SWAC invites Tennessee State to join

[bluedog]

The Southwestern Athletic Conference has invited Tennessee State to join the league, The Times has learned.
Tennessee State, currently a member of the Ohio Valley Conference, plays two or three SWAC schools annually, and league officials believe the Tigers would be a good fit.
TSU athletics director Teresa Phillips, reached earlier this week, elected not to comment on the issue, but said school officials have discussed conference affiliation in recent years.
"We had a study looking at several things, including conference affiliation, but we never had a conclusion to that," Phillips said. "That conversation is always somewhere. It's always on the tip of our tongue."
SWAC commissioner Duer Sharp chose not to comment when contacted by The Times.

Read more (http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2010/12/swac_invites_tennessee_state_t.html)

xcoffeex

[T-Dog]

Not terribly surprising. They are pretty much a de-facto SWAC school anyway.

[BlackNGoldR3v0lut10n]

Dear Tennessee State,

Don't do it. You have a lot to lose by doing this.

[TexasTerror]

Conferences do not tend to make invites, unless they are assured that the school (or schools) receiving the invites are very likely to accept. This holds true for most of the conference moves we've seen outside of the WAC, who has publicly invited numerous schools, who have in turn rejected Karl Benson... namely North Texas.

I do not know why Tennessee State would benefit from this...

The SWAC's revenues from the NCAA are low and the travel/missed class time would be much greater in the SWAC than the OVC, correct? The only question is whether playing the SWAC schools annually would provide enough increase in revenues for football that it would cover all those concerns?

[bluedog]

Conferences do not tend to make invites, unless they are assured that the school (or schools) receiving the invites are very likely to accept. This holds true for most of the conference moves we've seen outside of the WAC, who has publicly invited numerous schools, who have in turn rejected Karl Benson... namely North Texas.

I do not know why Tennessee State would benefit from this...

The SWAC's revenues from the NCAA are low and the travel/missed class time would be much greater in the SWAC than the OVC, correct? The only question is whether playing the SWAC schools annually would provide enough increase in revenues for football that it would cover all those concerns?

You also claim that participating in the playoffs would benefit the MEAC by having increase exposure and in turn better recruits and eventually better facilities.

Well a decade and a half later they hav no better exposure, no better reruits and the SWAC has at least three schools who are planning to build brand new stadiums and their admin. (MEAC) are saying they can't afford to go broke.

[Franks Tanks]

You also claim that participating in the playoffs would benefit the MEAC by having increase exposure and in turn better recruits and eventually better facilities.

Well a decade and a half later they hav no better exposure, no better reruits and the SWAC has at least three schools who are planning to build brand new stadiums and their admin. (MEAC) are saying they can't afford to go broke.


MEAC schools get a Thursday night nationally televised game on ESPNU every week. Not too bad. I think SWAC games are also on, but the MEAC games seem to be featured more often.

[danefan]

MEAC schools get a Thursday night nationally televised game on ESPNU every week. Not too bad. I think SWAC games are also on, but the MEAC games seem to be featured more often.

True, but the SWAC schools get those "Classics" on network TV.

Both of them get better coverage than most FCS conferences though, and definitely better then the OVC.

[bluedog]

MEAC schools get a Thursday night nationally televised game on ESPNU every week. Not too bad. I think SWAC games are also on, but the MEAC games seem to be featured more often.

Give me whatever it is you are drinking. xlolxxlolxxlolx

[Franks Tanks]

Give me whatever it is you are drinking. xlolxxlolxxlolx


All I am saying is that MEAC schools get decent exposure. Not necessarily better than the SWAC, but better than many FCS squads.

[bluedog]

All I am saying is that MEAC schools get decent exposure. Not necessarily better than the SWAC, but better than many FCS squads.

What you're saying isn't true, but then again what's new about that on this board.

You folks really need to stay off the kool-aid.


A weekly game on ESPNU xlmaox

[danefan]

What you're saying isn't true, but then again what's new about that on this board.

You folks really need to stay off the kool-aid.


A weekly game on ESPNU xlmaox

the MEAC had 8 ESPN/U/Classic games this year. Again to the point, 8 out of 12 weeks on national TV is 8 weeks more then most FCS conferences get.

[Franks Tanks]

What you're saying isn't true, but then again what's new about that on this board.

You folks really need to stay off the kool-aid.


A weekly game on ESPNU xlmaox

How many FCS teams appear on national television?

[bluedog]

ESPNU / Classic Thursday Night Football Schedule
DATE TIME (ET) DESCRIPTION NETWORK
9/2/2010 7:30 PM Minnesota at Middle Tennessee ESPNU Thur
9/9/2010 7:00 PM Central Michigan at Temple ESPNU Thur
9/30/2010 7:30 PM Hampton at Delaware State ESPNU Thur
10/7/2010 7:30 PM Prairie View A&M at Arkansas-Pine Bluff ESPNU Thur
10/21/2010 7:30 PM Arkansas-Pine Bluff at Alcorn State ESPNU Thur
10/28/2010 7:30 PM North Carolina A&T at Bethune-Cookman ESPNU Thur
11/4/2010 7:30 PM Buffalo at Ohio ESPNU Thur
11/11/2010 7:30 PM South Carolina State at Morgan State ESPNU Thur
11/11/2010 7:30 PM Grambling State at Texas Southern ESPN CL Thur
11/25/2010 4:00 PM Tuskegee at Alabama State ESPNU Thur

Alcorn State at Mississippi State 11:00 a.m. FSS / SUN / ESPN

SWAC Championship

MEAC/SWAC Challenge

Bayou Classic-NBC (38 YEARS AND RUNNING)

Florida Classic (not tape delayed this year.)

