Things that make you go Hmm.....

[bluedog]

Well tomorrow the FCS committee are hoping to start anew and maybe, just maybe pull in a crowd of about 25-30k for tomorrow big title showdown between two FCS Titans, by moving the game to the following year.

Which got me to thinking. Remember when the NCAA said that it was virtually impossible to move the games back to allow for the Bayou Classic and the Turkey Classic so that it would allow for any SWAC school to participate?

Not only have they move the game to the following year but they've also added teams.

Now doesn't that just make you go Hmmm......

Somebody whose great at writing/typing needs to start a blog calling these liars out.

[I-16Bandit]

Well tomorrow the FCS committee are hoping to start anew and maybe, just maybe pull in a crowd of about 25-30k for tomorrow big title showdown between two FCS Titans, by moving the game to the following year.

Which got me to thinking. Remember when the NCAA said that it was virtually impossible to move the games back to allow for the Bayou Classic and the Turkey Classic so that it would allow for any SWAC school to participate?

Not only have they move the game to the following year but they've also added teams.

Now doesn't that just make you go Hmmm......

Somebody whose great at writing/typing needs to start a blog calling these liars out.

+1 xnodx

[Tribe4SF]

Please! The SWAC has made its choices, and one of those is not to participate in the playoffs. I'm no lover of the NCAA, but a conspiracy theory here is fantasy. I guess the rest of us should have bent over, left the field at 16 teams, and given Texas Southern a bye into the semifinals.

And the NCAA isn't hoping for a crowd of 25K-30K. Pizza Hut Park only seats 20K. Not big enough to entice a SWAC team, even on the extreme longshot that one would make it that far.

[bluedog]

Please! The SWAC has made its choices, and one of those is not to participate in the playoffs. I'm no lover of the NCAA, but a conspiracy theory here is fantasy. I guess the rest of us should have bent over, left the field at 16 teams, and given Texas Southern a bye into the semifinals.

And the NCAA isn't hoping for a crowd of 25K-30K. Pizza Hut Park only seats 20K. Not big enough to entice a SWAC team, even on the extreme longshot that one would make it that far.

Wow and you got all of that out of me saying point blank that they lied about not being able to move a game?

So tell me, what lead you to that conclusion since you clearly don't know me and we've never spoke about it?

Not to mention the only thing you know about the SWAC is what you get from scuttle butts on this board.

What's is it about my comment that has you so motivated, that you're "THE DEFENDER OF THE NCAA" on a topic you know`absolutely nothing about?

[Tribe4SF]

"Which got me to thinking. Remember when the NCAA said that it was virtually impossible to move the games back to allow for the Bayou Classic and the Turkey Classic so that it would allow for any SWAC school to participate?"

This is what you said. In this regard, there is no lie. The games were not going to be moved back to satisfy the wants of a few member schools. "Virtually impossible" to convince enough members of the competition or championship committees to vote for that action. The majority of members wanted the field to expand, and that required moving the championship game. The "virtually impossible" became possible because that's what the membership wanted. The SWAC still has a voice, and they still have the option to participate in the championship. I don't fault the SWAC for doing what they believe is in their best interest, so don't fault the other 110 or so FCS members for doing the same.

[Franks Tanks]

Well tomorrow the FCS committee are hoping to start anew and maybe, just maybe pull in a crowd of about 25-30k for tomorrow big title showdown between two FCS Titans, by moving the game to the following year.

Which got me to thinking. Remember when the NCAA said that it was virtually impossible to move the games back to allow for the Bayou Classic and the Turkey Classic so that it would allow for any SWAC school to participate?

Not only have they move the game to the following year but they've also added teams.

Now doesn't that just make you go Hmmm......

Somebody whose great at writing/typing needs to start a blog calling these liars out.

So all of FCS football should be impacted and move the playoffs just for the SWAC and Bayou classic?

[zymergy]

They moved because Christmas and New Years fell on the weekend. Which will happen again next year. Lets see what happens in 2012. Actually I think they will keep this schedule since teams and fans are seeing more positive than negative. It worked out well this year minus the Cotton bowl timing.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Someone is conveniently forgetting the existence of the SWAC Championship game, which has a lot more to do with SWAC teams being unable to compete in the playoffs than the Bayou Classic and other Thanksgiving games.

When the SWAC elected to have a championship game instead of entering the playoffs, they effectively declared themselves ineligible for the FCS postseason. It was the SWAC's financial decision to have that game that precluded their playoff eligibility, not the Classics. Portraying it as "the NCAA is screwing the SWAC over Classics" is beyond ludicrous.

