UMass to FBS (MAC)?

[Sam Adams]

Its a futile exercise to try and defend the CAA scheduling "philosophy". UD had TWO CAA home games in October. Jimmy Mad played THREE CAA home games in October. Towson played THREE CAA HOME GAMES in October. Bill & Mary were given THREE BACK TO BACK CAA Home games in October. Richmond had THREE CAA HOME Games between 09/25 and 11/06.

In contrast UMASS was give ONE CAA home game between 09/05 and 11/05. In case you weren't sure - THATS EIGHT CONSECUTIVE WEEKS W/NO HOME CAA GAMES IN THE MIDDLE OF OUR SEASON. Please tell me what CAA South program had that type of a schedule. Thanks alot CAA ! xlolx

Its truly hilarious when you see scheduling disparities like that and then you have people walking around trashing the programs who aren't throwing money at this great investment where our own conference seems to go out of its way to set up a home schedule that is absolutely ridiculous from a fan and revenue perspective. The CAA gave us ONE HOME CAA GAMES FOR 99% of September and October. I would like to see what the UD or JMU fans would have to say if the CAA tried to pull that crap w/their programs.

[henfan]

All of the schools mentioned were or are CAA members who have decided that it no longer makes sense for them to continue to invest in being CAA members... Meanwhile the geniuses at the CAA continue to blame the individual schools for the fact that their conference is shrinking and losing media markets.

Wrong again. HU & NU continue to be CAA members, just not CAA FB League members. Their administrations decided not to fund FB any longer. If FB itself was a priority for them, they could have just as well de-emphasized the sport and moved to the NEC a la Rhody.

I've not heard of any CAA official "blame" individual schools for anything. Again, these are individual decisions that the CAA could not have prevented, even if they wanted to.


You are avoiding the central issue - Name the full scholly FCS programs that you think will exist in NY & NE in the next 3 seasons. What is the CAA's plan to maintain any presence at all in the NE / NY media market? The fact that you are unable to articulate any such programs or plan speaks volumes as to the situation that Massachusetts is in. The CAA has no plan. There will be no NY & NE teams playing full scholly FCS w/in 3 yrs.

I'm a FB fan, not a CAA administrator. I'm not privy to what the CAA or any FB programs have planned, nor am I a soothsayer who can make predictions like the ones you've made.

If I had to guess, I'd say that the chances are good that Stony Brook, Fordham and UNH will have full scholarship programs in the next 3 season and possibly UMaine might find a way to hold on for that long. Albany also hopes to fully fund FB at some point, though I don't know if that will be in the next 3 years. I also can't say if the PL will soon permit athletic grants for FB but, if they do, I'd imagine you could add Holy Cross to the list.


In 2009 the CAA North lost 2 teams. One would think that in response to that disaster, the CAA would have done Everything they cold have ... or at the very least - done SOMETHING to help the remaining CAA North teams such as UMASS in terms of scheduling 2010 home games. Instead the CAA braintrust deemed it wise to gave UMass 1 home game on labor day weekend and then UMass didn't receive another home CAA until NOVEMBER.

WTF are you even talking about?! The brunt of the conference schedule doesn't even begin until Oct. Conference games are only occasionally played in Sept.

UMass did NOT have to wait until Nov. for a home game; your boys played Richmond at home on 10/16. You had 3 dates in Oct. and 1 of them was a home game and the other was a so-called road game at Gillette Stadium. Oh, the hardship! xbawlingx (BTW, Richmond also had only 1 conference home game in Oct., so, no, this wasn't unique to UMass.)


The facts are that the CAA North is disappearing. Saying so isn't "trashing" the CAA. The facts are that the CAA schedule for UMass in 2010 was absurd. Saying so isn't "trashing" the CAA. I love CAA football and I wish it made sense for UMass to not change conferences.

Saying that the CAA North is disappearing is obvious. Suggesting that the conference has been negligent, that it doesn't care about its member schools or somehow screwed UMass is indeed trashing the conference. Too bad you can't see that.

[BlueHenSinfonian]

Its a futile exercise to try and defend the CAA scheduling "philosophy". UD had TWO CAA home games in October. Jimmy Mad played THREE CAA home games in October. Towson played THREE CAA HOME GAMES in October. Bill & Mary were given THREE BACK TO BACK CAA Home games in October. Richmond had THREE CAA HOME Games between 09/25 and 11/06.

In contrast UMASS was give ZERO CAA home games between 09/05 and 11/05. In case you weren't sure - THATS SEVEN CONSECUTIVE WEEKS W/NO HOME CAA GAMES IN THE MIDDLE OF OUR SEASON. Please tell me what CAA South program had that type of a schedule. Thanks alot CAA ! xlolx

UMass played Richmond at home on 10/16, that looks to me like a CAA home game.

The UNH game at Gillette could be considered almost a home game, it was closer to y'all than it was to UNH.

UMass had their bye week in October, so you just played one game less than other teams. As it stands, your October schedule doesn't look bad - two games in Mass, one in MD, one in VA, and one bye. I'm sure Delaware would have loved an earlier bye week, as it was we were stumbling into the W&M game while they came out fresh.

[tribe_pride]

Its a futile exercise to try and defend the CAA scheduling "philosophy". UD had TWO CAA home games in October. Jimmy Mad played THREE CAA home games in October. Towson played THREE CAA HOME GAMES in October. Bill & Mary were given THREE BACK TO BACK CAA Home games in October. Richmond had THREE CAA HOME Games between 09/25 and 11/06

In contrast UMASS was give ZERO CAA home games between 09/05 and 11/05. In case you weren't sure - THATS SEVEN CONSECUTIVE WEEKS W/NO HOME CAA GAMES IN THE MIDDLE OF OUR SEASON. Please tell me what CAA South program had that type of a schedule. Thanks alot CAA ! xlolx

You are wrong. UMass home games: 9/4, 10/16, 11/6, 11/13. UMass away games: 10/2, 10/23, 10/30, 11/20 (with OOC games on 9/11 home, 9/18 away and 9/25 away - so don't yell at the CAA on those and a bye on 10/9).

So for CAA games, you guys had home, away, home, away, away, home, home, away . And you didn't have to play Villanova. That sounds reasonable to me. UMass was away for URI and Towson and hosted 2 of the 3 CAA playoff teams it faced (and didn't face the 4th in Nova). Seems very fair to me.


W&M had to travel to New England 3 times this season for CAA games and missed Towson this year. Hosting 3 games in a row is nice (especially when 2 of them are against CAA teams) but we had our hits as well scheduling wise. The team did not complain but went and did what it had to do (even if they didn't win against UMass)

[henfan]

UMass played Richmond at home on 10/16, that looks to me like a CAA home game.

Don't let facts get in the way of a wild narrative, fellow Hen. Sammy's trying to invent excuses to make it seem like the CAA is somehow screwing UMass, even though UMass is founding and voting member of the conference.

[EmeryZach]

The more I sit back and think about this, the more I don't think it is going to happen. There is so much red tape for UMass to go through before any decision can be made that it will take too long and just will never happen.

It's just a lot of hype.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Don't let facts get in the way of a wild narrative, fellow Hen. Sammy's trying to invent excuses to make it seem like the CAA is somehow screwing UMass, even though UMass is founding and voting member of the conference.

This seems to be par for the course for Sammy. He's also been attempting to claim that UMass wants to go to the MAC to "play better football", when two of its members were upset by Big South teams and not a single MAC team in 2010 can say they upset a team that is in the Top 25. That team that was upset by a CAA team (Virginia Tech, by James Madison) has an excellent chance at playing in a BCS bowl. A CAA team that wasn't even good enough for the playoffs, mind.

[Gordon Shumway]

The UNH game at Gillette could be considered almost a home game, it was closer to y'all than it was to UNH.


I'm not sure that is entirely true. UNH is about .4 miles closer. Of course, it was our home game.xlolx

[umassfan]

The more I sit back and think about this, the more I don't think it is going to happen. There is so much red tape for UMass to go through before any decision can be made that it will take too long and just will never happen.

It's just a lot of hype.

You are wrong... I heard word today from people close to the university that all we are waiting on is a formal invite from the MAC. They will not do that till they come meet with UMass on campus in Mid Dec. You are always negitive regarding UMass and I dont know why. This is 99% done. They are even talking about stadium upgrades once they accept. They plan on taking down the wall on the other side of the scoreboard to add endzone seats and make it a horseshoe type stadium. Also they will build a new field building with new locker rooms and offices. They need to update that building mainly because it does not have enough lockers for the added players. Plus there are no true offices in that building. Other improvements are in the works as well. The university chancellor has stated he will find the money to make this move for UMass.

[Maroon&White]

But I don't get that impression. I think that UMass fans really are trying to maneuver themselves to be taken by their real target, the Big East - and who knows whenever that dream will happen, if ever.

Games against Buffalo will never be bigger than ones with UConn. That is the whole problem with this plan. Folks around UMass way will not come home to watch Buffalo in an expanded McGuirk stadium, Foxboro, or wherever it's played. It's either UConn, or nobody.

They definitely won't get that Big East invite while playing in the CAA.

Folks around UMass don't come to games to see the opponent. They don't care who in the CAA is playing. Having the same happen in the MAC won't be new.

[Sam Adams]

HU & NU continue to be CAA members, just not CAA FB League members.

Newsflash - this discussion concerns CAA FB if that fact wasn't clear to you before you now are on notice. We are discussing CAA FOOTBALL. Got it? [/QUOTE]



I've not heard of any CAA official "blame" individual schools for anything. Again, these are individual decisions that the CAA could not have prevented, even if they wanted to.

Do you bother to even read your own posts. You have spent lots of time blaming the individual schools for not investing enough and making up excuses for the CAA. The CAA scheduling of Home games during the heart of the season between September and October - dramatically favored the southern member schools over UMASS. THREE TO ONE. Worst home schedule in 50 years courtesy of our friends at the CAA. This is an example how the CAA operates and then wonders why they are losing members.


If I had to guess, I'd say that the chances are good that Stony Brook, Fordham and UNH will have full scholarship programs in the next 3 season and possibly UMaine might find a way to hold on for that long. Albany also hopes to fully fund FB at some point, though I don't know if that will be in the next 3 years. I also can't say if the PL will soon permit athletic grants for FB but, if they do, I'd imagine you could add Holy Cross to the list.

Your guess is pretty amusing. Maybe UNH will hang on. Maine is likely toast. I wish everybody all the best. As for the rest of your guesses - good luck - CAA.


WTF are you even talking about?! The brunt of the conference schedule doesn't even begin until Oct. Conference games are only occasionally played in Sept.

What am I talking about? I am talking about the CAA giving UMass a TERRIBLE home schedule. UMASS was given One CAA Home game between the beginning of the Academic Year and November. ONE !!!! Meanwhile JMU, W&M, Towson each had Three CAA Home Games and UD and Richmond each had Two CAA Home Games.

WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? xlolx




Saying that the CAA North is disappearing is obvious. Suggesting that the conference has been negligent, that it doesn't care about its member schools or somehow screwed UMass is indeed trashing the conference. Too bad you can't see that.

OKay. Well what would you call it when the CAA gives UMass ONE HOME CAA Game in an 8 Week Period during the heart of the season? How can you possible characterize the CAA home scheduling disparity as it relates to UMAss as anything other than absurd? Do you think its fair that some schools get THREE CAA Home games in the heart of the season, while another school gets merely ONE CAA HOME Game during the same period? Please feel free to attempt to justify that.

[tribe_pride]

What am I talking about? I am talking about the CAA giving UMass a TERRIBLE home schedule. UMASS was given One CAA Home game between the beginning of the Academic Year and November. ONE !!!! Meanwhile JMU, W&M, Towson each had Three CAA Home Games and UD and Richmond each had Two CAA Home Games.

WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? xlolx

OKay. Well what would you call it when the CAA gives UMass ONE HOME CAA Game in an 8 Week Period during the heart of the season? How can you possible characterize the CAA home scheduling disparity as it relates to UMAss as anything other than absurd? Do you think its fair that some schools get THREE CAA Home games in the heart of the season, while another school gets merely ONE CAA HOME Game during the same period? Please feel free to attempt to justify that.

I like how you responded to him and not me on this one.

UMass' home schedule was fine. Every CAA team (but JMU who had 0 and W&M who had 2 both away in New England) had only 1 CAA game in September. UMass was given a home CAA game in September.
In October, it was given Away, Bye, Home, Away, Away (sucks but W&M was away 2 CAA games in a row twice)
In November, it was given Home, Home, Away

Your home games were against 2 of the 3 CAA playoff teams you faced and you did not have to face the final CAA playoff team - Villanova.

You got to go away to traditional lower level CAA teams URI and Towson.

I would have loved for W&M to have had UMass' CAA schedule this year as opposed to its own.

[Sam Adams]

I like how you responded to him and not me on this one.

Hey TP its your lucky day - I'm responding to you.




UMass' home schedule was fine.

I guess you are entitled to your opinion. But in my opinion and in the opinion of many other Massachusetts fans that I have spoken with, we felt that the CAA giving us only 1 Home CAA game for the 8 wks between Labor Day and November was not "fine". We think it was a bad job by the CAA especially at a time when the CAA should have been alot more interested in retaining CAA North members than the CAA appeared to be. I think somebody else here commented that he thought it was the lousiest home conf schedule since 1958. Nuff said.



I would have loved for W&M to have had UMass' CAA schedule this year as opposed to its own.

Again thats your opinion. But if so then you should feel free to ask the CAA to schedule 1 Home CAA game for your program between Labor Day and early November and then see how much you & your fellow Tribe fans love it. Especially when other CAA programs have THREE HOME CAA Games in October. Meanwhile your program did have THREE HOME GAMES IN ROW - Good for you. But don't tell us that playing 1 home CAA game between Labor day and November is "fine". If its fine - you can take that schedule.

[umassfan]

UMass was invited twice to the Big East in the past. Once in the 70s and once in the 90s. They turned both down due to not being ready. This upgrade to the MAC will make them ready for that next step to the Big East in 4-5 years.

[Sam Minuteman]

I don't post on here often and really enjoyed the way this thread started but the past several pages seemed like a waste of time..... Clearly there are a lot of people that aren't happy for UMass which is understandable because if UMass does jump to FBS and the MAC conference for Football it will leave behind some great Football rivalries with one less opponent that has actually embraced FCS football. With any breakup there will be some hard feelings but I know the Hen's will be fine and continue to have plenty of options in FCS whether the CAA as it is now constituted remains intact or takes on a new flavor perhaps more centered in the Mid-Atlantic Center of the eastern coast. UNH and Maine might be in tougher positions as the cost of travel increases while revenue remains flat, I hope both teams find ways to remain competitive in FCS and grab a championship or two!

The argument that UMass had a good or bad schedule is subjective, but it could be argued that for northern teams Maine, UNH, Mass, and URI the better football weather comes earlier in the season while it is still warmer and for the teams further south it can be a lot hotter early in the season with crisp football weather coming later in the season. So it might make sense for Northern teams to play more home games early in the season and Southern teams play them later in the season. Although for competitive reasons this might give the southern teams an advantage.... Just a random thought I had while reading the above debate.

I never in my wildest dreams thought UMass would make the jump and really thought there was a better chance football would be dropped altogether based on the State funding and support for the Flagship. So I'm still holding my breath, all that being said here is how I see it.

Football is going to continue to become more expensive especially as teams in the New England region drop programs and downgrade.

No Big East invite is coming in the near future.

FBS teams earn about twice the guarantee ad FCS teams earn from playing BCS teams and can play 2-3 of those games per year. That can help offset a lot of the additional cost for teams making the jump.

UMass is a large land grant University with an athletic department that once thrived supporting virtually every sport it could, I mean water polo was a national power...... Why shouldn't the school pick itself up and start rebuilding that brand? Millions are spent by schools on marketing toward the best and brightest in hopes that those students will increase the academic prestige of the school, graduate into powerful positions and pay it forward. Outside of being an Ivy sports, specifically football are as good a way as any to market a school. People will crap on Tuesday night games but how much would a 1.5 hour slot on ESPN to promote a school. (sorry that point got a little long and convoluted)

The overall landscape of college athletics is changing, UMass went I-AA in the 70's, did nothing in the 90's, and is taking hold of it's future and being proactive with the one realistic opportunity it has to move up.

The economic landscape for this isn't perfect but it never will be, who knows maybe the whole thing will blow up be a colossal failure but trying something seems a lot better than doing nothing.

I have seen USF here in Tampa go from no team to the #2 team in the BCS for a week filling up an NFL stadium. Now they may not be filling up the stadium but the aura around game day is electric and I believe that Umass can do the same thing if not better seeing as Amherst is a great college town and McGurick is on campus and easier to fill up!


Yes I have maroon colored glasses on, so let the ripping begin.

-The Original Sam

[EmeryZach]

You are wrong... I heard word today from people close to the university that all we are waiting on is a formal invite from the MAC. They will not do that till they come meet with UMass on campus in Mid Dec. You are always negitive regarding UMass and I dont know why. This is 99% done. They are even talking about stadium upgrades once they accept. They plan on taking down the wall on the other side of the scoreboard to add endzone seats and make it a horseshoe type stadium. Also they will build a new field building with new locker rooms and offices. They need to update that building mainly because it does not have enough lockers for the added players. Plus there are no true offices in that building. Other improvements are in the works as well. The university chancellor has stated he will find the money to make this move for UMass.

Alright, what about the bathrooms? Can we add a whole bunch, because that's my biggest complaint after tailgating. How about the press booth?

And we all know I play the reverse psychology card regarding UMass.

[umassfan]

Alright, what about the bathrooms? Can we add a whole bunch, because that's my biggest complaint after tailgating. How about the press booth?

And we all know I play the reverse psychology card regarding UMass.
Yes bathrooms would be added. And they would have to update the press booth.

[BlueHenSinfonian]

I don't post on here often and really enjoyed the way this thread started but the past several pages seemed like a waste of time..... Clearly there are a lot of people that aren't happy for UMass which is understandable because if UMass does jump to FBS and the MAC conference for Football it will leave behind some great Football rivalries with one less opponent that has actually embraced FCS football. With any breakup there will be some hard feelings but I know the Hen's will be fine and continue to have plenty of options in FCS whether the CAA as it is now constituted remains intact or takes on a new flavor perhaps more centered in the Mid-Atlantic Center of the eastern coast. UNH and Maine might be in tougher positions as the cost of travel increases while revenue remains flat, I hope both teams find ways to remain competitive in FCS and grab a championship or two!

I think you have some good points, and I agree with you to a degree. Personally, I believe all state flagship universities should sponsor athletics at the highest level, which means that UMass, UD, UNH, Maine, and URI should all be playing FBS ball. I believe that UD will be a FBS team relatively soon in the grand scheme of things, which is part of the reason that UMass jumping to the weakest FBS conference now is a bit upsetting. There is certainly going to be some major FBS/FCS conference restructuring in the east, and there might be room for a brand new FBS conference, or at least room in an established one for a program like UMass.

I understand the desire to make a move before things get worse in New England for football, but it seems to me like some very good things could be on the horizon for the eastern powerhouse FCS programs, and that UMass moving right now to the MAC is effectively cutting themselves out of it for a deal that isn't so great to begin with.

[Sam Minuteman]

This gives readers a bit of insight into how MAC Fans view this, seems maybe 60/40 split in favor of bringing UMass but a lot of good points...... What I take from it is even if the MAC is not the best conference in FBS it is a foot in the door and an opportunity to prove ourselves, and even as good as the UMass program has been of late in FCS we are somewhat lucky to get the opportunity http://ncaabbs.com/showthread.php?tid=466563&page=1

I don't think the FBS schools would allow an entire group of eastern FCS schools to make the jump together and further dilute the revenue stream, but one at a time we could sneak in and go from there.....

[EmeryZach]

Yes bathrooms would be added. And they would have to update the press booth.

OK, then I'm fine with the move. If it means more bathrooms then I am definitely in. That's a deal winner for me.

[BlueHenSinfonian]

I don't think the FBS schools would allow an entire group of eastern FCS schools to make the jump together and further dilute the revenue stream, but one at a time we could sneak in and go from there.....

Do they get a vote on something like that? If UMass, UD, JMU, App State, ODU, and GaState all wanted to move up together and create a new conference at the FBS level, what would be the process? Could the existing FBS schools veto the move? Would it help to have existing FBS teams that might like a change of scenery like Temple or ECU onboard?

There are also the schools that are planning on adding football, like UNC Charlotte, which have stated they want to be FBS. I live fairly near Florida Gulf Coast University, and there has been some fairly serious talk about adding football there as well, although whether it would be FCS or FBS is still up in the air.

[GSU EAGLES]

Could the CAA (with ODU, G. St., and UNCC) become an FBS conference by swapping out a couple teams for ASU and GSU inquiring minds want to know?

I think that would be a great idea. With the strongest CAA teams, App and historically dominant Ga Southern, this conference would immediately pass the MAC and Sun Belt in conference strength.

[BlueHenSinfonian]

I think that would be a great idea. With the stongest CAA teams, App and historically dominant Ga Southern, this conference would immediately pass the MAC and Sun Belt in conference strength.