Saturday morning re-runs and ESPN3.COM don't count xlolx


http://www.hdsportsguide.com/news/2010/espn-2010-thursday-night-college-football-schedule/

[danefan]

ESPNU / Classic Thursday Night Football Schedule
DATE TIME (ET) DESCRIPTION NETWORK
9/2/2010 7:30 PM Minnesota at Middle Tennessee ESPNU Thur
9/9/2010 7:00 PM Central Michigan at Temple ESPNU Thur
9/30/2010 7:30 PM Hampton at Delaware State ESPNU Thur
10/7/2010 7:30 PM Prairie View A&M at Arkansas-Pine Bluff ESPNU Thur
10/21/2010 7:30 PM Arkansas-Pine Bluff at Alcorn State ESPNU Thur
10/28/2010 7:30 PM North Carolina A&T at Bethune-Cookman ESPNU Thur
11/4/2010 7:30 PM Buffalo at Ohio ESPNU Thur
11/11/2010 7:30 PM South Carolina State at Morgan State ESPNU Thur
11/11/2010 7:30 PM Grambling State at Texas Southern ESPN CL Thur
11/25/2010 4:00 PM Tuskegee at Alabama State ESPNU Thur

SWAC Championship

MEAC/SWAC Challenge

Bayou Classic-NBC (38 YEARS AND RUNNING)

Saturday morning re-runs don't count xlolx


http://www.hdsportsguide.com/news/2010/espn-2010-thursday-night-college-football-schedule/

Any time on national TV counts for an FCS program and once again, we're saying the same thing as you are, but for some reason we're wrong and you're rigth. The SWAC and MEAC both have better national TV deals than all the other FCS conferences, including Tenn. Tech's OVC.

[Panther88]

ESPNU / Classic Thursday Night Football Schedule
DATE TIME (ET) DESCRIPTION NETWORK
9/2/2010 7:30 PM Minnesota at Middle Tennessee ESPNU Thur
9/9/2010 7:00 PM Central Michigan at Temple ESPNU Thur
9/30/2010 7:30 PM Hampton at Delaware State ESPNU Thur
10/7/2010 7:30 PM Prairie View A&M at Arkansas-Pine Bluff ESPNU Thur
10/21/2010 7:30 PM Arkansas-Pine Bluff at Alcorn State ESPNU Thur
10/28/2010 7:30 PM North Carolina A&T at Bethune-Cookman ESPNU Thur
11/4/2010 7:30 PM Buffalo at Ohio ESPNU Thur
11/11/2010 7:30 PM South Carolina State at Morgan State ESPNU Thur
11/11/2010 7:30 PM Grambling State at Texas Southern ESPN CL Thur
11/25/2010 4:00 PM Tuskegee at Alabama State ESPNU Thur

Alcorn State at Mississippi State 11:00 a.m. FSS / SUN / ESPN

SWAC Championship

MEAC/SWAC Challenge

Bayou Classic-NBC (38 YEARS AND RUNNING)

Saturday morning re-runs and ESPN3.COM don't count xlolx


http://www.hdsportsguide.com/news/2010/espn-2010-thursday-night-college-football-schedule/

Like he lied earlier, I mean stated earlier blue, that's 8 of 12 weeks. :)

Ridiculously insipid.

[bluedog]

Any time on national TV counts for an FCS program and once again, we're saying the same thing as you are, but for some reason we're wrong and you're rigth. The SWAC and MEAC both have better national TV deals than all the other FCS conferences, including Tenn. Tech's OVC.


MEAC schools get a Thursday night nationally televised game on ESPNU every week. Not too bad. I think SWAC games are also on, but the MEAC games seem to be featured more often.

Work on your comprehension skills a little more then grow up....OK?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

ESPNU / Classic Thursday Night Football Schedule
DATE TIME (ET) DESCRIPTION NETWORK
9/2/2010 7:30 PM Minnesota at Middle Tennessee ESPNU Thur
9/9/2010 7:00 PM Central Michigan at Temple ESPNU Thur
9/30/2010 7:30 PM Hampton at Delaware State ESPNU Thur
10/7/2010 7:30 PM Prairie View A&M at Arkansas-Pine Bluff ESPNU Thur
10/21/2010 7:30 PM Arkansas-Pine Bluff at Alcorn State ESPNU Thur
10/28/2010 7:30 PM North Carolina A&T at Bethune-Cookman ESPNU Thur
11/4/2010 7:30 PM Buffalo at Ohio ESPNU Thur
11/11/2010 7:30 PM South Carolina State at Morgan State ESPNU Thur
11/11/2010 7:30 PM Grambling State at Texas Southern ESPN CL Thur
11/25/2010 4:00 PM Tuskegee at Alabama State ESPNU Thur

Alcorn State at Mississippi State 11:00 a.m. FSS / SUN / ESPN

SWAC Championship

MEAC/SWAC Challenge

Bayou Classic-NBC (38 YEARS AND RUNNING)

Saturday morning re-runs and ESPN3.COM don't count xlolx


http://www.hdsportsguide.com/news/2010/espn-2010-thursday-night-college-football-schedule/

I don't know if you're intentionally not including the Florida Classic between FAMU and B-CU, but you are. That makes the coverage an even split down the middle, basically. 4 MEAC only games, 4 SWAC only games, the MEAC/SWAC challenge, and the occasional FBS play-up game. Yes, ESPN covers the SWAC championship game, but the MEAC has an opportunity for more ESPN games if they win in the playoffs. For example, had they beaten UNH, they'd be playing at Delaware in prime-time tonight.

And not for nothing, but the crown jewel of those ESPN games is the Florida Classic, IMVHO.

Personally, I really dislike Thursday night games in general. No fans really go to the games, meaning their "TV time" is generally greeted with empty seats, and teams struggle in preparation due to a short week. I'd much rather watch a Saturday game with some "atmosphere", even if it's not on a major network.

[bluedog]

I don't know if you're intentionally not including the Florida Classic between FAMU and B-CU, but you are. That makes the coverage an even split down the middle, basically. 4 MEAC only games, 4 SWAC only games, the MEAC/SWAC challenge, and the occasional FBS play-up game. Yes, ESPN covers the SWAC championship game, but the MEAC has an opportunity for more ESPN games if they win in the playoffs. For example, had they beaten UNH, they'd be playing at Delaware in prime-time tonight.

And not for nothing, but the crown jewel of those ESPN games is the Florida Classic, IMVHO.