Oh by the way, I'd really enjoy seeing what the payout was for Texas Southern and Alabama State from this year's championship. How much went to the schools themselves? How much went to the SWAC conference? Did the schools have to pay to bring their spirit teams and guarantee ticket sales? I'd love to see the finances.

[bluedog]

Well I knew it wouldn't be long before all the know-it-alls would chime in because they are so well educated by in the working of the SWAC by TeeTee.

So tell me all Just what dates did these meeting/conversation take place between the SWAC office and the NCAA?

FYI so you might be able to guess and continue to pretend you are so well educated by the inner workings of the SWAC. The SWAC Championship Game wasn't even an idea yet and here's a quote from someone you know all might know as to the reason given.


This new FCS plan is not without its downsides, O’Day notes: “It won’t help to move the championship back three weeks into January – let alone that it will be taking place 40 minutes away from the Cotton Bowl, which has also been moved to that night. So much for FCS exposure on national television. Just to keep the student-athletes on campus during Christmas will also cost the two schools in the championship an additional $100,000 – none of which is budgeted. And to put in perspective, we LOST $150,000 each of the past two year going to the championship game. Had we won, the incentives for coaches would have put the losses over $200,000 each time. We get no additional revenue for any of this.”



DISCLAIMER FOR THE SLOW; I didn't say that this was quoted during that time frame

[danefan]

Well I knew it wouldn't be long before all the know-it-alls would chime in because they are so well educated by in the working of the SWAC by TeeTee.

So tell me all Just what dates did these meeting/conversation take place between the SWAC office and the NCAA?

FYI so you might be able to guess and continue to pretend you are so well educated by the inner workings of the SWAC. The SWAC Championship Game wasn't even an idea yet and here's a quote from someone you know all might know as to the reason given.




DISCLAIMER FOR THE SLOW; I didn't say that this was quoted during that time frame

Just to clarify something - O'Day was in the great minority regarding playoff expansion and the push into January and he's been proven completely wrong so far.

I have no opinion on the SWAC because it will inevitably be wrong and I'll be labeled a "liar".....so I'll sit that one out.

[bluedog]

Just to clarify something - O'Day was in the great minority regarding playoff expansion and the push into January and he's been proven completely wrong so far.

I have no opinion on the SWAC because it will inevitably be wrong and I'll be labeled a "liar".....so I'll sit that one out.

So what does that have to do with the part of his quote that I highlighted and that you conviently left out?

BTW you wouldn't be called a liar, just ignorant and misinform like 99% in this forum.

[Side Judge]

So what does that have to do with the part of his quote that I highlighted and that you conviently left out?

BTW you wouldn't be called a liar, just ignorant and misinform like 99% in this forum.

Some easily verifiable stats:
#Tribe4SF posts = 4,760
#Franks Tanks posts = 5,532
#Lehigh Football Nation posts = 7,258
#danefan posts = 7,508

These guys know a thing or 2 about FCS football...

[BlueHenSinfonian]

So what does that have to do with the part of his quote that I highlighted and that you conviently left out?

BTW you wouldn't be called a liar, just ignorant and misinform like 99% in this forum.

Who cares if it costs money to be in the playoffs? Bwho cares in the end if a school overall loses money in the playoffs? The positive effects of winning the NC such as greater visibility and recruiting potential for the school, greater merchandise sales potential, and increased attendance all far outweigh any costs that may come up during the playoff process.

[bluedog]

Some easily verifiable stats:
#Tribe4SF posts = 4,760
#Franks Tanks posts = 5,532
#Lehigh Football Nation posts = 7,258
#danefan posts = 7,508

These guys know a thing or 2 about FCS football...

So what does that have to do with the topic at hand or knowing about the inner workings of the SWAC?

[Side Judge]

So what does that have to do with the topic at hand or knowing about the inner workings of the SWAC?

Are you saying that the topic at hand has little to do with FCS football?

[danefan]

So what does that have to do with the part of his quote that I highlighted and that you conviently left out?

BTW you wouldn't be called a liar, just ignorant and misinform like 99% in this forum.

Actually I've been called a liar by a few SWAC fans before when I incorrectly said the MEAC had 8 nationally televised games this year, when they really had 7. I was definitely lying when I said that too...xeyebrowx

And I didn't conveniently leave anything out. I simply pressed "reply with quote" to your message. And the bolded part has also been proven wrong (or at least not accurate to all FCS teams). The EWU AD has been quoted as saying housing was not an additional cost for them at all over the break.

But again, good luck in this conversation. The SWAC has made an economic decision to not participate in the playoffs. More power to them especially in these tough economic time where cash rules.

