TCU to join Big East and villinova to get invite

[techstate]

according to espn, TCU will join the big east in all sports and Villinova gets the invite for football.

http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/ncf/news/story?id=5862368

[ElonAlum]

And the Dominoes start to fall again.

I wonder if MWC raids the last of the WAC or it just stays put??

[Dane96]

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/college/football/tcu_to_join_big_east_for_all_sports_plgtBchvgrn5hM 6VigvoPM

'Nova has had the invite. Most, however, believe they will not accept and UCF will get an all sport invite.

Either way...the Big East has made a MAJOR splash...and the football league just got much stronger. Recruiting in Texas will be a coup for the BE schools.

[superman7515]

Yeah, Villanova got an invite months ago. And as they've stated numerous times on ESPN, SI.com, etc... just like the CAA teams that don't play football, there is an open invite to Villanova, Georgetown, or any conference teams that start football to play in the Big East.

[Professor Chaos]

Does this reignite talk of the Big East splitting into two non-football conferences with one football conference? 17 basketball teams in a conference is excessive. I'd have to think that it would be in the best interest of the schools to split into two conferences and have some sort of scheduling alliance between them to preserve historical rivalries if the conference is halved.

[theasushow]

Jeez....a team in Fort Worth, Texas going to the BIG EAST. COME ON MAN!

[superman7515]

There's already a team in Dallas playing in the NFC East. Haha

[DFW HOYA]

Yeah, Villanova got an invite months ago. And as they've stated numerous times on ESPN, SI.com, etc... just like the CAA teams that don't play football, there is an open invite to Villanova, Georgetown, or any conference teams that start football to play in the Big East.

Mike Tranghese made it clear a few years ago that Georgetown does not have an invite. Depending on what the PL does in two weeks, it may be on the lookout for a new home, anyway.

[bluehenbillk]

Does this reignite talk of the Big East splitting into two non-football conferences with one football conference? 17 basketball teams in a conference is excessive. I'd have to think that it would be in the best interest of the schools to split into two conferences and have some sort of scheduling alliance between them to preserve historical rivalries if the conference is halved.


I'd have to think 17 hoops teams means in the next few years that they'd split. 17 hoops teams sharing hoops revenue doesn't make a lot of financial sense....

[Bossanova]

Villanova is considering this move because if there is a Big East split they do not want basketball to fall out of the Big East and be relegated to a lesser basketball league. BCS football is the engine that drives college athletics.

This move is being considered to save the chance to win a national championship in basketball, not football.

If Villanova was guaranteed that the landscape of college athletics would not change, they would be happy to stay in FCS football and continue Big East in all other sports. But, as we all know, this is not going to happen. The only constant is change.

My two cents, for what it is worth, is that Villanova will not make the move, although, the majority of alumni , I do believe, want to move up. Although the Board of Trustees is probably 50-50 on the move, the university President is against the move and I think he will sway enough votes to the negative. I expect the vote to come out in early spring.

[theasushow]

not sure if Villanova's facilities/ stadium are ready to host teams like West Virginia, Louisville, Pitt., etc.....

[Dane96]

The problem, simply put, for Villanova is MONEY. There have been zero big time donations for this move according to my source. A few little (in the scheme of total costs for the move) donations in the 250k range...but no big donations to put them over the top. This move would cost a lot of money with increased coaching salaries, facilities, recruiting budgets, Title IX concerns, renting of a stadium....etc.

[DFW HOYA]

I'd have to think 17 hoops teams means in the next few years that they'd split. 17 hoops teams sharing hoops revenue doesn't make a lot of financial sense....

As opposed to 16? It just puts pressure on a couple of underperforming schools to step it up.

[NovaWildcat]

The problem, simply put, for Villanova is MONEY. There have been zero big time donations for this move according to my source. A few little (in the scheme of total costs for the move) donations in the 250k range...but no big donations to put them over the top. This move would cost a lot of money with increased coaching salaries, facilities, recruiting budgets, Title IX concerns, renting of a stadium....etc.

1. Your source is flawed. We have some major big time donations lined up, and many of those who have contributed greatly to the basketball program in recent history. Wont get into specifics but it's not too hard to figure out who if you're familiar with Villanova athletics and it's recent improvements.

