Another vote for Ivy League Postseason... from Princeton

[Lehigh Football Nation]

http://goprincetontigers.blogspot.com/2011/01/changes-big-and-small.html


Director of Athletics Gary Walters had one to end the day, and that was to ask each person around the time to say what they would change about Princeton Athletics if they could change one thing. This time, he went the other way around the table, giving TB plenty of time to come up with his answers.

* Figure out a way to make the concourse at Princeton Stadium more engaging to fans during football games. TB loves the concourse at Lehigh's Goodman Stadium and the way it keeps fans connected to the game while offering all kinds of food and other options that enhance what we always refer to as fan experience.

And then, lastly:

* allow the Ivy League football champion to play in the NCAA playoffs. TigerBlog's main interest in this would be to study the effect such a move would have on Ivy League attendance for football and, presuming there was a rise in that figure, how that could then benefit all other Ivy sports in terms of ability to promote to a slightly larger fan base. TigerBlog isn't sure what that effect would be, but it would be interesting.

And that was what TB came up with.

Lifting the postseason Ivy League ban is still, as ever, on the minds of fans. The question is: are the Presidents listening? xnonono2x

[Franks Tanks]

http://goprincetontigers.blogspot.com/2011/01/changes-big-and-small.html



Lifting the postseason Ivy League ban is still, as ever, on the minds of fans. The question is: are the Presidents listening? xnonono2x

The Ivy presidents don't care what anybody thinks. Ivy and PL presidents feel they can defy logic when it comes to football.

[DetroitFlyer]

I wonder if the Ivy requested a bid if the NCAA would give them the same kind of hard time as the PFL.... As in make them request a bid multiple times, upgrade the schedule to include 11 games, schedule more games against non-PL, NEC, PFL, competition, etc.... The Ivy does not have the same problem as the PFL relative to lower division games.... My guess is that the NCAA would have have chapped lips for all of the you know what kissing if the Ivy decided to grace the playoffs with their presense. Just another indication of the outright corruption that is tolerated in the NCAA....

[danefan]

I wonder if the Ivy requested a bid if the NCAA would give them the same kind of hard time as the PFL.... As in make them request a bid multiple times, upgrade the schedule to include 11 games, schedule more games against non-PL, NEC, PFL, competition, etc.... The Ivy does not have the same problem as the PFL relative to lower division games.... My guess is that the NCAA would have have chapped lips for all of the you know what kissing if the Ivy decided to grace the playoffs with their presense. Just another indication of the outright corruption that is tolerated in the NCAA....

Speaking of which - ran across this article and forgot to post it

http://www.springfieldnewssun.com/springfield-oh-sports/university-of-dayton-flyers/daytons-athletic-director-contributes-to-ncaa-selection-process-1036410.html



Dayton and Jacksonville, co-champs of the non-scholarship Pioneer Football League, were seriously considered for an at-large bid before being taken off the board, Wabler said. The PFL is the only FCS conference without an automatic bid, and Wabler wants that to change, although he said there currently doesn’t seem to be any movement to expand the playoffs or change the format.

[Wildcat80]

Would love to see it....not sure it will ever happen.

[danefan]

Agreed. The playoffs would be a much bigger deal and much better publicized if the SWAC, Ivy and PFL participated. The more people interested, the better.

The SWAC not joining makes financial sense - can't knock them for it.
The Ivy not joining is nothing more than an elitist attitude.
The PFL not being given an AQ is stupid and will change, just a matter of time.

[Big Al]

Would love to see it....not sure it will ever happen.

The simple solution would be to amend the by-laws and eliminate the 50% at-large requirement. With the field at 20, 6-8 at-large participants is more than sufficient.

[DFW HOYA]

In the Ivy presidential mindset, it's still H-Y-P > Playoffs

[Lehigh Football Nation]

In the Ivy presidential mindset, it's still H-Y-P > Playoffs

And, ironically, in the Patriot League presidential mindset it also appears to be H-Y-P > PL.

[BlueHenSinfonian]

Agreed. The playoffs would be a much bigger deal and much better publicized if the SWAC, Ivy and PFL participated. The more people interested, the better.

The SWAC not joining makes financial sense - can't knock them for it.

