Southland expansion talk

[TSUalum05]

There are plenty of schools within Texas, Arkansas, and Louisiana that could potentially jump to D1. Now realistically, in todays current climate with public education receiving mass cut backs in Louisiana, Texas its going may be difficult for let's say a West Texas AM or Tarlenton State to move up because of the newly instituted fee. Also, whatever University that joins also has to consider other schools potentially leaving the conference as well. Interesting situation to say the least. Here's the article;

Southland Conference school presidents will meet Friday at Dallas, and one of the items on their agenda surely will be conference realignment.

Texas State and Texas-San Antonio are on their way out after accepting invitations to join the Western Athletic Conference in November. Their membership in the WAC will become effective July 1, 2012.

The San Antonio Express-News reported Friday that the WAC is considering adding more members, and commissioner Karl Benson said additions could be announced as soon as April 1. The Express-News reported through multiple sources that the list of candidates numbers at least six schools, including Sam Houston State and Lamar.

League commissioner Tom Burnett said Thursday it would not be proper to discuss possible departures until any action was taken, but he expects the presidents will likely take all developments into consideration.

“We certainly will review the entire situation, (including) what we know, probably begin dialogue on what’s a little more uncertain at this point, which would be the future and what the conference plans to do,” Burnett said.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/college/7384654.html

[TexasTerror]

We got a whole thread on this elsewhere... Mods, please merge!

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?75364-Foregone-Conclusion-SLC-Expansion-Discussion

We also talk about the possibility for the WAC taking some more from the Southland on another thread...

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?80982-WAC-Reviewing-Several-FCS-Options-for-Expansion

In addition, I speculate that Benson is throwing out names to show that he is doing whatever it takes to stabilize the league. SHSU is a few years off from having their house in order for a move to FBS, as is the case with Lamar.

If those schools leave, the SLC will have to expand to include Division II members from the LSC, likely Tarleton State at the top of the list. If not, the Southland is perfectly fine with an 8/10 model. The league has no reason to expand now and its hand is not forced. We surely do not need to add non-football members, with the exception of Oral Roberts and UALR, if they become available.

[Purple Pride]

There aren't any in Arkansas.

[chrisattsu]

They will need to make a pretty convincing argument to pull in the D2 schools from the Lone Star Conference.

1. The league has condensed to a Texas-only footprint.
2. Million Dollar application fee will cause many of these schools to tap their brakes
3. Numerous teams ranked in the D2 top-25 in every sport makes the rivalries fun
3. LSC Commish is bringing the Basketball Conference tournament to the Metroplex (Katy will do very little for the schools west I-35)
4. All-day Football festival at JerryWorld (3 games back to back) starting this fall

[TSUalum05]

They will need to make a pretty convincing argument to pull in the D2 schools from the Lone Star Conference.

1. The league has condensed to a Texas-only footprint.
2. Million Dollar application fee will cause many of these schools to tap their brakes
3. Numerous teams ranked in the D2 top-25 in every sport makes the rivalries fun
3. LSC Commish is bringing the Basketball Conference tournament to the Metroplex (Katy will do very little for the schools west I-35)
4. All-day Football festival at JerryWorld (3 games back to back) starting this fall

Damn -- maybe better for those schools to stay in D2. In my opinion, going from a D2 power to just another D1 may not be the best move.

[chrisattsu]

Damn -- maybe better for those schools to stay in D2. In my opinion, going from a D2 power to just another D1 may not be the best move.

When Tarleton looked at SLC membership in 2005, it looked like a smart move. They had finally come into their own within the league and they were growing as an institution. They were coming off 3 Divisional Titles in Football in 5 years (and an upset of Sam Houston in 2004), and Men's basketball had 4 NCAA appearance (with deep runs) and a Number 1 ranking. That being said, facilities were not up to pair with what Central Arkansas and Corpus had to offer.

Since that time, the Commish has done quite a bit to enhance the league. The basketball tourney has been in a neutral location for the past few years, our prominent teams have been featured on CBS-College Sports National Game of the Week, and they finally removed the schools that were not committed to improving the league. Now the league is setup like a mini-Southwest Conference and everyone is excited.

I have also heard rumblings that consolidated footprint makes a TV deal (similar to the SLC) more desirable to advertisers. The league has teams in the large-to-mid sized markets DFW, San Antonio, Corpus (and Rio Grand Valley), Amarillo, Abilene, San Angelo, Waco/Temple/Killeen, and Wichita Falls Markets.


Then again, I could be way off base. The Abilene Christian fans reported that their administration is discussing a possible move when the TXST and UTSA announcements came. If that were to happen, you might see several schools trying to come on board in an attempt to not be left behind similar to what happened with the WAC this summer.

[TSUalum05]

When Tarleton looked at SLC membership in 2005, it looked like a smart move. They had finally come into their own within the league and they were growing as an institution. They were coming off 3 Divisional Titles in Football in 5 years (and an upset of Sam Houston in 2004), and Men's basketball had 4 NCAA appearance (with deep runs) and a Number 1 ranking. That being said, facilities were not up to pair with what Central Arkansas and Corpus had to offer.

Since that time, the Commish has done quite a bit to enhance the league. The basketball tourney has been in a neutral location for the past few years, our prominent teams have been featured on CBS-College Sports National Game of the Week, and they finally removed the schools that were not committed to improving the league. Now the league is setup like a mini-Southwest Conference and everyone is excited.

I have also heard rumblings that consolidated footprint makes a TV deal (similar to the SLC) more desirable to advertisers. The league has teams in the large-to-mid sized markets DFW, San Antonio, Corpus (and Rio Grand Valley), Amarillo, Abilene, San Angelo, Waco/Temple/Killeen, and Wichita Falls Markets.


Then again, I could be way off base. The Abilene Christian fans reported that their administration is discussing a possible move when the TXST and UTSA announcements came. If that were to happen, you might see several schools trying to come on board in an attempt to not be left behind similar to what happened with the WAC this summer.

Thanks for the info.

[brocal]

If those schools leave, the SLC will have to expand to include Division II members from the LSC, likely Tarleton State at the top of the list.

Honestly, outside of the possible ACU move, I don't think any other LSC teams have any desire whatsoever to move to FCS.

With the direction both leagues are currently moving, I don't think any of them see that as even a remote possibility. Especially Tarleton...their new Prez wants nothing to do with moving up. A&M-Commerce did some looking into it a couple of months ago and came out of that, like the others, not seeing any benefit to the added budget needed to make a move. In fact, if you ask them off the record, if you take money completely out of the equation they think they are still in a better position in the LSC.

[DG Cowboy]

I don't think SLC Commissioner Tom Burnett is idly sitting around saying "Woe is me". When it is time for action, I believe he'll have a plan.

[brocal]

I don't think SLC Commissioner Tom Burnett is idly sitting around saying "Woe is me". When it is time for action, I believe he'll have a plan.

I agree. I'm sure he has plans he's working on nonstop with this stuff.

After reading thru a lot of the posts on here regarding this, it just seems a lot of the SLC fans just think if they get desperate they can reach down and pull up the LSC teams. But that's not going to be an option. They're not interested.

[Dallas Demon]

When Tarleton looked at SLC membership in 2005, it looked like a smart move. They had finally come into their own within the league and they were growing as an institution. They were coming off 3 Divisional Titles in Football in 5 years (and an upset of Sam Houston in 2004), and Men's basketball had 4 NCAA appearance (with deep runs) and a Number 1 ranking. That being said, facilities were not up to pair with what Central Arkansas and Corpus had to offer.

Since that time, the Commish has done quite a bit to enhance the league. The basketball tourney has been in a neutral location for the past few years, our prominent teams have been featured on CBS-College Sports National Game of the Week, and they finally removed the schools that were not committed to improving the league. Now the league is setup like a mini-Southwest Conference and everyone is excited.

I have also heard rumblings that consolidated footprint makes a TV deal (similar to the SLC) more desirable to advertisers. The league has teams in the large-to-mid sized markets DFW, San Antonio, Corpus (and Rio Grand Valley), Amarillo, Abilene, San Angelo, Waco/Temple/Killeen, and Wichita Falls Markets.


Then again, I could be way off base. The Abilene Christian fans reported that their administration is discussing a possible move when the TXST and UTSA announcements came. If that were to happen, you might see several schools trying to come on board in an attempt to not be left behind similar to what happened with the WAC this summer.

Regardless of whether they stay or not, Tarleton needs/deserves a new football stadium and lighting. The current one is really lacking.

[TexasTerror]

I am curious what has come out of the recently completed SLC Board of Directors meetings...

Was expansion even discussed? I am fine with an 8/10 format. Would prefer it was 9/10, so each school could get eight conference games (four home, four away). Must admit to liking a straight home-and-home arrangement in hoops. Hopefully, this brings back travel partners!

[WestCoastAggie]

TT or anyone else who has knowledge of the SLC and it's happenings:

WHO STARTED THE RUMOR OF THE SOUTHLAND LOOKING TO INVITE FAMU?

[TexasTerror]

TT or anyone else who has knowledge of the SLC and it's happenings:

WHO STARTED THE RUMOR OF THE SOUTHLAND LOOKING TO INVITE FAMU?

I am not sure... superman was the first person to contact me about it and I have not seen anything about it from any other source. Just does not make much sense to me, but what do I know?

