elon, Furman, Richmond (no bb), Samford, VMI, W&M, and Wofford would be taylor made for you guys. Might as well add Gardner Webb for 9 football and 9 basketball schools and make it the ultimate private / small high academic state university conference.

William And Mary is public.

[ElonPride]

Good luck with that, it just isn't there basketball program. Their APR numbers are terrible.

I still stand by the statement that no conference trades football programs for baseball programs.

As for baseball conferences the SoCon is solid, but not the best mid-major (if there is such a thing in baseball), CUSA, Big West, and Sun Belt typically finish higher than the SoCon:

Division I Overall
Rank Rating W L W L Conference

1 0.588 129 67 129 67 ACC
2 0.585 154 45 154 45 SEC
3 0.567 91 53 91 53 C-USA
4 0.556 88 56 88 56 Pac 10
5 0.554 111 53 113 53 Big 12
6 0.544 99 78 99 78 Atlantic Sun
7 0.537 91 68 93 68 Sun Belt
8 0.521 117 87 117 87 Southland
9 0.520 90 69 90 69 Big South
10 0.518 107 74 107 74 Southern
11 0.509 87 83 88 84 Big East
12 0.509 54 65 55 65 WCC
13 0.507 69 64 69 64 Big Ten
14 0.504 57 49 57 49 WAC
15 0.498 66 51 67 51 MVC
16 0.498 51 60 51 60 Mountain West

That is the current RPI, but the conferences in baseball you mentioned probably would be considered majors...... The SoCon in recent years generally finishes about 8 or 9 in the RPI. Currently we are 10 out of the 32 conferences.

[SoCon48]

I don't really have a dog in the hunt here, but I must interject that ASU's dominance of the Commissioner Cup is based more on quantity than quality.Though please don't take that as a swipe at our program. I have said a number of times on the MMB that ASU has won those Cups fair and square because they have made the commitment to participate in all SoCon sanctioned men's sports, the only school to do so.

But let's be honest, outside of their track and cross country program (and that has a * by it too because there are only two true full track programs in the conference), football is the only truly dominant sport in the men's arsenal at ASU (and that's not a swipe either...every school, particularly mid-majors, have to pick a path and ASU's is football, and all evidence supports that it is/was a very good decision)

I will also compliment ASU by saying that while the program isn't nearly as dominant as the Commissioner Cup standings make them look, most of their men's programs are in the top half and consistently good, at least at the SoCon level.

It's not only about quantity. If you look at the standings, most years, ASU still fares better if you only compare sports by school only counting the sports that both teams field.

[Saint3333]

EP I do realize that is the current RPI, I looked at the previous three years as well. Baseball is a distant third is college athetics to football and basketball, let's move on past baseball, especially on a football board. If you find a NCAA baseball board that may be better suited for Elon fans.

[gophoenix]

Boy you Elon guys love to cling to this baseball thing, don't you? Maybe you should stop wasting your time with football and focus entirely on baseball. Do you really want Coastal to come in and spank your one good team every year?

I love how App fans are just free to smack all the want.

The truth is, Elon fans cling to baseball like App fans cling to football. It is a popular sport at Elon and we've traditionally been good at it. It's the flagship program just like football is at App.

You guys ask what we brought to the table for the conference. We brought better women's teams than you had with VMI and a better men's program as well; and that was out of the box without us getting better. And we brought another good baseball team to the table. So, with that, considering that you win commissioners cups, but really outside of this year don't win that many championships; what are you bringing to an FBS conference outside of football other than expensive travel for all the other sports teams to try and get to Boone???

[gophoenix]

Good luck with that, it just isn't there basketball program. Their APR numbers are terrible.

I still stand by the statement that no conference trades football programs for baseball programs.

As for baseball conferences the SoCon is solid, but not the best mid-major (if there is such a thing in baseball), CUSA, Big West, and Sun Belt typically finish higher than the SoCon:

Division I Overall
Rank Rating W L W L Conference

1 0.588 129 67 129 67 ACC
2 0.585 154 45 154 45 SEC
3 0.567 91 53 91 53 C-USA
4 0.556 88 56 88 56 Pac 10
5 0.554 111 53 113 53 Big 12
6 0.544 99 78 99 78 Atlantic Sun
7 0.537 91 68 93 68 Sun Belt
8 0.521 117 87 117 87 Southland
9 0.520 90 69 90 69 Big South
10 0.518 107 74 107 74 Southern
11 0.509 87 83 88 84 Big East
12 0.509 54 65 55 65 WCC
13 0.507 69 64 69 64 Big Ten
14 0.504 57 49 57 49 WAC
15 0.498 66 51 67 51 MVC
16 0.498 51 60 51 60 Mountain West

So you're basing that off this year's numbers?

The SoCon has been in the top 9, at the final part of the year, for the last 7 years and has been receiving multiple bids for how long? And three last year? The Southland, Big South, West Coast and Atlantic Sun are the only ones competing with us as CUSA nd the Sun Belt are considered majors, not mid-majors in the world of baseball.

Again, knock it however you want, but the only reason you're doing it is because App isn't good at it even in their best years.

[PaladinFan]

That's a valid reason for ASU's flirtation with FBS. This whole Elon vs. ASU pissing match has been hilarious to read. I'll level with you, ASU has several reasons to consider a move to FBS with the SoCon and it's private members being a small part of the equation--but, a part nevertheless. The biggest part is the direction of the school long-term, and the benefits (if any) such a move could bring. Do that seem like a fair statement?

That is the first realistic comment made during this entire debate.

It seems beyond ridiculous to suggest that App is moving to the FBS because it doesn't like playing a private school and their game-day atmosphere. App is looking into the move because it might bring long term benefits. No, ASU is not world beaters in every sport, but they have a pretty good unit on the big college money maker--football.

[PaladinFan]

I love how App fans are just free to smack all the want.

The truth is, Elon fans cling to baseball like App fans cling to football. It is a popular sport at Elon and we've traditionally been good at it. It's the flagship program just like football is at App.

You guys ask what we brought to the table for the conference. We brought better women's teams than you had with VMI and a better men's program as well; and that was out of the box without us getting better. And we brought another good baseball team to the table. So, with that, considering that you win commissioners cups, but really outside of this year don't win that many championships; what are you bringing to an FBS conference outside of football other than expensive travel for all the other sports teams to try and get to Boone???

That happens. You can make an argument that the most successful SoCon program in terms of production of top-level talent is Furman's men's soccer team. Men's soccer outdraws every other sport at Furman but football. Still, it's never going to be taken seriously on the national stage.

Baseball is a legitimate revenue maker for a lot of programs around the country. Where it is big, it is huge. It's one of the few sports SoCon schools can go head to head with the "big boys" and win just as often as not. Can't make that same claim in basketball or football.

So, I agree with what you're saying, but I see where the argument doesn't really light the fire under those folks who are "football only" type fans.

[49RFootballNow]

That is the first realistic comment made during this entire debate.

It seems beyond ridiculous to suggest that App is moving to the FBS because it doesn't like playing a private school and their game-day atmosphere. App is looking into the move because it might bring long term benefits. No, ASU is not world beaters in every sport, but they have a pretty good unit on the big college money maker--football.


Two major issues are driving this study. <insert a whole bunch of pointless fluff here, but make it sound reasonable and palatable to our fans>, and UNCC’s addition of football.


Looks like App doesn't like their future in-state FCS recruiting prospects to me. xthumbsupx

[Saint3333]

So, with that, considering that you win commissioners cups, but really outside of this year don't win that many championships; what are you bringing to an FBS conference outside of football other than expensive travel for all the other sports teams to try and get to Boone???

What has ASU done in the SoCon? Championships? You'd think with the internet people would do a little research.

ASU has won 7 or 8 of the last indoor AND outdoor, men's AND women's SoCon titles in the last ten years.

Men's cross country - 7 of last 10, women's 3 of last 5.

That is 40 SoCon Championships in 6 of the 18 sports the SoCon sponsors over the last 10 years.

The men won the North Div. in basketball 5 times from 2000-2010.

Volleyball is tied with CofC for the most regular season titles with 8, finished 2nd 7 times. First or 2nd 15 of 25 years.

Women's basketball is certainly on the upside, winning the CBI postseason tournament last year and winning the regular season this year. 7 championships in their history.

Tennis and Golf are bad, no doubt about it. Soccer is in the middle tier. Same with baseball under Pollard.

Take any SoCon team and add up the Commish Cup points from only the sports both programs participate in and ASU still wins 9 out of 10 years.

But at the end of the day, these accomplishments aren't near as important as the as the success in football from a conference affilation standpoint. I'm not saying that is right or wrong, but football drives those decisions in college athletics right now.

[Skjellyfetti]

What has ASU done in the SoCon? Championships? You'd think with the internet people would do a little research.

ASU has won 7 or 8 of the last indoor AND outdoor, men's AND women's SoCon titles in the last ten years.

Men's cross country - 7 of last 10, women's 3 of last 5.

That is 40 SoCon Championships in 6 of the 18 sports the SoCon sponsors over the last 10 years.

The men won the North Div. in basketball 5 times from 2000-2010.

Volleyball is tied with CofC for the most regular season titles with 8, finished 2nd 7 times. First or 2nd 15 of 25 years.

Women's basketball is certainly on the upside, winning the CBI postseason tournament last year and winning the regular season this year. 7 championships in their history.

Tennis and Golf are bad, no doubt about it. Soccer is in the middle tier. Same with baseball under Pollard.

Take any SoCon team and add up the Commish Cup points from only the sports both programs participate in and ASU still wins 9 out of 10 years.

But at the end of the day, these accomplishments aren't near as important as the as the success in football from a conference affilation standpoint. I'm not saying that is right or wrong, but football drives those decisions in college athletics right now.

http://www.tweak3d.net/forums/imagehosting/34514b5b4b8f83919.gif

[ElonPride]

[QUOTE=Saint3333;1614371
Take any SoCon team and add up the Commish Cup points from only the sports both programs participate in and ASU still wins 9 out of 10 years.

[/QUOTE]

Don't you guys also field more teams than most schools in the SoCon......maybe that adds to the validity that you need to go?

Do you think there are any title XI frustrations that will accompany the extra football schollies?

No smack, just a couple questions.

And BTW, I cling to Elon baseball simply because I am a baseball fan. And yes, Many Elon fans do look to this time of year because the baseball team gets quite a bit of national notoriety at the highest level of D-1. As many regionals as this program has seen in the short time Elon has been DI is pretty amazing you have to admit. Not only that, the majority of these have been by at large bid. Quite a bit of national respect.....

[chattanoogamocs]

What has ASU done in the SoCon? Championships? You'd think with the internet people would do a little research.

ASU has won 7 or 8 of the last indoor AND outdoor, men's AND women's SoCon titles in the last ten years.

Take any SoCon team and add up the Commish Cup points from only the sports both programs participate in and ASU still wins 9 out of 10 years.


As I said in my earlier post in this topic, while I give ASU a lot of credit (especially as a former Mocs runner) for funding a full track team, but it is hard to crow too much about winning all those championships when there are almost no full track programs in the SoCon. The only true men's programs are ASU and WCU and and the only full women's programs are ASU, WCU and GSU. That is the real difference in so many of ASU's Commissioner Cup and Germann Cups (they have 30-36 points, men's and women's, right out of the gate, due to running sports). Like I said, I ran for the Mocs and I have always been very envious of ASU's support of track and field.