Personally, I really dislike Thursday night games in general. No fans really go to the games, meaning their "TV time" is generally greeted with empty seats, and teams struggle in preparation due to a short week. I'd much rather watch a Saturday game with some "atmosphere", even if it's not on a major network.

hAVEN'T CONFIRM WHETHER IT WAS A RE-RUN OR NOT THIS YEAR AS USUAL YET, BUT IT DOESN'T MATTER ONE WAY OR THE OTHER..

i WASN'T THE ONE MAKING FALSE STATMENT THAT THE MEAC IS FEATURE MORE

[Lehigh Football Nation]

First comment: the enthusiasm for the move seems to be coming from the SWAC side, not the Tennessee State side:


TSU athletics director Teresa Phillips, reached earlier this week, elected not to comment on the issue...

One TSU official who asked not to be identified, indicated a decision won't be made any time soon because an interim president will take office at the beginning of the year when Dr. Melvin Johnson steps down.

Second comment: Hard to really see what's in it for Tennessee State. Right now, they already have Classics with SWAC schools, and they have a more regional conference for their non-revenue sports. What does the SWAC really give them except piddly revenue from Thursday night games and an expanded travel footprint? It's not like they can expand the number of Classics they're already in.

[WileECoyote06]

bluedog,

He used the word 'seem' in his sentence. That makes it an opinion. . . so he isn't necessarily wrong.

[bluedog]

First comment: the enthusiasm for the move seems to be coming from the SWAC side, not the Tennessee State side:



Second comment: Hard to really see what's in it for Tennessee State. Right now, they already have Classics with SWAC schools, and they have a more regional conference for their non-revenue sports. What does the SWAC really give them except piddly revenue from Thursday night games and an expanded travel footprint? It's not like they can expand the number of Classics they're already in.

That's because you guys view of anything outside your comfort zone is skewed, because you know nothing of our history.

SOUTHERN vs TNSU

GRAMBLING vs TNSU

AAMU vs TNSU

JSU vs TNSU

That's half what their schedule would be when they join and then they have the opportunity to keep their other rivalry games with SCSU/FAMU


They avg right at 15,000 in attendance this year with 4 games and the recorded attn for the SWAC gms were 22607/44688 respectively.

So what does that tell you?

[danefan]

Like he lied earlier, I mean stated earlier blue, that's 8 of 12 weeks. :)

Ridiculously insipid.

No I remember why I don't venture into these SWAC discussions....................................... ..everybody's a liar and stupid by the end of it. Keep up the good fight guys. xwhistlex

But I do wonder how some of you guys walk around with that huge chip on your shoulders. Must have some seriously strong backs.

[bluedog]

bluedog,

He used the word 'seem' in his sentence. That makes it an opinion. . . so he isn't necessarily wrong.

Umm....OK

[Franks Tanks]

Work on your comprehension skills a little more then grow up....OK?

WTF is your problem? Perhaps I was wrong, and there are more SWAC games on TV-- who cares? My point was simply that the MEAC has good exposure via ESPN, and many conferences would kill for that. This isn't a MEAC/SWAC pissing match so just stop.

[bluedog]

No I remember why I don't venture into these SWAC discussions....................................... ..everybody's a liar and stupid by the end of it. Keep up the good fight guys. xwhistlex

But I do wonder how some of you guys walk around with that huge chip on your shoulders. Must have some seriously strong backs.

Heck I wonder how some of you walk around period. It has to be hard to see wher you're going with all the xbawlingxxbawlingxxbawlingx every time some one points out that you don't know what you're talking about.

[bluedog]

WTF is your problem? Perhaps I was wrong, and there are more SWAC games on TV-- who cares? My point was simply that the MEAC has good exposure via ESPN, and many conferences would kill for that. This isn't a MEAC/SWAC pissing match so just stop.

It's painfully obvious for you it is.

[GannonFan]

I don't see all the hub-bub over this. If TSU wants to go them by all means, let them go. I'm sure it makes better financial sense for them and really, can they fall any further in terms of competitiveness on the field? It's not like the OVC is winning playoff games anyway so it's not like they'd be walking away from anything in terms of on the field performance.

[bluedog]

I don't see all the hub-bub over this. If TSU wants to go them by all means, let them go. I'm sure it makes better financial sense for them and really, can they fall any further in terms of competitiveness on the field? It's not like the OVC is winning playoff games anyway so it's not like they'd be walking away from anything in terms of on the field performance.

Thank you , you would think that they were leaving the SEC or something the way some or responding.

Read (http://http://www.ovcsports.com/standings/Standings.dbml?SPID=2441&DB_OEM_ID=6200)

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I don't see all the hub-bub over this. If TSU wants to go them by all means, let them go. I'm sure it makes better financial sense for them and really, can they fall any further in terms of competitiveness on the field? It's not like the OVC is winning playoff games anyway so it's not like they'd be walking away from anything in terms of on the field performance.

What? xconfusedx

The non-revenue SWAC championships are mostly around the New Orleans area, whereas last year's OVC track and field championships, for example, were a bus ride for TSU to Tennessee Tech. Travel costs for TSU will be much more significant.

The Atlanta Classic is televised nationally - on a Saturday - by Vs. You can't tell me that they don't get a better conference deal with ESPN than the financials from that classic that they don't need to share with anybody. And I'm not even including their other existing classics with SWAC schools.

What am I missing, here? Were you talking sarcastically or something?

[bluedog]

OMG......

[TexasTerror]

bluedog brings up exposure - thought SWAC fans did not talk about 'soft money'.

The hard money is as LFN says - the cost of doing business is going up tremendously. TNST will see huge increases in travel costs and missed class time. Come on now, shouldn't be hard to see that a low major like TNST who is a stone's throw from much of the OVC (if not all of it) would not jump into a SWAC where its budget would be busting...

Lower NCAA payout
Lower level of NCAA competition
No chance at a national championship in football.