[superman7515]

Sent you a PM WCA.

[WestCoastAggie]

Sent you a PM WCA.

Thanks for the clarification!

[DG Cowboy]

There aren't any in Arkansas.

Passed by Arkansas Tech on my vacation, and I was wondering what their long-term athletic plans are? Could be a good pairing for road trips to UCA, if Tech would move to FCS. Is Henderson State a more viable FCS candidate down the line?

PP? UCABEAR?

[Purple Pride]

Henderson would be a better bet. Them and Tech are the only decent D2 teams in Arkansas. The others flat-out suck.

[TexasTerror]

Henderson would be a better bet. Them and Tech are the only decent D2 teams in Arkansas. The others flat-out suck.

What is the funding like for those schools? Seems Southern Arkansas and Arkansas-Monticello are hurting the most as far as funds. Would that be correct? This D2 league of Okie and Arkie schools is a good fit...

[TheRevSFA]

It might not mean anything, but SLC TV is picking up markets out in West Texas. To be honest, I can't think of anyone in Abilene looking to watch NW State vs McNeese in football...

[Sec310]

The WAC board says UTA will accept a WAC invitation next week. So the Southland will lose two teams by 2012 and maybe three, depending when UTA goes to the WAC. Though UTA didn't play football, their long range plans COULD mean adding football.

[panama]

They already have a football stadium and now have an incentive since they are already in an FBS conference. They have 33k students and are in the Metroplex. Sounds like a no brainer.

[T-Dog]

Word is that UTA will start football in 2016.

UTPA and Houston Baptist and the Southland need to get in contact with each other ASAP. The Great West is as good as dead and the Southland could use some new members. Both sides benefit.

[TexasTerror]

UTPA and Houston Baptist and the Southland need to get in contact with each other ASAP. The Great West is as good as dead and the Southland could use some new members. Both sides benefit.

The SLC already told HBU.... 'thanks, but no thanks'. UTPA has attempted membership on several occasions and been rejected.

The SLC has made it clear that they are fine with a 10-team league. Considering UT-Arlington was a non-football school, I would be interested if the league pursues Oral Roberts as a straight-up replacement. I am not sure if ORU would be interested, but it would be worth pursuing. As SLC Commish said, he was surprised by the schools that have inquired.

Whether ORU is interested or not... you then move on to any Div I schools. Does ULM move down in the next few years? Lowest budget in FBS and a failed student fee vote have them in a rough spot. If yes, that is your primary target for a football school. Abilene Christian actually may be before in HBU in the pecking order because of quality of facilities and athletic commitment.

HBU would be a convenient choice, but the league would need to put conditions on that membership. HBU is not a popular pick despite Houston location because of lack of resources - namely facilities.

[RabidRabbit]

The SLC already told HBU.... 'thanks, but no thanks'. UTPA has attempted membership on several occasions and been rejected.

The SLC has made it clear that they are fine with a 10-team league. Considering UT-Arlington was a non-football school, I would be interested if the league pursues Oral Roberts as a straight-up replacement. I am not sure if ORU would be interested, but it would be worth pursuing. As SLC Commish said, he was surprised by the schools that have inquired.

Whether ORU is interested or not... you then move on to any Div I schools. Does ULM move down in the next few years? Lowest budget in FBS and a failed student fee vote have them in a rough spot. If yes, that is your primary target for a football school. Abilene Christian actually may be before in HBU in the pecking order because of quality of facilities and athletic commitment.

HBU would be a convenient choice, but the league would need to put conditions on that membership. HBU is not a popular pick despite Houston location because of lack of resources - namely facilities.

I would think that UTPA has to thrilled with this development. They are the one D-I team that seems totally floundering in independence land. No other conference fits better.

ORU does very well in the Summit. Especially baseball. The only concern for ORU is the growing dominance of the Summit by the I-29 corridor teams, although ORU actually forms the southern end of that group.

Any more news about if UALR is being forced out of the Sunbelt due to no football. Do know that UALR and Summit are well aware of each other.

[TexasTerror]

I would think that UTPA has to thrilled with this development. They are the one D-I team that seems totally floundering in independence land. No other conference fits better.

The Southland would take Houston Baptist over UT-Pan American. Time and time again. UT-Pan American has a lot issues, possibly more than HBU and at least, HBU is in Houston and has committed to football. They probably are the most excited about this.


Any more news about if UALR is being forced out of the Sunbelt due to no football. Do know that UALR and Summit are well aware of each other.

UALR has communicated with the Summit League, I know that.

I doubt UALR has any immediate issues with staying in the Sun Belt. The only school that I could see having an immediate issue is ULM as I have stated before. They have a budget that is comparable to the Louisiana SLC schools, which lag behind the Texas schools in the league with a growing gap.

[TheBisonator]

The Southland would take Houston Baptist over UT-Pan American. Time and time again. UT-Pan American has a lot issues, possibly more than HBU and at least, HBU is in Houston and has committed to football. They probably are the most excited about this.



UALR has communicated with the Summit League, I know that.

I doubt UALR has any immediate issues with staying in the Sun Belt. The only school that I could see having an immediate issue is ULM as I have stated before. They have a budget that is comparable to the Louisiana SLC schools, which lag behind the Texas schools in the league with a growing gap.

If UALR ever went to the Summit, the conference would have to add a 12th member. Most, if not all DII moveups have been taken already (Neb-Omaha to Summit, NKU to the OVC). Maybe if the Summit wants to expand to 12 and UALR is there, they just bite the bullet and take back Chicago State?? Though I would be against this, CSU is about the worst academic school you can find. Kanye West even didn't want to stay there, if that tells you something.

I have historically been against the aida of the Summit taking in DII moveups, but there's one DII school that I would be OK with being in the Summit if they moved up: Central Missouri. They have a pretty big basketball arena (almost a BSA clone, but nicer), have an enrollment of about 12,000 students, and have very pro-athletics leadership. They also would enhance the Kansas City market, as they're only like 50 miles away from KC and have a HUGE alumni base there. But I think they like it in the MIAA.

The problem is that your 12th team may have to be a more eastern one, otherwise you may be splitting into north/south divisions instead. With UCM, you could have:

North:

NDSU
SDSU
Oakland
WIU
IPFW
IUPUI

South:

ORU
UALR
USD
UCM
UNO
UMKC

If the Summit takes back Chicago State, you could go west/east:

West

NDSU
SDSU
USD
UNO
UMKC
ORU

East

CSU
WIU
Oakland
IPFW
IUPUI
UALR

[Sec310]

The most logical thing for the SLC is add both ORU and UALR. UALR provides a travel partner with UCA. UALR would be stupid to join the Summit. ORU brings good facilities and a much better market than UTPA in podunk Texas.

[BearsCountry]

If UALR ever went to the Summit, the conference would have to add a 12th member. Most, if not all DII moveups have been taken already (Neb-Omaha to Summit, NKU to the OVC). Maybe if the Summit wants to expand to 12 and UALR is there, they just bite the bullet and take back Chicago State?? Though I would be against this, CSU is about the worst academic school you can find. Kanye West even didn't want to stay there, if that tells you something.

I have historically been against the aida of the Summit taking in DII moveups, but there's one DII school that I would be OK with being in the Summit if they moved up: Central Missouri. They have a pretty big basketball arena (almost a BSA clone, but nicer), have an enrollment of about 12,000 students, and have very pro-athletics leadership. They also would enhance the Kansas City market, as they're only like 50 miles away from KC and have a HUGE alumni base there. But I think they like it in the MIAA.

The problem is that your 12th team may have to be a more eastern one, otherwise you may be splitting into north/south divisions instead. With UCM, you could have:

North:

NDSU
SDSU
Oakland
WIU
IPFW
IUPUI

South:

ORU
UALR
USD
UCM
UNO
UMKC

If the Summit takes back Chicago State, you could go west/east:

West

NDSU
SDSU
USD
UNO
UMKC
ORU

East

CSU
WIU
Oakland
IPFW
IUPUI
UALR

UCM would be a very good additon to the Summit League. Only trouble is finding a football home. Another school in MIAA to keep an eye out for is Lindenwood. They just moved up to D2 from NAIA but they are in St. Charles, suburb of St. Louis, and are looking to keep growing their school.

[citdog]

SOUTHLAND EXPANSION? NOW WHERE DID I PUT MY SWORD?

[TexasTerror]

The most logical thing for the SLC is add both ORU and UALR. UALR provides a travel partner with UCA. UALR would be stupid to join the Summit. ORU brings good facilities and a much better market than UTPA in podunk Texas.

If I am the Southland, I approach schools in this order.

1) ULM - A football school in Louisiana, a former SLC member. They would be downgrading from FBS, but outside of name... there struggles are worse than most FBS.

2) UALR - A travel partner for UCA would be just what the Dr. ordered. Best basketball facility in the SLC upon its arrival in some eyes. Solidifies Arkansas. There would not be football anytime soon though.

3a, 3b) Texas Southern/Prairie View - why the hell not? Both schools are HBCUs in Houston and they have budgets that trump most of the SWAC. TxSo's football facility will be top five in all of FCS (thanks Dynamo) and could be a potential place to move to Div I football championship game to. If the SLC is interested in the Houston market and wants to add programs that have penetration (sorry HBU - you do not), this is the way to go.

