What does the NCAA have against FCS???

[clawman]

Why would they allow scheduling of the FCS championship game and the Cotton Bowl to overlap. Are they TRYING to detract viewer ratings?

[TexasTerror]

We've discussed this one before... and again and again...

Has to do with the Cotton Bowl anniversary and let's be frank, the NCAA only approves/denies bowl game applications and does not have much say over the bowl games.

[blukeys]

Why would they allow scheduling of the FCS championship game and the Cotton Bowl to overlap. Are they TRYING to detract viewer ratings?

Assuming that the NCAA has anything against FCS one first has to assume that they know that FCS exists or that they care that they do.

[00bluehen]

Better question is, what does ESPN have against the FCS? ESPN, who goes out of their way to shove their programming interests down your throat (Lebronmania, UConn's women's basketball, NASCAR, putrid NFL matchups, putrid bowl matchups), have done no such thing with respect to the Championship Subdivision of Division I football...and even when they air games, they go out of their way to tout whatever FBS attributes they can find.

Double-edged sword getting them to take the playoffs on. On the one hand, air time on ESPN2, ESPNU, and ESPN3 is better than nothing (because other major networks wouldn't touch FCS with a 10-foot pole)...but they get to control the content of broadcasts. This allows us to hear about 20+ FBS-transfer references (bet your asses you'll hear more about SMU and Penn State during the Chipper than you will UD or EWU programs) and BCS games (again, I'm betting on more references to Auburn-Oregon during the championship than references to previous tournament games).

[GAD]

again interest! most people have very little or no interest in anything outside BCS level FBS football, you can't force someone to like something they don't!

[Western_101]

Maybe there would be more fan interest in FCS if there was more TV coverage.

Kinda the "Chicken" or the "Egg" debate.

[ngineer]

Cotton Bowl won't get started until about 8-8:30 p.m. By then UD/EWU should be at halftime or in the early third period, and if it is a good game, people will still watch it, unless they have some connection with LSU or TxA&M. Good football is good football (whether HS or whatever level of college). If you put a good product out there, people will find it.

[HailSzczur]

More coverage, press intresest, ESPN attention drawer attention to the fact that a playoff system is a very viable and a effective method of crowning a champion. While FCS is a big deal to us, NCAA/ESPN/BCS/and any other sponors probably never want to see the FCS ever really go anywhere

[darell1976]

Maybe there would be more fan interest in FCS if there was more TV coverage.

Kinda the "Chicken" or the "Egg" debate.

I agree very much with this statement. If ABC were to televise a FCS game of the week or something like that I think that interest would grow. Look at college hockey, its big up here but very little interest down south but yet the NHL moves teams to Atlanta, Miami, LA, Phoenix, and Dallas, and people wonder where do these kids come from? I think ESPN who claims to be the worldwide leader in sports could do a better job in promoting the college game in all sports and divisions (college hockey is NOT even on their website). More tv = more exposure.

[DFW HOYA]

Cotton Bowl won't get started until about 8-8:30 p.m. By then UD/EWU should be at halftime or in the early third period, and if it is a good game, people will still watch it, unless they have some connection with LSU or TxA&M. Good football is good football (whether HS or whatever level of college). If you put a good product out there, people will find it.

ESPN won't over-promote this--either they'll be selling the Oregon-Auburn game for the following week, or the NBA Game of the Week on ESPN, having marooned this game over to ESPN2.

[elcid83]

Better question might be why the Championship Game is so late. The game should have been played this weekend.

Go Runnin' Bulldogs!

[blukeys]

Better question might be why the Championship Game is so late. The game should have been played this weekend.

Go Runnin' Bulldogs!

Christmas Eve??? Fans trying to get to Frisco on 7 days notice???

How about leaving the field at 16 and ending the season on the 17th?

Always worked ok before.

[heath]

Christmas Eve??? Fans trying to get to Frisco on 7 days notice???

How about leaving the field at 16 and ending the season on the 17th?

Always worked ok before.

Agree with you 100%. It couldn't be a money or greed issue expanding,because the market is just not that big.Would be nice for ALL teams to be done mid December and focus on that last month of recruiting.

[blukeys]

Agree with you 100%. It couldn't be a money or greed issue expanding,because the market is just not that big.Would be nice for ALL teams to be done mid December and focus on that last month of recruiting.

