Editorial: MEAC Considers Break from Inclusion

[TexasTerror]

Another article on the MEAC's plans to go from playing for a I-AA national championship to a "championship game" representative of a "couple dozen" schools, that is exclusive in it's own rights (Div II Tuskegee among others who could probably lay argument to being HBCU Natl Champs).

This is just part of an editorial/article about it that appeared in the Hampton Roads Daily Press by Dave Fairbank.
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Recruit: Will I get to play for a championship?

Coach: You'll get to play for a conference championship and a Heritage Bowl title.

Recruit: What about the national championship?

Coach: You'll get to play for the Black College National Championship.

Recruit: How many black colleges are there?

Coach: Lots, but only a couple dozen playing Division I football.

Recruit: Why doesn't your school play for the regular national championship?

Coach: Because our commissioners and school administrators decided they could make some money by splintering off and doing it another way.

Recruit: Didn't our parents and grandparents march and struggle and sacrifice to be included, not excluded?

Coach: Look, kid, do you want the scholarship or not?

http://www.dailypress.com/sports/columnists/dp-73563cm0feb18,0,2300677.column?coll=dp-sports-columnists

[TxSt02]

so true!!!

[*****]

... "Recruit: Didn't our parents and grandparents march and struggle and sacrifice to be included, not excluded?

Coach: Look, kid, do you want the scholarship or not?" ...xlolx

Also, Hampton is 0-4 in the playoffs not 0-3 as it says in the article...

[Mr. Tiger]

I think some people often get the idea of what the civil rights movement was about all wrong. The fight was for equal rights under the law. That means if a black person wants to walk into an public place without being thrown out because of his or her race, he or she deserves that right under the letter of the law. But does that mean once that person wins the fight for his rights he MUST walk into that public place? NO. He is simply now afforded that right which he so rightly deserves. That's how I feel about this issue. The SWAC and MEAC have the right to walk into the playoffs, a right both have fought for and won. But that doesn't mean they MUST do it. Now if you ask me, Mr. Tiger are you in favor of the SWAC and MEAC being a part of the playoffs? I would say I am in favor of the playoffs, but I am also in favor of both conferences doing what they feel is best because they have that right, even if I disagree with their decision.

[Catmendue2]

I think some people often get the idea of what the civil rights movement was about all wrong. The fight was for equal rights under the law. That means if a black person wants to walk into an public place without being thrown out because of his or her race, he or she deserves that right under the letter of the law. But does that mean once that person wins the fight for his rights he MUST walk into that public place? NO. He is simply now afforded that right which he so rightly deserves. That's how I feel about this issue. The SWAC and MEAC have the right to walk into the playoffs, a right both have fought for and won. But that doesn't mean they MUST do it. Now if you ask me, Mr. Tiger are you in favor of the SWAC and MEAC being a part of the playoffs? I would say I am in favor of the playoffs, but I am also in favor of both conferences doing what they feel is best because they have that right, even if I disagree with their decision.


In other words trophies don't pay for scholarships and 16 teams in a playoffs don't pay the bills for 100 other teams sitting home after the selection committee makes it decisions.

[*****]

In other words trophies don't pay for scholarships and 16 teams in a playoffs don't pay the bills for 100 other teams sitting home after the selection committee makes it decisions.What and whom does the alternative pay? What is the reward?

[TexasTerror]

In other words trophies don't pay for scholarships and 16 teams in a playoffs don't pay the bills for 100 other teams sitting home after the selection committee makes it decisions.

How many HBCUs will sit home yearly? If there is a Heritage Bowl, I think the same schools will benefit year in and year out as well. In HBCU football, there is a larger lack of parity than there is in I-AA football. The same folks will benefit and the others will sit around waiting for the next Classic for which they are involved in to take place...

Okay, maybe just in the SWAC. Since 1999, the SWAC West has produced Grambling and Southern as champs and the SWAC East since 2000 has been either Alabama A&M or Alabama St. Throw in 1999, you get Jackson St, but where's the parity?