Also, I was waiting for someone from ASU to roll out the, "even if you subtract sports argument" (or averaging instead of just adding the gross sum) ASU would still win...no, ASU wouldn't have won 9 out of the last 10 (I know, a couple of years ago when someone made the same comment I ran the numbers)...more like 5 or 6 out of 10. Chattanooga would have won at least 3 (if done by average per sport) in the last decade.

Like I said, I give full respect to the ASU program. And as I said in this thread, they put up the money to compete in all-sports, they have won the Commissioner Cups fair and square. I am merely posting on this topic as someone in the middle, trying to keep both sides honest with the facts. :)

[AppMan]

When was the last time an App team received an at large bid to the national championship tournament at the HIGHEST level of D-I?

Well, Elon's could be working on ANOTHER this year seeing if they don't win the regular season or the conference tourney! xnodx

And are you counting regular season champs or tourney champs? If both, you need to go back and check your facts!

And Saint, yes I am aware of the trouble CCU is in. I still would love to have them in the conference if they can clean up their act......their baseball team won 55 games last year!!!

OK, so your baseball program is better than ASU's. You enjoy the advantages of better weather and fly ball hitters who run up big averages in a high school sized ball park. Last season were 18-5 against the bottom 6 teams but only 2-9 against the top three. Check back in April 24 after you have played C of C and GSU, then on May 8 after your trip to Riley Park (The Citadel).

[AppMan]

What has ASU done in the SoCon? Championships? You'd think with the internet people would do a little research.

ASU has won 7 or 8 of the last indoor AND outdoor, men's AND women's SoCon titles in the last ten years.

Men's cross country - 7 of last 10, women's 3 of last 5.

That is 40 SoCon Championships in 6 of the 18 sports the SoCon sponsors over the last 10 years.

The men won the North Div. in basketball 5 times from 2000-2010.

Volleyball is tied with CofC for the most regular season titles with 8, finished 2nd 7 times. First or 2nd 15 of 25 years.

Women's basketball is certainly on the upside, winning the CBI postseason tournament last year and winning the regular season this year. 7 championships in their history.

Tennis and Golf are bad, no doubt about it. Soccer is in the middle tier. Same with baseball under Pollard.

Take any SoCon team and add up the Commish Cup points from only the sports both programs participate in and ASU still wins 9 out of 10 years.

But at the end of the day, these accomplishments aren't near as important as the as the success in football from a conference affilation standpoint. I'm not saying that is right or wrong, but football drives those decisions in college athletics right now.

Yea, I don't think the AD's of whatever conference looks at ASU focusing on how much our track and volleyball programs bring to the table.

[ElonPride]

OK, so your baseball program is better than ASU's. You enjoy the advantages of better weather and fly ball hitters who run up big averages in a high school sized ball park. Last season were 18-5 against the bottom 6 teams but only 2-9 against the top three. Check back in April 24 after you have played C of C and GSU, then on May 8 after your trip to Riley Park (The Citadel).

Teams visiting Latham Park have the same advantage of the home team! Please...pfff..don't even try that one.

Even on the road Elon beats bigger schools, ranked schools from the major conferences on a consistent basis....6-1 against the ACC last year in what some Elon fans thought was a down year. App just beat their first ranked opponent in literally 29 years earlier this season.

crApp, Elon did that in their first full FCS(I-AA) season of football in '99 and everyone still thinks our program stinks.

Think about this, if the average baseball team plays 60 games a year, that would mean your baseball team had a drought of 1,740 games before beating a ranked team. Simply WOW!

Your climate comment.....not valid. Your Ole Mountain Jug rival WCU has fielded some pretty great teams.

Again....pffff...

[Saint3333]

Also, I was waiting for someone from ASU to roll out the, "even if you subtract sports argument" (or averaging instead of just adding the gross sum) ASU would still win...no, ASU wouldn't have won 9 out of the last 10 (I know, a couple of years ago when someone made the same comment I ran the numbers)...more like 5 or 6 out of 10. Chattanooga would have won at least 3 (if done by average per sport) in the last decade.


Who would have won last year? I ran the numbers for 2009 during a similar argument last year and ASU would have won.

[Horseshoe App]

Teams visiting Latham Park have the same advantage of the home team! Please...pfff..don't even try that one.

Even on the road Elon beats bigger schools, ranked schools from the major conferences on a consistent basis....6-1 against the ACC last year in what some Elon fans thought was a down year. App just beat their first ranked opponent in literally 29 years earlier this season.

crApp, Elon did that in their first full FCS(I-AA) season of football in '99 and everyone still thinks our program stinks.

Think about this, if the average baseball team plays 60 games a year, that would mean your baseball team had a drought of 1,740 games before beating a ranked team. Simply WOW!

Your climate comment.....not valid. Your Ole Mountain Jug rival WCU has fielded some pretty great teams.

Again....pffff...
Okay, Elon and App love having pissing matches about everything. But really, are you seriously comparing college baseball in recognition to college football. I realize Elon has a much better baseball team and tradition than App does. Yes, if you get lucky and make it to College World Series, that is quite an event. But, you cannot tell me that Elon's baseball is as well known as Appalachian football. It is not even close. Almost every college in the nation would rather be good in football rather than baseball. Miami and FSU are really good in baseball, but they live off of football.
Your comparison between college baseball and football is just not valid

[Saint3333]

Don't you guys also field more teams than most schools in the SoCon......maybe that adds to the validity that you need to go?

Do you think there are any title XI frustrations that will accompany the extra football schollies?

No smack, just a couple questions.

Hey no problem about the smack, I'm sure you know that by now.

I think you mean title IX, but I got your question. My fear is that a couple of men's sports may be eliminated. The program is wrestling would be the easiest as no potential new conference sponsors that sport, but ASU's wrestling program has quite a bit of history. The biggest under performing programs are tennis and golf (they actually won a tournament yesterday though).

I don't think women's sports would be added, but I do think the ones we have would be fully funded with a move. I'm not sure which women's sports are currently fully funded other than basketball.

I think that is one of the reasons why JMU dropped sports a couple years ago.

[ASUMountaineer]

Teams visiting Latham Park have the same advantage of the home team! Please...pfff..don't even try that one.

Even on the road Elon beats bigger schools, ranked schools from the major conferences on a consistent basis....6-1 against the ACC last year in what some Elon fans thought was a down year. App just beat their first ranked opponent in literally 29 years earlier this season.

crApp, Elon did that in their first full FCS(I-AA) season of football in '99 and everyone still thinks our program stinks.

Think about this, if the average baseball team plays 60 games a year, that would mean your baseball team had a drought of 1,740 games before beating a ranked team. Simply WOW!

Your climate comment.....not valid. Your Ole Mountain Jug rival WCU has fielded some pretty great teams.

Again....pffff...

Hopefully, you won't have to worry about ASU soon enough. As to baseball, our team has not been good, heck decent, for a long time. It's unfortunate, but it happens at a lot of schools. It's hard for schools to perform at a high level across the big sports (football, basketball, and baseball). In Boone, there's no question that ASU has put most of it's eggs in the football basket--and that was probably the right move.

Anyways, I do enjoy reading the pissing match you and some of my fellow Mountaineer brethren are carrying on. Are you all sick of it yet? Who cares? Elon has no bearing on ASU's decision to go FBS or not.

[ASUMountaineer]

That is the first realistic comment made during this entire debate.

It seems beyond ridiculous to suggest that App is moving to the FBS because it doesn't like playing a private school and their game-day atmosphere. App is looking into the move because it might bring long term benefits. No, ASU is not world beaters in every sport, but they have a pretty good unit on the big college money maker--football.

I try. xlolx

While this decision will be made with the whole university in mind, there's no doubt that football is driving the decision. If we were as successful in basketball as football, a move would probably not be considered.

[ElonPride]

Hey no problem about the smack, I'm sure you know that by now.

I think you mean title IX, but I got your question. My fear is that a couple of men's sports may be eliminated. The program is wrestling would be the easiest as no potential new conference sponsors that sport, but ASU's wrestling program has quite a bit of history. The biggest under performing programs are tennis and golf (they actually won a tournament yesterday though).

I don't think women's sports would be added, but I do think the ones we have would be fully funded with a move. I'm not sure which women's sports are currently fully funded other than basketball.

I think that is one of the reasons why JMU dropped sports a couple years ago.

That makes sense. Do you think any other of App's sports may be at risk?

[The Eagle's Cliff]

I really believe some schools are missing the point about moving to FBS. This topic has been a hot issue at GSU and App internally for years now. The whole issue is about money and prestige.

FCS is a combination of HBCU's, Ivy's, Privates, State U's from small population states, and former-teacher-college "Directional" U's.

Every school above except the Directional U's have an established historical "identity". Growth of Directional U's from Teacher's Colleges to Comprehensive Universities is directly related to population overflow at the Major State U's. Most of that growth has occurred in the last 25-30 years and the median age of our living alumni has been decreasing, but may be leveling off. We don't have large foundations and endowments to help us grow academically, so we must rely on sports (football and/or basketball) to attract potential donors.

Moving to FBS potentially expands a school's market and enhances prestige - something that will definitely NOT happen staying FCS. App should definitely "strike while the iron is hot" and they can take that from a school that passed up the opportunity in the early 90's and early 2000's and lived to regret it.

[Saint3333]

That makes sense. Do you think any other of App's sports may be at risk?

No inside knowledge on this subject, but logic would suggest wrestling, golf, and tennis would be the first to go likely in that order. Women's field hockey would potentially be replaced by another women's program depending on the conference.

We're talking about this like it has already happened, but there currently is no where to go. What percentage are outsiders giving ASU on the move?

[jmufan999]

What percentage are outsiders giving ASU on the move?

i skipped right to the last page, so i'm assuming we're still talking about ASU moving to FBS... if not, my apologies.

but if we're talking App State to FBS, it's definitely a question of "when", not "if". if we're saying they make an announcement that they WILL move to SOME FBS conference in the next 5 years... 75%. just a guess. sometimes a school surprises me by staying/not staying, otherwise i would have made the # higher. we just have to remember that football is a BUSINESS, not just trying to win (which is all a lot of us fans think sometimes). if they don't think they can make enough money to make it worthwhile, it won't happen.

[DFW HOYA]

FCS is a combination of HBCU's, Ivy's, Privates, State U's from small population states, and former-teacher-college "Directional" U's.
Every school above except the Directional U's have an established historical "identity".

That's a generalization. Which of these schools, among others, have an established historical identity?

Bryant
Campbell
Charleston Southern
Jacksonville
Liberty
Marist
Monmouth
Robert Morris
Sacred Heart
Stony Brook
Towson

[ncguitarplyr]

The chattanooga times JUST posted this article:
http://timesfreepress.com/news/2011/mar/17/socon-waiting-app-states-decision/

There is a lot of info but here are the big things:

"Despite a lot of rumors, Cobb said Appalachian State is not definitely leaving the SoCon for Conference USA or any other league when the NCAA’s moratorium on changing divisions expires in August. “There are no offers on the table,” Cobb said."