Hey you missed the memo, Next year we get the really bad PFL doing their one and done routine. We do all of this in order to compete against the Cotton Bowl in January. The PFL AQ will be a much bigger embarrassment than Robert Morris.

[AppMan]

I'd like to see someone try and make the business case for ESPN to promote and allocate prime slots for games which such a miniscule number of people will watch. I have a hard time understanding why some of you think it is ESPN's or the NCAA's responsibility to promote FCS football when the schools themselves won't do it. You guys demand all this respect and visibility, yet you do not require your institutions to help create it. ESPN is just like any other business which is out to make a profit. If the interest was there and the advertising can be sold, the games would be on TV.

[clawman]

[QUOTE=blukeys;1604072]Christmas Eve??? Fans trying to get to Frisco on 7 days notice???

And whens the last time you checked on a flight, short notice major holiday weekend?? The only fans there would be the ones who have their own plane or the VP who we pay to have flown wround

[caribbeanhen]

If the interest was there and the advertising can be sold, the games would be on TV.

are you saying the game is not on TV?

[henfan]

The Football Championship Subdivision needs better branding. It needs to sell itself better. It needs a championship game that is iconicized--a symbol that the average Joe can recognize and not be confused by.

Huh? This logo is pretty clear to me.
http://www.ci.frisco.tx.us/communication/PublishingImages/NCAA%20DivI_2011Football_Champ%20logo.jpg

[AppMan]

are you saying the game is not on TV?

Regular season games.

[henfan]

Only because you are a fan of an FCS school. I don't think many outsiders would see that. I honestly couldn't find that one either when I looked. It still seems vague to me since Division 1 is split into FCS and FBS.

A web search is only as good as the terms you enter. Took me less than ten seconds to find the logo you didn't think existed using the terms "NCAA", "football", "Division I", and "championship". (You're still apparently blissfully unaware that the NCAA only sponsors a single Division I football championship, which is fine but odd considering you're posting here.)

So, contrary to your uninformed opinion, the NCAA does indeed continue to brand its D-I FB Championship Game, as it has for many, many years.

Also, no problem landing sponsors for the game- AT&T, Wilson, etc.

[BirdieJack]

I like this topic as I had these discussions with a few friends of mine just the other night, over beers of course.
I would love the NCAA to sell ESPN on this idea: Every Friday or Tuesday or Wednesday night ESPN2 would get the BEST FCS matchup in the country. They could even choose it the week before instead of prior to the season to ensure the best or preceived best match-up is aired.
They could market to FB fans that on Friday(example) night, we will have the BEST Division 1 Football matchup in the country. You would think with even a little bit of marketing, it would be a better option for viewers than a lot of what's put on the tube on Friday, Tuesday or Wednesday nights? No?
All in all I do believe the NCAA(since FCS is it's D1 Football) needs to do a better job marketing FCS.

Go Jacks!!

[Redhawk2010]

I like this topic as I had these discussions with a few friends of mine just the other night, over beers of course.
I would love the NCAA to sell ESPN on this idea: Every Friday or Tuesday or Wednesday night ESPN2 would get the BEST FCS matchup in the country. They could even choose it the week before instead of prior to the season to ensure the best or preceived best match-up is aired.
They could market to FB fans that on Friday(example) night, we will have the BEST Division 1 Football matchup in the country. You would think with even a little bit of marketing, it would be a better option for viewers than a lot of what's put on the tube on Friday, Tuesday or Wednesday nights? No?
All in all I do believe the NCAA(since FCS is it's D1 Football) needs to do a better job marketing FCS.

Go Jacks!!

I see two issues with your suggestion.

1. It would be pretty difficult to be switching the schedules mid-season for a lot of different reasons. Those include travel, rest days, getting fans in the seats, etc

2. SCHOOL time missed. I know it's hard to realize because the schools make it difficult themselves, but they are still STUDENT-athletes.

[BirdieJack]

I see two issues with your suggestion.

1. It would be pretty difficult to be switching the schedules mid-season for a lot of different reasons. Those include travel, rest days, getting fans in the seats, etc

2. SCHOOL time missed. I know it's hard to realize because the schools make it difficult themselves, but they are still STUDENT-athletes.

Completely agree...but I do think if the offer was on the table to FCS schools, and the schools are truly interesting getting national-wide interest for their football program, you have to make it work, right??
I guess the two schools could always turn the invitation down, but I guess if we have FCS schools turning this invitation down, then FCS isn't as serious about football as many of us on this board would hope.

