Pitt to block Villanova's Big East Move?

[ncguitarplyr]

35654.1

"If Pitt successfully blocks Villanova’s use of PPL Park, or causes the conference to waver on it’s offer of financial assistance to the program (likely in the form of waived fees or pay-outs for playing away games during the transition), then it may not matter how the trustees feel about the move otherwise."

http://vuhoops.com/2011/03/06/football-has-a-ppl-problem/

and

http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/03/07/size-matters-pitt-reportedly-has-concerns-over-villanovas-big-east-move/

This would help App State I think. It would make the Big East look to UCF and subsequently C-USA might look to App State.

[49RFootballNow]

The offer has already been extended to Villanova. Not sure if there is anything Pitt can do to stop it at this point that wouldn't result in a nasty lawsuit between two conference mates.

[DFW HOYA]

Non-story. Teams aren't "blocking" Villanova.

The commissioner's office would be the only group capable of putting up roadblocks.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Villanova needs to come up with another stadium idea besides PPL UNLESS the expansion project is larger. I don't believe a 30k seat facility will work in the BE.

This is a hot topic on the Temple board.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Something doesn't smell right about this. What would Pitt's motivation be to block Villanova?

[superman7515]

Pitt doesn't like it because it's going to hurt conference money. The lower the seating at the stadium, the less money Villanova makes. The less money Villanova makes, the more money the Big East pays Villanova each year to keep the program viable. The more money the Big East pays Nova, the less there is for all of the other conference football schools. Pitt (and probably a few others behind closed doors) do not want to put out large sums of money for their football teams plus subsidize Villanova's team.

[Franks Tanks]

Pitt doesn't like it because it's going to hurt conference money. The lower the seating at the stadium, the less money Villanova makes. The less money Villanova makes, the more money the Big East pays Villanova each year to keep the program viable. The more money the Big East pays Nova, the less there is for all of the other conference football schools. Pitt (and probably a few others behind closed doors) do not want to put out large sums of money for their football teams plus subsidize Villanova's team.

Makes sense. Pitt also gets a lot of kids from Eastern/Central PA and maybe they are scared Nova will hurt recruiting.

Pitt has a better basketball team than Nova right now. How weird would it be if Nova builds the stronger football program.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Pitt doesn't like it because it's going to hurt conference money. The lower the seating at the stadium, the less money Villanova makes. The less money Villanova makes, the more money the Big East pays Villanova each year to keep the program viable. The more money the Big East pays Nova, the less there is for all of the other conference football schools. Pitt (and probably a few others behind closed doors) do not want to put out large sums of money for their football teams plus subsidize Villanova's team.

That doesn't make sense.

Villanova is already getting $$ from the Big East for all sports except football. Certainly the price of keeping them "afloat" in football is less than, say, signing up Memphis or UCF in all sports. It's not like they're loaning them $100 million to buy an on-campus stadium. They could decide to pay some rental fee (possibly) to PPL. In the scheme of things, that's not much.

If you do a cost analysis between having Villanova add football or adding UCF or Memphis, you have to believe that having Villanova would win out in a big way. They are already paying Villanova to be in the league in all sports except football; that doesn't change. Adding UCF or Memphis adds another school to split the proceeds. Finanically, they are the drain, not Villanova.

Add to this the fact that they can add TCU, upgrade Villanova, and add a championship game, and the money becomes even more compelling in Villanova's favor. I don't believe finances are the reason.

The only other explanation I can think of is that Villanova's acceptance into Big East football puts a monkey wrench in the plans to split the Big East along football lines, with Memphis, UCF and others (Temple? Buffalo?) already lined up to join this new conference. But something similar to that has been rumored for years, and nothing has happened.

After all that, if they still don't like it, why don't they simply join the Big Ten if that's their concern?

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

It would not surprise me if there's another FBS conference formed along the East Coast in the very near future. Temple has two years to make a move. Their future is not in the MAC, especially as an all sports member. I can easily see Temple, Buffalo, Umass, Charlotte, JMU, App State and Georgia State joining up.