2. The problem isn't money. It's the administration. They say that if it makes financial sense the move will be made. That's all talk to provide an excuse if the move isn't made. The drawback are those who do not want to change the "landscape" of Villanova. A move like this has so many reporcussions far beyond the athletic department and dollars and cents. That is the reason this is even still going on. It doesn't take this long to figure out the finances of the situation -- rest assured that has already been resolved. It's the concept of change that is holding this up.

3. NONE OF THIS IS NEWS. It was stated a while back that TCU got the invite. We all knew they were going to accept - that move is more obvious than Villanova's. And Villanova has had the BE invite for a while.

[DFW HOYA]

3. NONE OF THIS IS NEWS. It was stated a while back that TCU got the invite. We all knew they were going to accept - that move is more obvious than Villanova's. And Villanova has had the BE invite for a while.

From a Villanova perspective, why does Nova get a fast track for an invite but the league office never wanted Georgetown?

[NovaWildcat]

From a Villanova perspective, why does Nova get a fast track for an invite but the league office never wanted Georgetown?

I have no idea. I mentioned to you before how I don't quite understand Gtown's "football philosophy." Maybe the Big East feels the same way?

Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that we already have a program in place with 60+ scholarships...so adding 20 is less of a hurdle than 80. Being competitive probably won't be the issue, I think most people agree on that -- with Gtown it could be a different story.

Or maybe it's because we've won a Basketball title more recently than you...just kidding, in all seriousness I have no definitive answer to that question. I just know that we've had the invite (and publically) for a while now.

[Dane96]

1. Your source is flawed. We have some major big time donations lined up, and many of those who have contributed greatly to the basketball program in recent history. Wont get into specifics but it's not too hard to figure out who if you're familiar with Villanova athletics and it's recent improvements.

2. The problem isn't money. It's the administration. They say that if it makes financial sense the move will be made. That's all talk to provide an excuse if the move isn't made. The drawback are those who do not want to change the "landscape" of Villanova. A move like this has so many reporcussions far beyond the athletic department and dollars and cents. That is the reason this is even still going on. It doesn't take this long to figure out the finances of the situation -- rest assured that has already been resolved. It's the concept of change that is holding this up.

3. NONE OF THIS IS NEWS. It was stated a while back that TCU got the invite. We all knew they were going to accept - that move is more obvious than Villanova's. And Villanova has had the BE invite for a while.

I will say with 100% certainty, my source is NOT flawed. In fact, I checked up after hearing about it from a different source (a poster on this board) with people I know in the hoops dept. Jay Wright is not happy at all...and they have called all kinds of Wall Street alumni and others, such as pro hoop players, to help fund this. Fact is, no one wants to be the "first mega" donor. Apparently, everyone is waiting for the other donor shoe to drop before they step up.

The costs to move up are staggering (without a stadium its even more) and the bottom line is...they dont even have close to the numbers they need...not even a speck.

That said, all this is moot now that the BE is serious on the expansion with the addition of TCU. Maybe this force VU to spend dough they currently not have and hope for the donations later. This worked at Boston College...so I guess in the end you are right, it is up to the administration to **** or get off the pot.

But to say the money is there is not accurate. This is a move that will cost at least 100 million dollars...if not more.

[NovaWildcat]

our AD has gone on record saying the move is about $30 million in start up costs for Year 1. This includes increased title IX figures, stadium rent and all the extra costs that going into Big East football and extra players. This is not a startup football program, so there is some infrastructure in place. Please don't state arbitrary figures.

If we didn't have close to the numbers we needed, this would still not be a discussion and the answer would be NO. Rest assured, in today's financial climate, Villanova is not going to risk bankrupting the University.

Those with knowledge of the administration know that the issue at hand is the philosophy of the University. Many of the powers-that-be are old school conservative types who do not think Villanova needs an emphasis on athletics. This group includes the President of the University, in all liklihood. Ultimately (and thank god) this is the Board of Trustees decision and not those of key administrators.

[Dane96]

I am not stating arbitrary figures. You are quoting one year figures. Let's say they get flushed with $30mm in cash. Where is the operating dough for the next 10 years coming from. With TCU now on board, the BE schools don't have to rush to fund VU's move up right now.