[bluedog]

Who cares if it costs money to be in the playoffs? Bwho cares in the end if a school overall loses money in the playoffs? The positive effects of winning the NC such as greater visib[B]ility and recruiting potential for the school, greater merchandise sales potential, and increased attendance all far outweigh any costs that may come up during the playoff process.

What does this have to do with the topic at hand?

Did I ask who cares if it or how much money it cost?

Clearly nobody here does because they aren't the ones that have to foot the bill to run an athletic dept, so it easy to pop off about who cares f it cost.

Lets try to stay on topic...OK?

You guys have been spewing that propaganda for years, but the numbers http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?80732-Division-I-Championship-Attendance-History don't support that, save it for the MEAC.

Actually you are 1,281 fans less on avg then the inaugural games thirty years ago.



Actually you don't have to even save it for them because they've bought it hook line and sinker, but again lets try to stay on topic and not always turn every thread that someone from the SWAC starts a us against them.


You don't do it to the Ivies

[Tribe4SF]

What does this have to do with the topic at hand?

Did I ask who cares if it or how much money it cost?

Clearly nobody here does because they aren't the ones that have to foot the bill to run an athletic dept, so it easy to pop off about who cares f it cost.

Lets try to stay on topic...OK?

You guys have been spewing that propaganda for years, but the numbers http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?80732-Division-I-Championship-Attendance-History support that, save it for the MEAC.

Actually you are 1,281 fans less then the inaugural games.



Actually you don't have to even save it for them because they've bough it hook line and sinker, but again lets try to stay on topic and not always turn every thread that someone from the SWAC starts a us against them.


You don't do it to the Ivies

You're the one who inserted O'Day's quote and highlighted the part about cost. If you're intending to speak for all of the SWAC including other fans on this forum, you might want to check with them as to your delegate status. Whether a poster is from the SWAC, an Ivy, or any other school, when they switch topics mid-thread, and start referring to others as ignorant they are going to get a reaction. i believe your topic in the first post was your position that the NCAA lied about moving the championship game to accommodate the SWAC. You seem now to be focused on discrediting anyone who disagrees with that position by slurring us collectively.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Mr. bluedog has been eerily silent about my request as to how Texas Southern and Alabama State benefited financially from the SWAC Championship game. Then again, a form of defense (99% are against us!) is offense, I suppose.

[bluedog]

Mr. bluedog has been eerily silent about my request as to how Texas Southern and Alabama State benefited financially from the SWAC Championship game. Then again, a form of defense (99% are against us!) is offense, I suppose.

#1. I don't recall seeing it (so i guess i miss that part)

#2 I hope you aren't foolish enough to think I'd avoid any relevant question from you or anyone else

3# It has nothing to do with the topic at hand, therefore it's irrelevant

#4 Start your own thread about it and you and your buddies can go on as many different tangents as you like about it. (I'm sure the Mods won't mind)

[Panther88]

lol

Back to the top. :D

[mikebigg]

So all of FCS football should be impacted and move the playoffs just for the SWAC and Bayou classic?

It moved it anyway... the argument in years past was that the SWAC HAD to have completed all of it's games because the playoffs had to start early enough to finish BEFORE the Bowl Season (which at that time was from around Dec25th - Jan 2nd). Tomorrow is Jan 7th! I would have respected more if they simply would have said "We Won't" instead of lying and saying "We Can't". Was it membership envy of the success of the Bayou Classic and a mentality of "Why should we do them any favors...so what if it means we're playing when the students are gone?" That's sad...and now the lie is out and no one wants to admit to their hypocrisy.

[nwFL Griz]

It moved it anyway... the argument in years past was that the SWAC HAD to have completed all of it's games because the playoffs had to start early enough to finish BEFORE the Bowl Season (which at that time was from around Dec25th - Jan 2nd). Tomorrow is Jan 7th! I would have respected more if they simply would have said "We Won't" instead of lying and saying "We Can't". Was it membership envy of the success of the Bayou Classic and a mentality of "Why should we do them any favors...so what if it means we're playing when the students are gone?" That's sad...and now the lie is out and no one wants to admit to their hypocrisy.

Seriously? Things change. The game was moved because the majority wanted to expand the playoffs. There was no conspiracy against the SWAC. You all made a choice, based on finances, I assume. Fine, you did what you had to do. Why start this fight now? Cause that is all this is. A way to start a 'us against them' fight.

Take the huge chip off your shoulder. Nothing has really changed for you guys though, has it? The first round of playoff games still clashes with the Classic. So why start this?

[mikebigg]

Because the FCS playoffs made it us against them...

[Panther88]

****back to top****

[nwFL Griz]

Because the FCS playoffs made it us against them...

Did they? Or did you make it you against them?

