On the Clock: Villanova

[aceinthehole]

Texas Christian (MWC) ---> Big East as a full member
UMass (CAA football) ---> Mid-American for football

Villanova (CAA football) ---> ?

The 'Cats decision will certainly send a ripple throughout the East Coast, so what are the next moves?

If 'Nova accepts the Big East football invite:
Big East will have 17 members and 10 schools play football.

- Who are the next 2 candidates for BE football?
- Who would the 7 non-football members add if the conference splits?

If 'Nova declines the Big East football invite:
Big East will have 17 members and 9 schools play football.

- Who would the BE add for football?
- Who would the 8 non-football members add if the conference splits?

Potential trickel-down effects:
C-USA ---> UCF, Houston, Memphis, ECU
A-10 ---> Xavier, Dayton, Duquesne, St. Louis

[gasoutherneagle]

[Jaws theme starts playing] Through the fog a bronze bust of Erk Russell appears overlooking the field at Paulson... with six title flags furling in the distance.

Heh, heh... naw just kiddin' the UGA lovin' Atlanta alums would have to start writing their alma mater checks for that to be a possibility.

...but you got scared there for a second didn't you?xlolx

[VUCats02]

Let's only worry about FCS playoffs for Nova for the short-term and worry about the Big East when the playoffs are over. No more distractions!!! :-P

[Reign of Terrier]

Temple is a viable candidate for the Philly market if Nova rejects

[tribe_pride]

Temple is a viable candidate for the Philly market if Nova rejects

The Big East kicked Temple out 5-6 years ago. I can't imagine that the 2 would work together now.

[Reign of Terrier]

The Big East kicked Temple out 5-6 years ago. I can't imagine that the 2 would work together now.

I don't know, basically I'm reposting what I have already heard

[Appfan_in_CAAland]

- Who are the next 2 candidates for BE football? Houston, UCF
- Who would the 7 non-football members add if the conference splits? Xavier, Dayton

If 'Nova declines the Big East football invite:
Big East will have 17 members and 9 schools play football.

- Who would the BE add for football? Houston, UCF, Memphis
- Who would the 8 non-football members add if the conference splits? Xavier only



Easy one - answers in quote

Then App State and JMU to the CUSA

[DFW HOYA]

No XU or Dayton. No more non-FB schools left to add. ND, Villanova, Georgetown, and St. John's not going out the door, either.

If PC, Seton Hall, et al. think the "NIT League" will amount to anything more than late night games on ESPN3.com, they're in for a rude awakening.

[NovaWildcat]

how many times do we need to discuss this?

UCF is probably joining the BE regardless of Villanova's decision. An obvious candidate for many reasons. A very likely scenario if Villanova DECLINES is that football schools break off entirely and form their own conference. Temple, ECU, Houston would probably be the next likely candidates. The basketball schools would be forced to form their own conference. Xavier, Dayton and any other relevant, religiously-affiliated school could likely be a candidate. Of course, all of this is speculation and there is only one KNOWN variable in all of this: the ball is in Villanova's court.

[DFW HOYA]

how many times do we need to discuss this?

UCF is probably joining the BE regardless of Villanova's decision. An obvious candidate for many reasons. A very likely scenario if Villanova DECLINES is that football schools break off entirely and form their own conference. Temple, ECU, Houston would probably be the next likely candidates. The basketball schools would be forced to form their own conference. Xavier, Dayton and any other relevant, religiously-affiliated school could likely be a candidate. Of course, all of this is speculation and there is only one KNOWN variable in all of this: the ball is in Villanova's court.

Not if the BEN gets done. To maintain the New York, Washington, Philadelphia, and Chicago markets, the BE will need a 12/16 model that includes SJ and/or SH, Georgetown, Villanova, and ND and/or DePaul. Put another way, Paul Tagliabue would not be working on this to run Georgetown out of the Big East.