Believe me, I have supported the move up for Villanova...however they have dragged their feet and the alumni aren't pressuring the school through their pockets enough for the move to make senese.

Your logic is not sound: if the money was there...this would be done. Why wouldnt 'Nova move up if the money is there. They are setting themselves up to be less of a player in the BE, not more. However, it makes MORE sense to delay the decision until they overturn every rock that has $$$. And let's not be dramatic: moving up wouldnt bankrupt VU.

Again, I think this may be exactly what 'Nova needs to have donors step up; TCU coming on board could be a blessing for 'Nova if they utilize it properly.

[TypicalTribe]

16 teams is already too many teams for a conference and the scheduling machinations and imbalances every year are ridiculous. Adding any more teams only magnifies the problem. League should clearly split.

Basketball schools:

St. John's
Seton Hall
Providence
DePaul
Villanova
Georgetown
Marquette


I think the best scenario for the BE is to take the current 8 football schools, add TCU and let Nova, G'town and ND play in a 12 team Bball conference.

Other five teams should break off and try to add some combination of Xavier, Dayton, Temple, UMass or even a Butler and put together a solid regional basketball conference.

[NovaWildcat]

Why wouldnt 'Nova move up if the money is there. They are setting themselves up to be less of a player in the BE, not more. However, it makes MORE sense to delay the decision until they overturn every rock that has $$$. And let's not be dramatic: moving up wouldnt bankrupt VU.


That's the point!!! Nova is balking at the decision regardless of money. Those who have attended Villanova and know its key administrators know that the PHILOSOPHY and MINDSET is small-time and does not point towards athletics. The reason there is such a hurdle is that such an obvious decision is being met with resistance.

I didn't say moving up would bankrupt VU. I said that if we're so far away financially as you think, a move purely based on loans and credit could potentially be devastating.

$30mm is Year 1. Each suquential year would provide no worse revenue minus expenses than our current cash drain that is CAA football, where only expenses exist with hardly any revenue.

[henfan]

$30mm is Year 1. Each suquential year would provide no worse revenue minus expenses than our current cash drain that is CAA football, where only expenses exist with hardly any revenue.

Clarification. CAA FB is not an inherent cash drain but rather red ink exists at VU because they completely lack fan support, the school doesn't market the program or otherwise create a welcoming FB environment. CAA FB is not a cash drain at most schools where ticket buyers pay for their tickets and where schools actually support the existence of college FB on campus.

That's the big sell that BEC proponents have to make to the VU admin. Where are the fans and where is the revenue going to come from when fans couldn't even support a 'cost containment' D-I program?xsmhx

[ur2k]

From a Villanova perspective, why does Nova get a fast track for an invite but the league office never wanted Georgetown?

How about both of you just say screw the Big East and join us in the a10 for some b-ball? We can get rid of Fordham and LaSalle.

xprayx

[Eaglesrus]

Jeez....a team in Fort Worth, Texas going to the BIG EAST. COME ON MAN!

Yeah, my first thought was "I wonder if they'll change the name of the conference?"

[Dane96]

That's the point!!! Nova is balking at the decision regardless of money. Those who have attended Villanova and know its key administrators know that the PHILOSOPHY and MINDSET is small-time and does not point towards athletics. The reason there is such a hurdle is that such an obvious decision is being met with resistance.

I didn't say moving up would bankrupt VU. I said that if we're so far away financially as you think, a move purely based on loans and credit could potentially be devastating.

$30mm is Year 1. Each suquential year would provide no worse revenue minus expenses than our current cash drain that is CAA football, where only expenses exist with hardly any revenue.

Actually, you used the word bankrupt. You trust your sources, I will trust mine. Let's call it a day. As for costs...its clear you are not getting the full picture. If you think your revenue will match expenses in each sequential year AFTER year 1...you are obviously thinking 'Nova will be an instant splash. I suggest calling fans of Boston College to see how they liked their tailgating expenses going anywhere from 5,000 (non-guarantee spot) to 15,000 plus per year. Even with those staggering numbers...BC isn't flying high with cash. It costs a ton more to run a proper FBS program in a BCS conference than a top program in an FCS conference. Increased marketing, recruiting, infrastructure, etc. costs.

