CAA Northern Expansion??

[UNH Fanboi]

Once Nova, UMass and URI are gone and ODU and GaSt are in, the CAA will have 9 teams. That leaves them one more defection away from not having enough teams for a "full" conference schedule. Who knows how long UNH and Maine will be willing to stick around in a decidedly mid-Atlantic/Southern conference, and I don't think JMU spent all of that money on a new stadium to stay in the FCS.

So I think it would be prudent for the CAA to start looking for new members. Fordham has already publicly stated that they are interested (it was in the NY Times article about the Patriot League), and the recent Patriot League punt on scholarships will no doubt solidify that interest.

And while they're looking at Fordham, why not Stony Brook and Albany? Am I crazy?

[Bogus Megapardus]

I certainly think Lehigh and Colgate ought to be in the mix as well. PL football is as good as dead.

[WMTribe90]

Once Nova, UMass and URI are gone and ODU and GaSt are in, the CAA will have 9 teams. That leaves them one more defection away from not having enough teams for a "full" conference schedule. Who knows how long UNH and Maine will be willing to stick around in a decidedly mid-Atlantic/Southern conference, and I don't think JMU spent all of that money on a new stadium to stay in the FCS.

So I think it would be prudent for the CAA to start looking for new members. Fordham has already publicly stated that they are interested (it was in the NY Times article about the Patriot League), and the recent Patriot League punt on scholarships will no doubt solidify that interest.

And while they're looking at Fordham, why not Stony Brook and Albany? Am I crazy?

I'm not convinced VU is gone, probably 50-50. UMass is probably gone, but still need an official invite from the MAC. But, I think the CAA should be working agressively to bolster its membership with one or more (SBU, Albany, HC, Fordham) northern teams if the CAA is at all interested in maintaining a northern division. I don't believe Maine and UNH stay too long without suring up the the northern tier. UNC-C is also reportedly in the mix for membership.

[henfan]

I'd be surprised if the CAA was in any hurry to bring non-CAA members for FB, regardless of what VU and UMass do. VCU and GMU are looking at start up programs. Should VU and/or UMass leave, those two would likely fill in behind them.

[danefan]

I'd be surprised if the CAA was in any hurry to bring non-CAA members for FB, regardless of what VU and UMass do. VCU and GMU are looking at start up programs. Should VU and/or UMass leave, those two would likely fill in behind them.

Agreed. The only reason the CAA brings anyone in the North is if UNH, Maine and/or UMass force the issue. And even then I don't think it will be enough. The CAA is a Southern-based conference now and for the future.

[UNH Fanboi]

I'd be surprised if the CAA was in any hurry to bring non-CAA members for FB, regardless of what VU and UMass do. VCU and GMU are looking at start up programs. Should VU and/or UMass leave, those two would likely fill in behind them.

I think we'll know very soon if UMass and Nova are gone. If they do leave, I believe they'll play a CAA schedule in 2011 and then a transitional schedule in 2012. URI will be in the NEC in 2012.

What does the CAA do if JMU, UNH and/or Maine leave? It takes time to start a program, so GMU and VCU aren't necessarily good fill-ins. And having a conference where nearly half the teams are new programs doesn't sound too great either.

At this point there may be pressure for UNH and Maine to either convince the CAA to add northern teams or start a new conference. I think it would be very naive for the CAA to be standing pat right now.

[henfan]

I think we'll know very soon if UMass and Nova are gone. If they do leave, I believe they'll play a CAA schedule in 2011 and then a transitional schedule in 2012. URI will be in the NEC in 2012.

What does the CAA do if JMU, UNH and/or Maine leave? It takes time to start a program, so GMU and VCU aren't necessarily good fill-ins. And having a conference where nearly half the teams are new programs doesn't sound too great either.

At this point there may be pressure for UNH and Maine to either convince the CAA to add northern teams or start a new conference. I think it would be very naive for the CAA to be standing pat right now.

Should they announce plans to move to the MAC, UMass would be an FBS transitional immediately, meaning they would not be eligible for the conference championship or playoffs. The league and school would need to come to some agreement about how they would handle the 2011 schedule, though the tentative plan is to have them play the existing schedule. Who knows what 'Nova is going to do.