Temple's rights to the Linc is enormous. We have Penn State coming in this year and Notre Dame in 2014. Those games not only make Temple a lot of money, they also legitimize us as we continue to build our program.

[bluehenbillk]

From a local perspective, I have questions if VU could fill the current capacity of PPLPark, much less an expanded one. Not sure the Union, the main tenant of the building, in only their 2nd year of MLS play want to dilute the sketchy demand for their tickets & expand capacity by 50%. Still, you're talking the smallest venue in BCS football.

[TheValleyRaider]

Add to this the fact that they can add TCU, upgrade Villanova, and add a championship game, and the money becomes even more compelling in Villanova's favor. I don't believe finances are the reason.

An upgraded Nova plus TCU only gets the Big East to 10, and I'm pretty sure you need 12 to go to a title game

[GannonFan]

From a local perspective, I have questions if VU could fill the current capacity of PPLPark, much less an expanded one. Not sure the Union, the main tenant of the building, in only their 2nd year of MLS play want to dilute the sketchy demand for their tickets & expand capacity by 50%. Still, you're talking the smallest venue in BCS football.

That's the only part I question - why would the Union want to expand the stadium now? Sure they averaged 19k there last year, but that was their first season. Look at the Red Bull franchise up in New York - they're in an arguably more soccer-mad area, they have 3 notable foreign players (namely Henry from France), they had a brand new stadium last year, and they had a great season and finished first in the conference, and yet they only brought in 18k average to a stadium that has a 25k capacity. Why would the Union want to expand now to a 30k stadium that they won't come close to filling? And for concerts, smaller is actually better - there aren't tons of arena tours out there these days. I just don't see how that stadium is going to be expanded to 30k and how it would be justified.

[ccd494]

That's the only part I question - why would the Union want to expand the stadium now? Sure they averaged 19k there last year, but that was their first season. Look at the Red Bull franchise up in New York - they're in an arguably more soccer-mad area, they have 3 notable foreign players (namely Henry from France), they had a brand new stadium last year, and they had a great season and finished first in the conference, and yet they only brought in 18k average to a stadium that has a 25k capacity. Why would the Union want to expand now to a 30k stadium that they won't come close to filling? And for concerts, smaller is actually better - there aren't tons of arena tours out there these days. I just don't see how that stadium is going to be expanded to 30k and how it would be justified.

Plus football DESTROYS grass. The entire game is spent in the middle of the field, you develop big bald patches. Football lines make soccer fields look terrible (and vice versa). Turf isn't an option if you ever want to host international friendlies (turf is terrible for soccer).

Frankly, as an MLS and soccer fan (I would be thrilled if Maine dropped football to resurrect soccer), I hope the Union tell Villanova to go pound sand, unless they are getting eight digits per season for Wildcat football to destroy that stadium.

[ngineer]

From a local perspective, I have questions if VU could fill the current capacity of PPLPark, much less an expanded one. Not sure the Union, the main tenant of the building, in only their 2nd year of MLS play want to dilute the sketchy demand for their tickets & expand capacity by 50%. Still, you're talking the smallest venue in BCS football.

Heck, VU can't fill their own stadium of 13,000! (except on a parents weekend). Absolutely insane on their part. Legends in their own mind.

[GannonFan]

Plus football DESTROYS grass. The entire game is spent in the middle of the field, you develop big bald patches. Football lines make soccer fields look terrible (and vice versa). Turf isn't an option if you ever want to host international friendlies (turf is terrible for soccer).

Frankly, as an MLS and soccer fan (I would be thrilled if Maine dropped football to resurrect soccer), I hope the Union tell Villanova to go pound sand, unless they are getting eight digits per season for Wildcat football to destroy that stadium.