FYI, the last seven I-AA champions have been seven different schools. There is parity there, a greater chance for someone new to come out and win. With HBCU football (namely the SWAC once more), there's an obvious difference between the "head of the class" and the bottom. Some schools want the rules changed for the benefits of themselves, not the rest of the league.

Grambling would make loads more if there were a 12th game. Could you say the same thing for Arkansas-Pine Bluff or Prairie View A&M? Of course NOT...

[jmuroller]

I guess our coach was right when he said JMU would have won the MEAC last year easily. This just shows that the HBCU's have finally given up and realized they can't do any damage in the postseason.

[Tribe4SF]

I guess our coach was right when he said JMU would have won the MEAC last year easily. This just shows that the HBCU's have finally given up and realized they can't do any damage in the postseason.

The MEAC Commissioner seems to have reached that conclusion.

[*****]

I guess our coach was right when he said JMU would have won the MEAC last year easily...:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

Huh?

How did you come to that conclusion (not to mention how your coach came to it previously)?

[Hansel]

:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

Huh?

How did you come to that conclusion (not to mention how your coach came to it previously)?
Because the A-10 plays NFL quality football compared to the rest of I-AA :rolleyes: (according to the Mick)

[GannonFan]

Because the A-10 plays NFL quality football compared to the rest of I-AA :rolleyes: (according to the Mick)

Gee, I miss Mickey's quotes - any chance we can get a microphone in front of him soon to see what else he'll say? He hasn't really spoken in a couple of months now so I'm sure some doozies are jut waiting to come out! ;)

[jmuroller]

:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

Huh?

How did you come to that conclusion (not to mention how your coach came to it previously)?

Very easy Ralph. They (HBCU's) realize they will never do anything in the playoffs, so they make a mythical Nat'l Champ game. Hey, I don't blame them. Just tired of them asking for respect before they actually earn it on the field.

[jmuroller]

Because the A-10 plays NFL quality football compared to the rest of I-AA :rolleyes: (according to the Mick)


Why don't we over-exagerate a little more.

[3rd Coast Tiger]

Very easy Ralph. They (HBCU's) realize they will never do anything in the playoffs, so they make a mythical Nat'l Champ game. Hey, I don't blame them. Just tired of them asking for respect before they actually earn it on the field.

Understand this... Know history before you spout out about the mouth:

The Black National Championship crown was around 50+ years before the "coveted" NCAA Division I-AA National Championship even existed.

[Mr. Tiger]

Very easy Ralph. They (HBCU's) realize they will never do anything in the playoffs, so they make a mythical Nat'l Champ game. Hey, I don't blame them. Just tired of them asking for respect before they actually earn it on the field.

The Black College National Championship is the oldest recognized lower division championship. It has been recognized since 1920. So it is NO MYTH! Florida A&M won the first Division I-AA championship and has won playoff games since that championship and was very competitive until the botched move to D I-A. Other MEAC schools have also won playoff games so I guess NONE are worthy of respect because of Hampton's loss last year. :eyebrow: If your argument is why settle for being Black College National Champions? Then why should Division I-AA schools that COULD move up to Division I-A, settle for their pursuit of the NCAA Division I-AA National Championship, which is not the highest level of championship available? The answer is because the I-AA National Championship is important to the schools and their fans and the same could be said for the Black College National Championship for some schools and their fans.

[3rd Coast Tiger]

jmuroller, will you please rank these championships in the order of who is the eldest:

NCAA Division I-AA National Champions (1978-20XX)
NCAA Division II National Champions (1973-20XX)
NCAA Division III National Champions (1973-20XX)
NAIA National Champions (1956-1969, 1997-20XX)
Black College National Champions (1920-20XX)
NCCAA National Champions (1997-20XX)

Once you do so, tell me how HBCU's thought of the "brilliant" idea as you say:


They (HBCU's) realize they will never do anything in the playoffs, so they make a mythical Nat'l Champ game. Hey, I don't blame them. Just tired of them asking for respect before they actually earn it on the field.

