Frazier Wanted More - A National Championship SWAC Did Not Provide

[TexasTerror]

According to this blogger, Henry Frazier III left PVAMU for NCCU - not just because of the family situation, but because he wanted a chance to compete for something more - a national championship.

The SWAC obviously has its obstacles, but now the MEAC has another coach on board in desiring a national championship - instead of the Legacy Classic.


It may look like a lateral move going from one FCS school to another. It’s actually a move forward. Obviously Frazier has to win much like he did at PVAMU to still be considered for an FBS job. Still this is a better situation for him than PVAMU was.

He talked about being closer to this family. The Washington, DC native said that he had been selfish for years in moving his wife and children to Texas, away from home. Now he’s a lot closer to home, where his mom, who had only seen him coach twice in seven seasons at Prairie View A&M, can now see him more regularly.

And while those things are true, I contend one of the main reasons for Frazier coming to NCCU is now he has the opportunity to play for a national championship. At Prairie View A&M you can play for either the SWAC Championship or the Black College National Championship. NCCU will be able to compete for the MEAC crown next season and the conference winner receives an automatic bid to the Division I national playoffs.

He outlined a five-year plan which includes: in 1-2 having a winning season; in a 2-3 year period winning conference championships; 3-5 years winning playoff games and competing for a national championship; a top 10 team in the country; the APR (Academic Progress Rate) being over 940; and the graduation rate being above 75 percent. I like the last two and it’s not just lip service. Frazier has his Masters.

http://www.wralsportsfan.com/voices/blogpost/8804949/

[Blueandwhitefightfight]

I don't know why the Ivy League and SWAC are so full of themselves. The Ivy League acts like they are too smart for the playoffs. I have a friend at Harvard and supposedly they don't compete in the playoffs because of the academic stress. Why are they even playing football at all then? It's basically a glorified club team.

The SWAC acts like it's pre-Civils Rights era and nobody told them segregation is no more. I understand the traditions are deep in that conference. But why not just have a conference championship game (yes that would mean dropping an OOC game and/or starting the season a week earlier) AND go to the playoffs and see if you can get to a REAL national championship. I don't know why they act so high and mighty sometimes. The MEAC is made up of HBCUs too. They compete with everyone else. Why not the SWAC?

[JSUBison]

I don't know why the Ivy League and SWAC are so full of themselves. The Ivy League acts like they are too smart for the playoffs. I have a friend at Harvard and supposedly they don't compete in the playoffs because of the academic stress. Why are they even playing football at all then? It's basically a glorified club team.

The SWAC acts like it's pre-Civils Rights era and nobody told them segregation is no more. I understand the traditions are deep in that conference. But why not just have a conference championship game (yes that would mean dropping an OOC game and/or starting the season a week earlier) AND go to the playoffs and see if you can get to a REAL national championship. I don't know why they act so high and mighty sometimes. The MEAC is made up of HBCUs too. They compete with everyone else. Why not the SWAC?

Can't argue with that. Also, does Tuskegee and the other HBCU in Division 2 participate in the playoffs? I don't believe they do. That is more of a head scratcher than the SWAC staying out of the playoffs, imho.

Come on SWAC/Ivy, join the party! Once you get a taste of playoff fever you'll be kicking yourselves for being out of it. Personally I had one foot in the "let's go FBS camp", but after the excitement and good times NDSU had this year with their run, I am in the FCS playoffs fan club 100%.

[WileECoyote06]

Just some explanations for clarity.

-The SWAC has competed in the NCAA I-AA playoffs in the past.

-The SWAC is eligible for a playoff bid; they just do not have an autobid. There are three teams which are ineligible for the playoffs because their regular season has not completed: Grambling, Southern, and Alabama State. All three participate in nationally televised classic games over the Thanksgiving weekend.

-A SWAC team may gain entrance to the playoffs under the bridge qualifications, provided they do not qualify for the SWAC Championship game. In 2008, Prairie View finished 9 - 1 and was eligible for a berth; but the participant representing the west in the SWAC championship had not been determined as they awaited the Bayou Classic results.

-Tuskegee is the only Division II HBCU which does not finish its regular season before the playoffs start; and that's why they are ineligible. They play Alabama State in the annual Turkey Day Classic. This year the SIAC had two teams advance to the Division II playoffs: Albany State, who finished #1 in Super Region II; and Morehouse who finished #5 in the region. The CIAA sent their lone representative; Shaw to play Shepherd in the Super Region I playoffs.

We are happy to welcome Coach Frazier to the Sloping Hills and Verdant Green of NCCU. I hope he enjoys his stay.

[JohnStOnge]

I have a friend at Harvard and supposedly they don't compete in the playoffs because of the academic stress.

Have you asked your friend why, if academic stress is the issue, the Ivy league competes in NCAA tournaments for other sports? Why can they compete in the NCAA Baseball playoffs? What about the NCAA Basketball tournament?

There's no "academic stress" on baseball players and basketball players?

At least the SWAC says it's doing what it does for financial reasons. That has a lot more of a ring of truth to it. The Ivy League's rationale has "bogus" wirtten all over it.

[Panther88]

Just some explanations for clarity.

-The SWAC has competed in the NCAA I-AA playoffs in the past.

-The SWAC is eligible for a playoff bid; they just do not have an autobid. There are three teams which are ineligible for the playoffs because their regular season has not completed: Grambling, Southern, and Alabama State. All three participate in nationally televised classic games over the Thanksgiving weekend.

-A SWAC team may gain entrance to the playoffs under the bridge qualifications, provided they do not qualify for the SWAC Championship game. In 2008, Prairie View finished 9 - 1 and was eligible for a berth; but the participant representing the west in the SWAC championship had not been determined as they awaited the Bayou Classic results.

-Tuskegee is the only Division II HBCU which does not finish its regular season before the playoffs start; and that's why they are ineligible. They play Alabama State in the annual Turkey Day Classic. This year the SIAC had two teams advance to the Division II playoffs: Albany State, who finished #1 in Super Region II; and Morehouse who finished #5 in the region. The CIAA sent their lone representative; Shaw to play Shepherd in the Super Region I playoffs.