[bluedog]

bluedog brings up exposure - thought SWAC fans did not talk about 'soft money'.
The hard money is as LFN says - the cost of doing business is going up tremendously. TNST will see huge increases in travel costs and missed class time. Come on now, shouldn't be hard to see that a low major like TNST who is a stone's throw from much of the OVC (if not all of it) would not jump into a SWAC where its budget would be busting...

Lower NCAA payout
Lower level of NCAA competition
No chance at a national championship in football.

Here you come with your lying and twisting of the facts.

I should have known it wouldn't be long

[MplsBison]

This move is basically the same thing as saying "Ok white, UT-Nashville students...you can leave the room now - we're going full-black".

[dbackjon]

Travel costs will skyrocket. Not sure the TN legislature will pay for this.

[bluedog]

This move is basically the same thing as saying "Ok white, UT-Nashville students...you can leave the room now - we're going full-black".

Well you can't blame TNSU if their white students are still lost in the dark ages can you?

[bluedog]

Travel costs will skyrocket. Not sure the TN legislature will pay for this.

Where's you proof?

[Nor Eastern]

I can see why TSU would want to jump to the SWAC; their 0-7 season in the OVC. Move to an easier conference and enjoy greater success on the field.

[bluedog]

I can see why TSU would want to jump to the SWAC; their 0-7 season in the OVC. Move to an easier conference and enjoy greater success on the field.


Yep ...man I didn't know there were so many informative folks on this board.

Dude you outta run for governor or something...Palin did

[Nor Eastern]

Let's just look at their wins.

Alabama A&M - SWAC
Florida A&M - MEAC
N. Carolina A&T - MEAC


0-7 in Conference and 3-1 against HBCU.

Seems that's more their playing field.

Not trying to knock it. They gotta do what's best for them.

[WileECoyote06]

This move is basically the same thing as saying "Ok white, UT-Nashville students...you can leave the room now - we're going full-black".

Merging with UT-Nashville didn't magically erase TSU's history. If the white students leave because TSU joined the SWAC; well good riddance.

[bluedog]

Let's just look at their wins.

Alabama A&M - SWAC
Florida A&M - MEAC
N. Carolina A&T - MEAC


0-7 in Conference and 3-1 against HBCU.

Seems that's more their playing field.

Not trying to knock it. They gotta do what's best for them.

So you came to that conclusion by looking at just one year?

Like I said dude, you outta run for governor.

[Nor Eastern]

Fine:

2009 - 3-4 OVC ; 1-3 HBCU
2008 - 5-3 OVC ; 3-1 HBCU
2007 - 4-4 OVC ; 1-3 HBCU


And so on.

Seems they have a better chance to be successful in the SWAC. Like I said, not a knock. Seems a better playing fit.

[bluedog]

Fine:

2009 - 3-4 OVC ; 1-3 HBCU
2008 - 5-3 OVC ; 3-1 HBCU
2007 - 4-4 OVC ; 1-3 HBCU


And so on.

Seems they have a better chance to be successful in the SWAC. Like I said, not a knock. Seems a better playing fit.

OK let me get this correct, in three years thay are 5-7 against MEAC/SWAC and in that same time span they're 12-11 against the OVC and you came to the conclusion that they fit better (not fair) in the SWAC.


Yep YOU'LL MAKE A GREAT governor.

[Nor Eastern]

In four years they're 8-8 MEAC/SWAC and 12-18 OVC.

You'll be a great thinker when you grow up.

[TexasTerror]

I can see why TSU would want to jump to the SWAC; their 0-7 season in the OVC. Move to an easier conference and enjoy greater success on the field.

The SWAC is ranked last or second to last in RPI in every team sport - and I mean EVERY team sport in which an RPI is taken into consideration. If its success they want, they would improve.

NCAA payout would be lower due to SWAC's lack of success though, would think...


Where's you proof?

Have you looked at the map of the Ohio Valley Conference? Is it a bus league for Tennessee State? Are all trips within 8-9 hours? Nashville is more than 8-9 hours from Houston and Baton Rouge, I'm sure...

http://www.nmnathletics.com/fls/6200/Graphics%20Library/OVC%20Map/OVC_Map_2008_web.jpg?DB_OEM_ID=6200

[dbackjon]

Where's you proof?

For what?

Simple geography shows that travel costs for all sports will skyrocket.

Having lived in Nashville for a number of years, I can tell you that TSU will have to find this extra money somewhere, but it won't be public money.

[dbackjon]

The SWAC is ranked last or second to last in RPI in every team sport - and I mean EVERY team sport in which an RPI is taken into consideration. If its success they want, they would improve.

NCAA payout would be lower due to SWAC's lack of success though, would think...



Have you looked at the map of the Ohio Valley Conference? Is it a bus league for Tennessee State? Are all trips within 8-9 hours? Nashville is more than 8-9 hours from Houston and Baton Rouge, I'm sure...

http://www.nmnathletics.com/fls/6200/Graphics%20Library/OVC%20Map/OVC_Map_2008_web.jpg?DB_OEM_ID=6200

Longest trip is currently 6 hours, to the Illinois schools. EKU/Morehead are 5, SEMO/JSU is 3.5. Others are two or less.

AA&M is closest at 2 hours. Houston is 13 hours.

[bluedog]

The SWAC is ranked last or second to last in RPI in every team sport - and I mean EVERY team sport in which an RPI is taken into consideration. If its success they want, they would improve.


Dude I could care less if they vcome or not....really

Conference Ranking:
Rank, League, Total Average

1. Colonial Athletic Association (22.188)
2. Missouri Valley Football Conference (27.234)
3. Big Sky Conference (29.097)
4. Southern Conference (30.403)
5. Great West Conference (38.750)
6. Southland Conference (39.875)
7. Ohio Valley Conference (41.792)
8. Ivy League (57.719)
9. Northeast Conference (58.125)
10. Southwestern Athletic Conference (59.65)
11. Big South Conference (60.554)
12. Patriot League (64.232)
13. Mid-Eastern Athletic Conference (66.694)
14. Independents (66.844)
15. Pioneer Football League (70.213)

http://www.collegesportingnews.com/content.php?331-GPI-11-23-2010

College Football Rankings BY DECADE (http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/rankings/decade_conf_rankings.php?period=2000-2009)


College Football Rankings BY ALL TIME (http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/rankings/all_time_conf_rankings.php)

[BearsCountry]

So is Tuskegee coming into the SWAC as well?