Ouch, and:

"Cobb said he expects “some type of recommendation” to come out of the feasibility study committee’s March meeting later this month, and that recommendation will go to Chancellor Kenneth Peacock, who will make his recommendation to the ASU Board of Trustees in June."

[ElonPride]

No inside knowledge on this subject, but logic would suggest wrestling, golf, and tennis would be the first to go likely in that order. Women's field hockey would potentially be replaced by another women's program depending on the conference.

We're talking about this like it has already happened, but there currently is no where to go. What percentage are outsiders giving ASU on the move?

Pretty much agree with the JMU fan's comment.....it's just a question of when. I would say within the next 2-3 years.

[Saint3333]

To move in two years they would have to announce this summer they were making a move.

I still think it has to be the right invitation. The Yosef Club tour in April should be interesting.

[glsjunior]

If App St. leaves then there will be tremendous pressure by the media in Atlanta for Ga St. to move to the SOCON. I think that we eventually want to be FBS but I believe the powers that be in the Ga Legislature (Tech and UGA grads) will want to keep us FCS as long as possible.

[91Niner]

A invitation only meeting on the progress of ASU’s FBS Study was held today at Rock Barn Country Club. ASU AD Charlie Cobb, Head of ASU Athletic Development Rick Beasley and a member of the consultant group made the presentation. Here are a few of the more interesting tidbits discussed.

Two major issues are driving this study. The growing differences in philosophy and ambition of ASU and the rest of the SoCon, primarily the private football playing institutions, and UNCC’s addition of football. ASU’s budget is currently $14 million behind the top schools in CUSA Rice and SMU. Of course those are private institutions which have scholarship costs of $10 million and $8 million respectively. ASU is $7 million behind ECU, nothing on the gap between Marshall and ASU. Seventy percent of the $7 million is for travel, additional coaches and increased salaries. A little over $2 million would be made up through conference TV revenues and the remaining would come from increased ticket prices and increased game guarantees. At current attendance numbers a $15 increase per game ticket would net and additional $1.9 million annually (based on 21,000 paying customers and a 6 game schedule). With a maximum target for stadium seating set at 35,000 (due to infrastructure restrictions in Boone) the revenues generated from an additional 10,000 tickets sold per game (averaged out) would be $2.7 million. The increased ticket revenue would account for $4.6 of the $5 million needed. Increases in game guarantees would make up any shortfalls. As a FCS program ASU will receive $350,000 for our trip to UGA. As a FBS program that figure would swell to around $900,000. Two large guarantee games will generate nearly $2 million annually. The consultants are confident ASU can raise the additional revenues to compete in CUSA. Obviously there needs to be an invite on the table. Stadium expansion costs also need to be considered, but it is my guess members of the study committee have been targeted for that.

Most teams charter flights so getting teams to Boone is not a problem with the runway at the Hickory airport ability to handle jets. It is a 45 min drive up the mountain. In contrast, teams playing Penn State land 2 hours away, UGA 1 hr 45 minutes away, Ole Miss 1 hr 45 minutes away in Memphis, TN, Auburn 45 minutes to Montgomery AL, and Clemson flies 1 hour to the Greenville / Spartanburg Airport.

Sun Belt is not an option as the revenues are not there to offset almost the same travel requirements. Hands down the best case scenario is a move to CUSA. Since the formation of an east coast WAC seems highly unlikely the second best would be a move to the CAA with a plan for the entire conference to make the move to FBS. Obviously that would require schools step up to the plate while some would likely look elsewhere.

Classic.....I thought ASU fans said they couldn't care less about Charlotte starting football and that we would have no impact on their "vaunted" program......HAHA!!.....we're more than 2 years from even taking the field and you guys are already looking over your shoulder.......

[phoenix3]

Boy you Elon guys love to cling to this baseball thing, don't you? Maybe you should stop wasting your time with football and focus entirely on baseball. Do you really want Coastal to come in and spank your one good team every year?

Are you looking forward to EVERY other team in the CUSA spanking your ONE good team every year?

[AppAlum2003]

The chattanooga times JUST posted this article:
http://timesfreepress.com/news/2011/mar/17/socon-waiting-app-states-decision/

There is a lot of info but here are the big things:

"Despite a lot of rumors, Cobb said Appalachian State is not definitely leaving the SoCon for Conference USA or any other league when the NCAA’s moratorium on changing divisions expires in August. “There are no offers on the table,” Cobb said."

Ouch, and:

"Cobb said he expects “some type of recommendation” to come out of the feasibility study committee’s March meeting later this month, and that recommendation will go to Chancellor Kenneth Peacock, who will make his recommendation to the ASU Board of Trustees in June."

It's extremely easy to misread the comment CC makes above. Everyone keep in mind he didn't say "Appalachian State is definitely not leaving" he said "Appalachian State is not definitely leaving." It's all posturing at this point.

[AppAlum2003]

Are you looking forward to EVERY other team in the CUSA spanking your ONE good team every year?

No, I think we should move down to Div II and win 100% of our games instead...

[PaladinFan]

If App St. leaves then there will be tremendous pressure by the media in Atlanta for Ga St. to move to the SOCON. I think that we eventually want to be FBS but I believe the powers that be in the Ga Legislature (Tech and UGA grads) will want to keep us FCS as long as possible.

There really isn't a reason Ga State shouldn't be in the SoCon.

Georgia State is smack dead in the middle of the conference footprint, would have natural rivals in every direction, and Atlanta is crawling with alumni from virtually every SoCon school who would undoubtedly venture in for games.

[ASUMountaineer]

Classic.....I thought ASU fans said they couldn't care less about Charlotte starting football and that we would have no impact on their "vaunted" program......HAHA!!.....we're more than 2 years from even taking the field and you guys are already looking over your shoulder.......

Do you feel better? Welcome to the game, I am surprised it took UNCC this long.

Any ASU fan that doesn't think UNCC adding football would potentially be a threat to recruiting, coverage, etc. is blind. UNCC is a larger school that has some advantages over ASU. It's just another reason why ASU should jump now if it can--especially to CUSA (which undoubtedly is a place many UNCC fans/ grads would like end up).

UNCC has a long way to go, but they can get there...in the meantime, it may make sense to keep your smack talk on the field--even though that's 2 years away for you guys.

[glsjunior]

There really isn't a reason Ga State shouldn't be in the SoCon.

Georgia State is smack dead in the middle of the conference footprint, would have natural rivals in every direction, and Atlanta is crawling with alumni from virtually every SoCon school who would undoubtedly venture in for games.

It makes sense geographically but we'd be downgrading in every sport except golf and track. Theoretically, us. Jax St and South Alabama should all be in the SOCON. That would be the Sunbelt squared.

[Waco Kid]

Are you looking forward to EVERY other team in the CUSA spanking your ONE good team every year?

That won't happen, but if it does I guess I'll know what it feels like to be an Elon football fan. Besides I think we've shown that we have many good teams with our 6 championships (soon to be 8) this year.

[PaladinFan]

It makes sense geographically but we'd be downgrading in every sport except golf and track. Theoretically, us. Jax St and South Alabama should all be in the SOCON. That would be the Sunbelt squared.

I don't really think that's the case, quite frankly. Sure, some sports the CAA will take based on sheer number of programs. But football is more or less a push, baseball is better in the SoCon, and I'd make a case for soccer as well, in addition to those you already mentioned.

Not disagreeing with your general point, but sometimes a schools budget may dictate an easier two hour bus ride to Chattanooga over a plane trip to Delaware.

[91Niner]

Do you feel better? Welcome to the game, I am surprised it took UNCC this long.

Any ASU fan that doesn't think UNCC adding football would potentially be a threat to recruiting, coverage, etc. is blind. UNCC is a larger school that has some advantages over ASU. It's just another reason why ASU should jump now if it can--especially to CUSA (which undoubtedly is a place many UNCC fans/ grads would like end up).

UNCC has a long way to go, but they can get there...in the meantime, it may make sense to keep your smack talk on the field--even though that's 2 years away for you guys.

Well then, apparently there are a lot of "blind" Mountaineers walking around, atleast the ones that post on this message board. You only have to go back 1-2 weeks to see that.....

[ElonPride]

Well then, apparently there are a lot of "blind" Mountaineers walking around, atleast the ones that post on this message board. You only have to go back 1-2 weeks to see that.....

Just an FYI Niner, yes, there are a lot of them.

[AppAlum2003]

Just an FYI Niner, yes, there are a lot of them.

Go watch college baseball - someone's got to. xnonono2x

[49RFootballNow]

On behalf of the Charlotte 49er fans, I'd like to appologize to all the non-App SoCon fans that want App to stay in FCS and the SoCon. We're sorry we scared your friend out of the FCS "playground". We honestly aren't staying long so don't worry, perhaps we'll scare them back down to you when we move up to FBS in a few years. xrotatehx

[T-Dog]

On behalf of the Charlotte 49er fans, I'd like to appologize to all the non-App SoCon fans that want App to stay in FCS and the SoCon. We're sorry we scared your friend out of the FCS "playground". We honestly aren't staying long so don't worry, perhaps we'll scare them back down to you when we move up to FBS in a few years. xrotatehx

You're acting like Charlotte is 100% the only reason we're studying a move up. We would be doing this study now regardless if Charlotte was starting a football team or not. It's a good 5th or 6th reason why, but mostly coincidental.

[Saint3333]

UNCC sure does think highly of themselves that is well documented.

Teams moving from no program or the FCS to the FBS is ONE OF the driving factors in this decision making process. Even if UNCC didn't have a football team (which it currently does not for those keeping score) the exodus of programs like UMass, Nova, and entrants like ODU would also push the decision up. UNCC just adds to that mix, but I'm not surprised UNCC fans want to take ALL the "credit" for it.

[49RFootballNow]

I just knew it would be T-doggy and Saintly to comment first behind me. xlolx

From the statements in the first post that identify us starting football as 1 or 2 reasons for this study, it's pretty fair to assume we are at the very least 50% of the reason it is occuring now. App should feel fourtunate to have an AD like Charlie Cobb who deals in realities and not delusional falacies like a good many of their message board fans. App should join the CAA and position themselves to move up when the time is right, and that's not right now. There is no super-secret CUSA invite waiting, but there could be in a decade if you add some doctorial programs, improve men's basketball significantly, and build that 35,000 seat stadium and fill it at the FCS level.

Now if there was an east/west CUSA split, who knows. That is also not a given, but App and Charlotte would both have a good chance at getting into the new eastern half of CUSA IF that happened, but not before Temple.

[ElonPride]

Go watch college baseball - someone's got to. xnonono2x

More watch college baseball than FCS!

Just because App totally sucks at doesn't mean it's crApp!

[Apphole]

I just knew it would be T-doggy and Saintly to comment first behind me. xlolx

From the statements in the first post that identify us starting football as 1 or 2 reasons for this study, it's pretty fair to assume we are at the very least 50% of the reason it is occuring now. App should feel fourtunate to have an AD like Charlie Cobb who deals in realities and not delusional falacies like a good many of their message board fans. App should join the CAA and position themselves to move up when the time is right, and that's not right now. There is no super-secret CUSA invite waiting, but there could be in a decade if you add some doctorial programs, improve men's basketball significantly, and build that 35,000 seat stadium and fill it at the FCS level.