[NovaWildcat]

henfan, correct. Villanova's current football model is a cash drain. We have national recruiting efforts, long tenured coaches, excellent player perks and bring in little to no revenue. The CAA is not necessarily a cash drain in itself.

[Go...gate]

I don't envy VU doing this in the throes of an historic economic downturn, but maybe I'm too conservative to begin with....

[NovaWildcat]

Dane96, my point was to your sources take on Villanova's finances. IF we are far off like you said, this would be a no-brainer "no" because we don't want to put the school in a troubled state. Bankruptcy was a hyperbole to make that point. I know our school isn't going bankrupt regardless of what occurs.

Nova might not be an instant splash, and is almost certain to still lose money, but its year to year deficit could be managable. Considering we lose $3-5mm per year now, that's fairly obvious.

As long as the costs are managable (which is clearly where our sources differ) this move needs to made. As everyone involved is willing to accept, this overall decision isn't even about football, it's about Villanova basketball.

[henfan]

Yeah, my first thought was "I wonder if they'll change the name of the conference?"

Nope. A lot of conferences employ titles that go outside the original description of the conference name- Atlantic 10, Sun Belt, Big South, etc.

[Dane96]

This isn't a no-brainer no because of the potential that 'Nova could be left out of the cold because indeed the BE may breakup. Again, that is why they are turning over every financial stone. Indeed, if this is about saving 'Nova's hoop relevance (if you subscribe to that theory, as many do) AND the money was there...then this is a done deal already. Put it this way, the BE has just forced 'Nova's hand by not keeping the status quo.

Now, to give some real insight on finances...let's use Boston College as an example. Forget flight costs because they are negligble for the 5 trips or so a year, max.

Boston College spent $17.96 million on football last year. Villanova spent $5.22 million on football.
Boston College loses about $2 million on football last year...and they OWN their own place and keep all the revenues.

Boston College also spent $18.82 million on "non-gender/non-sport specific" expenses. Villanova spent $4.42 million on the same. This category is the "overarching" category of expenses that groups in marketing, rentals, etc. Much of this category is attributed to football at BCS schools.

Overall, Boston College's athletic budget is about $39 million more a year than 'Nova.

My point, which has been clear from the start, is that money does not currently exist in the form of donations. It isnt a one time $30mm start up...it is much much more than that. My point, which is clear from the start is that 'Nova is doing all it can--including holding off on saying no--to make this work because of the potential for a BE split. The only thing keeping this in the maybe column is the relevance aspect: if 'Nova doesn't move...what happens to its relevance in the hoops world.

[Eaglesrus]

Nope. A lot of conferences employ titles that go outside the original description of the conference name- Atlantic 10, Sun Belt, Big South, etc.

Yeah, I know, I guess the ironic tone didn't come through.

[DFW HOYA]

Nope. A lot of conferences employ titles that go outside the original description of the conference name- Atlantic 10, Sun Belt, Big South, etc.

Just like the Western Conference/Big Nine...um, Big Ten:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Ten#History

[NovaWildcat]

This isn't a no-brainer no because of the potential that 'Nova could be left out of the cold because indeed the BE may breakup. Again, that is why they are turning over every financial stone. Indeed, if this is about saving 'Nova's hoop relevance (if you subscribe to that theory, as many do) AND the money was there...then this is a done deal already. Put it this way, the BE has just forced 'Nova's hand by not keeping the status quo.

Now, to give some real insight on finances...let's use Boston College as an example. Forget flight costs because they are negligble for the 5 trips or so a year, max.

Boston College spent $17.96 million on football last year. Villanova spent $5.22 million on football.
Boston College loses about $2 million on football last year...and they OWN their own place and keep all the revenues.

Boston College also spent $18.82 million on "non-gender/non-sport specific" expenses. Villanova spent $4.42 million on the same. This category is the "overarching" category of expenses that groups in marketing, rentals, etc. Much of this category is attributed to football at BCS schools.

Overall, Boston College's athletic budget is about $39 million more a year than 'Nova.