We are happy to welcome Coach Frazier to the Sloping Hills and Verdant Green of NCCU. I hope he enjoys his stay.
Nice explanation.

[bonarae]

I don't know why the Ivy League and SWAC are so full of themselves. The Ivy League acts like they are too smart for the playoffs. I have a friend at Harvard and supposedly they don't compete in the playoffs because of the academic stress. Why are they even playing football at all then? It's basically a glorified club team.

The Ivy League has its finals before Christmas holidays, partly that may explain why we don't participate in the playoffs. Frisco or Chattanooga, it doesn't matter. We must have the finals to be on site. But I still hope and dream that the Presidents should let the players have their finals ahead (i.e. after the last regular season game) of their non-football peers.

How can you compare the playoff systems (road to Chattanooga and road to Frisco) in terms of dates? Are they spaced a week apart?



Come on SWAC/Ivy, join the party! Once you get a taste of playoff fever you'll be kicking yourselves for being out of it. Personally I had one foot in the "let's go FBS camp", but after the excitement and good times NDSU had this year with their run, I am in the FCS playoffs fan club 100%.

I still hope that within my lifetime, they will eventually join it because we are getting humiliated by the playoff-playing opponents every now and then. They may think that joining the race to Frisco has its benefits and drawbacks, but more of the benefits (i.e. leveling the playing field).

Fortunately, unlike most other Ivy fans, I also cheer for a playoff-participating team (usually App State or Montana or anyone who beats an FBS team).


Have you asked your friend why, if academic stress is the issue, the Ivy league competes in NCAA tournaments for other sports? Why can they compete in the NCAA Baseball playoffs? What about the NCAA Basketball tournament?

There's no "academic stress" on baseball players and basketball players?

At least the SWAC says it's doing what it does for financial reasons. That has a lot more of a ring of truth to it. The Ivy League's rationale has "bogus" wirtten all over it.

"Bogus"? See the first paragraph in this post.

Harvard's baseball season starts March 4 and ends May 1. Ivy League baseball ends its season with the Ivy League championship series on May 7 and 8, but I'm not sure whether the finals are given before that (if Harvard gets into that at all). The road to Omaha starts in early June, though. (Compare Harvard's schedule with Fullerton's or LSU's, both start late February, but Fullerton's ends Memorial Day Weekend and LSU has a tournament to play after the regular season ends on May 21.)

Harvard basketball intentionally schedules December layoffs because of finals. Harvard had an 11 day layoff for finals before the UConn game, where we lost by a wide margin.

[TexasTerror]

The Ivy League has its finals before Christmas holidays, partly that may explain why we don't participate in the playoffs. Frisco or Chattanooga, it doesn't matter. We must have the finals to be on site. But I still hope and dream that the Presidents should let the players have their finals ahead (i.e. after the last regular season game) of their non-football peers.

Many schools down in the South have finals before the Christmas holidays... this is not unusual in the least bit.


Harvard basketball intentionally schedules December layoffs because of finals. Harvard had an 11 day layoff for finals before the UConn game, where we lost by a wide margin.

A lot of schools schedule lay-offs due to finals. A few teams I have been affiliated with over the years have 7-10 day lay-offs. Not unusual..

There may be legitimate academic reasoning behind this Ivy League decision-making, but the two examples you provided above do not show anything one way or another to prove it.

[JohnStOnge]

"Bogus"? See the first paragraph in this post.

Harvard's baseball season starts March 4 and ends May 1. Ivy League baseball ends its season with the Ivy League championship series on May 7 and 8, but I'm not sure whether the finals are given before that (if Harvard gets into that at all). The road to Omaha starts in early June, though. (Compare Harvard's schedule with Fullerton's or LSU's, both start late February, but Fullerton's ends Memorial Day Weekend and LSU has a tournament to play after the regular season ends on May 21.)

Yes I see it as bogus. FCS football players who advance in the playoffs have to work their finals in under playoff circumstances all the time and God in heaven didn't send down some decree saying finals have to be taken on campus. If I heard the TV people calling the game correctly last week, Villanova's players had to take their finals during a week when they were having to travel clear across the country to Eastern Washington. Nobody's going to make me believe Harvard or any other Ivy league school couldn't make provisions for the relatively infrequent occasions upon which any one school's football players are going to have to take finals during a playoff tournament.

Plus I know of at least one other NCAA sport such that the championship tournament period occupies a time frame similar to that of the FCS football tournament yet the Ivy League participates in the national championship tournament. The 2010 NCAA womens' volleyball tournment began on December 2 and ended with Penn State beating Cal in the championship game on December 18 (http://www.ncaa.com/brackets/volleyball-women/d1/2011). December 18 is when the FCS playoff would've ended if we still had the 16 team format instead of being in the first year of 20 teams. And Penn was in the tournament with the Ivy League's automatic bid.

So is the Ivy League, by having a conference tournament for womens' volley ball to produce an auto bid representative to the NCAA tournament, saying womens' volleyball players can do it but football players can't? Ok. I admit womens' volleyball players are probably smarter on average. But is it politically correct to say that?

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2702/4178154017_3ddc0d290e.jpg

[Mr. C]

The finals thing is indeed TOTALLY bogus. The REAL reason that the Ivy League doesn't compete in the playoffs is that Harvard and Yale (note this is TWO teams impacting the rest of the league) feel like the playoffs would detract from their season-ending showdown. It is audacious enough to call your rivalry "The Game," but when the tail wags the dog to the extreme that TWO schools decide the playoff fate of an entire league, you audacity that is truly priceless. There is a huge amount of resentment at many of the other schools, particularly places like Penn and Brown, but that isn't enough to overcome the arrogance and absurdity of the folks at Harvard and Yale.

[Mr. C]

Yes I see it as bogus. FCS football players who advance in the playoffs have to work their finals in under playoff circumstances all the time and God in heaven didn't send down some decree saying finals have to be taken on campus. If I heard the TV people calling the game correctly last week, Villanova's players had to take their finals during a week when they were having to travel clear across the country to Eastern Washington. Nobody's going to make me believe Harvard or any other Ivy league school couldn't make provisions for the relatively infrequent occasions upon which any one school's football players are going to have to take finals during a playoff tournament.