4) Oral Roberts - a straight up non-football for non-football replacement for UT-Arlington. I still believe adding another football school should be a priority so that you present yourself from having a situation should Lamar (and/or SHSU) leave the league. ORU would allow league into Oklahoma market, but it still is a hike.

5) Abilene Christian - charter member of SLC; have expressed an off-and-on interest in making move to Div I. Decent facilities that would fit right in. Opens league to new market in Texas and perhaps serves as encouragement for future D2 upgrades in Texas that would be better moves than adding HBU or UT-Pan American.

6) Tarleton State - May as well. D2 school that originally had D1 in their plans. Many of the same virtues as ACU, plus is as close an option to getting back into DFW market for SLC.

7) Houston Baptist - I would not be too thrilled about this nor would many others, but if they are bringing football - why not? They are clearly still behind numerous other options, but it would be difficult to pass up a school that guarantees to add football. Put a condition in on this one that if they are not playing in the SLC by year #3 of joining the conference, they are OUT.

[Sly Fox]

By the time this shakeout finishes up, I am not sure the Southland will be a big step up from the SWAC. And I get the feeling some in PV & just west of UH would pitch a fit if their schools considered a PWC.

Now how smart was it that HBU made their intentions known in regard to football recently instead of playing catch-up now? I have to disagree with TT about HBU's position in the pecking order. I believe if Sloan made promises to deliver on facilities upfront, the league would have a hard time not looking at them before ACU & Tarleton. While the latter have tradition, the former has location, location, location and has already begun the transition into DI.

And I get the feeling ULM would shutter their football program before stepping back to the Southland. Nothing to substantiate that train of thought ... just a hunch.

[rocket]

An easy answer would be UNO, they're close to everyone else in the SLC, it would probably save them travel from their D2 conference, they'd probably be extremely happy to join, have decent facilities (especially for basketball) and they have a club football team that's moving up to D2 varsity status (also already can playing Tad gormley and are looking to build an on campus stadium). Not to mention that they'd probably average a decent amount of people with a high away fan attendance due to the fact that a weekend in New Orleans would be a great time out for most fans and a football game with their team is obviously an added bonus to that experience.

[3rd Coast Tiger]

3a, 3b) Texas Southern/Prairie View - why the hell not? Both schools are HBCUs in Houston and they have budgets that trump most of the SWAC. TxSo's football facility will be top five in all of FCS (thanks Dynamo) and could be a potential place to move to Div I football championship game to. If the SLC is interested in the Houston market and wants to add programs that have penetration (sorry HBU - you do not), this is the way to go.

Again... for the 17th time the SLC approached my alma mater and we turned them down. End of discussion as nothing has changed.

[TexasTerror]

Do not think travel costs is the issue for the school, Rocket.


By the time this shakeout finishes up, I am not sure the Southland will be a big step up from the SWAC. And I get the feeling some in PV & just west of UH would pitch a fit if their schools considered a PWC.

That would be an awful reality if the SLC is not a 'big step' from the SWAC. The TSU people have claimed the SLC has called them before, nothing wrong with calling them again! ;)


Now how smart was it that HBU made their intentions known in regard to football recently instead of playing catch-up now? I have to disagree with TT about HBU's position in the pecking order. I believe if Sloan made promises to deliver on facilities upfront, the league would have a hard time not looking at them before ACU & Tarleton. While the latter have tradition, the former has location, location, location and has already begun the transition into DI.

Need to see it... the location is one thing if you are the WAC trying to sell TV (see UT-Arlington and Seattle), but it is another if you are trying to find football schools and schools that 'enhance' your conference. Does HBU 'enhance' the Southland? Is Sloan going to be able to deliver? Is the league even open to adding a private school?


And I get the feeling ULM would shutter their football program before stepping back to the Southland. Nothing to substantiate that train of thought ... just a hunch.

ULM is struggling big time... we'll see what happens. I do not think they would move on down either, unless forced in the manner that UT-Pan American was. ULM was a school of convenience when they were added. Now they are a school that does not provide as much as far as enhancing the league.


Again... for the 17th time the SLC approached my alma mater and we turned them down. End of discussion as nothing has changed.

You never know... always worth it to give'em a call. Does not hurt in the least bit, though I can understand from a competition standpoint how TSU would not be interested - in addition to losing out on the annual match-ups against teams like Southern and Grambling that generate HBCU fan interest that would not come from playing Nicholls or N'western.

[LouiseBFree]

NOW THAT'S LAUGHABLE!!!!!

xlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolx

DREAM ON!!!! NEXT!!!


Again... for the 17th time the SLC approached my alma mater and we turned them down. End of discussion as nothing has changed.

[rocket]

Do not think travel costs is the issue for the school, Rocket.

No but they seem to getting past their issues, especially with switching university systems.The SLC would make the most sense for them and i for one would be thrilled to have them it lessens the travel costs for the whole conference (as opposed to having to travel to ACU in west Texas for every sport), it would be a good day out for the fans and they have pretty good facilities if we're talking southland conference expansion I dont really think it should be made just to "corner" a market (since lets face it no one is going to do that) but instead get a good fit for the conference and i for one would love to have them.

[Catatonic]

The SLC already told HBU.... 'thanks, but no thanks'. UTPA has attempted membership on several occasions and been rejected.

The SLC has made it clear that they are fine with a 10-team league. Considering UT-Arlington was a non-football school, I would be interested if the league pursues Oral Roberts as a straight-up replacement. I am not sure if ORU would be interested, but it would be worth pursuing. As SLC Commish said, he was surprised by the schools that have inquired.

Whether ORU is interested or not... you then move on to any Div I schools. Does ULM move down in the next few years? Lowest budget in FBS and a failed student fee vote have them in a rough spot. If yes, that is your primary target for a football school. Abilene Christian actually may be before in HBU in the pecking order because of quality of facilities and athletic commitment.

HBU would be a convenient choice, but the league would need to put conditions on that membership. HBU is not a popular pick despite Houston location because of lack of resources - namely facilities.

It is difficult to believe the SLC is not in near panic mode, public pronouncements aside. Three teams have bailed counting UTA. Two more schools (SHSU and Lamar) might well be the next to move up. That leaves a maximum of 8 football schools in the SLC even if SHSU and Lamar remain in the fold. A 7 game league schedule leaves 4 or so OOC games each year, a logistical challenge from scheduling perspective. For these reasons it is not much of a stretch to imagine the SLC, while it does not want to appear desperate in public, is not actively pursuing other options.

I am not sure whether the rumor has legs but it has been posted on the D2 board that the SLC has presented three members of the Lone Star Conference with an attractive offer to consider a move to the SLC as a group. This could be a baseless rumor, a fall-back position in the event that either or both SHSU and/or Lamar receive a bid to join the WAC, or an offer to offset the loss of Tx State and UTSA.


Whatever, all this speculation is an interesting way to fill time until fall practice begins. :)

[3rd Coast Tiger]

NOW THAT'S LAUGHABLE!!!!!

xlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolx

DREAM ON!!!! NEXT!!!

So are you saying I am lying?

[superman7515]

I was under the impression that Ron Artest was saying that it was laughable TSU would join.

[msusig]

I just can't see Sam Houston or Lamar moving up any time soon so here is a option:
East
McNeese State
Northwestern State
Southeastern LA
Nicholls State
Central Arkansas
Delta State
Ark-Little Rock or UNO (non-football)

West
SFA
Sam Houston St
Lamar
Tarleton St
Abilene Christian
West Texas A&M
Oral Roberts (non-football) or Univ of Central Oklahoma

[Cat79]

If I am the Southland, I approach schools in this order.

1) ULM - A football school in Louisiana, a former SLC member. They would be downgrading from FBS, but outside of name... there struggles are worse than most FBS.

2) UALR - A travel partner for UCA would be just what the Dr. ordered. Best basketball facility in the SLC upon its arrival in some eyes. Solidifies Arkansas. There would not be football anytime soon though.

3a, 3b) Texas Southern/Prairie View - why the hell not? Both schools are HBCUs in Houston and they have budgets that trump most of the SWAC. TxSo's football facility will be top five in all of FCS (thanks Dynamo) and could be a potential place to move to Div I football championship game to. If the SLC is interested in the Houston market and wants to add programs that have penetration (sorry HBU - you do not), this is the way to go.

4) Oral Roberts - a straight up non-football for non-football replacement for UT-Arlington. I still believe adding another football school should be a priority so that you present yourself from having a situation should Lamar (and/or SHSU) leave the league. ORU would allow league into Oklahoma market, but it still is a hike.

5) Abilene Christian - charter member of SLC; have expressed an off-and-on interest in making move to Div I. Decent facilities that would fit right in. Opens league to new market in Texas and perhaps serves as encouragement for future D2 upgrades in Texas that would be better moves than adding HBU or UT-Pan American.

6) Tarleton State - May as well. D2 school that originally had D1 in their plans. Many of the same virtues as ACU, plus is as close an option to getting back into DFW market for SLC.

7) Houston Baptist - I would not be too thrilled about this nor would many others, but if they are bringing football - why not? They are clearly still behind numerous other options, but it would be difficult to pass up a school that guarantees to add football. Put a condition in on this one that if they are not playing in the SLC by year #3 of joining the conference, they are OUT.