I can. The playoffs are the defining aspect of FCS football. If the SWAC can't find a way to participate and make the money work (like every other school does) then they should drop down to Div II.


The Ivy not joining is nothing more than an elitist attitude.

I agree. The Ivy situation is actually very similar to the SWAC situation - the Ivies value their H/Y, Y/P, etc, games more than the playoffs, and don't want to somehow 'devalue' these end of season games, much like the SWAC feels their meaningless classics matter more than the playoffs. I understand the history behind some of the ancient Ivy rivalries, but no one is saying they have to stop playing them, they just have to be open to the idea of allowing one team per year to participate in the post season. Again - the FCS means playoffs, if a school thinks the playoffs aren't for them, they should find another level of football to play.


The PFL not being given an AQ is stupid and will change, just a matter of time.

I agree, the JU Dolphins should have been in the field this year. Given that non-(or limited depending on your POV)-scholarship Lehigh actually pulled off an upset this year, who knows what Jacksonville could have done. The PFL should be looked on as a model by other conferences. Many of their schools have very low budgets (the SWAC argument against participating - "We need the classic money to survive") as well as high academic standards (the Ivy argument - "The playoffs interfere with exams") yet the PFL is actively seeking the chance to participate.

[danefan]

I can. The playoffs are the defining aspect of FCS football. If the SWAC can't find a way to participate and make the money work (like every other school does) then they should drop down to Div II.


The difference between the SWAC and most other schools is that the SWAC has the history, organization and fanbase to make money outside the playoffs. Most, if not all, other FCS schools do not, so its hard to compare. Apples and Oranges.

[BlueHenSinfonian]

The difference between the SWAC and most other schools is that the SWAC has the history, organization and fanbase to make money outside the playoffs. Most, if not all, other FCS schools do not, so its hard to compare. Apples and Oranges.

Just because they can doesn't mean they should. It's time to force the hand of both the SWAC and the Ivy League. If they want to participate as FCS programs, they need to participate in all aspects of the FCS, including the playoffs. If it's their choice not to participate fully as FCS programs, they should choose another division or organization in which to play football.

[DFW HOYA]

Just because they can doesn't mean they should. It's time to force the hand of both the SWAC and the Ivy League. If they want to participate as FCS programs, they need to participate in all aspects of the FCS, including the playoffs. If it's their choice not to participate fully as FCS programs, they should choose another division or organization in which to play football.

It's not a NCAA requirement of any school to participate in the post-season. Notre Dame declined bowl games for 50 years and no one called for them to go to Division II.

[BlueHenSinfonian]

It's not a NCAA requirement of any school to participate in the post-season. Notre Dame declined bowl games for 50 years and no one called for them to go to Division II.

While the environment is certainly different in FBS vs FCS, I can't say that I agree with a team declining a bowl invitation either. Still, the only bowls that really mean anything are the big four, all of the others are consolation prizes. Whichever bowl happens to be the BCS championship is really the only one that you can draw an analogue to for the FCS playoffs, and I don't think anyone would this day in age ever turn down an invite to the BCS championship, which is effectively what the SWAC and Ivy League do every year at the FCS level.

Perhaps the NCAA should change the rules and make postseason play mandatory if a team qualifies. If the team doesn't show up for the game that they are scheduled to play they earn an automatic forfeit and a loss on the record.

[DFW HOYA]

Perhaps the NCAA should change the rules and make postseason play mandatory if a team qualifies. If the team doesn't show up for the game that they are scheduled to play they earn an automatic forfeit and a loss on the record.

There is a rule (inspired by Al McGuire, who famously declined an NCAA bid for his #2-ranked Warriors in the early 1970's to play in the NIT) that if the NCAA offers a post-season bid, you cannot accept another bid. However, there is no rule to require a school to play in the post-season, anymore than the NCAA can't require a school to play a game on a certain day of the week (e.g., BYU on Sunday).

[nwFL Griz]

The simple solution would be to amend the by-laws and eliminate the 50% at-large requirement. With the field at 20, 6-8 at-large participants is more than sufficient.