While I agree that football does rip up the field (one of the reasons why the Eagles don't even like just Temple playing in the Linc and why there would never, ever be a 3rd tennant there), the Union aren't in a position to tell nova to go away. They really could use another tennant and besides, the Union don't own the stadium, Delaware County does. If nova has the money to give, then they'll play there. I just don't see how an expansion is ever going to fly - nova would have trouble paying for it and there just isn't a need outside of playing WVU every other year.

[Franks Tanks]

Plus football DESTROYS grass. The entire game is spent in the middle of the field, you develop big bald patches. Football lines make soccer fields look terrible (and vice versa). Turf isn't an option if you ever want to host international friendlies (turf is terrible for soccer).

Frankly, as an MLS and soccer fan (I would be thrilled if Maine dropped football to resurrect soccer), I hope the Union tell Villanova to go pound sand, unless they are getting eight digits per season for Wildcat football to destroy that stadium.

I can't believe someone just wrote that on here.

[carney2]

Pitt has a better basketball team than Nova right now. How weird would it be if Nova builds the stronger football program.

If "stronger football program" includes fannies in the seats, well..when freakin' pigs fly.

If the Mainliners are really sniffing this FBS glue, posterity would thank the Pitts if they gave them a reality check. I almost hope that Villanova does this just so we can spend the next 10 years watching them repeatedly crash and burn in empty stadiums while people count the number of times that the Einstein quote about "doing the same thing over" is trotted out.

[superman7515]

While I agree that football does rip up the field (one of the reasons why the Eagles don't even like just Temple playing in the Linc and why there would never, ever be a 3rd tennant there), the Union aren't in a position to tell nova to go away. They really could use another tennant and besides, the Union don't own the stadium, Delaware County does. If nova has the money to give, then they'll play there. I just don't see how an expansion is ever going to fly - nova would have trouble paying for it and there just isn't a need outside of playing WVU every other year.

But the Union do have rights as the primary tennant, including the right to say no to Villanova. They have stated that, and it's been posted on here, in the past.

[ccd494]

I can't believe someone just wrote that on here.

I'm a University of Maine fan, not a football fan.

[LeadBolt]

I'm a University of Maine fan, not a football fan.

I didn't realize the two were mutually exclusive!

[ccd494]

I didn't realize the two were mutually exclusive!

Oh, they are definitely not. I was just explaining my presence here, despite disliking football as a spectator sport. I'd follow a Black Bear tiddlywinks team if it existed.

[HailSzczur]

Beyond the Pitt and PPL issues, the result of the faculty football surveys came out this week very much against the move to BE football:
http://vuhoops.com/2011/03/03/faculty-report-on-villanova-football-released/

Im not sure how much administration will llok into this as a deciding factoring, but to me 68% against is a tad overwhelming

[T-Dog]

Beyond the Pitt and PPL issues, the result of the faculty football surveys came out this week very much against the move to BE football:
http://vuhoops.com/2011/03/03/faculty-report-on-villanova-football-released/

Im not sure how much administration will llok into this as a deciding factoring, but to me 68% against is a tad overwhelming


I believe that this is a critical juncture for VU in terms of college athletics, and never has the university been better poised to make this move and enhance its national reputation, and join universities like Boston College that Villanova rightly sees as its peers, rather than the universities that Villanova has recently played in the I-AA playoffs: Stephen F. Austin, Appalachian State, and Eastern Washington University.

Make sure to pull that stick out of your *** when get on your high horse random VU faculty member. xnonox

[HailSzczur]

Make sure to pull that stick out of your *** when get on your high horse random VU faculty member. xnonox

Some of these quotes embarrased me as a Nova fan, such as that one. The other ones that bothered me were the ones that talked of the violence of the sport....as if we dont have student athletes getting injured playing football right now.

[GannonFan]

Oh, they are definitely not. I was just explaining my presence here, despite disliking football as a spectator sport. I'd follow a Black Bear tiddlywinks team if it existed.