ULM is not moving down. The SLC had better focus on all of the others mentioned.

[TexasTerror]

ULM is not moving down. The SLC had better focus on all of the others mentioned.

I would not be so sure...

ULM has significant financial issues and is non-competitive across the board within the Sun Belt Conference. Their 'marriage' to the SBC was one of convenience when needed and one that has obviously brought down the league. The recent student fee failing - a complete opposite of what happened at Southeastern La. within a few week time frame sends up red flags.

[Catatonic]

I just can't see Sam Houston or Lamar moving up any time soon so here is a option:
East
McNeese State
Northwestern State
Southeastern LA
Nicholls State
Central Arkansas
Delta State
Ark-Little Rock or UNO (non-football)

West
SFA
Sam Houston St
Lamar
Tarleton St
Abilene Christian
West Texas A&M
Oral Roberts (non-football) or Univ of Central Oklahoma

This would make for an interesting conference, particularly if Texas A&M Kingsville could be added to this mix. Unfortunately, it is not a very probable outcome.

Supporters of Tarleton and West Texas A&M on the Lone Star Conference section of the D2 board have said the leadership of their schools do not favor moving up at this time, largely because of economic constraints. Abilene Christian and Incarnate Word are the only two Lone Star schools who have recently mentioned moving up, and ACU is in the midst of slashing its budget after a 6 million budget shortfall this year. I'm not sure about the economic situation at Incarnate Word.

[McTailGator]

Your forgot TAM-CC (Non Football). don't need Oral Roberts or UCO... IMHO

[DG Cowboy]

I feel Angelo State is a viable consideration, with a population of 90,000 in San Angelo. I think their location offers more economically for the SLC than Canyon/ Amarillo. If any Lone Star teams move up, I believe it will be as a package from within the group of Tarleton, ACU, West Texas A&M, Angelo State, and TAMU- Kingsville.

[TexasTerror]

I feel Angelo State is a viable consideration, with a population of 90,000 in San Angelo. I think their location offers more economically for the SLC than Canyon/ Amarillo. If any Lone Star teams move up, I believe it will be as a package from within the group of Tarleton, ACU, West Texas A&M, Angelo State, and TAMU- Kingsville.

I've heard some on Angelo State... but have not been able to verify.

[TheRevSFA]

Angelo State and ACU would be welcome. I think Ark Tech would be a good move except they are moving to the Great American Conference.

EAST: Nicholls, McNeese, SELA, NW State, UCA, Ark Tech, Oral Bob (non-football

WEST: SFA, Sam Houston, ACU, Angelo State, Lamar, Texas A&M-Kingsville, A&M-CC (non football)

[DFW HOYA]

Maybe the SLC needs to merge with the WAC, because if you dip any lower, it's becoming the LSC.

[TheRevSFA]

Maybe the SLC needs to merge with the WAC, because if you dip any lower, it's becoming the LSC.


I imagine that's going to happen at some point given the rate that we're going...or they'll take Sam and Lamar and SFA will go down to the LSC...

[TheRevSFA]

Well...looks like they are announcing it at 5pm. UTA to the WAC. If they take Lamar and Sam next then I shall refer to the WAC East as the Southland Division.

[TexasTerror]

If ULM was going to drop to the FCS division of football, it would've happened a long time ago.

For ULM - it is the cost of doing business, it has gone up.

While that has gone up, you could say that outside of guarantee games in football, most of their revenue streams are flat. Their student fee - if it would have passed - would have left them at the bottom of the budget food chain in the Sun Belt still, but nonetheless... it failed. They are the lowest funded FBS schools.


The WAC can't even steal members from the Sun Belt. If the WAC can't even steal Sun Belt schools, then the Southland (who is being raped by the WAC) definitely won't have that power. Cross #1 and #2 off your list. That's not going to happen. . . .EVER!

It's not about 'stealing' members, it is about...

1) ULM's financial woes and the Sun Belt finding better fruit to take from. Lest we forget, the SBC has booted a member before (UT-Pan Am)

2) UALR is strictly listed if something changes with the dynamics of the Sun Belt, as in they go all football. I think the SBC would not force UALR out in any other manner considering their long-term standing and the fact they are such a great travel partner in all sports with Ark State.


First off, the NCAA requirements to be FBS are not fully enforced. If an average 15,000 fans over a rolling two-year period really mattered, you would've seen downgrades by several schools who have not met that requirement. ULM has seen harder financial times than they do now, and there are schools in the FBS that are currently in a worse situation than ULM. Trust me when I say this. ULM is not going to move to the Southland. ULM is not going to move to the Championship Subdivision. Also, I am fully aware that ULM was a member of the Southland. I am also aware that ULM has been out of the Southland for 17 years! That's a decent chunk of time! Our nation has experienced more than one recession in the last 17 years. If ULM was going to drop to the FCS division, they wouldn't have waited 17 years or more to make that decision. The belief that their entrance into the Sun Belt was "a marriage of convenience" is a total crock. If it was a marriage of convenience for ULM, then it was a marriage of convenience for every other school that helped to form the football portion of the Sun Belt. ULM is a charter member of Sun Belt football. It's not a marriage of convenience. That is just bologna. They have a storm to weather, but it will not decimate their athletic department. They will remain in the highest division of college football unless there's a major change involving the Power $ix conferences.

Are you sure?

The Sun Belt needed schools and added independents Middle Tennessee, ULM and Idaho. MT was granted all sport membership while ULM joined Idaho as football only. Why is that?

The league needed members to build a football conference and the league did not necessarily view ULM as an ideal fit for all sports. La Tech was already out of the league in all sports at that point, so what is the excuse? It was not La Tech stopping them... was it?

[McTailGator]

<<Dude, you seriously need to come off your trip because ULM isn't going anywhere>>


Never say never when it comes to ULM.

[TexasTerror]

I get the feeling that you are secretly hoping that Louisiana-Monroe is forced back into the FCS probably so you don't have to fill alone in the woeful Southland Conference once Lamar makes their announcement next year that they are leaving. I get the feeling that you have a secret fetish for seeing Sun Belt teams step all the way down to the Southland so they can't claim some superior presence to your Sam Houston State. Terror, I don't think you understand the dynamics of the Football Bowl Subdivision. If ULM is forced into a lower division, then they'll go will about 70 other schools, but it will take a major shift in the NCAA landscape for that to happen. Your theories of rejected student fee increases being detrimental to ULM's FBS survival is actually quite laughable. ULM has done fine for 17 years without the help of student fees.

I've got nothing against the Sun Belt Conference, which I feel is a better league than the WAC.

ULM has done 'fine' for 17 years without the help of student fees? Since joining the Sun Belt for all sports, they have carved out a niche as the lowest-performing school athletically annually (amongst schools that sponsor at least 15 sports in the league - not going to count the Katrina waivered institution that left). 'Getting by' is not 'doing fine'.


You say the Sun Belt has better fruit to pick from? LIKE WHO? Unproven Texas State, Arlington, and San Antonio? Are you kidding me? The Sun Belt doesn't want the distinction of being that conference FCS schools moved to in order to get their start in the subdivision. The Sun Belt already did that with FIU and FAU, and the league's image suffered when it did that. That is, until FAU and FIU started showing people they could play. The Sun Belt doesn't need those Texas schools. You think the SBC is interested in Louisiana Tech? They would likely invite La Tech, if the school was interested, but Louisiana Tech isn't interested because of ULM's presence and the commissioner who their big-time donors despise. The Sun Belt isn't going to kick out ULM to appease Louisiana Tech.

I am well aware that the SBC does not want to be a conference with FCS upstarts, but I do feel the league is interested in La Tech. Would they kick out ULM to appease La Tech? Not at all, but ULM may have to make a decision on their own to abandon FBS. Of course... playing two guarantee games annually plus a "home game" in Little Rock may just suit their fancy, particularly when being a SBC member does not further any of their other sports.

And you really need to stop being a 'prick' on these boards and other boards... it's laughable you quote the Bible, when all you do is attack anyone who thinks differently than you on a host of message boards across the Internet.

[TheRevSFA]

Realistically, Lamar will get asked. Montana and Montana State won't go to the WAC and Benson will look eastward.....and it's going to suck for the rest of us left as the SLC, while not losing our football powerhouses, will still have the stigma of barely being above a DII conference..especially if we pull teams out of the Lone Star Conference.

This just has the makings of a bad time.

[DG Cowboy]

Woe is me. The SLC is dead. There is no hope. The sky is falling.

Here are the first ten members of the conference and the year they left: Abilene Christian College '72, Arkansas State' 87, Arlington St '12, Lamar Tech '87, Trinity '72, Louisiana Tech '87, USL '82, McNeese remains, North Texas '96, and Northeast Louisiana '05. Lamar came back, yet may again leave. ACU may come back.

My point is the conference started in 1963 and has gone through many changes, each of which had folks predicting its demise. Yet, many schools moved into the conference over the years and developed good FCS programs. Those would be Northwestern State, Sam Houston, SFA, Southwest Texas, Nicholls, Southeastern, UCA and non-FB UTSA and TAMU-CC.That is what will happen again IMHO.