Plus I know of at least one other NCAA sport such that the championship tournament period occupies a time frame similar to that of the FCS football tournament yet the Ivy League participates in the national championship tournament. The 2010 NCAA womens' volleyball tournment began on December 2 and ended with Penn State beating Cal in the championship game on December 18 (http://www.ncaa.com/brackets/volleyball-women/d1/2011). December 18 is when the FCS playoff would've ended if we still had the 16 team format instead of being in the first year of 20 teams. And Penn was in the tournament with the Ivy League's automatic bid.

So is the Ivy League, by having a conference tournament for womens' volley ball to produce an auto bid representative to the NCAA tournament, saying womens' volleyball players can do it but football players can't? Ok. I admit womens' volleyball players are probably smarter on average. But is it politically correct to say that?

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2702/4178154017_3ddc0d290e.jpg
Jay Mills, the one-time offensive coordinator for Harvard under Tim Murphy and now the head coach at Charleston Southern, likes to point out that Harvard fields teams in 42 or 43 sports (I don't remember the exact number) and that all but one of them are free to compete in the postseason. The ONE that doesn't is football. No argument can overcome the lunacy of that.

[WMTribe90]

WM has finals before the Christmas break. In those years where WM has made it out of the first round our players are studying for and taking finals while preparing for a playoff game. If WM can make it work and graduate close to 100% of players, there is no academic based excuse for the Ivy's not participating in the playoffs.

[Blueandwhitefightfight]

Georgia Southern has finals before the break as well.

We had players that took finals mon-thurs, went to practice after finals each day, got on a bus Friday morning and went to Spartanburg, graduated in Spartanburg in a special ceremony held that night by President Keel, and beat Wofford the next day.

[eaglesrthe1]

Any Ivy league entrant would be done WELL before Christmas. j/k

[JohnStOnge]

WM has finals before the Christmas break. In those years where WM has made it out of the first round our players are studying for and taking finals while preparing for a playoff game. If WM can make it work and graduate close to 100% of players, there is no academic based excuse for the Ivy's not participating in the playoffs.

I'm sure Harvard also has a high player graduation rate. Couldn't find it quickly on line but I'm sure it does. The school boasts having a 98% overall graduation rate and I've also seen 97% reported.

Which brings up something I've thought for a long time: If you've got a 98% or 97% graduation rate, please don't tell me that passing in your school is "challenging" for the population comprising your student body. And if you've got something like a 90+% graduation rate among football players, please don't tell me that graduating as a football player from that school is "challenging" given the population your dealing with.

If something is "challenging" for a particular population, you're not going to have everybody or nearly everybody who undertakes it succeed. Don'[t tell me that if you've got 90+% of football players graduating that exam time represents something SO tough for them that they can't handle participating in the playoffs if it should happen that they advance far enough to have to worry about that.

[mikebigg]

Has the SWAC ever turned down a playoff bid? The answer is no!

[3rd Coast Tiger]

Has the SWAC ever turned down a playoff bid? The answer is no!

Never.

[TexasTerror]

Has the SWAC ever turned down a playoff bid? The answer is no!

When was the last time the SWAC received a playoff bid? Late 1990s? The league clearly has positioned itself in a way that it has no interest in competing for a national championship, let alone field teams capable of competing at a high level of Division I FCS.

Why does it matter??? If the SWAC continued the nine-game mandate and all the SWAC teams were eligible to receive an at-large bid without an automatic bid, they wouldn't be much different than the Pioneer League, IMO.

Henry Frazier III got tired of competing for a SWAC title and tired of being away from his roots on the East Coast. He gets the best of both worlds - personal and professional - in the MEAC.

[gophoenix]

Yes, the SIAC and CIAA participate in the playoffs except for Tuskegee.

[3rd Coast Tiger]

Henry Frazier III got tired of competing for a SWAC title and tired of being away from his roots on the East Coast. He gets the best of both worlds - personal and professional - in the MEAC.

And you specifically know this from over the phone or face to face conversations with Coach Fraizer? Or was it when you and the Mrs. enjoyed a nice steak and red wine over dinner with him and Mrs. Frazier? xconfusedx

[gram4life]

And you specifically know this from over the phone or face to face conversations with Coach Fraizer? Or was it when you and the Mrs. enjoyed a nice steak and red wine over dinner with him and Mrs. Frazier? xconfusedx

It's BS because before he signed with PV, other schools in the MEAC wanted him, they go to the playoffs and he choose the SWAC. TT sometimes you just throw it out hoping it sticks.

[3rd Coast Tiger]

TT sometimes you just throw it out hoping it sticks.

Or hoping someone bites.

[Panther88]

Let me add a small wrinkle to the already assuming fabric of notions. :)

Actually, it was time for Coach Frzr to go, for professional advancement. xreadx unt's ad and prez are very spineless, lower case because I lost a lot of respect for them and their inept decision making. 07/2010 was the date of the actual HCIW position being discussed and planned for, although the public found out in latter 10/2010.

Hope Coach Frzr does well @ NCCU, except when ;) he plays PVAMU. :)

[TexasTerror]

And you specifically know this from over the phone or face to face conversations with Coach Fraizer? Or was it when you and the Mrs. enjoyed a nice steak and red wine over dinner with him and Mrs. Frazier? xconfusedx

a) He stated he wanted to be closer to his family (that's personal)
b) He outlined winning a national championship in year 3-5 (that's professional)

He's got the best of both worlds and success in competing for the NCAA Division I Football Championship is more likely to translate to reaching the FBS level than anything in the SWAC. Going from FCS to FCS should be pretty lateral, unless you are going from non-scholarship to scholarship. Funny thing is two SWAC coaches have left for schools in which playoffs are likely. Leaving the SWAC for the rest of FCS, an upgrade perhaps?

[gram4life]

a) He stated he wanted to be closer to his family (that's personal)
b) He outlined winning a national championship in year 3-5 (that's professional)

He's got the best of both worlds and success in competing for the NCAA Division I Football Championship is more likely to translate to reaching the FBS level than anything in the SWAC. Going from FCS to FCS should be pretty lateral, unless you are going from non-scholarship to scholarship. Funny thing is two SWAC coaches have left for schools in which playoffs are likely. Leaving the SWAC for the rest of FCS, an upgrade perhaps?