Maybe setting it up before the season starts is the way to go...this would give the schools more time to plan and gives fans time to get excited about the prospect of their game being on ESPN. I can't imgaine the excitment the Dakota Marker game in Brookings or Fargo would have if it was going to be on ESPN2!! Both places would be jarred, IMO.


Go Jacks!!

[NIU007]

Maybe FCS could advertise that they actually have a real championship game, instead of a make-believe one like in FBS. Might draw interest, get in a dig at the idiocy of how FBS does things now, and also be in line with most FBS fans' perceptions (and thus intrigue them a little) that there should be a playoff instead of a vote.

[The Eagle's Cliff]

The reason we have divisions of D1 football into BCS, Non-BCS FBS, and FCS is the answer to this thread. "College Football", as it's understood by the general public, refers to BCS schools. The rest of us are just that - "the rest of us". There are 210 Nielson TV Markets which are dominated by 64 BCS schools. A few of the other 180 D1 football schools have found a niche with Regional Sports networks like Fox and CSS or they play on Tuesday or Wednesday night to fill an ESPN void.

South Florida is attractive because of the Tampa Market and has become a viable BCS school, but it'll never equal Miami, UF, or FSU. Yankeeland is Pro Sports, Hockey, and Basketball territory, so Penn St is huge and...

In MLB, is any game more hyped than Red Sox vs Yankees? Remember a few weeks ago when the Jets and Pats were going to play, that was pretty much the only topic on ESPN for the whole week? Call Colin Cowherd (an Eastern Washington alumnus) and try to talk FCS. He'll tell you quickly that his job is to get as many people as possible to listen. The quickest, easiest way to get a large sports audience is to have some type of New York vs New England matchup.

FCS football programs who want to grow will either need to beat Michigan or go the way of Troy.

[NIU007]

With ESPN it's very much a chicken and egg scenario. BCS schools get all the attention because of so many fans. But that coverage of BCS schools by the media - newspapers, ESPN, network news, etc., to the exclusion of non-BCS schools makes it next to impossible to garner large numbers of fans for the non-BCS schools.

[JohnStOnge]

Until a few weeks ago I didn't realize the FCS was going to wait three weeks to have its championship game and I think it was foolish to do so. I know they thought there wouldn't be a bowl game on January 7 but still....

The bowl games that have been going on so far have pretty much been awful. Even when they've been close, "exciting" games it's been matchups like Florida International vs. Toledo. Also, why NOT have the FCS championship game on Christmas since Christmas happened to fall a week after the last semifinal? Nothing ELSE good was on and I doubt players playing in a national title game or their famiilies would've cared. It would've been a lot better to have it on Christmas than when they're having it.

Hopefully they learned something from this experience. Don't friggin' have a playoff week by week then wait three weeks after the semifinals to have the championship game. To me that's brain dead. There would've been NO problem finding a time slot within 7 to 10 days after the semifinals such that there was no football viewing competition.

[Redhawk2010]

The bowl games that have been going on so far have pretty much been awful. Even when they've been close, "exciting" games it's been matchups like Florida International vs. Toledo. Also, why NOT have the FCS championship game on Christmas since Christmas happened to fall a week after the last semifinal? Nothing ELSE good was on and I doubt players playing in a national title game or their famiilies would've cared. It would've been a lot better to have it on Christmas than when they're having it.



I think this has been answered and I agree with the previous answer. Traveling over the holiday on such late notice would definitely be difficult.

BirdieJack, I'm not disagreeing with your idea. In fact, I do like it. But there are issues that have to be overcome and I don't think you could make that sort of switch in a week. Possibly making changes 2-3 weeks in advance or maybe a little more would work. SEMO seems to play at least one game on a Thursday night every year. A couple years ago the Redhawks played the 1st and 3rd weeks on Thursday nights. The 3rd week game was on ESPNU. It's definitely something that I think should be considered, but there are issues to overcome in order to make it work..

[henfan]

Good to know, but would the average fan know who was sponsoring the FCS National title game without doing research? No question about it, people know that this year's BC$ National title game is being sponsored by Tostitos.

You're really stretching here. Does any fan really care who the sponsors are of a particular game?

FWIW, I had no idea who was sponsoring the BCS title game until you told me, nor do I care... nor will I watch the game.

[McNeese72]

You're really stretching here. Does any fan really care who the sponsors are of a particular game?