My point, which has been clear from the start, is that money does not currently exist in the form of donations. It isnt a one time $30mm start up...it is much much more than that. My point, which is clear from the start is that 'Nova is doing all it can--including holding off on saying no--to make this work because of the potential for a BE split. The only thing keeping this in the maybe column is the relevance aspect: if 'Nova doesn't move...what happens to its relevance in the hoops world.

Good numbers and does show the financial impact of such a move.

But rest assured, to understand why this is taking so long you also need to understand VU administration. There is an old school conservative, non-athletic philosophy that is held by many at Villanova. This is undoubtedly holding the school back, and has for a long time. It's the same reason why prior to six years ago, Villanova didn't even have a tangible fund-raising campaign in place! (see low endowment) and the reason why our current football program has no support despite its on-field success. Villanova sports excel despite money and facilities, mostly because we have been lucky to have great coaches.

[Dane96]

I hear ya...and it must be as frustrating as **** for you guys. I know Jay is ready to blow a gasket. Look...this administration lack(ed) intuitiveness; they should have seen the BE expansion two years ago...and started making the push to alumni then...not now.

[Anovafan]

The real reason this is taking so long is that the BE has only offered Nova a spot for football, but the BE has yet to put a guaranteed number on the table (despite what I thought/heard back in August). The BE wants Nova to come back to them with a number, so the financial study continues. In the meantime, the BE makes a move to get TCU and I would guess doesn't have to offer them a dime to join. If Nova comes back to the BE with too big a number, I would guess the BE could easily tell them to go away.

[VUCats02]

Why would TCU announce this now? They are on the verge of possibly contending for a national championship this year (if Auburn or Oregon loses next week) and now they are thrown with this distraction for their program? Doesn't make much sense to me. Announce it after the bowl games.

[VUCats02]

Just the talk about it has been a distraction for us. Andy Talley admitted to this. That's why I do not like the timing of this announcement. It seems that we were just getting past all of the talk about moving to the big east and finally playing some good FCS football....Hopefully this doesn't recreate a distraction for the football team.

[VUCats02]

Without a formal invitation and acceptance by Villanova, I don't see TCU's decision being a distraction. Villanova is keeping the pending annoucement under serious wraps for that very reason. To me it's easy to tell.

True, but will the hype seriously die down by early January for TCU? This is one of TCU's biggest decision ever and they have to be thrilled about getting to be in an AQ conference. I don't think it will be a distraction for us, but for TCU, it might be, and I just don't like the timing if I'm a TCU fan because they have a legitamite chance to contend for a national title this year.

[glsjunior]

How much would stadium rental be for Nova? It cost us 900k to rent the Georgia Dome, but we made over a mil in revenue so it paid for itself really.

[aceinthehole]

This isn't a no-brainer no because of the potential that 'Nova could be left out of the cold because indeed the BE may breakup. Again, that is why they are turning over every financial stone. Indeed, if this is about saving 'Nova's hoop relevance (if you subscribe to that theory, as many do) AND the money was there...then this is a done deal already. Put it this way, the BE has just forced 'Nova's hand by not keeping the status quo.

Now, to give some real insight on finances...let's use Boston College as an example. Forget flight costs because they are negligble for the 5 trips or so a year, max.

Boston College spent $17.96 million on football last year. Villanova spent $5.22 million on football.
Boston College loses about $2 million on football last year...and they OWN their own place and keep all the revenues.

Boston College also spent $18.82 million on "non-gender/non-sport specific" expenses. Villanova spent $4.42 million on the same. This category is the "overarching" category of expenses that groups in marketing, rentals, etc. Much of this category is attributed to football at BCS schools.

Overall, Boston College's athletic budget is about $39 million more a year than 'Nova.

My point, which has been clear from the start, is that money does not currently exist in the form of donations. It isnt a one time $30mm start up...it is much much more than that. My point, which is clear from the start is that 'Nova is doing all it can--including holding off on saying no--to make this work because of the potential for a BE split. The only thing keeping this in the maybe column is the relevance aspect: if 'Nova doesn't move...what happens to its relevance in the hoops world.