The bylaws specifically exclude football from that requirement. So no change is required, just the championship committee would have to approve it.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Figure out a way to make the concourse at Princeton Stadium more engaging to fans during football games. TB loves the concourse at Lehigh's Goodman Stadium and the way it keeps fans connected to the game while offering all kinds of food and other options that enhance what we always refer to as fan experience.

The concourse at Tiger Stadium, regrettably, has all the panache of a state prison. The food at the concessions is OK but the place could use some color, to be sure. Maybe some hawkers up and down the aisles. I know for a fact that a proposal to run some of those great outdoor Princeton Art Museum films on a big screen in the stadium concourse was ignored.

But to look to Goodman for stylistic cues? Not. The answer is just a few miles east along Route 22 at Fisher Field, which Goodman has been attempting to emulate in recent years, but without much success. Graphics, color, music, activities, aisle vendors - none of it over the top of course, but just right for the setting.

Princeton Stadium is an incredible feat of architecture, of course. One just gets the impression that it isn't quite finished yet.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The answer is just a few miles east along Route 22 at Fisher Field, which Goodman has been attempting to emulate in recent years, but without much success. Graphics, color, music, activities, aisle vendors...

That's a good point. Those vendors can be counted as attendance in games when Lehigh doesn't come to town. xlolx

[carney2]

http://goprincetontigers.blogspot.com/2011/01/changes-big-and-small.html



Lifting the postseason Ivy League ban is still, as ever, on the minds of fans. The question is: are the Presidents listening? xnonono2x

C'mon, LFN, this borders on yellow journalism. Your tag line makes it sound as if Princeton - the University; the Office of the President; the administration - has come out in favor of joining the FCS playoffs. Instead, it's some blogger like you.

[Franks Tanks]

That's a good point. Those vendors can be counted as attendance in games when Lehigh doesn't come to town. xlolx

It would only increase our attendance lead over you guys.

[Go...gate]

The concourse at Tiger Stadium, regrettably, has all the panache of a state prison. The food at the concessions is OK but the place could use some color, to be sure. Maybe some hawkers up and down the aisles. I know for a fact that a proposal to run some of those great outdoor Princeton Art Museum films on a big screen in the stadium concourse was ignored.

But to look to Goodman for stylistic cues? Not. The answer is just a few miles east along Route 22 at Fisher Field, which Goodman has been attempting to emulate in recent years, but without much success. Graphics, color, music, activities, aisle vendors - none of it over the top of course, but just right for the setting.

Princeton Stadium is an incredible feat of architecture, of course. One just gets the impression that it isn't quite finished yet.

FWIW, it is not - it was designed to add another 3 - 8,000 seats, and perhaps more. I represented the Township in connection with the zoning application.

[OL FU]

I know it is fun to talk about but does anyone seriously believe the ancient 8 will ever participate in the FCS Playoffs?

[Bogus Megapardus]

FWIW, it is not - it was designed to add another 3 - 8,000 seats, and not more. I represented the Township in connection with the zoning application.

Would those seats be at the south end, above where the track is located? On either side of the north endzone upper level?

[MplsBison]

I know it is fun to talk about but does anyone seriously believe the ancient 8 will ever participate in the FCS Playoffs?

I'm not interested in letting them in the FCS playoffs. They don't participate in the division as it's meant to be. Neither do the PFL or SWAC.

[BlueHenSinfonian]

I'm not interested in letting them in the FCS playoffs. They don't participate in the division as it's meant to be. Neither do the PFL or SWAC.

The PFL scheduled some good OOC this past year, and they are on track to do it again next year, I have no problem with them. The Ivies and the SWAC seem to limit their OOC schedule to the PL and the MEAC respectively, with the occasional FBS game (SWAC) or regional NE school (Ivy) thrown in for good measure, that has plenty of room for improvement.

[Go...gate]

Would those seats be at the south end, above where the track is located? On either side of the north endzone upper level?

Yep. I doubt it will ever happen, but maybe for an NCAA Soccer or Lacrosse final....?

[bonarae]

http://goprincetontigers.blogspot.com/2011/01/changes-big-and-small.html

Lifting the postseason Ivy League ban is still, as ever, on the minds of fans. The question is: are the Presidents listening? xnonono2x

Maybe not in our lifetimes? xchinscratchx xsmhx


The Ivy presidents don't care what anybody thinks. Ivy and PL presidents feel they can defy logic when it comes to football.