Now if there was an east/west CUSA split, who knows. That is also not a given, but App and Charlotte would both have a good chance at getting into the new eastern half of CUSA IF that happened, but not before Temple.


UNCC is a major reason App is moving up- FALSE

UNCC is a major reason App is moving up ASAP- TRUE

[Apphole]

More watch college baseball than FCS!

Just because App totally sucks at doesn't mean it's crApp!

False

[AppAlum2003]

On behalf of the Charlotte 49er fans, I'd like to appologize to all the non-App SoCon fans that want App to stay in FCS and the SoCon. We're sorry we scared your friend out of the FCS "playground". We honestly aren't staying long so don't worry, perhaps we'll scare them back down to you when we move up to FBS in a few years. xrotatehx

If there was a Wikipedia page for "Why FCS fans think UNC-C fans are obnoxious" the above is the only thing you would need to post. xthumbsdownx

[T-Dog]

I just knew it would be T-doggy and Saintly to comment first behind me. xlolx

From the statements in the first post that identify us starting football as 1 or 2 reasons for this study, it's pretty fair to assume we are at the very least 50% of the reason it is occuring now. App should feel fourtunate to have an AD like Charlie Cobb who deals in realities and not delusional falacies like a good many of their message board fans. App should join the CAA and position themselves to move up when the time is right, and that's not right now. There is no super-secret CUSA invite waiting, but there could be in a decade if you add some doctorial programs, improve men's basketball significantly, and build that 35,000 seat stadium and fill it at the FCS level.

Now if there was an east/west CUSA split, who knows. That is also not a given, but App and Charlotte would both have a good chance at getting into the new eastern half of CUSA IF that happened, but not before Temple.

You're challenging us to fill our stadium after we've been at over 100% capacity for the last 6 seasons?

You're also assuming that you're 50% of the reason why we're doing the study from one report from one meeting. I can name several reasons why more important than Charlotte starting football.

-The growing drift apart in philosophies between App St and the SoCon (this is a long and complex story in itself so a lot of stuff can be filed under this.).
-The "glass ceiling" of revenue streams at the FCS level.
-A majority of the fans, or at least the fans with money, want to move up.
-The studying of the local infrastructure and how much it can handle while growing.
-The possibilities of the 2020 Master Plan and how it can be realized with a FBS move.

Those are much more important than Charlotte starting football, which is mostly coincidental. It is a reason why we're studying, but it's not as important an issue as the original poster believes. This would be happening regardless of Charlotte.

[glsjunior]

lol I am enjoying this. this is like the GSU vs GS argument Carolina style.

[ElonPride]

False

It's not false, your program really is terrible!

Guess it's hard to argue with you. After all, climate is affecting your baseball recruiting so much that you went apprx 1,700 games and nearly three decades without beating a ranked opponent. All the while, the Catamounts have fielded great teams playing in the mountains.

Good job man, good job.xsmileyclapx

[The Eagle's Cliff]

That's a generalization. Which of these schools, among others, have an established historical identity?

Bryant
Campbell
Charleston Southern
Jacksonville
Liberty
Marist
Monmouth
Robert Morris
Sacred Heart
Stony Brook
Towson

I wasn't thinking of FCS Mid-Major's - they're in their own category. Towson is a "regional" former teacher's college. They are named after the city instead of being "Maryland Northern". Liberty, though young, is a pretty established school with a national identity.

The Teacher's Colleges transitioned to regional universities in the 70's and 80's and the continuation of that transition adds more graduate programs and research academically and a higher level of athletic competition eventually. $$$$$$$ is the driving force behind the creation of I-AA and as we seek to increase revenue, leaving I-AA is just part of the natural progression.

Unfortunately, FCS is just not marketed well enough to make the public aware of the great product it is.

[Apphole]

It's not false, your program really is terrible!

Guess it's hard to argue with you. After all, climate is affecting your baseball recruiting so much that you went apprx 1,700 games and nearly three decades without beating a ranked opponent. All the while, the Catamounts have fielded great teams playing in the mountains.

Good job man, good job.xsmileyclapx


You saying more people watch college baseball than FCS was false. If App won the WS, not the college WS, the real one, I STILL would not care about baseball. It's boring and there is little to no athleticism involved. The greatest player ever was an obese Italian man.

Phew! Now that that's off my chest, Elon is a school of pretentious yankees and they would be huge shuffle board fans if their school led the conference in the sport.

[49RFootballNow]

If there was a Wikipedia page for "Why App. St. fans think Charlotte fans are obnoxious" the above is the only thing you would need to post. xthumbsdownx

I fixed that for you because I'm such a nice guy.


Those are much more important than Charlotte starting football, which is mostly coincidental. It is a reason why we're studying, but it's not as important an issue as the original poster believes. This would be happening regardless of Charlotte.

Apparently you and Charlie Cobb see things differently; because unless you're going to call the person who posted this a lair, then clearly Mr. Cobb thinks Charlotte Football IS 1 of 2 major reasons that App is doing this studey NOW. Not my words, and I'll tend to think Mr. Cobb knows more about it than message board posters.

[Apphole]

I fixed that for you because I'm such a nice guy.



Apparently you and Charlie Cobb see things differently; because unless you're going to call the person who posted this a lair, then clearly Mr. Cobb thinks Charlotte Football IS 1 of 2 major reasons that App is doing this studey NOW. Not my words, and I'll tend to think Mr. Cobb knows more about it than message board posters.


Please read my 2 T/F questions on this topic. It explains everything.

[49RFootballNow]

Please read my 2 T/F questions on this topic. It explains everything.

I have and I don't disagree with that. This isn't App's first FBS study and I doubt it will be the last. Again, I think it's good for App to have an AD that sees the realities of things and tries to keep your program on course. If anything perhaps it was too honest of him to admit we are a major factor.

[SoCon48]

You saying more people watch college baseball than FCS was false. If App won the WS, not the college WS, the real one, I STILL would not care about baseball. It's boring and there is little to no athleticism involved. The greatest player ever was an obese Italian man.

Phew! Now that that's off my chest, Elon is a school of pretentious yankees and they would be huge shuffle board fans if their school led the conference in the sport.

OUCH!

[Saint3333]

App should join the CAA and position themselves to move up when the time is right, and that's not right now. There is no super-secret CUSA invite waiting, but there could be in a decade if you add some doctorial programs, improve men's basketball significantly, and build that 35,000 seat stadium and fill it at the FCS level.

Now if there was an east/west CUSA split, who knows. That is also not a given, but App and Charlotte would both have a good chance at getting into the new eastern half of CUSA IF that happened, but not before Temple.

That sounds like good advice for UNCC football.

[Apphole]

I have and I don't disagree with that. This isn't App's first FBS study and I doubt it will be the last. Again, I think it's good for App to have an AD that sees the realities of things and tries to keep your program on course. If anything perhaps it was too honest of him to admit we are a major factor.

It is the last because we will be moving. All a study does is tell who evers paying them whatever they want to hear. Back in 2000 we had a Polish guy with Alzheimer that had less ambition than a hermit crab as chancellor. He got just what he wanted. Nothing. Things are different now. We know what we want/need. We just need a damn invite.

[49RFootballNow]

That sounds like good advice for Charlotte football.

xshhhx Keep watching.


We just need a damn invite.

Yeah, that's a big problem these days and eliminating the Sun Belt and MAC as options puts App into a corner where you have to hope 30-some existing eastern FBS programs get passed over for you. Its an all or nothing strategy.

[Apphole]

Yeah, that's a big problem these days and eliminating the Sun Belt and MAC as options puts App into a corner where you have to hope 30-some existing eastern FBS programs get passed over for you. Its an all or nothing strategy.

None of those schools will bring as much (overall) as ASU except maybe Temple. I feel like with a C-USA split, we're in for sure. Without one we're looking at a 4-5 year process involving a move to the CAA and making the move to FBS with several other schools like GSU, JMU and maybe even lil ol' UNCC. That's IF you can win some games. You can't rely on bball to get into a football conference. Especially when that bball team can only win 2 games in that same conference.

[49RFootballNow]

None of those schools will bring as much (overall) as ASU except maybe Temple.

I know App is your school/team and you have reasons to think this, but other schools and fans think the same of their programs too. App has a very good FCS football team, perhaps the best, but that's not as impressive as App fans think it should be to CUSA or any FBS conference. You might be in CUSA's top 10 but not near that top of that list and football is the only reason for that.


I feel like with a C-USA split, we're in for sure.

That goes without saying. A lot of east coast FCS schools' FBS prospects improve if this happens. Without SMU, Tulane, Tulsa and especially Rice, App's CUSA prospects improve dramatically. I just don't see a CUSA split on the horizon at this time. They are more financially secure as a conference now than they have ever been.


Without one we're looking at a 4-5 year process involving a move to the CAA and making the move to FBS with several other schools like GSU, JMU and maybe even lil ol' UNCC.

I see a CAA invite as the most likely course for App if they make any move at this time at all. You can improve you other sports against better competition and still have a valid reason to expand your stadium even without FBS football. As for the CAA moving up together, the new NCAA rules prevent that at this time, and so does W&M, Towson, Richmond.


That's IF you can win some games. You can't rely on bball to get into a football conference. Especially when that bball team can only win 2 games in that same conference.

New coach, new system, top two players get dismissed before the meat of the conference schedule gets going. Still beat our conference champion in 1 of those 2 conference wins, plus a ranked Tennessee and an Ah-She-She team at their home. I see reasons to be optimistic about our basketball in the next few years.

[AppMan]

On behalf of the Charlotte 49er fans, I'd like to appologize to all the non-App SoCon fans that want App to stay in FCS and the SoCon. We're sorry we scared your friend out of the FCS "playground". We honestly aren't staying long so don't worry, perhaps we'll scare them back down to you when we move up to FBS in a few years. xrotatehx

Scared us out of the SoCon, hardly. Just one more of many reasons to look at FBS, yes. At the very least this is a opportunity to get into a situation where the Niners aren't able to duck us any longer.

[cmaxwellgsu]

The SoCon has not only moved away from App, UTC, and us; they have added some pretty boring replacements. I would jump at the chance to replace Samford and Elon with William & Mary and Richmond. It would be a tremendous upgrade with better destinations. I have always wondered why Marshall couldn't have at least gotten a decent successor.

[Appfan_in_CAAland]

....Furman, Wofford, Samford, Davidson, The Citadel, and College of Charleston are different kinds of schools than the public Directional U's.


In 1975 the SoCon was made up of Citadel, Davidson, Furman, Richmond, VMI, W&M and two the interlopers ASU and ECU.



That's a generalization. Which of these schools, among others, have an established historical identity?

.....

Stony Brook
Towson

xbangxxbangxxbangx

Look, I understand these points but if you guys are going to argue public schools and private schools are different, at least know which schools are which.

[seantaylor]

It makes sense geographically but we'd be downgrading in every sport except golf and track. Theoretically, us. Jax St and South Alabama should all be in the SOCON. That would be the Sunbelt squared.