Great post! I'm of the opinion that VU is considering this BECAUSE of basketball, but as you point out only if they can make the numbers work will they actually take the invite. Certainly the odds are against them (small enrolloment, low endowment, limited fundraising, pro-sports town, intra-city competition, etc), but we all find out soon enough because I assume they have to announce a decision either way by the end of January.

[Reign of Terrier]

Boise State=screwed over even more. There schedule has no one again

[jmufan]

16 teams is already too many teams for a conference and the scheduling machinations and imbalances every year are ridiculous. Adding any more teams only magnifies the problem. League should clearly split.

Basketball schools:

St. John's
Seton Hall
Providence
DePaul
Villanova
Georgetown
Marquette


I think the best scenario for the BE is to take the current 8 football schools, add TCU and let Nova, G'town and ND play in a 12 team Bball conference.

Other five teams should break off and try to add some combination of Xavier, Dayton, Temple, UMass or even a Butler and put together a solid regional basketball conference.

Who is to say that the other BE schools didn't approve this move and totally support TCU coming to the dance? Also lets say there is a split, who gets the AQ/BCS or would both conferences have it?

[Dane96]

One thing is for certain. Even though it may not seem like it when you look at how big the Big East is now, it is still far more wealthier than where Villanova is now, and the Big East coffers in football will be welcomed in Philly again (though not at Temple). The reason why I know Villanova has already accepted is because the Big East wanted them first. The Big East told Villanova if they declined then Temple would be coming back. No way Villanova was willing to give up large Big East football dollars to the other brother in the City of Brotherly Love. Not a chance. Villanova has accepted, and man, that is one smart administration over there at Villanova! They are playing the PR card very well! I have to hand it to them. Alot of people don't think Villanova will even consider the Big East, and that's what the Villanova admin wants everyone to believe at this point in time.

Vote for clueless post of the year.

You know VU accepted because they were invited first? Dude...get a clue. 'Nova was invited...but just about everyone associated on the inside of this program has heard of no such acceptance.

As a charter BE member...and successful FCS program...and the Philly market...of course they were going to be invited. Doesn't mean they have accepted.

Whether or not the VU poster and I agree on the funding part...we can agree that BOTH Of our inside sources have no such knowledge of acceptance.

Of course, we dont know what will happen...but if you think 'Nova is playing the PR card you are crazy. What do they have to gain? Zilch, nada, zippo. But they would piss off their brethren by delaying this.

[VUCats02]

One thing is for certain. Even though it may not seem like it when you look at how big the Big East is now, it is still far more wealthier than where Villanova is now, and the Big East coffers in football will be welcomed in Philly again (though not at Temple). The reason why I know Villanova has already accepted is because the Big East wanted them first. The Big East told Villanova if they declined then Temple would be coming back. No way Villanova was willing to give up large Big East football dollars to the other brother in the City of Brotherly Love. Not a chance. Villanova has accepted, and man, that is one smart administration over there at Villanova! They are playing the PR card very well! I have to hand it to them. Alot of people don't think Villanova will even consider the Big East, and that's what the Villanova admin wants everyone to believe at this point in time.

This is a pure guess by you and if Nova happens to accept, you will be ready to say "I told you so." C'mon man, get real. Nova has not yet decided what they will do.

[MplsBison]

As interesting as all this discussion is about what happens back east (sarcasm), I wonder what are the implications for the WAC.

MWC is back to nine all sports members, with Utah, BYU and TCU leaving (arguably their strongest three) and being replaced with Boise St, Nevada and Fresno. Boise St is obviously the strength in football, but Nevada has a nice program going both in football and bball. Fresno was a power in football in the mid 2000s..they need to get back to that form.

Now if MWC wants to get to 10 in all sports, Utah State would seem the easiest - assuming no Texas schools will join the conference. Hawaii and San Jose St could both join the Big West for all sports except football and then become the 11th and 12th football members of the MWC.

That leaves NM St free to join UTEP in CUSA if Houston or UCF joins the Big West.


That leaves Idaho, UTSA and Texas St as being somewhat screwed. Idaho always has the Big Sky as a fallback.

[green and gold]

As interesting as all this discussion is about what happens back east (sarcasm), I wonder what are the implications for the WAC.