I was at the game when Jackson St (a SWAC team, unless I'm mistaken) played Montana in the playoffs. So...it seems to me that you made your own decision. Which is fine, you gotta do what's best for you, but don't try to make this out like you didn't have an option.

[Tribe4SF]

Because the FCS playoffs made it us against them...

SWAC teams used to be part of the playoff, so how did the FCS playoffs make it us against them?. Nice interview with Everson Walls during the game last night reminiscing about how awesome his playoff experience was.

[WileECoyote06]

Addressing the topic presented in the original post:

It's obvious that the NCAA can change things as they see fit. So yes it does seem as if the SWAC was unfairly excluded from the playoffs. But that cannot be a plausible scenario because times were different when that decision was made. With new leadership, new vision and new exceptions can be made.

I think moving the playoffs back a week is a legitimate option, and then the playoffs could also expand to 24 to include the Pioneer League and SWAC. If you're playing Division I football, you ought to be able to compete in the Division I playoffs.

Playing the week of December 1; December 7, December 14, December 21 and then in January the Friday before the BCS Championship game.
First Round: 16 teams playing (8 first round byes)
Second Round: 16 teams playing
Quarterfinals: 8 teams playing
Semifinals: 4 teams playing

[mikebigg]

Jackson State is indeed in the SWAC... but the decision was made by the NCAA that either Grambling/Southern and Bama State move their Thanksgiving weekend game PERMANENTLY or no autobid (which we never received anyway) would not be awarded in the future. Cool... that only meant that other schools would be eligible to go.

Now you are correct...Everson Walls played for Gram against Boise State and their were other years when Grambling was selected. Here's the deal...At one time, the BC was played in alternate years the week prior to Thanksgiving as Tulane vs LSU in certain years pre-empted our use of the Dome. Once that series ended, we had the Dome exclusively to ourselves each Thanksgiving weekend.

Now... hopefully the fact that Grambling competed (and competed well in terms of margin of defeat...3 close games loss with less than 5 point margins with controversial calls) when selected shows that we didn't stop going out of fear. We stopped going because we weren't selected. We weren't selected because we took the YEARLY guaranteed Bayou Classic payday rather than the "possible" playoff selection. Still the fact remains, we've gone when selected.

And yes... I feel it's us against the FCS playoff selection committee. Especially now that they've moved the Championship back when in the past they cited that as the reason for not moving the start of playoffs back a date. Never mind that the playoff attendance sucks when played TG weekend (well every weekend actually). However, I'm not surprised that the NCAA doesn't really care about Attendance - they get their money upfront anyway!

[mikebigg]

SWAC teams used to be part of the playoff, so how did the FCS playoffs make it us against them?. Nice interview with Everson Walls during the game last night reminiscing about how awesome his playoff experience was.

And I'm sure he was sincere...but even if he wasn't you don't really think he would have said anything else as an ambassador of the game. I think you guys misinterpret my disdain of the FCS playoffs as disdain for the individual FCS schools. Nothing could be further from the truth! I'm happy for those kids because they seem to enjoy the experience. My disdain is for how yall allow the NCAA to pimp the programs for those excessive bids AND a huge percentage of the gate. I've heard they get concessions too. Hopefully they aren't that greedy and the schools that gullible.

[BlueHenSinfonian]

We weren't selected because we took the YEARLY guaranteed Bayou Classic payday rather than the "possible" playoff selection. Still the fact remains, we've gone when selected.

And yes... I feel it's us against the FCS playoff selection committee. Especially now that they've moved the Championship back when in the past they cited that as the reason for not moving the start of playoffs back a date.

I think that is the crux of it. If the SWAC schools are more interested in a payday than in playing by the rules that everyone else is willing to work with they don't need to be in the playoffs. Yes, it is easy to lose money in the playoff process, but it isn't about making money, it's about the integrity of the championship process. I'm glad that the other conferences have not agreed to move the starting date just to appease the desires of one conference that wants to hold some money games in competition to the legitimate playoff process.

As it is, no one is excluding the SWAC - the SWAC choose to exclude themselves by refusing to play by the same rules that every other conference has agreed to.

[mikebigg]

I think that is the crux of it. If the SWAC schools are more interested in a payday than in playing by the rules that everyone else is willing to work with they don't need to be in the playoffs. Yes, it is easy to lose money in the playoff process, but it isn't about making money, it's about the integrity of the championship process. I'm glad that the other conferences have not agreed to move the starting date just to appease the desires of one conference that wants to hold some money games in competition to the legitimate playoff process.

As it is, no one is excluding the SWAC - the SWAC choose to exclude themselves by refusing to play by the same rules that every other conference has agreed to.

