Is the missing piece to the realignment puzzle America East football?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Don't laugh.

America East
------------
New Hampshire (AE)
Maine (AE)
Albany (AE)
Stony Brook (AE)
CCSU (from NEC)
Rhode Island (from NEC, A-10)
Fordham (from PL, A-10)

This unites all the schools that were originally part of the Yankee Conference, and add other interested AE parties under the same banner. All play with 63 scholarships in a reasonably compact, regional league.

From there, you have the remaining NEC schools, who bond together with the opponents to scholarships in the PL to reestablish itself as a need-limited aid league:

NEC
---
Bryant (NEC)
Monmouth (NEC)
Sacred Heart (NEC)
Wagner (NEC)
St. Francis (NEC)
Holy Cross (affiliate from PL, per arrangement)
Georgetown (affiliate from PL, per arrangement)
Lafayette (affiliate from PL, per arrangement)
Dayton (from PFL, A-10)

A bit far-flung, but all seem to be willing to play with need-limited aid (and the grant-in-aids that the PL currently sponsors).

This opens up a "new Yankee" conference, or perhaps a new scholarship Patriot League:

Patriot League/New Yankee
--------------------------
Lehigh (PL)
Bucknell (PL)
Colgate (PL)
Robert Morris (from NEC, per arrangement)
Duquesne (A-10 affiliate)
Richmond (A-10 affiliate)
William & Mary (from CAA, per arrangement)

PL loses all the schools that would prefer to play need-limited aid, and gain Richmond, William & Mary, and added presence in western PA.

And finally - the coup de grace - this allows the CAA to establish itself south:

CAA
---
Delaware (CAA)
Towson (CAA)
JMU (CAA)
Old Dominion (CAA)
Georgia State (CAA)
Appalachian State (from SoCon)
Liberty (from Big South)
VCU (CAA start-up)
George Mason (CAA start-up)

What they lose in the northern members, they gain in spades with their new Southern additions, and also get two start-up programs that can follow in the footsteps of ODU.

If Villanova elects to stay in FCS, then they fit perfectly as the 8th team in the New Yankee/Patriot.

The Patriot League stays together as a basketball conference, which as always continues to offer scholarships.

For good measure, the Big South replaces Stony Brook with Delaware State.

I don't think this is a fantasy scenario, either.

[henfan]

I know you told us not to laugh, but starting any thread with the phrase "America East Football" is like starting it with "There once was a man from Nantucket".xlolx

It...will...NEVER...happen...and forever is a long time.

FYI, URI is cutting schollies in 2012.

[DFW HOYA]

In other words, you're kicking out half the PL?

Only three core members in PL football would involve a bylaws change...and you know how that goes...

[Lehigh Football Nation]

In other words, you're kicking out half the PL?

Only three core members in PL football would involve a bylaws change...and you know how that goes...

You mean, four years of studies and non-decision? Yes, there is historic precedent.

More like separating it along the fault-line - need-limited scholarship to the NEC, and scholarship with the AI to the New Yankee/Patriot.


I know you told us not to laugh, but starting any thread with the phrase "America East Football" is like starting it with "There once was a man from Nantucket".

It...will...NEVER...happen...and forever is a long time.

FYI, URI is cutting schollies in 2012.

URI would be playing in a regional league. Their travel costs would go down dramatically. They could bus to all their games.

[DFW HOYA]

Why not just...

North
Lehigh (PL)
Bucknell (PL)
Colgate (PL)
Lafayette (PL)
Holy Cross (PL)
Marist (PFL)

South
Georgetown (PL)
Robert Morris (from NEC, per arrangement)
Duquesne (A-10 affiliate)
Richmond (A-10 affiliate)
William & Mary (from CAA, per arrangement)
Davidson (PFL)

Scholarships simply "optional". Who could oppose that? xlolx

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Why not just...

North
Lehigh (PL)
Bucknell (PL)
Colgate (PL)
Lafayette (PL)
Holy Cross (PL)
Marist (PFL)

South
Georgetown (PL)
Robert Morris (from NEC, per arrangement)
Duquesne (A-10 affiliate)
Richmond (A-10 affiliate)
William & Mary (from CAA, per arrangement)
Davidson (PFL)

Scholarships simply "optional". Who could oppose that?