That's along the lines of what I was thinking, but you have big issues with these CAA teams -

Richmond - Brand new stadium that is way too small for FBS, in fact, it's smaller than Richmond could really use for FCS.
William and Mary - Limited enrollment and funds mean it could be a pretty big financial burden there, not sure if they would even want it
Towson - Barely competitive at the FCS level
Maine - Subpar facilities and a seeming lack of athletic support, though as Maine's premier university you'd think they could swing it
UNH - Historically a strong team, but again subpar facilities and they seem to care more about Hockey than football
Villanova - Already a BE baksetball powerhouse, if they go FBS, it will be Big East

So really, you have Delaware, JMU, and UMass if they don't go to the MAC that could conceivably fit. ODU, GaState, and UNCC make some sense, although GaState is still very new and who knows how good UNCC will be.

[superman7515]

And then subtract UD because as has been pointed out, the school has always been reactive, not proactive, and will only do anything when absolutely forced to do so. To think otherwise would be putting entirely too much faith in the administration or simply day-dreaming with blue & gold colored glasses. Remember how everyone was so excited about Muir coming over from Georgetown because of their great athletic tradition... umm... look at their football program. Before that it was Notre Dame... yeah, they're clearly a program that understands their place in the national landscape... only they still think it's 50 years ago. We're not going anywhere. The fans have too much pride to accept anything less than the ACC or Big East, the Admin couldn't care less to move up, and most are content being a big fish in a small pond. That's why I haven't talked any smack on UMass or Villanova or anyone else that wants to move up. I don't care if it's the Sun Belt. Go dominate the dayum thing then. Go get yours and don't worry about what everyone else tries to say is best for you. We'll be sitting here in the back of the bus watching the world pass us by. Now go run tell that homeboy.

[Sam Adams]

Do they get a vote on something like that? If UMass, UD, JMU, App State, ODU, and GaState all wanted to move up together and create a new conference at the FBS level, what would be the process? Could the existing FBS schools veto the move? Would it help to have existing FBS teams that might like a change of scenery like Temple or ECU onboard?


I think thats against the NCAA rules. An individual school can upgrade but I don't think the NCAA rules allow you to simply set up your own FBS conference and upgrade all the members simultaneously. Apparently there are also new rules pending w/the NCAA which would prohibit any upgrade unless the school was invited by an existing FBS conference.

[BlueHenSinfonian]

And then subtract UD because as has been pointed out, the school has always been reactive, not proactive, and will only do anything when absolutely forced to do so. To think otherwise would be putting entirely too much faith in the administration or simply day-dreaming with blue & gold colored glasses. Remember how everyone was so excited about Muir coming over from Georgetown because of their great athletic tradition... umm... look at their football program. Before that it was Notre Dame... yeah, they're clearly a program that understands their place in the national landscape... only they still think it's 50 years ago. We're not going anywhere. The fans have too much pride to accept anything less than the ACC or Big East, the Admin couldn't care less to move up, and most are content being a big fish in a small pond. That's why I haven't talked any smack on UMass or Villanova or anyone else that wants to move up. I don't care if it's the Sun Belt. Go dominate the dayum thing then. Go get yours and don't worry about what everyone else tries to say is best for you. We'll be sitting here in the back of the bus watching the world pass us by. Now go run tell that homeboy.

I wouldn't be quite so hard on the UD athletic leadership. We were instrumental in the formation of CAA football, and brought along a few schools to CAA basketball. Do you think Drexel, Hofstra, or Towson would have made the jump if we didn't?

As far as FBS football goes, a brand new conference would be better than a perpetual bottom dwelling one like the SunBelt or MAC. As a UD fan I'd hate to see us move to a 'Directional U' or Second/Third-Tier public University conference, but a brand new one made up of similar schools makes a lot of sense. Yes, the ACC is still the dream, but something new with top level CAA and SoCon teams is still better than the MAC or SunBelt.

[Maroon&White]

OK, then I'm fine with the move. If it means more bathrooms then I am definitely in. That's a deal winner for me.

What do new bathrooms at the stadium have to do with tailgating? I have a feeling most people who go to games have no idea how many bathrooms are at the stadium.

[TypicalTribe]

I think thats against the NCAA rules. An individual school can upgrade but I don't think the NCAA rules allow you to simply set up your own FBS conference and upgrade all the members simultaneously. Apparently there are also new rules pending w/the NCAA which would prohibit any upgrade unless the school was invited by an existing FBS conference.

Which is a problem because the existing FBS conferences are getting pretty close to capacity at this point. Would be great if the remaining teams in the WAC left, then the shell of the WAC could invite all the FBS aspirees from the CAA and SoCon and then rename the conference.

Bigger question with all this FBS talk is when are there simply too many teams? As of right now, there are 70 bowl slots. If another 15-20 teams join FBS in the next 5 years, would there really be an appetite for something like 40+ bowls?

One thing that hasn't been mentioned about the MAC which might be the biggest issue facing the conference is the inability to keep coaches. It seems that any coach that has success in the conference for even a year or two immediately moves on to a bigger job. I think it's the primary reason why there hasn't been a consistently dominant program and it hurts the conference to lack a consistent marquee matchup or two to generate some steady interest year over year.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

As far as FBS football goes, a brand new conference would be better than a perpetual bottom dwelling one like the SunBelt or MAC. As a UD fan I'd hate to see us move to a 'Directional U' or Second/Third-Tier public University conference, but a brand new one made up of similar schools makes a lot of sense. Yes, the ACC is still the dream, but something new with top level CAA and SoCon teams is still better than the MAC or SunBelt.

The group of Miami(OH), Temple, Umass, Ohio, and Buffalo would really help to eliminate the academic stigma that plagues the MAC. With that said, i do like Temple's A10 affiliation because it places us with great private schools as well has top notch national research universities. Without a doubt Umass, Temple and Buffalo have a lot more in common with Delaware, Pittsburgh, Rutgers, UCONN etc. than Northern Illinois, Kent State and Ball State. However, given the current circumstances there has to be a level of compromise in order to make it work.

[Spiderbone]

In regards to the OTHER CAA schools some thoughts...

Richmond - Brand new stadium that is way too small for FBS, in fact, it's smaller than Richmond could really use for FCS

YES, but Richmond has contingency plans to build it up to 15-16K if possible, limitations were initially placed on UR by the City because the University is in the western suburbs and UR just wanted to get "their foot in the door" and get something on campus. That being said the enrollment (2300) is WAY too small at UR to support FBS football. Heck, I graduated with more people in my high school than I did at UR. And as such, UR is essentially at the highest level it will ever compete IMHO.


William and Mary - Limited enrollment and funds mean it could be a pretty big financial burden there, not sure if they would even want it

Bad argument..WM has plenty of funds more and then some compared to other public institutions (JMU, ODU, Radford)in the state of Virginia. Their enrollment is approximately the same as the University of Miami. Football interest at WM is increasing exponentially with their recent success. Still the general attitude in the Burg is that WM likes where they are and in many ways are akin to UR in their athletic vision for the College.

Towson - Barely competitive at the FCS level

True but a huge school in a big city with funds behind them, (although football still plays second, even third fiddle to Towson LAX)

Maine - Subpar facilities and a seeming lack of athletic support, though as Maine's premier university you'd think they could swing it

I agree, no reason the sole state University couldn't become like Boise St in Idaho, Montana/Montana State, University of Hawaii, etc.

UNH - Historically a strong team, but again subpar facilities and they seem to care more about Hockey than football

Hockey school by far (remember what happened to Boston University, good football team went to the playoffs after going undefeated and football was cancelled to focus on hockey) Love UNH football, loved playing in the high-school like stadium with pieces of granite rock sticking out of the field, crack your skull open on that stuff. IF the administration doesn't focus on FB could be Teets up real soon.

Villanova - Already a BE baksetball powerhouse, if they go FBS, it will be Big East

...and they will still only get 500 fans to show up at a bowl game

So really, you have Delaware, JMU, and UMass if they don't go to the MAC that could conceivably fit. ODU, GaState, and UNCC make some sense, although GaState is still very new and who knows how good UNCC will be.

Dont forget VCU and Mason in the future....

[/QUOTE]

[Jackman]

Replying to a bunch of different things spread out through this thread:

- I personally have very few complaints with the CAA's treatment of UMass. If the schedule was odd this year, it's because of the havoc caused by Northeastern and Hofstra dropping their programs and the whole thing needing to be reworked without regional divisions. I still thought it was a favorable schedule in spite of that. And the CAA's overall administration has clearly been more competent than the A10's, IMO. The one and only thing I deeply resented about the CAA and its members were their repeated attempts to stick us with Georgia State in the North division. Even when NU and Hofstra left and Villanova and Delaware could be moved North without splitting them up, they were still talking about pairing Georgia State with Towson in the North rather than separate Nova/UD from the Virginians. Hopefully we'll be gone by the time they invite Charlotte to play in the CAA North. Would only make sense, since that's where Georgia State will be.

- UNH fans: what's the cost difference between building a stadium suitable for competing in the CAA, and building a stadium suitable for competing in the MAC? Think about it. The bigger a stadium is, the less it costs per seat. You know you have to do something about your facilities anyway. What good is your playoff streak if you're never going to host any games?

- D2s playing D1 sports: Unless it was changed in the last 2 years, the NCAA permits any member to reclassify one men's sport and one women's sport to a higher division, so long as that sport is not football or basketball (women's basketball included). I will find the relevant section in the NCAA handbook if someone says something sufficiently insulting about my intelligence to motivate me. This exception is only for a one division jump, so a Division III member can't use it to play Division I baseball, for example, they can only go to Division II.

- Regarding the new Eastern FBS Conference talk, does anyone have a copy of the new rule about FCS-to-FBS re-classifiers needing a "bonafide invitation" from an existing FBS Conference to move up, and know whether that would block the formation of a new conference unless you made a pitstop somewhere else first? I've never seen the final rule, and the proposal draft was half-assed because it was piggy-backed on the new requirements for Division II to Division I reclassifications.

- You can have a beer at your seat in Gillette Stadium. You can't at UMass. Just saying.

- According to the UMass AD, we are not going to spend more money on the FBS move than we expect to receive in new revenue streams. It's supposed to be balance sheet neutral compared to what we're losing already. Feel free to argue that one, LFN, but you'll have to take it up with the AD, not us. Our AD hasn't been prone to making big promises he can't deliver. He's more the type who likes to manage expectations (an essential skill at UMass), so those are bold words coming from him.

[henfan]

The one and only thing I deeply resented about the CAA and its members were their repeated attempts to stick us with Georgia State in the North division. Even when NU and Hofstra left and Villanova and Delaware could be moved North without splitting them up, they were still talking about pairing Georgia State with Towson in the North rather than separate Nova/UD from the Virginians.

Jackman, we can always count on your logical, reasonable, level-headed posts. Thanks.