They shouldn't. The NCAA should give them words of positivism and encouragement on how they can benefit from more national exposure by participating in the playoffs.


I wonder if the Ivy requested a bid if the NCAA would give them the same kind of hard time as the PFL.... As in make them request a bid multiple times, upgrade the schedule to include 11 games, schedule more games against non-PL, NEC, PFL, competition, etc.... The Ivy does not have the same problem as the PFL relative to lower division games.... My guess is that the NCAA would have have chapped lips for all of the you know what kissing if the Ivy decided to grace the playoffs with their presense. Just another indication of the outright corruption that is tolerated in the NCAA....

Trudat. :(


Agreed. The playoffs would be a much bigger deal and much better publicized if the SWAC, Ivy and PFL participated. The more people interested, the better.

The SWAC not joining makes financial sense - can't knock them for it.
The Ivy not joining is nothing more than an elitist attitude.
The PFL not being given an AQ is stupid and will change, just a matter of time.

Right.


In the Ivy presidential mindset, it's still H-Y-P > Playoffs

Should new leadership that is pro-athletics comes into any Ivy school, the first thing he/she should focus on is to restore football to its former glory. The presidents we have had recently are quite anti-athletics (and anti-football in particular). xconfusedx


I can. The playoffs are the defining aspect of FCS football. If the SWAC can't find a way to participate and make the money work (like every other school does) then they should drop down to Div II.

I agree. The Ivy situation is actually very similar to the SWAC situation - the Ivies value their H/Y, Y/P, etc, games more than the playoffs, and don't want to somehow 'devalue' these end of season games, much like the SWAC feels their meaningless classics matter more than the playoffs. I understand the history behind some of the ancient Ivy rivalries, but no one is saying they have to stop playing them, they just have to be open to the idea of allowing one team per year to participate in the post season. Again - the FCS means playoffs, if a school thinks the playoffs aren't for them, they should find another level of football to play.

I agree, the JU Dolphins should have been in the field this year. Given that non-(or limited depending on your POV)-scholarship Lehigh actually pulled off an upset this year, who knows what Jacksonville could have done. The PFL should be looked on as a model by other conferences. Many of their schools have very low budgets (the SWAC argument against participating - "We need the classic money to survive") as well as high academic standards (the Ivy argument - "The playoffs interfere with exams") yet the PFL is actively seeking the chance to participate.

True. See my reply to an earlier post above.


The difference between the SWAC and most other schools is that the SWAC has the history, organization and fanbase to make money outside the playoffs. Most, if not all, other FCS schools do not, so its hard to compare. Apples and Oranges.

Apples and Oranges? Imagine if the Ivy League schools are also organizing SWAC-type Classics. Would they make money out of them? Probably not. But maybe some more exposure outside the limiting 10-game schedule.


Just because they can doesn't mean they should. It's time to force the hand of both the SWAC and the Ivy League. If they want to participate as FCS programs, they need to participate in all aspects of the FCS, including the playoffs. If it's their choice not to participate fully as FCS programs, they should choose another division or organization in which to play football.

Yes! Indeed!


It's not a NCAA requirement of any school to participate in the post-season. Notre Dame declined bowl games for 50 years and no one called for them to go to Division II.

Hmmm... when was the first time the Fighting Irish actually went into a bowl? Maybe the Ivy presidents should know about this fact.


While the environment is certainly different in FBS vs FCS, I can't say that I agree with a team declining a bowl invitation either. Still, the only bowls that really mean anything are the big four, all of the others are consolation prizes. Whichever bowl happens to be the BCS championship is really the only one that you can draw an analogue to for the FCS playoffs, and I don't think anyone would this day in age ever turn down an invite to the BCS championship, which is effectively what the SWAC and Ivy League do every year at the FCS level.

Perhaps the NCAA should change the rules and make postseason play mandatory if a team qualifies. If the team doesn't show up for the game that they are scheduled to play they earn an automatic forfeit and a loss on the record.

Yes, they should change the rules.


The PFL scheduled some good OOC this past year, and they are on track to do it again next year, I have no problem with them. The Ivies and the SWAC seem to limit their OOC schedule to the PL and the MEAC respectively, with the occasional FBS game (SWAC) or regional NE school (Ivy) thrown in for good measure, that has plenty of room for improvement.