FWIW, I had no idea who was sponsoring the BCS title game until you told me, nor do I care... nor will I watch the game.

:) I just laughed when I realized that I know the exact date when the FCS Championship is being played but I have no idea when the date is for the BCS Game. :)

[caribbeanhen]

You're really stretching here. Does any fan really care who the sponsors are of a particular game?

FWIW, I had no idea who was sponsoring the BCS title game until you told me, nor do I care... nor will I watch the game.

agree with all that except I might watch the BCS game but not really planning on it

[JohnStOnge]

I think this has been answered and I agree with the previous answer. Traveling over the holiday on such late notice would definitely be difficult.

Oh c'mon. I didn't see the answer you're referring to but if it's the idea that it'd be difficult to travel over a holiday I'm not buying it. If they'd have scheduled the championship game all along to be on something like Christmas Eve, Christmas, or the day after Christmas it would've been fine. Well, this year in particular there were complications because of the weather. But that was the weather, not the fact that it was the holidays. Weather can be a problem at any time.

[BlueHenSinfonian]

Oh c'mon. I didn't see the answer you're referring to but if it's the idea that it'd be difficult to travel over a holiday I'm not buying it. If they'd have scheduled the championship game all along to be on something like Christmas Eve, Christmas, or the day after Christmas it would've been fine. Well, this year in particular there were complications because of the weather. But that was the weather, not the fact that it was the holidays. Weather can be a problem at any time.

For anyone with kids (well, younger kids) Christmas would have been a major problem - try selling the idea to your wife or kids that you want to have Christmas in a hotel room in Frisco, TX so that you can go watch a football game, or that daddy won't be there to watch the kids opening their presents because he went on his own. Even for those without small children, there are a lot of holiday familial commitments that would take precedence over the game for all but the most die-hard of fans. Plus, airfare, especially short notice airfare, is much higher on Christmas and/or New Years than on the 7th.

It probably wouldn't have been as much of an issue if the game were still in a more East-coast accessible location, then for at least half the fans it could be drivable and possibly done as a day trip, but as it is, a Christmas-day game would have absolutely killed attendance.

[blukeys]

For anyone with kids (well, younger kids) Christmas would have been a major problem - try selling the idea to your wife or kids that you want to have Christmas in a hotel room in Frisco, TX so that you can go watch a football game, or that daddy won't be there to watch the kids opening their presents because he went on his own. Even for those without small children, there are a lot of holiday familial commitments that would take precedence over the game for all but the most die-hard of fans. Plus, airfare, especially short notice airfare, is much higher on Christmas and/or New Years than on the 7th.

It probably wouldn't have been as much of an issue if the game were still in a more East-coast accessible location, then for at least half the fans it could be drivable and possibly done as a day trip, but as it is, a Christmas-day game would have absolutely killed attendance.

I have to agree with BHS over JSO on this one. If one had a 4 week period to plan and book rooms and travel one can get reasonable rates. Go to http://gohens.net and you will see that the extra time really helped cost wise.

I have traveled over the Christmas holidays and it is a bear. Forget about trying to get book something on December 18th for a Christmas Eve. Game.

Now for those who may believe that certain family commitments on Christmas morning are optional, I have this to say.
"You are going to spend the rest of your life without female companionship"

Forget the young folks who will have to explain to their wives and kiddies why they are spending a drunken weekend with a bunch of other drunks to see a football game. (female perspective)

Those of us older who have achieved the grandparent years also are loaded down with expectations.

The dirty secret is that the women in our lives start planning the Christmas ritual about August 1st. (They do this out of our sight and hearing.)

They call and then scheme with other women about how the entire day and weekend will work. The contacts are inter generational with a game plan as to which grandparents will be visited at what time. Should there be a huge family get together, anyone who is missing will be black listed for years to come. After all the guys do get permission to watch football on TV and isn't one football game just like all the rest???

A 5 day window to get travel and accomadations is tough enough. A Christmas Eve game will get the attendance of confirmed bachelors and crazy uncles.

[paytonlives]

Assuming that the NCAA has anything against FCS one first has to assume that they know that FCS exists or that they care that they do.

Someday Griz fans will figure this out...