Imagine the voting structure of the PL after this. Is six a quorum? Do we need a supermajority? What are filibuster rules?

[BlueHenSinfonian]

Would all of these moves be football only? The A-10 is the strongest non-BCS basketball conference, the AE is one of the weaker ones.

I don't see what's in this for W&M or Richmond either, both do well and are happy in CAA football.

[aceinthehole]

Like HF said, it's impossible not to laugh using "America East" and "football" in the same breath. They mix like oil and water.

Your entire scenario is not just implausable, it's impossible. To many conflicts with full membership conferences.

Here's a more likely (yet almost as absurd) possibility:

1) The PL ceases to sponsor football, leaving all current members looking for a home.

2) The NEC steps up and offers to administer a legally seperate, full scholarship football conference named the "Yankee Football Conference"

3) NEC football remains with a 40 scholarship/grant-in-aid limit, with no minimums.

Yankee Football - Newly chartered FB-only conference
Albany (AE)
Maine (AE)
New Hampshire (AE)
Stony Brook (AE)
Central Connecticut (NEC)
Monmouth (NEC)
Robert Morris (NEC)
Fordham (A-10)
Rhode Island (A-10)
Colgate (PL)
Lehigh (PL)

NEC Football - w/ affiliates
Bryant
Sacred Heart
Saint Francis
Wagner
Duquesne (affiliate from the A-10)
Georgetown (affiliate from the Big East)
Bucknell (affiliate from the PL)
Holy Cross (affiliate from the PL)
Lafayette (affiliate from the PL)
Marist (affiliate from the MAAC)

[Bogus Megapardus]

Perhaps Lehigh ought not to flatter itself with its continuing penchant for paternalistic grandstanding. Lehigh is not going anywhere that Lafayette is not going.

The growing consensus here seems to be directed at establishing Lafayette as the fall guy and to use use Dr. Weiss' statements as a recruiting tool. I can understand why others would do that, and I don't like the way Lafayette's statement came out either.

But at least Lafayette said something, which for the most part was consistent with its previously-announced policy. I haven't seen an announcement coming from Lehigh reporting that Lehigh voted for scholarships or that Lehigh took any proactive stance whatsoever in favor of merit aid at the meeting.

So, young recruits, Lafayette was straight with you when it said said it's not quite ready to offer scholarships. But Lehigh's not offering them either and I haven't heard that the Engineers are going the Fordham route to offer merit aid despite league policy.

In fact, in order to offer scholarships like Fordham, Lehigh as an institution would have to show the same fortitude that Lafayette did in standing by its position publicly, whether or not that that position is to your liking. And, quite clearly, Lehigh hasn't done so. So which institution can you trust to be true to its word?

I might not agree with Lafayette's decision at the moment but I'm not going sit idly while others (who possess no more information than do I) blindly defame and ridicule the college.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Perhaps Lehigh ought not to flatter itself with its continuing penchant for paternalistic grandstanding. Lehigh is not going anywhere that Lafayette is not going.

The growing consensus here seems to be directed at establishing Lafayette as the fall guy and to use use Dr. Weiss' statements as a recruiting tool. I can understand why others would do that, and I don't like the way Lafayette's statement came out either.

Oh, come off it, Bogus. How is this a recruiting pitch? The disbanding of the Patriot League - which is now a distinct possibility - hurts all the schools equally. As for Weiss, he did a damned good job making himself the fall guy.


But at least Lafayette said something, which for the most part was consistent with its previously-announced policy. I haven't seen an announcement coming from Lehigh reporting that Lehigh voted for scholarships or that Lehigh took any proactive stance whatsoever in favor of merit aid at the meeting.

That's true, and I've acknowledged such elsewhere.


So, young recruits, Lafayette was straight with you when it said said it's not quite ready to offer scholarships. But Lehigh's not offering them either and I haven't heard that the Engineers are going the Fordham route to offer merit aid despite league policy.

In fact, in order to offer scholarships like Fordham, Lehigh as an institution would have to show the same fortitude that Lafayette did in standing by its position publicly, whether or not that that position is to your liking. And, quite clearly, Lehigh hasn't done so. So which institution can you trust to be true to its word?