If he moved to FCS playoff school wouldn't you expect him to have that in his outline. Who would want to hire him if he said I only want to get close to home and maybe win a conference title. Come on man.

[Blueandwhitefightfight]

If he moved to FCS playoff school wouldn't you expect him to have that in his outline. Who would want to hire him if he said I only want to get close to home and maybe win a conference title. Come on man.

Savannah State? Heck, he could get away with saying he just wants to win half of the games there!

[mikebigg]

Has the SWAC ever turned down a playoff bid? The answer is no!


When was the last time the SWAC received a playoff bid? Late 1990s? The league clearly has positioned itself in a way that it has no interest in competing for a national championship, let alone field teams capable of competing at a high level of Division I FCS.

Why does it matter??? If the SWAC continued the nine-game mandate and all the SWAC teams were eligible to receive an at-large bid without an automatic bid, they wouldn't be much different than the Pioneer League, IMO.

Henry Frazier III got tired of competing for a SWAC title and tired of being away from his roots on the East Coast. He gets the best of both worlds - personal and professional - in the MEAC.

Why didn't you answer the question?

[bluedog]

xeyebrowx

Why didn't he just stay where he was if that's really his motivation?

Didn't they play for a national title?

Why didn't he go to the MEAC when PV hire him?

I distinctly remember his name on several MEAC schools list then?

You think coach may be lying just a tad bit or how do you say, playing to the fiddle of his fan base?


I'm sure that $1.25 mil didn't have anything to do with it.

[WileECoyote06]

Let me add a small wrinkle to the already assuming fabric of notions. :)

Actually, it was time for Coach Frzr to go, for professional advancement. xreadx unt's ad and prez are very spineless, lower case because I lost a lot of respect for them and their inept decision making. 07/2010 was the date of the actual HCIW position being discussed and planned for, although the public found out in latter 10/2010.

Hope Coach Frzr does well @ NCCU, except when ;) he plays PVAMU. :)

Which has never occurred. . we need to get on it! ;)

[mikebigg]

Which has never occurred. . we need to get on it! ;)

Be careful bruh... yall play a SWAC school and the critics will say it doesn't benefit them making the playoffs!

[Panther88]

Which has never occurred. . we need to get on it! ;)

I can assure you that both camps are in w/ this. It was the FIRST hot subject being talked about from the old regime and w/ the current one. xreadx

It will happen. Just don't know when, currently.

Also, not sure if all are aware or not but Coach Frzr has a daughter who plays D-I basketball in SC. Short drive to watch her do her thing, as well.

[WileECoyote06]

Be careful bruh... yall play Mississippi Valley State and the critics will say it doesn't benefit them making the playoffs!

Fixed that for you.

[jmufan999]

he probably left not because of the opportunity of a national title, but simply because MEAC is a step up from the SWAC. hard to believe i'm giving any credit to the MEAC at all, but they're at least a superior conference (talent-wise). first he's in the SWAC, next MEAC, next.... maybe a better conference/school. good for him. if one can make a better opportunity for oneself or one's family, good for them.

[gram4life]

he probably left not because of the opportunity of a national title, but simply because MEAC is a step up from the SWAC. hard to believe i'm giving any credit to the MEAC at all, but they're at least a superior conference (talent-wise). first he's in the SWAC, next MEAC, next.... maybe a better conference/school. good for him. if one can make a better opportunity for oneself or one's family, good for them.

Man please the MEAC is not a superior conference, the talents are equal but all that you wrote doesn't ring true,.

[bluedog]

he probably left not because of the opportunity of a national title, but simply because MEAC is a step up from the SWAC. hard to believe i'm giving any credit to the MEAC at all, but they're at least a superior conference (talent-wise). first he's in the SWAC, next MEAC, next.... maybe a better conference/school. good for him. if one can make a better opportunity for oneself or one's family, good for them.

xlmaoxxlmaoxxlmaoxxlmaoxxlmaoxxlmaoxxlmaoxxlmaoxxl maoxxlmaoxxlmaoxxlmaoxxlmaoxxlmaox

I didn't know Bernie Mac had raisen from the dead xlolx

[3rd Coast Tiger]

he probably left not because of the opportunity of a national title, but simply because MEAC is a step up from the SWAC. hard to believe i'm giving any credit to the MEAC at all, but they're at least a superior conference (talent-wise). first he's in the SWAC, next MEAC, next.... maybe a better conference/school. good for him. if one can make a better opportunity for oneself or one's family, good for them.

Superior?

How does a superior conference not advance out of the first round of the playoffs since 1999 and be considered "superior"? Oh that's right, at least they play for one right?

[Panther88]

he probably left not because of the opportunity of a national title, but simply because MEAC is a step up from the SWAC. hard to believe i'm giving any credit to the MEAC at all, but they're at least a superior conference (talent-wise). first he's in the SWAC, next MEAC, next.... maybe a better conference/school. good for him. if one can make a better opportunity for oneself or one's family, good for them.

Ask the moderators to edit your post and delete your quotes from us "SWAC folx."

This is so sad a commentary that I refuse to burn an addt'l calorie addressing this rhetoric. xsmhx

[mikebigg]

Some of yall come get me whenever TT or anyone else answers my "When has the SWAC ever turned down an invite?" question!

[BlueHenSinfonian]

Superior?

How does a superior conference not advance out of the first round of the playoffs since 1999 and be considered "superior"? Oh that's right, at least they play for one right?

This year the MEAC managed to get two teams in, so an additional team aside from the autobid is an achievement. I'd give the nod to the MEAC as superior because they know how to play by the rules, unlike the SWAC which disqualifies themselves from post-season play year after year through scheduling games against the playoffs.

The SWAC has an all-time winning record vs. the MEAC (the only conference the SWAC has a winning record against where a meaningful number of games have been played), but the advantage comes almost solely from Grambling. Also, a lot of the victories were back in the SWAC glory days. The SWAC has been getting weaker year after year, while the MEAC has been getting stronger.