So moving it the first time wasn't done to punish the SWAC but moving it back would be appeasing the SWAC?

I think you miss the point... the SWAC doesn't exclude itself. We were excluded by the NCAA... unless you can show me where the SWAC or a member school EVER refused a bid.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

If the SWAC gets rid of their championship game and their champion isn't named Grambling State, Southern or Alabama State, the SWAC will get an at-large bid to the FCS playoffs. It's that simple.

Ball's in your court, SWAC. Stop hosting a championship game during the playoffs, and join the fun.

The SWAC disqualifies itself because of their Championship game. Classics have nothing to do with anything.

[BlueHenSinfonian]

So moving it the first time wasn't done to punish the SWAC but moving it back would be appeasing the SWAC?

I think you miss the point... the SWAC doesn't exclude itself. We were excluded by the NCAA... unless you can show me where the SWAC or a member school EVER refused a bid.

I think you are the one missing the point - by having the SWAC championship game and the classics that conflict with the playoffs the SWAC is excluding themselves. If the SWAC wants to participate in the playoffs, they need to eliminate the SWAC championship game, or move it so that it doesn't conflict with the playoffs, and move the classics so that they don't conflict with the playoffs.

The playoff schedule was changed this year because it was what the majority of the conferences wanted. Changing the schedule to appease the SWAC wouldn't be fair to everyone else. Since the SWAC is the odd man out with regards to games scheduled against the playoffs, it's up to them to change. Refusing to adapt to the schedule that the rest of the subdivision has adopted is the same as refusing a bid, as it effectively eliminates the SWAC from consideration for a bid.

The NEC and PFL did away with the Gridiron Classic and as a result the NEC received a playoff bid this year. From what I've heard the PFL has applied for an autobid and I fully expect them to receive one within the next year or two.

[mikebigg]

If the SWAC gets rid of their championship game and their champion isn't named Grambling State, Southern or Alabama State, the SWAC will get an at-large bid to the FCS playoffs. It's that simple.

Ball's in your court, SWAC. Stop hosting a championship game during the playoffs, and join the fun.

The SWAC disqualifies itself because of their Championship game. Classics have nothing to do with anything.

We'll get back with yall on that... let us know when the NCAA stop pimping the schools.

[TexasTerror]

We'll get back with yall on that... let us know when the NCAA stop pimping the schools.

I find it funny that a SWAC fan is saying "let us know when the NCAA stop pimping the schools"....

The NCAA is the one that allows "the schools to pimp the SWAC"... have you seen the OOC basketball schedules for your league? If there was not "pimping" allowed, the SWAC would not be able to exist. Your schools each pocket $300-600k off of basketball schedules when you are getting $50-90k for each money game. That money is crucial to supporting your already poorly funded programs, that rank at the bottom of the athletic funding totem pole - Valley's budget of just over $3M being the lowest of a Div I school with football.

FYI - NCAA mandates at least $1.2M in scholarships Makes me very perplexed on how Valley functions...

[BlueHenSinfonian]

We'll get back with yall on that... let us know when the NCAA stop pimping the schools.

If you are going to start alluding that the schools which participate in the playoffs are somehow whores, I'd call attention to the fact that it's the SWAC that would rather play meaningless games for money than participate in the most fair and honest system available to find the Division I national champion.

[bjtheflamesfan]

Ok guys...take it easy...both sides can make perfectly valid points without having to talk about "pimping" and schools being "whores"...this is pretty much turning into a trench battle so maybe you can just agree to disagree

[nwFL Griz]

I'd also like to point out for bigg...the start cannot really be moved back. The final game, no prob. But the playoffs have to start when they do, or there would be playoff games during christmas weekend, and I don't believe anyone wants that. Basically, with the added round, the final game had to be moved. I believe the committee selected the best time for the final, Cotton Bowl not withstanding.

I look forward to the day when both the SWAC and Ivy join the rest of the subdivision in determining the champion. I just hope that day will come.

[mikebigg]

I never called his school or any school a whore, nor did I imply as much. I said the process by which the NCAA (which my school is a member of) takes money from these schools constitutes pimping them, as in using them to make money for the NCAA. Not my fault that the individual didn't know how to respond without being negative. I never belittled his school, his conference, nor the FCS division.

To TT... that's not the same. We get paid a fee for playing larger schools. Your school can and probably does the same. I'm lost as to how you think the NCAA is giving money to the SWAC for playing those games. The money comes from the schools we play, NOT the NCAA. Surely, you're not trying to assert that the money they are paying comes from the NCAA. No, it comes from money made for March Madness. That money doesn't come from the NCAA... it passes through the NCAA but the money is made from Television that the NCAA makes from those teams participating in the tourney.