Increasingly, the answer to that is "none".


I might not agree with Lafayette's decision at the moment but I'm not going sit idly while others (who possess no more information than do I) blindly defame and ridicule the college.

Excuse me. Your president is on record as saying that he's in favor of the status quo, which is need-limited aid. I'm returning the NEC to need-limited aid in my scenario, which is what your president wants. How is this defaming and ridiculing LC? I am simply putting Lafayette exactly where its president wants it to be.

[ccd494]

This is all well and good, but I am unclear on what has changed in the past X number of years to secure the necessary votes from Vermont, Boston U, Hartford, Binghamton and UMBC to bring football into the AE. Heck, are we even sure UNH would support this?

If America East was ever going to sponsor another sport, it would have been ice hockey, but that couldn't even get off the ground. Hockey East members Maine, UNH, Vermont, Boston U and Northeastern were all in the conference at the time it was considered. The AE would have added the best conference in the NCAA's third most important sport (and only other moneymaker than FBS football and basketball), and brought schools like Boston College, UMass and Providence under the AE banner if only as associates. It was win-win. However, BU had (and still has) delusions of grandeur, and was pretty sure it would have no desire or need to be associated with America East in the future.

In short, any plan that involves reason, foresight and creativity from America East conference leadership is a nonstarter.

[LURules]

Like HF said, it's impossible not to laugh using "America East" and "football" in the same breath. They mix like oil and water.

Your entire scenario is not just implausable, it's impossible. To many conflicts with full membership conferences.

Here's a more likely (yet almost as absurd) possibility:

1) The PL ceases to sponsor football, leaving all current members looking for a home.

2) The NEC steps up and offers to administer a legally seperate, full scholarship football conference named the "Yankee Football Conference"

3) NEC football remains with a 40 scholarship/grant-in-aid limit, with no minimums.

Yankee Football - Newly chartered FB-only conference
Albany (AE)
Maine (AE)
New Hampshire (AE)
Stony Brook (AE)
Central Connecticut (NEC)
Monmouth (NEC)
Robert Morris (NEC)
Fordham (A-10)
Rhode Island (A-10)
Colgate (PL)
Lehigh (PL)

NEC Football - w/ affiliates
Bryant
Sacred Heart
Saint Francis
Wagner
Duquesne (affiliate from the A-10)
Georgetown (affiliate from the Big East)
Bucknell (affiliate from the PL)
Holy Cross (affiliate from the PL)
Lafayette (affiliate from the PL)
Marist (affiliate from the MAAC)

THis actually makes the most sense to me. I don't see what one would think Bucknell is a yes on scholly's since if they were the vote, likely would have taken place. I do expect there will be changes over the next few years, but the Patriot League teams intereted in scholarship football are behind the eight ball. Let's fase it this is about being able to recruit mid to high level income kids that can't get the need based money.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Again, Lehigh isn't going anywhere Lafayette isn't going.

[aceinthehole]

Again, Lehigh isn't going anywhere Lafayette isn't going.

I agree - for now. My post was just slightly less absurd and complex as LFN's apocalyptic "prediction." :)

That being said, Fordham still has 1 foot out the door and is looking for the exit. We agree there are no reasonable candidates for PL expansion with the status quo on scholarships/grants. So it is fair to suggest that a 6-team PL football league (that includes 1 affiliate) is on the brink of something ... xchinscratchx

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

So the new CAA will bring in Liberty, but not GSU?

[blukeys]

I always getting a kick out of the PL folks speculating on William and Mary and Richmond.

It ain't gonna happen. There is no logical reason for either of these schools to leave the CAA.

PL folks are prone to fantasies. Dream on.

[the last indian]

What are you smoking? The other leagues have dealt with reality in a way that the PL has not- the Ostrich league as the Morning Call reported it. No one cares about the also rans in the PL. It is irrelevant. Why would another league pollute itself with this stuff. They have scholarships, we do not. We will continue to slip, they will continue to out recruit us. Case closed. The wimps that we call college Presidents failed to do what is necessary to insure the vibrancy of the league- they did the opposite. In 2 years it will not matter. Unless this deal is broken, it is over. D-II in reality if not in name.