The scheduling is another big problem for Ivy football because the neighboring schools have dropped football, are unwilling to play us anymore because we are "cupcakes", or play in Division III. Playoff participation should be #1 in the Ivy football wishlist.

[OL FU]

I'm not interested in letting them in the FCS playoffs. They don't participate in the division as it's meant to be. Neither do the PFL or SWAC.

The "as it's meant to be" has way to much personal bias. As you would like for it to be is probably more descriptive. They participate because the rules of the NCAA put them and the PFL and the SWAC in this subdivision.

[DFW HOYA]

Hmmm... when was the first time the Fighting Irish actually went into a bowl? Maybe the Ivy presidents should know about this fact.

Cotton Bowl, 1970.

[bulldog10jw]

I would be happy if we got an 11th game. That is actually more realistic than playoff participation, IMO.

[bulldog10jw]

Hmmm... when was the first time the Fighting Irish actually went into a bowl? Maybe the Ivy presidents should know about this fact

xlolx

Oh, your serious. xchinscratchx

[MplsBison]

The "as it's meant to be" has way to much personal bias. As you would like for it to be is probably more descriptive. They participate because the rules of the NCAA put them and the PFL and the SWAC in this subdivision.

Just being in the division by technicality is not good enough to qualify for participation in my book.

[JohnStOnge]

The simple solution would be to amend the by-laws and eliminate the 50% at-large requirement. With the field at 20, 6-8 at-large participants is more than sufficient.

Haven't read the whole thread so somebody might have already said this but now that the field is at 20 it's a five week tournament. With a five week tournament you could increase the field all the way up to 32. Or you could move to 24 and have 8 teams with first round byes. So they could have a >50% at large requirement and still include additional conferences without increasing the length of the tournament.

[DetroitFlyer]

Haven't read the whole thread so somebody might have already said this but now that the field is at 20 it's a five week tournament. With a five week tournament you could increase the field all the way up to 32. Or you could move to 24 and have 8 teams with first round byes. So they could have a >50% at large requirement and still include additional conferences without increasing the length of the tournament.

Yep, pretty much a complete no brainer to grant the PFL's request for an automatic bid.... Pure 100% NCAA corruption is the primary hold-up. Simply put, there is no justification for the NCAA to withhold a bid from the PFL period. The fact that the NCAA stuck it to the NEC for years is about the only possible justification.... It would not be "fair" to grant the PFL a bid unless we jerk them around for four or five years like we did to the NEC.... Heck, it might even be longer, because unlike the NEC, the PFL will not cave and use athletic scholarships as a bargaining chip. If there were any justice, the crooked bunch at the NCAA would be hauled into court and held personally liable for their actions.... Sadly, the NCAA has everyone by the you know whats, so everyone has to just take it....

[Franks Tanks]

Yep, pretty much a complete no brainer to grant the PFL's request for an automatic bid.... Pure 100% NCAA corruption is the primary hold-up. Simply put, there is no justification for the NCAA to withhold a bid from the PFL period. The fact that the NCAA stuck it to the NEC for years is about the only possible justification.... It would not be "fair" to grant the PFL a bid unless we jerk them around for four or five years like we did to the NEC.... Heck, it might even be longer, because unlike the NEC, the PFL will not cave and use athletic scholarships as a bargaining chip. If there were any justice, the crooked bunch at the NCAA would be hauled into court and held personally liable for their actions.... Sadly, the NCAA has everyone by the you know whats, so everyone has to just take it....

When did the PFL apply for a bid? I think every NCAA conferense should have an auto-bid to play in the post season as long as they meet the minimum criteria.

[danefan]

When did the PFL apply for a bid? I think every NCAA conferense should have an auto-bid to play in the post season as long as they meet the minimum criteria.