[gram4life]

This year the MEAC managed to get two teams in, so an additional team aside from the autobid is an achievement. I'd give the nod to the MEAC as superior because they know how to play by the rules, unlike the SWAC which disqualifies themselves from post-season play year after year through scheduling games against the playoffs.

The SWAC has an all-time winning record vs. the MEAC (the only conference the SWAC has a winning record against where a meaningful number of games have been played), but the advantage comes almost solely from Grambling. Also, a lot of the victories were back in the SWAC glory days. The SWAC has been getting weaker year after year, while the MEAC has been getting stronger.

See this is the dumb stuff people post, 1st off the truth is only 1 team should have gotten an invite. Only reason SCST got in is because of it's close loss last year. I can't believe you even posted this about playing by the rules as the reason for giving them the node. I guess you hoping something it sticks like TT huh. I guess those blowout playoff games prove they are getting stronger.

[BlueHenSinfonian]

See this is the dumb stuff people post, 1st off the truth is only 1 team should have gotten an invite. Only reason SCST got in is because of it's close loss last year. I can't believe you even posted this about playing by the rules as the reason for giving them the node. I guess you hoping something it sticks like TT huh. I guess those blowout playoff games prove they are getting stronger.

I have no clue what you are trying to say there.

Despite losing early the playoffs, the MEAC is getting closer to some wins here and there (this year wasn't the best example). Still, I'll take the conference that actually shows up to the playoffs and takes their licks vs. the one that would rather stay home and play with themselves.

[TexasTerror]

Perception is reality, SWACites... the MEAC is a better league. The SWAC is the poorest and lowest ranked full scholarship league in the eyes of the clear majority.

Of course, it does not help when the SWAC schools refuse to play out of conference games against FCS competition and hereby isolate themselves to playing two OOC games (if they can get them - shame on those schools who do not even play a full slate).

Even the Gulf South Conference, a Div II league, feels it is equal - if not much better than the SWAC. And there's the whole issue of Tuskegee winning not only over the SWAC runner-up, but the SWAC champion, this year.

Your league has historical significance and a lot to be proud of from football players of years' past. Unfortunately, your league has hit a historic low and while it is rising, is pretty insignificant as far as on the field competition goes. Simply put - your league is more interested than money than actually putting a successful product on the field. The fans for the most part are blind to this notion, since all that ultimately matters to them is winning the SWAC, since there are no other goals within reach - since you can't considered the HBCU national championship an "on the field" accomplishment (since it is done by a poll that you guys often criticize).

[gram4life]

I have no clue what you are trying to say there.

Despite losing early the playoffs, the MEAC is getting closer to some wins here and there (this year wasn't the best example). Still, I'll take the conference that actually shows up to the playoffs and takes their licks vs. the one that would rather stay home and play with themselves.

Going to the playoff doesn't make them better, wow. How long have they been getting close, how many years?

[gram4life]

Perception is reality, SWACites... the MEAC is a better league. The SWAC is the poorest and lowest ranked full scholarship league in the eyes of the clear majority.

Of course, it does not help when the SWAC schools refuse to play out of conference games against FCS competition and hereby isolate themselves to playing two OOC games (if they can get them - shame on those schools who do not even play a full slate).

Even the Gulf South Conference, a Div II league, feels it is equal - if not much better than the SWAC. And there's the whole issue of Tuskegee winning not only over the SWAC runner-up, but the SWAC champion, this year.

Your league has historical significance and a lot to be proud of from football players of years' past. Unfortunately, your league has hit a historic low and while it is rising, is pretty insignificant as far as on the field competition goes. Simply put - your league is more interested than money than actually putting a successful product on the field. The fans for the most part are blind to this notion, since all that ultimately matters to them is winning the SWAC, since there are no other goals within reach - since you can't considered the HBCU national championship an "on the field" accomplishment (since it is done by a poll that you guys often criticize).

All that BS you posted still doesn't make the MEAC any better than the SWAC. You know the SWAC was ranked higher than the MEAC this year, it flip flops. Again TT just throw it out there hoping it sticks.

[TexasTerror]

All that BS you posted still doesn't make the MEAC any better than the SWAC. You know the SWAC was ranked higher than the MEAC this year, it flip flops. Again TT just throw it out there hoping it sticks.

Correct. The SWAC was ranked higher than the MEAC this year in the GPI. Is this the first time in the history of the GPI that this has occurred? And as I have shared before, the SWAC is as of the last 5-10 years, the lowest or second to lowest in RPI or GPI (in football - amongst full scholarship leagues) across all sports in which this is calculated - with this year's exception of football.

Perception is reality.

The reality is that Frazier is actually "stepping up" and that going from the SWAC to any other FCS job is a step up. Congrats to Frazier and again to Collins on making the progression upwards...

[3rd Coast Tiger]

This year the MEAC managed to get two teams in, so an additional team aside from the autobid is an achievement. I'd give the nod to the MEAC as superior because they know how to play by the rules, unlike the SWAC which disqualifies themselves from post-season play year after year through scheduling games against the playoffs.

Delaware State Forfeits Conference Game So they Can Beat Michigan Instead...

http://deadspin.com/5254536/delaware-state-forfeits-conference-game-so-they-can-beat-michigan-instead


A scheduling conflict has forced Delaware State to choose between a home against North Carolina A&T or a road game at Michigan. Guess how that turned out.

[bluedog]

Decade Conference Rankings (http://http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/rankings/decade_conf_rankings.php?period=2000-2009)

All Time Conference Rankings (http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/rankings/all_time_conf_rankings.php)

You can stop trying to divide TT, you've already conquerer the ones that you wanted.

[blukeys]

I have no clue what you are trying to say there.

Despite losing early the playoffs, the MEAC is getting closer to some wins here and there (this year wasn't the best example). Still, I'll take the conference that actually shows up to the playoffs and takes their licks vs. the one that would rather stay home and play with themselves.

I agree with you about the MEAC having the cahones to participate in the playoffs. The SWAC folks whining about the MEAC lack of success is laughable considering the SWAC 0-19 playoff record they achieved before they turned tail, took their football and went home.

Now as to the MEAC improving, I always laugh at these comments from people who have not been to MEAC games.