[the last indian]

PS you are rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

[Bogus Megapardus]

I always getting a kick out of the PL folks speculating on William and Mary and Richmond.

It ain't gonna happen. There is no logical reason for either of these schools to leave the CAA.

PL folks are prone to fantasies. Dream on.

W&M actually was a founding member of the PL (for a very short while) and Richmond was on the brink at one point. Both have moved on and have left the PL in their rear views mirrors. Nevertheless, both institutions represent the types of members that the PL seeks and that's why they are used as examples now and again by AGS posters. I think everyone understands that neither school ever will be a PL member.

[Franks Tanks]

Lafayette or even Bucknell will not join any of these pipe dream conferences. If by some strange reason Lafayette would not follow Lehigh to a new conference they would go Indy.

[blukeys]

I think everyone understands that neither school ever will be a PL member.

So explain to me again why they are always brought up in the conversation about the PL. Personally I think it is hilarious. Maybe you guys can bring up Nova for the PL. PL fans are immune to reality.

[Bogus Megapardus]

So explain to me again why they are always brought up in the conversation about the PL. Personally I think it is hilarious. Maybe you guys can bring up Nova for the PL. PL fans are immune to reality.

Because Villanova also actively considered the PL as well. But not any more. It's no different than Marist, VMI or Duquesne entering the conversation now, or than the ridiculousness of the posters on the Delaware board who continue posit the Blue Hens as being on the brink of Big East membership. Keep in mind that Delaware participated in PL discussions at one time as well, as hilarious as that might seem to you now.

[Dane96]

This is all well and good, but I am unclear on what has changed in the past X number of years to secure the necessary votes from Vermont, Boston U, Hartford, Binghamton and UMBC to bring football into the AE. Heck, are we even sure UNH would support this?

If America East was ever going to sponsor another sport, it would have been ice hockey, but that couldn't even get off the ground. Hockey East members Maine, UNH, Vermont, Boston U and Northeastern were all in the conference at the time it was considered. The AE would have added the best conference in the NCAA's third most important sport (and only other moneymaker than FBS football and basketball), and brought schools like Boston College, UMass and Providence under the AE banner if only as associates. It was win-win. However, BU had (and still has) delusions of grandeur, and was pretty sure it would have no desire or need to be associated with America East in the future.

In short, any plan that involves reason, foresight and creativity from America East conference leadership is a nonstarter.

I can tell you for a fact that it was not BU, Vermont, Binghamton or Northeastern that killed America East Football. It was another school...who voted against America East Hockey (even BC was on board). Once that died...football, which likely would have gone along with it based on what the President's intended, also died.

[GaSouthern]

No way appy leaves the SoCon for that.

[Sec310]

Gonzaga, St. Mary's and the rest of the West Coast Conference, would strongly argue, your statement.


Would all of these moves be football only? The A-10 is the strongest non-BCS basketball conference, the AE is one of the weaker ones.

I don't see what's in this for W&M or Richmond either, both do well and are happy in CAA football.

[Sader87]

Don't laugh.

America East
------------
New Hampshire (AE)
Maine (AE)
Albany (AE)
Stony Brook (AE)
CCSU (from NEC)
Rhode Island (from NEC, A-10)
Fordham (from PL, A-10)

This unites all the schools that were originally part of the Yankee Conference, and add other interested AE parties under the same banner. All play with 63 scholarships in a reasonably compact, regional league.

From there, you have the remaining NEC schools, who bond together with the opponents to scholarships in the PL to reestablish itself as a need-limited aid league:

NEC
---
Bryant (NEC)
Monmouth (NEC)
Sacred Heart (NEC)
Wagner (NEC)
St. Francis (NEC)
Holy Cross (affiliate from PL, per arrangement)
Georgetown (affiliate from PL, per arrangement)
Lafayette (affiliate from PL, per arrangement)
Dayton (from PFL, A-10)

A bit far-flung, but all seem to be willing to play with need-limited aid (and the grant-in-aids that the PL currently sponsors).