PFL applied in 2009 for a bid in 2011.

http://www.wkyt.com/wymtsports/headlines/61520037.html

But it doesn't look like its going so well according to Dayton's AD

http://www.springfieldnewssun.com/springfield-oh-sports/university-of-dayton-flyers/daytons-athletic-director-contributes-to-ncaa-selection-process-1036410.html


Dayton and Jacksonville, co-champs of the non-scholarship Pioneer Football League, were seriously considered for an at-large bid before being taken off the board, Wabler said. The PFL is the only FCS conference without an automatic bid, and Wabler wants that to change, although he said there currently doesn’t seem to be any movement to expand the playoffs or change the format.

[OL FU]

Just being in the division by technicality is not good enough to qualify for participation in my book.

I understand and the clarification of in your book is important.xthumbsupx

[Big Al]

Haven't read the whole thread so somebody might have already said this but now that the field is at 20 it's a five week tournament. With a five week tournament you could increase the field all the way up to 32. Or you could move to 24 and have 8 teams with first round byes. So they could have a >50% at large requirement and still include additional conferences without increasing the length of the tournament.

Correct, but adding games does add cost. Reducing the number of at-large bids would allow more conferences to participate without increasing playoff costs.

[Big Al]

Pure 100% NCAA corruption is the primary hold-up. Simply put, there is no justification for the NCAA to withhold a bid from the PFL period.

While I agree the PFL should get a bid, blaming it on corruption in the NCAA is a silly idea. The rules that the NCAA enforces are made and voted on by all it's member institutions.

[MplsBison]

Yep, pretty much a complete no brainer to grant the PFL's request for an automatic bid.... Pure 100% NCAA corruption is the primary hold-up. Simply put, there is no justification for the NCAA to withhold a bid from the PFL period. The fact that the NCAA stuck it to the NEC for years is about the only possible justification.... It would not be "fair" to grant the PFL a bid unless we jerk them around for four or five years like we did to the NEC.... Heck, it might even be longer, because unlike the NEC, the PFL will not cave and use athletic scholarships as a bargaining chip. If there were any justice, the crooked bunch at the NCAA would be hauled into court and held personally liable for their actions.... Sadly, the NCAA has everyone by the you know whats, so everyone has to just take it....

Send them back to DIII...please god.

[DFW HOYA]

Send them back to DIII...please god.

Except that much of the core membership of the PFL were former Division II football schools, not III.

[DetroitFlyer]

While I agree the PFL should get a bid, blaming it on corruption in the NCAA is a silly idea. The rules that the NCAA enforces are made and voted on by all it's member institutions.

Hmmmm.... I thought the NCAA was just some evil organization based in Iran.... Let me rephrase my thought for you, the folks that make up the NCAA are corrupt. It is primarily about money. In the case of the PFL, it may not be primarily about money.... It is about the "member institutions" not wanting to explain to their school communities that a league can be successful WITHOUT athletic scholarships. Come to think of it, maybe even the PFL's situation is about money.... The PFL meets all requirements for an autobid and has for YEARS! There is ABSOLUTELY no justification for denying an autobid that holds any water. None, zippo, zero. The only possible explanation is pure corruption. An organization wielding power simply because they can....

[DFW HOYA]

The PFL meets all requirements for an autobid and has for YEARS! There is ABSOLUTELY no justification for denying an autobid that holds any water. None, zippo, zero. The only possible explanation is pure corruption. An organization wielding power simply because they can....

The NCAA organization doesn't make these decisions, it is a vote of the I-AA conference representatives. Look there first.

[MplsBison]

Except that much of the core membership of the PFL were former Division II football schools, not III.

News to me, I understood the PFL to be those DIII schools that were forced into the FCS because they had DI basketball.

[MplsBison]

The NCAA organization doesn't make these decisions, it is a vote of the I-AA conference representatives. Look there first.

And hopefully those representatives will do the correct thing: keep the PFL out of the FCS playoffs until they start actually participating in the division.

[UAalum72]

News to me, I understood the PFL to be those DIII schools that were forced into the FCS because they had DI basketball.

Actually they are all Division I schools whose football teams were forced into FCS.

[401ks]

And hopefully those representatives will do the correct thing: keep the PFL out of the FCS playoffs until they start actually participating in the division.

Yeah!

That's the ticket...

Don't let them participate until they participate!!!

xnutsx

[MplsBison]

Yeah!

That's the ticket...

Don't let them participate until they participate!!!

xnutsx

You can still get an at-large bid to the playoffs. Your teams simply aren't good enough to deserve one.