I have caught MEAC games since the days John Taylor was at DSU. (This was roughly the same time Rich Gannon was at UD). The MEAC has been improving but they are nowhere near improving at the rate of CAA or SOCON teams. These conferences improve every year. It is like a nuclear arms race and everyone knows they can't statnd still. SC State in my view is consistently the best coached and best run program but as this year showed a team with some outstanding skill players can win the MEAC.

BCU the conference champion was handled easily by UNH who in turn was throttled by UD the next week. None of this is accidental.

The MEAC has some considerable years of improvement ahead before a 2nd playoff team from that conference is deserved.

[bluedog]

I agree with you about the MEAC having the cahones to participate in the playoffs. The SWAC folks whining about the MEAC lack of success is laughable considering the SWAC 0-19 playoff record they achieved before they turned tail, took their football and went home.

Now as to the MEAC improving, I always laugh at these comments from people who have not been to MEAC games.

I have caught MEAC games since the days John Taylor was at DSU. (This was roughly the same time Rich Gannon was at UD). The MEAC has been improving but they are nowhere near improving at the rate of CAA or SOCON teams. These conferences improve every year. It is like a nuclear arms race and everyone knows they can't statnd still. SC State in my view is consistently the best coached and best run program but as this year showed a team with some outstanding skill players can win the MEAC.

BCU the conference champion was handled easily by UNH who in turn was throttled by UD the next week. None of this is accidental.

The MEAC has some considerable years of improvement ahead before a 2nd playoff team from that conference is deserved.

Interesting.......so you don't think BCC deserve to be in the playoffs.....interesting

[TexasTerror]

Decade Conference Rankings (http://http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/rankings/decade_conf_rankings.php?period=2000-2009)

All Time Conference Rankings (http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/rankings/all_time_conf_rankings.php)

You can stop trying to divide TT, you've already conquerer the ones that you wanted.

Again - you are providing information off a flawed and not recognized system. Care to bring out the GPI from previous years? You guys can continue to bust out those numbers, but they are what they are - a joke.

[blukeys]

Interesting.......so you don't think BCC deserve to be in the playoffs.....interesting

Wow you are full of misinformation even for someone from the SWAC. I said the MEAC does not deserve a second team (at large) in the playoffs. This year that would have been SC State.

[Panther88]

I don't think any of this is an arguable point. Those of us who have (had lol) his cell# know the real truth w/out any assertions. It's all subjective and everyone has the right to voice their opinion w/out knowing the truth and the difference between coach "media" speak and honest truth behind the scenes. Some of you, are really clueless. xlolx

What'll happen this fall is some will attempt to somehow christen the BCU vs PVU matchup as the entire conference rep gauging each conference's strength from top to bottom, for whatever illogical reason. That's ridiculously wrong and has zero logic. After we break our foot in BCU's ***, the pundits will surely come w/ the infamous SWAC-MEAC challenge history session, as if a player named "history" would've taken the field fall 2011 during their defeat. (laugh here, because I am xlolx ) Or, if BCU happens to beat PVAMU, they'll call it the "norm," as if it was the "norm" for PVAMU to have played BCU for the first time ever fall 2011 (lol here, yet again xlolx ).

Lastly, it's not my job to keep stupidly illogical www forum try2be-knowitalls lol from fulfilling their position, to be blindly illogical. So, all who are fulfilling their destiny lol may indeed proceed w/out hindrance to their objective and continue to make illogical assertions based upon what their personal and unfounded inclinations are. 2 fun-ne. xlolx

[DSUrocks07]

Good luck to NCCU and Frazier...they have been making all the right moves so far...now they have to put it all together. I fully expect the Eagles to compete for a MEAC title within the next three to five years.

[bluedog]

Good luck to NCCU and Frazier...they have been making all the right moves so far...now they have to put it all together. I fully expect the Eagles to compete for a MEAC title within the next three to five years.

Wow that's saying alot. It took you guys virtually 14 yrs to do that after the establishment of the conf.

[bluedog]

Wow you are full of misinformation even for someone from the SWAC. I said the MEAC does not deserve a second team (at large) in the playoffs. This year that would have been SC State.

Nah....not misinformation, just not enough interest to care one way or the other, but clearly you got my point.

So you are saying that SCSU didn't desreve to be in the playoffs....right?

Very interesting

[bluedog]

Again - you are providing information off a flawed and not recognized system. Care to bring out the GPI from previous years? You guys can continue to bust out those numbers, but they are what they are - a joke.

Last I looked, two plus two still equal four and it doesn't matter who added them.

So tell us oh mighty one (whose looking for a job in the SWAC) just what maks it flawed?

Not saying that I disagree, I'd just like to hear your VERSION.

[mikebigg]

I'm still waiting for them to show me when the SWAC ever refused a playoff bid...

[TexasTerror]

Last I looked, two plus two still equal four and it doesn't matter who added them.

So tell us oh mighty one (whose looking for a job in the SWAC) just what maks it flawed?

Not saying that I disagree, I'd just like to hear your VERSION.

It is simple arithmitic...

That version heavily weights HBCU national championships as national championships. The SWAC is able to rate above FCS conferences since they have easy access to getting a HBCU national championship, compared to other FCS and even FBS leagues, who have a much harder time winning a Div I (FCS) or BCS (FBS) national title. With the SWAC claiming so many "national championships", it pushes them up significantly due to the weight.

Perhaps, if you viewed the web site and stopped using the Cadorian Theory of just throwing out incorrect information that favors your case, you may have realized this.


I'm still waiting for them to show me when the SWAC ever refused a playoff bid...

The SWAC never did - we know.

What we can show you is that the SWAC has a great inability to compete at the Division I level across all sports and this past football season is one of the few in recent memory in which the league did not rank last or second-to-last in RPI (or GPI). Congrats!

[bluedog]

It is simple arithmitic...

That version heavily weights HBCU national championships as national championships. The SWAC is able to rate above FCS conferences since they have easy access to getting a HBCU national championship, compared to other FCS and even FBS leagues, who have a much harder time winning a Div I (FCS) or BCS (FBS) national title. With the SWAC claiming so many "national championships", it pushes them up significantly due to the weight.

Perhaps, if you viewed the web site and stopped using the Cadorian Theory of just throwing out incorrect information that favors your case, you may have realized this.