Wrong. Socon football and baseball is much stronger. Look at NC's for football. Baseball is an absolute no brainer.

[PaladinFan]

The SoCon has not only moved away from App, UTC, and us; they have added some pretty boring replacements. I would jump at the chance to replace Samford and Elon with William & Mary and Richmond. It would be a tremendous upgrade with better destinations. I have always wondered why Marshall couldn't have at least gotten a decent successor.

Again, someone show me some actual facts that suggest the SoCon is intentionally moving away from the public schools. Considering half the conference is big public instiutions. In my view, the SoCon has scooped up the universities with the best programs and facilities in the deep south. At what point does it stop being an argument about public/private and start being an argument about quality?

Now, it may be that Georgia Southern wants to be in a conference with all "Directional U's" (it doesn't exist, by the way). If that's the perogative, then there's not much I can do to convince you that Georgia Southern is playing in the most competitive athletic conference it can be in right now.

[ElonPride]

You saying more people watch college baseball than FCS was false. If App won the WS, not the college WS, the real one, I STILL would not care about baseball. It's boring and there is little to no athleticism involved. The greatest player ever was an obese Italian man.

Phew! Now that that's off my chest, Elon is a school of pretentious yankees and they would be huge shuffle board fans if their school led the conference in the sport.

Actually, it wasn't a false statement......

......and the other statement wasn't either. Your program appsolutley sucks. Apprx a 1,700 game drought.

[ThompsonThe]

I have and I don't disagree with that. This isn't App's first FBS study and I doubt it will be the last. Again, I think it's good for App to have an AD that sees the realities of things and tries to keep your program on course. If anything perhaps it was too honest of him to admit we are a major factor.

MAJOR Factor??????? It has taken UNCC three years to sell 3300 tickets; give it up 49RFootballNow......you guys have no fans or students that give a crap about your football team. Even the 3300 was half with former panther players crying and begging people to purchase tickets so that they could show Rose that they would be a good football coach for UNCC. All that after Rose said they would push for a team IF they sold 5,000 within six months. Yeah, people are about as scared of UNCC commuter school football as they are of FELON football.

[PaladinFan]

Actually, it wasn't a false statement......

......and the other statement wasn't either. Your program appsolutley sucks. Apprx a 1,700 game drought.

Woah, missed Appholes comment. Pains me to say I didn't scissor kick the statment that baseball players lacked athleticism and was boring. Outside of being patently false, that's an asanine statement generally.

"baseball is dull only to dull minds."

[LeadBolt]

Is there any thing new on the ASU study?

[ASUMountaineer]

Well then, apparently there are a lot of "blind" Mountaineers walking around, atleast the ones that post on this message board. You only have to go back 1-2 weeks to see that.....

Where did I say there wasn't? I'm not sure what your issue is with ASU, but it sounds like you have an axe to grind. That's fine, I'm just not sure where it comes from...we rarely play UNCC in any sport.

[ASUMountaineer]

I fixed that for you because I'm such a nice guy.



Apparently you and Charlie Cobb see things differently; because unless you're going to call the person who posted this a lair, then clearly Mr. Cobb thinks Charlotte Football IS 1 of 2 major reasons that App is doing this studey NOW. Not my words, and I'll tend to think Mr. Cobb knows more about it than message board posters.

When did the General Assembly change the name from UNCC to Charlotte? I must have missed that.

I've already said that UNCC getting football is a factor for the study. Funny that you didn't respond to my posts that said as much. If your goal is to bash ASU football that's cool, but where is this superiority of UNCC notion coming from?

[gophoenix]

I wasn't thinking of FCS Mid-Major's - they're in their own category. Towson is a "regional" former teacher's college. They are named after the city instead of being "Maryland Northern". Liberty, though young, is a pretty established school with a national identity.

The Teacher's Colleges transitioned to regional universities in the 70's and 80's and the continuation of that transition adds more graduate programs and research academically and a higher level of athletic competition eventually. $$$$$$$ is the driving force behind the creation of I-AA and as we seek to increase revenue, leaving I-AA is just part of the natural progression.

Unfortunately, FCS is just not marketed well enough to make the public aware of the great product it is.

So in other words. You don't want to be in FCS because of what others think about it? If it is a great product, like you say, then what does it matter who is in it or what others think? $$$$ taken in for revenue from sports is a non-factor as these institutions are supposed to be non-profits. And how does athletic competition have anything to do with graduate programs, research or size?

Look at Wake and Duke and Rice and other such types like that..... Or look at other regional schools. And then there's regional schools and research schools in DII and DIII. One doesn't equal the other, there is no progression other than groups of people worried about image; at least from this thread.

[gophoenix]

The SoCon has not only moved away from App, UTC, and us; they have added some pretty boring replacements. I would jump at the chance to replace Samford and Elon with William & Mary and Richmond. It would be a tremendous upgrade with better destinations. I have always wondered why Marshall couldn't have at least gotten a decent successor.

Tired of hearing this.

The SoCon doesn't make the decisions, the schools do. The schools visit potential members and choose to persue or not. When the schools voted, Wofford and Samford were unanimous. And Elon was all but one as App abstained. Saying "the conference" is including all our schools as decision makers.

Next, where is this true? Boring replacements? How so? Is the a football opinion only? And even then, how has the conference moved awy from App, GSU and UTC? They are, after all, voting on these new members. And nowhere published has there ever been a change of philosophy. Other than the Dan Morrison "footprint" thing that certain App and GSU fans like to comment about.

You guys were irritated that they took in Elon and Wofford. You guys voted on them. You guys visited other schools. You took and Elon that turned down the CAA. You complain about travel, yet complain about the schools you took being in the footprint. You complain about the footprint, then add Samford who is outside the footprint and then that's not good enough. IF Elon, Wofford and Samford hadn't have been here; the SoCon would be worse in baseball and other sports. The SoCon would be sitting at 6 teams, as, well, there's no one else to take.

None of the accusations of substantiated. You guys are just worried about image and what ACC and SEC fans think of your school.

[bigCasu]

Your climate comment.....not valid. Your Ole Mountain Jug rival WCU has fielded some pretty great teams.

Again....pffff...

You obviously know nothing about the climate of Boone compared to Cullowhee. Boone can get 50 inches of rain and 50 inches of snow in the same year, while Cullowhee can go an entire winter without snow.

[ElonPride]

You obviously know nothing about the climate of Boone compared to Cullowhee. Boone can get 50 inches of rain and 50 inches of snow in the same year, while Cullowhee can go an entire winter without snow.

Pfff....still not a valid argument.

So many schools need to battle "climate" with recruiting.

Again a 29 year drought beating a ranked team......simply terrible.

[WUTNDITWAA]

Tired of hearing this.

The SoCon doesn't make the decisions, the schools do. The schools visit potential members and choose to persue or not. When the schools voted, Wofford and Samford were unanimous. And Elon was all but one as App abstained. Saying "the conference" is including all our schools as decision makers.

Next, where is this true? Boring replacements? How so? Is the a football opinion only? And even then, how has the conference moved awy from App, GSU and UTC? They are, after all, voting on these new members. And nowhere published has there ever been a change of philosophy. Other than the Dan Morrison "footprint" thing that certain App and GSU fans like to comment about.

You guys were irritated that they took in Elon and Wofford. You guys voted on them. You guys visited other schools. You took and Elon that turned down the CAA. You complain about travel, yet complain about the schools you took being in the footprint. You complain about the footprint, then add Samford who is outside the footprint and then that's not good enough. IF Elon, Wofford and Samford hadn't have been here; the SoCon would be worse in baseball and other sports. The SoCon would be sitting at 6 teams, as, well, there's no one else to take.
None of the accusations of substantiated. You guys are just worried about image and what ACC and SEC fans think of your school.

Pffft...And they said we couldn't agree on anything. :D

[Skjellyfetti]

Pfff....still not a valid argument.

So many schools need to battle "climate" with recruiting.

Again a 29 year drought beating a ranked team......simply terrible.

Who cares? If you want to talk about baseball so badly, maybe you should find a mid-major college baseball board to troll.

[PaladinFan]

Tired of hearing this.

The SoCon doesn't make the decisions, the schools do. The schools visit potential members and choose to persue or not. When the schools voted, Wofford and Samford were unanimous. And Elon was all but one as App abstained. Saying "the conference" is including all our schools as decision makers.

Next, where is this true? Boring replacements? How so? Is the a football opinion only? And even then, how has the conference moved awy from App, GSU and UTC? They are, after all, voting on these new members. And nowhere published has there ever been a change of philosophy. Other than the Dan Morrison "footprint" thing that certain App and GSU fans like to comment about.

You guys were irritated that they took in Elon and Wofford. You guys voted on them. You guys visited other schools. You took and Elon that turned down the CAA. You complain about travel, yet complain about the schools you took being in the footprint. You complain about the footprint, then add Samford who is outside the footprint and then that's not good enough. IF Elon, Wofford and Samford hadn't have been here; the SoCon would be worse in baseball and other sports. The SoCon would be sitting at 6 teams, as, well, there's no one else to take.

None of the accusations of substantiated. You guys are just worried about image and what ACC and SEC fans think of your school.

I suppose that's my point. If App and GSU are so fed up with the small schools, why on earth did their administration vote them in? Fairly clear in all this that the administration of these schools are thinking one thing, while the fans think another.

I do think your last comment holds weight. I anticipate a good bit of pride plays into all of this conversation. No one likes being seen as a "little brother"

[ElonPride]

I suppose that's my point. If App and GSU are so fed up with the small schools, why on earth did their administration vote them in? Fairly clear in all this that the administration of these schools are thinking one thing, while the fans think another.


+1 GP

+1 PF

[Waco Kid]

I have and I don't disagree with that. This isn't App's first FBS study and I doubt it will be the last. Again, I think it's good for App to have an AD that sees the realities of things and tries to keep your program on course. If anything perhaps it was too honest of him to admit we are a major factor.

The reason UNCC has any affect on our study is that we share the same market for the most part. It would be best to move up now (I think we would do it at some point without UNCC having FB) before UNCC can grab any attention in the Charlotte market. That's not saying we are scared of UNCC being a better program than us, but there are only so many TVs and sponsorship $$$ available in Western NC. Currently we have a chance to own the market for FBS football in this part of the state just like we already own it in FCS football. With UNCC coming along we will soon have another FCS school to fight against in recruiting and exposure. We've already seen schools like Wofford, Presby, GW, Campbell, Elon, and NCCU move to FCS which dilutes the recruiting pool. UNCC would be another school to add and yes they have the potential to make a larger impact than any of the others.

Basically it boils down to we can wait and have yet another school in NC/SC to fight against in FCS, or we can move up while the iron is hot to become THE TEAM in WNC. We sat still for years letting too many people catch up so now it's time we become the school that moves forward. UNCC has a long way to go before they can evne begin to reach the level of success ASU has. I don't think UNCC has very much momentum with their program right now, but the admin has to plan ahead for 10-15 years down the road.

[Smitty]

You obviously know nothing about the climate of Boone compared to Cullowhee. Boone can get 50 inches of rain and 50 inches of snow in the same year, while Cullowhee can go an entire winter without snow.