And until they start playing more FCS teams from more FCS conferences (ie, participating in the division), they don't deserve an auto-bid.

[401ks]

You can still get an at-large bid to the playoffs. Your teams simply aren't good enough to deserve one.

And until they start playing more FCS teams from more FCS conferences (ie, participating in the division), they don't deserve an auto-bid.

xbangx

I know that I'm going to regret this, but...

2010 PFL OOC FCS opponents:

Appalachian State
James Madison
Western Illinois
Old Dominion X 2
Montana State
Lehigh
Southern Utah
UC Davis
Youngstown State
Georgetown X 2
Bucknell
Sacred Heart
Georgia State X 2
Presbyterian
Robert Morris
Duquesne
St. Francis

The PFL needs more FCS for the almighty MplsBison to give his blessing???

xblahblahx

[401ks]

News to me...

Is there anything that isn't news to you???

xlolx

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Is there anything that isn't news to you???

xlolx

You must spread around more reputation.... xlolx

Seriously, the PFL ought to have an autobid into the playoffs. The more participation in the playoffs, the better. And what people don't realize is when the PFL gets an autobid, the whole league will get better and benefit. xthumbsupx

[DetroitFlyer]

You can still get an at-large bid to the playoffs. Your teams simply aren't good enough to deserve one.

And until they start playing more FCS teams from more FCS conferences (ie, participating in the division), they don't deserve an auto-bid.

Well all knowing FCS expert, please show me where this is a requirement for an autobid to the FCS playoffs...? Of course our friend 401ks has once again demonstrated that even though this is not a requirement, the PFL is playing more games against traditional FCS teams every year.... Do you ever get tired of being spanked on this board time and time again?

[MplsBison]

xbangx

I know that I'm going to regret this, but...

2010 PFL OOC FCS opponents:

Appalachian State
James Madison
Western Illinois
Old Dominion X 2
Montana State
Lehigh
Southern Utah
UC Davis
Youngstown State
Georgetown X 2
Bucknell
Sacred Heart
Georgia State X 2
Presbyterian
Robert Morris
Duquesne
St. Francis

The PFL needs more FCS for the almighty MplsBison to give his blessing???

xblahblahx

Ok, lets take a look at each school's non-conference schedule this season:

Butler:
Albion - DIII
Youngstown St - FCS full scholarship from traditional AQ
Taylor - NAIA

Cambell:
Virginia-Wise - NAIA
Old Dominion - FCS mid-scholarship(?) independent
Georgia State - first year FCS low-scholarship independent

Davidson:
Georgetown - FCS low-scholarship from traditional AQ
Lenoir-Rhyne - DII
Presbyterian - FCS mid-scholarship(?) from non-traditional AQ

Dayton:
Robert Morris - FCS mid-scholarship(?) from non-traditional AQ
Duquesne - FCS low-scholarship(?) from non-traditional AQ
Central St - DII

Drake:
Lehigh - FCS full scholarship from traditional AQ
Missouri S&T - DII
Montana St - FCS full scholarship from traditional AQ

Jacksonville:
Old Dominion - FCS mid-scholarship(?) independent
Appalachian State - FCS full scholarship from traditional AQ
Webber Intl - NAIA

Marist:
Sacred Heart - FCS low-scholarship(?) from non-traditional AQ
Bucknell - FCS low-scholarship from traditional AQ
Georgetown - FCS low-scholarship from traditional AQ

Morehead St:
James Madison - FCS full scholarship from traditional AQ
St Francis - FCS low-scholarship(?) from non-traditional AQ
Georgia St - first year FCS low-scholarship independent

San Diego:
Azuza Pacific - NAIA
Southern Utah - FCS mid-scholarship from non AQ
UC Davis - FCS full scholarship from non AQ

Valpo:
Western Ill - FCS full scholarship from traditional AQ
Franklin - DIII
St Joe's - DII



It's better than I thought and congrats on getting a few quality match-ups. But here are the results for those few quality games:

Butler - YSU - Loss 31-7
Drake - Lehigh - Loss 28-14
Drake - Montana St - Loss 48-21
Jacksonville - App St - Loss 45-14
Morehead St - James Madison - Loss 48-7
Valpo - Western Ill - Loss 45-0


So out of 30 non-conference games, only 6 were against full scholarship, FCS teams from the traditional AQ conferences. And of those 6, all but one were blowout losses.