The SWAC never did - we know.

What we can show you is that the SWAC has a great inability to compete at the Division I level across all sports and this past football season is one of the few in recent memory in which the league did not rank last or second-to-last in RPI (or GPI). Congrats!

Well that's really confusion since the SWAC is such a lowly looked upon conference, one would think the National titles doesn't carry much weight.

I do find a person that have been saying for years, that schools who don't participate in a playoff aren't valid champion, find it convenient to use those same school to support his position very hilarious.

Thanks for the laugh.

[bluedog]

Nah....not misinformation, just not enough interest to care one way or the other, but clearly you got my point.

So you are saying that SCSU didn't desreve to be in the playoffs....right?

Very interesting

Well blukey am I correct?

[BlueHenSinfonian]

Well that's really confusion since the SWAC is such a lowly looked upon conference, one would think the National titles doesn't carry much weight.

I do find a person that have been saying for years, that schools who don't participate in a playoff aren't valid champion, find it convenient to use those same school to support his position very hilarious.

Thanks for the laugh.

You are making even less sense tonight than usual. TexasTerror's point is that the CFB figures are off because they count the Black College Championship game as a real championship when it isn't - it's a made up feel good award that isn't decided on the field and is likely more politics than anything else.

Actually, I'm surprised the schools involved aren't insulted by the existence of this award. Crowning a Black College Champion is tantamount to saying "Well, we know none of these schools are good enough to compete for the real championship, but at least they can call themselves the best of the HBCUs." The whole title reeks of separate-but-(un)equal, and I'm surprised more people aren't up in arms about it.

[BlueHenSinfonian]

The Black college National Championship was created as a result of Jim Crow Laws
Why would we throw our history away just to appease you or anyone who thinks like you?


That was my point. If the Black College Championship was created during a time when the HBCUs couldn't compete for the same national title as the other schools, why does it make sense to carry it on when the HBCUs can now compete for the real title like everyone else?



This reminds me of the same continue silly question about why our schools represent themselves as HBCU's.

Do you ask Notre Dame why they represent themselves as an Irish Catholic school? Or Northwestern why they represent themselves as a Protestant school?

I'm not saying any HBCU should give up their heritage or identity. Notre Dame, Villanova, and Holy Cross don't make up some Catholic College National Championship though - they play for the real titles in their divisions just like everyone else.

The FCS playoffs are a great opportunity for schools with all kinds of backgrounds to come together in unity. The MEAC schools participate and it doesn't cheat them out of any of their HBCU heritage. The self-imposed segregation of the SWAC schools is slowly killing them all. Clinging onto a title that boils down to 'Great job for a black school' doesn't do any favors for racial equality in collegiate athletics.



he says (like you) any school that doesn't participate in a playoff to decided its champion isn't a real champion.

Does the BCS/FBS now participate in a playoff?

I'm not a fan of the BCS system, but if nothing else, the BCS champion is still decided on the field, even if only two teams per year get a chance at it.


Again the Black college National Championship is older then you and your father. So why on earth do you even remotely think it has something to do with you or the playoffs?


The Black College National Championship doesn't have anything to do with the playoffs, and I never said it it. I said it is an embarrassment that it continues this day in age because it is pretty much segregation, and I stand behind that statement. I also said it's a ridiculous title that means nothing because it is - it isn't decided on the field, it's decided by polls and committee with many of the teams involved having never even played each other.

[bluedog]

That was my point. If the Black College Championship was created during a time when the HBCUs couldn't compete for the same national title as the other schools, why does it make sense to carry it on when the HBCUs can now compete for the real title like everyone else?


I'm not saying any HBCU should give up their heritage or identity. Notre Dame, Villanova, and Holy Cross don't make up some Catholic College National Championship though - they play for the real titles in their divisions just like everyone else.

The FCS playoffs are a great opportunity for schools with all kinds of backgrounds to come together in unity. The MEAC schools participate and it doesn't cheat them out of any of their HBCU heritage. The self-imposed segregation of the SWAC schools is slowly killing them all. Clinging onto a title that boils down to 'Great job for a black school' doesn't do any favors for racial equality in collegiate athletics.


I'm not a fan of the BCS system, but if nothing else, the BCS champion is still decided on the field, even if only two teams per year get a chance at it.


The Black College National Championship doesn't have anything to do with the playoffs, and I never said it it. I said it is an embarrassment that it continues this day in age because it is pretty much segregation, and I stand behind that statement. I also said it's a ridiculous title that means nothing because it is - it isn't decided on the field, it's decided by polls and committee with many of the teams involved having never even played each other.

So clearly I miss something over night , because you're telling me that the BCS Champion isn't decided by a poll....right?

As for the BNC being an embarrassment, just who's embarrass? The teams that play for it or a few outsiders who have nothing to do with it, who are reminded by it's existent just how low and immoral a certain segment of our nation was at one time and it makes them uncomfortable because they haven't come to terms with it yet?

Well to them I simply say.....get over it....we have....move on.

[TexasTerror]

I got no problem with the Black College National championship... I do not think anyone does. It is a flawed system, but it means something to the HBCUs - some of which can not compete for a national championship (including your very own Southern).

Using the Cadorian Theorem that the site that you (and SUjagTILiDIE) continually quote, I just do not think the BCN championship should carry as much weight in ranking conferences as a FCS national title and even those mythical BCS national titles...

[Panther88]

The Black college National Championship was created as a result of Jim Crow Laws (your separate but unequal, something you aren't qualified to educate me on) and are a part of our culture.

Why would we throw our history away just to appease you or anyone who thinks like you?

We don't participate in the playoffs and aren't going to any time in the near future. So what makes you think we care about your opinion even though you have to right?

What makes you think or anyone that thinks like you, know what's best for us?

That's just a tad bit Narcissistic don't you think?

I see you're over here educating the masses. Good job.

[WileECoyote06]

That was my point. If the Black College Championship was created during a time when the HBCUs couldn't compete for the same national title as the other schools, why does it make sense to carry it on when the HBCUs can now compete for the real title like everyone else?