We get a lot of rain, but for some reason not as much snow. Usually 1 good snow out of the year.

[Rekdiver]

Uh could be your elevation is 1000 feet lower than Boone?

[Smitty]

Uh could be your elevation is 1000 feet lower than Boone?

Really?


You just blew my mind...

[SoCon48]

Pfff....still not a valid argument.

So many schools need to battle "climate" with recruiting.

Again a 29 year drought beating a ranked team......simply terrible.

We're a football school and evidently Elon is not.

[AppMan]

xbangxxbangxxbangx

In 1975 the SoCon was made up of Citadel, Davidson, Furman, Richmond, VMI, W&M and two the interlopers ASU and ECU.

Look, I understand these points but if you guys are going to argue public schools and private schools are different, at least know which schools are which.

Get off your high horse and stop splitting hairs here. Nobody in their right mind would even remotely attempt to compare VMI, Citadel and W&M to ECU and ASU on the basis they are public. Besides, I never said they were all private, but that was simply the make up of the Southernm Conference back in the early 70's. The point is they are all small, high academic schools and were long standing members of the Southern Conference in relationship to larger regional universities which were relative new comers to the league.

[ElonPride]

We're a football school and evidently Elon is not.

And?

[App-a-latch-un]

I just knew it would be T-doggy and Saintly to comment first behind me. xlolx

From the statements in the first post that identify us starting football as 1 or 2 reasons for this study, it's pretty fair to assume we are at the very least 50% of the reason it is occuring now. App should feel fourtunate to have an AD like Charlie Cobb who deals in realities and not delusional falacies like a good many of their message board fans. App should join the CAA and position themselves to move up when the time is right, and that's not right now. There is no super-secret CUSA invite waiting, but there could be in a decade if you add some doctorial programs, improve men's basketball significantly, and build that 35,000 seat stadium and fill it at the FCS level.

Now if there was an east/west CUSA split, who knows. That is also not a given, but App and Charlotte would both have a good chance at getting into the new eastern half of CUSA IF that happened, but not before Temple.

You are the most delusional fan I've ever seen on any message board. And just to reiterate, the world does not revolve around uncc nor does anyone care about your non existent program. 50% of the reason hahahahhahaha insane, xlolxxlolxxlolx

[49RFootballNow]

You are the most delusional fan I've ever seen on any message board. And just to reiterate, the world does not revolve around uncc nor does anyone care about your non existent program. 50% of the reason hahahahhahaha insane, xlolxxlolxxlolx

If I'm the most delusional fan you've ever seen on any message board you must not go to any App. St. boards.

[theasushow]

xpopcornx

(first post in 2011 hahahahahah yay)

[ncguitarplyr]

I think you guys need to give more respect to UNCC football. I mean can you remember the last time they lost? I can't.

[49RFootballNow]

I think you guys need to give more respect to UNCC football. I mean can you remember the last time they lost? I can't.

And we're 1-0 all time against App. :p

[SoCon48]

And?


All that drivel about baseball on a football board..

[ElonPride]

All that drivel about baseball on a football board..

xblahblahx

[BucBisonAtLarge]

This gnashing of teeth over the future of the Southern Conference is so misplaced to this viewer from a distance. For a guy from Connecticut who went to Bucknell, and now lives in New Mexico, I have read some on the Southern conference, a little more than wikipedia offers. It seems like an institution with a resilient essence, losing the SEC schools then the ACC schools in turn it sustained itself over all of the comings and goings just fine. No one member can claim ownership in any era. It has schooled a nation on what an intercollegiate atheletic conference might provide at any particular point in time. This league seems to welcome newcomers and bid farewell to departing members with a lot m ore grace and enthusiasmthan this thread might let you believe. No it never is quite the same Southern Conference, but it never has been.

The Southern Conference has rolled with the shuffling of membership while keeping a profile and presence, something The Ivy League has never attempted. It is not going to be a southern Ivy League. We may have one too many Ivy League as it is, so ponderous and self-important. I would like the Patriot League presidents to look at your mix of public and private, small and large and see if there is something in the Southern Conference to be borrowed. ASU should go, and secure in the knowledge that they have had successes in their stay in the Southern. Next?

[Saint3333]

If I'm the most delusional fan you've ever seen on any message board you must not go to any App. St. boards.

Every program has delusional fans including ASU, you just happen to be the representative from UNCC. It is a part you play almost too well.

[Apphole]

And we're 1-0 all time against App. :p

Huh?

[StorminASU]

And we're 1-0 all time against App. :p

In what?

[apaladin]

Scary to hear anyone besides us message board geeks actually talk about 1) No to Sunbelt and 2) CAA to FBS. That difference in revenue from an FBS game says it all. Hard to ignore $350k vs $900k.

Wouldn't said FBS just schedule another FCS team instead of giving you or ASU another $550k. You would still be a low level FBS team and nothing to write home about.

[apaladin]

ASU's attendance has skyrocketed in the last few years along with their national success. It hasn't been that long ago that they couldn't fill their homeside. The question is can they maintain or grow attendance after a couple of years of FBS play and maybe they're not too successful on the field? Playing meaningless November games in Boone could be a problem. Afterall the best you can hope for is a mid-December Wednesday night bowl game on ESPNU.

[AppMan]

Playing meaningless November games in Boone could be a problem.

This is what the playoff mentality (in reality the BCS is a playoff where teams are eliminated by computer) has done to college and pro football. Never have been able to wrap my mind around the idea of a meaningless game. It may not have have an impact on winning a conference championship or going to a bowl game, but all games are meaningful. Guess the NCAA basketball tournament started all this when it expanded to 32 teams. Back when you had to win the conference to qualify the regular season actually ment something. Now, if you are in the top college basketball conferences the regular season has become little more than a way to position yourself for the NCAA Tournament. The same can be said for FCS football. With conferences getting multiple bids, half way through the season the primary thing you play for is home field advantage. I realize I'm probably a relic, but if you have a playoff the regular season should be played to determine your league's representative in the playoff. Yes I know ASU won a National Championship as an at large berth. Doesn't change my mind.

[49RFootballNow]

In what?

In football. The 1947 season we had a 1-4 record. The "1" win being against App St Teachers College.xlolx

http://www.charlotte49erfootball.com/our-story.html

[Skjellyfetti]

In football. The 1947 season we had a 1-4 record. The "1" win being against App St Teachers College.xlolx

http://www.charlotte49erfootball.com/our-story.html

Must have been against our JV team or something. xconfusedx

We were 9-1 and UNCC wasn't on our schedule in 1947:
http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_iaa/southern/appalachian_state/yearly_results.php?year=1945

[49RFootballNow]

Must have been against our JV team or something. xconfusedx

We were 9-1 and UNCC wasn't on our schedule in 1947:
http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_iaa/southern/appalachian_state/yearly_results.php?year=1945

Most schools had "B" teams back then because they had so many returning vets.

[Apphole]

In football. The 1947 season we had a 1-4 record. The "1" win being against App St Teachers College.xlolx

http://www.charlotte49erfootball.com/our-story.html

Wow, that's even more irrelevent than your 70's NCAA run.

[ThompsonThe]

In football. The 1947 season we had a 1-4 record. The "1" win being against App St Teachers College.xlolx

http://www.charlotte49erfootball.com/our-story.html

That is so much baloney. You guys have CREATED a past. You were not founded until 1964 no matter how much you try to claim some service school in Charlotte because of WWII.
I am not surprised that you do not date yourselves back to the Ming Dynasty era since all you have to do 49RFootballNow is sit around in your parents basement and play computer games and eat Ho-Ho's.
By the way, is there a bulletin board that you do not visit each hour?

[49RFootballNow]

That is so much baloney. You guys have CREATED a past. You were not founded until 1964 no matter how much you try to claim some service school in Charlotte because of WWII.
I am not surprised that you do not date yourselves back to the Ming Dynasty era since all you have to do 49RFootballNow is sit around in your parents basement and play computer games and eat Ho-Ho's.
By the way, is there a bulletin board that you do not visit each hour?

Wow, you have no room to talk about folks visiting other message boards hourly Mr. Pot. Bonnie Cone asked me to tell you to go fly a kite with a metalic wire in an electrical storm.

http://publicrelations.uncc.edu/information-media-kit/university-history

[Skjellyfetti]

Most schools had "B" teams back then because they had so many returning vets.

Ok. "B" team. Still kinda sad that you try to pawn that off as some great victory over us. xlolx

[49RFootballNow]

Ok. "B" team. Still kinda sad that you try to pawn that off as some great victory over us. xlolx

You App fans have really lost your sense of fun. Football and sports in general are just "GAMES" after all. xrotatehx

[Apphole]

You go on about how App fans are dilusional and follow it up with an article about a BS pseudo-history that your desperate marketing department fabricated? What a joke. Shouldn't you be out trying to sell all those tickets that nobody seems to want?

[49RFootballNow]

You go on about how App fans are dilusional and follow it up with an article about a BS pseudo-history that your desperate marketing department fabricated? What a joke. Shouldn't you be out trying to sell all those tickets that nobody seems to want?

Interesting, when did we start selling tickets to football games? Oh that's right, we haven't yet. We have sold $4.5 million in seat licenses though. Thanks for playing.

[Apphole]

Interesting, when did we start selling tickets to football games? Oh that's right, we haven't yet. We have sold $4.5 million in seat licenses though. Thanks for playing.

3,300 of 5,000. You knew what I was talking about. There seem to be a handful of you that really care about this, I'll give you that. Trouble is, not too many others do. Thanks for that article though. I now know what website to go to for a laugh.

Anyways, please leave. This is a thread about a real team. A real good real team that's about to bring it's talents to the FBS. It's not about a school with a zygote football team and aspirations of world domination.

[49RFootballNow]

3,300 of 5,000. You knew what I was talking about. There seem to be a handful of you that really care about this, I'll give you that. Trouble is, not too many others do. Thanks for that article though. I now know what website to go to for a laugh.

Anyways, please leave. This is a thread about a real team. A real good real team that's about to bring it's talents to the FBS. It's not about a school with a zygote football team and aspirations of world domination.


Again, have fun in the Sun Belt. No one in CUSA west will be voting to add a regional masters level college.

[App-a-latch-un]

Again, have fun in the Sun Belt. No one in CUSA west will be voting to add a regional masters level college.

Oh my F'ing christ, you invade every single thread about App with your irrelevant Charlotte crap, delusions, and absolutes. Start your own thread about App since you got such a hard on for us but until you do, learn that none of these threads concern Charlotte. Nobody gives a flying tossed salad about Charlotte!xbangxxbangxxbangxxbangxxbangxxbangxxban gxxbangxxbangxxbangxxbangxxbangxxbangxxbangxxbangx xbangxxbangxxbangxxbangxxbangxxbangxxbangxxbangxxb angx

[SoCon48]

Oh my F'ing christ, you invade every single thread about App with your irrelevant Charlotte crap, delusions, and absolutes. Start your own thread about App since you got such a hard on for us but until you do, learn that none of these threads concern Charlotte. Nobody gives a flying tossed salad about Charlotte!xbangxxbangxxbangxxbangxxbangxxbangxxban gxxbangxxbangxxbangxxbangxxbangxxbangxxbangxxbangx xbangxxbangxxbangxxbangxxbangxxbangxxbangxxbangxxb angx

Great post and to the point.