[Big Al]

I've always said the HBCUs in general and the SWAC & MEAC in particular are an asset to FCS football. I've also said the NCAA needs to figure out a way to make the playoffs more attractive to the HBCUs because of all they can offer to the FCS as a whole.

Having said that, Tennessee State moving to the SWAC would be a step backwards. Not necessarily for football, but certainly for everything else.

[TexasTerror]

Longest trip is currently 6 hours, to the Illinois schools. EKU/Morehead are 5, SEMO/JSU is 3.5. Others are two or less.

AA&M is closest at 2 hours. Houston is 13 hours.

Thanks dback! I also enjoy your posts on CSI, when you make'em - I lurk around there and message Quinn as needed. The travel for TNST in the OVC is phenomenal!

[MplsBison]

Merging with UT-Nashville didn't magically erase TSU's history. If the white students leave because TSU joined the SWAC; well good riddance.

It's not that current white students would leave.

It's that future white students won't apply. Why would a white student apply to a school that "doesn't want them"? IE, a school that markets itself, at least indirectly via its athletic association, as a school for blacks.

[Panther88]

It's not that current white students would leave.

It's that future white students won't apply. Why would a white student apply to a school that "doesn't want them"? IE, a school that markets itself, at least indirectly via its athletic association, as a school for blacks.

Dude, get off your segregationist aryan parcel of land and enter the new century. When would TnSU market itself as not wanting "whites?" When has A-N-Y HBCU marketed itself as such or even intimated that it would NOT accept "whites?"

I swear some of you guys posting on this site are stuck on a special kind of insipid. Geez man.

[WileECoyote06]

It's not that current white students would leave.

It's that future white students won't apply. Why would a white student apply to a school that "doesn't want them"? IE, a school that markets itself, at least indirectly via its athletic association, as a school for blacks.

It can be opined that those students wouldn't go to TSU either way. If a white student feels uncomfortable with being around collegiate black kids; then that is his or her problem. On the other hand, maybe they will develop empathy for what black kids have grown to accept when we enroll at Austin Peay, or Duke, or North Dakota State.

And btw, it's okay to market a college as being for a particular group (discipline, ethnic group, religion, race, gender, etc). I'm sure Xavier, Notre Dame, and Villanova have no problem referencing their Catholic roots. I'm sure Yeshiva and Brandeis, have no problem advertising they are Jewish-supported colleges. Spelman, Bennett, Vassar and Wellesley are all women's colleges. Haskell's Indian Nation University, Brigham Young, Liberty, UTEP, Colorado School of Mines, UNC-Pembroke, Cal-State Dominguez, Coast Guard Academy, and Savannah College of Art and Design all have a focus that has been shaped by their history.

I wanted to use much more expressive language, but I held my tongue.

[bjtheflamesfan]

Alright...everybody FREEZE!

That will be quite enough. I dont mind people giving opinions because that is what a message board is for but you guys are stepping near thread shutdown territory.

Mpls you are somebody Im seriously keeping my eye on and posts like the one Panther88 quoted that can get you in some real hot water so Id reconsider your point.

As for the rest of you, if this keeps progressing the way it is I will not be afraid to shut it down...

[WestCoastAggie]

I've always said the HBCUs in general and the SWAC & MEAC in particular are an asset to FCS football. I've also said the NCAA needs to figure out a way to make the playoffs more attractive to the HBCUs because of all they can offer to the FCS as a whole.

Having said that, Tennessee State moving to the SWAC would be a step backwards. Not necessarily for football, but certainly for everything else.

To get HBCU's back into the FCS Playoffs, the NCAA, if they feel they need to, must:

1. Move back the start date of the opening round to after Thanksgiving. The "old heads" who spend money at HBCU's do not want the Turkey Day Classic & Bayou Classic moved from This weekend. Old Heads love the history and tradition of the games.

2. The NCAA must get a TV contract that makes a whole lot more than what they make from the modest deal they have already. The decision of the impending Legacy Bowl is based off of money.

But the issue with this TV Deal is that there aren't many FCS teams, PWC or HBCU, that have the ability to bring eyeballs to the TV in enough numbers to generate the big enough contract that would pay all conferences. For example, If App. State loses this weekend, there are no teams that will generate any national attention for the FCS Semis and the Champ game that is competing for viewers.

There just isn't much interest in small schools compared to the Big BCS Schools.

[wheatstraw78]

I applaud the move if it makes sense financially. I've read on this message board and others that Jacksonville State is considering a move to the FBS or switching conference affiliation. If thats the case the strenght of our conference will take a hit. Despite the lack of success on the field in recent years, we trail only Jax state in attendance and is top 15 in total attendance year in and year out. I would imagine that attendance would be greater if we played our traditional rivals which happen to be in the SWAC. I say lets do it!

[Bigmoneymike]

It's not that current white students would leave.

It's that future white students won't apply. Why would a white student apply to a school that "doesn't want them"? IE, a school that markets itself, at least indirectly via its athletic association, as a school for blacks.

Because they can go to school for free.

[Big Al]

1. Move back the start date of the opening round to after Thanksgiving. The "old heads" who spend money at HBCU's do not want the Turkey Day Classic & Bayou Classic moved from This weekend. Old Heads love the history and tradition of the games.

Considering some of the changes the NCAA has made to the playoff format and what small crowds the schools draw for first-round games, I don't see why this couldn't be worked out.


2. The NCAA must get a TV contract that makes a whole lot more than what they make from the modest deal they have already. The decision of the impending Legacy Bowl is based off of money.

Do the HBCU's really make a lot of TV money from the various classics? Or does the real money come from ticket sales? Real question, because I honestly don't know the answer.