There's no indication that JMU or any of the current full-sport CAA members are going anywhere anytime in the next 5-7 years. In the meantime, ODU and GSU are coming in to the conference in the next 2 years and will be competitive right away. If VCU & GMU announce in the next year, they should have programs in the CAA in 4-5 years.

It would be great if UMaine and, especially, UNH would continue to participate in the FCS' strongest conference. At this point, there just aren't many other options, minus de-emphasizing FB and downgrading to the NEC a la Rhody. UNH & UMaine may have to choose between adding a couple of extra flights a year or de-emphasizing FB, as the CAA doesn't appear to be in any immediate need to add more non-CAA FB teams.

[art vandelay]

I don't get why UNH and Maine would leave the CAA. UNH is a perenial playoff contender and Maine is good every 3 years or so. money and travel are nothing compared to basicly any of the western teams. look at the big sky. who is nothern AZ close to or portland state. Im not buying it I bet both teams stay where they are.

[aceinthehole]

Let's be clear, any team moving to the NEC is not "de-emphasizing" football. They are simply limiting costs by playing in a geographicall compact footprint with less than the NCAA allowable scholarships. It is a growing and strong league with an AQ and it allows teams to offer more than 60% of the FCS maximum allowable athletic scholarships in football. It is a competative and fiscally stable conferemce.

On the other hand, the PL is in perptual limbo, using recruiting limitations such as the AI and grant-in-aids. I would argue that the PL is "de-emphasizing" football more than the NEC. :)

[soccerguy315]

if school A offers 63 scholarships, and now they are only going to offer 40, that fits the definition of de-emphasizing, IMO.

[BlueHenSinfonian]

if school A offers 63 scholarships, and now they are only going to offer 40, that fits the definition of de-emphasizing, IMO.

I agree. Moving from the CAA to the NEC is a downgrade. The NEC is a fine conference for what it is - one designed to contain costs but still offer a high level of play.

[danefan]

I agree. Moving from the CAA to the NEC is a downgrade. The NEC is a fine conference for what it is - one designed to contain costs but still offer a high level of play.
Agreed. Moving to the NEC is not a downgrade even with less scholarships if you're moving from certain other full-scholarship confereces, but moving from the CAA to the NEC is a downgrade, IMO.


if school A offers 63 scholarships, and now they are only going to offer 40, that fits the definition of de-emphasizing, IMO.
I don't know if you call it deemphasizing football, but URI will definitely be committing less money. So if emphasis=$$$$ in your mind then I can see the point.

[henfan]

Let's be clear, any team moving to the NEC is not "de-emphasizing" football.

Any school that cuts the number of grants for FB from 60-ish to 30 or 40-ish is indeed de-emphasizing (i.e.- placing less financial emphasis on) the sport. There can be no clearer description of 'de-emphasizing' than that. A rose by any other name...

The fallacy that Rhody's going to save a boatload of money on travel moving from the CAA to the NEC has already been demonstrated on this board, so there's no need to repeat those details.

As others have said, the NEC is absolutely a competitive downgrade from the CAA as well. Is there seriously any question about that? That's not intended as a slight to the NEC; just a stone cold fact. Rhody's lack of success in the CAA was one of the reasons given by the school for the NEC move.

[yorkcountyUNHfan]

NEC (@40 grants) for UNH = no friday night game on ESPN infront of the nation ever ever again.

Stay in the CAA an next time might go better...NEC means we would never know.

[WMTribe90]

I think its best to sure up the north with existing programs, than wait to see if VCU and/or GMU might add football in 4 or 5 years. I also begin to wonder how many DI football programs VA can realistically support before there is a drop-off in quality. There are already 2 FBS programs and 8 full-scholarship FCS programs in the state and VU, Towson and UD recruit VA as well. Obviously, if VCU and GMU start football they are guaranteed a spot in the CAA, and righly so, but I'm not sure that's a good thing to add two more scholarship programs to a crowded field.

If VU and UMass both bolt, then by 2012 the CAA will have only have 9 members, assuming UNH and Maine stick around. We could still add at least one northern affiliate member and still leave room for VCU and GMU to come aboard. I would rather the CAA raid the PL, Big South and/or NEC of there most upwardly mobile programs (Forham, SBU and/or Albany) than allow the NEC to peel off UNH and Maine and erase the conference's northern footprint.