Regarding the speculation about pairing GSU with the NE members, it's important to note that this was a rumored idea floated in the press, not a plan voted on or one that would/could be enacted by conference members. Had it ever come to a vote, UMass, UNH, URI and UMaine (which constitute 40% of the current FB conference) alone could have prevented it from happening. 3/4 majority vote carries the day in the CAA. I'm not sure why GSU themselves would want such an arrangement or why VU would have ever supported it.

Point taken though. Had it come to pass, it would have been a really bad idea on so many levels.

[GA St. MBB Fan]

Jackman, we can always count on your logical, reasonable, level-headed posts. Thanks.

Regarding the speculation about pairing GSU with the NE members, it's important to note that this was a rumored idea floated in the press, not a plan voted on or one that would/could be enacted by conference members. Had it ever come to a vote, UMass, UNH, URI and UMaine (which constitute 40% of the current FB conference) alone could have prevented it from happening. 3/4 majority vote carries the day in the CAA. I'm not sure why GSU themselves would want such an arrangement or why VU would have ever supported it.

Point taken though. Had it come to pass, it would have been a really bad idea on so many levels.

Granted this is a little out of date with all of the recent news. But here is a blog posting from the AJC's GSU blogger after his interview with Yeager. I think it is pretty clear that Yeager (at the time at least) intended for GSU to be in the North. See: http://blogs.ajc.com/georgia-state-sports/2010/10/20/caa-commish-talks-about-gsu/

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Was looking at that MAC thread on UMass and thought this perspective was really interesting:


At the rate that UMass is working, this may work in the MAC's favor. One thing to watch is the conference switching in football. Here's what I think will happen:

(1) The Big East conference will separate with the FB/BB schools going to one conference with the basketball schools going to another conference.

The following 10 schools: Cincinnati, UConn, Lousiville, Pittsburgh, Rutgers, South Florida, Syracuse, T.C.U., Villanova (they'lll go FBS), and West Virginia will break off and perhaps add some additional teams/or the B10/ACC will raid.

(2) The remaining 7 BB only schools from the Big East, DePaul, Georgetown, Marquette, Notre Dame (unless it eventually goes B10), Providence, Seton Hall, St. Johns will add what it perceives as the best teams from the A10.

The Big East will pick from the following group: Charlotte, Dayton, George Washington, Rhode Island, Richmond, St. Joseph's, St. Louis, Xavier.

(3) Once the A10 is gutted, Temple and UMass will be better suited in the MAC for all sports rather than playing the likes of Duquesne, Fordham and LaSalle in basketball in a watered down A10.

If the MAC can add WKU for all sports, then that also helps lure UMass and Temple for all sports as MAC basketball improves.

So the MAC is seeing this as using football as leverage to ultimately get UMass and Temple into the MAC in all sports once the Big East splits up and the Atlantic 10 is raided.

Is this the vision of the future that UMass fans have in mind?

It may be a good move, I'm not sure. But I think this scenario is a lot more likely for UMass than ultimately being in the Big East. In the MAC for the next thirty years. Maybe in all sports.

[henfan]

I think it is pretty clear that Yeager (at the time at least) intended for GSU to be in the North.

You're reading too much into what Yeager actually said.

It's far from clear what Yeager intended according to his direct comments posted in the linked blog: “There’s some potential there’ll be some lively discussions about the new division set-up. There isn’t a really easy identifiable way to split it.”

And this is a paraphrase from the blogger: "Anyway, what Yeager said was that in the previous north-south alignment, Villanova and Delaware both developed strong rivalries with Richmond, James Madison and William and Mary. So they aren’t going to want to get sent to play in the other division where the ties aren’t as strong. Further, Villanova and Delaware play each other in a season-ending game that Yeager likened to Georgia-Georgia Tech. So it sounds like both schools’ strong preference would be to stay together and in the south."

Again, Yeager appears to be expressing the preferences of the 5 member schools preferences, not his own personal preferences (as if his personal preferences mattered one iota.) The 5 schools mentioned didn't constitute a 3/4 majority that could have forced GSU into a division with the NE schools, which is why Yeager indicated that there was "potential" for lively discussions ahead.

[49RFootballNow]

This is great! By the time we join this conference in 2015 Georgia Southern and Delaware will be the furthest away games for us!!!! BUS TRIP!!!

[SumItUp]

This is great! By the time we join this conference in 2015 Georgia Southern and Delaware will be the furthest away games for us!!!! BUS TRIP!!!

Georgia Southern or Georgia State?

[49RFootballNow]

Georgia Southern or Georgia State?

Some speculation that if all the CAA northern schools bolt that they'll make a play for App St and Georgia Southern.

[henfan]

Some speculation that if all the CAA northern schools bolt that they'll make a play for App St and Georgia Southern.

Speculation from whom? School officials? Newspaper columnists? Message board posters?

[49RFootballNow]

Speculation from whom? School officials? Newspaper columnists? Message board posters?

Do you really have to ask?

[henfan]

Do you really have to ask?

I wasn't trying to be a wise guy, just trying to determine if the speculation had any basis in reality.

I heard from two different sources in ADs at two different schools that something is brewing between ECU, Marshall, App St., JMU and UD. The beat writer at the local newspaper apparently heard the same rumors and posed the question to UD's AD.

[49RFootballNow]

I wasn't trying to be a wise guy, just trying to determine if the speculation had any basis in reality.

I heard from two different sources in ADs at two different schools that something is brewing between ECU, Marshall, App St., JMU and UD. The beat writer at the local newspaper apparently heard the same rumors and posed the question to UD's AD.

SOmething might be brewing between those schools, but it won't involve ECU Football. Maybe a new basketball league and ECU going Independent in football?

[henfan]

SOmething might be brewing between those schools, but it won't involve ECU Football. Maybe a new basketball league and ECU going Independent in football?

The suggestions I heard involved ONLY football and did indeed include ECU. The rumor has been poo-poo'ed by the UD AD, not that he would be in a position to verify it even if it were true.

http://www.delawareonline.com/article/20101202/SPORTS07/12020354/1028/Blue-Hens-in-no-rush-to-leave-the-CAA

[GSU EAGLES]

Some speculation that if all the CAA northern schools bolt that they'll make a play for App St and Georgia Southern.

Ga Southern and App would certainly bring a lot to the table in terms of performance on the field with 9 national titles between them.

[DSUrocks07]

Ga Southern and App would certainly bring a lot to the table in terms of performance on the field with 9 national titles between them.

Not to mention it would solidify the CAA's footprint in the southeast.

[UMass922]

So the MAC is seeing this as using football as leverage to ultimately get UMass and Temple into the MAC in all sports once the Big East splits up and the Atlantic 10 is raided.

Is this the vision of the future that UMass fans have in mind?

All I need to be happy (I speak only for myself, of course) is a major New England rival in-conference. For me, the main appeal of the Big East is not that it's a BCS league, but that it's where UConn is. If we could somehow bring UNH with us to the MAC, I'd be happy being in the MAC long-term. I don't want UMass to be the lone New England team in an Ohio-based conference, just as I don't want UMass to be the lone New England team in a Virginia-based conference (which is probably what we'd end up being before too long if we remained in the CAA).

[UMass922]

What I fear is a situation that looks like this long-term:

Boston College - ACC
UConn - Big East
UMass - MAC
UNH - FCS (NEC or wherever)

I don't want UMass to be disconnected from its best potential rivals like that. It's not that we wouldn't see games against those teams, but it's just not the same when you're competing at different levels (UConn and BC as BCS programs, UMass as an FBS mid-major, UNH as an FCS program). And UConn and BC don't even play each other (and probably won't anytime soon), so the state of New England college football as a whole would be very fragmented, which is not how I'd like it to be long-term.

[NHwildEcat]

What I fear is a situation that looks like this long-term:

Boston College - ACC
UConn - Big East
UMass - MAC
UNH - FCS (NEC or wherever)

I don't want UMass to be disconnected from its best potential rivals like that. It's not that we wouldn't see games against those teams, but it's just not the same when you're competing at different levels (UConn and BC as BCS programs, UMass as an FBS mid-major, UNH as an FCS program). And UConn and BC don't even play each other (and probably won't anytime soon), so the state of New England college football as a whole would be very fragmented, which is not how I'd like it to be long-term.

I agree with you!

As far as UNH and their new situation of not having UMASS in conference and only having Maine as a true rival/ally, I have a feeling that we will be hearing UNH's long term decision after our playoff run. Hopefully that means we won't have an idea until mid-January. :)

[Sam Adams]

I agree it would be best to have UNH make the jump but I don't see it happening because they would need to put in a stadium. It would be awesome though. xnodx

[NHwildEcat]

I agree it would be best to have UNH make the jump but I don't see it happening because they would need to put in a stadium. It would be awesome though. xnodx

I have been saving my pennies haha :)

[Maroon&White]

What I fear is a situation that looks like this long-term:

Boston College - ACC
UConn - Big East
UMass - MAC
UNH - FCS (NEC or wherever)

I don't want UMass to be disconnected from its best potential rivals like that. It's not that we wouldn't see games against those teams, but it's just not the same when you're competing at different levels (UConn and BC as BCS programs, UMass as an FBS mid-major, UNH as an FCS program). And UConn and BC don't even play each other (and probably won't anytime soon), so the state of New England college football as a whole would be very fragmented, which is not how I'd like it to be long-term.

You forgot URI. Well, maybe you didn't, but they should be there.

[umass109]

I hope UMass gets to upgrade. It's something talked about forever, but finally it seems to be happening. And it isn't all football related. UMass gets no respect from the eastern part of the state-Boston. Especially the legislature, governor, everybody. They don't fund us at all for academics, never mind football. We're losing professors, a lot of our buildings need updating. This is a push by UMass to get Boston's *** in gear.

Right now our school is known as being in the shadow of UConn. They've pumped a ton of money over the past 20-30 years into the campus, buildings, and sports. All the other New England schools, UNH, Maine, Rhode Island, and us are reeling from not doing what UConn did. RI dropped down, Maine and UNH football programs will be lost soon.

While you can't say that UConn's success has come all because of football, that's a big part of it. The Boston Globe ran a series of in depth articles about UMass and some of our troubles. One was comparing UMass to UConn. In it, they highlight that UConn students have much higher SAT's, stricter admission standards, more out of state students, they have more tenured professors, better academic buildings, better dorms, and importantly a lot of school spirit springing from its basketball and football programs. I think this series really highlighted how UMass has been neglected.

Now, UConn dumped a couple of billion dollars in addition to the football program into the school, but the new football stadium brought it all together.

www.boston.com/news/education/higher/articles/2010/10/24/uconn_scores_by_spending_more/

I really think that if UMass did what UConn did, it will do what UConn did.