This opens up a "new Yankee" conference, or perhaps a new scholarship Patriot League:

Patriot League/New Yankee
--------------------------
Lehigh (PL)
Bucknell (PL)
Colgate (PL)
Robert Morris (from NEC, per arrangement)
Duquesne (A-10 affiliate)
Richmond (A-10 affiliate)
William & Mary (from CAA, per arrangement)

PL loses all the schools that would prefer to play need-limited aid, and gain Richmond, William & Mary, and added presence in western PA.

And finally - the coup de grace - this allows the CAA to establish itself south:

CAA
---
Delaware (CAA)
Towson (CAA)
JMU (CAA)
Old Dominion (CAA)
Georgia State (CAA)
Appalachian State (from SoCon)
Liberty (from Big South)
VCU (CAA start-up)
George Mason (CAA start-up)

What they lose in the northern members, they gain in spades with their new Southern additions, and also get two start-up programs that can follow in the footsteps of ODU.

If Villanova elects to stay in FCS, then they fit perfectly as the 8th team in the New Yankee/Patriot.

The Patriot League stays together as a basketball conference, which as always continues to offer scholarships.

For good measure, the Big South replaces Stony Brook with Delaware State.

I don't think this is a fantasy scenario, either.

Holy Cross would drop football (which they very well may soon) altogether before playing in that league imo....

[BearsCountry]

Gonzaga, St. Mary's and the rest of the West Coast Conference, would strongly argue, your statement.

MVC is better than the WCC.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Holy Cross would drop football (which they very well may soon) altogether before playing in that league imo....

I agree with Sader87. Holy Cross will play in the Patriot or in some version of America East along with New Hampshire and Maine. Oh and, uhh . . . Lehigh is not going anywhere that Lafayette doesn't go. Did I mention that already?

[DFW HOYA]

Holy Cross would drop football (which they very well may soon) altogether before playing in that league imo....

Holy Cross is not dropping football.

[401ks]

Gonzaga, St. Mary's and the rest of the West Coast Conference, would strongly argue, your statement.

xcoffeex

FYI...

Current Conference RPIs:

Rank Conference
1 Big East
2 Big Ten
3 Atlantic Coast
4 Big 12
5 Southeastern
6 Mountain West
7 Atlantic 10
8 Colonial Athletic
9 Pacific-10
10 Ivy League
11 Conference USA
12 Horizon League
13 Missouri Valley
14 Atlantic Sun
15 West Coast
16 Metro Atlantic Athletic
17 Western Athletic
18 Mid-American
19 Southland
20 Big West
21 Southern
22 Summit
23 Big South
24 Northeast
25 Sun Belt
26 Big Sky
27 America East
28 Southwestern Athletic
29 Ohio Valley
30 Patriot League
31 Mid-Eastern
32 Independents

xpeacex

[Sec310]

The season isn't even half over and historically the WCC and MVC have been better than the A-12.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I agree with Sader87. Holy Cross will play in the Patriot or in some version of America East along with New Hampshire and Maine. Oh and, uhh . . . Lehigh is not going anywhere that Lafayette doesn't go. Did I mention that already?

Why are you so certain of this? Holy Cross and Lafayette seem happy with need-limited aid. A NEC, reconfigured for such, fulfills that goal for both schools - and with an autobid still, presumably. If HC wants scholarships, then yes, this AE conference would be compact, regional, and a nice fit.

Presumably, the Ivy League would adore having a need-limited league to beat up on. The reconfigured NEC would be perfect for this purpose.

[Saint3333]

No way appy leaves the SoCon for that.

Agreed for ASU to join the CAA you'll need to add GSU and UNCC.

UD
JMU
ODU
Georgia St.
UNCC
ASU
GSU
Liberty (they are growing very fast)

Add VCU, Mason, CofC, and Drexel for basketball. That would be 9 teams in the top 150 in RPI.


Bball

North - UD, JMU, VCU, Mason, Drexel, ODU

South - Liberty, ASU, UNCC, CofC, GSU, Georgia St.

Yeah this isn't very likely, but the football conference may be closer than some think.

[Bogus Megapardus]

seem happy

To whom? Did I miss the announcement from South Mountain that Lehigh positioned contrariwise? You assume much, and its is increasingly unbecoming for Lehigh to instruct others where they belong.