Looking at HBCUs from the outside, I am often left wondering at the state of athletics in many HBCU universities. A popular refrain from many SWAC fans is how the playoffs cost the colleges so much money. Yet, it seems like some of the most cash-strapped schools in FCS are in the SWAC *cough*MississippiValleyState*cough* so I wonder how well their system is working for them?

Like I said, I like lots of things about the HBCU history and experience but there are many aspects that leave me very puzzled, as well.

[TSUalum05]

NCAA payout would be lower due to SWAC's lack of success though, would think...


What are the current payouts? I seen them a few weeks ago and they are quite alarming.

[TexasTerror]

What are the current payouts? I seen them a few weeks ago and they are quite alarming.

Actually, the SWAC schools rec'd more than Tennessee State in 2008-09. Trying to think what this stems from, but may come from the amount of sports sponsored by the SWAC in comparison to the OVC? It certainly does not stem from 'windows' in the NCAA tournament.

Either way, the OVC is a few steps ahead of the SWAC. Could Tennessee State come in and win SWAC titles in most sports right away? Probably, but their recruiting would dip tremendously IMO because the SWAC is just not a marketable league for TNST outside of football.

[TSUalum05]

NCAA payout would be lower due to SWAC's lack of success though, would think...

Basically, you were off base in this assertion.


Actually, the SWAC schools rec'd more than Tennessee State in 2008-09. Trying to think what this stems from, but may come from the amount of sports sponsored by the SWAC in comparison to the OVC? It certainly does not stem from 'windows' in the NCAA tournament.

The SWAC sponsors 1 more sport than the OVC and here's some payout figures from 2008-09....
http://catalog.proemags.com/publication/cc5da338#/cc5da338/36



Either way, the OVC is a few steps ahead of the SWAC. Probably, but their recruiting would dip tremendously IMO because the SWAC is just not a marketable league for TNST outside of football.

I would agree that the OVC is a few steps, maybe 1 or 2 ahead of the SWAC. But the culture is beggining to change in the SWAC with administrators (at least the Texas schools, which will directly influence the other schools, including MVSU).

However, I disagree when it comes to the recruiting part of it. If you have a good coach, with a good recruiting budget, they could get the same players.

When I was being recruited by D-1 and NAIA schools from multiple conferences, I never once heard anything about conference rankings. This was from Sunbelt, WAC, Big West schools.

So basically the dip would be if there recruiting budget slips. As a recruit, I see no difference from Texas Southern, to Tennessee Tech, to Mississippi Valley to Murray State to Sam Houston to whatever other FCS schools that are out there...Once you get away from the big boys (U Texas, Texas A&M), most of the other schools recruits were never fans of a Central Arkansas, they were fans of Univ of Ark. They were never fans of Mcneese, they were fans of LSU. Same with me...I was never a fan of any SWAC schools being from California; it just so happened during my recruiting process, Texas Southern was the best for me...

[TexasTerror]

I would agree that the OVC is a few steps, maybe 1 or 2 ahead of the SWAC. But the culture is beggining to change in the SWAC with administrators (at least the Texas schools, which will directly influence the other schools, including MVSU).

The culture is beginning to change? Yes, at the Texas schools, but where is the additional money coming from to fund the other schools? MVSU is the lowest funded Division I program (with football) in the country. The others are not much better and the gap is growing between the TSU/PVAMU and the rest of the schools in the league. Culture is changing, but so is the resources between top and bottom.


When I was being recruited by D-1 and NAIA schools from multiple conferences, I never once heard anything about conference rankings. This was from Sunbelt, WAC, Big West schools.

You will hear about conference stability nowadays... coaches have talked about using it against the WAC as of late! And playing on a big stage is most certainly brought up. Outside of the Classics, the SWAC schools do not even play some of the top tier FBS schools (football) though I guess you could say they do in hoops (with the 'whore-like' schedules), but that can't be too fun...

End of the day... budgets matter. The travel budget goes up tremendously for TNST in the SWAC compared to the bus league OVC. Why move?

[Redhawk2010]

Dear Tennessee State,

Please leave the OVC. You don't fully compete in football. You don't compete in baseball or soccer. That is all.

[WileECoyote06]

Dear Tennessee State,

Please leave the OVC. You don't fully compete in football. You don't compete in baseball or soccer. That is all.

Win a championship and all of a sudden yall are the hot stuff now, huh?

[TSUalum05]

You will hear about conference stability nowadays... coaches have talked about using it against the WAC as of late! And playing on a big stage is most certainly brought up. Outside of the Classics

Stability? The SWAC is not going anywhere and neither are any of the schools who compete in the SWAC.

As far as the WAC, who's not going to use stability against them, just like the Big 12. We don't know if they will exist in a few years but that has nothing to do with my comment on conference rankings.

TT, I can easily refute a lot of what your saying, but I choose not to go back and forth with you.
In the end, it is of my opinion, TNSU, they should not move.

[TexasTerror]

In the end, it is of my opinion, TNSU, they should not move.

Well - that is something we both agree on!

[JSU02]

Dear Tennessee State,

Please leave the OVC. You don't fully compete in football. You don't compete in baseball or soccer. That is all.

I kinda agree. It would align TSU with more like minded schools as far as football is concerned. They could play as many classic games as they would want. Perhaps enough to off set the increased travel costs in other sports?

On another note, this move by the SWAC makes me wonder if the SWAC is possibly concerned about one of its current schools dropping sports or even dropping down a division. I guess the SWAC doesn't care about TSU's warning from SACS?

http://www.wate.com/Global/story.asp?S=13634088

[SDSUJacks]

TNST is in a good position right now as it is. Sure the OVC isn't a powerhouse conference, but it offers great geographic advantages as others have said, and TNST already has a couple of high attendance classics in their OOC schedule. I can't see any reason why they would leave.

[Redhawk2010]

Win a championship and all of a sudden yall are the hot stuff now, huh?

There are 9 teams that compete in football in the OVC. Tennessee State only plays 7 conference games in a given year while 7 teams play the full schedule. The last school obviously is only able to play 7 conference games as well in a given year, but that's because they can't have TSU on the schedule. I believe I read earlier this season that Jacksonville State hosted TSU for the first time this year since 2006 or so.