I'm out...and yall can continue your lucrative arrangement with the NCAA. If it amuses you, it tickles the "L" outta me!

[BlueHenSinfonian]

I never called his school or any school a whore, nor did I imply as much. I said the process by which the NCAA (which my school is a member of) takes money from these schools constitutes pimping them, as in using them to make money for the NCAA.


Perhaps I misunderstood you, but your choice of wording with 'pimping' made it the logical leap, after all, who is it that pimps employ.

Yes, the NCAA makes money from the schools involved in the playoffs, as they do from the teams in FBS, and likely from Div II and Div III as well. Whether or not the NCAA profits from organizing and sanctioning collegiate athletics doesn't seem to be germane to this conversation however. If the NCAA makes money from the schools involved in the playoffs, they wouldn't want to exclude a conference from participating, after all, why limit your potential contributors? If anything, the argument that the NCAA's only motivation for the playoffs is to make money goes against the original premise of this threat which was that somehow the NCAA was lying about it's inability to change the playoff dates specifically to exclude the SWAC.

[SUjagTILLiDIE]

I find it funny that a SWAC fan is saying "let us know when the NCAA stop pimping the schools"....

The NCAA is the one that allows "the schools to pimp the SWAC"... have you seen the OOC basketball schedules for your league? If there was not "pimping" allowed, the SWAC would not be able to exist. Your schools each pocket $300-600k off of basketball schedules when you are getting $50-90k for each money game. That money is crucial to supporting your already poorly funded programs, that rank at the bottom of the athletic funding totem pole - Valley's budget of just over $3M being the lowest of a Div I school with football.

FYI - NCAA mandates at least $1.2M in scholarships Makes me very perplexed on how Valley functions...

So isnt that the same as some Southland Schools playing 2 or 3 games against BCS schools in football.

[TexasTerror]

So isnt that the same as some Southland Schools playing 2 or 3 games against BCS schools in football.

The Southland Conference has a financial gap between the Texas schools and those in Louisiana, Arkansas. There are schools who are playing two guarantee games, but you are not seeing 8-10 money games in basketball at these institutions, like you do in the SWAC.

The SWAC schools play guarantee games and/or Classics that are all 'one in the same' - another game that is away from campus. Have you seen SWAC on campus attendance? It ranks behind several conferences as far as FCS attendance goes. The SWAC relies on the "events" that are the Classics to claim their "attendance crown".

Outside of Texas Southern and perhaps Prairie View A&M, you have eight schools struggling financially to put together a Division I product. The SWAC in some circles is considered Division I in "name only" and based on recent results for your Southern men's basketball team, it may not be hard to disagree!

[Jaguar79]

The Southland Conference has a financial gap between the Texas schools and those in Louisiana, Arkansas. There are schools who are playing two guarantee games, but you are not seeing 8-10 money games in basketball at these institutions, like you do in the SWAC.

The SWAC schools play guarantee games and/or Classics that are all 'one in the same' - another game that is away from campus. Have you seen SWAC on campus attendance? It ranks behind several conferences as far as FCS attendance goes. The SWAC relies on the "events" that are the Classics to claim their "attendance crown".

Outside of Texas Southern and perhaps Prairie View A&M, you have eight schools struggling financially to put together a Division I product. The SWAC in some circles is considered Division I in "name only" and based on recent results for your Southern men's basketball team, it may not be hard to disagree!

Explain this for me ... we are talking about FOOTBALL and you immediately run to basketball. Till I Die just stated that some of the Southland schools play TWO guarantee football games to get what we do with the so-called "bodybag" games in basketball. What's the difference my friend? That conference chooses to let it's football teams take the hits and the SWAC chooses to let it's basketball teams take it. I don't see much of a difference. End result: More money for your athletic department.

Fact is, if the rest of FCS is content to play in front of nobody on Thanksgiving weekend when they could move back one weekend, have more fans, more financial support and make more money and only four teams would have to worry about Christmas weekend, which by the way, has become a HUGE FOOTBALL WEEKEND ANYWAY, then by all means continue. Despite some of the decisions that have come out of the SWAC and my school specifically, this is one I'm glad they have made and will continue to support.

[SUjagTILLiDIE]

Explain this for me ... we are talking about FOOTBALL and you immediately run to basketball. Till I Die just stated that some of the Southland schools play TWO guarantee football games to get what we do with the so-called "bodybag" games in basketball. What's the difference my friend? That conference chooses to let it's football teams take the hits and the SWAC chooses to let it's basketball teams take it. I don't see much of a difference. End result: More money for your athletic department.