[Doc QB]

A book was written a few years back about VU football, following them for a season, Friday Night Lights style, and more than one chapter focused on why a move to the Big East was near impossible. Having actually read the book ("Season in Purgatory"), nothing has changed several years later, save an FCS championship. But even with that national title, the same, huge logistical problems remain, and I am unsure why they (VU admin) thinks now those same obstacles (crap fan support from Philly and students, stadium, parking, money, facilities, etc) are now easier to overcome. Just getting another invite doesn't solve those problems.

[ngineer]

'nova is nuts to go to the Big East for football. They will be "back to the future" ala the mid-1980's in no time. I smh over the grandiose dreams these academic bureaucrats have. Unless some ol' alum with oodles of millions has just bequeathed the University for football, I don't see where the money is coming from, nor the fans. They don't support the program, now, to level required at that level, despite recent success. Stadium 30 minutes away from campus. Temple has a much larger alumni base and they struggle for fan support. Unbelievable.

[NovaWildcat]

A book was written a few years back about VU football, following them for a season, Friday Night Lights style, and more than one chapter focused on why a move to the Big East was near impossible. Having actually read the book ("Season in Purgatory"), nothing has changed several years later, save an FCS championship. But even with that national title, the same, huge logistical problems remain, and I am unsure why they (VU admin) thinks now those same obstacles (crap fan support from Philly and students, stadium, parking, money, facilities, etc) are now easier to overcome. Just getting another invite doesn't solve those problems.

What are you talking about? The book stated very clearly how a feasibility study conducted (in 97 I believe?) was expected to come out favorably, however Fr. Dobbin, the president at the time, had no interest in hearing it.

The national title is irrelevant in this discussion. It only goes to show the competitiveness of the current team if it were to play in conference in the next few years. Not a major factor.

What the book did state was the potential road blocks from a move up. But those have been, and will be addressed. To state a move to the Big East was "near impossible" is downright incorrect. Even the biggest of Nova haters (cue Hens fans) would admit that.

[superman7515]

Trustees Face Decision On Joining Big East (http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/colleges/20101201_Trustees_face_decision_on_joining_Big_Eas t_.html?page=1&c=y)


Villanova's Faculty Congress voted earlier this month on whether to support the move. According to several professors, the vote was 29-0 against going to the Big East in football, with one abstention. At two faculty forums held earlier this month to discuss the issue, faculty members "were all speaking with one voice" against the move, according to a biology professor.

[NovaWildcat]

obviously the faculty would not support anything that feeds more money into athletics.

they have no say in the matter, anyway. NONE.

[danefan]

obviously the faculty would not support anything that feeds more money into athletics.

they have no say in the matter, anyway. NONE.

Agreed. I bet you couldn't find one single faculty senate that would by majority support any Division I football program in the country.

[henfan]

Not surprisingly, VU's faculty is decidedly against FB reclassification. But a 29-0 vote against FB reclassification? Not even a single vote in favor?! Wow!

It will be increasingly harder for VU's admin to justify staff salary and wage freezes if they turn around and vote to invest money they apparently don't have into FB.

[NovaWildcat]

Does Villanova have to justify staff salary and wage freezes in the first place?

And, this isn't very hard to justify. It's a pretty easy argument to make how Big East football for Villanova will translate into more applicants/more selectivity/stronger students.

[Dane96]

Agreed. They are a private institution. You don't like it, go get another job.

This isn't a State school that has to justify EVERYTHING!

[Doc QB]

What are you talking about? The book stated very clearly how a feasibility study conducted (in 97 I believe?) was expected to come out favorably, however Fr. Dobbin, the president at the time, had no interest in hearing it.

The national title is irrelevant in this discussion.

What the book did state was the potential road blocks from a move up. But those have been, and will be addressed.

A favorable feasibility study, I agree is important, and my guess would be re-addressing the same issues ingnored by a prior president and actually entertained by a new one would be helpful for generating some institutional support for moving up. But the 29-0 faculty vote or whatever, seems to argue otherwise.

However, I disagree that a national title is irrelevant. The FB team still gets no love after reaching the I-AA pinnacle of success. You guys don't put squat in the seats, and regardless of similar I-AA programs at similar school sizes having the same problem, it is not those programs that are adding seats, money, and facilities ala App St, JMU, hell, even Liberty. And those are programs are doing so without such an invite to join the big time. To me, such programs would seem much, much better suited to move up, football wise.