Either play the conference schedule or don't.

[WileECoyote06]

There are 9 teams that compete in football in the OVC. Tennessee State only plays 7 conference games in a given year while 7 teams play the full schedule. The last school obviously is only able to play 7 conference games as well in a given year, but that's because they can't have TSU on the schedule. I believe I read earlier this season that Jacksonville State hosted TSU for the first time this year since 2006 or so.

Either play the conference schedule or don't.

Blame your conference office for agreeing to those terms.

[TexasTerror]

Post without a source on TSPNSports.com (http://www.tspnsports.com/forums/showthread.php?94650-Word-is-TNSU-is-about-to-be-kicked-out) claiming that Tennessee State is set to get kicked out of the OVC...

Not sure why a school would get kicked out of a league unless they were not following league rules or were in a state of disarray (see Chicago State a few years back).

[bluedog]

Conferences do not tend to make invites, unless they are assured that the school (or schools) receiving the invites are very likely to accept. This holds true for most of the conference moves we've seen outside of the WAC, who has publicly invited numerous schools, who have in turn rejected Karl Benson... namely North Texas.

I do not know why Tennessee State would benefit from this...

The SWAC's revenues from the NCAA are low and the travel/missed class time would be much greater in the SWAC than the OVC, correct? The only question is whether playing the SWAC schools annually would provide enough increase in revenues for football that it would cover all those concerns?

Source: Form 990, filed with the Internal Revenue Service.

Updated: (1/15/2010): The Colonial Athletic Association filed a separate Form 990 with the IRS under the name of “Colonial Athletic Association Football Inc.” The report lists gross revenues totaling $901,515.

Rank Conference 2008 Revenues
1. Mid-Eastern Athletic Conference $5,929,689.00
2. Colonial Athletic Association $ 5,323,989.00
3. Southwestern Athletic Conference $4,859,155.00
4. Southern Conference $4,589,318.00
5. Southland Conference $3,642,511.00
6. Big South Conference $3,260,046.00
7. Big Sky Conference $3,255,085.00
8. Patriot League $2,861,333.00
9. Northeast Conference $ 2,040,563.00
10. Colonial Athletic Association Football, Inc. $ 901,515.00
11. Ohio Valley Conference $ 474,485.00
12 Gateway Football Conference $ 393,347.00
13. Great West Conference $ 38,913.00
Pioneer Football League No report found
Ivy League No report found

Read (http://www.tspnsports.com/2010/01/14/meac-swac-rank-among-top-3-in-fcs-conference-revenues.htm)

[JSU02]

If they are getting kicked out it may have something to do with the article i posted about potentially losing SACS accreditation.

The only years JSU did not play TnSU were 2007 and 2009, although it seems like more than that.

JSU was not made aware of the TnSU situation until after joining the conference, perhaps there were not enough OVC teams to make it an issue until after JSU and Samford joined in 2003?

[mikebigg]

Source: Form 990, filed with the Internal Revenue Service.

Updated: (1/15/2010): The Colonial Athletic Association filed a separate Form 990 with the IRS under the name of “Colonial Athletic Association Football Inc.” The report lists gross revenues totaling $901,515.

Rank Conference 2008 Revenues
1. Mid-Eastern Athletic Conference $5,929,689.00
2. Colonial Athletic Association $ 5,323,989.00
3. Southwestern Athletic Conference $4,859,155.00
4. Southern Conference $4,589,318.00
5. Southland Conference $3,642,511.00
6. Big South Conference $3,260,046.00
7. Big Sky Conference $3,255,085.00
8. Patriot League $2,861,333.00
9. Northeast Conference $ 2,040,563.00
10. Colonial Athletic Association Football, Inc. $ 901,515.00
11. Ohio Valley Conference $ 474,485.00
12 Gateway Football Conference $ 393,347.00
13. Great West Conference $ 38,913.00
Pioneer Football League No report found
Ivy League No report found

Read (http://www.tspnsports.com/2010/01/14/meac-swac-rank-among-top-3-in-fcs-conference-revenues.htm)

Thanks for providing FACT to counter opinion!

[TexasTerror]

Source: Form 990, filed with the Internal Revenue Service.

Updated: (1/15/2010): The Colonial Athletic Association filed a separate Form 990 with the IRS under the name of “Colonial Athletic Association Football Inc.” The report lists gross revenues totaling $901,515.

Those revenues are directed towards the conference and not towards the school(s) in the league. If you can share the SWAC's revenue disbursement model and I doubt you can, since the SWAC can not even keep their record books straight, than we'll have something to discuss...

Now can any SWAC fan justify some of the remarks regarding TNSU being booted from the OVC? Or was that typical hearsay from the people that sit around at the Cador Camp?

[bluedog]

Those revenues are directed towards the conference and not towards the school(s) in the league. If you can share the SWAC's revenue disbursement model and I doubt you can, since the SWAC can not even keep their record books straight, than we'll have something to discuss...Now can any SWAC fan justify some of the remarks regarding TNSU being booted from the OVC? Or was that typical hearsay from the people that sit around at the Cador Camp?

And what proof do you have to back that statment up?

[TexasTerror]

And what proof do you have to back that statment up?

If you go to the USA Today financial records - the money that each conference picks up does not properly equate to the amount of NCAA/conference revenues. There are schools who get nearly 100% (if not more0 of what the conference revenues listed above listed amongst their NCAA/conference revenue distribution...

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/ncaa-finances.htm

[bluedog]

If you go to the USA Today financial records - the money that each conference picks up does not properly equate to the amount of NCAA/conference revenues. There are schools who get nearly 100% (if not more0 of what the conference revenues listed above listed amongst their NCAA/conference revenue distribution...

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/ncaa-finances.htm

First you accuse the SWAC of not keeping proper records, now you're accusing the entire NCAA conference.

Why didn't you simply post a partial copy of this fantasy list of conf. revenue in stead of a bunch of links design to send someone on a wild goose chase or more accurately, have them just not make the effort and you get a pass on another one of your distorted truths?

I feel so sorry for you dude, really I do.