MWC is back to nine all sports members, with Utah, BYU and TCU leaving (arguably their strongest three) and being replaced with Boise St, Nevada and Fresno. Boise St is obviously the strength in football, but Nevada has a nice program going both in football and bball. Fresno was a power in football in the mid 2000s..they need to get back to that form.

Now if MWC wants to get to 10 in all sports, Utah State would seem the easiest - assuming no Texas schools will join the conference. Hawaii and San Jose St could both join the Big West for all sports except football and then become the 11th and 12th football members of the MWC.

That leaves NM St free to join UTEP in CUSA if Houston or UCF joins the Big West.


That leaves Idaho, UTSA and Texas St as being somewhat screwed. Idaho always has the Big Sky as a fallback.
Nevada just beat Boise State last week so yes Boise will be a power but Nevada will be just as good if not better.

[TheValleyRaider]

True, but will the hype seriously die down by early January for TCU? This is one of TCU's biggest decision ever and they have to be thrilled about getting to be in an AQ conference. I don't think it will be a distraction for us, but for TCU, it might be, and I just don't like the timing if I'm a TCU fan because they have a legitamite chance to contend for a national title this year.

This announcement has been in the works for months now, and has by my reckoning been an all-but-done deal for several weeks at least. The team has certainly been aware of the rumors and seems to have handled it just fine. At this point, it has no bearing on their season. If either Oregon or Auburn lose, TCU plays for the National Title. If not, TCU goes to the Rose Bowl. Next year will be a bit strange, but I am glad they're supposed to get Boise in FW....


As interesting as all this discussion is about what happens back east (sarcasm), I wonder what are the implications for the WAC.

MWC is back to nine all sports members, with Utah, BYU and TCU leaving (arguably their strongest three) and being replaced with Boise St, Nevada and Fresno. Boise St is obviously the strength in football, but Nevada has a nice program going both in football and bball. Fresno was a power in football in the mid 2000s..they need to get back to that form.

Now if MWC wants to get to 10 in all sports, Utah State would seem the easiest - assuming no Texas schools will join the conference. Hawaii and San Jose St could both join the Big West for all sports except football and then become the 11th and 12th football members of the MWC.

The MWC added Hawaii a couple of weeks ago, so for 2012, the conference looks like this:
Air Force
Boise State
Colorado State
Fresno State
Hawaii
Nevada
New Mexico
San Diego State
UNLV
Wyoming

It probably would not be a huge stretch to jump on schools like Houston and Utah State/SMU to go to 12 and get the conference title game, unless they're really content at 10. That's not a terrible FBS conference, arguably better than the current Big East (minus the whole BCS thing)

For the rest of the WAC, this is probably the beginning of the end unless they can somehow convince a few schools to jump up. Maybe CUSA turns into the island of misfit toys but it certainly seems dicey right now for Texas State and UTSA, along with the current WAC remnants

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Clarification. CAA FB is not an inherent cash drain but rather red ink exists at VU because they completely lack fan support, the school doesn't market the program or otherwise create a welcoming FB environment. CAA FB is not a cash drain at most schools where ticket buyers pay for their tickets and where schools actually support the existence of college FB on campus.

That's the big sell that BEC proponents have to make to the VU admin. Where are the fans and where is the revenue going to come from when fans couldn't even support a 'cost containment' D-I program?xsmhx

I seem to recall this was henfan and I have been arguing all along about VU - one of the few places where we agree, especially this weekend xsmiley_wix .

VU's "welcoming environment" for football is seriously hamstrung by Radnor township, for sure, but I was really surprised that their national-championship team didn't translate into any serious fan support. Heck, Lehigh's only an hour away from the Main Line, and the Wildcats brought only a small gathering of fans to the game. I remember remarking at the time to someone, "These guys want to be a Big East team, and they can't even bring 1,000 fans to Lehigh? This will never work."

I'm on the record as saying that the stadium issue is the gorilla in the room, and while there have been creative proposals to get around that the fact remains that they'd be paying rents to two stadiums, possibly three, which cannot be helpful to any bottom line - and the "crown jewel" venue, the Linc, is currently occupied by Temple of the MAC. If the Linc were open, this would be a no-brainer. If Randor Township were supportive of BCS football, it would also be a no-brainer. But these facts are tough to negotiate. It seems like the could be overcome with enough money - but that doesn't seem forthcoming, either.