[3rd Coast Tiger]

Furthermore Ralph (and any other moderator or administrator for that matter), why do you allow debates such as this to fester day after day after day?

[SU Jag]

Very easy Ralph. They (HBCU's) realize they will never do anything in the playoffs, so they make a mythical Nat'l Champ game. Hey, I don't blame them. Just tired of them asking for respect before they actually earn it on the field.


Ignorance!:nono:

[griz&beer]

I think UM should break off and play for the Irish National Championship. Anyone want to join us.

[jmuroller]

You can have your black Nat'l Championship and we'll keep our 1AA Nat'l Champ ring.

[SU Jag]

I think UM should break off and play for the Irish National Championship. Anyone want to join us.

:nonono2:

[Mr. Tiger]

I think UM should break off and play for the Irish National Championship. Anyone want to join us.

Doubt if you would win that one. Notre Dame would kill Montana :lmao:

[SU Jag]

You can have your black Nat'l Championship and we'll keep our 1AA Nat'l Champ ring.


We dont need anyone telling us what "we" need! What "we" have has been going on longer than anything else! Remember "we" dont need any permission from "you" or anyone else!xcoffeex

[JohnStOnge]

Does anybody have hard financial numbers for the SWAC championship game over the years?

The Heritage Bowl has already been tried and it failed. Course I guess there might be hope that it'd do better if there was a guarantee that the MEAC champion would participate. When it was tried before, the MEAC champion went to the playoffs.

The overwhelming majority of NCAA championships are losing propositions from a direct financial standpoint.

The problem I have with the "Black national championship" historically is it hasn't been a real championship. It's been a poll. I guess that'd change some, though, with what they're talking about and it'd be kind of like a 2 team playoff.

[*****]

...why should Division I-AA schools that COULD move up to Division I-A, settle for their pursuit of the NCAA Division I-AA National Championship, which is not the highest level of championship available?...Clarification... I-AA is the highest level of NCAA championship football. BCS, BCF, etc. are not NCAA championships.

[griz&beer]

Clarification... I-AA is the highest level of NCAA championship football. BCS, BCF, etc. are not NCAA championships.

Damn Right.

[3rd Coast Tiger]

I think UM should break off and play for the Irish National Championship. Anyone want to join us.

If you get the petition started, I'll sign it to help your cause.

[Mr. Tiger]

Damn Right.

Everyone knows what I meant when I said the highest level. But yes. I-AA is the highest level of NCAA championship football.

[*****]

The Black College National Championship is the oldest recognized lower division championship. It has been recognized since 1920. So it is NO MYTH! ... the I-AA National Championship is important to the schools and their fans and the same could be said for the Black College National Championship for some schools and their fans.I think what he meant is that it has been based on a poll and even D-II teams win it. The BCS champ game is what the Heritage Bowl could become but using only two conferences. There's no guarantee that either team would win the BCF crown.

[SU Jag]

I think what he meant is that it has been based on a poll and even D-II teams win it. The BCS champ game is what the Heritage Bowl could become but using only two conferences. There's no guarantee that either team would win the BCF crown.

Correct! :nod:

[*****]

Correct! :nod:But the difference is that the BCS champ game is decided by a system and played to crown their champ... the BCF is decided by a poll with no game... the Heritage Bowl would be just a post-season event. There are so many barriers to leap on the idea of a Heritage Bowl that would pit the winners of the MEAC and SWAC champ games that it will be years before that comes to fruition. Both conferences would have to get to 12 members, hold their conf champ game in the regular season and the champs officially forego the playoffs. Before that happens the SWAC could just drop their champ game and the MEAC and SWAC champ could meet in the Heritage Bowl. Do you think the SWAC would drop their champ game and the MEAC would drop the playoff AQ to do that?

[henfan]

How long before the NEC sues for inclusion into the Black College National Championship Bowl Game?

I've noticed that inclusion/exclusion has been a popular theme on this thread and this board lately. Certainly, those who profess to believe in equal access for all wouldn't take issue with sharing whatever revenues are to be derived from a BCNC FB Championship.