It must really be hard for you to deal with whatever you're dealing with.

[Big Al]

Source: Form 990, filed with the Internal Revenue Service.

Updated: (1/15/2010): The Colonial Athletic Association filed a separate Form 990 with the IRS under the name of “Colonial Athletic Association Football Inc.” The report lists gross revenues totaling $901,515.

Rank Conference 2008 Revenues
1. Mid-Eastern Athletic Conference $5,929,689.00
2. Colonial Athletic Association $ 5,323,989.00
3. Southwestern Athletic Conference $4,859,155.00
4. Southern Conference $4,589,318.00
5. Southland Conference $3,642,511.00
6. Big South Conference $3,260,046.00
7. Big Sky Conference $3,255,085.00
8. Patriot League $2,861,333.00
9. Northeast Conference $ 2,040,563.00
10. Colonial Athletic Association Football, Inc. $ 901,515.00
11. Ohio Valley Conference $ 474,485.00
12 Gateway Football Conference $ 393,347.00
13. Great West Conference $ 38,913.00
Pioneer Football League No report found
Ivy League No report found

Read (http://www.tspnsports.com/2010/01/14/meac-swac-rank-among-top-3-in-fcs-conference-revenues.htm)

This begs the question, however: why aren't the SWAC & MEAC more competitive in intra-conference games? Why do their sports programs in general put out such underperforming products? It's clear the conferences are reasonably good at monetizing their programs but it doesn't seem to translate to competitive athletics.

[WileECoyote06]

This begs the question, however: why aren't the SWAC & MEAC more competitive in intra-conference games? Why do their sports programs in general put out such underperforming products? It's clear the conferences are reasonably good at monetizing their programs but it doesn't seem to translate to competitive athletics.
A multi-million dollar question, with dozens of probable factors. One factor is lack of consistent alumni donations and corporate sponsorships. Of course, that would be on a school-to-school basis, with little influence from the conference office. Another factor is emphasis on lowered tuition at most HBCUs which affects the amount of cash available for athletic programs. Another factor lack of capital for facility improvements. Just because our conference offices have good revenues doesn't mean that the schools maximize their revenue possibilities too.

But let's put things in perspective. The Central Intercollegiate Athletic Association, a Division II HBCU conference made 6M+ in 2008 (last year I have available).

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

A multi-million dollar question, with dozens of probable factors. One factor is lack of consistent alumni donations and corporate sponsorships. Of course, that would be on a school-to-school basis, with little influence from the conference office. Another factor is emphasis on lowered tuition at most HBCUs which affects the amount of cash available for athletic programs. Another factor lack of capital for facility improvements. Just because our conference offices have good revenues doesn't mean that the schools maximize their revenue possibilities too.

But let's put things in perspective. The Central Intercollegiate Athletic Association, a Division II HBCU conference made 6M+ in 2008 (last year I have available).

But don't the SWAC and MEAC have more players drafted into the NFL than any othe FCS conference? What difference to lesser facilities and budgets make when you bring in good talent anyways?

[BlueHenSinfonian]

But don't the SWAC and MEAC have more players drafted into the NFL than any othe FCS conference? What difference to lesser facilities and budgets make when you bring in good talent anyways?

I've heard that statistic thrown around before, but does anyone know what kind of timeframe it's based on? The SWAC/MEAC had some glory years, but they are now long since past. These days the NFL talent from the FCS seems to be coming from the CAA and SoCon.

Also, if the SWAC/MEAC still draw NFL level talent - why can't they capitalize on it and win FBS, OOC FCS, or playoff games? All of the talent in the world doesn't mean much when your team can't make it past the first round of the playoffs, or in the case of a lot of SWAC teams, still regularly lose to Div II teams.

[WileECoyote06]

I've heard that statistic thrown around before, but does anyone know what kind of timeframe it's based on? The SWAC/MEAC had some glory years, but they are now long since past. These days the NFL talent from the FCS seems to be coming from the CAA and SoCon.

Also, if the SWAC/MEAC still draw NFL level talent - why can't they capitalize on it and win FBS, OOC FCS, or playoff games? All of the talent in the world doesn't mean much when your team can't make it past the first round of the playoffs, or in the case of a lot of SWAC teams, still regularly lose to Div II teams.

Examine which positions are being drafted. The main difference I notice between MEAC/SWAC football teams and others is on the Offensive and Defensive line. We've been fortunate enough to get good skill players.

But if you can't control the line, you can't win. Period.

[TexasTerror]

This begs the question, however: why aren't the SWAC & MEAC more competitive in intra-conference games? Why do their sports programs in general put out such underperforming products? It's clear the conferences are reasonably good at monetizing their programs but it doesn't seem to translate to competitive athletics.

The schools do not place the $$$ back into the athletic program is the typical response I've gotten. Most of these schools, particularly in the SWAC, do not properly fund their programs as far as scholarships and coaches (outside of football and perhaps basketball) to be able to compete with the PWCs.

[bluedog]

The schools do not place the $$$ back into the athletic program is the typical response I've gotten. Most of these schools, particularly in the SWAC, do not properly fund their programs as far as scholarships and coaches (outside of football and perhaps basketball) to be able to compete with the PWCs.

The old divide and conquer routine, well one out of two ain't bad.

[DSUrocks07]

Coaching holds us back, its been said for years and I still don't see it changing any time soon.

[TexasTerror]

Update... Tennessee State has the ball in their court...


SWAC Commissioner Duer Sharp confirmed Monday that the league has extended an invitation to Tennessee State, though he was quick to add that the conference doesn’t have a timetable for Tennessee State’s acceptance or denial.

“I think the ball is in their court. I think they’re in a little bit of a transition period right now with their administration,” Sharp said. “But as far as their invitation and whether they accept it, we’ve left that up to Tennessee State.”

The Nashville, Tenn.-based school is part of the Ohio Valley Conference but has natural ties to the SWAC, with longstanding rivalries against many of its members.

http://www.2theadvocate.com/sports/southern/Wide-range-of-topics-on-agenda-for-SWAC-meetings.html