Some feel they have outgrown the SLC and FCS, so best wishes and go. Some will feel they are ready to take a step up into the SLC, so welcome. The SLC will survive and move forward as what it is - a good, regional FCS conference.

If you want to forecast doom and gloom, do so. I choose to look at a solid model over 48 years, and believe the SLC will change and survive very well. Wherever the Cowboys are, I will be there too.

[TheRevSFA]

DG, trust me when I say SFA has not and will not outgrow the SLC. That being said..I'm more concerned about losing Sam Houston and Lamar.

I think that there are some good LSC schools that could move up (ACU, Angelo State) that could move...also Ark Tech or Oral Roberts (a dream..I know) for Basketball.

The SLC is already looked at as soft amongst FCS. I don't want it to look softer.

[DG Cowboy]

Rev,

I did not quote you because I was responding to the body of comments on here about the SLC going under. Your comments were much less negative than many others. I apologize if you took my remarks to be directed at you. They were not. They were universal. Keep the faith. We'll be OK.

DG

[TheRevSFA]

Rev,

I did not quote you because I was responding to the body of comments on here about the SLC going under. Your comments were much less negative than many others. I apologize if you took my remarks to be directed at you. They were not. They were universal. Keep the faith. We'll be OK.

DG

Didn't think they were fully directed at me but I have been concerned.

[DG Cowboy]

Funny, in the Lake Charles American-Press today there is a 25 Years Ago Today clip quoting McNeese Coach Jack Doland. He is saying the additon of Sam Houston, SFA, and Southwest Texas from the Gulf Star Conference would not dilute the quality of the SLC, and they would be good additions to the conference to keep the automatic bid to the playoffs. Deja vu all over again.

[TexasTerror]

McNeese AD viewpoint on UT-Arlington to the WAC and SLC expansion...


“I don’t want to see any knee-jerk reaction to the loss of those schools,” he said. “We just don’t want to add for the sake of adding numbers. We want to get the right schools and the right situation for all of us.

“We want quality, not just quantity.”

http://www.americanpress.com/lc/blogs/wpnewssum/?p=23854

[DG Cowboy]

Don't SIX teams constitute a viable FCS automatic bid conference? I count SFA, UCA, NW St, SLU, Nicholls, and McNeese without any additions, and projecting Sam and Lamar to leave to the WAC. I admit taking off both socks for that. I won't say what school was represented by my little toe.

[TheRevSFA]

The fact that the Bobcat Report claimed that Louisiana-Lafayette and North Texas were greatly interested in joining the WAC is a testament to the joke that comes from that sports page. You are correct that there's no one in the West interested in joining the WAC. For that reason, they have been lobbying for Sun Belt schools, but they aren't going to get them. That's why they are ravaging the Southland. I really feel this reality is what has this Texas Terror character feeling uncomfortable because when it's all said and done, the Southland may not even be able to hold onto FCS status which puts Sam Houston State in a serious bind. Especially with Sam Houston State not even being mentioned as an expansion candidate unlike Lamar (which will happen) and Stephen F. Austin (which I don't think will make the move).

Granted I can't speak for SFA, but I don't think there's even a way we could move. We don't have the budget for it now..perhaps if they did a drive like they did with Texas State - San Marcos but even then that's questionable. We do well in basketball since the coming of Kaspar and football is on the up..but we wouldn't jump.

However, Lamar is practically begging to get the chance.

[TexasTerror]

Brief remarks about UCO/Div I...


Webb said an upscale league is important if UCO ever considers going Division I. That would require a major financial commitment in football (I-AA), but the other sports could make the transition rather easily.

“We're gradually trying to build up our facilities,” Webb said. “If at some point in time UCO decided to go Division I in some sports, we probably need to be in a little more of a challenging area.”

That kind of talk won't make the good folks at Southwestern, Southeastern and East Central happy. They run solid programs, though success has been limited in the nearly 20 years since the Oklahoma schools joined the Lone Star.

Read more: http://newsok.com/oklahomas-ncaa-division-ii-schools-are-at-a-crossroads/article/3585957#ixzz1SDxwIGti

[TexasTerror]

SLC MB threads on schools and their thoughts on SLC expansion...

McNeese State (http://forums.delphiforums.com/geauxcowboys/messages/?msg=12418.1)
Nicholls 1 (http://forums.delphiforums.com/nicholls/messages/?msg=1718.1) - Nicholls 2 (http://forums.delphiforums.com/nicholls/messages/?msg=1718.1)
Northwestern State (http://forums.delphiforums.com/forkemdemons/messages/?msg=5406.1)
Sam Houston State (http://katfans.com/newforum/index.php?topic=2566.0)
Southeastern La. (http://forums.delphiforums.com/southeastern/messages/?msg=1244.1)
Stephen F. Austin (http://www.lumberjackfans.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=409)

[DG Cowboy]

Very well done, TT. The Sam Board is especially interesting, since this has been at the forefront since UTSA and TxSt began their move.

[Catatonic]

SLC MB threads on schools and their thoughts on SLC expansion...

McNeese State (http://forums.delphiforums.com/geauxcowboys/messages/?msg=12418.1)
Nicholls 1 (http://forums.delphiforums.com/nicholls/messages/?msg=1718.1) - Nicholls 2 (http://forums.delphiforums.com/nicholls/messages/?msg=1718.1)
Northwestern State (http://forums.delphiforums.com/forkemdemons/messages/?msg=5406.1)
Sam Houston State (http://katfans.com/newforum/index.php?topic=2566.0)
Southeastern La. (http://forums.delphiforums.com/southeastern/messages/?msg=1244.1)
Stephen F. Austin (http://www.lumberjackfans.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=409)

An interesting and fun read...

Loved the counter arguments to the notion that DII move ups would dilute the SLC....Turns out D2 teams have done quite well against SLC foes in the past few years and the last D2 move up (UCA) has dominated the teams of some of their supporters who put forth the "diluted league" argument.

SFA lost to Tarleton State in 2007 in OT and Delta State in 2006.

Sam lost to Tarleton State in 2003...

2006-2008 Central Arkansas owned SAm..

And I would add:

2007 ACU spanked Tx State at their house. Tx State was sufficiently humiliated that they cancelled a rematch the following year and went off in search of an easier opponent.

There are lots of valid arguments for and against D2 move ups. "Diluting the SLC" is not one of them.

[DG Cowboy]

Agree Catatonic. See my previous post of Coach Doland's quote in 1986.

Also, what has the SLC lost to date? One football school - TX ST. UTSA has never played a down of SLC football. Certainly UTA is not even in the football discussion. If Lamar goes, this would be their first year to compete in the SLC in FB. I believe Sam's best rival is SFA, and if SFA is staying, I feel there is a decent chance Sam will stay. IMHO.

[TheRevSFA]

An interesting and fun read...

Loved the counter arguments to the notion that DII move ups would dilute the SLC....Turns out D2 teams have done quite well against SLC foes in the past few years and the last D2 move up (UCA) has dominated the teams of some of their supporters who put forth the "diluted league" argument.

SFA lost to Tarleton State in 2007 in OT and Delta State in 2006.

Sam lost to Tarleton State in 2003...

2006-2008 Central Arkansas owned SAm..

And I would add:

2007 ACU spanked Tx State at their house. Tx State was sufficiently humiliated that they cancelled a rematch the following year and went off in search of an easier opponent.

There are lots of valid arguments for and against D2 move ups. "Diluting the SLC" is not one of them.

Those stats look oddly familiar. Some sort of Deja-Vu perhaps?

[Catatonic]

Those stats look oddly familiar. Some sort of Deja-Vu perhaps?

:)

Yup, like I said...I loved the counter arguments on the boards, especially on Sam's board....from which I cut/pasted recent records...other than the ACU vs Texas State section, which I added (prolly my ACU pride showing). I thought some those raising the same argument on here about downgrading the SLC could use a reality check. :)

[TheRevSFA]

Thanks for the ACU info...I like ACU coming to the SLC...on the lumberjackfans.com board I said that if I could put the conference together ACU would be there, along with A&M Kingsville.

[Catatonic]

Thanks for the ACU info...I like ACU coming to the SLC...on the lumberjackfans.com board I said that if I could put the conference together ACU would be there, along with A&M Kingsville.

Rev,

TAMUK, West TExas A&M and ACU are the three strongest football programs in the Lone Star Conference right now but programs like Tarleton, Angelo and Midwestern are building. Thanks for thinking about us. I have mixed feelings about a possible move but it is nice to be recognized as a worthy addition if it all works out.

[TheRevSFA]

Rev,

TAMUK, West TExas A&M and ACU are the three strongest football programs in the Lone Star Conference right now but programs like Tarleton, Angelo and Midwestern are building. Thanks for thinking about us. I have mixed feelings about a possible move but it is nice to be recognized as a worthy addition if it all works out.

With SLC TV having new markets out in West Texas...it makes me wonder still about where the conference is going. ACU is the natural pick I think...WTAMU and A&M kingsville are as well..but I picked Kingsville due to Geography.

[Catatonic]

TAMUK has a great football history dating back to the days when it was Texas A&I. Good attendance and community support. They would be a logical addition to the SLC based on the current geographic footprint of the SLC. I am not sure they have any interest in leaving D2 though....UIW has said from the beginning they would like to move up and they would bring the San Antonio market back to the conference.