[Jackman]

The season isn't even half over and historically the WCC and MVC have been better than the A-12.

If by "historically" you mean that, during certain specific years in world history, the WCC and MVC have occasionally had better seasons than the A10, then that statement is correct.

[GSU EAGLES]

Agreed for ASU to join the CAA you'll need to add GSU and UNCC.

UD
JMU
ODU
Georgia St.
UNCC
ASU
GSU
Liberty (they are growing very fast)

Add VCU, Mason, CofC, and Drexel for basketball. That would be 9 teams in the top 150 in RPI.


Bball

North - UD, JMU, VCU, Mason, Drexel, ODU

South - Liberty, ASU, UNCC, CofC, GSU, Georgia St.

Yeah this isn't very likely, but the football conference may be closer than some think.

I assume this would be a FBS conference? If so, I'd love to see it. For GSU we maintain the App rivalry and would have a good one with Ga State as well. If you could get ECU and Marshall in there it would really make it nice, but I seriously doubt they would leave the CUSA for a new conference.

[ngineer]

Weiss clearly said he supports the IL model and just wants LC to be "competitive" within the PL. You can't be clearer than that. Lehigh has been saying for almost two years that it supports the scholarship model and is willing to consider different permutations. The fact no formal vote did not occur could be for a host of reasons of which we can only speculate. Weiss's public chest puffing did nothing but ingratiate himself to his numbnuts faculty. Lehigh does NOT have to be in the same league with Lafayette. We can still play "The Game" every year as an OOC.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Lehigh has been saying for almost two years that it supports the scholarship model and is willing to consider different permutations. The fact no formal vote did not occur could be for a host of reasons of which we can only speculate.

Please provide a link to the announcement that Lehigh voted for scholarships last week. Otherwise it is assumed that Lehigh supported the public announcement put out by the league office.

[Sader87]

Holy Cross is not dropping football.


We already essentially did do so in 1991...in nearly every way (attendence, opponents, regional interest, media coverage etc. etc.) non-scholarship football has been a VERY pale imitation of what it once was at Holy Cross.

[ngineer]

Please provide a link to the announcement that Lehigh voted for scholarships last week. Otherwise it is assumed that Lehigh supported the public announcement put out by the league office.

It was reported in the press over a year ago that Lehigh supported a form of merit scholarships for football. Joe Sterrett stated this and I have heard at Lehigh functions that President Gast supports the concept. Keep in mind, she ran track at USC as an undergrad and clearly appreciates the role athletics can play at a private school. She has seen first hand how scholarships have lifted the wrestling program to national competitiveness, again, while at the same time elevating the academic standing of the teams. The fact a formal vote wasn't taken can be speculated--similar to why a vote does not come up in Congress while "deals" and "compromises" are being negotiated. Laugheyette's problem is their faculty and that is Weiss's albatross.

[Bogus Megapardus]

It was reported in the press over a year ago that Lehigh supported a form of merit scholarships for football. Joe Sterrett stated this and I have heard at Lehigh functions that President Gast supports the concept. Keep in mind, she ran track at USC as an undergrad and clearly appreciates the role athletics can play at a private school. She has seen first hand how scholarships have lifted the wrestling program to national competitiveness, again, while at the same time elevating the academic standing of the teams. The fact a formal vote wasn't taken can be speculated--similar to why a vote does not come up in Congress while "deals" and "compromises" are being negotiated. Laugheyette's problem is their faculty and that is Weiss's albatross.

Entirely speculation. Until I see an announcement otherwise, Lehigh supports the announcement put out by the league office. The fact that Gast rand track (or the Weiss is even today and active long-distance runner and marathoner) is irrelevant.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Please provide a link to the announcement that Lehigh voted for scholarships last week. Otherwise it is assumed that Lehigh supported the public announcement put out by the league office.

I think we can all agree that the one issue all the PL presidents agreed upon is "League presidents expressed their commitment to the stability and long-term positioning of the League." Unfortunately, one PL president thought stability was best served by "ever closer union" with the IL and studying scholarships for the next two years. Other schools may feel that way, or don't. But I don't think Lehigh feels that way. Otherwise, why did they show their support of Fordham in the summer of 2009 when they said they were going to start offering scholarships?