As for the Big East, I can see us being competitive within a couple of years, and it sounds like from some of the posts on the board that our invitation is already a done deal. I bet that a lot of Big East teams are the one pusihing UMass to upgrade because they need schools like UMass. I'm not sure how the scheduling would be, but Syracuse, BC, UConn on our schedule every year will really heat things up for attendance. Those are schools we would travel to. It would help everybody because BC doesn't even sell out their home games. Also, being able to go to one of the big bowl games every year would be huge for the school. We can play our games in Foxborough or even rent out UConn's stadium when they aren't using it until we can build a 50k stadium of our own.

[aceinthehole]

I hope UMass gets to upgrade. It's something talked about forever, but finally it seems to be happening. And it isn't all football related. UMass gets no respect from the eastern part of the state-Boston. Especially the legislature, governor, everybody. They don't fund us at all for academics, never mind football. We're losing professors, a lot of our buildings need updating. This is a push by UMass to get Boston's *** in gear.

Right now our school is known as being in the shadow of UConn. They've pumped a ton of money over the past 20-30 years into the campus, buildings, and sports. All the other New England schools, UNH, Maine, Rhode Island, and us are reeling from not doing what UConn did. RI dropped down, Maine and UNH football programs will be lost soon.

While you can't say that UConn's success has come all because of football, that's a big part of it. The Boston Globe ran a series of in depth articles about UMass and some of our troubles. One was comparing UMass to UConn. In it, they highlight that UConn students have much higher SAT's, stricter admission standards, more out of state students, they have more tenured professors, better academic buildings, better dorms, and importantly a lot of school spirit springing from its basketball and football programs. I think this series really highlighted how UMass has been neglected.

Now, UConn dumped a couple of billion dollars in addition to the football program into the school, but the new football stadium brought it all together.

www.boston.com/news/education/higher/articles/2010/10/24/uconn_scores_by_spending_more/

I really think that if UMass did what UConn did, it will do what UConn did.

As for the Big East, I can see us being competitive within a couple of years, and it sounds like from some of the posts on the board that our invitation is already a done deal. I bet that a lot of Big East teams are the one pusihing UMass to upgrade because they need schools like UMass. I'm not sure how the scheduling would be, but Syracuse, BC, UConn on our schedule every year will really heat things up for attendance. Those are schools we would travel to. It would help everybody because BC doesn't even sell out their home games. Also, being able to go to one of the big bowl games every year would be huge for the school. We can play our games in Foxborough or even rent out UConn's stadium when they aren't using it until we can build a 50k stadium of our own.

I agree. Imagine how CCSU feels, as we were ignored by the State of CT while BILLIONS were invested at UConn and we got NOTHING!! :(

Connecticut had the resources to invest in its flagship university. The Bay State might have been able to do the same while the economy was riding high, but I think that's much tougher now - most of that UConn investment was state bonding (borrowing). The other 4 New England states are too small to invest at that level - you can't compare URI, Maine, UNH or UVM to UConn/UMass. They may all be former Yankee Conference rivals, but CT/MA have the population and resources at least 3x as much as the others.

[Bull_In_Exile]

I have been saving my pennies haha :)

UNH, if they got their facilities up to par, would be another nice Addition in terms of academics and profile. The last two teams added to the MAC (Buffalo and Temple) do not really fit Ohio/MI mold two more would balance out the conference.

[NovaWildcat]

I hope UMass gets to upgrade. It's something talked about forever, but finally it seems to be happening. And it isn't all football related. UMass gets no respect from the eastern part of the state-Boston. Especially the legislature, governor, everybody. They don't fund us at all for academics, never mind football. We're losing professors, a lot of our buildings need updating. This is a push by UMass to get Boston's *** in gear.

Right now our school is known as being in the shadow of UConn. They've pumped a ton of money over the past 20-30 years into the campus, buildings, and sports. All the other New England schools, UNH, Maine, Rhode Island, and us are reeling from not doing what UConn did. RI dropped down, Maine and UNH football programs will be lost soon.

While you can't say that UConn's success has come all because of football, that's a big part of it. The Boston Globe ran a series of in depth articles about UMass and some of our troubles. One was comparing UMass to UConn. In it, they highlight that UConn students have much higher SAT's, stricter admission standards, more out of state students, they have more tenured professors, better academic buildings, better dorms, and importantly a lot of school spirit springing from its basketball and football programs. I think this series really highlighted how UMass has been neglected.

Now, UConn dumped a couple of billion dollars in addition to the football program into the school, but the new football stadium brought it all together.

www.boston.com/news/education/higher/articles/2010/10/24/uconn_scores_by_spending_more/

I really think that if UMass did what UConn did, it will do what UConn did.

As for the Big East, I can see us being competitive within a couple of years, and it sounds like from some of the posts on the board that our invitation is already a done deal. I bet that a lot of Big East teams are the one pusihing UMass to upgrade because they need schools like UMass. I'm not sure how the scheduling would be, but Syracuse, BC, UConn on our schedule every year will really heat things up for attendance. Those are schools we would travel to. It would help everybody because BC doesn't even sell out their home games. Also, being able to go to one of the big bowl games every year would be huge for the school. We can play our games in Foxborough or even rent out UConn's stadium when they aren't using it until we can build a 50k stadium of our own.

Nice post. A lot of great points there.

The one thing I don't understand is why people think UMass invite to the BE is a 'done deal.' That we know of, there are at least two schools higher on the BE pecking order: Nova and UCF. If those two were to occur, the conference is probably looking in a few years to add one more team to make 12 (for a conf. championship).

UMass seems like a great choice, if the money gets pumped in, but I'm just not sure how we can automatically peg UMass as next in line.

[BearsCountry]

I agree. Imagine how CCSU feels, as we were ignored by the State of CT while BILLIONS were invested at UConn and we got NOTHING!! :(

Connecticut had the resources to invest in its flagship university. The Bay State might have been able to do the same while the economy was riding high, but I think that's much tougher now - most of that UConn investment was state bonding (borrowing). The other 4 New England states are too small to invest at that level - you can't compare URI, Maine, UNH or UVM to UConn/UMass. They may all be former Yankee Conference rivals, but CT/MA have the population and resources at least 3x as much as the others.

Have you guys ever thought of dropping the Central part out your name. Connecticut State I think would end up being a great thing, I know for us it has been pretty darn good.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

While you can't say that UConn's success has come all because of football, that's a big part of it. The Boston Globe ran a series of in depth articles about UMass and some of our troubles. One was comparing UMass to UConn. In it, they highlight that UConn students have much higher SAT's, stricter admission standards, more out of state students, they have more tenured professors, better academic buildings, better dorms, and importantly a lot of school spirit springing from its basketball and football programs.

I have to contest this statement. UConn's success hasn't stemmed from football. It's come from their national championship-winning men's and women's basketball programs. UConn is not, and never has been, a football school. When you say "UConn", you're a heck of a lot more likely to say "Jim Calhoun" than "Dan Orlovsky". Heck, you're even more likely to hear "Geno Auriemma" than anything resembling football. My folks live in this state; I know.

And much of their "success" has been due to the governor's pouring of treasure into Storrs, a backwater part of the state. Now, behind the scenes perhaps it has helped their standing and clout inside the Big East, I don't know. But claiming that UConn's success is because of football? That's a crock.

I'm fine with UConn being in the Big East. It was the right thing to do for them. But folks make ridiculous claims about how FBS football programs, and this is one of them.

[Maroon&White]

Heck, you're even more likely to hear "Geno Toretta" than anything resembling football.

You're even more likely to hear Geno Auriemma.

[danefan]

Look comparing UConn to UMass is tough because of a number of reasons as set out above.

But when you speak to casual fans (the ones that really make a difference - diehard fans will be diehard fans no matter what) you will generally hear this difference:

UConn - great basketball and overall solid athletics program including their BCS level football program that I regularly see mentioned on ESPN, ABC, etc... This is the case even though most people don't know squat about the programs other than football and basketball. They just assume because they're good at basketball and have BCS football that they're overall athletics program is top notch.

UMass - great final four run in the 90s, great band. Do they play football? Oh yeah, that's right they play DII football. What other sports do they have?

I'm as a big an FCS fan as anyone, but that's the reality.

[TypicalTribe]

Basketball, both men's and women's, put UConn on the map. That, combined with being the flagship public institution, it's proximity to ESPN and it's existing membership in the Big East, allowed the football program an obvious avenue towards successful growth.

As someone else said, UMass is in a much different situation because it's not Boston's school, BC is, and is the state really ready to support a competing FBS program? I think it's probably the right decision to make a run at it, but it does feel a little bit like threading a needle to be successful long-term.

[henfan]

The other key difference between UC & UM that can't be overlooked: if the State of CT didn't fund construction of the $92M Rentschler Field, UConn likely doesn't reclassify its FB program.

Is there a similar deal forthcoming from the State of Massachusetts and its taxpayers to fund UMass football, especially absent a major conference bid guarantee?

[Maroon&White]

There is no actual need for a new stadium. While a new, or simply renovated, stadium would be nice, they don't absolutely need it.

[umass109]

I'm not saying that UMass upgrading to FBS would make all the difference. But it's at least a start of a commitment from the legislature to fund UMass.

We need to have the "elites" in Boston stop acting like UMass is a backwater school. If we had the resources put into UMass like UConn did, we wouldn't be in such a bad situation right now. Would having a successful sports program, especially football, bring us more attention and money from the politicians? I think so.

UMass now costs $12,000 a year for instate residents, $20,000 a year for in-state residents to attend including room and board. And they want to raise it! Yet we haven't had any modernization of the campus.

If we don't upgrade now, for the next 20-30 years we aren't going to see another opportunity.

[umass109]

The other key difference between UC & UM that can't be overlooked: if the State of CT didn't fund construction of the $92M Rentschler Field, UConn likely doesn't reclassify its FB program.

Is there a similar deal forthcoming from the State of Massachusetts and its taxpayers to fund UMass football, especially absent a major conference bid guarantee?

In the beginning, I don't think we need big dollars to upgrade our stadium. We can split games at Foxborough, and do small dollar upgrades to McGuirk. If we show success, then the money to build will come from alumni, other donors, and maybe the state.

Right now the eastern part of the state, Boston, all the other schools, even the media treat us like the red-headed step child. On the day that freshman were moving into their dorms the Globe ran their stories about how much UMass used to be good but now sucks!

Upgrade to FBS. Win games. Get public on our side. Get money to come. Get students to come. Now with money, the public and students sit back and watch UMass in the Orange Bowl.

[Maroon&White]

What do you consider modernization of the campus?

And the students do come. This years freshmen class was the largest ever and was selected from the largest pool of applicants ever.

[NHwildEcat]

In the beginning, I don't think we need big dollars to upgrade our stadium. We can split games at Foxborough, and do small dollar upgrades to McGuirk. If we show success, then the money to build will come from alumni, other donors, and maybe the state.