[Catmendue2]

Before that happens the SWAC could just drop their champ game and the MEAC and SWAC champ could meet in the Heritage Bowl. Do you think the SWAC would drop their champ game and the MEAC would drop the playoff AQ to do that?


Yes I do, and its going to happen sooner than you think.

[*****]

Yes I do, and its going to happen sooner than you think.Do you think the D-II HBCUs might also follow suit?

[Catmendue2]

Do you think the D-II HBCUs might also follow suit?



D-II already has a Bowl game, SIAC and CIAA have played for many years.

[3rd Coast Tiger]

D-II already has a Bowl game, SIAC and CIAA have played for many years.

The Pioneer Bowl:

http://pioneerbowl.com/

[3rd Coast Tiger]

How long before the NEC sues for inclusion into the Black College National Championship Bowl Game?


Please provide the NEC all the applicable information needed so they can sue. More power to them.

[*****]

D-II already has a Bowl game, SIAC and CIAA have played for many years.Yeah but their champs go to the playoffs, not the same thing as this we're discussing.

[SUjagTILLiDIE]

Yeah but their champs go to the playoffs, not the same thing as this we're discussing.
No they don't.

[*****]

No they don't.This year they did.

[SU Jag]

This year they did.

True! It all depends on who wins the SIAC.If Tuskegee wins it, they dont compete in the d-2 playoffs so the 2nd place team represents the SIAC in the playoffs and the Tuskegee goes to the Pioneer Bowl. But if someone like Albany State or someone else wins they will go to the playoffs and the Pioneer Bowl will get the 2nd place team if they dont get an at-large bid.

[Go...gate]

If the HBCU's want their own championship gig, fine. Consideration will then have to be given by the remaining 1-AA schools, through the NCAA, to inviting the NEC champion to the play-offs, encouraging Duquesne to join the PFL and also awarding it a play-off bid. That makes up for the lost MEAC schools and this controversy is history.

[SU Jag]

How long before the NEC sues for inclusion into the Black College National Championship Bowl Game?

I've noticed that inclusion/exclusion has been a popular theme on this thread and this board lately. Certainly, those who profess to believe in equal access for all wouldn't take issue with sharing whatever revenues are to be derived from a BCNC FB Championship.

Are you serious? I hope that this is a joke. There are no HBCUs in the NEC, NONE, not one! So how in the hell could you be included in a HBCU Bowl game?:nono:

[aceinthehole]

How long before the NEC sues for inclusion into the Black College National Championship Bowl Game?

I've noticed that inclusion/exclusion has been a popular theme on this thread and this board lately. Certainly, those who profess to believe in equal access for all wouldn't take issue with sharing whatever revenues are to be derived from a BCNC FB Championship.

Henfan, a poor attempt at sarcasm?

The NEC issue with the NCAA is simple - the NCAA has denied the NEC an AQ without explicitly stating what criteria the NEC what must meet for inclusion. The NEC has met NCAA qualifications to be a recognized football conference, so what else is required?

The entire HBCU situation is that some conferences/schools CHOOSE to not participate in the I-AA playoffs for fiscal or historical reasons. I'm fairly certain that if they wanted an AQ the NCAA wouldn’t deny it. Bottom line, we all know HBCU classics and bowl games have NOTHING to do with NEC schools.

:)

[henfan]

Ace, please don't take my wiseguy comment so seriously. On most issues, I'm with ya, pal. You're a clear thinker.

Only half joking about I-AA teams wanting into a bowl system though, especially if the new Heritage Bowl proves to be the fiscal success that the first one wasn't. Certainly not the direction I'd like to see I-AA go, but I don't pay the bills.

[arranger101]

The MEAC Commissioner seems to have reached that conclusion.

Yes the commissioner, not the rest of us. He is so damn greedy and VERY STUPID that he can't help to think about himself. It's cop-out to me. I can't stand him in his position, and furthermore, I couldn't when he used to be at S.C. State!