[Wildcat80]

Once Nova, UMass and URI are gone and ODU and GaSt are in, the CAA will have 9 teams. That leaves them one more defection away from not having enough teams for a "full" conference schedule. Who knows how long UNH and Maine will be willing to stick around in a decidedly mid-Atlantic/Southern conference, and I don't think JMU spent all of that money on a new stadium to stay in the FCS.

So I think it would be prudent for the CAA to start looking for new members. Fordham has already publicly stated that they are interested (it was in the NY Times article about the Patriot League), and the recent Patriot League punt on scholarships will no doubt solidify that interest.

And while they're looking at Fordham, why not Stony Brook and Albany? Am I crazy?

No---you are not. A CAA North & South still makes alot of sense. North should consider: Stony Brook, Fordham, Albany.......and Lehigh & Colgate if they go scholarship.

[Go...gate]

Sorry, all, I can't see Colgate in the CAA. It makes too much sense.

[Seawolf97]

The CAA may very well add programs to its northern footprint and hopefully hold UNH and Maine in the mix. Many of the potential or new members of the CAA South have higher ambitions-Charlotte, Ga. St., ODU. So for them the CAA will be a pass through. I mean who has a better home venue than Ga.St ? Are their fans going to be content playing Towson or a StonyBrook in the Dome with the ACC and SEC just down the block. So while the PL now has some soul searching to do, so does the the CAA Admins. It is fluid world out there now for college sports. Also I think the PL will be fine. Too much tradition and rivalry to surrender over this latest setback.

[aceinthehole]

Any school that cuts the number of grants for FB from 60-ish to 30 or 40-ish is indeed de-emphasizing (i.e.- placing less financial emphasis on) the sport. There can be no clearer description of 'de-emphasizing' than that. A rose by any other name...

The fallacy that Rhody's going to save a boatload of money on travel moving from the CAA to the NEC has already been demonstrated on this board, so there's no need to repeat those details.

As others have said, the NEC is absolutely a competitive downgrade from the CAA as well. Is there seriously any question about that? That's not intended as a slight to the NEC; just a stone cold fact. Rhody's lack of success in the CAA was one of the reasons given by the school for the NEC move.

Whatever! You sound like MlpsBision: football commitment = scholarships. The NEC has done more to "emphasize" football in the last 5 years than the PL or many other leagues have done.

How can anyone keep questioning the NEC's commitment to FB just beacuse they offer 40 instead of 63 scholarships. Sorry, but if you want real examples of "de-emphasizing" football, here you go:

PL = Doesn't offer any scholarships, voted to kick the can down the line (again), majority of non-conf games vs Ivy, will lose affiliate member Fordham
Ivy = 10 game schedule, non-scholarship, schedules PL teams almost exclusively, doesn't participate in the playoffs
SWAC = Classics games played for $$$, doesn't participate in the playoffs
MEAC = horrible pay for coaches, worst officiating in FCS, some
PFL = non-scholarship, schedules multiple non DI opponents

[danefan]

Whatever! You sound like MlpsBision: football commitment = scholarships. The NEC has done more to "emphasize" football in the last 5 years than the PL or many other leagues have done.

How can anyone keep questioning the NEC's commitment to FB just beacuse they offer 40 instead of 63 scholarships. Sorry, but if you want real examples of "de-emphasizing" football, here you go:

PL = Doesn't offer any scholarships, voted to kick the can down the line (again), majority of non-conf games vs Ivy, will lose affiliate member Fordham
Ivy = 10 game schedule, non-scholarship, schedules PL teams almost exclusively, doesn't participate in the playoffs
SWAC = Classics games played for $$$, doesn't participate in the playoffs
MEAC = horrible pay for coaches, worst officiating in FCS, some
PFL = non-scholarship, schedules multiple non DI opponents

Yeah, I think we all agree on that CCSU, but URI isn't moving from one of those conferences. its moving from the CAA.

[aceinthehole]

Yeah, I think we all agree on that CCSU, but URI isn't moving from one of those conferences. its moving from the CAA.