Lastly, the book stated the roadblocks. All of which have been discussed in depth here more recently. They are huge. Denying that is a little short sighted, no matter who much the casual 'Nova fan or the actual 'Nova FB supporter wants it. Sorry.

[VUCats02]

So just because something is written in a book means Nova will / should not make the jump?

I guess I should make sure to agree with everything I read for the rest of my life, as long as it's written in a book.

There's problems for every decision. You just have to weigh the pros and cons and pick the right decision based on your research. Don't give me this "roadblock" talk. They can be overcome if Nova wants to overcome them. Nova fans are used to seeing teams like Syracuse and Pitt from basketball, not Towson and Rhode Island. Hence, nobody goes to the games. I don't know how our attendance will look if we make the jump - but it will certainly be a lot better than it is now - the question is will it still be enough? Nobody will know the answer to this question until we actually make the move. This might be Nova's last chance to make the jump. If they end up finding in 10 years that they made the wrong decision, they can jump back down to the FCS level a lot easier than jumping up to the FBS level because we might not even get this opportunity again.

[VUCats02]

I won't be devastated if we don't decide to move up, however. I enjoy FCS football very much. I'm not as scared about our basketball program being split away from the big east as many other fans are. It would be very exciting if we did make the jump, but as a diehard fan, I will still enjoy CAA football.

[Doc QB]

I won't be devastated if we don't decide to move up, however. I enjoy FCS football very much. I'm not as scared about our basketball program being split away from the big east as many other fans are. It would be very exciting if we did make the jump, but as a diehard fan, I will still enjoy CAA football.

And I appreciate the diehard fans. Wish there was more of us in the seats who care so much. And, I think being a top tier FCS program is a very special thing, probably better in my mind than an also ran in a big time FBS conference at a fairly real cross roads with respect to its future.

[VUCats02]

Unfortunately, diehards make up about 2% of fan bases for any sport and any team. It's all about attracting the casual fan if you want good attendance numbers, and VU football definitely does not attract the casual fan. FCS football is still enjoyable for the diehards, but again, we are very insignificant to the total attendance.

[henfan]

Unfortunately, diehards make up about 2% of fan bases for any sport and any team. It's all about attracting the casual fan if you want good attendance numbers, and VU football definitely does not attract the casual fan. FCS football is still enjoyable for the diehards, but again, we are very insignificant to the total attendance.

Season tickets account for approximately 50% of UD's FB attendance but whatever. 2% is pretty close to 50%.

[Sec310]

The question should be how long will TCU stay in the Big East? I gotta believe the Big 12 will go back to 12 teams, or more, in the near future. Hello TCU and Houston?

[Catsfan2]

When Villanova won the basketball championship in 1985, it changed the school forever in many ways for the better -- better academically qualified students, a three fold increase in applications, a national reputation, and ultimately wealthier alumni. The FCS Championship did none of those things. If the administration believes that a move to FBS will heighten the school's overall profile they'll make the move, if not they won't.

[VUCats02]

Season tickets account for approximately 50% of UD's FB attendance but whatever. 2% is pretty close to 50%.

Your definition of a "diehard" fan is obviously different than mine. In my opinion, most season ticket holders are not diehards. You can still go to tons of games and still be considered a casual fan, but this is just my opinon. Last I checked 50% of UD's FB attendance do not go onto message boards to discuss games. I would say that'd be less than 2%.

[Old Cat Fan]

Can someone in real simple terms please explain to me why VU a one time D1A school years ago that abolished its football program only to bring it back later as a now FCS program that even though a very good one still does not bring in big attendance, is now looking to go back to a FBS and think everything will be different this time around. Am I missing some real simple points here? or does not that old Churchill Quote " those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it" mean anything anymore

[TheValleyRaider]

The question should be how long will TCU stay in the Big East? I gotta believe the Big 12 will go back to 12 teams, or more, in the near future. Hello TCU and Houston?