Right now the eastern part of the state, Boston, all the other schools, even the media treat us like the red-headed step child. On the day that freshman were moving into their dorms the Globe ran their stories about how much UMass used to be good but now sucks!

Upgrade to FBS. Win games. Get public on our side. Get money to come. Get students to come. Now with money, the public and students sit back and watch UMass in the Orange Bowl.

Will the entire team be buying tickets? Very much premature talking about Bowl games don't you think. Playing in the MAC will not get you to the Orange Bowl...but maybe the Meineke Car Care Bowl or some other Bowl that will suck money out of the program.

[Sam Adams]

Yet we haven't had any modernization of the campus.

This is laughably and totally false. They have been building and renovating all over campus. They just opened up a SOA Gleaming Recreation Center and have just unveiled plans for a new 182 Million Residence area. Not to mention a brand new SOA Power Plant, new residential area 3 yrs ago and several huge new academic buildings on campus. There needs to be more investment - but the notion that there hasn't been any modernization is patently false and absurd.

[danefan]

Hey maybe its paying off already in recruiting?

Just saw the ticker on MSG Varsity showing that Brian Dowling out of Wayne Hills NJ committed to UMass. He's a heck of player that I think was way overlooked by FBS schools.

Here's his junior highlight tape:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FK1Hvqh-_zA

Senior year was even better.

[Sitting Bull]

How about a nice expanded scholarship Patriot League for football

North
Holy Cross
Colgate
Fordham
Lafayette
Lehigh
Bucknell

South
William & Mary
Richmond
Furman
Wofford
Elon
Davidson

Nice collection of good football schools and academic "powerhouses".

I like this in general. I would like to replace Fordham with Villanova (still don't think they move to Big East - they certainly can't support it) and add Delaware/Citadel in replacement of Wofford/Davidson.

I am not convinced those that run UD want to be a small fish in a big pond. Don't blame them.

[EmeryZach]

Hey maybe its paying off already in recruiting?

Just saw the ticker on MSG Varsity showing that Brian Dowling out of Wayne Hills NJ committed to UMass. He's a heck of player that I think was way overlooked by FBS schools.

Here's his junior highlight tape:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FK1Hvqh-_zA

Senior year was even better.

Dowling is awesome. He is going to be a huge star for UMass. He will surprise all the FBS schools who overlooked him. You have to see him play in person, it's crazy.

[Maroon&White]

Dowling is awesome. He is going to be a huge star for UMass. He will surprise all the FBS schools who overlooked him. You have to see him play in person, it's crazy.

Almost like watching any star HS player?

[danefan]

Almost like watching any star HS player?

Seriously - he's a major talent. NJ HS football is pretty darn good. Heck there are 5 QBs in Bergen County with DI verbals already. Dowling is, IMO the 2nd best player in North Jersey. The first is Tanner McEvoy at Bergen Catholic who has 35+ FBS offers and has narrowed it down to all SEC schools and flew down to the SEC championship today on SC's dime.

Dowling is the prime example of why Rutgers is going downhill. The South Florida pipeline dried up and Schiano is letting kids like this get away.

[EmeryZach]

Seriously - he's a major talent. NJ HS football is pretty darn good. Heck there are 5 QBs in Bergen County with DI verbals already. Dowling is, IMO the 2nd best player in North Jersey. The first is Tanner McEvoy at Bergen Catholic who has 35+ FBS offers and has narrowed it down to all SEC schools and flew down to the SEC championship today on SC's dime.

Dowling is the prime example of why Rutgers is going downhill. The South Florida pipeline dried up and Schiano is letting kids like this get away.

Thanks for the backup. Don't know why my fellow UMass'er hammered me there, hahaha. If Dowling was 4 inches taller he would have had more FBS teams looking at him.

[tmacguffin]

I'm a UConn alum/fan. But, like many, I live in the middle of a lot of FCS programs & have loved football at this level for most of my life.

After 33 pages on this thread, let me put down a number of thoughts:

(i.) Talking about the NCAA as the governing body is silly. The BCS is the BCS. The NCAA is literally a bystander to the real power in College Football. There's no NCAA rule that can't be quickly taken on by the few BCS commissioners in Football. Movement & Advancement that makes sense (big $$$) can happen.
(ii.) It took 27 pages of this thread to address the point that is foremost in my mind: Will the CAA move to FBS status? I don't think there is near the impediment that you think. And ... I love the tradition & the ego-driven chestpumping, but the money deal is changing. You do not make anywhere near the money in a Playoff as what comes to a CONFERENCE (split) in Bowls. That's why Bowls will continue & any changes will be at the margins. The Big Bucks? Look at the new TV contracts. One by one (first the SEC; then the B10; Pac 10; ACC; restructured B12 (now 10 schools); and soon the BE) the dollars are huge & they will filter down to the reaches of the FBS ... including your favorite MAC.
(iii.) There is NO way that UMASS gets in the Big East. This is about markets. In a best case scenario, there is no incremental revenue from major sources in the Amherst school. Return of BC? Maybe. I think the University of Toronto has more chance to get into the BE. UCF? Yes. Unfortunately, I think Temple will never be given another chance. Villanova? My guess is that their venture is foundering. Faculty is loud. But, the biggest note I think is that this bid has not developed into a groundswell of big money pushing for Villanova to play Big East Football. (what happens to them? depends on what happens with the CAA.)
(iv.) I think the MAC is a better conference than most of the CAA fans here know. UConn can have a thriving series with UMASS even with the different levels of FBS. New England football needs every boost it can get. Edsall has proven that you can get solid athletic NE kids; just not very developed. UNH? Gosh I hope they keep up with the highest levels of FCS. But, what most of you don't know unless you lived near New Hampshire: They ain't spending a dime. Their hockey facility is surprising; but, you NEED a major backer to step up & fund something like this for that state. Ain't happening.
(v.) The relative Capital expended is immense. UConn really threaded the needle on getting things done. Just an amazing sequence of events. (which includes being part of the Big East, a BCS signatory). (I disagree that UMASS was invited twice to the BE. In the 90's? )
(vi.) What is the future of the FCS? Fundamentally, I think this is a loser. Eventually the really partial scholarship level. (maybe 40-50) That is good for some. But, many are spending lots of money at the current level & they will want a Return on Investment.

I've enjoyed reading this. I learned a lot.

[newhampshirecats]

tmac -- good points. I don't think UNH would have a hard time keeping up. Remember, up until this year, they were playing in the CAA North so they had to play Northeastern, Hofstra, URI, Maine etc. every year. It's not like those teams are national powers. They would only play the southern schools for two or three games (and usually lose to the likes of JMU, W&M). This year was the hardest schedule they ever played. So even if they have to move conferences and play in an expanded Patriot League (full scholarship), they can still schedule 3 tough OOC games, basically the same amount they are getting now anyway. Playing Lehigh, Holy Cross and Fordham won't be much different from playing Northeastern, Hofstra and URI.

[Maroon&White]

Don't know why my fellow UMass'er hammered me there, hahaha. If Dowling was 4 inches taller he would have had more FBS teams looking at him.

Mr. Negative doesn't understand why?

Dowlings height is not what prevents him from getting more FBS offers. If you don't understand that you are more clueless then I even think you are. And that would be difficult to do.

[UNHFan]

I have all kinds of views!!! but right now!!! Enjoy!! Go for it!

[UNHFan]

Great to be Marshall!!

[Mattymc727]

tmac -- good points. I don't think UNH would have a hard time keeping up. Remember, up until this year, they were playing in the CAA North so they had to play Northeastern, Hofstra, URI, Maine etc. every year. It's not like those teams are national powers. They would only play the southern schools for two or three games (and usually lose to the likes of JMU, W&M). This year was the hardest schedule they ever played. So even if they have to move conferences and play in an expanded Patriot League (full scholarship), they can still schedule 3 tough OOC games, basically the same amount they are getting now anyway. Playing Lehigh, Holy Cross and Fordham won't be much different from playing Northeastern, Hofstra and URI.

I agree, UNH really did have a super tough schedule. We were two plays away from being 9-2 in the CAA (maine/URI). People dont look at the colonial clash, but I think the way UNH dominated was a big sign. IF we play our game, we could beat anyone in the FCS. I think Umass will not only compete in the MAC, but will contend for a title right away. The CAA might have had their best season talent wise ever. I think finally UNH and Umass are on their way up football wise, hopefully the rivalry continues.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I agree, UNH really did have a super tough schedule. We were two plays away from being 9-2 in the CAA (maine/URI). People dont look at the colonial clash, but I think the way UNH dominated was a big sign. IF we play our game, we could beat anyone in the FCS. I think Umass will not only compete in the MAC, but will contend for a title right away. The CAA might have had their best season talent wise ever. I think finally UNH and Umass are on their way up football wise, hopefully the rivalry continues.

I'm not sure if Umass will come in and compete right away. I believe they'd struggle to finish .500 in the conference at first. The top MAC schools are better than you think. The bottom half is dreadful which is where the MAC gets its reputation from.

[Mattymc727]

I'm not sure if Umass will come in and compete right away. I believe they'd struggle to finish .500 in the conference at first. The top MAC schools are better than you think. The bottom half is dreadful which is where the MAC gets its reputation from.

Good point, but I think UMass has the D to be a top 3 team in the MAC. Im not positive on who their QB or RB's are next year, but Umass competed in the CAA, which is better than the MAC in my opinion. I think Umass will be great long term in the MAC, but i think this is a starting point for them for something bigger (Big East/ACC). Only time will tell, my opinion can only be proven by overall wins and losses.

[UNHFan]

I am sure many great points!! All I can say is..... FCS Sit tight!! 5-10 years! We will have arguments about national champs! Kids want to play... they dont want to have a chance maybe I just might play my sr year at USC... ect...hence why such great players are in the FCS today. Look AT 1-AA 5 YEARS AGO.

[Mattymc727]

I am sure many great points!! All I can say is..... FCS Sit tight!! 5-10 years! We will have arguments about national champs! Kids want to play... they dont want to have a chance maybe I just might play my sr year at USC... ect...hence why such great players are in the FCS today. Look AT 1-AA 5 YEARS AGO.

To a point yes, but if you play at USC you have such a better resume for the NFL than playing for an FCS school. While playing for a title is a draw, the best players in the country will always choose FBS based on NFL resume's.

[Maroon&White]

Good point, but I think UMass has the D to be a top 3 team in the MAC. Im not positive on who their QB or RB's are next year, but Umass competed in the CAA, which is better than the MAC in my opinion. I think Umass will be great long term in the MAC, but i think this is a starting point for them for something bigger (Big East/ACC). Only time will tell, my opinion can only be proven by overall wins and losses.