Fact is, if the rest of FCS is content to play in front of nobody on Thanksgiving weekend when they could move back one weekend, have more fans, more financial support and make more money and only four teams would have to worry about Christmas weekend, which by the way, has become a HUGE FOOTBALL WEEKEND ANYWAY, then by all means continue. Despite some of the decisions that have come out of the SWAC and my school specifically, this is one I'm glad they have made and will continue to support.

TT and his spinning is xlolx .

[SUjagTILLiDIE]

The Southland Conference has a financial gap between the Texas schools and those in Louisiana, Arkansas. There are schools who are playing two guarantee games, but you are not seeing 8-10 money games in basketball at these institutions, like you do in the SWAC.

The SWAC schools play guarantee games and/or Classics that are all 'one in the same' - another game that is away from campus. Have you seen SWAC on campus attendance? It ranks behind several conferences as far as FCS attendance goes. The SWAC relies on the "events" that are the Classics to claim their "attendance crown".

Outside of Texas Southern and perhaps Prairie View A&M, you have eight schools struggling financially to put together a Division I product. The SWAC in some circles is considered Division I in "name only" and based on recent results for your Southern men's basketball team, it may not be hard to disagree!

TT you are funny. Very funny. So whats the difference.

[Panther88]

TT you are funny. Very funny. So whats the difference.

*raises hand to answer*

I KNOW! I KNOW!

One ball is round and the other is cylindrical? xconfusedx

[mikebigg]

*raises hand to answer*

I KNOW! I KNOW!

One ball is round and the other is cylindrical? xconfusedx

Yep, and we told them what they can do with the one that's cylindrical : )

[Big Al]

The problem isn't the NCAA or the SWAC. It's both of them. Neither group is able to look outside their current worldview to see how things could be rather than how they have been in the past.

What if the proposed Legacy Bowl was also a first-round playoff game?

Unlike the rest of FCS, the SWAC and other HBCU's have been able to monetize some of their games as "Classics". They should do so, especially considering how poorly funded most of their athletics programs are.

However, considering how poor the funding remains despite the Classics, I think the SWAC should be actively looking at other avenues to boost their profile.

[Aho_Old_Guy]

*raises hand to answer*

I KNOW! I KNOW!

One ball is round and the other is cylindrical? xconfusedx

Well ... to put my decades of public education in the Great State of North Carolina to work, a football is officially an oblate spheroid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oblate_spheroid), or fully defined ....


a rotationally symmetric ellipsoid having a polar axis shorter than the diameter of the equatorial circle whose plane bisects it

We may be Hillbilly Rednecks in Watauga County but gol-leee we be well edjumacated in matters of the X-. Y- and Z-planes.

xlolx

[Mr. C]

This thread is fraught with misconceptions and inaccurate information all over the place, so let's set some things straight with facts.

1. I was with Jim O'Day last week when he repeated much of the information that was quoted here. I don't know what Dane thought was proven wrong about O'Day's comments. It is a fact that the schools who play in the championship game are looking at about $100,000 extra to pay for keeping their athletes and support staff around during the Christmas/New Year's break. The NCAA hasn't yet paid the tab for that. Perhaps they will do so in the future.

2. It is totally wrong to say that the NCAA is "making" money on the NCAA Division I National Football Championship playoffs. Damani Leech, the point person at the NCAA for the FCS playoffs, said at last week's summit that the NCAA runs about a $400,000 deficit for the playoffs. There is money that comes from the NCAA basketball tournament to help fund all of the NCAA championship at Divisions I-II and III that have deficit. A budget is developed for each championship, based on revenue, to pay expenses. Most NCAA championship events have deficit spending.

3. Once and for all can we finally understand that the SWAC used to have an automatic bid to what was then the I-AA playoffs? College Sporting News has a link that includes all playoff results from 1978-2009 (soon the be updated for the 2010 season) that comes directly from NCAA sources. The article is titled "NCAA FCS Playoffs Complete Results 1978-2009" and the link is here: http://www.collegesportingnews.com/content.php?366-NCAA-FCS-Playoffs-Complete-Results-1978-2009 .

Here are a list of years where the SWAC had auto bids:

1981-1982 (8 teams): AQs: Big Sky, MEAC, OVC, Yankee, SWAC, Independent; 2 at-large

1985 (12 teams): AQs: Big Sky, OVC, Southern, Southland, SWAC, Yankee, 2 Independents; 4 at-large
1986 (16 teams): AQs: Big Sky, MEAC, Gateway, OVC, Southern, Southland, Yankee, 2 Independents; 7 at-large


4. The NCAA and the football committee had no need to look at a different schedule until this year, when the expanded playoffs required them to do so. There were extensive discussions on this and a number of ideas that were looked at, including starting the season a week earlier and, consequently, (like is done at Division II) move the start of the playoffs up a week. Cost effectiveness was the main reason the current schedule was adopted. Better to let two schools face additional costs than the 125 or so that would have been effected by starting the season early. There was also a dead-on-arrival idea to play without a bye week, but no one wanted to play straight through the schedule without an off-week. That would have also been a killer for scheduling.