I know that, but according to most UD fans moving from the CAA to any conference is "downgrading" so what's the point in trying to discredit the NEC xchinscratchx

UD fans say that URI is "de-emphsizing" football by moving from the CAA to the NEC ...
UD fans explain how UMass is leaving for the MAC isn't really an "upgrade" from the mighty CAA ...
UD fans think 'Nova should pass on an invite to the BCS/Big East and stay in the CAA ...

Sorry, but the heavy UD/CAA propoganda of late is really getting very stale to me. xcoffeex

[GannonFan]

I know that, but according to most UD fans moving from the CAA to any conference is "downgrading" so what's the point in trying to discredit the NEC xchinscratchx

UD fans say that URI is "de-emphsizing" football by moving from the CAA to the NEC ...
UD fans explain how UMass is leaving for the MAC isn't really an "upgrade" from the mighty CAA ...
UD fans think 'Nova should pass on an invite to the BCS/Big East and stay in the CAA ...

Sorry, but the heavy UD/CAA propoganda of late is really getting very stale to me. xcoffeex

Didn't danefan just take the same position as UD fans? Seems like you're cherrypicking who you want to complain about. Just saying.

[danefan]

Didn't danefan just take the same position as UD fans? Seems like you're cherrypicking who you want to complain about. Just saying.

On this issue I agree. On the UMass issue I don't and I certainly don't agree on the Nova issue. UMass and Nova will both be taking steps up by moving out of the CAA.

[WMTribe90]

On this issue I agree. On the UMass issue I don't and I certainly don't agree on the Nova issue. UMass and Nova will both be taking steps up by moving out of the CAA.

UMass is debatable. The level of football will be slightly better at best. They will lose all their traditional and regional rivalries. I don't see MAC games being a big boost to attendance. Whatever they are losing on football now, its a safe bet they will lose more playing MAC football, especially when you consider the neccessary facility upgrades. Only way this makes any real sense is if it eventually leads to a Big East invite, whish is far from certain. In the meantime UMass loses more money to play at a competitive level no better than the top teams in the CAA.

[VT Wildcat Fan53]

UMass is debatable. The level of football will be slightly better at best. They will lose all their traditional and regional rivalries. I don't see MAC games being a big boost to attendance. Whatever they are losing on football now, its a safe bet they will lose more playing MAC football, especially when you consider the neccessary facility upgrades. Only way this makes any real sense is if it eventually leads to a Big East invite, whish is far from certain. In the meantime UMass loses more money to play at a competitive level no better than the top teams in the CAA.

UMass will build a football building (which is in their Cap Ex budget anyway) and play 4 games at Gillette and 2 back home in Amherst at McGuirk. They will average (even with two games on campus) the necessary paid crowds without any major infrastructure expenses. 22 more scholarships will not break the bank given the bed capacity the school has.

As for travel expenses, they are flying to the southern CAA campuses anyway, so what is the big difference?

And, yes, look for an eventual move to Big East Football to truly compete with BC in the eastern Mass market.

The better question for UMASS is, Why not?

[WMTribe90]

UMass will build a football building (which is in their Cap Ex budget anyway) and play 4 games at Gillette and 2 back home in Amherst at McGuirk. They will average (even with two games on campus) the necessary paid crowds without any major infrastructure expenses. 22 more scholarships will not break the bank given the bed capacity the school has.

As for travel expenses, they are flying to the southern CAA campuses anyway, so what is the big difference?

And, yes, look for an eventual move to Big East Football to truly compete with BC in the eastern Mass market.

The better question for UMASS is, Why not?

They would still have to do upgrades at McGuirk, improve concessions, etc. They will need to improve support facilites like training and weight rooms, increase coaches salaries, recruiting budgets, 44 extra scholarships and travel expenses. At least in the CAA they could drive to some conference games. They will have to fly for every away conference game in the MAC except Buffalo. Again, they will spend significantly more playing in the MAC and likely see a minimal bump in attendance.

The added expense might be worth it if it eventually leads to BE membership, but I don't see where being in the MAC makes UMass that much more attractive than being in the top rated FCS conference. UMass could improve facilites (like JMU) without incurring all the extra scholarship and travel costs.

BE is so volatile right now, who can say what will happen, but BE membership is far from inevitable and in the meantime this move is a money loser.