The UMass D cost UMass the playoffs. They were the weak spot on the team.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Good point, but I think UMass has the D to be a top 3 team in the MAC. Im not positive on who their QB or RB's are next year, but Umass competed in the CAA, which is better than the MAC in my opinion.

The only bench markers to use is Temple (8-4) 31 Villanova 24 and Buffalo (2-9) 31 Rhode Island 0.

[Mattymc727]

The UMass D cost UMass the playoffs. They were the weak spot on the team.

If you are referring to the URI game, even UNH, one of the best defenses in the CAA if not the country, let URI score a ton on them. I think Umass is gonna be fine, but then again only results will tell.

[Maroon&White]

No I'm talking about the entire season. I don't care how many points were scored on them, against Richmond and URI they needed one stop on the final drive and couldn't make it. If UMass has anything that would make them Top 3 in the MAC it would be the offense, not the defense. Don Brown left town 2 seasons ago and so did his defense you seem to remember.

[Mattymc727]

No I'm talking about the entire season. I don't care how many points were scored on them, against Richmond and URI they needed one stop on the final drive and couldn't make it. If UMass has anything that would make them Top 3 in the MAC it would be the offense, not the defense. Don Brown left town 2 seasons ago and so did his defense you seem to remember.

well you would probably know more than I so I stand corrected. I still think Umass just seemed to struggle offensively, and the D had too much to handle considering the CAA teams (look how well they did against W&M). Ultimately, Umass will be fine on botsides of the ball, this year was an incredible year for the CAA. Actually, Umass did way better than expected, meaning there is good coaching, just tough scheduling

[UNHFan]

To a point yes, but if you play at USC you have such a better resume for the NFL than playing for an FCS school. While playing for a title is a draw, the best players in the country will always choose FBS based on NFL resume's.
My point is... so many great talents spend there whole careers on the bench cause the young kid s say WOW!!! USC ect... Well flacco is he new bread I mean its now common more then ever! Will my son play??? Hence great players in the FCS and I mean its only going to get better. Look just look at 1-AA a few years ago. NOW?? insane!!! You choose William & Mary as a talent you get major look!!! 5 years ago? NO!! Look its just an amazing time I watch FCS FBS Transfers its insane the last year....I say sit tight!! FCS and Ill bet the house 5 years from now!! Bidding wars for our play-off system on ESPN to Network!

[Maroon&White]

I still think Umass just seemed to struggle offensively, and the D had too much to handle considering the CAA teams (look how well they did against W&M)

You also said the UD D is underrated xeyebrowx

[Mattymc727]

You also said the UD D is underrated xeyebrowx

I think it is..... What are you getting at? I think both UD and Umass have great defenses.

[Maroon&White]

That you have no idea what you are talking about.

[Sader87]

My point is... so many great talents spend there whole careers on the bench cause the young kid s say WOW!!! USC ect... Well flacco is he new bread I mean its now common more then ever! Will my son play??? Hence great players in the FCS and I mean its only going to get better. Look just look at 1-AA a few years ago. NOW?? insane!!! You choose William & Mary as a talent you get major look!!! 5 years ago? NO!! Look its just an amazing time I watch FCS FBS Transfers its insane the last year....I say sit tight!! FCS and Ill bet the house 5 years from now!! Bidding wars for our play-off system on ESPN to Network!

Relax...very few care about FCS football around the country.

[Mattymc727]

That you have no idea what you are talking about.

I dont know what you are saying. Umass had a good defense, yet lost to some very good teams (the offense was ok, but with the talent at reciever, RB, QB) they could have been even better. UD had a great offense, and a great defense (which nobody talks about). Umass could have beaten 6 teams that were giving a playoff chance if not more. Plus, this is a rdiculous argument considering I'm supporting Umass (as a UNH fan), and you keep bringing me down. Let me know if I am still being unclear (I have been drinking a lot and could possibly just been rambling at points).

[umassfan]

well you would probably know more than I so I stand corrected. I still think Umass just seemed to struggle offensively, and the D had too much to handle considering the CAA teams (look how well they did against W&M). Ultimately, Umass will be fine on botsides of the ball, this year was an incredible year for the CAA. Actually, Umass did way better than expected, meaning there is good coaching, just tough scheduling

You do know that UMass had the top QB in yards per game and tds, top 2 of 3 RBs and 2 top wrs to go with a young and upcoming TE on offense right? UMass scored point for point with Mich as well.

[bkrownd]

UMass in the MAC makes no sense.

But the more I think about it, something else makes a lot of sense: UMass to the Big 10++

[KAUMASS]

MAC officials visited UMass yesterday......

http://www.gazettenet.com/2010/12/15/mac-officials-visit-umass-invitation-may-follow

[bkrownd]

There's nothing wrong in dreaming big, even if it isn't realistic. xcoolx

The Big 10++ wouldn't want a team in New England? I'd think their TV marketing people would love it. The TV contract would transform the athletic department. UMass would instantly leap WAY over Boston College and Connecticut as the region's Big Program and Big Campus. The university would receive a huge benefit academically and in exposure. It's about the only thing that would justify playing games at Foxboro until a new stadium can go up on campus.

The MAC? That move sounds completely directionless. ....I hate to think of what the next couple of decades could be like if that happens.

[Jackman]

"You can't get there from here."

The only places to go directly from FCS are the MAC, WAC or Sun Belt. Invitations from higher profile conferences don't happen. UConn and Villanova don't count, they were already all-sports members of the Big East.

[NoCoDanny]

What's the stadium situation like? I'm sure it's covered in this thread but at 35 pages I don't have the time to read it all, sorry.

[BlueHenSinfonian]

What's the stadium situation like? I'm sure it's covered in this thread but at 35 pages I don't have the time to read it all, sorry.

UMass's campus stadium, McGuirk, is pretty nice compared to most FCS fields, and near the top of the CAA. It holds 17,000, so it could probably use a little expansion and modernization for FBS duty. Supposedly they are going to be playing some games at Gillette (Patriots field) if they move though.

[DNewms43]

Any update on this?

[KAUMASS]

The only thing confirmed is that MAC officials have been to Amherst twice. Everything else is heresay from now on... Apparently, the jist of the deal is that the MAC is waiting on Temple to decide if it is staying in the MAC. If Temple stays, then they will invite UMass. Temple is contracted with the MAC through 2012. The MAC would like a decision from Temple asap, they were supposed to let them know by JAN 1, which didn't happen. Apparently, Temple is waiting on 'Nova's decision and also whether or not Central Florida gets a BE invite, or if Temple gets an invite as well. Temple is apparently looking into C-USA if they are not invited to the BE. If Central FL goes to the BE, there has been talk that C-USA will invite UMass and Temple. I don't see Temple going to the BE. I would think we will know what's going on by late winter/early spring. The only thing I know for sure is that who's is on first, what's on second, I don't know's on third. Tomorrow is pitching and today is catching.

[tractorapp]

I like the way that sounds. Hopefully, App would be in the mix for a reformulated C-USA too. I would love to be in with Temple, UMASS, ECU, Marshall, UAB, So Miss, Memphis, Tulane, Delaware, JMU, Georgia State, and App. Great TV markets, good mix of strong football and strong basketball schools. Split into northern and southern divisions to help control travel costs. What's not to like?

[nwFL Griz]

I like the way that sounds. Hopefully, App would be in the mix for a reformulated C-USA too. I would love to be in with Temple, UMASS, ECU, Marshall, UAB, So Miss, Memphis, Tulane, Delaware, JMU, Georgia State, and App. Great TV markets, good mix of strong football and strong basketball schools. Split into northern and southern divisions to help control travel costs. What's not to like?

So what happens to SMU, Rice, Houston, Tulane, Tulsa and UTEP in your scenario? Surely you don't think CUSA would just kick them out in favor of JMU, GaSt, Delaware and App?

[txstatebobcat]

Some of you who are presuming that the MAC as presently constituted is the final destination seems a bit bizarre.

I see this as part of a much bigger process for Massachusetts and the MAC. The college football landscape is shifting. Programs have to decide how they wish to evolve or devolve as the case may be. For example, I doubt that the MAC will stop after it secures UMASS. There appears to be a strategy by the MAC to grow. I would presume that more FCS schools will likely be invited to the MAC and some or all of those schools will likely accept those invitations. Also I am not sure that other fans fully appreciate the new doors this could open for UMass football in terms of TV coverage, improved OOC revenue regional rivalry opponents like Syracuse, BC, ARMY, NAVY, uconn etc. - its a big deal and there are alot of highly positive opportunities for Massachusetts if they pull this off.

I agree completely. Like wise the WAC is not a final destination for TxSt, but rather a means to an end.

[DNewms43]

The only thing confirmed is that MAC officials have been to Amherst twice. Everything else is heresay from now on... Apparently, the jist of the deal is that the MAC is waiting on Temple to decide if it is staying in the MAC. If Temple stays, then they will invite UMass. Temple is contracted with the MAC through 2012. The MAC would like a decision from Temple asap, they were supposed to let them know by JAN 1, which didn't happen. Apparently, Temple is waiting on 'Nova's decision and also whether or not Central Florida gets a BE invite, or if Temple gets an invite as well. Temple is apparently looking into C-USA if they are not invited to the BE. If Central FL goes to the BE, there has been talk that C-USA will invite UMass and Temple. I don't see Temple going to the BE. I would think we will know what's going on by late winter/early spring. The only thing I know for sure is that who's is on first, what's on second, I don't know's on third. Tomorrow is pitching and today is catching.

Alright thanks! Do you know if these few months more will postpone the move up a year because they won't have time to schedule their provisional schedule?

[KAUMASS]

Alright thanks! Do you know if these few months more will postpone the move up a year because they won't have time to schedule their provisional schedule?

No, it will not. They just need to announce before June (NCAA deadline for making the move for the 2012 season). UMass would want to announce asap as it well help in it's transitional scheduling for 2012 and full membership and the MAC schedule for 2013. If they do make the move, the 2011 schedule was still be a CAA schedule and maybe try to pick up another FBS game for the 12th game to pick up some more $. UMass will be ineligible for any playoffs or the CAA championship for 2011 season.

[tractorapp]

So what happens to SMU, Rice, Houston, Tulane, Tulsa and UTEP in your scenario? Surely you don't think CUSA would just kick them out in favor of JMU, GaSt, Delaware and App?

My understanding is C-USA will probably be splitting up with the western schools joining together and forming a new Southwest Conference. I heard on heare that Rice owns the trademark to the name "Southwest Conference+ How does this sound:

Rice
Houston
SMU
Tulsa
UTEP
Tulane
New Mexico St.
Tulsa
La Tech
UT Arlington
Texas St.
North Texas

Lots of rivalries, reduced travel cost for non-revenue sports, sounds good to me. If I was a SMU fan, I would much rather play Texas St. or North Texas than Marshall or ECU.