[49RFootballNow]

You guys are highly entertaining, never change.xlolx

[Apphole]

If I was a fan of a nobody start-up program I would try to attach myself to the most renowned program in the FCS too.

[moss2k]

Why would we leach onto an FCS program? If anything, we'd leach on to (ugh) ECU, but we aren't entertaining either of those.

I've still haven't seen anything about CUSA giving an invite to App State, can anyone provide that article for me? Maybe I missed it.

[I-16Bandit]

Interesting, when did we start selling tickets to football games? Oh that's right, we haven't yet. We have sold $4.5 million in seat licenses though. Thanks for playing.

This guy reminds me of a certain group of fans with a start-up program in Georgia...

[91Niner]

UNC-Tweetsie......Home of the most delusional fanbase in America.

"we've never actually done anything athletically or academically to speak of, but we won 3 Level 2 "National Championships" and you don't even play football and we beat one big name team 4 years ago and you don't even play football and ......." xlolx

[Apphole]

Concord Community College has become the laughing stock of the FCS measge boards thanks to their delusional fans. You have more research and you're in a better basketball conference. This translates to

A. Your teachers being grad students and all the actual PhDs teaching classes of a hundred or more. 90% of my classes hve had under 17 people and the prof was a PhD. Who's getting a better education there? Perhaps that's why our admission standards are so much higher. CCC has a funding advantage with their research capacity, which can't be ignored, but to suggest that their academically superior is a joke. It's harder to get in here. That is a fact. Therefore, smarter people go here.

B. You lost all but 2 conference games. The A10 is solid in bball, maybe even the best midmajor conference. Unless you want to be like NCST you can't define the merits of your school based on the accomplishments of those in your conference. The fact is, the A10 is one of the most polarized conferences. Without the top 3 schools, the A10 is nothing.

There I responded without mentioning football, or lack-there-of.
Now, to mention football:

Attendence: CCC always brags about the supreme competition they face week in and week out in their arena. They also boast one of the largest student bodys. Tell me then, if your HUGE school can only draw 8k to a bball game against all those powerhouses in the mighty A10, how do you plan to fill a 15k football stadium against FCS schools?

FBS/FCS: I've never encountered anyone who plays both sides of an argument like CCC fans do. You insult the FCS, lumping it all together, calling it a second rate league, D II etc. you say App has accomplished nothing and has no chance to go FBS. Yet you plan to join and pretty much do the exact same thing? It is a fact that no school has seen this kind of success at this level before. So you're saying that CCC is destined to get 4 NC in a row, to pack 40k into their stadium against FCS teams? WE are the delusional ones? We may get ahead of ourselves at times, but what you believe defines delusional.

[Apphole]

And all that was typed on an Ipod touch (which I deserve a medal for) so please forgive any spelling errors.

[91Niner]

Concord Community College has become the laughing stock of the FCS measge boards thanks to their delusional fans. You have more research and you're in a better basketball conference. This translates to

A. Your teachers being grad students and all the actual PhDs teaching classes of a hundred or more. 90% of my classes hve had under 17 people and the prof was a PhD. Who's getting a better education there? Perhaps that's why our admission standards are so much higher. CCC has a funding advantage with their research capacity, which can't be ignored, but to suggest that their academically superior is a joke. It's harder to get in here. That is a fact. Therefore, smarter people go here.

B. You lost all but 2 conference games. The A10 is solid in bball, maybe even the best midmajor conference. Unless you want to be like NCST you can't define the merits of your school based on the accomplishments of those in your conference. The fact is, the A10 is one of the most polarized conferences. Without the top 3 schools, the A10 is nothing.

There I responded without mentioning football, or lack-there-of.
Now, to mention football:

Attendence: CCC always brags about the supreme competition they face week in and week out in their arena. They also boast one of the largest student bodys. Tell me then, if your HUGE school can only draw 8k to a bball game against all those powerhouses in the mighty A10, how do you plan to fill a 15k football stadium against FCS schools?

FBS/FCS: I've never encountered anyone who plays both sides of an argument like CCC fans do. You insult the FCS, lumping it all together, calling it a second rate league, D II etc. you say App has accomplished nothing and has no chance to go FBS. Yet you plan to join and pretty much do the exact same thing? It is a fact that no school has seen this kind of success at this level before. So you're saying that CCC is destined to get 4 NC in a row, to pack 40k into their stadium against FCS teams? WE are the delusional ones? We may get ahead of ourselves at times, but what you believe defines delusional.

Wow......could you be any more clueless? Where did any of "us" say we were going to do any specific thing (as far as winning championships)? The thing you can't seem to grasp is that moving into an upper FBS is about much more than just how you did in FCS football. Its about your market and its potential, its about (whether UNC-T fans admit it or not) your entire athletic program. The fact is, UNC-T has a great FCS football program and nothing more to this point. In fact, in our worst men's bball season since 1985 (feel free to look it up) we still averaged over 6,000 per game while UNC-T averaged what 1700/game. Nice.Hell, our womens team averaged nearly the same as your men's team, as has our baseball team the last couple years. UNC-T needs to get over yourselves.

As for your entire "A" section. Puhleeze......Doctoral Institution vs. Masters......enuff said.

[ASUMountaineer]

Wow......could you be any more clueless? Where did any of "us" say we were going to do any specific thing (as far as winning championships)? The thing you can't seem to grasp is that moving into an upper FBS is about much more than just how you did in FCS football. Its about your market and its potential, its about (whether UNC-T fans admit it or not) your entire athletic program. The fact is, UNC-T has a great FCS football program and nothing more to this point. In fact, in our worst men's bball season since 1985 (feel free to look it up) we still averaged over 6,000 per game while UNC-T averaged what 1700/game. Nice.Hell, our womens team averaged nearly the same as your men's team, as has our baseball team the last couple years. UNC-T needs to get over yourselves.

As for your entire "A" section. Puhleeze......Doctoral Institution vs. Masters......enuff said.

Wow, I just checked back in and you guys are still going. This is hilarious...I enjoy seeing this "competitive banter." I will say I'm a little disappointed in my fellow Mountaineers for continuing to compare ASU football to the lack of UNCC football...I just don't get it--there's nothing to compare at this point.

Anyways, what is UNC-T? As moss2k asked, could you attach an article announcing the addition of another UNC system school? Is the T for Thomasville? That would seem odd given that UNCG and NC A&T are so close. Thanks.

[asumike83]

The thing you can't seem to grasp is that moving into an upper FBS is about much more than just how you did in FCS football. Its about your market and its potential, its about (whether UNC-T fans admit it or not) your entire athletic program.

Both UNCC and ASU have delusional fans within the fanbase, as just about anyone can agree. I live in Charlotte and there are a good number of UNCC Alumni that honestly believe that their football program will be BCS level by 2018. Coach Lambert would be doing a great job to competing for a playoff spot in an auto-bid FCS conference in that time frame. There are also ASU fans who think we'll be Boise St. in 2018, so it goes both ways.

However, one thing I have to point out is that any potential bid to C-USA would be based almost solely on football. That is where the money comes from and that would be the conference's primary concern. I would love for ASU to step up the basketball program and hopefully a move to C-USA would do that, but it is definitely not a primary factor in receiving a bid.

Time will tell, but I firmly believe that ASU is either C-USA bound or staying put. There was one post suggesting we'll end up in the Sun Belt, which is a very uninformed statement. The analysis conducted in ASU's feasibility study concluded that we generate more revenue from ticket sales, sponsors and merchandise than any team currently in the Sun Belt or MAC, making a move to either of those conferences lateral at best and not a consideration.

[App-a-latch-un]

UNC-Tweetsie......Home of the most delusional fanbase in America.

"we've never actually done anything athletically or academically to speak of, but we won 3 Level 2 "National Championships" and you don't even play football and we beat one big name team 4 years ago and you don't even play football and ......." xlolx

CCC fans continue to call the level of football they intend to play level 2 and put it down. Maybe start calling it by it's proper name? It's D1 FCS, not d2 or level 2, even though your football team will be weaker than many D2 schools when you start. I don't understand why your fans keep putting down the division you are attempting to field a team in. Why is that?

[Saint3333]

I live in Charlotte and there are a good number of UNCC Alumni that honestly believe that their football program will be BCS level by 2018.

I live in Charlotte as well, and the majority of UNCC "fans" I know, well let's just say they'll likely be a couple hours north of Charlotte wearing blue on Saturdays this fall.

[49RFootballNow]

I live in Charlotte as well, and the majority of UNCC "fans" I know, well let's just say they'll likely be a couple hours north of Charlotte wearing blue on Saturdays this fall.

Wow, sounds a lot like App fans in Winter.xchinscratchx

[App-a-latch-un]

I live in Charlotte as well, and the majority of UNCC "fans" I know, well let's just say they'll likely be a couple hours north of Charlotte wearing blue on Saturdays this fall.

I grew up in Charlotte, moved to Boone when I was 18 and never left. I can tell you there is little to no fan support for the 69ers, only reason you get higher attendance for basketball is because that is all you have. There is really only 4 poster from Charlotte on here and they want to be a real college so bad and have a team to cheer for in a real sport that they are ravenous delusional spin doctors. Yes they have higher attendance in basketball (xbowx), thanks for coming to the football message board to tell us guys. Please leave, come back in 2013 when you have a legitimate reason to post. kthxbye xshhhx

[Skjellyfetti]

I bet over half of 49RFootballNow's 279 posts have been in App threads. xlolx

[49RFootballNow]

I bet over half of 49RFootballNow's 279 posts have been in App threads. xlolx

Might be, You guys are fun to talk to. Takes nothing to get some of you going.

[SoCon48]

Why would we leach onto an FCS program? If anything, we'd leach on to (ugh) ECU, but we aren't entertaining either of those.

I've still haven't seen anything about CUSA giving an invite to App State, can anyone provide that article for me? Maybe I missed it.

What does "leach" on to mean?

[ThompsonThe]

Might be, You guys are fun to talk to. Takes nothing to get some of you going.

I just cannot resist that statement:
Then you are the perfect nothing.

[ncguitarplyr]

If the only thing App had was basketball I'm sure we'd have higher attendance too. Hell after the season you guys had I'm surprised you'd even bring up basketball.

[Saint3333]

Serious question for UNCC fans; how much do you guys pull in for your annual athletic scholarship donations?

Let's see if you guys can actually give a civil, well researched answer.

[49RFootballNow]

Serious question for UNCC fans; how much do you guys pull in for your annual athletic scholarship donations?

Let's see if you guys can actually give a civil, well researched answer.

Athletics endowments and support for last year was $8.1 million, not including any figures for football.

[Saint3333]

Not endowments, annual giving for the scholarship program (i.e. Pirate Club, Rams Club, Yosef Club). A link would also be appreciated.

[49RFootballNow]

Not endowments, annual giving for the scholarship program (i.e. Pirate Club, Rams Club, Yosef Club). A link would also be appreciated.

$1.1 million and that's from our 2010 49ers Club Annual Report.

[Apphole]

$1.1 million and that's from our 2010 49ers Club Annual Report.