[blukeys]

I know that, but according to most UD fans moving from the CAA to any conference is "downgrading" so what's the point in trying to discredit the NEC xchinscratchx

UD fans say that URI is "de-emphsizing" football by moving from the CAA to the NEC ...
UD fans explain how UMass is leaving for the MAC isn't really an "upgrade" from the mighty CAA ...
UD fans think 'Nova should pass on an invite to the BCS/Big East and stay in the CAA ...

Sorry, but the heavy UD/CAA propoganda of late is really getting very stale to me. xcoffeex

Ok I will play this game.

The URI move to the NEC is an upgrade. They finally have a decent chance of getting into the playoffs.

UMASS will be playing for the BCS championship within 3 years and their attendance will actually exceed Kent State's attendance. xeyebrowxxeyebrowxxeyebrowxxeyebrowx

Nova will get an invite to the Kohler Tidy Bowl within 5 years. With their 6-6 Record they will draw Western Michigan from the MAC. They will not sell out their bowl allotment and lose record amounts of money again. But it will benefit Jay Wright and their basketball team so everyone is happy.

[Appfan_in_CAAland]

Once Nova, UMass and URI are gone and ODU and GaSt are in, the CAA will have 9 teams.....So I think it would be prudent for the CAA to start looking for new members.

1) Kick out UNH, Maine, Towson, W&M, and Richmond (and Northeastern and Hofstra in all other sports)
2) Add App State, Georgia Southern, Charlotte, and Liberty (as all-sports members)
3) Move to FBS

[Sly Fox]

1) Kick out UNH, Maine, Towson, W&M, and Richmond (and Northeastern and Hofstra in all other sports)
2) Add App State, Georgia Southern, Charlotte, and Liberty (as all-sports members)
3) Move to FBS

Truth.

[superman7515]

What's wrong with Bill & Mary? They did just share the conference championship.

[yorkcountyUNHfan]

1) Kick out UNH, Maine, Towson, W&M, and Richmond (and Northeastern and Hofstra in all other sports)
2) Add App State, Georgia Southern, Charlotte, and Liberty (as all-sports members)
3) Move to FBS

Have no problem with that at all. I'm sure those 5 schools could find 4 others in the north east to join them.

Take UNI wih you and all our "not make it to the semi's problems" could be gone

[henfan]

1) Kick out UNH, Maine, Towson, W&M, and Richmond (and Northeastern and Hofstra in all other sports)
2) Add App State, Georgia Southern, Charlotte, and Liberty (as all-sports members)
3) Move to FBS

These kinds of posts just aren't smart.

The CAA has voting procedures for membership; 3/4 majority vote carries all membership issues. Absent violations, proper justification and the number of votes needed to do so, how does the conference 'kick out' the schools mentioned and why would they want to? Silly.

[ccd494]

These kinds of posts just aren't smart.

The CAA has voting procedures for membership; 3/4 majority vote carries all membership issues. Absent violations, proper justification and the number of votes needed to do so, how does the conference 'kick out' the schools mentioned and why would they want to? Silly.

Don't UNH, Maine and Richmond have a full vote in all football matters?

[UNHFootballAlum]

How is all of this uncertainty affecting recruiting for UNH & Maine primarily?

[danefan]

Don't UNH, Maine and Richmond have a full vote in all football matters?

yes. CAA football conference is a separate entity. There are no affiliate members. All full voting members.

[Appfan_in_CAAland]

These kinds of posts just aren't smart.....Silly.

99% of everything ever posted on any internet message board are silly - at least that's the way I treat them.

[South Carolina Duke]

Any schools that come into the CAA fold need to be all sport members...period.

It is just a matter of time before JMU is out of the CAA for good.

Go Dukes!

[BlueHenSinfonian]

Any schools that come into the CAA fold need to be all sport members...period.

It is just a matter of time before JMU is out of the CAA for good.

Go Dukes!

The CAA is a great FCS football conference, and a pretty solid mid-major basketball conference, none of the other sports really matter in terms of potential membership. Basketball has been improving in the CAA, but it still isn't at the level of the A-10, which should be the next goal.

[Jackman]

The CAA already has 12 all-sports members. You should get rid of some of them before you add more.

[jmufan]

The CAA already has 12 all-sports members. You should get rid of some of them before you add more.