Wow - that's just an incredible statement - you don't like watching football. Yikes.

[Cocky]

Beyond the Pitt and PPL issues, the result of the faculty football surveys came out this week very much against the move to BE football:
http://vuhoops.com/2011/03/03/faculty-report-on-villanova-football-released/

Im not sure how much administration will llok into this as a deciding factoring, but to me 68% against is a tad overwhelming

Why would the teachers be against the move? Most FBS schools have more teaching jobs and pay better than FCS schools. The potential to either add students or increase tutition would exist. Without doubt the 69% were not in the business school.

[Franks Tanks]

Why would the teachers be against the move? Most FBS schools have more teaching jobs and pay better than FCS schools. The potential to either add students or increase tutition would exist. Without doubt the 69% were not in the business school.

Liberal faculty members in the Northeast. Nova already has a high profile due to their basketball program so a move to FBS may help them less than other schools from a visibility standpoint.

[Franks Tanks]

Some of these quotes embarrased me as a Nova fan, such as that one. The other ones that bothered me were the ones that talked of the violence of the sport....as if we dont have student athletes getting injured playing football right now.

Ya, that was just stupid. One could make the arguement that the FBS game is perhaps a bit faster, and players are larger, faster, and more talented but injuries seem to happen at about the same rate at FCS, FBS, D-II whatever.

[GannonFan]

Why would the teachers be against the move? Most FBS schools have more teaching jobs and pay better than FCS schools. The potential to either add students or increase tutition would exist. Without doubt the 69% were not in the business school.

That's kind of an apples to oranges comparison though. Most FBS schools also tend to be lagrer, state supported schools. There aren't a lot of small, private schools in FBS whereas there are plenty of them in FCS. And it's not a chicken and egg thing and not knowing which came first - those FBS schools were, on average, already bigger than the FCS schools.

Going to FBS isn't going to really help the nova faculty any - nova isn't projecting rosey profits for their football program going forward. If they do this, it will be to potentially lose a little less money and to potentially ensure the basketball program stays elite. nova tuition is already over $50k a year so there's going to be a limit as to how much more they can raise tuition and the school isn't going to get much bigger as they are restricted in terms of space. For the faculty, there really isn't anything in it for them so that vote isn't surprising. Although, I don't think these decisions have ever been based on what the faculty thinks so it's really moot.

[Catsfan2]

I think that the University feels they have gotten all they are going to get out of full scholarship FCS football. The FCS national championship had virtually no effect on the University (except perhaps for FCS football recruiting). I believe that they will make the move and see how it goes for a few years (using the rented soccer stadium). If it works out great; if not they can return to FCS (either scholarship or not), or once again drop football altogether. I don't think there's anything the BE could do to make them keep a football team, and I don't think they could legally impose any penalty for dropping FB.

[Franks Tanks]

I think that the University feels they have gotten all they are going to get out of full scholarship FCS football. The FCS national championship had virtually no effect on the University (except perhaps for FCS football recruiting). I believe that they will make the move and see how it goes for a few years (using the rented soccer stadium). If it works out great; if not they can return to FCS (either scholarship or not), or once again drop football altogether. I don't think there's anything the BE could do to make them keep a football team, and I don't think they could legally impose any penalty for dropping FB.

If Nova moves and it doesn't work (whatever they define working), I can see Nova dropping the program.

I think Nova will attract quality recruits and have a competitive team in the Big East, but I still see them having an issue with drawing fans.

[henfan]

But how will dropping FB or returning to the FCS help VU protect hoops? Isn't that the primary excuse commonly being peddled for why the school MUST make this move?

[DFW HOYA]

If Nova moves and it doesn't work (whatever they define working), I can see Nova dropping the program.

I think Nova will attract quality recruits and have a competitive team in the Big East, but I still see them having an issue with drawing fans.

Big East: $15 million in annual TV revenues buys a lot of patience.

Patriot League: $0 in annual TV revenue.