[Sec310]

Maybe it's time for the NCAA have create another D1 football division; the non scholarship division. Patriot, Pioneer, Ivy are founding conferences, along with a new conference formed by schools that want to go non scholly.

[Bogus Megapardus]

I think we can all agree that the one issue all the PL presidents agreed upon is "League presidents expressed their commitment to the stability and long-term positioning of the League." Unfortunately, one PL president thought stability was best served by "ever closer union" with the IL and studying scholarships for the next two years. Other schools may feel that way, or don't. But I don't think Lehigh feels that way. Otherwise, why did they show their support of Fordham in the summer of 2009 when they said they were going to start offering scholarships?

Six votes were needed to pass the scholarship measure. Lafayette has only one vote. At least five other schools voted "No" with Lafayette. But Lafayette is the only school to state publicly how it voted. A "show of support" for Fordham a couple of years ago by the Lehigh AD amounts to nothing - Lafayette's AD supported scholarships as well.

I need to see the statement about the vote last week. Other that that, Lehigh posters are just blowing in the wind and scapegoating.

[Tribe4SF]

This opens up a "new Yankee" conference, or perhaps a new scholarship Patriot League:

Patriot League/New Yankee
--------------------------
Lehigh (PL)
Bucknell (PL)
Colgate (PL)
Robert Morris (from NEC, per arrangement)
Duquesne (A-10 affiliate)
Richmond (A-10 affiliate)
William & Mary (from CAA, per arrangement)

PL loses all the schools that would prefer to play need-limited aid, and gain Richmond, William & Mary, and added presence in western PA.

And finally - the coup de grace - this allows the CAA to establish itself south:

CAA
---
Delaware (CAA)
Towson (CAA)
JMU (CAA)
Old Dominion (CAA)
Georgia State (CAA)
Appalachian State (from SoCon)
Liberty (from Big South)
VCU (CAA start-up)
George Mason (CAA start-up)

What they lose in the northern members, they gain in spades with their new Southern additions, and also get two start-up programs that can follow in the footsteps of ODU.

If Villanova elects to stay in FCS, then they fit perfectly as the 8th team in the New Yankee/Patriot.

The Patriot League stays together as a basketball conference, which as always continues to offer scholarships.

For good measure, the Big South replaces Stony Brook with Delaware State.

I don't think this is a fantasy scenario, either.

If you want Lehigh to be affiliated with W&M then get your prez to apply for CAA membership. Under this scenario, what possible motivation would W&M have to leave the CAA? Adding in-state rivals VCU and GMU to CAA football would be a big plus for W&M, and somehow you imagine we'd rather trade that for Robert Morris and Duquesne and the abandoning of rivalries with UD, JMU and ODU? Sorry, but laughter is the only response available.

[401ks]

The season isn't even half over and historically the WCC and MVC have been better than the A-12 (sic).

xeyebrowx

The FINAL 2009-2010 Conference RPIs:

1 Big 12
2 Big East
3 Atlantic Coast
4 Southeastern
5 Big Ten
6 Mountain West
7 Atlantic 10
8 Pacific-10
9 Missouri Valley
10 Western Athletic
11 Conference USA
12 Colonial Athletic
13 West Coast
14 Horizon League
15 Metro Atlantic Athletic
16 Mid-American
17 Southern
18 Big Sky
19 Big West
20 Ohio Valley
21 Sun Belt
22 Ivy League
23 Summit
24 America East
25 Atlantic Sun
26 Southland
27 Big South
28 Patriot League
29 Northeast
30 Mid-Eastern
31 Southwestern Athletic
32 Independents

The FINAL 2008-2009 Conference RPIs:

8 Atlantic 10
9 Missouri Valley
15 West Coast

The FINAL 2007-2008 Conference RPIs:

7 Atlantic 10
8 Missouri Valley
15 West Coast

There was a brief three-year period when the MVC topped the Atlantic 10, and one year when the WCC topped the Atlantic 10. That does not qualify as "historically".

The FINAL 2003-2004 Conference RPIs:

8 Atlantic 10
11 Missouri Valley
12 West Coast

Nice try.