I don't see that happening anytime soon. Too bad the CAA doesn't announce plans to be a FBS Conference. Then we could really see things move.

[DSUrocks07]

Doesn't NCAA rules prohibit a conference from moving up to FBS? Sounds to me that moving the entire CAA up to FBS would be a 10 year process at least.

1) The 12 schools moving up line up FBS conference affliations (Sun Belt, C-USA, MAC)
2) Every school moving up announces on the same date. (App, Charlotte, Georgia Southern, Liberty, and the CAA members including UMass)
2) Two years later the CAA Football conference officially dissolves (lack of members)
3) Three years after that, the 12 schools in question are full fledged FBS members, seven of them, citing travel concerns, move independent in FBS.
4) Two years after that, those "Single Seven" join together to revive the CAA football conference (FBS), extending invites to the other five schools.
5) Two years after that, CAA Football is back and "better than ever"

[AppMan]

I agree. Moving from the CAA to the NEC is a downgrade. The NEC is a fine conference for what it is - one designed to contain costs but still offer a high level of play.

The selling point behind the 1-AA / FCS concept back in 1980 was cost contanment.

[Seawolf97]

The selling point behind the 1-AA / FCS concept back in 1980 was cost contanment.

Looking at the landscape now-I think that concept is in deep trouble.

[BlueHenSinfonian]

The selling point behind the 1-AA / FCS concept back in 1980 was cost contanment.

Back in the 80s it probably wasn't a bad idea. Now, many schools have lower attendance at games than they did back then (and why that is is an entirely different thread, but it seems that a lot of students don't value going to the games and supporting their school as much as they once did), costs for fielding any football program have gone up considerably, and tighter oversight of Title IX has lead to increased athletic department costs for any school that supports football. It's becoming clear that the middle ground between a big time football program that is self sufficient, and a low-cost football program that doesn't have championship aspirations, but exists just to enrich the campus a bit, is becoming hard to tread.

Right now there is a divide forming in the FCS between schools like App State, Delaware, JMU, Georgia Southern, Montana, etc, who draw large crowds, profit from football, and would be happy to invest further probably up to FBS scholarship levels if they could, and other schools like URI, Lafayette, the NEC, and the PFL that are looking to have football, but do it with as little monetary investment as possible. I could see the FCS and FBS possibly merging in the future, and the NCAA allowing schools that want to support Div I athletics but don't want to support big football being allowed to field Div II or Div III football teams as an exception to the 'all sports under one division' rule.

[Sly Fox]

If the CAA were to have a majority vote to move the league up to FBS, it would in essence force the dissenters to either go along or leave. In the case of W&M, all indications are that they would choose the latter. Likewise for most (if not all) of the affiliates. That would create the space needed to add the other Southern regional additions looking to partner up at FBS such as App, GeoSo & Liberty. It is not that outlandish of a scenario under circumstances as they have developed the past 18 months.

[citdog]

Northern Expansion? where's my sword? xrulesxxlolxxeyebrowx

[Tealblood]

I would think Coastal at some point would like to be associated with an area where a bunch of our student body comes from

and on day 1 we bring some credibility in 2 sports baseball and mens golf--both of which we are ranked in the top 20 fairly consistently in

[Tealblood]

Northern Expansion? where's my sword? xrulesxxlolxxeyebrowx

I guess you could take expansion the same as aggression ;)

[Go...gate]

Northern Expansion? where's my sword? xrulesxxlolxxeyebrowx

I figured if any thread would bring you over to visit, this one would.

Happy belated Hanukkah and Happy New Year a bit early.

[youwouldno]

If the CAA were to have a majority vote to move the league up to FBS, it would in essence force the dissenters to either go along or leave. In the case of W&M, all indications are that they would choose the latter. Likewise for most (if not all) of the affiliates. That would create the space needed to add the other Southern regional additions looking to partner up at FBS such as App, GeoSo & Liberty. It is not that outlandish of a scenario under circumstances as they have developed the past 18 months.

Well conferences aren't currently allowed to move up as an entity, and the prospect of various programs being kicked to the curb is not exactly a great pitch for the NCAA to make an exception.

It's a moot point though because there would never be a majority for that move. Look at who the voting members are and it's pretty obvious.