[BEAR]

Rev,

TAMUK, West TExas A&M and ACU are the three strongest football programs in the Lone Star Conference right now but programs like Tarleton, Angelo and Midwestern are building. Thanks for thinking about us. I have mixed feelings about a possible move but it is nice to be recognized as a worthy addition if it all works out.

I enjoyed the mirror game with ACU. xlolx (for those of you who don't know what I'm talking about...UCA...ACU. xlolx

[TheRevSFA]

TAMUK has a great football history dating back to the days when it was Texas A&I. Good attendance and community support. They would be a logical addition to the SLC based on the current geographic footprint of the SLC. I am not sure they have any interest in leaving D2 though....UIW has said from the beginning they would like to move up and they would bring the San Antonio market back to the conference.

UIW does have some basketball cred seeing as how they beat the WAC bound Texas State University - San Marcos campus on their home court last season.

[dbackjon]

TAMUK has a great football history dating back to the days when it was Texas A&I. Good attendance and community support. They would be a logical addition to the SLC based on the current geographic footprint of the SLC. I am not sure they have any interest in leaving D2 though....UIW has said from the beginning they would like to move up and they would bring the San Antonio market back to the conference.

If Kingsville is a good geographical fit, UT-PA isn't that much further (100 miles)

[TheRevSFA]

If Kingsville is a good geographical fit, UT-PA isn't that much further (100 miles)

Well, with SLC basketball and travel partners, it makes sense in terms of having them be a travel partner with A&M-Corpus Christi as they are only about 45 miles apart

Also A&M-Kingsville has one of the best average attendance records in DII and a solid program. Why not try to get the best teams to move up...isn't that right Western Athletic Conference? :D

[dbackjon]

Well, with SLC basketball and travel partners, it makes sense in terms of having them be a travel partner with A&M-Corpus Christi as they are only about 45 miles apart

Also A&M-Kingsville has one of the best average attendance records in DII and a solid program. Why not try to get the best teams to move up...isn't that right Western Athletic Conference? :D

Very true about a travel partner for TAMU-CC.

Just hate to see UT-PA dangling out there...

[TheRevSFA]

Very true about a travel partner for TAMU-CC.

Just hate to see UT-PA dangling out there...

I try not to let my UT-PA dangle for too long...

[MylesKnight]

History questions....

Why exactly was UT-PA removed from the Sun Belt years ago?? And why is everyone so against the idea of the Broncs moving to the SLC? They are a long term D-I program who have had decent basketball at times in the past and actually draw quite well.

[dbackjon]

History questions....

Why exactly was UT-PA removed from the Sun Belt years ago?? And why is everyone so against the idea of the Broncs moving to the SLC? They are a long term D-I program who have had decent basketball at times in the past and actually draw quite well.


http://www.texnews.com/texsports97/utpa103097.html

Last fall, the NCAA refused to certify the university's athletics program, saying it has failed to operate in accordance with association standards. The school already was on a four-year probation.

UTPA became the first Division I school not to receive certification since the NCAA began the examination process in 1993.

The NCAA certification process examines an athletic department's academic and financial integrity, governance and commitment to rules compliance, and commitment to equity.

In the case of UTPA, the NCAA concluded the university had not exhibited adequate commitment to rules compliance.

The NCAA found that two assistant coaches had improperly helped potential recruits with correspondence coursework in 1993. The university was cited for a lack of institutional control in failing to monitor its coaches adequately for wrongdoing.

This year, the Sun Belt Conference announced it would sever ties with UTPA in 1998. UTPA is trying to join the Southland Conference.

[Catatonic]

I enjoyed the mirror game with ACU. xlolx (for those of you who don't know what I'm talking about...UCA...ACU. xlolx

Best move we have ever made football-wise was hiring Chris Thompsen from the UCA coaching staff to head up our program. He has totally turned it around, with a record of 53-18 since taking over back in 2005. We were pretty wretched before his arrival.

[BEAR]

Best move we have ever made football-wise was hiring Chris Thompsen from the UCA coaching staff to head up our program. He has totally turned it around, with a record of 53-18 since taking over back in 2005. We were pretty wretched before his arrival.

You still have Chris! xlolx We want him back now! You're right..the man knows his stuff! xthumbsupxxnodxxbowx

There's another former Bear that is the head coach at Louisville too. Kinda did some things at Florida.(insert shiny national championship rings here)..LOL

[Catatonic]

You still have Chris! xlolx We want him back now! You're right..the man knows his stuff! xthumbsupxxnodxxbowx

There's another former Bear that is the head coach at Louisville too. Kinda did some things at Florida.(insert shiny national championship rings here)..LOL

Lots of coaches in the SEC breathed a sigh of relief when Strong left UF. He was widely considered the top Defensive Coordinator in the Strongest Conference in the US. Might be tougher to lure him back to Conway than to attract Chris. Thomsen will be looking around if ACU does not move up to D1 in the near future.

[TexasTerror]

SWAC fans discussing the 'demise' of their league and the possible 'merger' between SLC/SWAC...

http://www.tspnsports.com/forums/showthread.php?99726-The-Demise-of-The-SWAC

[3rd Coast Tiger]

SWAC fans discussing the 'demise' of the Southland and the possible 'merger' between SLC/SWAC...

http://www.tspnsports.com/forums/showthread.php?99726-The-Demise-of-The-SWAC

xrotatehxxrotatehxxrotatehx

[TexasTerror]

xrotatehxxrotatehxxrotatehx

3rd Coast -

Would not surprise me in the least bit to see something happen with the SWAC/SLC schools. These are very interesting times and the situation with Texas A&M/SEC could set off a whole new wave of realignment... that could be very wide-reaching!

[3rd Coast Tiger]

Question:

With the SWAC being the older of the two conferences (est. 1920), why don't those SLC schools that seem to be left out of the "FBS pipedream" just join the SWAC?

*oh... these comments ought to be good*

[DG Cowboy]

IMHO none of this will happen. If you have some SWAC members going big, then you would have some MEAC teams going also, leaving the two remaining groups to continue an HBC conference together.

[crossfire07]

They chose the road they wanted to go down, let em keep driving.

[superman7515]

IMHO none of this will happen. If you have some SWAC members going big, then you would have some MEAC teams going also, leaving the two remaining groups to continue an HBC conference together.

Which MEAC programs do you think would go "big"?

[DG Cowboy]

OK, this is just a shot in the dark for discussion. I'm thinking some from among NC A&T, Morgan, Hampton, Delaware State, Bethune-Cookman, and SC State. I'm just thinking some MEAC teams would not let SWAC teams move up without them.

[superman7515]

I can tell you unequivocally that 4 of the 6 have a snowballs chance in hell and it isn't a big snowball.

[dgtw]

What went wrong with Florida A&M's aborted move? Did they just not have the financing lined up?

[superman7515]

What went wrong with Florida A&M's aborted move? Did they just not have the financing lined up?

They basically had no plan at all:


DR. J.R.E. LEE III, Interim AD: Trusting a man who had lost his shirt in business deals gone bad to lead a move to Division I-A was problematic at best.... Lee was a 'legacy,' the grandson of J.R.E. Lee, Sr., President of FAMU (1924-44) and son of former FAMU business manager, J.R.E. Jr, founder of the Orange Blossom Classic....

Lee3 resigned under pressure in February 2005, after the Board of Trustees and some alums raised concerns about the lack of a solid plan for the I-A move and the growing budget deficit (FAMU had a $3M budget surplus in Fall 2002, but was millions in the hole by February 2005)... He still lives in Tallahassee..... Lee had been Ad at Tennessee State, an Associate AD at several I-A schools including Kansas and Wisconsin...

His former business holdings included TV and radio stations, car dealerships and extensive property holdings, all of which went away via bankrupcy.... He cut a questionable deal with the Urban Broadcasting Company (UBC) which was supposed to lead to televising of all games and a marketing deal with a New York firm that potentially would have netted millions it was claimed, but much of FAMU's budget surplus went to underwrite that deal and some of the high-priced administrators and consultants hired..

DR. JAMES CORBIN, BOT Chair: A strong personality who some suspected of aspiring to be FAMU President, when he served on the old Florida Board of Regents (each school in the system had a representative on that Board), Corbin is a businessman, a Republican and Black conservative who was allied with Jeb Bush.

When he was named Board chair in 2002, Corbin immediately moved to have AD Ken Riley and Associate AD/SWAC Cynthia Jones fired and replaced them with his buddy, Lee, in November 2002 to jump start the I-A move....He rammed the I-A move through the Board to get their approval AFTER THE NCAA had cleared FAMU to go up, despite oppostion from some board members, who wanted a feasibility study (including then President Fred Gainous).

PRESIDENT FRED GAINOUS: Gainous had a tough enough job, replacing the immensely popular Dr. Fred Humphries, who had lifted FAMU from an enrollment of 5,000 in 1985 to 13,000 when he was all but forced out by Republicans, including Governor Jeb Bush in 2002...

With all the accomplishments (Time Magazine College of the Year in 1997, leading the country in atrracting National Merit Scholars among other things), Humphries was a tough act to follow and Gainous was overwhelmed, having never run a four-year school (he was chancellor of the community college system in Alabama prior to coming to FAMU), and he was hand-picked in the eyes of many, by BOT chair James Corbin, who strong armed him into going along with the I-A move...