I'm not sure about the Big 12 going back to 12. Texas seems quite pleased with a 10-team conference, no title game, and their TV network. The rest of the league is really beholden to the Horns, with the exception of OU who doesn't really have better options right now, or A&M, who I suppose could jump to the SEC if they really wanted to

TCU has no interest tying their program and their university to Texas like they were in the SWC. Joining the Big East allows TCU to chart its own course, and so long as the Big East maintains its BCS bid (which I don't see changing), the move benefits easily benefits TCU

Of course within 10 years the entire system will probably re-shuffle anyway xlolx

[Sec310]

Nova has decided to move to the Big East?

http://www.sjsuspartans.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=5600&ATCLID=205056635

Listen closely, as this AD says three schools are moving up to FBS, including Nova. Go to 3:45 into this video.

[ASU_Fanatic]

I still don't see how Villanova would pull off going to the Big East, they average probably like 8,000 a game....maybe? The Big East is a BCS conference where 35,000 is usually probably the minimum they expect out of any of their teams. I mean even if 'Nova did build a bigger stadium they would maybe have like 10,000 per each game. Does the FBS want them THAT bad. IMO, no FCS team should make a jump to a BCS school, you should go to a lower conference an try to build yourself up then move to a BCS conference. I mean if they are terrible their first few years they may have a time ever getting them on the map,it's going to be hard to win top recruits over West Virginia, Pitt, and TCU.

[superman7515]

Pretty sure Villanova just sent a letter saying that they wouldn't make a decision until at least April.

[NovaWildcat]

Pretty sure Villanova just sent a letter saying that they wouldn't make a decision until at least April.

Correct. There is a board meeting scheduled and the DECISION is slated for then. A decision will not be made before then.

Very positive letter from the Pres. The prior notices had been very ambiguous and slightly negative. This one had a much more positive tone. And was more expansion in terms of the issues that really FAVOR a move up (national exposure, downside of not moving up, comparison to peer schools).

Many in the VU community believe that the time spent on this decision is a blessing in disguise --- many people have warmed up to the idea of Big East football through vocal alumni.

ASU_Fanatic-- senseless post. You're probably still feeling a little fuzzy from that A** kicking you received last weekend at THE ROCK.

[jmufan999]

facilities ala App St, JMU, hell, even Liberty.

Liberty has the nicest facilities out of those three schools.

[Blue Hen 53]

Can't imagine Nova will make the move, they are a basketball school. Their facilities are 2nd class and their fan base is small. Until the Nova administration dumps some dough into the program they will stay FCS.

[henfan]

Correct. There is a board meeting scheduled and the DECISION is slated for then. A decision will not be made before then.

Wonder if the Big East can afford to wait?

[Blue Hen 53]

Would love to see an all CAA final!

[TheValleyRaider]

Wonder if the Big East can afford to wait?

I would guess the Big East already has it's second choice lined up if Nova is a no-go, and I highly doubt the school in question (UCF?) would hesitate to accept if/when an offer is made Besides, if they make all their annoucements prior to July, plenty of time to set up the changes for 2012 xtwocentsx

Unless of course the Villanova board decides to postpone its decision to the future, like say, two years, just to pick a number, no reason at all. I mean, that'd be pretty dumb right? Right?

[NovaWildcat]

Wonder if the Big East can afford to wait?

Great post. That's the really the million dollar question here. Many (myself included) are worried that the BE is going to jump at another opportunity and/or become fed up with the long-process that Villanova has taken.

BE commish is on the record saying that he's OK with the time frame...although of course he's going to say that, doesn't want to throw VU under the bus--right away at least.

[DSUrocks07]

Crazy idea, probably already discussed:

VU: CAA Football; A-10 all other sports.

[NovaWildcat]

Crazy idea, probably already discussed:

VU: CAA Football; A-10 all other sports.

Great idea.

[henfan]

BE commish is on the record saying that he's OK with the time frame...although of course he's going to say that, doesn't want to throw VU under the bus--right away at least.

Didn't realize that. Thanks for the clarification.

I'd have to imagine that VU had this discussion with the BEC before going public with the April date.