YC donations reached 2.4 mil last year.

[Apphole]

I believe I have the diagnosis for our UNCC friends.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
The first sentence says it all.

[Saint3333]

$2.5 million, but who's counting ;-).

http://www.news.appstate.edu/2010/10/01/yosef-club-sets-record-year/

[49RFootballNow]

YC donations reached 2.4 mil last year.

That's good, cause football scholarships (and their Title IX offsets) cost money. Our figures don't include donations toward the football program which are $5.8M (or an additionally $1.4M if you don't include FSL purchases which are technically defined as donations) from last year. We fully fund all of our current athletics scholarships from that $1.1M with couple hundred thousand left over for other AD uses. I believe East Carolina's Pirate Club raises $7M annually.

Since the announcement of football 49er Club membership has grown by 35%. There are built in seating/annual donation requirements with football so there will be additional annual donations from that source. 65% of FSL purchasers had never given to the 49er Club before football was announced.

49er Club figures from previous years:

2009: $2.8M
2008: $4.14M
2007: $0.9M
2006: $0.65M
2005: $0.4M

[Saint3333]

49er now, I'm not trying to get into a pissing match here, just want to understand the numbers.

ASU's annual scholarship costs were $3 million (with the in-state waiver) last year.

UNCC currently fields every sport that ASU does minus football, wrestling, and field hockey (16 sports in total). I'd estimate a maximum difference of 80 scholarships.

Keep in mind that both are in the NC public university system (UNCC is actually a little more than ASU from a tuition standpoint). Yet somehow UNCC "fully" funds all their scholarship needs with $900K, while ASU needs $3 million?

Also how has the program grown 35% from 2.8M in 2009 down to 1.1M in 2010? Are you talking numbers of members growth or amount? Are you sure you have accurate information, the numbers you're throwing out just don't add up? Maybe the previous amount covered the scholarship need?

[49RFootballNow]

49er now, I'm not trying to get into a pissing match here, just want to understand the numbers.

ASU's annual scholarship costs were $3 million (with the in-state waiver) last year.

UNCC currently fields every sport that ASU does minus football, wrestling, and field hockey (16 sports in total). I'd estimate a maximum difference of 80 scholarships.

Keep in mind that both are in the NC public university system (UNCC is actually a little more than ASU from a tuition standpoint). Yet somehow UNCC "fully" funds all their scholarship needs with $900K, while ASU needs $3 million?

Also how has the program grown 35% from 2.8M in 2009 down to 1.1M in 2010? Are you talking numbers of members growth or amount? Are you sure you have accurate information, the numbers you're throwing out just don't add up? Maybe the previous amount covered the scholarship need?

Most sports other than football and men's basketball allow nearly 100% of their participants to be on partial scholarships instead of full. We have somewhere in the neighborhood of 130 student athletes, of which the vast majority are partial scholarship recipients. ASU may have more of those partial scholarship athletes that need nearer 100% or 50% of a full scholarship than we do. Not sure of your male/female ratio, but it may also be higher than ours which is 46/54. A few percentage points on M/F ratio could also mean that you have to offer 10 to 30 more females scholarships as well. Something along those lines would be my guess. The scholarship difference HAS to be greater than 80 because we currently don't have 63 scholarship football and 10? scholarship wrestling (both male sports that MUST have offsetting female scholarships of a greater #). The scholarship difference has to be greater than 73x2 = 146.

In-state tuition is around $4700 here per semester, 2 semeters each year, 130 student athletes; that's $1.222M. That would be the figure if they are all full scholarships though........so somewhat less accounting for partials.

The 35% figure is growth in numbers of 49er Club members. Undoubtedly some previous 49er Club members chose to give less to the annual fund in order to purchase FSLs, accounting for the drop. Keep in mind that not all FSL purchasers are required to be 49er Club members, until 2013.

[Saint3333]

The disconnect comes from the use of "fully" funded as in maximum amount of scholarships allowed by the NCAA.

This may be the first reasonable exchange since you joined the board. Thanks.

[Apphole]

Most sports other than football and men's basketball allow nearly 100% of their participants to be on partial scholarships instead of full. We have somewhere in the neighborhood of 130 student athletes, of which the vast majority are partial scholarship recipients. ASU may have more of those partial scholarship athletes that need nearer 100% or 50% of a full scholarship than we do. Not sure of your male/female ratio, but it may also be higher than ours which is 46/54. A few percentage points on M/F ratio could also mean that you have to offer 10 to 30 more females scholarships as well. Something along those lines would be my guess. The scholarship difference HAS to be greater than 80 because we currently don't have 63 scholarship football and 10? scholarship wrestling (both male sports that MUST have offsetting female scholarships of a greater #). The scholarship difference has to be greater than 73x2 = 146.

In-state tuition is around $4700 here per semester, 2 semeters each year, 130 student athletes; that's $1.222M. That would be the figure if they are all full scholarships though........so somewhat less accounting for partials.

The 35% figure is growth in numbers of 49er Club members. Undoubtedly some previous 49er Club members chose to give less to the annual fund in order to purchase FSLs, accounting for the drop. Keep in mind that not all FSL purchasers are required to be 49er Club members, until 2013.


Thank you. Now please leave our thread. Perhaps you can start a "facts about UNCC" thread or a "UNCC is better than your school because" thread. Stop trying to use our notoriety to popularize yourselves. This is distracting the flow of info about OUR school. We have a season coming up, along with alot of other big changes. No one wants to talk about you or have a wiener measuring contest. We just respond when you troll in here and start stuff, which is about every few minutes. You began by posting numbers to try and make out FBS efforts seem futile. When someone immediately posted the attendance numbers (what was really being talked about) the pee distance began to be measured. Here is the door sir. Maybe we’ll see you at the Rock in a few years.

[49RFootballNow]

The disconnect comes from the use of "fully" funded as in maximum amount of scholarships allowed by the NCAA.

This may be the first reasonable exchange since you joined the board. Thanks.

Full scholarships in sports outside of Football and Mens Basketball (where its mandated that the majority of scholarships offered be full scholarships) are actually a rarity or minority. Add to that that there are 4 different methods where a university can show that they are complying with Title IX and there are several different senarios that can develope between similar looking institutions. Football (FCS and FBS) has such a large full scholarship requirement that where it appears you're adding about double the scholarships when you add the sport; you're really tripling the financial support needed to fund the football schlorships and Title IX offsets. To be honest I was surprised at that $2.5 million figure for the Yosef Club because it was much lower than I was expecting. I thought you guys had to be near $4M annually.


Thanks you. Now please leave our thread. Perhaps you can start a "facts about UNCC" thread of a "UNCC is better than your school because" thread. Stop trying to use our notoriety to popularize yourselves. This is distracting the flow of info about OUR school. We have a season coming up, along with alot of other big changes. No one wants to talk about you or have a wiener measuring contest. We just respond when you troll in here and start stuff, which is about every few minutes. You began by posting numbers to try and make out FBS efforts seem futile. When someone immediately posted the attendance numbers (what was really being talked about) the pee distance began to be measured. Here is the door sir. Maybe I’ll see you at the Rock in a few years.


The irony of course is that I've been posting on this board a lot longer than you have (at least under your current Apphole moniker), so maybe you should leave this thread. I have yet to see you add anything good or bad to the discussion of ASU's Feasibility Study. You mostly just respond to stuff I say. You're like my little shadow in this thread, waiting for me to throw you a crumb.

I actually let this thread ramble on for 10 pages and 2 days before making one comment in it other than providing the figures for CUSA stadium capacity in the thrid post, which I thought was quite nice of me considering that in those 10 pages the App fans ignored half of Charlie Cobb's stated reason for THIS feasibility study.

[Saint3333]

You don't understand what I'm saying. "Fully funded" means offering 100% of the allowable scholarships for a sport, such as 13 in men's basketball. I'm aware the splitting is allowed for most college sports.

You expected ASU to have 4 times the annual donations of UNCC, yet state that ASU is clearly inferior to UNCC?

[moss2k]

What big changes are coming to App State? Another elementary school contest for sideline graphics?

Just don't respond if you don't wish to talk to 49r.

Also, it's good to know that we're using this message board to piggyback of App's greatness. I hope you find a restroom before you explode.

[AppAlum2003]

Might be, You guys are fun to talk to. Takes nothing to get some of you going.

What do you mean "you guys"?

I smell racism.

[49RFootballNow]

You don't understand what I'm saying. "Fully funded" means offering 100% of the allowable scholarships for a sport, such as 13 in men's basketball. I'm aware the splitting is allowed for most college sports.

You expected ASU to have 4 times the annual donations of UNCC, yet state that ASU is clearly inferior to UNCC?

Would you care to show me where I said ASU was clearly inferior to Charlotte? It IS, but at least in football I'm pretty sure I didn't make that statement.

Here's what I've said:

Charlotte Football is a major reason App is looking at moving up now. TRUE, ask Charlie Cobb

Charlotte is a Doctorial Research University and App is a Masters Level Regional University. TRUE, see US News and World Report, Forbes, others and both universities' academic websites.

App can claim the Charlotte TV market all it wants and it will never make it true. TRUE we're both far behind Chapass Hole in the CLT media market, but Charlotte has the best chance to get the market between the two institutions because we are actually in the city. No, I don't need to see the trucker advertising map again.

App will not get a CUSA invite. TRUE There's no way in the world the presidents of Rice, SMU, Tulsa and Tulane vote to add a masters level university to a conference with them. Ignore the academic side of this all you want but they get to vote and they WILL not ignore your academics. ECU even has a medical school and if they could vote them out on academics standards they would.

App has no other sports programs that compliment your FCS football program to make you more valuable to a top level non-BCS conference like CUSA. TRUE

App plays FCS football and there's no FBS conference in the world that will forget it. TRUE No one cares you beat Michigan 5 years ago like no one cares we made the Final Four by beating Michigan 34 years ago. Its been 4 years since you won an FCS Championship. Is there a 5th year senior on the squad who was there? It's FCS Football! Yes, you beat up on most everybody around you in FCS football and no one who plays FBS football thinks that means anything!

Your 29,000 fans won't continue to show up once you start losing home games. TRUE They don't show up for your PLAYOFF GAMES NOW! They sure won't show up when you start losing. NO TEAMS' FANS SHOW UP WHEN THEY LOSE, ask the Carolina Panthers if you don't believe that.

App will be lucky to break .500 its first years in FBS. TRUE 99% of all teams that move up struggle at least at first. You don't have FBS talent now no matter how many times you try to tell yourselves you do, and even the average Sun Belt level FBS talent won't think BFE Boone is their college location of choice.

Now, let me apologize for being so harsh. I'm not saying that football wise we'll be better than App at FCS football, we probably won't. And I don't mean to rain TOO HARD on your CUSA Parade, because its not a realistic move up goal in the first place. I think you'll be hard pressed to find any facts that refute what I have said above though. If this were an App St only board and I was an ASU fan bringing up these same points I don't think it would bother some of you as much. That's fine, I get that, I'm the mean ole Charlotte fan that don't know nothing and ain't got no team. I like playing your bad guy! xnodx

[Saint3333]

It's not a lie if you believe. Nice job avoiding the question, back to the same old49ernow.