5. Anyone who thinks that the entire group of FCS conferences wasn't consulted about the changes being considered for the playoffs doesn't know how the system works. Of course, we know that it is the choice of the Ivy League not to participate and for the SWAC to schedule its championship game for the slot it decides to play it. It is also the choice of Grambling, Southern and Alabama State to play those classics when they decide to play them.

A side note to this is that ALL of the FCS conferences were represented at the FCS Summit in Frisco last week. Trust me, there were plenty of interesting discussions going on about all sorts of subjects with this diverse group of people, including additional playoff expansion. Most of us would love to see ALL of the FCS conferences involved in the playoffs.

To Big Al:

Your idea on including a Legacy Bowl in the playoff structure was an interesting one, but one that would be unworkable on many fronts. No one would want to have to play a first-round game every year against the same conference. It wouldn't be fair to have two conferences locked into spots and precluded from possible seeds, byes etc.

[Panther88]

Well ... to put my decades of public education in the Great State of North Carolina to work, a football is officially an oblate spheroid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oblate_spheroid), or fully defined ....
We may be Hillbilly Rednecks in Watauga County but gol-leee we be well edjumacated in matters of the X-. Y- and Z-planes.
xlolx

OMFG! LMMFAO!!!!! xlolx

[Tribe4SF]

This thread is fraught with misconceptions and inaccurate information all over the place, so let's set some things straight with facts.

1. I was with Jim O'Day last week when he repeated much of the information that was quoted here. I don't know what Dane thought was proven wrong about O'Day's comments. It is a fact that the schools who play in the championship game are looking at about $100,000 extra to pay for keeping their athletes and support staff around during the Christmas/New Year's break. The NCAA hasn't yet paid the tab for that. Perhaps they will do so in the future.

.

Where did you see, or hear this figure verified other than from Jim O'Day? Did you ask any of the two teams people about their actual costs?

[Big Al]

To Big Al:

Your idea on including a Legacy Bowl in the playoff structure was an interesting one, but one that would be unworkable on many fronts. No one would want to have to play a first-round game every year against the same conference. It wouldn't be fair to have two conferences locked into spots and precluded from possible seeds, byes etc.

All of your points are correct. However, doing things the same way for the past 30+ years means the FCS playoffs lose money. Clearly, the HBCUs of FCS have figured out how to make money with their classics -- to the point that the SWAC doesn't participate in the playoffs.

This is a case where I think changing the rules away from "what's fair" could have the positive result of increasing interest in and the profitability of the FCS playoffs.

[Panther88]

for the past 30+ years means the FCS playoffs lose money.

lol

[TexasTerror]

Where did you see, or hear this figure verified other than from Jim O'Day? Did you ask any of the two teams people about their actual costs?

I believe Mr. C's monetary remarks.

Based on what I know per diem is for student-athletes from my own experience from working in college athletics (in a state that probably hands out lower per diem), I can come up with nearly 50k of that easy.

If these student-athletes are on campus for at least 20 days with a closed dorm and you are handing out $30 per day (on the low end) and giving said $30 to 65 student-athletes, that is $39k. Depending on the housing situation and how the student-athletes are housed on campus, you can quickly reach $50k, if not exceed it. That's just the "cost of living" during the period of time and does not include a litany of other expenses.

[Tribe4SF]

I believe Mr. C's monetary remarks.

Based on what I know per diem is for student-athletes from my own experience from working in college athletics (in a state that probably hands out lower per diem), I can come up with nearly 50k of that easy.

If these student-athletes are on campus for at least 20 days with a closed dorm and you are handing out $30 per day (on the low end) and giving said $30 to 65 student-athletes, that is $39k. Depending on the housing situation and how the student-athletes are housed on campus, you can quickly reach $50k, if not exceed it. That's just the "cost of living" during the period of time and does not include a litany of other expenses.

I think the figures being tossed around are based on alot of assumptions, which may, or may not be accurate. I doubt seriously if there were 20 days on campus between the semis and the final. The teams flew to Texas on the 4th, and I would imagine got at least four days for Christmas. Don't know how it is at other schools, but other than true freshman, nearly all W&M players live off campus, and they're already compensated for that. Would like to hear from EWU and UD what their actual cost ended up being.