He was fired by the BOT in 2005, and works and lives in Tallahassee.

COACH BILLY JOE: Despite his successful run on the field (86 wins in 11 years (1994-04), four MEAC titles, one SBN title (1998), and seven straight teams (1995-2001) reaching postseason play) at FAMU, Joe was not popular in many corners and as opponents began to catch up with his Gulf Coast Offense during the tail end of his career, the opposition grew....

The move to I-A was lightly discussed with Joe, who opposed it because he was concerned about resources... Ironically, leadership elected to apply to the NCAA in the Summer of 2003, just as Joe had secured a boatload of I-A transfers which might have been difference makers for FAMU, but lost all those kids when the application went through, as FAMU was declared I-A.

That meant those youngsters were technically transferring from one I-A school to another, derailing a potential playoff team (memories still linger of Joe on camera announcing in Fall Camp that 20-plus kids had been declared ineligible, wearing sunglasses inside the football building to hide the tears)....

FAMU went 6-6 in 2003, of course declared ineligible for the MEAC title, then went 3-8 in 2004, playing a I-A schedule of Illinois, Virginia Tech, Tulane, Temple, FAU and FIU, and losing the Florida Classic in overtime time after letting a huge fourth quarter lead evaporate....

Joe was forced to fire his entire staff in February of 2005, then after hiring a new staff and going through spring with them, he was fired in June of 2005 (although he later sued and got his final year's salary) under the guise of NCAA violations, of which he was later cleared by the Committee On Infractions....

BTW, Rubin Carter was brought in to replace Joe in mid-July continuing a pattern of madness in the football program that current coach Joe Taylor managed to settle down and straighten out....

Ironically too, after his firing, Joe continued to live in Tallahassee, then was inducted into the College Football Hall of Fame in 2007.... He retired last Fall from Miles College after 2 1/2 turbulent seasons which featured clashes with the administration over resources and dealing with compliance issues and ineligible players...

THE FALLOUT: FAMU not only suffered through a 9-14 run over two seasons (2003, 2004) as a I-A program, but went from being solvent financially at $3 million in reserve, to being in a perpetual deficit, which forced administrators to slash budgets and staff assistants, especially for the non-revenue sports, many of whom (Volleyball, Track, Tennis, Softball, Baseball) were excelling or fairly competitive...

Recruiting budgets, which were mainly reserved for football and basketball, were slashed across the board... Coaches were going deeper in the hole personally, paying for recruiting trips and other program needs out-of-pocket...

Then the NCAA probation dealt another bolo as several sports lost scholarships (2007-10) because of the sanctions, and restrictions on recruiting (men's basketball had a one-year off campus recruiting ban), plus the vacating of wins and championships by teams using ineligible players)...

While all this was going on, FAMU was in the midst of a revolving door administratively, with four presidents (Dr. Henry Lewis, Pharmacy chair, interim; Gainous, Dr. Castell Bryant (interim) and since July 2007, current President Dr. James Ammons) and nine full-time or interim athletic directors, with current office holder Derek Horne about to start his second year....

Between Fall 2002 and Winter 2007, FAMU had five (5) ADs: Ken Riley (till November 2002, after serving since 1994); Lee (November 2002 to February 2005), Dr. Joseph Ramsey (Feb. 2004 to May 2005); Dr. Newton Jackson (interim, May 2005 to December 2005); Nelson Townsend (January 2006-November 2007).... An Interim, followed by Bill Hayes (2008-2009), another Interim, followed Derek Horne (September 2010 - present), came in that order....


Read more: http://www.meacfanszone.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=sz&action=display&thread=9790&page=1#ixzz1Tpoc9L5e

If you're really interested in more info on the subject, head over to MEACFansZone (http://www.meacfanszone.proboards.com) and ask Statman1955, he's the former FAMU Sports Information Director and is a wealth of knowledge on FAMU and HBCU sports in general. There were several other issues, such as 1) no conference affiliation due to the lack of planning, 2) One of the requirments for going to 1A was a larger stadium, one of the architects is married to the woman whose company financed Lincoln Financial Field in Philly and they were going to be the sole source bidder on the project, leading to large cost overruns in comparison to the budget due to a lack of competitive bidding, 3) they never sat down with all the other schools around them (FAU, FIU, USF, UCF, Troy) that were moving up at around the same time to get insight, share information, and possibly get into a conference together that would have been predominantly Florida schools which made for easier travel and helped boost attendance. Plenty of other smoke and mirrors behind their downfall. Suffice to say, they will not be attempting that again.

[3rd Coast Tiger]

It really depends on what happens... and what schools go FBS and what other schools do...

I'm not going to get into certain issues regarding certain SWAC and SLC schools as I have before, because I get negative remarks from individuals who are clearly close-minded to the reality of the situation.


Can you share where you have gotten plausible information from just one SWAC administrator that has been quoted as such with movement to the SLC?

[dgtw]

I don't see anyone leaving the SWAC for FBS. The financial risks aside, I think they'd be under intense pressure to keep the league together, given its history.

Then of course, there is the question are HBCUs still relevant or needed in 2011. But that's another can of worms best left unopened.

[DG Cowboy]

Well, if SU, JSU, and Grambling hypothetically went FBS, then I see some MEAC schools trying also. But I agree that it is not likely for either conference to have that happen. As for an SLC-SWAC combo, I just don't evidence any desire anywhere in either conference for that to happen. I have been wrong before, however. I see Lone Star schools in the picture for the SLC.

[number1]

OK, this is just a shot in the dark for discussion. I'm thinking some from among NC A&T, Morgan, Hampton, Delaware State, Bethune-Cookman, and SC State. I'm just thinking some MEAC teams would not let SWAC teams move up without them.

Out of that list, South Carolina State and North Carolina A&T would be the only ones in a position to consider that move. And that is if NC A&T gets their stuff straight in their athletic department.

[number1]

The Southland Conference is in danger of a major exodus to FBS from the Texas schools.

[TheRevSFA]

The issue with baseball at SFA is that no one wanted to build a new stadium. The Jacks play at horrible Jaycee's field, and the school tried to get money to build Bo Pilgrim Park, but besides the cost, the issue of where the stadium would be located (on wetlands) caused a big headache.

Big screw up by the U...

[TheTSUGrad]

I'm primarily a D2 fan but follow the Southland a bit with SFA. However there has been a lot of talk about some LSC teams going to the Soutland recently. Some of thats been addressed on here. But the new word is that Abilene Christian, Angelo State & Texas A&M Commerce have all been approached. This came from the moderator a D2Football is pretty well connected & rarely starts rumors as far as I know. ACU has publicly said they are looking at D1 & Angelo State just announced they have hired a consultant to look at the issue, havent heard anything out of Commerce yet. I was almost sure Tarleton would be in the mix so I'm at a bit of a loss. Anybody else hearing anything like this?

[crossfire07]

Even then, Lamar is probably the best positioned followed by Sam Houston State.

Lamar definitely would not have a problem attendance wise moving up but Sam Houston is going to need more than an average of 6700 people at a game before they think about it.

[brocal]

I'm primarily a D2 fan but follow the Southland a bit with SFA. However there has been a lot of talk about some LSC teams going to the Soutland recently. Some of thats been addressed on here. But the new word is that Abilene Christian, Angelo State & Texas A&M Commerce have all been approached. This came from the moderator a D2Football is pretty well connected & rarely starts rumors as far as I know. ACU has publicly said they are looking at D1 & Angelo State just announced they have hired a consultant to look at the issue, havent heard anything out of Commerce yet. I was almost sure Tarleton would be in the mix so I'm at a bit of a loss. Anybody else hearing anything like this?

Tarleton isn't even remotely in the mix with the current President there. He has zero desire to move up whatsoever.

ACU has already expressed their desires, Angelo has now made theirs known, and Commerce is positioning itself to be VERY attractive to the SLC. Commerce is already the biggest school in the LSC and is growing at a quicker pace than any other the other schools, has done a TON of upgrades to their facilities and rumors coming out now about a new arena.

Who knows.

[TheRevSFA]

Lamar definitely would not have a problem attendance wise moving up but Sam Houston is going to need more than an average of 6700 people at a game before they think about it.

I really think Lamar needs to change their name to Texas State-Beaumont if they want to get the geographic attention for jumping.

[dbackjon]

I really think Lamar needs to change their name to Texas State-Beaumont if they want to get the geographic attention for jumping.

I love Lamar Athletics!!

http://tailgatereview.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/javelin-lamar.jpg

[TheTSUGrad]

The league leadership seems very interested in adding a football school.

If Houston Baptist does not receive an invite by June 30, 2012 if the current climate/lineup remains the same within the SLC- that will speak VERY loudly about what the league thinks of the school...





http://www.dailycomet.com/article/20110805/ARTICLES/110809707/1032?
p=1&tc=pg


This is on the D2 site:

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2011/aug/05/angelo-state-to-weigh-possibility-of-d-i-move/

This seems to come out of nowhere so I'm assuming they have talked to the SLC as well as ACU since they suddenly started talking about it a couple months back both I'm guessing have unofficial invitations or at least been told there is a good chance of being accepted. I'm guessing one or two other schools might go up too but nothing has been said publicly. Its weird because Tarleton was always suspected first, then maybe West Texas A&M & Texas A&M Kingsville. They seem to be doing the opposite of most people guessed .