If VU can honestly do it, I think they should. But the logistical problems seem to be very hard to surmount.

[henfan]

If VU can honestly do it, I think they should. But the logistical problems seem to be very hard to surmount.

You're right. We DO agree on these points.

[WestCoastAggie]

I seem to recall this was henfan and I have been arguing all along about VU - one of the few places where we agree, especially this weekend xsmiley_wix .

VU's "welcoming environment" for football is seriously hamstrung by Radnor township, for sure, but I was really surprised that their national-championship team didn't translate into any serious fan support. Heck, Lehigh's only an hour away from the Main Line, and the Wildcats brought only a small gathering of fans to the game. I remember remarking at the time to someone, "These guys want to be a Big East team, and they can't even bring 1,000 fans to Lehigh? This will never work."

I'm on the record as saying that the stadium issue is the gorilla in the room, and while there have been creative proposals to get around that the fact remains that they'd be paying rents to two stadiums, possibly three, which cannot be helpful to any bottom line - and the "crown jewel" venue, the Linc, is currently occupied by Temple of the MAC. If the Linc were open, this would be a no-brainer. If Randor Township were supportive of BCS football, it would also be a no-brainer. But these facts are tough to negotiate. It seems like the could be overcome with enough money - but that doesn't seem forthcoming, either.

If VU can honestly do it, I think they should. But the logistical problems seem to be very hard to surmount.

Can't VU just kick Temple out of the Linc and send them to UPenn's stadium or just rent out UPenn's stadium for the "Big" Games?

[superman7515]

Can't VU just kick Temple out of the Linc and send them to UPenn's stadium or just rent out UPenn's stadium for the "Big" Games?

Haha. No, they just renewed their lease for several more years with the Iggles.

[MplsBison]

This announcement has been in the works for months now, and has by my reckoning been an all-but-done deal for several weeks at least. The team has certainly been aware of the rumors and seems to have handled it just fine. At this point, it has no bearing on their season. If either Oregon or Auburn lose, TCU plays for the National Title. If not, TCU goes to the Rose Bowl. Next year will be a bit strange, but I am glad they're supposed to get Boise in FW....



The MWC added Hawaii a couple of weeks ago, so for 2012, the conference looks like this:
Air Force
Boise State
Colorado State
Fresno State
Hawaii
Nevada
New Mexico
San Diego State
UNLV
Wyoming

It probably would not be a huge stretch to jump on schools like Houston and Utah State/SMU to go to 12 and get the conference title game, unless they're really content at 10. That's not a terrible FBS conference, arguably better than the current Big East (minus the whole BCS thing)

For the rest of the WAC, this is probably the beginning of the end unless they can somehow convince a few schools to jump up. Maybe CUSA turns into the island of misfit toys but it certainly seems dicey right now for Texas State and UTSA, along with the current WAC remnants

Hawaii hasn't been officially added yet. The school made an announcement and then the invite has never come yet. They might've jumped the gun. I don't see MWC taking any Texas school. They are the Mountain West afterall, I see them sticking to the Mountain and West timezones. They have plenty to pick from.

[BearsCountry]

Can't VU just kick Temple out of the Linc and send them to UPenn's stadium or just rent out UPenn's stadium for the "Big" Games?

A private university kick out a public university in a state funded stadium. Yeah that would really happen.

[LeopardFan04]

Can't VU just kick Temple out of the Linc and send them to UPenn's stadium or just rent out UPenn's stadium for the "Big" Games?


Haha. No, they just renewed their lease for several more years with the Iggles.

Indeed. Temple and the Eagles have a 15 year deal that started in 2003.

[Catatonic]

I don't see MWC taking any Texas school. They are the Mountain West afterall, I see them sticking to the Mountain and West timezones. They have plenty to pick from.

The Big EAST just added TCU. The PACIFIC 10 now includes Utah and Colorado, which have no ocean frontage, unless you count Salt Lake. The Big 10 will soon have 12 members and no name change in sight. Logic and consistency be damned. Full speed ahead, Mountain West, Appalachian State and Georgia Southern are waiting for your call. :-)