Again, better than I thought and congrats on the six good match-ups. Get more of those and be more competitive in them and you have a case for an AQ.

Until then, the correct position is that PFL does not deserve an AQ.

[401ks]

xcoffeex

Let's see...

The college football world according to MplsBison:

BCS / FBS
Non-BCS / FBS
FCS full-scholarship from traditional AQ conference
FCS mid-scholarship from traditional AQ conference
FCS low-scholarship from traditional AQ conference
FCS full-scholarship from non-traditional AQ conference
FCS mid-scholarship from non-traditional AQ conference
FCS low-scholarship from non-traditional AQ conference
FCS full-scholarship from non-AQ conference
FCS mid-scholarship from non-AQ conference
FCS low-scholarship from non-AQ conference
FCS non-scholarship from non-AQ conference
FCS full-scholarship independent
FCS mid-scholarship independent
FCS low-scholarship independent
FCS non-scholarship independent
Division II
Division III
NAIA

WHEW! Did I miss any?

Of course, all of this is moot because as DetroitFlyer stated so directly:


Well all knowing FCS expert, please show me where this is a requirement for an autobid to the FCS playoffs...?

God Bless America!

MplsBison proves once again that in this great country of ours, everyone is entitled to express his/her opinion no matter how demonstrably wrong that opinion may be!

MplsBison, you should start a thread entitled: "Georgia State is a crummy low-scholarship independent program that doesn't belong in the FCS"

Or how about this one: "The Big South is not a "traditional" FCS AQ conference so that means that it sucks!"

Or maybe (along those same lines): "The Northeast Conference is not a "traditional" FCS AQ conference so that means that it doesn't count for anything!"

Or maybe: "The Great West deserved to die because they suck!"

;)

Thank you for my Sunday Morning Chuckle, MplsBison. For a moment there I almost thought that you were serious!

xsmileyclapx

[MplsBison]

xcoffeex

Let's see...

The college football world according to MplsBison:

BCS / FBS
Non-BCS / FBS
FCS full-scholarship from traditional AQ conference
FCS mid-scholarship from traditional AQ conference
FCS low-scholarship from traditional AQ conference
FCS full-scholarship from non-traditional AQ conference
FCS mid-scholarship from non-traditional AQ conference
FCS low-scholarship from non-traditional AQ conference
FCS full-scholarship from non-AQ conference
FCS mid-scholarship from non-AQ conference
FCS low-scholarship from non-AQ conference
FCS non-scholarship from non-AQ conference
FCS full-scholarship independent
FCS mid-scholarship independent
FCS low-scholarship independent
FCS non-scholarship independent
Division II
Division III
NAIA

WHEW! Did I miss any?

Of course, all of this is moot because as DetroitFlyer stated so directly:



God Bless America!

MplsBison proves once again that in this great country of ours, everyone is entitled to express his/her opinion no matter how demonstrably wrong that opinion may be!

MplsBison, you should start a thread entitled: "Georgia State is a crummy low-scholarship independent program that doesn't belong in the FCS"

Or how about this one: "The Big South is not a "traditional" FCS AQ conference so that means that it sucks!"

Or maybe (along those same lines): "The Northeast Conference is not a "traditional" FCS AQ conference so that means that it doesn't count for anything!"

Or maybe: "The Great West deserved to die because they suck!"

;)

Thank you for my Sunday Morning Chuckle, MplsBison. For a moment there I almost thought that you were serious!

xsmileyclapx

You could've saved ~200 words or so if you'd have just said the truth: "I greatly oversold the PFL non conference schedule and I can't think of a good counter-arguement for why the PFL deserves an AQ".

[Ivytalk]

One would think that, with the rampant mediocrity in Harvard men's sports teams this century except for football (which has won at least 7 games every year since 2000), Harvard president Faust -- a rampant mediocrity herself -- would seize the chance to allow FB playoff participation to give the one program with a shot at excellence to prove itself.

But no.xsmhx

And my alumni wallet remains zipped.xnottalkingx