[brocal]

West Texas A&M wants to be a dominant d2 school and Kingsville has said repeatedly they belong in D2.

I guess the SLC sees Commerce as their DFW school and Angelo State as their west Texas school. Who's the third if its not ACU?

[DFW HOYA]

I guess the SLC sees Commerce as their DFW school and Angelo State as their west Texas school. Who's the third if its not ACU?

Incarnate Word?

[TheRevSFA]

UIW did beat Texas State in basketball

[FormerPokeCenter]

Here's what a made-over SLC would look like if the league would add those three LSC schools that have been mentioned... league would be 10 football, 12 overall. Would hope we would play an eight-game league schedule if the SLC became a 10 member football league...

SLC WEST
Abilene Christian
Angelo State
Sam Houston State
Stephen F. Austin
Texas A&M-Commerce
Texas A&M-Corpus Christi

SLC EAST
Central Arkansas
Lamar
McNeese State
Nicholls
Northwestern State
Southeastern Louisiana

That looks like 11 teams that play football to me....which one am I wrong on???

[TexasTerror]

That looks like 11 teams that play football to me....which one am I wrong on???

You are correct... A&M-Corpus is the only one not playing football. ;)

I would still want an eight-game schedule within league play with 11 teams. Would hate to not play a league rival for a two-year window (presumably), but it would be in the best interest of the league.

[08LionBacker]

If TAMU-Commerce does make the jump they will need to add 3 sports. I know that a softball program will begin next year and Ive heard that a baseball program will be right behind it. Commerce has seen a tremendous amount of growth in the last couple of years. Enrollment is around 11,000. Geographically TAMC has always made sense for Southland membership but you would never the name mentioned as a possible candidate for the Southland.

[lionsrking2]

If TAMU-Commerce does make the jump they will need to add 3 sports. I know that a softball program will begin next year and Ive heard that a baseball program will be right behind it. Commerce has seen a tremendous amount of growth in the last couple of years. Enrollment is around 11,000. Geographically TAMC has always made sense for Southland membership but you would never the name mentioned as a possible candidate for the Southland.

I would welcome Commerce into the SLC...we played them two years ago to open the season and felt like at the time they would make a good fit should they ever decided to move up...from the research I've done, sounds like they're ripe for growth potential, especially if they elevate to Division I.

[dgtw]

If TAMU-Commerce does make the jump they will need to add 3 sports. I know that a softball program will begin next year and Ive heard that a baseball program will be right behind it. Commerce has seen a tremendous amount of growth in the last couple of years. Enrollment is around 11,000. Geographically TAMC has always made sense for Southland membership but you would never the name mentioned as a possible candidate for the Southland.

According to Wkipedia, they have a track and field program. All they'd need to do is to "start" an indoor track and field program, which is an SLC sponsored sport. They would not need an actual indoor facility. Just say "Today we are launching an indoor track and field team" and you instantly have another sport for men and women. You use the same coaches, athletes and equipment.

[msusig]

I personally don't think it would be best for the SLC to pick up any more non-football members right now. Especially with Lamar and Sam Houston thinking about going to the BCS. Therefore, if expansion must be done in Texas for the SLC to remain a good football conference, we should take Abilene Christian within the year. Then maybe two other LCS football members when a final decision is made public regarding Lamar and Sam Houston.

[chrisattsu]

Abilene, ASU, and Commerce would be good pickups for the league.

Angelo is geographically isolated and has the ability to piggy back off of their local community to get good facilities. San Angelo Stadium is city owned and larger than some current SLC stadiums. Their baseball stadium is shared with the local minor league team.

Abilene is close enough to San Angelo to provide a travel partner opportunity. They also have nice facilities.

Commerce is making the necessary improvements will keep you in earshot of DFW.

[chrisattsu]

This is on the D2 site:

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2011/aug/05/angelo-state-to-weigh-possibility-of-d-i-move/

This seems to come out of nowhere so I'm assuming they have talked to the SLC as well as ACU since they suddenly started talking about it a couple months back both I'm guessing have unofficial invitations or at least been told there is a good chance of being accepted. I'm guessing one or two other schools might go up too but nothing has been said publicly. Its weird because Tarleton was always suspected first, then maybe West Texas A&M & Texas A&M Kingsville. They seem to be doing the opposite of most people guessed .

I agree with Brocal that WT wants to be the Montana of D2 and Kingsville is happy in the D2.

As for Tarleton, its not going to happen as long as the current leadership is in place. Head Basketball Coach / Athletic Director has made it to the Final Four and wants to win the big dance before he retires. The President is too concerned with building up other parts of the campus and does not want to invest in athletic facilities for the moment. This disqualified Tarleton last time, and will do it again.

[BearsCountry]

ORU is tired of the XDSU's. Also I think it would bolster their baseball program by playing in the South. ORU would get you back to 10 at least.

[TheBisonator]

I wonder if 5 years is long enough for the XDSU's to be in an entry-level conference like the Summit.

NDSU is starting groundbreaking on its 34 million dollar BSA renovation project on Saturday. Hopefully the rebuilt arena will convince the MVC that we're a good fit for all sports.

[BearsCountry]

Looks like Oral Roberts is coming on board today
http://orugoldeneagles.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=17000&ATCLID=205321822

Southland will be back to 10 members. 8 football and 2 non football.

[BEAR]

Houston Baptist is next:

http://www.myfoxhouston.com/dpp/sports/ncaa_football/111025-southland-conference-to-visit-houston-baptist-university

[Sec310]

So something I predicted would happen back in July, is now official, ORU joins the Southland. When the Sun Belt changes their by-laws and gets rid of all non football school, UALR will also join the Southland, like I said back in July.

Who will be the 12th member?

[TexasTerror]

LSC MB discussion of possible Abilene Christian, Incarnate Word move to SLC...

http://www.d2messageboard.com/showthread.php?45427-Will-the-LSC-be-here-next-year

[TexasTerror]

Missed this earlier... UTPA blog on subject...

http://broncs.themonitor.com/2011/10/27/movement-in-the-southland/

[LouiseBFree]

No football, no entry


Missed this earlier... UTPA blog on subject...

http://broncs.themonitor.com/2011/10/27/movement-in-the-southland/

[MplsBison]

No football, no entry

Except if you're Oral Roberts or UALR?


Hang in there UTPA - you poor b***ards. If Savannah St can make it to a conference, so can you.

[katstrapper]

Houston Baptist is next:

http://www.myfoxhouston.com/dpp/sports/ncaa_football/111025-southland-conference-to-visit-houston-baptist-university

HBU is not going to come into the Southland. There are a lot better choices.

[Demons_00]

I'd love to see the Southland add UALR and Abilene Christian. That would give us 12 schools and 9 football playing schools. We'd get the 8 game conference schedule in football, and can split into 2 6-team divisions for basketball, baseball, and any other sports all 12 schools have. Geographically it might be a little tricky dividing the divisions, but it could be done. Might have to break up some rivalries or have some schools with much more travel in their divisions.

[TexasTerror]

Next...


That conference may be a growing conference.

"The way we refer to it is we're still open for business on the membership side of things," Burnett said after making HBU the Southland's 11th member. "This is a league that for the last six years has been a 12-member league. There's some interest in our league in returning to a 12-member league and perhaps look at other football-playing institutions."

The 12th member may come from a football-playing Division II school in need of a conference invitation in order to move into Division I.

"Right now, I think that we're gonna start to look at this conference, at least initially, as an 11-member configuration in the 2013-14 year, but I wouldn't be surprised if we move in a direction to pick up a 12th member," Burnett said.

http://www.chron.com/sports/college/article/HBU-will-play-football-join-Southland-Conference-2280640.php

[Dallas Demon]

Next...



http://www.chron.com/sports/college/article/HBU-will-play-football-join-Southland-Conference-2280640.php

Will be interesting to see who is considered. Abeline Christian, Tarleton St., Midwestern St., East Central Oklahoma, Texas A&M Commerce, Texas A&M Kingsville, Delta St., Arkansas Tech, Henderson St., West Texas A&M, and North Alabama all are being considered I'm sure. Maybe a few others.

[NSUDemon98]

Will be interesting to see who is considered. Abeline Christian, Tarleton St., Midwestern St., East Central Oklahoma, Texas A&M Commerce, Texas A&M Kingsville, Delta St., Arkansas Tech, Henderson St., West Texas A&M, and North Alabama all are being considered I'm sure. Maybe a few others.

Abilene, Tarleton, TAMU-Commerce and UNA...yes, maybe

Delta St, anything in Ar-Kansas and anything in Oklahoma (except ORU)....hell no! LOL

[TheRevSFA]

I'd love to see Delta State move up. They've been solid at DII.

Realistically it's ACU.

[Dallas Demon]

The issue with some of these teams is with their facilities. Tarleton's football stadium is awful - arguably worse than a Texas 3A stadium with really bad lighting. ACU's Shotwell stadium is good. Likewise for Midwestern's stadium, they are both 17K - 20K I believe. Delta St. needs some improvement from the pictures I've seen.