I'm not saying any HBCU should give up their heritage or identity. Notre Dame, Villanova, and Holy Cross don't make up some Catholic College National Championship though - they play for the real titles in their divisions just like everyone else.

The FCS playoffs are a great opportunity for schools with all kinds of backgrounds to come together in unity. The MEAC schools participate and it doesn't cheat them out of any of their HBCU heritage. The self-imposed segregation of the SWAC schools is slowly killing them all. Clinging onto a title that boils down to 'Great job for a black school' doesn't do any favors for racial equality in collegiate athletics.


I'm not a fan of the BCS system, but if nothing else, the BCS champion is still decided on the field, even if only two teams per year get a chance at it.


The Black College National Championship doesn't have anything to do with the playoffs, and I never said it it. I said it is an embarrassment that it continues this day in age because it is pretty much segregation, and I stand behind that statement. I also said it's a ridiculous title that means nothing because it is - it isn't decided on the field, it's decided by polls and committee with many of the teams involved having never even played each other.

FBS works like that as well. It's a poll, nothing more nothing less. . .and those schools who have won it proudly display their trophy. I wouldn't advise anyone in our athletic department to give ours back. xnottalkingx

So I disagree with you and your stance about the Black College National Championship. BTW, were you aware that there are more than one? xeyebrowx

Kind of like the AP Championship vs the BCS Championship?

[BlueHenSinfonian]

FBS works like that as well. It's a poll, nothing more nothing less. . .and those schools who have won it proudly display their trophy. I wouldn't advise anyone in our athletic department to give ours back. xnottalkingx

So I disagree with you and your stance about the Black College National Championship. BTW, were you aware that there are more than one? xeyebrowx

Kind of like the AP Championship vs the BCS Championship?

The teams that play in the BCS championship are determined by computer and poll, but the winner is determined on the field. There is no actual Black College Championship game, which is why it is a made up title.

[bluedog]

The teams that play in the BCS championship are determined by computer and poll, but the winner is determined on the field. There is no actual Black College Championship game, which is why it is a made up title.

Really?....really?

So the years that the #1 team plays the #3 team in the Sugar Bowl (which BTW was agree upon by the coaches to be the BCS title game) and the #2 team is left out, is what you callled being decided on the field?

Or the years that it's split between the #1 team and the #3 team that played in a different Bowl. Is that what you called being played on the field.

The bottom line here is, at the end of the day it's our championship and not yours so why keep whinning about it?

We're not concern about yours

The Championship is determine no different then a BCS but all of a sudden now you all are fans of the BCS.

[WileECoyote06]

The teams that play in the BCS championship are determined by computer and poll, but the winner is determined on the field. There is no actual Black College Championship game, which is why it is a made up title.

The NCAA doesn't officially recognize the BCS championship, just like they don't officially recognize the Sheridan or HSN championship.

The top schools in FBS meeting in a championship game is a fairly recent development in terms of how long college football has been played. As a matter of fact, just seven years ago disagreement with the system caused the AP voters to award their championship to USC who was shut out of the title game in favor of LSU and Oklahoma. The year after that, Auburn was shut out of the title game in favor of USC and Oklahoma.

In both years, those teams were awarded championships by various organizations; yet they didn't face each other on the field. I'm pretty sure USC isn't going to mail back their AP trophy.

By your logic, you're in favor of the proposed Legacy Bowl; because it would match up the champions of the Division I HBCU conferences. I'd much rather keep it the way it is for the MEAC.

[TexasTerror]

By your logic, you're in favor of the proposed Legacy Bowl; because it would match up the champions of the Division I HBCU conferences. I'd much rather keep it the way it is for the MEAC.

The HBCU National title can and has been awarded to a non-Division I school. This year, Albany State - correct? And of course, Tuskegee beat both SWAC championship game participants from this past season. If they and their counterparts (NAIA, USCAA and any Div III or other affiliates) are not involved, it's not a true HBCU national championship game.

I think the Legacy Bowl serves a purpose - particularly for the financially-strapped SWAC - but I really am optimistic that the MEAC will not lose it's autobid over it and that if the game comes to fruition, they do not call it the HBCU national title game.

[BlueHenSinfonian]

By your logic, you're in favor of the proposed Legacy Bowl; because it would match up the champions of the Division I HBCU conferences. I'd much rather keep it the way it is for the MEAC.

Actually, I'm not in favor of the Legacy Bowl at all, unless there was a way to do it that didn't involve the MEAC losing their playoff eligibility, in which case I just don't care about it.

The whole conversation about the BCNC started because one of the SWAC boosters was trying to use CFDB's conference rankings as proof that the SWAC isn't completely, entirely, and wholely awful when it comes to level of play. I was just pointing out that CFDB's conference rankings included points for the BCNC even though winning that 'award' doesn't prove anything, and that it's a dubious honor at best, thus CFDB's conference rankings with regard to the SWAC are bunk.

[WileECoyote06]

The HBCU National title can and has been awarded to a non-Division I school. This year, Albany State - correct? And of course, Tuskegee beat both SWAC championship game participants from this past season. If they and their counterparts (NAIA, USCAA and any Div III or other affiliates) are not involved, it's not a true HBCU national championship game.

I think the Legacy Bowl serves a purpose - particularly for the financially-strapped SWAC - but I really am optimistic that the MEAC will not lose it's autobid over it and that if the game comes to fruition, they do not call it the HBCU national title game.

We're one of them. We won it in 2006 while still in Division II. And as I said, we ain't giving ours back. I only included that scenario to make a parallel between the SBN championship and the BCS championship.

[WestCoastAggie]

Fascinating Thread...

[Jaguar79]

The HBCU National title can and has been awarded to a non-Division I school. This year, Albany State - correct? And of course, Tuskegee beat both SWAC championship game participants from this past season. If they and their counterparts (NAIA, USCAA and any Div III or other affiliates) are not involved, it's not a true HBCU national championship game.
I think the Legacy Bowl serves a purpose - particularly for the financially-strapped SWAC - but I really am optimistic that the MEAC will not lose it's autobid over it and that if the game comes to fruition, they do not call it the HBCU national title game.

Um, by this logic, the FCS Championship can't be a true Championship when two of the conferences in FCS don't compete for it, regardless of the reasons they are not competing, right?