[nwFL Griz]

My understanding is C-USA will probably be splitting up with the western schools joining together and forming a new Southwest Conference. I heard on heare that Rice owns the trademark to the name "Southwest Conference+ How does this sound:

Rice
Houston
SMU
Tulsa
UTEP
Tulane
New Mexico St.
Tulsa
La Tech
UT Arlington
Texas St.
North Texas

Lots of rivalries, reduced travel cost for non-revenue sports, sounds good to me. If I was a SMU fan, I would much rather play Texas St. or North Texas than Marshall or ECU.

This, coupled with your other idea, makes for some interesting conferences. I like it.

[Sly Fox]

Uh, tractorapp. If UH is left with that mess of a league then they will have made some serious missteps. But I can tell you that it is true that Rice does indeed hold the trademark on the SWC. And there would be great rejoicing in places like Rice Village & Highland Park if such a league were to be assembled. I never thought it could happen but it is not as crazy as it was just a couple of years ago.

[tractorapp]

Uh, tractorapp. If UH is left with that mess of a league then they will have made some serious missteps. But I can tell you that it is true that Rice does indeed hold the trademark on the SWC. And there would be great rejoicing in places like Rice Village & Highland Park if such a league were to be assembled. I never thought it could happen but it is not as crazy as it was just a couple of years ago.

How big is UH and is it that much higher on the pecking order than Rice, SMU, etc? I don't really know. I remember UH had awesome basketball back in the '80s and a few good years of football.

Also, I would like to see Liberty in a FBS eastern conference like the one I described earlier. I think it is a real shame we have not played you guys on a regular basis lately. As much as I hate to say it, it is probably because of political correctness on our part.

[superman7515]

The trademark for Southwest Conference is owned by Bradley Parrott of San Antonio, TX.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
( Use the "Back" button of the Internet Browser to return to TESS)
Word Mark SOUTHWEST CONFERENCE
Goods and Services IC 041. US 100 101 107. G & S: IC 041. US 107. G and S: conducting and sponsoring college athletic competitions and activities rendered live and through the media of radio and television
Standard Characters Claimed
Mark Drawing Code (4) STANDARD CHARACTER MARK
Serial Number 85059585
Filing Date June 10, 2010
Current Filing Basis 1B
Original Filing Basis 1B
Owner (APPLICANT) Parrott, Bradley D. INDIVIDUAL UNITED STATES 22250 Estate View San Antonio TEXAS 78260
Type of Mark SERVICE MARK
Register PRINCIPAL
Live/Dead Indicator LIVE

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The originial conference trademark died in October, 2006.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
( Use the "Back" button of the Internet Browser to return to TESS)

Typed Drawing


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Word Mark SOUTHWEST CONFERENCE
Goods and Services (CANCELLED) IC 041. US 107. G & S: ENTERTAINMENT SERVICES - NAMELY, CONDUCTING AND SPONSORING COLLEGE ATHLETIC COMPETITIONS AND ACTIVITIES WHICH ARE PERFORMED LIVE AND THROUGH THE MEDIA OF RADIO AND TELEVISION. FIRST USE: 19400000. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19400000
Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING
Serial Number 73540933
Filing Date June 3, 1985
Current Filing Basis 1A
Original Filing Basis 1A
Published for Opposition October 15, 1985
Registration Number 1377645
Registration Date January 7, 1986
Owner (REGISTRANT) SOUTHWEST ATHLETIC CONFERENCE UNINC. ASSOCIATION TEXAS SUITE 444 1300 WEST MOCKINGBIRD LANE DALLAS TEXAS 75247
Assignment Recorded ASSIGNMENT RECORDED
Attorney of Record WILLIAM D. RAMAN
Disclaimer NO CLAIM IS MADE TO THE EXCLUSIVE RIGHT TO USE "CONFERENCE" APART FROM THE MARK AS SHOWN
Type of Mark SERVICE MARK
Register PRINCIPAL
Affidavit Text SECT 15. SECT 8 (6-YR).
Live/Dead Indicator DEAD
Cancellation Date October 14, 2006

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


And the trademark on the old logo of SWC with the outline of Texas died in 2004.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
( Use the "Back" button of the Internet Browser to return to TESS)

Typed Drawing


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Word Mark SOUTHWEST CONFERENCE
Goods and Services (CANCELLED) IC 018. US 001 002 003 022 041. G & S: all-purpose athletic bags, backpacks and fanny packs. FIRST USE: 19630000. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19630000
(CANCELLED) IC 025. US 022 039. G & S: clothing apparel, namely, shirts, shorts, jackets and hats. FIRST USE: 19630000. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19630000

(CANCELLED) IC 028. US 022 023 038 050. G & S: sporting goods, namely, baseballs, baseball bats, basketballs, soccer balls and footballs. FIRST USE: 19630000. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19630000

Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING
Serial Number 75053994
Filing Date February 6, 1996
Current Filing Basis 1A
Original Filing Basis 1B
Published for Opposition March 18, 1997
Registration Number 2068959
Registration Date June 10, 1997
Owner (REGISTRANT) Southwest Conference NON-PROFIT CORPORATION TEXAS 1300 West Mockingbird Lane, Suite 444 Dallas TEXAS 75247
Assignment Recorded ASSIGNMENT RECORDED
Attorney of Record JEFFREY M. BECKER
Prior Registrations 1377645;1388612;1829649
Disclaimer NO CLAIM IS MADE TO THE EXCLUSIVE RIGHT TO USE "CONFERENCE" APART FROM THE MARK AS SHOWN
Type of Mark TRADEMARK
Register PRINCIPAL
Live/Dead Indicator DEAD
Cancellation Date March 13, 2004

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
( Use the "Back" button of the Internet Browser to return to TESS)
Word Mark SOUTHWEST CONFERENCE SWC
Goods and Services (CANCELLED) IC 018. US 001 002 003 022 041. G & S: all-purpose athletic bags, backpacks and fanny packs. FIRST USE: 19920901. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19920901
(CANCELLED) IC 025. US 022 039. G & S: clothing apparel, namely, shirts, shorts, jackets and hats. FIRST USE: 19920901. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19920901

(CANCELLED) IC 028. US 022 023 038 050. G & S: sporting goods, namely, baseballs, baseball bats, basketballs, soccer balls and footballs. FIRST USE: 19920901. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19920901

Mark Drawing Code (3) DESIGN PLUS WORDS, LETTERS, AND/OR NUMBERS
Design Search Code 01.17.11 - Maps of states of the United States, excluding Texas
26.11.08 - Rectangles comprised of letters, numerals or punctuation and letters, numerals or punctuation forming the perimeter of a rectangle or bordering the perimeter of a rectangle.
27.03.01 - Geometric figures forming letters, numerals or punctuation
Serial Number 75054752
Filing Date February 6, 1996
Current Filing Basis 1A
Original Filing Basis 1B
Published for Opposition February 25, 1997
Registration Number 2062846
Registration Date May 20, 1997
Owner (REGISTRANT) Southwest Conference NON-PROFIT CORPORATION TEXAS 1300 West Mockingbird Lane, Suite 444 Dallas TEXAS 75247
Assignment Recorded ASSIGNMENT RECORDED
Attorney of Record JEFFREY M. BECKER
Prior Registrations 1377645;1388612;1829649
Disclaimer NO CLAIM IS MADE TO THE EXCLUSIVE RIGHT TO USE "CONFERENCE" APART FROM THE MARK AS SHOWN
Type of Mark TRADEMARK
Register PRINCIPAL
Live/Dead Indicator DEAD
Cancellation Date February 21, 2004

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Minutemen429]

UMass has the potential to add a huge market to the MAC or in a perfect world the Big East. Boston College may be the big athletic school in the area, but its enrollment isn't huge and the Boston Metro area by no means embraces the team as their own. When UMass was in the Cal years in basketball the school was huge news in the Boston Globe and Boston Herald. There are over 200,000 UMass grads living in Greater Boston, plus a lot in Worcester and Springfield areas. I went to UMass so I'm obviously bias, but I think the opportunity in the Boston market is there because BC has been around for ever and they don't pull ratings on UPN or whatever channel they are on, and for attendence 40,000 a game is acceptable but not commanding a market. And obviously it could just be Boston will never be a a college football market, but I honestly think if the flagship campus was in Framingham or somewhere else close to Boston it would be better funded academically and athleticlly, not have had to go through hoops to get a law school at a different smaller campus at Dartmouth (thanks Suffok U politicians) and attendendence at basketball and football would be better

[Dane96]

Wow...ummmm...Boston isn't a college sports town unless the words used to describe that sport include "hockey". In the 13 years I have lived in Boston...I don't think UMASS has ever been billed much in the sports news. I hate BC, but come on man. They are not on UPN...they get a ton of sports on TV.

And 200,000 UMASS grads in the Greater Boston area? Are you including the WORLD in the "Greater Boston area"? UMASS has 220,000 living alumni world-wide my friend.

I'm not even going to get into the funding portion of your statement because the concepts are quirky and uninformed at best. As for Suffolk U politicians stepping in...you should get your facts straight; the head of legal for UMASS is a Suffolk Law alum fighting for a public law school. Suffolk Law, whom I sit on multiple committees as an alumnus, has been supportive of a state law school in the hopes that it actually could reduce the size of their program for academic ranking reasons. Right now, they feel saddled with being the Cardozo/St. John's/Brooklyn Law of the Commonwealth.

Love the enthusiasm...but the facts don't back up the statements...and are circular at best.

[Jackman]

BC is most certainly on UPN, or rather the former UPN affiliate that has gone independent since the failure of that network. I don't know what exact percentage of BC programming ends up on there, but that's where it is most of the time when I spot it while skimming through the channel guide, packed in between wall-to-wall reruns of Frasier and Judge Judy. Granted, that would be a good deal for a brand new MAC program. Doesn't look so good for a BCS program.

220k alums is the correct number for Massachusetts (not Boston specifically). The global number is closer to 340k. We have a disproportionately high percentage of in-state students (80%, compared to around 50% for UNH and URI), and they generally remain in-state.

Suffolk was not the least bit supportive on any of the multiple occasions UMass tried to get the law school approved. They are now making lemonade. As the owner of a Suffolk Law degree, I wish them luck. They have a great facility in an outstanding location. UMass is definitely beaten there. But once the new school is accredited, it's going to be hard to justify the gap in tuition rates. The best thing Suffolk has going for it is its network, which is vastly superior to other schools in the same tier, at least within Massachusetts. If they come out of this stronger, it will be through the power of the thousands upon thousands of lawyer grads they churned out. The year I graduated, they rented Boston Garden to hold the ceremony. UMass doesn't even hold its undergrad ceremonies in a building that large, nevermind the 240 enrollment law school.