[Maverick]

This level of college football is "local" and has been since the days of being called "small college" football many decades ago. Even on the local level there are few schools that dominate the regional media markets much less have any significant national impact. Branding can be effective if people have an interest in what is being branded. Even showing a game of the week will not have as big an impact on "growing" the FCS fan base. FCS games have been available from ESPN3.com this year. What has been the impact if any? The reality that has been stated repeatedly is that college football = BCS football. Even on the local level, what kind of draw are most FCS programs. What are the NCAA numbers on attendance in terms of filling stadium capacity? Outside of a few (Montana, App State, Ga. Sou., Delaware, to name a few) what schools are drawing locally in substantive numbers? I am not counting the HBCU classics which can skew the numbers since one of them must be the home team even though the game is not anywhere near that schools campus. I congratulate the HBCUs on having such games available, but what is the impact of these games on the national scene in terms of promoting FCS football? As to ESPN, as stated earlier as a business, what would be the return on investment for them to go full bore on FCS? What kind of numbers would they be able to show the sponsors or potential sponsors in terms of viewers and ratings? If you can't demonstrate on at least a regional level enough support for a quality business plan, anything on a national level is exponentially tougher. With all of this said, I recognize the competitive quality of FCS football and have enjoyed it as well as played it in the early 70's, attended an FCS championship game in Wichita Falls (damn froze to death) while in the Air Force, followed local schools while working at FBS schools before finishing my career at an FCS school. But the sad reality is that we as individual schools (with a few exceptions) and collectively on regional and national basis are the red-headed stepchild in the sport. I see no situation under which such a disadvantage could be overcome. But I refuse to let that interfere with my enjoyment and appreciation of FCS football.

[AAadict]

) But I refuse to let that interfere with my enjoyment and appreciation of FCS football.

Good points but a tough read without paragraphs. We AGS fans bleed FCS...the rest of the country doesn't much care. Some day it will all be FBS in IMO.

[Seawolf97]

This level of college football is "local" and has been since the days of being called "small college" football many decades ago. Even on the local level there are few schools that dominate the regional media markets much less have any significant national impact. Branding can be effective if people have an interest in what is being branded. Even showing a game of the week will not have as big an impact on "growing" the FCS fan base. FCS games have been available from ESPN3.com this year. What has been the impact if any? The reality that has been stated repeatedly is that college football = BCS football. Even on the local level, what kind of draw are most FCS programs. What are the NCAA numbers on attendance in terms of filling stadium capacity? Outside of a few (Montana, App State, Ga. Sou., Delaware, to name a few) what schools are drawing locally in substantive numbers? I am not counting the HBCU classics which can skew the numbers since one of them must be the home team even though the game is not anywhere near that schools campus. I congratulate the HBCUs on having such games available, but what is the impact of these games on the national scene in terms of promoting FCS football? As to ESPN, as stated earlier as a business, what would be the return on investment for them to go full bore on FCS? What kind of numbers would they be able to show the sponsors or potential sponsors in terms of viewers and ratings? If you can't demonstrate on at least a regional level enough support for a quality business plan, anything on a national level is exponentially tougher. With all of this said, I recognize the competitive quality of FCS football and have enjoyed it as well as played it in the early 70's, attended an FCS championship game in Wichita Falls (damn froze to death) while in the Air Force, followed local schools while working at FBS schools before finishing my career at an FCS school. But the sad reality is that we as individual schools (with a few exceptions) and collectively on regional and national basis are the red-headed stepchild in the sport. I see no situation under which such a disadvantage could be overcome. But I refuse to let that interfere with my enjoyment and appreciation of FCS football.
Well stated. This years national champ to the college football community (Fans not aware of FCS) will be Oregon or Auburn , not EWU or Delaware. We are still the small fry in a big pond. A pond lined with FBS/BCS money.

[superman7515]

I see a lot of people saying that the NCAA didn't know that the Cotton Bowl was going to be played on January 7, but that was actually in the bid that Chattanooga put together a year ago, so they certainly did know. One of Chatty's sticking points was that you wouldn't have a BCS bowl game right down the street at the exact same time and therefore wouldn't lose the local press and PR for the game.

UPDATE: Division One FCS Championship is Headed to Frisco (http://www.newschannel9.com/articles/game-989084-division-championship.html)


With the championship game scheduled for January 7, 2011, it would be the only football game held in Chattanooga on that day. Dallas is scheduled to host the FBS Cotton Bowl the same day as the FCS game and is also hosting the Super Bowl a few weeks later.

“I hope they give these FCS teams the attention they deserve in the midst of all that,” Greater Chattanooga Sports and Events Committee President Scott Smith said.