[HIU 93]

WOW!!!!! The Daily Press printed an EDITORIAL (definition- opinion paper by an editor of the newspaper) and Texas Terror and others of his ilk have the MEAC on the first thing smoking out of the playoffs. Let's get one thing perfectly clear- as I have stated before- THE MEAC IS NOT LEAVING THE PLAYOFFS. DR. DENNIS THOMAS IS TALKING OUT THE SIDE OF HIS NECK. TT, you REALLY need to pull up. You are going to give yourself an ulcer or heart attack stressing over what us po', ig'nant, Black folk are doing!xlolx

[GannonFan]

Not that I have any stake in this argument, but you gotta give TT some credit - he does post a lot of actual information about the SWAC that wouldn't get mentioned here normally, and a lot of it has been real informative. Jumping on a guy just because he posts about HBCU's and may have different opinions than yours isn't terribly constructive. Point out when he's wrong (or drifting off into personal opinion), but leave the smack for the smack board. I for one actually want to hear about the SWAC from time to time so let's not kill the messenger.

[gram4life]

Not that I have any stake in this argument, but you gotta give TT some credit - he does post a lot of actual information about the SWAC that wouldn't get mentioned here normally, and a lot of it has been real informative. Jumping on a guy just because he posts about HBCU's and may have different opinions than yours isn't terribly constructive. Point out when he's wrong (or drifting off into personal opinion), but leave the smack for the smack board. I for one actually want to hear about the SWAC from time to time so let's not kill the messenger.

Maybe you should 1st advise him to leave the smack off his posts. But to you it's just his personal opinion or wrong info. I got it, OK.

[3rd Coast Tiger]

Not that I have any stake in this argument, but you gotta give TT some credit - he does post a lot of actual information about the SWAC that wouldn't get mentioned here normally, and a lot of it has been real informative.

GannonFan, a great majority of the articles he post have already been posted on the SWACPage or MEACFans (not saying that he just cuts and paste :rolleyes: ) that we all have talked about or are currently engaging in comments on the matter so what he posts here is nothing we haven't read on our primary boards.

So in essence, these articles may be real informative for AGS posters but not us.

[*****]

...a great majority of the articles he post have already been posted on the SWACPage or MEACFans...That's fine but they haven't been posted here on the national board for discussion amongst a larger and more diverse audience. For instance there are 372 people on this board now, 74 on TSPN and 43 on MEACfans.

[GannonFan]

GannonFan, a great majority of the articles he post have already been posted on the SWACPage or MEACFans (not saying that he just cuts and paste :rolleyes: ) that we all have talked about or are currently engaging in comments on the matter so what he posts here is nothing we haven't read on our primary boards.

So in essence, these articles may be real informative for AGS posters but not us.

No sweat, and like I said, I have no stake in this - TT may have doomed himself to a bad rep based on the smack or other behavior - however poor the motives, it does get information over to this board. I'd like to think I could check every board out there, but I struggle to keep up with the 3 I'm on now. For that reason, it's good to get some info on conferences I wouldn't hear a lot about otherwise (PA is not really a hotbed of SWAC or MEAC information). Like Ralph said, this board gets a little of a national feel to it (see all the Big Sky and Great West posters for instance) so it's good to hear a little about the MEAC and SWAC here as well.

[TexasTerror]

I post SWAC stuff because geographically, I'm in their region and they share many newspapers with the SLC things I read (namely the Monroe newspaper which has SLC coverage of ULM and really great Grambling coverage).

Some of the stuff I pick up off of SWAC Page, others I pick up from other sites. Just depends. I love taking in as much information as possible whether it from a Div I-A fan board, various newspapers or what not and that's what I'll do...

The SWAC folks on here have clamoured about no respect. Well guess what? I'm posting your stuff just as much, if not a little less than all the SLC stuff I come across. The word is getting out about the SWAC and our I-AA faithful here will respect you more if they know more about you...

[*****]

But not everything is about the SWAC, this thread for instance.